Lynn v. Sekulow

Lynn v. Sekulow


WARREN GETS NO PASS FROM ME

posted by Rev. Barry W. Lynn

I’m sorry, Jay, but I can’t say “amen” to your characterization of Rick Warren’s participation in the inaugural ceremony.  Although once you pass the threshold of having two Protestant ministers, it is not unexpected that one or both (in this case, only one since the Rev. Joseph Lowery did not) is going to pray in the name of Jesus. As you know, I think the prayers should have been restricted to the worship service the then-President elect attended earlier in the day. Adding the Lord’s Prayer to the end of Warren’s own was really over the top, since this is such a well-known Christian intercession. 

As he discussed on Larry King’s show, Warren doesn’t believe non-believers should be elected to public office, at least not to the Presidency.  So he still thinks their moral compass is inferior to his own just on the face of it.  Also, I don’t like people prattling on about “our commitment to freedom and justice for all” when they just participated in a campaign of injustice, in Warren’s case his support for passage of California’s notoriously discriminatory Proposition 8.

As for that poll about Warren, sorry, but I’m not buying it.  Given that very few people know who is on the Supreme Court, the idea that 61% of people even know who Rick Warren is simply stretches credulity. 



Advertisement
Comments read comments(31)
post a comment
Your Name

posted January 20, 2009 at 8:37 pm


No one asked me what I think of Rev Warren but I agree with Barry Lynn that he’s a hypocrite. I have no use for high profile preachers anyway. What makes them so special? Where’s the humility? Show me an honest man. Look how many of those televangelist have been caught in outrageous scandals. And the scandal in the Catholic church. Who can you trust? He’s a hypocrite to speak of freedom and justice for all. The inauguration had far too much of a Christian religious service flavor to it for this skeptic. Hardly inclusive. Did we all catch the vocal intonation when Obama was asked “So help you God?” It sounded like a challenge, almost as if to say, “You better so help you God” Obamas a good sport. Clearly the only reason Warren was there at all was for Obama to show that he does respect alternate opinions and will give them a voice. So glad the Bush years are over. So amazing that America put an African American family in the White House. Very heartening. I think we can expect some real change.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted January 20, 2009 at 9:33 pm


For Warren fans and detractors I would suggest “The Reason Driven Life: What Am I Here on Earth For?” by Robert M. Price
Price does a pretty good job of mocking Warren’s drivel, dreariness and absurdities.



report abuse
 

Stephen Sarapa

posted January 20, 2009 at 10:34 pm


Psalms 118:8
It is better to take refuge in the LORD,
Than to trust man.



report abuse
 

robroy

posted January 20, 2009 at 11:06 pm


Mr. Lynn, who has worked tirelessly to oppose Evangelical Christians his entire life, doesn’t approve of Rick Warren’s invocation? I couldn’t have called that one. I can’t think of a more rousing endorsement.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted January 21, 2009 at 5:10 am


I suppose AA’s shouldn’t say the “Our Father” to close meetings either, should they Barry? I mean, seeing as how they’re not just for Christians but for the ‘God’ of ‘many understandings’?
Outside of wholesale syncretism and religious homogenization no prayer service will ever satisfy everyone (Buddhists, Shamen, etc.)
This anal-retentiveness held by some ‘Christian’ ministers to circumvent any trace of Christ when dealing with the secular public I find very disturbing. Worry more about appeasing Christ and less about offending non-Christians!



report abuse
 

Nicholas

posted January 21, 2009 at 8:11 am


RobRoy, Barry Lynn doesn’t “oppose evangelical Christians”. He opposes First Amendment offenses. So many of these debates degrade into arguments about religion vs. atheism that are beside the point.



report abuse
 

Jimbo

posted January 21, 2009 at 6:08 pm


When do we stop blaming the messenger(s)? Everyone should recognize that Warren and the countless numbers of others are only confirming what the Christian Historical Bible clearly states about how Christian’s are supposed to live their lives.
And according to the Bible, not me or Warren, President Obama automatically has a higher standard to follow (as president) and we’ll all see how that plays out over the next four years. Romans 12:8…If God has given you leadership ability, take the responsibility seriously. Pretty good wisdom for all of us.



report abuse
 

Rebecca

posted January 22, 2009 at 11:34 am


Rick Warren’s use of the Lord Prayer was exclusionary and inappropriate, given the diversity of the audience. To recite one version of prayer sends a message that those who aren’t reciting it with the person praying are not part of the “in group.” At least Obama acknowledged that there are non-Christians in this country, and even non-believers! I think it’s the first time in any inaugural speech where non-believers were referenced.



