Lynn v. Sekulow

Lynn v. Sekulow


How About Some Tolerance?

posted by Rev. Barry W. Lynn

Jay,

You explained your legal argument (I still don’t believe it’s
a winning one), but you fail to address the broader issue. That is, why can’t
Americans be tolerant enough to respect the rights of all, whether they agree with them
or not?

So far, when it comes to the so-called “Mosque at Ground
Zero,” we have failed to show any tolerance.  And that’s a shame, particularly because, as Allen G. Breed
wrote for the Associated Press, “the Founding Fathers made sure the concept of
tolerance was woven into the very fabric of the young American republic.”

George Washington promised that we will have a government “which
to bigotry gives no sanction, to persecution no assistance.” Yet Muslim
Americans have been made to feel like second-class citizens and have been
attacked simply for wanting to practice their faith, which I mentioned on Al
Jazeera
last week.

I can understand why this is such a sensitive and difficult
situation for some, but there is no justification for the way many Americans
have reacted to this Islamic Center in Lower Manhattan.

I’d like to see Americans come together and respect people from
all backgrounds.  I’ll leave you with a
thought from the Rev. Monty Knight, president of American’s United’s
Charleston, S.C. Chapter, who contributed an op-ed to the Post and Courier yesterday.

“My life has been enriched by relationships with people
different from myself, religiously or otherwise – enough, in fact, for me to conclude
that the surest way to rob any of us of our humanity is to pay too much
attention to how we have been labeled,” he said. “The First Amendment reflects
the highest and noblest vision of our great nation. And for many of us, at
least, that means we are most Christian when we understand, accept and respect
those who aren’t.”



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Gwyddion9

posted August 24, 2010 at 2:49 pm


Tolerance?
I’m sorry but from my own personal experience, conservative Christians are only tolerant when it suits their needs, their agenda, or for showing a positive public face. Other than this, my experience is that, in their minds, they, and they alone have ‘truth’ (yes, I know I made it a lower case “t” for those asking)and no one else does. In many ways they are exactly like the taliban in thought and operation, meaning that they alone should rule, dictate laws based on their interpreted beliefs. I realize that I’m coming across as a wet blanket but conservative Christians simply do not do something without getting something back or it suits their agenda.



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Catherine S.

posted August 24, 2010 at 4:47 pm


Are you kidding me “Rev” Barry Lynn–
Did you really say “Al Jazeera?” How can you even refer to the word ‘Constitution’ or ‘rights’ in the same paragraph or context as “Al Jazeera??”
Al Jazeera is the most liberal, biased, and inaccurate media garbage that comes out of the Middle East to promote discourse, disunity, and havoc in the Muslim world.
And in reference to the comment above; actually, Christians ARE the most tolerant people in America. Freedom of religion seems to extend far more and beyond to ANY religion OTHER than Christianity.
For instance, my husband is a career soldier in the U.S. Army, on his 3rd deployment in protecting the freedom’s of our country and specifically, Mr. Lynn’s freedom of speech under the 1st Amendment of our Constitution. But most disturbing and ironically, he remains persecuted for praying in Jesus’ Name, as do his Army Chaplain friends. Although its completely fine and acceptable for his Muslim counterparts to pray to “Allah”. Explain that one, Mr. Lynn!
The fact is, to plant a Mosque at Ground Zero is not only absolutely inappropriate and inflammatory, it sends a very clear, devastating, and negative message to the victims and family members of 911, and to the troops that have sacrificed their very lives to protect America, and to keep the freedoms therein. Its simply a Disgrace and slap in the face to Americans that truly care for our Country.
Why would any person who wants to better relations want or desire to make such a harsh statement at Ground Zero? To me, its not a first amendment right or a gesture to establish peaceful relations, but rather a silent move and destructive statement to America where Muslims will gather to remember (?) or maybe “worship” that very spot and location.
As for you Mr. Lynn–you should thank my husband, and the rest of the troops who continue to fight to maintain your freedom to be reckless and ignorant with your actions and speech.
Freedom costs Lives.
Catherine S.
Kingston Springs, TN



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Your Name

posted August 24, 2010 at 6:44 pm


People that abuse people cost live, no matter how they do it…
I don’t care if you prance it around or take it to bed with you… That kills the heart…
So, the cold hearted blonde who wants nothing to do but steal the husband away from the faithful wife, well that would be killing the wife in spirit…
And for those who do nothing but use people for all they are worth to give it to a materialistic what?
Ya you guessed it you used me for all that I was worth, and you guessed it, your going to get your karma!
C



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Charles Thomas

posted August 24, 2010 at 9:25 pm


“Christians ARE the most tolerant people in America.Freedom seems to extend far more and beyond to ANY religion OTHER than Christianity”
I have yet to see any Muslims or liberals calling for a halt to the construction of churches anywhere in the country,or mobs of people screaming religious and racial insults to Christians, or threatening Christians with vandalism and violence if they want to build a church in the neighborhood.
You say constructing a Muslim community center two blocks from Ground Zero is both a disgrace and a slap in the face to Americans who truly care for our country.
I am an American who truly cares for my country,and to me and many others, any legal organization which claims to be dedicated to upholding religious liberty yet attempts to restrict the rights of Muslims to practice their religion on thier own property is profoundly and shamelessly hypocritical.
It’s insult to both logic and the priciples upon which America is founded.
And this isn’t about 911 at all.
If so,then what do you make of the attempts in other parts of the country to shut down mosques and community centers. Is building a mosque or community center in California, Wisconsin or Tennessee also a slap in the face to the victims and survivors of 911?
You say that Christians are the most tolerant people in America.
Which Christians?
Those who define themselves as conservative evangelicals or fundamentalists certainly don’t seem to be tolerant at all.
I beg to differ.
In the last week alone I’ve been called a “Muslim” an “atheist”,”a traitor to the memory of the victims of 911″ and “a godless,left-wing bigot who hates Christianity” by other Christians, all because I’m willing to uphold First Amendment liberties for everyone.
Many conservative Christians that Muslims seek to take America over and make Sharia Law the supreme law of the land,yet many of the most influential leaders of conservative Christainity seem to have no problem with dominionists or reconstructionists who want to replace the Constitution with the legal and moral codes of the Old Testament.
What difference would it make if you lose your liberties in a country governed by radical Islam or radical Christianity?
I think the reason many so called Christians on the right hate Muslims is because they see in radical Islamists a reflection of themselves.



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Catherine

posted August 24, 2010 at 10:52 pm


Christians don’t hate muslims. This is really an issue of right vs. wrong. The Spirit of the Law says to refrain from doing wrong, and in this particular case, the Mosque should be erected elsewhere.
After all, what was the last documented statement the terrorist screamed before he crashed and burned the jet into the twin towers??
Oh thats right….it was “Allah Akbar”.
I rest my case. All the 2000+ World Trade Center victims, and over 6000+ “War on Terror” soldiers rest theirs.



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Alicia

posted August 24, 2010 at 11:25 pm


Catherine, blaming all Muslims for what a few Muslims did on 9/11 is like blaming all Jews for the Crucifixion. I bet you wouldn’t throw stones at Jewish kids and yell “Christ-killer” but you are doing the same thing by insisting that all Muslims are collectively guilty for 9/11. Collective punishment is wrong.



