Watchwoman on the Wall

Watchwoman on the Wall


Homosexuality and the Bible–Twisting the Truth

posted by Donna Calvin

Biblical Christianity represents the greatest obstacle to the normalization of homosexuality. The reason for this is quite simple–the Bible emphatically condemns all forms of homosexual behavior. If homosexual advocates are to succeed, they must either marginalize or neutralize the Bible as an authority.


Different approaches are taken toward this end. For some, an outright rejection of biblical authority is explicit. With astounding candor, William M. Kent, at one time a member of a committee assigned by United Methodists to study homosexuality, declared that “the scriptural texts in the Old and New Testaments condemning homosexual practice are neither inspired by God nor otherwise of enduring Christian value. Considered in the light of the best biblical, theological, scientific, and social knowledge, the biblical condemnation of homosexual practice is better understood as representing time and place bound cultural prejudice.” This approach is the most honest as found among the revisionists. These persons do not deny that the Bible expressly forbids homosexual practices–they acknowledge that the Bible does just that. Their answer is straightforward; we must abandon the Bible in light of modern knowledge and sensitivities.

The next step taken by those who follow this approach is to suggest that it is not sufficient for the authority of the Bible to be denied–the Bible must be opposed. Gary David Comstock, Protestant chaplain at Wesleyan University charges: “Not to recognize, critique, and condemn Paul’s equation of godlessness with homosexuality is dangerous. To remain within our respective Christian traditions and not challenge those passages that degrade and destroy us is to contribute to our own oppression.” Further, Comstock argues, “These passages will be brought up and used against us again and again until Christians demand their removal from the biblical canon, or, at the very least, formally discredit their authority to prescribe behavior.”

 

A second approach taken by the revisionists is to suggest that the human authors of Scripture were limited by the scientific immaturity of their age. If they knew what we now know, these revisionists claim, the human authors of Scripture would never have been so closed-minded. Victor Paul Furnish makes this case: “Not only the terms, but the concepts ‘homosexual’ and ‘homosexuality’ were unknown in Paul’s day. These terms like ‘heterosexual,’ ‘heterosexuality,’ ‘bisexual,’ and ‘bisexuality’ presuppose an understanding of human sexuality that was possible only with the advent of modern psychology and sociological analysis. The ancient writers were operating without the vaguest idea of what we have learned to call ’sexual orientation’.”

Indeed, Paul and the other apostles seem completely ignorant of modern secular understandings of sexual identity and orientation–and this truth is fundamentally irrelevant. Modern notions of sexual orientation must be brought to answer to Scripture–not vice versa. Scripture must not be called upon to defend itself in light of modern notions. Paul will not apologize to Sigmund Freud or the American Psychological Association, and the faithful church must call this approach what it is–a blatant effort to subvert the authority of Scripture and to replace biblical authority with the false authority of modern secular ideologies.

A third approach taken by the revisionists is to deny that biblical passages actually refer to homosexuality at all, or to argue that the passages refer to specific and ‘oppressive’ homosexual acts. For instance, some argue that Paul’s references to homosexuality are actually references to pederasty [the sexual abuse of young boys], to homosexual rape, or to “non-committed” homosexual relationships. The same is argued concerning passages such as Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22, and Leviticus 20:13. Yet, in order to make this case, the revisionists must deny the obvious–and argue the ridiculous.

Likewise, some argue that the sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, but inhospitality. John J. McNeill takes this line, arguing that the church oppressively shifted the understanding of the sin of Sodom from inhospitality to homosexuality. The text, however, cannot be made to play this game. The context indicates that the sin of Sodom is clearly homosexuality–and without this meaning, the passage makes no sense. The language and the structure of the text are clear. Beyond this, Jude, verse 7, self-evidently links the sin of Sodom with sexual perversion and immorality, stating, “Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.”

This verse is sufficient to indicate the severity of the Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality. Leviticus 18:22 speaks of male homosexuality as an ‘abomination’–the strongest word used of God’s judgment against a human act.

The most extensive argument against homosexuality is not found in the Old Testament, however, but in Romans 1:22-27, a passage which is found within Paul’s lengthy introduction to his Roman letter.

“Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason, God gave them over to degrading passions; for the women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.”