report abuse
 

John

posted January 22, 2009 at 2:31 pm


I am truly mystified by those who think Pastor Warren’s Prayer, and using the Lord’s Prayer was in any way inappropriate. With emphasis being placed on the historic impact of Obama’s election; reflection on history should have followed suit.
This nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, brought forward by our founding fathers, and by all who signed the Declaration of Independence, and authored our own Constitution. Even Benjmin Franklin, the most liberal of those present at the time, stated “I do not want to live in country that doesn’t have God in it’s government…”
There is no separation of church and state in our constitution. To change the very essence of what our founding father’s believed, to appease the few is ludicrous.
Take a stand for our Constitution.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted January 22, 2009 at 3:37 pm


John, I challenge you to name just one Christian among our founders. There is no mention of the Bible or Christianity in our founding papers. As far as Ben Franklin your quote is a forgery, a hoax. Franklin never uttered such a stupid phrase. Rather Ben Franklin was harassed and threatened by Christians after he “robbed God of his power” by inventing the lightening rod. “The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.” – Ben Franklin



report abuse
 

Laura

posted January 22, 2009 at 11:23 pm


There is a God Whether You Believe in Him or Not
I personally feel that Rick Warren’s prayer sounded like a prayer to “the Unknown god” until he stated Christ’s name at the end of it. The prayer itself was so watered-down that it should have covered just about any type of “god” that anyone could possibly believe in. Some people believe that “nature” is “god” because it is the only thing that they themselves cannot control with their own power. The Bible itself talks about people such as this when it states, “They worshipped the creature rather than the Creator.” I wish these people would just pick up the Bible and actually read it for themselves all the way through. It talks about the skeptics and the scoffers that have always been around. The Bible makes a lot of sense and is filled with a genuine sense of reason. Jesus Christ most assuredly did exist, and that is a proven fact that can be researched. He is not just mentioned in the Bible as existing, but in many books, especially of the ancient Jewish traditions. He is referred to in print by many who did not believe that He was God. God does not need human beings to believe in Him to exist. But we would not exist without Him. We’ll all find out when we die, and those who insult Him now will wish that they had never said the things that some have posted on this message board. Instead of trashing God and our founding fathers, perhaps you can just state what it is that you believe in, instead of being so negative and hate-filled.
As for abortion, I’ll give you my definition of it: “Abortion is sacrificing another for your own personal gain, instead of what a mother is supposed to do which is making sacrifices for someone to have a life.” Everyone takes a chance when they “get involved” sexually with someone else, and as with all things in life, there are consequences for our actions. If you get pregnant, you have the responsibility to take care of that child. You can’t kill an innocent human being and not face terrible consequences. Abortion endangers a woman’s life also. Just ask any woman who has had an abortion. She might never be able to have a child again. Or, she will suffer severe mental and physical distress for the rest of her life. Abortion is never safe. Just ask any honest physician. Mistakes are never really “erased,” and we all must face the consequences of our actions.
I’m tired of arguing about whether our founding fathers believed in God or not. Please read their writings. No one can get into the mind of someone else, and we only have history itself to prove what people believed in. We have their words, written down.
Please don’t knock Jay. He is a wonderful person who is working tirelessly to save our religious and Constitutional freedoms. He is most certainly pro-women. I politely ask everyone to please state what it is that you do believe in, so we can all agree to disagree if that is the case.
Laura



report abuse
 

Boris

posted January 23, 2009 at 10:18 am


Laura,
Just because you believe there’s a God won’t make it do. There might be a God but the Christian God is imaginary and Jesus Christ never existed.
As far as our founders being Christians I’ll challenge you like I’ve done several Christians now, to name just one of our founders who was a professing Christian. You should stop getting your history from Christian historical revisionist liars like David Barton, Gary DeMar and others. Try the public library if you want to know the truth about the evil and false religion of Christianity.



report abuse
 

Robert

posted January 23, 2009 at 7:27 pm


Ok Boris I can name one Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin,



report abuse
 

Boris

posted January 23, 2009 at 7:55 pm


Robert,
The words of these men prove you wrong. Read ‘em and weep:
Thomas Jefferson (Deist)
“History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose. ” – Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813
“The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.”
“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.” –Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.
“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.” –Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
“Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies.”
“I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.”
“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.”
“It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
- Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
Benjamin Franklin
“I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies.”
“Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.”
“The way to se by faith is to shut the eye of reason.”
-Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
Okay Robert Wanna try again?