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Charles Thomas

posted August 25, 2010 at 1:23 am


I rest my case.All the 2000+ World Trade Center victims,and over 6000+ ‘War on Terror’ soldiers rest thiers.”
And US foreign policy is partly to blame.
Even conservatives like Patrick Buchanan believe that Osama Bin Laden declared war on America,not because of our religion,our freedoms and prosperity,nor because of our allegedly decadent culture.They attacked our country because of the massive US presence in the Middle East.
Millions of people in that part of the world regard our presence there as a sacriledge,an act of war against Islam,in much the same way millions of Americans would regard a massive Saudi presence in America as an act of war against our religion and culture.
According to Buchanan,”We are being attacked over here because we are over there.”
He is right.
The terrorists responsible for 911 will be punished in this world and the next for thier horrific crime against humanity,but so will those who cared nothing about capturing Osama Bin Laden and bringing him to justice.
Instead,they declared war on Iraq, even though no Iraqi ever attacked us,resulting in the deaths of more than 600,000 people who had absolutely nothing to do with 911.



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Catherine

posted August 25, 2010 at 8:34 am


I disagree Charles. What about the horrific crimes against Iraq’s own people by their own dictator, Sadam Hussain? Have you even spoken to any Iraqi’s yourself? Well, you may be surprised to find that most Iraqis to include high ranking Officers are happy to have the U.S. Military’s presence over there, and to physically see the reign of terror End against their own people, and subsequently enjoy democracy.
And FYI Alicia, I am not blaming ALL muslims for 911. I am blaming the select muslims that claim their fame of terror, and I am stating that to erect a Mosque in that location would be counter productive and insensitive.
Further, Jesus was, IS, and will always be Jewish, and I don’t believe the Jews killed him. By choosing to do nothing or choosing NOT to intervene and stop the murder of any innocent life, Pontius Pilate, the Roman Governor, placed Christ on the Cross. But moreover, Christ willingly chose the nails to make a way for us, and redemption of sin. There is no greater love..



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Alicia

posted August 25, 2010 at 10:08 am


Thanks, Catherine. Yes, Jesus was Jewish. And I believe that it was the Romans who killed him. But, the point I was making was about collective responsibility, not about that specific comparison. Islam was not responsible for what happened on 9/11, only a radical form of Islam which inspired the 9/11 hijackers.
As many, many people have asserted, we are doing Bin Laden’s work for him when we hold Islam as a whole responsible for 9/11. BTW, check out the clip from Jon Stewart’s program below about who may be funding the Cordoba House. I’m sure you will find it interesting.
Stewart connects the dots…brilliantly.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/08/evil-or-stupid.html



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Alicia

posted August 25, 2010 at 10:27 am

Grumpy Old Person

posted August 25, 2010 at 10:34 am


A clue for the clueless Catherine: “Allah Akbar” means ‘God is great’.
You have a problem with that?
You have a problem with non-Christians exercising their freedom of religion? Why is it only for “Christians” now?



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Your Name

posted August 25, 2010 at 2:19 pm


To me, Christ is God within…, or the power of God within… And why would I believe a person is a Christian, when they make the decision to invite God to come into their heart and say forgive me for everything that is against you… And why would I think that Jesus was the connection for that process, well for one, the Bible says so, and two… they first had animal sacrifices for the cleansing of their sins, and then as the Bible states, that He sent himself down in a form of a man to be crusified as the spotless lamb for the consequences of our sins, so we would not have to pay the penalty for them… A gift he gave us… So the connection that through Jesus we can be connected to the Holy Father above through his blood… End of story….. God is great…. and yes he loves each and everyone of us, and wants us to turn from our wicked ways…, even now… For people still sin, even when they are Christian’s so… We all have work to be done on us…., and through us….
So, I don’t have a problem with you exercising that God is great…
End of story…
For when you are putting God first is right in line with the Bible anyway… So, you can say and act like God is great all you want…C



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Lorna

posted August 25, 2010 at 4:19 pm


Lorna, The Holy Bible teachs us not to get into vain jaggling or quarrels. We All need to ask The Holy Spirit to teach us and give us the discernment for the times we are living in. The Word tells us that the very elect may be deceived If possible!! When we lean on our own understanding and not God”s we try to prove what We Think is right or wrong. If we truly KNOW JESUS and HIS REAL character HE DIDN”T form a band to fight the roman sholdiers, or to march aganst the Roman empire but instead was HE went about DOING HIS FATHER”S Business which was preaching the WORD of GOD, healing the sick and raising the dead, taking authority over and destroying the devil’s works. HE simply told the TRUTH, “NO man can come to THE FATHER but through HIM. JESUS taught, showed and shared HIS FATHER”S LOVE even to those who betrayed HIM. NO ONE TOOK HIS LIFE-HE GAVE IT!!! HE GAVE IT for whoever which means for whoever!!! HE said, IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS; MY SHEEP KNOW MY VOICE AND THE”LL FOLLOW NO OTHER. WELL if we’d stop being busy trying to prove right from wrong quiet ourselves we’ll hear HIS VOICE if not even the Elect might be DECEIVED which is what the devil loves and wants us to do. GOD HAS THE POWER to overthrow evil HE HAS,HE DOES, and HE WILL. HE IS EVEN NOW SEPERATING THE SHEEP (those that OBEY HIM) from the goats, those that won’t LISTEN AND OBEY HIM. Goverments rise and fall as men do and it WAS ALWAYS BECAUSE they did not LISTEN AND OBEY HIM! The story is OVER when HE SAYS IT”S OVER HE”S ALWAYS PROVEN THAT. WHEN AND ONLY IF WE HAVE THE LOVE CHRIST FOR EACH OTHER will we be HIS SHEEP. NO,we don’t have to love their sinfull ways but if we PRAY for one another WITH HIS LOVE HE”LL PROTECT US FROM ALL EVIL!!! We all know it don’t take eighteen stories of a building to worship GOD we aren’t stubid GOD DOES GIVE US DISCERNMENT But IF we BELEIVE



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Charles Thomas

posted August 25, 2010 at 8:51 pm


I think Franklin Graham’s idiotic comment that Muslims are BORN Muslim(a ludicrous idea now being echoed by many on the Christian Right)has taken the scapegoating of Muslims to a new low.
Graham apparently believes that Islam,like Original Sin,is transmitted from one generation to the next by the act of procreation.
Maybe I’m wrong,but the underlying assuption seems to be that if
the religion of Islam and its adherents are guilty of 911,and Muslims are Islamic by birth,then all Muslims everwhere must be guilty by virtue of the fact that they were born.



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Charles Thomas

posted August 26, 2010 at 1:37 am


The following comments made by Bryan Fischer of the AFA,one of many organizations with very close political and ideological ties to the ACLJ and other right-wing advocacy groups,leaves no doubt in my mind that this issue is NOT about sensitivity and respect for the victims of 911:
“Treason is the only crime identified in the Constitution.And this if for a good reason-no nation can survive if it does not punish those who are determined to destroy it from within.
Our enemy is authentic Islam and our enemies are devout Muslims who actually beleive in their holy scripture and and are determined to follow the sacred teachings of thier god.
Treason consists in adhering to such enemies or giving them aid or comfort.This is precisely why the mosque should not be built at Ground Zero,and why zoning commisions are well within thier rights to deny permits to build any more mosques in the United States.
There is no provision in the Constitution that says we must allow traitors to flourish in our midst as long as they happen to be religious.Religious trators are just as tratorous as the non-religious kind.
The bottom line is that the First Amendment does not provides no cover,no shelter,no excuse for treason.All this blather about religious liberty is just that-blather.The First Amendment,for devout Muslims in the U.S.,is nothing but a borrowed cloak of righeousness to conceal a heart of darkness.”
I actually agree in part with Mr.Fischer.There are probably countless Muslims in the U.S.who would like to turn America into an Islamic theocracy.
Mr.Fischer and his ideological comrades should know.
What Fischer says about Islam can also be said of his faith as well.



