Lynn v. Sekulow

Lynn v. Sekulow


Ground Zero: No Place for a Mosque

posted by Jay Sekulow

Barry,

No one is advocating that mosques should not be built in New York City.  There are many just as there are churches, synagogues and other places of worship. What we’re saying, on behalf of our client – a NYC firefighter and first responder who lost 100 friends in the 9-11 attacks – is that this particular Ground Zero site is not appropriate for this mosque.

Tim Brown, our client, and millions of Americans believe this site is sacred, hallowed ground.  The landing gear of one of the hijacked planes crashed through the building.  This building should be landmarked, a move rejected by a NYC commission panel.  That’s why we have sued the NYC Landmarks Preservation Commission charging that the city violated its own policies and procedures in rejecting landmark status and exhibited “an arbitrary and capricious abuse of discretion and contrary to decades of administrative precedent.” 

Barry, I know you want to turn this into an issue about religious discrimination, but that is simply not the case.  In fact, our position is consistent with our defense of America’s sacrosanct First Amendment ideals. 

As a legal matter, we are asking that government, indeed, apply the law faithfully and without regard to religion. That principle serves as the basis for our suit against the commission, which, we believe, improperly considered the proposed religious use of the property in deciding not to grant the property landmark status.

In 2007, the same Landmarks Preservation Commission unanimously voted to grant landmark status to a nearly identical building, 23-25 Park Place, which is just one block away from the proposed mosque. Despite the fact that 45-47 Park Place is more historically significant – pieces of one of the hijacked planes crashed through the roof on Sept. 11 – the commission unanimously denied landmark status. The blatant double standard can be explained by the politically correct considerations surrounding the proposed religious use. That is unacceptable and a flagrant betrayal of the very religious agnosticism on the part of government that Mayor Bloomberg claims to embrace.

Second, this issue, as the mayor stated, is as much about private rights as it is the role of government. Landmarked or not, the owners of 45-47 Park Place have a right to practice Islam in a mosque at that location if they so choose. The U.S. Constitution guarantees the right to do and say many things that are offensive – indeed, that is the bedrock of our constitutional system – but well-intentioned people, nonetheless, often choose not to do or say such things out of a moral concern for others.

As the Anti-Defamation League eloquently wrote in its statement opposing the project, “ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right.”

Increasingly, Muslim groups and individuals are going on record saying that building the mosque at this site is like “rubbing salt in the wound.” 

And, 61% of New York State residents say the mosque should not be built there citing concerns about sensitivity for those affected by the attacks. 

Our legal challenge is unfolding as new revelations come to light about the project and the people behind it. 

It has now been revealed that the developer does not own, but rather leases from Con Edison, a public utility, one of the two parcels needed for the mosque project.  This fact creates a whole host of new legal questions and that will require the involvement of other public agencies, such as the Public Service Commission of New York State.  This revelation also raises important questions about whether those behind the project misled the public and New York officials in order to get approval. 

And, now we also discover that the U.S. State Department is sending Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who is behind the Ground Zero mosque, on a taxpayer-funded trip to the Muslim world to promote what the government calls fostering a “greater understanding” of Islam.  The move raises additional concerns about whether taxpayers may be helping him with the project’s $100 million fund-raising goal. 

The State Department calls Iman Rauf a “distinguished Muslim cleric.” Guess it depends on your definition of “distinguished.”  Imam Rauf has, on at least one occasion, refused to declare Hamas a terrorist organization and in the days following the tragic attacks of September 11th said the United States was “an accessory” to the crimes of 9-11. 

Barry, there are a lot of questions – not about our commitment to protecting First Amendment rights – questions about the project and the people behind it.

Our client is one of those private citizens who believes this project is an insult to the Sept. 11th  victims’ memory and their families. His right to express that view – to fight this development politically and by ensuring that administrative agencies follow their own precedents and the rule of law, and to speak with the chorus of others who find the Cordoba House mosque at Ground Zero inappropriate – represents the essence of a free democracy.

That right is not in tension with the First Amendment; it is the First Amendment.

