Barack Obama is offering a candid look at his marriage to Michelle Obama, admitting that he believes he has benefited far more from their relationship than she has.

The former president made the comments in a new interview with People magazine as the couple celebrated the opening of the Obama Presidential Center in Chicago. Their conversation also comes after months of public speculation about their marriage, rumors the couple has repeatedly dismissed.

“I don’t know if it’s been an equal partnership,” Obama, 64, told People. “But it’s worked out for me pretty well. I’ve gotten more out of it than she has. For her it’s probably more of a mixed bag.”

He went on to explain why he feels that way, saying, “Just being with her made me better, and she still does. And that she would give our kids a foundation that would pay off for them — and that’s in fact what’s happened.”

Michelle Obama quickly pushed back on her husband’s assessment, insisting he was simply doing what he has always done—giving credit to others instead of himself.

“My husband is always thinking about reflecting the light on other people,” she said.

The Obamas first met in 1989 while working at a Chicago law firm and married in 1992. They have two daughters, Malia and Sasha. Since leaving the White House, both have written bestselling memoirs, launched a media company, and continue leading the Obama Foundation.

The interview also revisits the challenges they’ve faced over the years. Earlier this year, Barack Obama acknowledged that his continued involvement in politics has created “genuine tension” in their marriage, saying Michelle would rather see him “easing up and spending more time with her, enjoying what remains of our lives.”

Those comments, along with Michelle’s decision to skip several high-profile public events, fueled months of divorce rumors. However, Michelle addressed the speculation directly on her podcast last year, saying there “hasn’t been one moment” when she considered leaving her husband.

She has acknowledged that their marriage has experienced “really hard times,” particularly while raising young daughters during their years in the White House, but said those challenges never outweighed their commitment to one another.

Reflecting on what life might have looked like had she never met Barack, Michelle said she still believes she would have had “a beautiful life” in her hometown of Chicago—but one that “would have been smaller.”

She also described her husband as her “ballast” through every season of life.

“However hard it’s been, the ups and downs, he’s got me,” she said.

Barack echoed that sentiment, saying Michelle has remained his steady source of support throughout their marriage.

“And she grounds and anchors me,” he said. “It’s worked out alright.”

Their latest reflections paint a picture of a marriage marked by sacrifice, mutual admiration, and an honest acknowledgment that even long-lasting relationships require hard work—while offering another public response to the rumors that have surrounded them in recent months.