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DSJulian

posted August 26, 2010 at 4:12 am


Am I the only one on this forum that recognizes that this is a non issue? It’s not a mosque, it’s not at Ground Zero, and the relatives of the victims are not opposed to it.
So who is spearheading this groundswell of opposition that is diverting us away from the real issues at hand?
Follow the money… from 30 Rock to Saudi Arabia…



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Your Name

posted August 26, 2010 at 1:29 pm


It is not Ground Zero, then what is it….?
I believe that is what they call the sight of the 9/11 attack.
And as for a Mosque, is that not what the article is about..?
I just do not support religious beliefs which kill people without any explanation, other then the fact they choose to do it for their religion… If that is not a bunch of bull for mass murdering fools to do what they want to do, which is to find some excuse in hell to murder people around the world . They are what they are, murderers at large in the name of their religion.
CC



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mouseytalons

posted August 27, 2010 at 10:05 am


Hi All,
This is my first time posting to this blog, as until now, I have not felt I had a right to weigh in on the issues in this blog. I am pagan, this why I felt I had no right to respond.
I feel it would be helpful for you all to be given another point of view.
I believe we all need to respect ALL other faiths, Christians are NOT the only TRUE religion in the world. EVERY religion (belief system) has something valuable to add to our knowledge and understanding of our own.
I respectfully ask: Have ANY of you actually had a conversation with a muslim? I have with 2 muslims (1 current, 1 former). I would be more than happy to share with you what they so generously shared with me and my family.
1) Salam Bin Madi, a Saudi friend of mine, about 20 years ago was generous enough to read parts of his Koran to me. I will give you the english translation of what he read to me that applies here in MORE ways than one, so I emplore you, Listen to this PLEASE? It said: “You can have your faith, I can have my faith, but we can be friends.” I believe this applies to all faiths or it should. Please, I beg of you all, Try to learn about other faiths (belief systems) from those who practice them, before Judging them out of your own fears and predjudices.
Blessings.



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Dwayne Abraham

posted August 27, 2010 at 8:16 pm


I saw you on fox network you are a idiot you call yourself a rev!!!!



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butch

posted August 28, 2010 at 10:50 am


We as a country can no longer afford to be nice just for the sake of being nice.So much info on the Man behind the project has been uncovered that to condone it is insane.



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name, the Name above all names

posted August 29, 2010 at 6:09 am


The landing gear from one-a the Muslim-hijacked planes crashed into the building where they plan to build the Hamasque. That makes that site part of Ground Zero.



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Your Name

posted August 29, 2010 at 4:01 pm


So that would be almost like putting up a murdering flag to promote the activity of the event. Or, to show victory over the people which were killed… Which is quite the opposite of what it actually is, it is not a victory at all but a darkness of the mirror of the sould of how dark people can become in their own thinking of what is right and what is wrong…
So therefore, at that sight should be shown the complete opposite of the activity which killed the people… , which would be a place of light for all to see that victory prevails over murdering souls…
Hearts,
C



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Your Name

posted August 29, 2010 at 4:05 pm


soul-
The animating and vital principle in human beings, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
So, people whoever you are out there, when you innocent people for the fact that they are not your religion, would indeed be taking another person’s soul off the planet, and therefore giving way to darkness…
CC



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Your Name

posted August 29, 2010 at 4:06 pm


That would be kill innocent people….



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Your Name

posted August 29, 2010 at 4:08 pm


LOVE PEOPLE….> Remember……!



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Mr. Incrfedible, in Jesus' Name

posted August 29, 2010 at 5:15 pm


Grumpy Old Person says:
A clue for the clueless Catherine: “Allah Akbar” means ‘God is great’.
You have a problem with that?
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which “God”? THEIR “God,” not ours. Allah is not God.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus

posted August 29, 2010 at 5:17 pm


CORRECTION
Mr. Incrfedible —–> Mr. Incredible



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus -- the Name above all names

posted August 29, 2010 at 6:22 pm


“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus

Charles Thomas says:
I think Franklin Graham’s idiotic comment that Muslims are BORN Muslim(a ludicrous idea…
Mr. Incredible says:
Except that Muslims believe that they are born Muslim.
Islam says that the son of a Muslim is Muslim. No one is born Christian; they are born AGAIN Christian — that is, originally, Man walked with God, having been created in His Image. Then, Man created himself in his own image, having jumped from faith in God. This is why we must be born again. If we’re not, we remain a creation in our own image and, therefore, separated from God. Islam is nowhere near that. Muslims believe that they can perform their way to Heaven. Of course, they cannot. They cannot be good enough. The only passing grade is 100%. That’s impossible. They need God’s Grace in Christ.
Charles Thomas says:
Graham apparently believes that Islam,like Original Sin,is transmitted from one generation to the next by the act of procreation.
Mr. Incredible says:
Muslims believe that they are physically born Muslim. Christians are not physically born Christian. They must be born again by receiving, into the heart, the Spirit of God, through Christ Who is the ONLY Way to the Father.
Charles Thomas says:
Maybe I’m wrong…
Mr. Incredible says:
Well, so far, you are.
Charles Thomas says:
but the underlying assuption seems to be that if the religion of Islam and its adherents are guilty of 911,and Muslims are Islamic by birth,then all Muslims everwhere must be guilty by virtue of the fact that they were born.
Mr. Incredible says:
You must-a got that line of reasoning outta a Cracker Jack box.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus, says

posted August 29, 2010 at 6:29 pm


It looks as though we will not be hearing from HG who has said that he is “game” for the suggestion by David Q. Public that they ignore me.
In other words, they will be joining Bizarro Boris who also hiked up his skirt and ran from challenge.
As Martha Stewart says, “It’s a good thing!”

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD OVER THE HILLS AND THROUGH THE VALLEYS!



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus the ONLY Way to the Father

posted August 29, 2010 at 6:46 pm


mouseytalons says:
I believe we all need to respect ALL other faiths…
Mr. Incredible says:
So, YOU believe that those of us who are born again should take what Jesus said — that is, that He is the ONLY Way to the Father — as a suggest deny Jesus, as Peter did.
I gotta news bulletin for you: IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN. Film at eleven.
mouseytalons says:
Christians are NOT the only TRUE religion in the world.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Who says?
mouseytalons says:
They said EVERY religion (belief system) has something valuable to add to our knowledge and understanding of our own.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Who says, and how does he know?
mouseytalons says:
Have ANY of you actually had a conversation with a muslim?
Mr. Incredible says:
Yes.
mouseytalons says:
I have with 2 muslims (1 current, 1 former). I would be more than happy to share with you what they so generously shared with me and my family.
1) Salam Bin Madi, a Saudi friend of mine, about 20 years ago was generous enough to read parts of his Koran to me. I will give you the english translation of what he read to me that applies here in MORE ways than one, so I emplore you, Listen to this PLEASE? It said: “You can have your faith, I can have my faith, but we can be friends.” I believe this applies to all faiths or it should.
Mr. Incredible says:
In other words, the Word of God, Which says that we should have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, is wrong?
mouseytalons says:
Try to learn about other faiths (belief systems) from those who practice them, before Judging them out of your own fears and predjudices.
Mr. Incredible says:
The Word of God says that those who are born again should “judge Righteous judgment” — that is, according to the Word of God. What do I do with that? Do what YOU say, or do what the Word of God says?
mouseytalons says:
Blessings.
Mr. Incredible asks:
To “Bless” is to invoke the Goodness and Favor of God. Are you invoking the Goodness and Favor of God?

