Text Messages

Text Messages


Lost Christianity: A Q&A with Philip Jenkins

posted by Patton Dodd

LostXianity.jpgI was introduced to Philip Jenkins‘ work several years ago through his Atlantic cover story, “The Next Christianity.” There, Jenkins explained that the center of global Christianity was shifting to the southern hemisphere. In The Next Christendom and the two related titles that followed, Jenkins argued that Christianity today is not as Western as we believe it to be–and it’s becoming less so all the time. 

Now, Jenkins is arguing that the Christian past isn’t as Western as we think, either. The Lost History of Christianity is a fascinating study of the first thousand-plus years of the Church–a Church rooted in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia. We have much to learn from the tale of its reach, its particular way of being Christian, and its eventual decomposition. 
Jenkins was kind enough to answer some questions via email. Our exchange appears after the jump. 

Your book’s first sentence is “Religions die,” which is rather shocking to the way we see religions existing today: I think we expect cults to fade away, but not established religions. Why are you concerned, at this moment, to write about the vanishing of faith traditions?

Religions really do die. We think of ancient religions like those of the Aztecs or Mayas, which had millions of followers, not to mention copious scriptures. Also, something like the Manichaean faith once stretched from France to China, but that is now extinct. The Zoroastrian religion is not exactly extinct, but it has gone from being a vast world religion to the creed of a few hundred thousand believers. 

But also, religions die in particular times and places, in the sense that they once dominated whole countries, but then cease to exist there. The religion is not dead in the sense that it still continues somewhere else, but that is a local kind of death. My book is mainly about Christianity in the Middle East, but I might also look at Islam in Spain, or Buddhism in most of India. Just within our lifetimes, we probably will see the extinction of Christianity in Iraq and probably Palestine.

What interests me about the topic is that so little has ever been done on it. We really don’t know why religions die, and if they do, in what sense they might leave ghosts. One thing that strikes me is how much a dead religion influences its successor – how for instance the old Christianity left its mark on the successor faith of Islam.

Finally, there is a major theological issue that nobody addresses, the theology of extinction. How do Christians explain the death of their religion in a particular time and place? Is that really part of God’s plan? Or maybe our time scale is just too short, and one day we will realize why this had to happen. But as I say, nobody is really discussing these questions.

The fact you find the remark “religions die” so shocking proves that I am right to be exploring it!

Give us a sense of the scope of the Eastern Christianity that, as you explain, dominated the first half of Christian history.

Its sheer scale is astonishing. Already by the seventh century, the Church of the East – the Nestorian church – is pushing deep into Central Asia. Nestorian monks were operating in China before 550, and nobody knows when the first Christian actually saw the Pacific – that would be a great historical novel for someone to write! 

As I write in the book, “Before Saint Benedict formed his first monastery, before the probable date of the British King Arthur, Nestorian bishops functioned at Nishapur and Tus in north-eastern Persia. Before England had its first Archbishop of Canterbury, the Nestorian church already had metropolitans at Merv in Turkmenistan and Herat in Afghanistan, and churches were operating in Sri Lanka and Malabar. Before Good King Wenceslas ruled a Christian Bohemia, before Poland was Catholic, the Nestorian sees of Bukhara and Samarkand achieved metropolitan status. So did Patna on the Ganges, in India.” What I find fascinating about that is how that history violates our usual assumptions about what Christianity looked like in the so-called Dark Ages – about what it was, and where it happened.

Also, this Eastern world has a solid claim to be the direct lineal heir of the earliest New Testament Christianity. Throughout their history, the Eastern churches used Syriac, which is close to Jesus’s own language of Aramaic, and they followed Yeshua, not Jesus. Everything about these churches runs so contrary to what we think we know. They are too ancient, in the sense of looking like the original Jerusalem church; and they are too modern, in being so globalized and multi-cultural.

Just a suggestion. Perhaps we should think of these eastern communities – the Nestorians and Jacobites – as the real survivors of ancient Christianity. In that case, the great Western churches we know, the Catholic and Orthodox, are the “alternative Christianities.”

What aspects of Eastern Christianity would you most like to recover?

Undoubtedly, its ability to relate to other cultures and religions in a way that does not necessarily mean conceding any fundamental claims on either side. These Christians interact freely with Buddhists and exchange ideas to the point that some use a lotus-cross symbol. At the same time, this is an authentic version of ancient Christianity – liturgical, monastic and mystical.

From its earliest ages, Christianity has always been a vastly wider, more diverse and more global faith than we ever give it credit for.

Your book is concerned with the conflict between Islam and Christianity. Is there any sense in which the story of those two faiths is more than just a history of conflict?