report abuse
 

Cbu

posted January 23, 2009 at 9:34 pm


Comment to BORIS about our founding fathers
Hi Boris, there is documented proof that this nation was founded on Christian principle found in the Bible. I was surprised to see that you indicate that you haven’t been able to find them in your research. A simple google search led me to the link I posted above and the following excerpt regarding even Ben Franklin.
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin’s 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach “the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern.”
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as “a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone.”



report abuse
 

Mary-Lee

posted January 24, 2009 at 11:29 am


I think that there are truly some people out there who, for some reason, need the threat of eternal damnation to keep them on the straight and narrow. Others need to believe that someone loves them in spite of their weaknesses and mistakes and will always be on their side no matter what.
Others somehow manage to stay on the straight and narrow simply because doing so makes sense to them. It’s just the right thing to do. They do not need constant, unconditional love either. Love is not what motivates them… but justice is.
That’s probably way too simple, but my point is who’s to say which person is superior? Just respect the diversity and don’t pray just to the eternal damnation/unconditional love guy in public. Not everyone needs to hear it.



report abuse
 

Cathy

posted January 24, 2009 at 1:19 pm


Boris, here’s some interesting quotes & the first one is for the liberals:
George Washington-
“To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.”
—Jan. 8, 1790
This one is for Barack Obama & his clueless lemmings:
Millard Fullmore
“It is not strange . . . to mistake change for progress.”
Also for Barack Obama & his socialist ideas:
Grover Cleveland -
“It is the responsibility of the citizens to support their government. It is not the responsibility of the government to support its citizens.”
And now read it and weep:
George Washington – “It is impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible.” and
“Do not let any one claim to be a true American if they ever attempt to remove religion from politics.”
Abraham Lincoln – In regard to this great book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man’s welfare, here and hereafter, are to found portrayed in it.”
Ulysses S. Grant – “Hold fast to the Bible as the sheet-anchor of your liberties; write its precepts in your hearts and practice them in your lives. To the influence of this book we are indebted for all the progress made in true civilization, and to this we must look as our guide in the future. Righteousness exalteth a nation; but sin is a reproach to any people.”
Franklin Roosevelt: “We must recognize the fundamental rights of man. There can be no true national life in our democracy unless we give unqualified recognition to freedom of religious worship and freedom of education.”
Also of interest to us Americans: The words separation of church and state appear NOWHERE in our constitution. They came into play when supreme court justices in the late 1800′s misinterpreted a letter written by President Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Church. Separation of church and state was meant that the STATE WOULD STAY OUT OF THE CHURCH!
Know your history – it is up to us to study and know. Not just depend on others because they are the “experts”.



report abuse
 

Boris

posted January 24, 2009 at 7:36 pm


Cathy I think you better check your source material. Quoting David Barton’s admitted forgeries has permanently discredited you.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted January 25, 2009 at 6:44 pm


Boris,
You should never assume you know without question. The quotes I obtained came from infoplease.com, compiled by David Johnson. Also from quotesandpoem.com and from the Ethics Resource Center. None of these sites are religious or particularly Christian. I would like to know where your quotes came from because I cannot find the likes of them anywhere.
Mary Lee eternal damnation has nothing to do with whether our Country was or was not founded on Judeo-Christian principle.
Sincerely,
Cathy



report abuse
 

Robert

posted January 26, 2009 at 12:33 am


As for that poll on Warren, believe it. If you have tens of millions of people making a devotional practice out of reading your books, you will be vastly better known than Justice Stevens.
And while I don’t share Warren’s views myself, if you wouldn’t have Warren, who would you have? Bill Maher?



report abuse
 

Cara Floyd

posted January 27, 2009 at 12:02 am


Godless rules in a godless society brought on by people who don’t wish to put the Word of God above their opinions. One nation under God, remember that? Cara



report abuse
 

Boris

posted January 27, 2009 at 5:42 am


No Cara. We don’t believe that you Christians have the words of God in your flat immovable earth, talking animal and vegetation collection of lies, nonsense and fairy tales. Excuse us for not believing graves opened up and people got out of them and appeared to many as the author of Matthew falsely claimed. You think that’s the word of God? Mother Goose is closer to being the word of God! ROFL!