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD OVER THE HILLS AND THROUGH THE VALLEYS!



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name, the Name of love all names

posted August 29, 2010 at 7:12 pm


Charles Thomas says:
I have yet to see any Muslims or liberals calling for a halt to the construction of churches anywhere in the country…
Mr. Incredible says:
Nobody is calling for stopping the construction of the Hamasque. We are calling on them to build it elsewhere.
Charles Thomas says:
…or mobs of people screaming religious and racial insults to Christians…
Mr. Incredible says:
There are atheists and other secularists in this very blog who “scream” insults at Christians and Christianity.
Charles Thomas says:
… or threatening Christians with vandalism and violence if they want to build a church in the neighborhood.
Mr. Incredible says:
That’s cuz Christians haven’t flown airplanes into their houses, screaming, “Allah Akbar!” and killing thousands.
Charles Thomas says:
You say constructing a Muslim community center two blocks from Ground Zero is both a disgrace and a slap in the face to Americans who truly care for our country.
Mr. Incredible says:
Muslims should be sensitive to that. They are not.
Charles Thomas says:
I am an American who truly cares for my country,and to me and many others, any legal organization which claims to be dedicated to upholding religious liberty yet attempts to restrict the rights of Muslims to practice their religion on thier own property is profoundly and shamelessly hypocritical.
Mr. Incredible says:
What about “Nobody is trying to restrict ‘religious’ liberty” don’t you understand? This isn’t about restricting “religious” liberty, rather about insensitivity, disrespect and discourtesy, the same insensitivity, disrespect and discourtesy alleged by Civil Rights leaders about the Glenn Beck rally yesterday.
Charles Thomas says:
It’s insult to both logic and the priciples upon which America is founded.
Mr. Incredible asks:
You mean that building permits are automatic???
Charles Thomas says:
And this isn’t about 911 all.
Mr. Incredible says:
Landing gear of one-a the jetliners went through the building on that site. That makes it part of Ground Zero and, thus, part of 9/11.
Charles Thomas says:
If so,then what do you make of the attempts in other parts of the country to shut down mosques and community centers. Is building a mosque or community center in California, Wisconsin or Tennessee also a slap in the face to the victims and survivors of 911?
Mr. Incredible says:
Could be.
Charles Thomas says:
You say that Christians are the most tolerant people in America.
Which Christians?
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which Christians are not?
Charles Thomas says:
Those who define themselves as conservative evangelicals or fundamentalists certainly don’t seem to be tolerant at all.
Mr. Incredible says:
Jesus was conservative evangelical — fundamentalist. Those who are born again have the mind of Christ.
Charles Thomas says:
In the last week alone I’ve been called a “Muslim” an “atheist”,”a traitor to the memory of the victims of 911″ and “a godless,left-wing bigot who hates Christianity” by other Christians, all because I’m willing to uphold First Amendment liberties for everyone.
Mr. Incredible asks:
If you’re not any of those things, what’s your beef?
I’ve been called many things here, and, through Christ, they don’t land.
Charles Thomas says:
Many conservative Christians that Muslims seek to take America over and make Sharia Law the supreme law of the land…
Mr. Incredible says:
The imam of the Hamasque says that the United States should be under sharia law.
Charles Thomas says:
…yet many of the most influential leaders of conservative Christainity seem to have no problem with dominionists or reconstructionists who want to replace the Constitution with the legal and moral codes of the Old Testament.
Mr. Incredible says:
Provide us the links to the sites where “dominionists” and “reconstructionists” say they wanna replace the Constitution with the legal and Moral codes of the Old Testament.
The fact is that that does not constitute vast majority Christian opinion. What you would like to leave everybody with the impression — that we wanna replace the Constitution with the legal and Moral codes of the Old Testament — that ALL Christians wanna do this. It is, at most, an insignificant few.
Charles Thomas asks:
What difference would it make if you lose your liberties in a country governed by radical Islam or radical Christianity?
Mr. Incredible asks:
You don’t know??? 1 Corinthians 2:14.
Charles Thomas says:
I think the reason many so called Christians on the right hate Muslims is because they see in radical Islamists a reflection of themselves.
Mr. Incredible says:
We don’t hate Muslims. We love all, just as God loves all. God won’t save all, and we know that. God won’t save those who reject Him. Christ says that few will find the gate.

JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who says "keep My saying"

posted August 29, 2010 at 10:40 pm


mouseytalons says:
I am pagan, this why I felt I had no right to respond.
Mr. Incredible asks:
So, you changed. You chose to change. Interesting.
mouseytalons says:
I feel it would be helpful for you all to be given another point of view.
Mr. Incredible says:
How can you help me with a pagan’s point of view, except that it helps me to understand why, more than ever, I need to walk with Christ?
mouseytalons says:
I believe we all need to respect ALL other faiths…
Mr. Incredible says:
“Respect” in what way?
mouseytalons says:
… Christians are NOT the only TRUE religion in the world.
Mr. Incredible says:
A pagan WOULD believe that, but it is an incumbent upon me to believe that. As a matter of fact, God, through Christ, tells me just the opposite. Am I to believe you over God, through Christ??
mouseytalons says:
EVERY religion (belief system) has something valuable…
Mr. Incredible asks:
“Valuable,” according to whom?
mouseytalons says:
… to add to our knowledge and understanding of our own.
Mr. Incredible asks:
So, you advocate “pick’n'choose” “religion.” A cafeteria style. What, then, do I do about John 14:6??
We are not ignorant of the devices of the Devil. The world, of course, wants us to compromise. Dilute faith. What you think Jesus said about “lukewarm”?
So, we should mix hot and cold?? Where does God, through Christ, tell us to compromise with the world and still walk in agreement with God, through Christ? How do we compromise what we know to be Truth?? How do we accept another gospel and live according to God, through Christ?? Tell us how to compromise.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who makes the willing whole

posted August 29, 2010 at 10:49 pm


Charles Thomas says:
And US foreign policy is partly to blame…According to Buchanan,”We are being attacked over here because we are over there.”
He is right.
Mr. Incredible says:
The United States wasn’t in Iraq at the time of the WTC attack.
The United States wasn’t in Afghanistan at the time of the WTC attack.
If you think he’s right, then you must also believe that street gangs aren’t responsible for violence, rather that a police policy of presence in those neighborhoods is responsible for making the gangs violent. Of course, that’s ridiculous.

“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who is the True Light

posted August 30, 2010 at 2:40 am


CORRECTION
but it is an incumbent upon me — – > but it is not incumbent upon me



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name, the Name above all names

posted August 30, 2010 at 2:45 am


CORRECTION
as a suggest deny Jesus, as Peter did. — – > and deny Jesus, as Peter did?



