Bernard Jordan goes by several titles: Bishop, Pastor, Prophet. In more than two decades of ministry, Jordan has claimed to foretell major world events, including Hurricane Katrina. Jordan is also known for his influence on "Reverend Run" of the rap group RUN-DMC--Reverend Run found religion and was ordained through Jordan's ministry.

In Jordan's latest book, the best-selling "The Laws of Thinking," he teaches that people who tap into the divine power of our minds have total control over their lives and the world around them. Jordan recently spoke about these laws with Beliefnet.
Listen to Bishop Jordan:
'You Have the Potential to Be God'
Serving God with Money

Your book is "The Laws of Thinking." Could you briefly describe the laws?

"The Laws of Thinking" is [about] 20 secrets to using the divine power of your mind to manifest prosperity. I’ve taken the principles that have helped my life to become empowered, to become strengthened. We began teaching it to people and finding people coming out of homelessness, getting back on their feet, becoming entrepreneurs, purchasing their own homes, getting off of welfare.

Could you tell us one of the success stories?      

Reverend Run from Run-DMC came to our church bankrupt. Was at the end of his career. Took him and mentored him and brought him through these same principles. And today, we see his family on "Run’s House" [on] MTV. All of that happened through working these principles out of the laws of thinking.
He came to us with the strings out of his sneakers, got saved. Then turned around after he got saved, sat in the front row with a big family Bible reading the Word of God. Reverend Run knows this book, "The Laws of Thinking," backwards and forward. And after that, he became an usher in the church. People couldn’t believe it. After that, he became a deacon in the church. Then years after that, I made him a minister. And when he became a minister the industry laughed. They thought it was a hoax. Reverend Run a minister. Yeah, right.
He kept on, and I taught him these principles until the point was that he’d get a sneaker line that had been successful. He became the president of Run Athletics. Now he has a reality show with a collar on his neck.
Are there ways in which you differ from the message of “The Secret”?
I believe "The Secret" has a message that is very impacting, and it brings people in on the ground level. But what "The Laws of Thinking" does, it put a lot of scriptures around it. God is all through it. The Bible says, in Proverbs 23:7, “As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.” So, you are your thoughts. That is the law of attraction. I don’t see it as something that’s New Age. I see it as something that is biblical.
You basically say that each person has divine power to create what they desire in the world, and that when that power switches on, “You become God.” Do you think that’s the core message of the Bible or of Jesus?
Most definitely. In Psalms 82:6, the Bible says, “I have said ye are gods. And all of you are children of the Most High.” In Exodus 7:1, God said unto Moses, “See, I have made you a god unto Pharaoh.” And so, before Moses could even be a deliverer of the children of Israel, he had to know himself that he was a god.
You also say in other places, “You,” that is the reader, “are co-equal with God.” A lot of people would say that it’s not right to think of oneself as God, but rather as God’s creation.
'You Have the Potential to Be God'
In John 10:30, Jesus said, “I and my Father are one.” And then, in verse 34, “Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "Ye are gods?"' And if He called them gods unto whom the scripture has come, then the scripture cannot be broken.” So even Jesus came preaching, “Ye are gods.” And in Genesis 1:26, the Bible says, “God created man in His own image and after His likeness.”
What I say to people is--Dogs beget what?
And cats beget?
And monkeys beget--?
And God begets--?
Oh. Gods.
Oh, my goodness, did you really say that? Because when God made man, he made man after himself. We are created in his image and in his likeness. So, we are co-creators with our Heavenly Father. If he himself did not create more creators, then he Himself is no creator. You have the potential to be everything God is. You can begin to create. You can begin to know.
But the first revelation you’ve got to do is move away from limitation and realize that you are not your body. See, many of us have been hypnotized in body consciousness. And because we think we are our body, we forget that we are spirit.
 In many parts of the book you urge readers to say, “I AM this,” or “I AM that,” drawing from the burning bush scene in Exodus. For example, you say that a person should say, “I AM a millionaire,” meaning you’re destined to make a lot of money. How do you understand the meaning of “I AM?”
When Moses began to say, “What is your name?” [God] said, “My name is I Am that I Am.” So when we begin to understand that I Am is the name of God, the greatness of God, He has given you His name. We tell people the Bible says, “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain.” [God’s]  name is I Am. So, when you say “I am sick,” you have just taken his name in vain, because “I Am” is not sick.
When you say, “I am poor,” you have just taken His name in vain. Because God is not poor. “I Am” is not poor.
See, the key here is that it is His name, not your name; and you must connect His name with the right truth about God’s self.
In one part of the book you say God wants you to have a Gulfstream jet. One could understand why God would want you to be a music star and use that power for good. But if you could get anywhere just by flying American Airlines and give the money for the jet to the poor, why would God want you specifically to own things?