Absolutely. Christians survive perfectly well for centuries under Muslim regimes, and the relations between the two are often excellent.  In fact, Islam borrows massively from those ancient Christian churches. They borrow a lot of the architectural styles of mosques, the worship practices, and customs like Lent, which becomes the Muslim Ramadan. In fact, if a sixth or seventh century Eastern Christian came back today, that person would probably feel more at home in a mosque than a typical Western church service. That comfort level might change once they explored the doctrines being taught, but the general atmosphere would be very similar. The more you look at these Eastern Christianities, the easier it is to understand that Islam and Christianity emerged as sister faiths.

If those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it, what lessons does The Lost History of Christianity have for us today?

By far the biggest lesson for me is not so much how some churches die, but how others survive. We should look at communities like the Copts in Egypt, who have survived under Muslim rule for almost 1400 years. We have much to learn about their adaptability in the face of dominant languages and cultures, their ability to learn the new languages of power, without abandoning their core beliefs. Christians around the world have vast accumulated experience about dealing with minority status, and with exclusion from power and influence on a scale vastly greater than that faced by any modern church in the West. How have they done it?

What kinds of Christian decline have happened more recently? What do you see happening now?

By far the largest change is in the Middle East, the region between Persia and Egypt. As recently as 1900, the Christian population of that whole region was almost ten percent, but today it is just a couple of percent, and falling fast. Particularly if climate change moves as rapidly as it some believe, the resulting tensions could reduce Christian numbers much further. Egypt would be the most worrying example here. Might that 1,400 year story come to an end in our lifetimes?

Europe is nothing like as serious an issue. The number of active or committed Christians certainly is declining, but the churches don’t face anything like what is happening in the Middle east. There is no plausible prospect of a Muslim regime anywhere in Western Europe, or of the recreation of the social order on the lines of Muslim law. Realistically, people of Muslim background will constitute a substantial minority of the European population, rather than a majority, and it is far from clear that most will define themselves primarily according to strict religious loyalties. European Christianity may be in anything but a healthy state, but Islam need not be its greatest cause for concern. 

Matters are very different in other countries of Africa and Asia, where Muslims and Christians are in deep competition. We could imagine wars and persecutions that could uproot whole societies.



Advertisement
Comments read comments(10)
post a comment
Salauddeen

posted December 10, 2008 at 5:23 pm


Christians lived in harmony with Muslims? Which is why almost all Christian Arabs live in the Americas (some 12 million in Brazil!)



report abuse
 

Gilgamesh Gabriel

posted December 12, 2008 at 6:16 am


Dear Philip Jenkins,
Thanks for your nice article of “Lost Christianity” which I enjoyed reading it very much. I think there are some very important points or issues you still need to know and research regarding the population of Christianity since Islam started until today for the last 1400 years. What is the reason behind for being in such low percentage at present?
Best Regards
Gilgamesh Gabriel
I’m Assyrian Christian from Mesopotamia



report abuse
 

Gilgamesh Gabriel

posted December 12, 2008 at 6:17 am


Dear Philip Jenkins,
Thanks for your nice article of “Lost Christianity” which I enjoyed reading it very much. I think there are some very important points or issues you still need to know and research regarding the population of Christianity since Islam started until today for the last 1400 years. What is the reason behind for being in such low percentage at present?
Best Regards
Gilgamesh Gabriel
I’m Assyrian Christian from Mesopotamia



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted January 9, 2009 at 2:27 pm


It is not wise to comment on a book beore reading it, so I will not be disrespectful of Mr. Jenkins’ work.
Yet, like a previous contributor I must wonder out loud what is meant by the statement “Christians survive perfectly well for centuries under Muslim regimes, and the relations between the two are often excellent”.
My understanding of the relationship between Christians and Moslems is that the operative words to describe it were “survive” and “under”. That Islam might have been magnanimous at times can be easily understood, after all they were the “conquerors”. Christians who wanted to live and practice their faith obviously had to toe the line. And by practice I mean “believe” and not “propagate” their beliefs in Christ.
If Jenkin’s book has a different story to that familar one, I truly would like to hear him tell it. It would be a delight to know that there was a time when Islam was both powerful and tolerant.
If only we could get “militant Islam” to pause and reflect on those days of glory, for which they crave so much these days.



report abuse
 

sandy cathcart

posted January 12, 2009 at 4:35 pm


After working with an Institute of Urban Affairs at a prominent east coast university, I never take too much stock in numbers. This is another case of numbers having little meaning.
I spent a decade delivering Bibles to believers in restricted countries and was surprised to discover that there is a large dynamic body of Christian believers quite alive, even in Muslim Countries. Going underground does not mean the church is dead.
The Bible speaks of a similar incidence in I Kings when Elijah complains to the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY that he is the only one left who has not rejected God’s covenant. God’s answer was that there were 7,000 who had not bowed their knees to Baal. Seven thousand is a lot of people! Elijah thought he was the only one.
Almighty God is aware of every knee who has not bowed to Islam! Even if we are not. I enjoy being a part of the Body of Christ united with believers from every tribe and nation! And I pray for my sisters and brothers in countries where their faith must remain a secret even though Christianity is still very much alive.