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus

posted August 30, 2010 at 4:23 am


CCORRECTION
the Name of love all names ——> the Name above all names



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Charles Thomas

posted August 30, 2010 at 4:00 pm


“The United States wasn’t in Iraq at the time of the WTC attack.”
True.
But long before 9/11 the United States had been propping up whatever dictator or government in the Middle East it thought would protect American interests,regardless of the effect it had on the millions of people who live over there.
You know as well as I do, that if another country with a completely different religion and set of
values established an enourmous military presence here in America,you and millions of other Americans would righfully take to the streets in massive protests,claiming that our nation was being invaded by a hostile enemy.
Millions and millions of citizens over there feel the same way.
Once again I will say that Pat Buchanan is right.
“They are attacking us over here because we are over there.”
For a person who claims to be Christian,you certainly don’t seem to understand anything about human nature and what happens when people and governments violate the Golden Rule,do you?
I’ve heard people who support U.S. presence over there argue that the Golden Rule applies only to interpersonal relationships,not to governments and nations.What they really mean is that private citizens should be bound by moral principles and rules but governments should not;that those who control the machinery of government can do anyting they please without regard ethical principle and the effects this has on people everywhere.
Jeremiah Wright really isn’t too far off the mark.
Do you actually think God will bless America for following such an amoral philosophy?
America needs to stay out of the internal affairs of other countries for the same reason you want other countries to stay out of our affairs.
It’s really that simple.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who came in Grace and Truth

posted August 30, 2010 at 10:45 pm


Mr. Incredible says:
The United States wasn’t in Iraq at the time of the WTC attack.
Charles Thomas says:
True.
Mr. Incredible says:
Okay, maybe we’re getting somewhere now.
Charles Thomas says:
But long before 9/11 the United States had been propping up whatever dictator or government in the Middle East it thought would protect American interests…
Mr. Incredible says:
I forgot who said it, but America has no friends; it has interests. That’s the case with every country.
Charles Thomas says:
…regardless of the effect it had on the millions of people who live over there.
Mr. Incredible says:
That’s their perception. They, however, had no problem accepting American aid.
Charles Thomas says:
You know as well as I do, that if another country with a completely different religion and set of
values established an enourmous military presence here in America,you and millions of other Americans would righfully take to the streets in massive protests,claiming that our nation was being invaded by a hostile enemy.
Mr. Incredible says:
Do you think the Germans are happy that we won the war?
Do you think the Japanese are happy that we won the war?
Do you think the South Koreans are happy that we protected them?
Do you think the former Soviet Bloc countries are happy we stood up to the Soviet Union?
Would you like everybody else to enjoy the Freedom that we enjoy? Or would you like to stand back and let, for instance, South Korea fail and become like North Korea?
Do you like what the Taliban does to women in Afghanistan?
Do you have joyful dreams of the Taliban and Al Qaeda controlling Afghanistan again and using it as a base of terrorist operations against the West?
While we are not perfect, we are much better than countries like North Korea and Cuba and Iran. Don’t YOU think so? Shouldn’t we want a better life for them?
Charles Thomas says:
Millions and millions of citizens over there feel the same way.
Mr. Incredible asks:
How the Iraqis feel now that we’re leaving Iraq? They are worried for their lives.
Sure, while we were there, they wanted us out. Now that we’re leaving, they don’t want us to leave, now that they’re faced with an uncertain future. At least with us, they were moving in the right direction. They don’t know what direction they’re headed now. But you think they like that. Wonderful.
Charles Thomas says:
Once again I will say that Pat Buchanan is right.
“They are attacking us over here because we are over there.”
Mr. Incredible says:
Once again, I will say that both of you are wrong; we weren’t there during the WTC attacks.
Charles Thomas says:
For a person who claims to be Christian…
Mr. Incredible says:
I must please only One, and He isn’t you.
Charles Thomas says:
… you certainly don’t seem to understand anything about human nature…
Mr. Incredible translates that to say:

“Since your understanding of human nature doesn’t agree with mine, you must not understand human nature.”

Charles Thomas says:
…and what happens when people and governments violate the Golden Rule,do you?
Mr. Incredible says:
Tell us what, in context, the Golden Rule says. Give us the line of scriptural thought.
Charles Thomas says:
I’ve heard people who support U.S. presence over there argue that the Golden Rule applies only to interpersonal relationships,not to governments and nations.What they really mean is that private citizens should be bound by moral principles and rules but governments should not;that those who control the machinery of government can do anyting they please without regard ethical principle and the effects this has on people everywhere.
Mr. Incredible asks:
You’ve heard WHAT people? Who, specifically?
Now, a lotta people have a lotta ideas. Not all ideas are correct. So, if you’re listening to wrong ideas that support your wrong ideas, you’ll have the feeling that those ideas are correct.
Charles Thomas says:
Jeremiah Wright really isn’t too far off the mark.
Mr. Incredible says:
Well, we needn’t do any more calculations unaware YOU’RE coming from.
Charles Thomas says:
Do you actually think God will bless America for following such an amoral philosophy?
Mr. Incredible asks:
“Amoral,” according to whom? By what standard?
Charles Thomas says:
America needs to stay out of the internal affairs of other countries…
Mr. Incredible says:
The world is a community of nations. What members of the community do affects the lives of others.
If we, as a good country, don’t lead, our “friends” will be unable to depend on us. That makes for an unstable community.
Charles Thomas says:
…for the same reason you want other countries to stay out of our affairs.
Mr. Incredible says:
In the community of nations, it doesn’t work that way.
My suggestion is that, this coming November, then, again, in November, 2012, you vote for somebody who will shrink America from the rest of the world. Letsee how that works out for ya.
Charles Thomas says:
It’s really that simple.
Mr. Incredible says:
Yours is not a new view, but it is still an ignorant view of international affairs and relations. The ignorance of that view hasn’t changed over the centuries.

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD OVER THE HILLS AND THROUGH THE VALLEYS !



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name

posted August 30, 2010 at 10:47 pm


CORRECTION
calculations unaware — – > calculations about where



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who is the True Light

posted August 30, 2010 at 10:55 pm


“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus

Where does the Constitution tell us that “religious” liberty includes the Freedom to put up a building free from codes and zoning laws.



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name

posted August 30, 2010 at 11:00 pm


Charles Thomas says:
…and what happens when people and governments violate the Golden Rule,do you?
Mr. Incredible asks:
Do I owe adherence to the Golden Rule to the Devil?

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD !



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus, the ONLY Way to the Father

posted August 30, 2010 at 11:08 pm


Charles Thomas says:
You know as well as I do, that if another country with a completely different religion and set of
values established an enourmous military presence here in America,you and millions of other Americans would righfully take to the streets in massive protests,claiming that our nation was being invaded by a hostile enemy.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Do you think that we should leave South Korea to the North Koreans?
Should we leave Israel to the dogs in Iran??
The natural disaster in Haiti — should we have just let them fend for themselves?
How ’bout Pakistan — they need help, but YOU say we should stay out of their internal affairs.
How ’bout our staying outta DR Congo and Rwanda? Internal affairs.
The oil leak — other nations with the equipment were ready to help us, but you say that they should also stay out of our internal affairs.
It’s a good thing that your thoughts won’t take hold to any great extent in this country.

AND THE LIGHT SHINETH IN DARKNESS; AND THE DARKNESS COMPREHENDED IT NOT.



