John McCain on Character and Heroism

The Arizona senator and former POW tells us about some of the people he admires.

BY: Interview by Dena Ross

Continued from page 2

In your recent Newsweek piece on torture you say that abuse and interrogation can "only lead to faulty intelligence and undermining American values." Are there any situations where you would advocate torture?

John McCain on talking to God

It'd be a million to one. Physical torture doesn't work. If there were a case where somebody were caught with his finger on the trigger and he wanted to do something, then maybe that situation might warrant it. But it's so remote. You just cannot have a policy that allows for that kind of thing. Somehow the Israelis have an outright prohibition against torture. They don't do it under any circumstances. They face greater threats everyday than we do. So it's a straw man.

Most of the people in the book that you profiled as heroes weren't extremely divisive--except for Darwin. When you were writing the book were you worried at all about the political ramifications of being a Republican Christian who considers Darwin a hero?

John McCain recites the 23rd Psalm

No. [The book] really is intended for young people. If I crossed over into political ambitions when Mark and I were writing stories like this, I think it would be dramatically diminished. People always say, "He's a politician and he wants to run for president." The presidential campaign is three years away. We wanted to write this book at the suggestion of Random House because I believe and Mark believes that young people could find these stories useful and adults might do well by refreshing their memories. I wasn't worried about any criticism about that.

In an interview you did with the Arizona Daily Star, you said that you were a proponent of teaching intelligent design in schools. Do you find a contradiction there?

What I said was not "teaching," I said, people should be exposed to all theories and ideas. Marxism, I reject, but I find it appropriate in college courses of certain kinds. Give people a broad perspective.

John McCain on intelligent design

When I stand on the rim of the Grand Canyon. I know that it was the hand of God...only God could have created that magnificence. But at the same time, I think that Darwin's theories are valid, and I think that natural selection and survival of the fittest are clearly scientifically based. But I also believe that in time before time, that there was a divine hand in creation.

Frankly, I don't understand the controversy. I don't believe that the earth was created in seven days, and I know very few people who do. But I also believe that I don't know how you could have created some of the magnificent beauty that I have seen in this world without the hand of God.

I think that evolution should be taught. I think it's absolutely the most valid and scientifically based and proven conclusion that we can draw. But I respect the fact that some people believe in intelligent design and they should have their views vented also. But in my own personal opinion, I don't think they're contradictory.

So do you believe in both?

Well, if you're saying that intelligent design is the earth created in seven days, then no. But I do believe that time before time there was a divine hand that brought this magnificent world and human beings into it.

Of all the people you have profiled in the book, if you could sit down to dinner with one of them, who would it be?

Obviously that's a very tough question, but one of them-and this may surprise you-would be Leonardo da Vinci.

Why?

He was just so incredibly diverse. He was a genius in so many things. He had drawings of submarines-of airplanes! [He created] the "Mona Lisa," the most admired work of art in the world [and] "The Last Supper." I'm a student of history-but I don't know as much about that time. I would be very interested. Almost everyone [in the book] I would be privileged to be around.

My personal hero probably would be [Naval commander] Lord Nelson because of my Navy background. But maybe it's because I didn't know much about him when I first started looking into him and that I was fascinated by his multi-dimensions.

I found Joan of Arc to be a fascinating historical figure. I would be really interested to have a time machine and go back and watch that one. But most any of them I'd be honored to be around.

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