report abuse
 

David Moore

posted March 7, 2009 at 1:12 pm


With regard to Muslim, and other types of “tolerance” the above writers make a good point. “Tolerance” is not the same as “pluralism,” the latter being what we strive for in our own society. Pluralism means that there is no state religion, and that all faiths are equal under the law, have equal rights, and are not just “tolerated.” In practice, “tolerance” of any minority group, and especially of Christian communities in Muslim countries, all too often means that, “We will allow you to practice your beliefs, but not in public. You will not be allowed to build new houses of worship, or carry out repairs and renovations to those you have. You will not be persecuted, unless your followers become too successful, too numerous, or too influential. At that point we will incite just enough mob violence to only kill as many of you as necessary for us to maintain our own position of power.” The history of Syrian and Armenian Christians is just one example, and there are many others, not to mention that of the Jews in both Europe and the middle east.
In this country, we too often discount the wisdom of our founders in specifically precluding the establishment of a state religion. Nowhere in Christian doctrine or belief is it stated that Christianity should be a state religion; indeed, Jesus and the apostles repeatedly point out that we should not expect, or want, as Christians, to be powerful politically. The opposite is true of Islam, which explicitly calls for the establishment of theocracy as its ultimate goal.



report abuse
 

mik ross

posted August 19, 2009 at 6:39 am


The “lost christianity” should also include the extant evidence of the Celtics and America, before the Roman Catholics took over their ancient and early church. Also, in New England, evidence of Celtic monks’ ‘huts’ made of simple stacked stones, akin to the ones still on Irelands shores, still stand.
And don’t forget the Liturgy, and Ikons, which the Copts, Orthodox and Eastern Catholics still have in their homes. Evangelicals, and Protestants in general have done much damage to the Tradition of the Church in America. Hopefully, a Holy Russia will emerge in the near future, to help recapture their Holy Heritage of Christian lineage.



report abuse
 

Jerome Nguyen Van Khi

posted April 2, 2011 at 3:15 am


I do not think that religion will disappear at all. But it will change its form. Instead of an other-worldly deity as it is usually understood by the West, we are endowed with deity ourselves. It depends how we live the time in Saint Augustine’s understanding and proceed the evolution Teilhard de Chadrin proposes us. They are marvellous linkmen of both West and East religion. Only extremist religion like the Islam in Pakistan will disappear certainly.

I will share my opinion with anyone who possesses such an idea if I have have a chance to get in touch with him.

That is the final conclusion we will have to come to in order to bring peace and solidarity to this troublesome world. And it is a ‘must’ for everybody who still has a heart to humanity.

Thanks for reading



report abuse
 

Pingback: The Church’s African, Middle Eastern and Asian Roots | @ActonInstitute PowerBlog

Pingback: What happened to two thirds of the Church? | Paul Prins

Post a Comment

By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.



Previous Posts

The Last Text Message
Today is my last day with Beliefnet, and my last day as the author of this blog. The Text Messages archives will remain live at this location, but posting will cease. If that sounds gloomy, it's an accurate reflection of my mind this afternoon. I've chosen to pursue new opportunities, but I'm n

posted 3:47:12pm Feb. 04, 2009 | read full post »

Quitting Church: A Q&A with Julia Duin
Why do people stop going to church? This big question is the subject of Julia Duin's small book, Quitting Church: Why teh Faithful are Fleeing and What To Do About It. Duin is not a disinterested observer of the phenomenon of church-dropping; rather, she's a churchgoer who wants churches to work wel

posted 4:03:51pm Feb. 03, 2009 | read full post »

Rob Stennett vs. Marilynne Robinson
I'm overjoyed that my good friend Rob Stennett has won the Award of Merit from Christianity Today for his novel The Almost True Story of Ryan Fisher. (Here's CT's review of the book.) Stennett's hilarious book is about a real estate agent who joins a suburban church in order to reach the Christian h

posted 2:36:44pm Jan. 30, 2009 | read full post »

What is spiritual restoration?
Slate asked for an essay on Ted Haggard's spiritual restoration. I'm okay with what I came up with for now, but the more I think about it, the more I think we need better thinking on what restoration looks like for very public, outspoken, influential men and women like Haggard:Most people who fail n

posted 9:00:56am Jan. 29, 2009 | read full post »

It's Not TV; it's Ted TV
A blog might not be the best medium for an essay like this. But I want to offer some more considered thoughts on Ted Haggard and his HBO documentary; I hope this performs some kind of service in a story that I hope will end--in its public iteration--very soon. This was written as a stand-alone essay

posted 3:57:44am Jan. 28, 2009 | read full post »




Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.