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Charles Thomas

posted August 31, 2010 at 4:05 am


“Do you think the Germans are happy that we won the war?”
“Do you think the Japanese are happy that we won the war?”
Do you think we would have become involved in World War 2 if Japan, Germany,and Italy had never declared war on the United States?
Unlike the countries you mention,Iraq never declared war on America.
The U.S. was never in danger of an imminent attack from the military forces in Iraq.
No WMD’s were ever found.
Hundreds of thousands of people have since lost thier lives,and American taxpayers have lost more than 2 trillion dollars which could have been used for something more constructive than an ill-conceived military crusade in the Arab world.
And just because the American invasion of Iraq toppled a dictator doesn’t make the war right.
But the biggest joke of all is that the mastermind behind 9/11 has never been captured.
Face it,preventive war is a stupid and immoral concept.
Preventive war to depose a foreign regime that MIGHT threaten the United States is comparable to a police force which destoys an entire city in an effort to arrest and prosecute some of its citizens and leaders even BEFORE they’ve committed crimes.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who came in Grace and Truth

posted August 31, 2010 at 5:14 am


Mr. Incredible says:
Do you think the Germans are happy that we won the war?
Do you think the Japanese are happy that we won the war?
Charles Thomas says:
Do you think we would have become involved in World War 2 if Japan, Germany,and Italy had never declared war on the United States?
Mr. Incredible says:
Yes, cuz our friends and interests were in danger.
Charles Thomas says:
Unlike the countries you mention,Iraq never declared war on America.
Mr. Incredible says:
Irrelevant. Iraq proved to be ready to be a danger to her neighbors when she invaded Kuwait.
Charles Thomas says:
The U.S. was never in danger of an imminent attack from the military forces in Iraq.
Mr. Incredible says:
However, our friends and interests in Iraq’s neighbors were.
Anyway, Iraq attacked us. Remember the USS Stark, asail in the Persian Gulf some time ago?? Does an Exocet missile ring a bell??
Charles Thomas says:
No WMD’s were ever found.
Mr. Incredible says:
That doesn’t mean they weren’t there. The intelligence by all countries involved in pre-Iraq agree that there were WMDs in that country.
Charles Thomas says:
Hundreds of thousands of people have since lost thier lives…
Mr. Incredible says:
Thanks to a-Q.
Charles Thomas says:
… and American taxpayers have lost more than 2 trillion dollars which could have been used for something more constructive…
Mr. Incredible says:
We went with what we had before us at the time. What we had before us at the time told us that we needed to act at that time.
Charles Thomas says:
than an ill-conceived…
Mr. Incredible says:
According to YOU.
Charles Thomas says:
… military crusade in the Arab world.
Mr. Incredible says:
Somebody has to stand up. It may as well be us.
Charles Thomas says:
And just because the American invasion…
Mr. Incredible says:
Required, under the circumstances, especially of violations of UN charters.
Charles Thomas says:
of Iraq toppled a dictator doesn’t make the war right.
Mr. Incredible asks:
According to whom?
Charles Thomas says:
But the biggest joke of all is that the mastermind behind 9/11 has never been captured.
Mr. Incredible says:
Nobody ever caught Hitler, either. Nobody ever caught Stalin. Nobody ever caught Hirohito.
Charles Thomas says:
Face it,preventive war is a stupid and immoral concept.
Mr. Incredible asks:
According to whom?

AND THE LIGHT SHINETH IN DARKNESS; AND THE DARKNESS COMPREHENDED IT NOT.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 31, 2010 at 5:45 am


CORRECTION, in the Name of Jesus
especially of violations of UN charters — – > especially for violations of UN resolutions



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Charles Thomas

posted August 31, 2010 at 8:22 pm


“Should we leave Israel to the dogs in Iran?”
Should we risk American lives and billions of dollars of taxpayer money defending other countries when our own country is falling apart?
What makes THEIR security more important than own?
You want my personal opinion on the whole matter in that part of the world?
There will be no resolution to a conflict between opposing camps both of which claim without proof that God is on thier side.
They’ve been fighting each other for thousands of years and will continue to do so to the end of time.
“How ’bout Pakistan–they need help,but YOU say we should stay out of thier internal affairs.”
You want to help Pakistan where many of the people are Muslim,but you seek to persecute them here?
Funny.
“The natural disaster in Haiti–should we have just let them fend for themselves.”
“How ’bout our staying outta DR Congo and Rwanda.Internal affairs.”
These are certainly odd statements coming from someone whose political party thinks our government should not intervene to help millions of our own impoverished citizens.
YOU think the U.S.should come to the aid of the millions who are suffering in other countries,but want to let our own citizens fend
for themselves.
There’s nothing at all wrong with helping other people,but our own should come first.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus

posted September 8, 2010 at 6:30 pm


Mr. Incredible says:
Should we leave Israel to the dogs in Iran?
Charles Thomas says:
Should we risk American lives and billions of dollars of taxpayer money defending other countries when our own country is falling apart?
Mr. Incredible says:
You answer my question first.
Charles Thomas says:
What makes THEIR security more important than own?
Mr. Incredible says:
Israel is right in the middle of a pack of dogs. They are immediately vulnerable. We are not. In any case, we can do two things at once.
Charles Thomas says:
There will be no resolution to a conflict between opposing camps both of which claim without proof that God is on thier [sic] side.
Mr. Incredible says:
We’ll see on Judgment Day.
Charles Thomas says:
They’ve been fighting each other for thousands of years and will continue to do so to the end of time.
Mr. Incredible says:
We’ve been hearing your “do nothing” approach for ages. Doing nothing never works. Doing something is, sometimes, better than doing nothing.
Mr. Incredible says:
How ’bout Pakistan–they need help,but YOU say we should stay out of thier internal affairs.
Charles Thomas says:
You want to help Pakistan where many of the people are Muslim, but you seek to persecute them here?
Mr. Incredible says:
I seek to persecute no one. That doesn’t mean they don’t feel persecuted. That they feel persecuted is their perception. I’m not responsible for that.
Mr. Incredible says:
The natural disaster in Haiti–should we have just let them fend for themselves.
How ’bout our staying outta DR Congo and Rwanda.Internal affairs.
Charles Thomas says:
These are certainly odd statements coming from someone whose political party thinks our government should not intervene to help millions of our own impoverished citizens.
Mr. Incredible says:
Which party is that?
Charles Thomas says:
YOU think the U.S.should come to the aid of the millions who are suffering in other countries,but want to let our own citizens fend for themselves.
Mr. Incredible asks:
I do??
Charles Thomas says:
There’s nothing at all wrong with helping other people,but our own should come first.
Mr. Incredible says:
We can do both, where necessary.

“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus



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Ceci Warren

posted September 20, 2010 at 5:34 pm


Tolerance and patience are virtues most Americans have learned. We should be tolerant of people’s beliefs so long as they do not result in actions which are against the law. It shouldn’t matter that a candidate for the U.S. Senate dabbled in witchcraft, there is no religion test. I’d probably attend the community center before I’d vote for O’Dingdong, but no one is compelled to do either.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus

posted September 24, 2010 at 3:10 am


Ceci Warren says:
We should be tolerant of people’s beliefs…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Is that what Jesus taught when He said that He is the ONLY way to the Father??



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name

posted September 24, 2010 at 3:11 am


Ceci Warren says:
We should be tolerant of people’s beliefs…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Is that what Jesus taught when He said that He is the ONLY way to the Father??