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Antonio

posted August 10, 2010 at 4:54 pm


I was shocked when I read your article about the imam being sponsored by the U.S. State Department (Feisal Abdul Rauf)”… for a taxpayer-funded trip to the Muslim world to promote what the government calls fostering a “greater understanding” of Islam”.
Our government is sponsoring Muslim clerics now? What happened to the so-called wall of separation of church and state that some are so fond of invoking? I would think the anti-religious crowd would be up in arms about this! Where are they?
It seems that they are very selective on when they apply this – only when it’s convenient and supports their anti-christian views.
Antonio



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Ralph

posted August 10, 2010 at 6:29 pm


This opposition to the “Ground Zero mosque” is nothing more than blatant Islamophobia.
What about the opposition to the building of other mosques throughout the United States?
Are all of these sites “hallowed ground” also.
Shouldn’t the entire country of Iraq also be hallowed ground?
After all between 100 000 and 600 000 Iraqi men, women and children have died thanks to an illegal and immoral war waged by George Bush, based on outright lies and fabricated evidence.
And still the WMDs haven’t been found.
American hypocrisy at its best.



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Doc Riley

posted August 10, 2010 at 7:13 pm


Should this apply if the building in question was to be a Jewish Temple, a Catholic Cathedral, a Quaker Meeting House or a Protestant church? The Imam has also taken these trips during the Bush Admin. Our country has many outreach programs and in this day and age it appears that we need to spread out understanding or all peoples and religions. Tolerance and the rule of Law, great American values.



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Dace

posted August 10, 2010 at 9:29 pm


Why don’t we just make it illegal to be brown in America?



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Charles Thomas

posted August 10, 2010 at 10:20 pm


Opposition to the construction of this mosque is based on nothing more than bigotry and fear that Islam is out to conquer America.
If not,then how do you explain efforts to prevent the building of mosques in Tennesee and California?
Perhaps the ACLJ should also file suit to shut down the mosque in the Pentagon too,out of respect and sensitivity for the 184 people who lost thier lives there.
According to their mission statement,the “American Center for Law and Justice is a tax-exempt,not-for-profit,religious corporation… specifically dedicated to the ideal that religious freedom and freedom of speech are inalienable,God-given rights.The center’s purpose is to educate,promulgate,conciliate,and where necessary,litigate,to ensure that those rights are protected under the law.”
Mr Sekulow is a lawyer, so I know he’s not ignorant of the meaning of the term “inalienable rights”.
Inalienable rights are rights which are both universal and absolute.Such rights are in no way contingent on the laws, customs,or beliefs of a particular society or group,including the majority of New Yorkers or Americans whom the ACLJ claims opposes this mosque.
Yet Mr Sekulow has the gall to claim that prohibiting the construction of a house of worship because it offends someone is an expession of 1st amendment rights!
Mr Sekulow apparently believes in the right to violate rights.
A lawyer from an organization founded on the “ideal that religious freedom and freedom of speech are inalienable and God-given” wants to take what God has given to all people in the name of ‘sensitivity and respect’ for the feelings of another group of people.
Mr Sekulow obviously deserves the Hypocrite of the Year Award.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 11, 2010 at 1:31 am


Antonio says:
I was shocked when I read your article about the imam being sponsored by the U.S. State Department (Feisal Abdul Rauf)”… for a taxpayer-funded trip to the Muslim world to promote what the government calls fostering a “greater understanding” of Islam”.
Mr. Incredible says:
Shocked, but not surprised, by their hypocrisy.
Antonio says:
Our government is sponsoring Muslim clerics now?
Mr. Incredible says:
The important thing is that he’s not Christian. Heh.
Antonio says:
happened to the so-called wall of separation of church and state that some are so fond of invoking?
Mr. Incredible says:
It’s still there, but only for all things Christian. The Devil isn’t threatened by anything Muslim.
Antonio says:
I would think the anti-religious crowd would be up in arms about this!
Mr. Incredible says:
You would think.
Antonio asks:
Where are they?
Mr. Incredible says:
They will let you know where they are as soon as anything Christian comes up. It’s then that they will scream loud and clear.
Antonio says:
It seems that they are very selective on when they apply this – only when it’s convenient and supports their anti-christian views.
Mr. Incredible says:
This is what they call “intelligence.”
We think, Antonio, that you have a good handle on this.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 11, 2010 at 1:35 am


Charles Thomas says:
Mr Sekulow is a lawyer, so I know he’s not ignorant of the meaning of the term “inalienable rights”.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Don’t you people always say that the Declaration of Independence is not law??



