Everyday Ethics

Everyday Ethics


I’m Still Pissed About Marriage Equality Not Passing In New York State. But Is It My Fault?

posted by hfields

I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating: I don’t see another ethical position to take other than to support same-sex marriage.

This week, my home state shamed me by refusing to pass legislation legalizing gay marriage
But is it actually MY fault it didn’t pass? 


Sure, I joined Facebook groups. I wrote passionately in support of it. But I’m wondering if, had I gotten more involved – joining protests, writing to my crappy, unsupportive state senators – I might have had some, perhaps miniscule, more influence on the outcome. 
I don’t know. I’m so jaded about our political process that I tend to feel nothing I do can sway these shifty, corrupt, girlfriend-beating crum-bums up in Albany. Still, should I not try as hard as I can?  I may not be gay, but as the poem goes: 

When the Nazis came for the
communists,

I did not speak out; As I was not a communist.
When they locked up the
social democrats, I did not speak out; I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade
unionists, I did not speak out;? As I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,? I
did not speak out;? As I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,? there
was no one left to speak out. — Martin
Niemöller

I’m not a fan of throwing
comparisons to Hitler and the Nazis around at every opportunity. I think it’s
overwrought and inappropriate in most cases. But when you think about the
actual treatment
of homosexuals by the Nazis
, well… this rhetoric doesn’t seem quite so
overblown. 

If I don’t speak up now, what
happens when the NY State Senate decides to curb MY civil rights?

Marriage equality now!


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Bill

posted December 4, 2009 at 11:18 am


As a 40 year old gay citizen, it has become clearer and clearer to me that the intention of the vast majority of the heterosexuals that CREATE every single gay citizen is to institute a life of discrimination for us from cradle to grave.
The governor of Rhode Island recently vetoed a bill that would allow gay citizens in a relationship to claim each other’s dead bodies and plan for each other’s funerals. He said the reason for his veto was that this was too close to marriage.
Too close to marriage.
Again, from cradle to grave, discrimination.
I can only say to the vast majority of heterosexuals that you are causing TRUE and IMMEASURABLE harm to innocent people’s lives, and you don’t even care. And you do these vile things while hiding behind ‘god’ and ‘bible.’
Well, let me tell you something. God would NEVER condone what you are doing to HIS children. And you all know it. Using god to perpetrate your crimes against humanity is about the most immoral thing it has ever been my misfortune to witness.
The vast majority Heterosexuals allow abuse, degradation, dehumanization, rape, torture and murder of their gay children. From cradle to grave. We aren’t even safe in our SCHOOLS. Or in our own neighborhoods. Yet you scream your heads off about morality?????? Really???????????
Morality indeed, heterosexuals.
Morality indeed.



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Danny

posted December 4, 2009 at 11:39 am


Thanks so much for your kind and non-judgmental words, Bill. While I don’t support gay marriage I cannot support the governor of Rhode Island’s decision that you mentioned. That seems to me as pure discrimination. But marriage is wholly different than the rights to dead bodies. I can’t consider it a “crime against humanity” that gay people are excluded from marriage, but I would NEVER perpetrate an act of violence against a gay person and I would NEVER try to make a gay person feel unsafe in their own country, and I would prosecute anyone for doing anything like that. I simply don’t believe that same-sex marriage is a necessary civil right. And you call me out for “morality’s” sake. One of my closest friends is gay. I love him as a brother.



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meeka

posted December 4, 2009 at 11:41 am


Hey Hillary
I must say that you seem very passionately about gay rights. I can say truthfully that I am not so passionate gays rights to get married. Like many people who believe that being gay is sentencing ones soul to hell, I too believe that there is a price to be paid for such an act. As it is stated in leviticus believers of the bible and God are more likely to object to the act of gays getting married. However I do believe that it will happen starting at the source of wher it was first made acceptable to be gay. I believe that the constitution has created a way of life for us Americans; but I also believe that the constitution has been the main cause of many Americans to engage in a certain habit and the refers to the constitution for the rights to do whatever it is that the are doing. With that said I believe that no one should be free to do as he or she pleases. If that is the case what will the world be when people strart enforcing their rights to do as they wish.