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus, the ONLY Way to the Father

posted September 24, 2010 at 3:22 am


Ceci Warren says:
We should be tolerant of people’s beliefs…
Mr. Incredible says:
OK. You go first.



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CJ

posted October 5, 2010 at 2:00 pm


?”Had the people, during the Revolution, had a suspicion of any attempt to war against Christianity, that Revolution would have been strangled in its cradle… In this age, there can be no substitute for Christianity… That was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of …their descendants.”-Charles Carroll, 1854.



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Caroll Was Wrong

posted October 5, 2010 at 2:16 pm


The official 1797 Treaty with Tripoli says: “The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” The United States Senators read and ratified it. President John Adams read and signed it, and required all US citizens to observe it.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus, the Light of the world!

posted October 5, 2010 at 2:48 pm


October 5, 2010 2:16 PM
The official 1797 Treaty with Tripoli says: “The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” The United States Senators read and ratified it. President John Adams read and signed it, and required all US citizens to observe it.
Mr. Incredible says:
The Treaty bound the country, not individual citizens.
Since the Treaty, however, court decisions have said that is “Christian nation.”

AND THE LIGHT SHINETH IN DARKNESS; AND THE DARKNESS COMPREHENDED IT NOT.



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name

posted October 5, 2010 at 2:50 pm


CORRECTION
court decisions have said that is “Christian nation.” — – > court decisions have said that the United States is “Christian nation.”

“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who came in Grace and Truth!

posted October 5, 2010 at 2:52 pm


Caroll was correct!



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President John Adams

posted October 5, 2010 at 3:00 pm


“I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all others citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfil the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof”
Bound the country but not the people in it? Showing his usual flair for dumbness.



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name, the ONLY Name by which we must be saved!

posted October 5, 2010 at 3:00 pm


Ceci Warren says:
We should…
Mr. Incredible says:

VALUE JUDGMENT ALERT! VALUE JUDGMENT ALERT! VALUE JUDGMENT ALERT!

Ceci Warren says:
… be tolerant of people’s beliefs…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Should we be tolerant of the child molester’s beliefs?
So, of which “people’s beliefs” should we be tolerant?

JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus

posted October 5, 2010 at 3:08 pm


October 5, 2010 3:00 PM
President John Adams:”I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all others citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfil the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof”
Bound the country but not the people in it?
Mr. Incredible says:
Yes. The president could not then, nor cannot now, enjoin, nor require, ANY individual to do anything.
In any case, the Treaty was between countries.
Since then, however, court cases have said that the United States is a Christian nation.

AND THE LIGHT SHINETH IN DARKNESS; AND THE DARKNESS COMPREHENDED IT NOT.



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"THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE." -- Jesus

posted October 5, 2010 at 3:32 pm


“Providence has given our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as privilege and interest,
of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” — John Jay, Oct. 12, 1816, in a statement, The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry Johnston, America’s God and Country, William Federer, p.318



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JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD !

posted October 5, 2010 at 3:37 pm


“The real object of the [First A]mendment was not to continents, much less to advance, Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects.” — Justice Story [Story, "Commentaries," Volume III, page 728, §1871].
“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have lost the only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?” — Jefferson, “Notes on the State of Virginia” (Philadelphia: Matthew Carey, 1794), Query XVIII, page 237.
“[S]eventy years ago…Lemuel Bryant was my parish priest, and Joseph Cleverly my Latin schoolmaster. Lemuel was a jocular and liberal scholar and divine. Joseph a scholar and gentlemen… The parson and the pedagogue lived much together, but were eternally disputing about government and religion. One day when the schoolmaster had been more than commonly fanatical and declared ‘if he were a monarch, he would have but one religion in his dominions;” the parson coolly replied, ‘Cleverly! you would be the best man in the world if you have no religion.’” — John Adams to Jefferson, April 19, 1817; John Adams, “The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States,” Charles Francis Adams, Editor (Boston: Little, Brown & Co., 1856), Volume X, Page 254.
Adams, then:
“Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, ‘This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!!!’ But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell.” — John Adams to Jefferson.
John Jay described the Christianity practiced in America as being “enlightened.” — [William Jay, "The Life of John J." (New York: J. & J. Harper, 1833), page 80, from his "Charge to the Grand Jury of Ulster County" on September 9, 1777.]
John Quincy Adams called it “civilized.” — [John Quincy Adams, "An Oration Delivered before the Inhabitants of the Town of Newburyport at the Request on the Sixty First Anniversary of the Declaration Of Independence" (Newburyport: Charles Whipple, 1837), Page 17.]
John Adams called it “rational.” — [John Adams, "Works," Volume IX, page 121, in a speech to both houses of Congress, November 23, 1797.]
“The general principles upon which the fathers achieved independence were… the general principles of Christianity… I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature.” — John Adams, “Works,” Volume X, page 45-46, to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813.
“The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity, let the Blackguard Paine say what he will.” — John Adams, of Thomas Paine’s views; John Adams, “Works,” Volume III, page 421, diary entry for July 26, 1796.
“My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ and I cannot cavil or quibble away… the whole tenor of His conduct by which He sometimes positively asserted and at others countenances His disciples in asserting that he He was God.” — John Quincy Adams; John Adams and John Quincy Adams, “The Selected Writings of John and John Quincy Adams,” Adrian Koch and William Peden, editors (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1946), page 292, John Quincy Adams to John Adams, January 3, 1817.
“I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.” — Thomas Jefferson, “The Writings of Thomas Jefferson,” Albert Ellery Bergh, editor (Washington, DC: To Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Volume XIV, page 385, Charles Thomson on January 9, 1816.
“The attempt by the rulers of the nation [France] to destroy all religious opinion and to pervert a whole people to atheism is a phenomenon of profligacy… [T]o establish atheism on the ruins of Christianity [is] to deprive mankind of its best consolations and most animating hopes and to make a gloomy desert of the universe.” — Alexander Hamilton, “Papers,” Volume XXI, page 402-404, “The Stand No. III,” New York, April 7, 1798
“You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ… Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.” — George Washington, “Writings” (1932), Volume XV, page 55, from his speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs on May 12, 1779.
“[O]nly one adequate plan has ever appeared in the world, and that is the Christian dispensation.” — John Jay, “The Correspondents and Public Papers of John Jay,” Henry P. Johnson, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam’s Sons, 1893), Volume IV, page 52, 2 Lindley Murray on August 22, 1794.
“[T]he Christian religion, in its purity, is the basis, or rather the source of all genuine freedom and government… and I am persuaded that no civil government of a republican form can exist and be durable in which the principles of that religion have not a controlling influence.” — Noah Webster; K. Allen Snyder, “Defining Noah Webster: Mind and Morals in the Early Republic” (New York: University Press of America, 1990), Page 253, to James Madison on October 16, 1829.
“From the day of the Declaration, the people of the North American Union and of its constituent states were associated bodies of civilized men and Christians… They were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledged as the rules of their conduct. [John Quincy Adams, "Address Delivered at the Request of the Committee of Arrangements for Celebrating the Anniversary of Independence at the City of Washington on the Fourth of July 1821, Upon the Occasion of Reading the Declaration Of Independence" (Cambridge: Hilliard and Metcalf, 1821), page 28.] The Declaration of Independence cast off all the shackles of this dependency. The United States of America were no longer Colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians.” [John Quincy Adams, "An Oration... on... July 4, 1837," Page 18.]
“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet,’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal,’ we’re not Commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society, before it can be civilized or made free.” — John Adams; John Adams, “A Defense of the Constitution of Government of the United States Of America” (Philadelphia: William Young, 1797), Volume III, Page 217, from “The Right Constitution of the Commonwealth Examined,” Letter IV.
“The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code… laws is essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws. [John Quincy Adams, "Letters... to His Son," page 61.] Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of profane antiquity (secular history)… to find so broad, so complete and so solid basis for morality as this Decalogue lays down.” — John Quincy Adams; John Quincy Adams, “Letters… to His Son,” page 70-71.
“[T]he Ten Commandments… are the sum of the moral law.” John Witherspoon, signer of the Declaration of Independence; Witherspoon, “Works,” (1815), Volume IV, page 95, “Seasonable Advice to Young Persons,” Sermons XIX, February 21, 1762.
“Let it simply be asked, ‘Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert…?’” — George Washington; Washington, “Address… Preparatory to His Declination,” page 23
“All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from there despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.” — Noah Webster; Noah Webster, “History,” page 339, paragraph 53.
“Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society.” — George Washington; Washington, “Writings” (1932), Volume XXXV, page 416, to the Clergy of Different Denominations Residing in and Near the City of Philadelphia on March 3, 1797.
“No people ought to feel greater obligations to celebrate the goodness of the Great Disposer of Events and the Destiny of Nations than the people of the United States… And to the same Divine Author of every good and perfect gift we are indebted for all those privileges and advantages, religious as well as civil, which are so richly enjoyed in this favored land.” — James Madison; James D. Richardson, “A Compilation of the Messages and Papers of the Presidents, 1789-1897″ (Published by Authority of Congress, 1899), Volume I, page 561, March 4, 1815.
“I… recommended general and public return of praise and thanksgiving to Him from whose goodness these blessings descend. The most effectual means of securing the continuance of our civil and religious liberties, is always to remember with reverence and gratitude the source from which they flow.” — John Jay; William Jay, “The Life of John Jay: With Selections from His Correspondence and Miscellaneous Papers” (New York: J. and J. Harper, 1833), Volume I, page 457-458, to the Committee of the Corporation of the City of New York on June 29, 1826.
“[O]ur citizens should really understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament, or the Christian religion.” — Noah Webster; Noah Webster, “History of the United States” (New Haven: Durrie & Peck, 1832), page 6