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Mr. Incredible says:

posted August 11, 2010 at 1:44 am


Y’see, Antonio, the Godless want to destroy this country which, throughout history, has been the Devil’s pain in the neck. They and the Devil now see the country swingin’ to the Devil’s side. That’s why they welcome those who cheered wildly the destruction of WTC within spitting distance of Ground Zero. It’s despicable.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 11, 2010 at 1:53 am


Charles Thomas says:
Inalienable [sic] rights are rights which are both universal and absolute.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Who, according to Jefferson, gave us these Rights?
Do these “unalienable” Rights, alluded to in the Declaration of Independence, include the “Right” to build a mosque at that very spot, and not another?
We thought that you people always said that everybody has his own Morality.



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Mr. Incredible says:

posted August 11, 2010 at 2:06 am


Charles Thomas says that Jay wants to take away what Charles Thomas says are the “inalienable” Rights of Muslims to build that mosque so near Ground Zero that they can spit on it.
Did Charles Thomas intend to say that God gave them the building permit??? Why would God do that?? God doesn’t wanna promote “another gospel.” Does Charles Thomas say that Jesus was a “liar” when He said that He is the ONLY Way to the Father??



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 11, 2010 at 2:45 am


If the secularist fools could only see how stupid they look.
They say that the State should stay out of anything “religious.” And, yet, they want the State to approve the mosque to be built within spitting distance of Ground Zero.
You can’t find a better example of hypocrisy than that.



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Ms. Unbelevable

posted August 11, 2010 at 2:46 am


1st-stunned 2nd- disbelieve 3rd-ashamed.4th-suspicious 5th-contempt



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 11, 2010 at 2:50 am


Jay says:
…the developer does not own, but rather leases from Con Edison, a public utility…
Mr. Incredible says:
And, so, again, where’s the “separation of Church and State” crowd? Why no screams of, “Separation of Church and State!”
They’re hiding in the walls, in the sewers, in the gutters and in the ground until something “Christian” comes up.



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Charles Thomas

posted August 11, 2010 at 4:58 am


“Don’t you people always say that the Declaration of Independence is not law??”
It is true that the Declaration of Independence is not law,but the first amendment is,and the courts have an obligation to uphold it.
If anything,you’re the one taking the politically correct position many liberals take on issues dealing with controversial subjects like religion.Liberals counsel “sensitivity and respect”for the feelings of religious minorities.Who cares about an individuals’freedom of speech.
You make the equal but opposite mistake,but in the name of sensitivity to and respect for the feelings of the majority.Who cares about the religious liberty of an unpopular minority.Religious liberty is derived from majority consent according to Mr Incredible,not Nature or God.
“We thought that you people always said that everyone has his own Morality.”
The straw man you’ve erected in your head said that,not me.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 11, 2010 at 6:34 am


Mr. Incredible says:
Don’t you people always say that the Declaration of Independence is not law??
Charles Thomas says:
It is true that the Declaration of Independence is not law,but the first amendment is,and the courts have an obligation to uphold it.
Mr. Incredible says:
However, you referred to “inalienable” Rights, not the First Amendment, as the ruling principle, and neither “inalienable,” nor “unalienable,” Rights is in the Constitution.
Charles Thomas says:
If anything,you’re the one taking the politically correct position many liberals take on issues dealing with controversial subjects like religion.Liberals counsel “sensitivity and respect”for the feelings of religious minorities.Who cares about an individuals’freedom of speech.
Mr. Incredible says:
Nobody is stopping “religious” freedom. Nobody is stopping anybody’s Freedom of Speech. They are in our country, and they should respect the sensitivities of the people whose country this is. “When in Rome…” is simple courtesy.
Charles Thomas says:
You make the equal but opposite mistake,but in the name of sensitivity to and respect for the feelings of the majority.Who cares about the religious liberty of an unpopular minority.
Mr. Incredible says:
Nobody is interfering with the “religious” liberty of anybody. We’re not required to give them THAT land for their mosque.
Charles Thomas says:
Religious liberty is derived from majority consent according to Mr Incredible,not Nature or God.
Mr. Incredible says:
“Religious” liberty is recognized by the Constitution, asking the law by a majority of those with the authority to vote.
Mr. Incredible says:
We thought that you people always said that everyone has his own Morality.
Charles Thomas says:
The straw man you’ve erected in your head said that,not me.
Mr. Incredible says:
No strawman. The trend, today, continues toward the notion that everybody has his own Morality. That comes from the loose-as-cats Liberals.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 11, 2010 at 6:57 am


CORRECTION
asking the law by a majority — — > enacted into law by a majority



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Jimbino

posted August 11, 2010 at 9:50 am


There is no such thing as “sacrosanct” or “sacred.” “Hallowed” or “revered” maybe.
We rationalists have to put an end to this sanctifying of buildings and used cars and things like sex.