As Romans 1 makes absolutely clear, homosexuality is fundamentally an act of unbelief. As Paul writes, the wrath of God is revealed against all those “who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.” God the Creator has implanted in all humanity a knowledge of Himself, and all are without excuse. This is the context of Paul’s explicit statements on homosexuality.

Homosexual acts and homosexual desire, states Paul, are a rebellion against God’s sovereign intention in creation and a gross perversion of God’s good and perfect plan for His created order. Paul makes clear that homosexuality–among both males and females–is a dramatic sign of rebellion against God and His intention in creation. Those about whom Paul writes have worshipped the creature rather than the Creator. Thus, men and women have forfeited the natural complementarity of God’s intention for heterosexual marriage and have turned to members of their own sex, burning with an illicit desire which is in itself both degrading and dishonorable.

This is a very strong and clear message. The logical progression in Romans 1 is undeniable. Paul shifts immediately from his description of rebellion against God as Creator to an identification of homosexuality–among both men and women–as the first and most evident sign of a society upon which God has turned His judgment. Essential to understanding this reality in theological perspective is a recognition of homosexuality as an assault upon the integrity of creation and God’s intention in creating human beings in two distinct and complementary genders. This text may be dismissed and ignored by those who reject its message, but it cannot be neutralized.

Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr.Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr.,serves as president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary — the flagship school of the Southern Baptist Convention and one of the largest seminaries in the world.Read more

Source: http://www.albertmohler.com/2004/04/21/homosexuality-and-the-bible-twisting-the-truth/



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tsschall

posted May 25, 2012 at 8:27 am


For Nathan and those who espouse the sinful lifestyle and proclivities of homosexuality I simply ask – “Don’t you get it?” All of ushere, all of us on this earth are sinners and are tempted by many and sundry evils. In a very real sense, your attraction to the same sex, while sad, is not the sin. I’m a sinner, there are many sundry and many specific sins that call to me and I have fallen many times. God has and will forgive through the blood of Christ, The difference is the admission of guilt and the cry for forgiveness. Yes, God calls on us in Deuteronomy to be perfect as he is perfect. He also realizes we cannot so he sent the Savior. But as he tells us through Paul’s eloquent logic in Rom. 6 that doesn’t mean we are to keep on sinning, and it certainly doesn’t give us license to redefine sin or to pick and choose those in which we wish to engage.Evil desires are just that – evil, tempting desires. The sin is in falling to them, embracing them, making them lifestyle “choices”, claiming that they are natural and thus acceptable, and flaunting them in God’s face. I’m no zealot, and I’ve no desire to see anyone damned for their refusal to admit sin and accept the freely won salvation of Jesus. But, neither I will sit aside and do nothing as the souls of men and women are dying in ignorance of God’s will and forgiveness.



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tsschall

posted May 22, 2012 at 11:24 pm


Thus, I am not surprised at the following article. I am however dismayed, both as a Christian and as a former U.S. Naval member.

http://www.military.com/news/article/rep-seeks-navy-ship-named-for-gay-activist.html?ESRC=navy.nl



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    Donna Calvin

    posted May 23, 2012 at 12:21 am


    tsschall,

    Thanks for the link to the story about the Navy considering naming a ship for a sodomite activist. My husband just asked, “Are they going to paint it pink or purple? That’s like naming a bank after Willie Sutton, he added. Or naming a surgical wing of a hospital after Jeffrey Dahmer.” Oh, excuse the sarcastic humor, but sometimes it helps relieve the exasperation. I’m going to make a post on this blog about this. People need to know. How very, very sad! I can understand why you feel dismayed. Just remember, Jesus is coming back and they are in trouble. We win. I read the last book of the Bible. Godspeed, friend!