report abuse
 

Deb

posted January 28, 2009 at 2:44 pm


Warren is wrong about “nonbelievers”, and his opinion that they are unfit for public service is ignorant and bigoted. In fact, he probably doesn’t even know the extent of “nonbelievers” in his own life (family, neighbors, friends, etc.), just as he probably fails to see the homosexuals in his own life. I think it is time that we nonbelievers step out of our shells, and start promoting ourselves as the principled, intelligent, freethinking individuals that we are! Can we begin with pointing out that we are underrepresented in the prison system!!!!!!



report abuse
 

GES

posted January 29, 2009 at 5:01 pm


Barry,
Check out this website, http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/pa08.asp
The idea that Presidents and elected officials must believe in God is/was actually expected. The reference above is Penn State’s 1st Constitution which states:
I do believe in one God, the creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration.
When elected officials do not believe as the statemenet above reads, it is easier for them to sway with man’s judgement – which seems to be our Country’s current condition – corruption, greed, power



report abuse
 

Shouldbeworkin'

posted January 30, 2009 at 3:25 pm


By your evidence, the idea that Presidents and elected officials must believe in God is/was actually expected was true at least at Penn state, and, i would add, a few other misguded institutions and political bodies. It also flies in the face of Article 6, section 3 of the US Constitution.
How do you reconcile your statement with the fact that corruption, greed, & power has most recently been displayed by those who are the most “devout?”



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted January 30, 2009 at 10:19 pm


Ah, the Spirit of Truth is talking, but is anyone listening? Sin blinds us from the truth, instead we can only see a shadow of truth through the already tainted lens that we view our world through.
He who has ears, let him hear what the Spirit says and pray for those who can’t hear or receive it.



report abuse
 

N. Lindzee Lindholm

posted October 29, 2009 at 7:39 pm


Why should prayer be confined to a worship service? We have “in God we trust” ironed on our money, the phrase “under God” in our Pledge of Allegiance, “So help me God” in the President’s and other Officer’s oaths, and Laws of Nature and Nature’s God in the Declaration of Independence. Let’s be proud and celebrate the fact that our country is unique in that it was founded upon Judeo-Christian principles intertwined in America’s history.



report abuse
 

HelgaCollier

posted July 20, 2010 at 11:23 pm


If you’re in a not good position and have no cash to get out from that point, you will have to take the loan. Because it would aid you unquestionably. I get bank loan every single year and feel good because of that.



report abuse
 

Konsolen

posted September 2, 2010 at 5:00 am


Vielen Dank! Super Artikel! Wenn Sie Elektronik möchten,Können Sie im unser efox-shop suchen.wir bieten Navigation ,GPS Gerät ,DVD Spieler ,Auto Werkzeuge ,Auto Schmuck ,Kfz Zubehör AND China GPS , Navigation Gerät AND Auto DVD Spieler kaufen , Auto GPS Gerät kaufen AND Auto Rückfahrsystem Konsolen usw.
welcome you to : http://www.efox-shop.com/pc-videospiele-china-spiel-konsole-c-236_395.html Die besten Dual SIM Handys, Konsolen ,



report abuse
 

Serial

posted September 25, 2010 at 10:32 am


Hello amigos, I am Anna and I want to make my little commentary. I am want to place your text at my personal blog, with link to your blog. Is it normal for your? give to me your answer, please.



report abuse
 

crackserial

posted September 29, 2010 at 7:00 pm


Your writing is simple great, Especially for beginners!



report abuse
 



Previous Posts

Another Blog To Enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting LynnvSekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow: Faith and Justice  Happy Reading!

posted 11:26:38am Aug. 16, 2012 | read full post »

Another blog to enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting Lynn V. Sekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow's Faith and Justice Happy Reading!!!

posted 10:36:04am Jul. 06, 2012 | read full post »

More to Come
Barry,   It's hard to believe that we've been debating these constitutional issues for more than two years now in this space.  I have tremendous respect for you and wish you all the best in your new endeavors.   My friend, I'm sure we will continue to square off in other forums - on n

posted 4:52:22pm Dec. 02, 2010 | read full post »

Thanks for the Memories
Well Jay, the time has come for me to say goodbye. Note to people who are really happy about this: I'm not leaving the planet, just this blog.As I noted in a personal email, after much thought, I have decided to end my participation and contribution to Lynn v. Sekulow and will be doing some blogging

posted 12:24:43pm Nov. 21, 2010 | read full post »

President Obama: Does He Get It?
Barry,   I would not use that label to identify the President.  I will say, however, that President Obama continues to embrace and promote pro-abortion policies that many Americans strongly disagree with.   Take the outcome of the election - an unmistakable repudiation of the Preside

posted 11:46:49am Nov. 05, 2010 | read full post »




Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.