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Charles Thomas

posted August 11, 2010 at 2:47 pm


“If the secularist fools could only see how stupid they look.
They say that the should stay out of anything “religious”.And,yet,they want the State to approve the mosque to be built within spitting distance of Ground Zero.”
Within spitting distance of Ground Zero?
You can spit the length of two city blocks? Wow.that’s an impressive skill.Maybe you should join the circus or something.
Really now,if the Christianists could only see how foolish they look,claiming that the 1st amendment is only “one-directional”.A seperation exists,they say,but it works only one way:to prohibit the state from interfering with churches, but that churches and religious majorities are not prohibited from using the power of government to dictate where a religious minority can build a house of worship.



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HG

posted August 11, 2010 at 3:46 pm


Smelly Cat: “Jay says:…the developer does not own, but rather leases from Con Edison, a public utility…
Mr. Incredible says: And, so, again, where’s the “separation of Church and State” crowd?”
Part of the “separation between religion and government crowd” here. The fact that they don’t own the land, as was originally reported, could change the playing field if Con Ed is a government controlled entity or if they take government money imo.
However, a lawyer for the ACLJ, saying “This issue has nothing to do with religious freedom”, is not be pursuing that avenue; claiming instead, “the placement of the project at that location is inappropriate and inflammatory.”. A subjective, and legally boneless, interpretation.
Perhaps Smelly Cat will YouTube his talent of spitting two city blocks.



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HG

posted August 11, 2010 at 4:01 pm


Smelly Cat: “…this country which, throughout history, has been the Devil’s pain in the neck. They and the Devil now see the country swingin’ to the Devil’s side.”
The Devil isn’t real. You actually BELIEVE that nonsense, that The Devil is an actual supernatural being who vies with another supernatural being for control of the U.S.? Bwah-hah-hah! It’s funny, but it’s sad too.



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trog69Your Name

posted August 11, 2010 at 4:12 pm


ACLJ and their cohorts must explain why their objections to the NY mosque are somehow different from the objections to mosques throughout the country, from NY to California, by the same incoherent, bigoted, Tea Party mob.



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trog69Your Name

posted August 11, 2010 at 4:21 pm


I’d also like to know why Mr. “you people” Incredible hasn’t been outraged by the Christian Reconstructionist movement going on right here in the US, as well as globally? You do realize that, just as you point out how radical Muslims have declared that Sharia law must be the standard, Reconstructionists ( Sarah Palin was palling around with them right before her amusing VP candidacy.) also feel that Mosaic/biblical Old Testament laws must be enforced here in the US, and eventually worldwide. Death to heretics is just one of the tenets of their religious beliefs. Please feel free to show me wrong with evidence of your past outrage at the Christian radicals as proof of your consistency. Thanks.



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Charles Thomas

posted August 11, 2010 at 4:47 pm


“Permits should not be granted to build even one more mosque in the United States of America,let alone the monstrosity planned for Ground Zero.This is for one simple reason:each Islamic mosque is dedicated to the overthrow of the American government.Each one is a potential jihadist recruitment and training center, and determined to implement the ‘Grand Jihad’of which Andy McCarthy has written.
“Because of this subversive ideology,Muslims cannot claim religious freedom protections under the First Amendment.They are currently using First Amendment freedoms to make plans to make plans to destroy the First Amendment altogether.There is no such thing as freedom of religion in Islam,and it is sheer and utter folly for Americans to delude themselves into thinking otherwise.”
-Bryan Fischer,AFA radio host.
Muslims,every single one of them,want to use the First Amendement to ultimately destroy freedom of religion in America,so Americans should beat them to the punch by attacking the religious freedom of muslims.
Wecome to the new crusade.
Seems to me that Bryan Fischer and the Islamic fanatics have much in common.
If I had the authority, I would round up the fanatics of both Christianity and Islam and confine them to some isolated place on the globe,to let them kill each other over which group gets to rule the world.