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jessica

posted May 16, 2012 at 8:50 pm


Before I post this I want to say that I am not here to judge or criticize anyone but I am here to speak the words that God, Elohim, God of Abraham, God of Jacob, the father of my Lord and savior Yeshua wrote in the bible so, if you have a problem with that then you will have to take it up with him. God saw that it was not good for man to be alone so he created WOMAN, from one of his ribs. He told them to be fruitful and multiply now I am sorry but there is no way a man and a man or a woman and a woman can be fruitful and multiply without the help of one another, why would you think that would be? honestly, think about it. If God, wanted man and man or woman and woman to be together then he would allowed them to have children without the help of the other gender. If he would have put two men on this earth, this earth would not be here today, not the way he made us now would it? okay, maybe the earth would be here but as far as populated no. God said man shall not lie with man or woman shall not lie with woman. God said man shall leave his mother and father to bind with his wife. I know I should be all the scripture numbers in here but chances are that if you are reading this and are gay, you already are mad, offended, hurt, and want to tell me where to go right? Okay, I am sorry if I have offended anyone I am not anyone’s judge nor executioner nor would I EVER, say to anyone that they would go to hell because they are gay, I am a sinner as well. God is the only Judge, one day we will all have to kneel before him and face all our sins and all we have done. God said judge not and you will not be judged. I love everyone for that is what God said to do but that doesn’t mean that I have to love what they do. I pray for all those that are lost and those that dont know that they are lost and for me as well to give me the wisdom, mercy, love that God wanted us to share with others. That means all people. So, again, if I have offended you I am sorry but I must speak what my God put in my heart to say. May God open the eyes of your heart and not see with just the eyes of your head for those eyes only see what your mind wants them to see. If you understand then you have the ears to hear. Again God bless you all!
By the way God did say that in the latter days the Christians will be persecuted for his sake and for our beliefs so, maybe, the time is closer then we think as, I read in one of the post earlier that the Christians will be outcast instead of the gay, well, my friend that definitely will come true for God is not a God that lies and his word will come to pass and I will be honored to die or to be an outcast for his namesake and for his words of truth. I am not better then ANYONE I am nothing but a sinner like I said previously, but I do repent of my sins and try with all my heart not to do them again not to say that I don’t because if I was perfect we wouldn’t need our Lord and our Savior, Yeshua. I love ALL people and always will I pray for all of us to love one another and to respect one another but that doesn’t mean that I have to love what you do, just love you, no matter what and that I do!!
May God almighty bless us all and forgive us all for we are all sinners and have come short of his glory!!!
Amen



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Captain America

posted December 1, 2011 at 9:58 pm


Thank you. Passages that can neutralize pro gay zelots are a valuable tool



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Nathan

posted August 23, 2011 at 3:29 am


This proud orator of his own knowledge says that i being homosexual inherently neutralise the power of the gospel because i practise homosexuality when my body is inherently attracted to the same sex. Maybe you get excited about this issue because you think you are finally engaging a tangible demonhybrid enemy instead of intangible demons. Employ the power of your logic to wound whatever, whoever will take offence, just dont expect to be praised for it by the knowing. Perhaps your proud of what you can supposedly enhance the salvation message with.., your AmAzInG differentiation of yourself from the homosexual sinner by your own ability, not considering your salvation comes from Christ. Its funny, i believe my justification as a homosexual would be so in question from this guys authority structure that they would influence even those outside the church to regard my ability to live in peace and security with complete contempt. I’ve seen the bridle come off the mouths of evangelicals in private to reveal intense hatred that goes beyond Paul’s and beyond Christendom. Its weird that i can honour the governments of USA, Australia for something these churches dont provide. So criticise your Joel Osteens for not hating homosexuals, say more please, make me laugh….. atleast i can honour them for giving me… a home,… some respect… and maybe some safety from the lofty Doctrines of the “logical deducers of Pauline Contexts”. Way to go Southern Baptists, I praise God you dont run this place.



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    Donna Calvin

    posted August 23, 2011 at 4:01 pm


    Your problem is not with me or Southern Baptists or any person including the author of this article. Your problem is with God. God made the rules. Man’s responsibility is to obey them regardless of anyone’s desires. You either obey them or get crushed by them. I didn’t make that rule either.



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teeman

posted July 15, 2011 at 12:33 pm


Morality has been in constant motion ever since we came to be. It will keep on moving on, whether you like it or not. It wasn’t that long time ago when slavery and racial discrimination was considered morally acceptable, and these viewpoints were justified with Bible.

Look at how we treat people who still hold a few decade old beliefs on racial issues. Look at how we despise the people who held those opinions back when it was the norm. We think they’re evil, despicable, vile, revolting. That is EXACTLY how future generations are going to look at the anti-homosexual opinions of today.