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Bill

posted December 4, 2009 at 11:55 am


Danny,
The fact that you do not consider Apartheid (the process of creating ‘separate’ classes of citizens and laws pertaining to certain citizens in an attempt to keep them separate from the rest of society) a crime of humanity excludes you from any further input on this issue. For you are a bigot.
Look up the definition. You are a bigot.
The fact that it is ‘just the gays’ that you have bigoted feelings about does not make it any less vile and disgusting.
The Supreme COurt of the United States has ALREADY RULED that marriage is, in fact, a fundamental human right. Look it up.
And what that means, Danny, is that if it is a right for YOU, it is a right for ME. Your ‘one of my best friends is gay’ line is just that. A LINE.
Go tell your gay friend to his face that you do not believe that he is equal to you. And then see how your friendship develops.
You see, dude, there simply exists NO reconciliation for treating ‘certain human beings’ differently under the law. It is HETEROSEXUALS who are behaving immorally here. And you know it.
Me marrying my partner of 15 years is simply NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
And the fact that you think that it is only PORVES that you feel you are better than gay people.
So, Danny, give me a break. Your immorality is ugly. It is vile. And it is causing REAL people REAL pain and REAL damage in their lives and their ability to protect their families.
Again, Danny – MORALITY INDEED.



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Thom Hunter

posted December 4, 2009 at 6:28 pm


I think it’s odd that just because something wasn’t extended, someone trots out the old “they’re coming to get you” prose. This was not an exercise designed to be anti-gay. It’s pro-marriage as marriage is currently defined. I think your rhetoric is very much overblown. There is nothing wrong with protecting the institution of marriage. I’ve struggled with homosexuality all my life, but believe the Bible is very clear on sexuality and marriage. Obviously a number of Christians in New York exercised the right to express their personal beliefs. To equate that with the Nazi treatment of homosexuals is irresponsible.
Thom
http://thom-signsofastruggle.blogspot.com/



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Charles Cosimano

posted December 5, 2009 at 12:51 am


I have always disliked that little thing. If the purported speaker had actually said anything the Nazis would have come for him all the sooner. It reflects either an almost total and abysmal ignorance of what happened in Germany as the Nazis took power or serious delusions of personal grandeur.
I rather like the addition an old veteran put on it when he finished it by saying, “And then they came for us and we kicked their *****”
No, it is not your fault and there is really nothing you could have done to change it. It is foolish to feel guilt in such matters.



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Hillary Fields

posted December 5, 2009 at 8:48 am


Thom, I heartily, if respectfully, disagree. I believe that to push the Christian agenda on all others (not even all Christians agree on your biblical interpretation!) in this country is repressive and does, indeed, begin to resemble the pogroms of the Nazis. I’m sorry you feel the need to suppress your sexuality, but I don’t see why you should impose that decision – and I do mean impose – on others. This country has a history of legislating civil rights to address wrongs built into the system – votes for women and African Americans, to name one – and so I don’t see this as merely an extension of the definition of marriage, but a clarification sorely needed to make sure some in our society are not excluded or persecuted. I’d answer more in depth, but I am heading out of town, so I hope others will take up this important issue with you.



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Hillary Fields

posted December 5, 2009 at 8:50 am


Charles: My great grandparents died in the camps. I don’t consider myself ignorant on this matter. But thanks for expiating my guilt.



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Thom Hunter

posted December 5, 2009 at 9:17 am


Hillary,
While I appreciate your expression of concern, my aim is not to suppress my sexuality at all, but to live according to what I believe is God’s will for me as expressed in His design and intention for His creation. I don’t condemn those who come to a different conclusion in their study of Scripture. This is a very difficult issue for many, many people and I am not one of those who goes around heaping hurt. I personally believe that change comes from the Holy Spirit, not from the pressures of those who judge. There are many, like me, who seek from God a clear picture. We too are people. I don’t push an agenda, I just recognize that He does respond.
The arguments can be endless on this issue. Women and blacks of course are women and blacks as created in the image of God and should always have been recognized as equal to men and men of any color. Obviously, where we differ is on whether or not living as a homosexual is a choice, whereas gender and color are not. I’m not sure what your biblical interpretation is, as you did not indicate a personal interpretation. My study of scripture tells me that those who live as homosexuals do so as a choice. Choices often contain both gain and limitation. Marriage is not one of those gains. This is clear in the Bible. We can’t just change it to pursue personal happiness.
Thom



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Lisa

posted December 7, 2009 at 2:08 pm


I tell you, if you don’t change your ways and quit worrying about getting married to the same sex and start reading the BIBLE and going by GODS laws our NATION is fixing to fall and your children and grandchildren will be living in poverty and then maybe you will be worried about where their next meal is coming from



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interpreter

posted December 9, 2009 at 3:13 pm


Gay marriage has not been passed by the voters in any state yet. After 30-something failures, you would think the gays would give up.



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