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Charles Thomas

posted August 11, 2010 at 6:32 pm


Bryan Fischer along with his fellow reconstructionists claim that there is no such a thing as religious liberty in Islam. But the same can be said of Christianity as interpreted by dominionists.
“Christians have an obligation,a mandate,a commission,a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ-to have dominion in the civic structures,just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.
But it is dominion we are after.Not just a voice.
It is dominion we are after.Not just influence.
It is dominion we are after.Not just equal time.
It is dominion we are after.
World conquest.That’s what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish…If Jesus Christ is indeed Lord,as the Bible says,and our commission is to bring the land into subjection to His Lordship…then all our activities,all our witnessing,all our preaching,all our craftsmanship,all our stewardship, and all our political action will aim at nothing short of that sacred purpose…Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land–of men,families,institutions,bureaucracies,courts,and governments for the Kingdom of Christ.It is to reinstitute the authority of God’s Word as supreme over all judgements,over all legislation,over all declarations,constitutions,and confederations.”
–George Grant,The Changing of the Guard,Dominion Press.
Because of this subversive ideology,Christians cannot claim religious freedom protections under the First Amendment.They are currently using First Amendment freedoms to make plans to destroy the First Amendment altogther.There is no such thing as freedom of religion in Christianity as understood and practiced by fundamentalists, and it is sheer and utter folly for Americans to think otherwise.



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HG

posted August 11, 2010 at 7:12 pm


Interesting comment Charles Thomas, and a fascinating quotation. The similarities between the fundamentalist religious groups are striking. Neither the Islamic or Christian faction would allow the religious freedom we have in America if they were allowed to rewrite the Constitution.
Freedom of religious belief is an American right because of the Constitution, which allows erroneous belief but not unlawful action. Among those claiming to know God’s Will there is considerable difference of opinion, but the only ones taking any action are human.



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Charles Thomas

posted August 11, 2010 at 7:16 pm


Fanatics are pretty much the same the world over.All they see is an ideal world in some platonic heaven which they and their fellow ideologues want to realize on this earth,in the great hear and now,apparently oblivious to the effect this would have on the lives and liberties of billions of people who believe otherwise.
They just can’t accept the fact that we live in a pluralistic world.
Any attempt to make the world adhere to only one religion or ideology will necessarily entail the elimination of all other religions and ideologies.
Good luck with your war against reality.



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virginia.w.mccarthy@gmail.com

posted August 11, 2010 at 10:54 pm


Mayor Bloomberg should be shamed of himself for supporting the plan to build a mosque at Ground Zero. He bought his way to a 3rd term as mayor. Not one person in New York nor in this country should tolerate what the liberals are allowing to go forward under the guise of freedom of religion. And by the way, do Americans realize that the U.S. State Department is funding the travel of the future Ground Zero iman to travel around the world trying to obtain funds to build this mosque? This is what this president is doing. God bless this country as we are under attack in ways millions of Americans have no idea to what extent this is happending.



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Rich

posted August 12, 2010 at 1:48 am


Virginia W. McCarthy,
No Virginia, it is you who should be ashamed of yourself. America is a unique country in that we allow for freedom of religion, apparently a value you do not share. And a group of Moslems building a mosque is not something being done “under the guise of freedom of religion”, it is freedom of religion. Sorry, you don’t like others have that freedom, perhaps you reserve it only for Christians.
To a degree I suppose there is a grain of truth to the assertion that the Moslem community is being a little insensitive to the emotional impact on New Yorkers who witnessed the horrors of 9/11. However, I find it beyond bizarre when conservative Christians whine about the insensitivity of those from a different cult than the one in which you are likely immersed.
I find the conservative Christian community in America totally insensitive to the rights of gay Americans and even think they legitimately have the right to vote to withhold rights that are guaranteed to them in our Constitution. I find that the conservative Christian community is generally insensitive and oblivious to the idea of paying for their own cult and instead seekw to get the government to use the power of government to establish National Days of (Christian) Prayer and to fund their Christian madrasas at every turn. As well, I am a bit weary of insensitive conservative Christians who figure that even those who don’t believe in the tenets of that cult should be bound by those religious precepts on issues from abortion to Evolution.
You also state that we are under attack in ways that millions of Americans don’t recognize. Perhaps you with your special vision and incredible insight can enlighten us as to in which ways exactly are we being attacked.
Finally, your statement that the imam is being sent abroad at US taxpayer expense to raise funds for the Cordoba project is completely wrong in the typical conservative Christian way, that is to say that the facts don’t stop you from launching hateful and incorrect rhetoric into the air. The truth is this cult leader is being sent to promote religious tolerance and will in fact be prohibited from fund raising on this trip. Of course this is a stupid idea and we should not be footing the bill for such a nebulous endeavor but it is remarkably different than your hysterical yammering. So, perhaps turning off the FOX news channel and learning to read something other than the Bible would be a good idea for you.