Anyone using Bible to justify their stance against homosexuality and homosexual acts will be condemned as evil, rotten, and influenced by Satan. You are the abominations of tomorrow.



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Jacob

posted July 14, 2011 at 6:57 pm


Time to give it up guys, it’s all a bunch of superstitious nonsense put together by MEN to control the sheep/masses.

“The belief that an all-seeing, all-knowing, all-loving parent watches over & protects us, also ensures that we never truly grow up.”



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T W

posted July 14, 2011 at 6:28 pm


Thank you for this article. I have to agree with everything you have shared because Scripture supports your beliefs.

How God feels about sexual sins – adultery, fornication and homosexuality – does not change our mandate to love our neighbor as ourselves.

Sadly, Christians have jumped from “hating the sin” to hating the sinner. And for this reason, have lost credibility as children of God. While I won’t ever believe that homosexuality is acceptable, it isn’t my job to educate my “gay” friends, but to win them to Christ with love.



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JDE

posted July 14, 2011 at 1:35 pm


@Joe Clarke: “Enjoy your ministerial retirement pensions, for I am guessing, without repentance, there will be nothing good to look forward to afterward.. . .”

Which will, no doubt, give you a great deal of pleasure.



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truthteller1611

posted July 13, 2011 at 1:56 pm


Georgia Dude
When God created man, He created them male and female. Since you don’t know the difference let me explain it.

The vagina is for entry, the anus is for exit, end of argument.

(Gen 1:27) And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female.

He then gave them marriage

(Gen 2:24) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh. Notice, one MAN and one WOMAN.

(Gen 1:28) And God blessed them. And God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply and fill the earth, and subdue it. And have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the heavens, and all animals that move upon the earth.

He told them to go forth and multiply. Same sexes cannot multiply.

(Num 12:1) And Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Cushite woman whom he had taken. For he had taken a Cushite woman.
Cushites are Ethiopian blacks
It was ok for Moses.



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Georgia Dude

posted July 13, 2011 at 12:21 am


What’s the difference with homosexuality and interracial or interfaith relationships or marriages? This is another scam by your right wing bible thumpers. I rather see two men or two women of any race together than straight relationships of different races or different religions.



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Donna Calvin

posted July 12, 2011 at 9:02 am


Donna Calvin’s reply to evil comments: http://blog.beliefnet.com/watchwomanonthewall/?p=4143



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daveys

posted July 12, 2011 at 6:02 am


…I am so thankful I am not one of them.

They speak as though their religious beliefs are the only ones that matter. It amazes me completely. Some of us simply do not believe all this and are much the better off for it. Stop the hate, grow up, do not attempt to control another human (it is a free will planet after all), and do not impose your religion onto the rest of us.

We ain’t buying your crazy.



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Donna Calvin

posted July 11, 2011 at 3:46 pm


Jim, Thanks for your concern about my well being, but you are in error about calling someone a son of the devil. Hear this. You are either a child of God (a born again believer, a bona fide Christian — not one who belongs to and serves an apostate church or who ascribes to false dogma from false bibles) or you are a child of Satan – an unbeliever — then you are still in the same condition into which ALL men and women are born into — belonging to the evil one with original sin. Jim, read [Acts 13:10] “And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?” – You say, the only sons of Satan were those trying to kill Jesus. Jesus was already crucified, dead, buried and resurrected in Acts 13. There are only 2 forces in the world. Those that belong to the Holy Trinity; the Father God, the Son who is God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, are the children of God. All the rest are the children of Satan — into which unfortunate condition every human is born into and into which if they do not repent of their sins (all of them and put them under the blood of Jesus Christ) shall burn in their father’s home, hell’s fire for all eternity. But telling them that just might hurt their feelings, so you say. So what’s better? Not telling them the truth and allowing them to march into hell’s flames unwarned? [Ephesians 4:15] “But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:” – Also, you may want to check out “The Great Commission”…[Matthew 28:19] “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” Jesus was quite clear on the matter: [Matthew 12:30] “He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.” In fact, it stated twice by two different evangelists: repeated in [Luke 11:23] “He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.” Jim, you must read: The Hope – Page 6 located at: http://blog.beliefnet.com/watchwomanonthewall/?p=3698 –Published July 10, 2011
http://blog.beliefnet.com/watchwomanonthewall/2011/07/will-god-judge-ny-ma-ct-ia-vt-me-and-nh-for-the-positions-they-have-taken-on-same-sex-marriage-the-hope-%e2%80%93-part-2-%e2%80%93-page-7.html#ixzz1RpapNZXm



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Jim

posted July 11, 2011 at 8:18 am


Carlos, you bring up some very interesting points. One underlying statement is that homosexuality is not as major of an issue as we make it out to be. I don’t agree that it’s “hardly an issue” but that comes down to semantics. I do agree that we make it a bigger issue that the bible does.