When I was saying that God wants you to have a Gulfstream Jet, we’re looking at a person that can maximize their time. If you were an individual that was making $25 or $30,000 an hour, then you waiting and going through security would be a waste of money. Because you have just wasted four hours in commercial airport when you could have really made that trip in one hour.

Now, giving to the poor. Poverty is also a state of consciousness--

You’re saying that poor people in Guatemala are just not thinking correctly?
I didn’t say they’re not thinking correctly. When we met a lot of people that were poor, because some of the things that they had assumed, some said that God did this to them. Well no, you’ve done it to yourself.
Well, wait a minute. “How would you say I’ve done this to myself? I don’t want to live like this.” Because you’ve never thought that you can live better. You’ve got to start thinking. You’ve got to start speaking positive.
How many times have you said, “I AM rich” ”today? Well, I didn’t say that at all, because I am poor. See? You’re saying the wrong thing. You’re allowing poverty to be your truth.
There are a lot of poor people in developing countries who do work really hard. They try to be optimistic and affirmative and work towards success. But there are structures in place where it’s almost impossible to get ahead.
I know it. I’ve been to South Africa. I’ve been to Swaziland. I’ve preached in Ghana. I’ve preached in Guyana. And I’m telling you these same principles work. I have an individual right now in Guyana, South America. He started hearing my teachings on the laws of thinking. He saw these principles at work in his life and started doing things that he did not even believe he can do himself. He’s now taking over properties in his own country. He goes around saying, “I am the Donald Trump of Guyana.”
Another man, there’s a pastor in Guyana that I’ve done work with. His name is Pastor Henry Brown. [He] took these principles that I was teaching, went back, started a church. Built a church from the ground up--the only church in the country with air conditioning.
And why did he do that? He did that in consciousness. Because he refused to believe anything else. And then he turned around and opened up a school. We at that time donated 20 computers to his school, not because he asked us but because we felt led to do it. He’s the only school in that country that has computers.
Now, that’s a place where structure has been in place, and designed for failure. But, these are people that choose not to believe in the structure, but believe that their mind is the greatest thing on earth.

You say “money is equal with God.” We all understand that money is important, but many people would say that the pursuit of money leads to evil. How would you say the pursuit of money is different from greed?

Serving God with Money
Jesus says in Luke 16 and verse 8, round about 6--verse 8 to round about verse 13, “You cannot serve two masters, God and money.”
So Jesus called money a master. Somehow he put money on the same level that God is. We tell people you cannot serve God and money, but you must serve God with money. The way you can tell the difference between a person that’s using money incorrectly is how they give. Greed is wrong. But giving is the proof that I have conquered greed. You look at the good that a person does with money and it will reveal whether they’re into the abuse of money or in the right use of money.
Just think if you held your breath and saved it. What would happen to you?
You would die.
Exactly. Because your breath was not to be saved. It was to be given so that you can draw another breath.
Same thing with currency. That’s why we tell people never say you spend money, because when you spend it you end it. You circulate it. Money magnifies what you already are. So, money is a neutral force. Depending on whose hand it is in will reveal whether you are righteous or unrighteous.
There’s been a lot of criticism of "The Secret" in terms of health issues--the idea that if you think properly, if your mind is in the proper state, you can overcome a cancerous tumor. Do the laws of thinking in your book apply to health issues?
Most definitely. What we teach people is that the body has never been sick. The only thing that’s been sick is the mind. So, the mind pictures in the body what the mind has been feeling, what the mind has been conditioned with. Because nothing moves unless the mind moves it. We encourage people to go to the doctor. We encourage people to find out the diagnosis. But for a sickness or a disease to come into your body, a law had to be broken. Because you’re “dis-at-ease.” That’s why it’s disease.
And so, you find out what it is. Sometimes you’ve been eating wrong. Sometimes you’ve been putting poisons in your body. And you find out what that is and then you start working on the mind.
But there are people out there who eat really healthily and who jog every day and exercise, and who do practice your laws of thinking. And yet they still do get very seriously sick sometimes.
Most definitely. And that’s when they have to do that work in their mind.
Even myself, I deal with health issues. And I have to do a work on my mind with that at times to begin to manage my situation, and to bring myself into alignment so that I begin to know that I am healed. I am well.

I had a sister-in-law that had a tumor. It’s funny that you brought that up. She kept saying she was healed. But then, she went to a "naturepathic" doctor, he changed her diet and got [her] totally on herbs. And those tumors passed out naturally. And then she had children right after that.

So, we’ve seen these kind of miracles. We’ve seen people recover from cancer situations, and people that have had all kinds of different illnesses and come back through operating with the right type of eating and diet, you know, getting in alignment with nature. And then at the same time, getting their mind straight.

You are spirit. And if you start working it, it will work for you.

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