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No Supernatural Nonsense

posted October 5, 2010 at 3:48 pm


Through his usual selective editing and overlong responses Mr. Idiot tries to obfuscate reason and common sense.
Mr. Idiot:
“Ceci Warren says:
… be tolerant of people’s beliefs…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Should we be tolerant of the child molester’s beliefs?
So, of which “people’s beliefs” should we be tolerant?
The actual quote was: “We should be tolerant of people’s beliefs so long as they do not result in actions which are against the law.”
Mr. Idiot shows off his extemely poor reading comprehension once again! His question was aready anwered.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who has overcome the world, and, through Him, we, too!

posted October 5, 2010 at 6:16 pm


Ceci Warren says:
… be tolerant of people’s beliefs…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Should we be tolerant of the child molester’s beliefs?
So, of which “people’s beliefs” should we be tolerant?
October 5, 2010 3:48 PM
The actual quote was:

“We should be tolerant of people’s beliefs so long as they do not result in actions which are against the law.”

Mr. Idiot shows off his extemely poor reading comprehension once again! His question was aready anwered.
Mr. Incredible says:
Except that my tailoring what he wrote does not change what he wrote. After all, he wrote that “we” should be tolerant of [all] people’s beliefs. Not including the rest of the statement does not add, nor take away, from that focus. It’s not necessary to quote an entire statement in order to get the meaning of the several assertions made within that statement. I may take them one at a time.
After you were born, they left the umbilical cord tied around your neck for several days before they cut it, didn’t they?



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who does not take His eye off the Righteous!

posted October 5, 2010 at 6:38 pm


“No Supernatural Nonsense”
Mr. Incredible says:
None that YOU can perceive, anyway. But, then, that’s what blindness, deafness and ignorance can do to you.



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God Approves of Child Molestation

posted October 8, 2010 at 1:55 pm


“…which aren’t against the law.” C.W.
“Should we be tolerant of the child molester’s beliefs?” Mr. Idiot
Oh yeah, I forgot, child molestation isn’t against Christain law.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus, the ONLY Way to the Father!

posted October 8, 2010 at 4:40 pm


October 8, 2010 1:55 PM
God Approves of Child Molestation
Mr. Incredible says:
Feel free to show us where, in the Word of God, He APPROVES of child molestation. Take all the time you think you need. It isn’t there, but, if you got the time while on welfare, loungin’ around your trailer park and throwin’ down wine coolers, waste all the time you want lookin’ for it.
October 8, 2010 1:55 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot, child molestation isn’t against Christain law.
Mr. Incredible says:
We know nothing about “Christain” law. If you’re arguing against “Christain” law, I agree with you that it — “Christain” law — is bad.



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Izabel Ea-kapu

posted October 20, 2010 at 7:00 pm


Has any of you commentary writers read the Koran? I have. English translation by Marmaduke Pickthall. Got it from the local library.
Surah 4, verse 34 contains a law to beat women. Quote: “As for those (women) from whom ye (men) fear rebellion, … scourge them.”
Why should we tolerate anything that belongs into the Dark Ages??? And isn’t there a law in America that forbids the beating of women?
Tolerance for tolerance’s sake is great stupidity.fludde PAPERS



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Mrs. Incredibly worried about our marriage despite Jesus's love

posted October 21, 2010 at 5:01 pm


Please Beliefnet bloggers, help save my marriage. Mr. (not very) Credible is spending waaay too much time posting his hurtful, anti-loving, anti-Christian meanderings. I think he’s off his meds, which you can all see just by the way he types – he has to repeat his moniker dozens of times per post. I’m not gettin’ enuff lovin’, what with him spending most of what’s supposed to be our quality time.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who is the True Light!

posted October 24, 2010 at 9:19 am


My “wife” will just have-ta get over it. Any-a you guys want her cuz I don’t.

JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !



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Previous Posts

Another Blog To Enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting LynnvSekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow: Faith and Justice  Happy Reading!

posted 11:26:38am Aug. 16, 2012 | read full post »

Another blog to enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting Lynn V. Sekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow's Faith and Justice Happy Reading!!!

posted 10:36:04am Jul. 06, 2012 | read full post »

More to Come
Barry,   It's hard to believe that we've been debating these constitutional issues for more than two years now in this space.  I have tremendous respect for you and wish you all the best in your new endeavors.   My friend, I'm sure we will continue to square off in other forums - on n

posted 4:52:22pm Dec. 02, 2010 | read full post »

Thanks for the Memories
Well Jay, the time has come for me to say goodbye. Note to people who are really happy about this: I'm not leaving the planet, just this blog.As I noted in a personal email, after much thought, I have decided to end my participation and contribution to Lynn v. Sekulow and will be doing some blogging

posted 12:24:43pm Nov. 21, 2010 | read full post »

President Obama: Does He Get It?
Barry,   I would not use that label to identify the President.  I will say, however, that President Obama continues to embrace and promote pro-abortion policies that many Americans strongly disagree with.   Take the outcome of the election - an unmistakable repudiation of the Preside

posted 11:46:49am Nov. 05, 2010 | read full post »




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