My problem is that we almost completely ignore, or at least minimize, other forms of sexual impurity (adultery for example) and we do completely ignore lying and not honoring parents (for example). In fact not honoring parents is assumed to be a normal state for teenagers.

I can’t tell you how many blogs, articles, news programs etc. that I’ve seen that talk about the sin of homosexuality and how terrible it is that we turn a blind eye to it. I can’t think of one that is written on the sin of not honoring your parents. And this is a sin frequntly noted in the bible.

I agree that homosexuality is sin, and I agree that it should not be ignored. I don’t agree that there should be laws against it (since they could never be enforced). Marriage should have a specific definition, as anything else does, and that definition should be defined by the government for governmental activities (i.e. taxes, property ownership). Based on current standing definitions that definition should be one man and one woman.

I do not agree that people are born homosexuals, since homosexuality is an act, not a disposition. And I don’t believe that “sexual orientation”, which is a mindset, is the same as homosexuality.

Some people are born with a predisposition to become thieves, or alcoholics, or drug addicts; but if they never do the act that gets them there then they are not those things. The same thing applies to sexual orientation; and as with the other things, it can be combatted and overcome.

jim.



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Jim

posted July 11, 2011 at 8:02 am


dcalvin (Donna) – unfortunately your statements are overrun by your criticism of a person. If you disagree with a statement, then stick to the statement, don’t attack the person. True, Jesus spoke to people referencing their “father the devil” but these were specific religious people that were trying to kill Him. I see a difference and I would be very, very hestitant to reference someone as a son of Satan. Bluntly, I don’t have Jesus’ authority in those situations.

Your passing comment to the King James bible as the primary authority brings a whole new angle to this discussion that isn’t being argued or presented. Unfortunately, since you brought it up, I feel the need to say that you should be very careful when you condemn a whole group of people for reading a different translation of the bible than you do. After significnat research I have found some versions to be more accurate and some versions to be less accurate, but it is definitely not the “only source” of scriptural revelation.

Your argument said nothing to combat Carlos’ statements, it only started with the presumption that Carlos is following Satan and then proceeded from there. The foundation was never given that Carlos is following Satan, so you’re building an argument on a very shaky (or nonexistent) foundation.

I’m saying this, first of all, to try to heal some wounds that you may have caused. My guess is that you didn’t cause any on Carlos (Carlos seems pretty tough), but you may have hurt some people that agree with Carlos’ stance.

Second of all I’m saying this as a warning to you. The bible speaks repeatedly about people who speak without knowledge or make accusations without backing, and you did both. Be very carful where you tread, you are putting yourself in a dangerous situation when you go down these roads. At minimum you are opening yourself up to direct attack, and that is not wise.

Granted, this is a blog, and all you have to do is not read responses and you won’t feel attacked. However, I must assume that your personality on-line is the same as your personality in person, and if that is the case then you are putting yourself in danger. If you had addressed Carlos this way in person then he would have every right to address you directly and to eventually bring you before church leadership and show them your words (matt 18).

Be careful; arguing a point is fulfilling and enjoyable as long as you are looking for truth. Attacking a person is dangerous and potentially sinful, and must be done with the clearest of authority, motives and methods (as well as solid evidence as I stated earlier).

jim.



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Donna Calvin

posted July 10, 2011 at 3:52 pm


Carlos, Carlos, Carlos, your own words convict you! Your words are the product of your father, Satan. You use the same tactic he used in the Garden of Eden on Eve. Only I’m not Eve and neither are any of the bona fide Christians who read this blog. You and your father will be of no effect on the wise who truly understand the King James Bible. Carlos, you profess to be knowledgeable, but you are a fool, a slave to sin, controlled and bound by your father, Satan. He is a master of lies and manipulation. Satan twisted God’s Word. God’s commandment to Adam was to not eat from just one tree in the Garden, so the old master of lies and deception did what you’re trying to do, to take God’s Word and manipulate it attempting to turn it into something it is not and was never intended to be. This is what God told Adam: [Genesis 2:16-17] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: [17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. So Satan, the snake, went to the naïve Eve and said: [Genesis 3:1] Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? [Genesis 3:2-6] And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: [3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. [4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: [5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. [6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Ah ha! Satan added to the Word of God and lied to Eve. He said that God said she and Adam weren’t even to touch the tree or they would die. But God never said that! Now if Eve were to eat the fruit, of course, she had to pick it with her hands and touch it. Viola! She didn’t die and she bought into Satan’s lie. Carlos, we Holy Spirit-filled Christians know better! Unlike them, today’s REAL Christians, Eve didn’t have the Written Word of God, the Holy Bible. She didn’t have the Incarnation of Jesus Christ as The Word to teach generations His Word. She didn’t have the indwelling Holy Spirit as we bona fide Christians do since Jesus’ resurrection and ascension into heaven following Pentecost. The evil entity that you belong to, Satan, is smart and he uses the same old tactics that he used from the beginning. But, Carlos, there are those of us who have equipment from God that Eve didn’t have, mainly the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Written Word of God. We have already seen and read about extensively in the Holy Bible about the work of Satan! We know how Satan and his minions (slaves, men in the flesh and the fallen angels/demons). We know how Satan and those who belong to him behave and what you will try to use to bring a woman or man down. But I am not Eve. I am Donna and your tactic failed to work with me, Carlos-Satan. It will fail with every genuine born-again believer! Carlos, you don’t have to be a slave to sin. You, too, can be free. Please read the Gospel of John over and over until it all makes sense to you. Satan is going to work hard to keep you bound, but you can be free. Start by repenting of your sins and telling Satan to get behind you where he can no longer lead you astray! Refer to: [Matthew 16:23] Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. – and [Mark 8:33] and [Luke 4:8] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Carlos, whatever apostate church you may be attending, get out of it and start reading the Holy King James Bible and be set free!



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Manxman

posted July 10, 2011 at 8:23 am


Steve/Carlos

I’d like to raise another side to this issue, and I’m surprised it hasn’t been brought up before. In Leviticus 18, God is talking to Moses about what kind of culture He demands in Israel when He sends them into Canaan to forcibly displace the Canaanites. He gives Moses some of the reasons He was giving the pagans the boot. In doing that He listed the practices of the Egyptian/Canaanite cultures that were wrong for the pagans as they were to be wrong for the people of Israel – various forms of incest, adultery, sacrificing children to other gods, bestiality, homosexual sexual relations, etc. Note that these practices were considered to be seriously “wrong” outside of the Jewish Law. Their “wrongness” was not peculiar in God’s eyes to only the Jews. They are universally condemned.

Consider the following verses (Lev. 18:24-30 ESV) – “Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things,for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you 27(for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), 28 lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. 29 For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. 30 So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: I am the LORD your God.”

The Lord was causing the pagans to be vomited out of the land because of these specific sinful behaviors and practices, and He promised to do the same thing to Israel if they defiled the land with these particular sins.

If God considers these things so seriously wrong that He will cause entire nations to be literally killed (read the bloody events of the book of Joshua) and displaced because of them, then we would do well to think twice as we continue to legalize, protect and normalize homosexual sex in America.

Jesus’ preaching was directed to the Biblically-literate culture of the “lost sheep of Israel.” That culture was well aware of the limits Leviticus 18 placed on human sexual relations and the seriousness of defying God with regard to those limits, both for individuals and nations.



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Joe Clarke

posted July 9, 2011 at 10:37 pm


Poor, poor Methodists and other mainline denominations remind me of “How The Mighty Have Fallen.” Clueless? Reprobate? Ignorant?

Surely ignorant of Biblical Hebrew, Greek, and the clear understanding in scripture that Sodomy is not a “gift” as the Episcopalian hierarchy pleads nor is it a godly option, but grievous sin.

Enjoy your ministerial retirement pensions, for I am guessing, without repentance, there will be nothing good to look forward to afterward.. . .



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Steven

posted July 9, 2011 at 7:24 pm


Carlos, Jesus Christ doesn’t mention a lot of sins by name, does that mean they aren’t sins? Hardly. The fact is that scripture condemns homosexual acts in the very verses you cite.

Sodom was most certainly destroyed because of homosexual acts. Was Sodom also extremely wicked? Certainly so. But scripture is quite clear that they were destroyed because of homosexual acts. You can try to dance around those acts all you want, the fact remains the people of those cities were engaged in homosexual acts.



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Carlos Navarro

posted July 9, 2011 at 7:04 pm


Actually homosexuality as such is hardly an issue in the Bible. The men who threatened to rape Lot’s angelic guests (Gen. 19) and the sojourning Levite (Judges 19) were really heterosexual thugs, the kind found in prisons, who rape other men to show their dominance over them, an act of brutality not lust. The proverbial 300-lb “Bubba.” The rape scene in the film Deliverance offers a good example.

In many cultures past and present it is accepted practice for a macho man to demonstrate his masculinity by sodomizing a weaker man or a homosexual. In my native Cuba, for instance, there are men who boast that they now and then take pleasure in servicing “maricones.” As long as there is no affection on the part of the man perpetrating the act, such acts are not regarded as homosexuality. In both the Genesis and Judges stories the God-fearing hosts tried to appease the thugs by offering them their virgin daughters, which clearly indicates that the thugs were not homosexuals. In the Judges 19 story, the thugs settled for the sojourner’s concubine, in what is perhaps the most harrowing rape scene ever written.

The Mosaic Law did prescribe the death penalty for homosexuality, but also did for murder, rape, kidnapping, witchcraft, idolatry, treason, sedition, contempt of court, temple desecration, cursing one’s parents, pre-marital sex, adultery, incest, and bestiality—this last sin apparently a nagging problem in the shepherding culture of the Chosen People, not only for the people, but for the sheep and goats as well.

Mentions of “sodomy”—vague allusions to sexual transgressions (non-reproductive sex? recreational sex?) crop now and then in the Old Testament, but homosexuality as such only twice. In the New Testament, Paul denounces both male and female homosexuality (Rom. 1: 26-27), but Jesus Christ, the ultimate authority on what is and isn’t sinful, doesn’t mention homosexuality at all. In the New King James Version, Paul makes a distinction between homosexuals and sodomites. Obviously there was a difference between the two. (Cor. 6:9).

Homophobic Evangelicals should read the Scriptures more carefully. God didn’t destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because folks there were gay, but because they were incorrigibly wicked.



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Kimberly

posted June 13, 2011 at 11:53 am


The Bible speaks of all kinds of sins. In Leviticus the same book that is often quoted regarding men laying with men, in chapters 12 & 15 there are in-depth writings and instructions regarding purification and or rules for female discharge and the results of ignoring this rule. It seems that because of minor advances in feminine hygiene products the information in these chapters no longer applies. I’ve gone to church a many of Sundays and Wednesdays in the mist of my period, did that make everyone there unclean? Whatever, I’ll just keep my hand in God’s unchanging hand, avoid killing, lying and stealing< acts which should be an abomination and ask for forgiveness. After all, I could never sentance a bird to it's death.



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Steve

posted June 5, 2011 at 1:56 pm


The term homosexual isn’t even created until a little more than 100 years ago. Like with all lies, there is a grain of truth contained within them. While the term homosexual didn’t exist for most of human history, that doesn’t mean the sexual acts homosexuals engage in were not understood when scripture was written. Sexual acts between two men were clearly understood when scripture was written. That the writers, God inspired of course, wouldn’t have understood these sins to be part of some sexual orientation it doesn’t mean those sexual acts were not understood as sin.

Sexual orientation, as the left likes to define and call it, is really irrelevant to understanding what scripture says about same sex sexual acts. These people can call themselves whatever they want, they’re committing sin according to scripture. They need to seek forgiveness for it through the blood of Christ. We in the church must be willing to offer them the truth about their sinful sexual acts and offer them knowledge about the redemption available for all of God’s elect, for all sins, through the blood of Christ.



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