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S. A. Roman

posted August 12, 2010 at 12:16 pm


Sekulow’s comment on Hannity’s show (“you don’t get to build a mosque on a site that’s part of ground zero” because “that would be like putting at Pearl Harbor a monument of the Kamikaze pilots who tried to destroy U.S. troops, you just don’t do that”), equating a billion Muslims not associated with 9/11 with Kamikaze pilots, merely confirms that he is, quite simply, an idiot.



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Homer

posted August 12, 2010 at 7:39 pm


Jay: “Barry, No one is advocating that mosques should not be built in New York City.”
“Permits should not be granted to build even one more mosque in the United States of America, …” Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association wrote this week on the website.
DOH!



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Rich

posted August 12, 2010 at 8:12 pm


Homer,
re: the Bryan Fischer quote
That is pretty darn funny. I guess Jay drones on first, checks his facts later.



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Leslie Parks

posted August 13, 2010 at 2:24 pm


Why can we have a mosque at ground zero but we cant have a cross in the mojave desert.



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Rich

posted August 13, 2010 at 2:29 pm


Leslie Parks,
Really, get a grip. The cross in the Mojave inappropriately stands on public land. The mosque two blocks away from Ground Zero would be on privately owned property.



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Mr. Incredible says

posted August 14, 2010 at 3:26 am


Obammy supports the mosque. Is it any wonder? His middle name, after all, IS “Hussein.”



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Mr. Incredible says

posted August 14, 2010 at 3:30 am


If the mosque can be built on that particular spot even though people are offended, then we guess that nobody in Skokie should have any complaint about neo-nazis marching through their neighborhoods, or any other Jewish neighborhood.



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Mr. Incredible says

posted August 14, 2010 at 3:34 am


If the mosque can go up there, in the face of those who are offended, then we guess that Christians don’t have-ta worry about offending those who claim to be homosexual when Christians show up at their goofball parades in order to help them see the error of their ways. Those who claim to be homosexual should welcome them.



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Mr. Incredible asks

posted August 14, 2010 at 3:39 am


If building the mosque in that spot, in the face of all those who are offended, is ok, then why should it matter whether somebody utters the “N” word even though some may be offened?
If the mosque should be built no matter who is offended, who cares whether atheists are offended by The Ten Commandments anywhere?



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 14, 2010 at 5:49 am


Rich says:
The cross in the Mojave inappropriately stands on public land.
Mr. Incredible says:
Then you disagree with the Supreme Court which says that it is appropriate.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 14, 2010 at 5:54 am


Rich says:
America is a unique country in that we allow for freedom of religion…
Mr. Incredible asks:
What’s the worship atheists are free to practice? How does the First Amendment’s “religion” clause apply to atheists who say they don’t believe and don’t worship?



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Your Name

posted August 14, 2010 at 2:51 pm


The problem if the mosque represents the very thing which embodies a religion which kills American’s, then I would not be for it…
Meaning:
If a Jihad consist of various activities based on killing American’s or people not of their faith, then that would be in my eyes enableing the actual activity which destroyed thousands of human lives through their faith…
That is the problem, to see fellow people which do not follow their religion as enemies, and enableing the mere thought of killing the people for that circumstance, and then giving them buildings to practice this thought process, which actually was the reason for the loss of lives there. That would be an oxymoron if I ever heard it..
For if their faith has consequences for an a person which kills innocent lives, and they do it with whatever, that would be a violation of their faith…
Just because people live and breath in this country does not necessarily mean that they agree with government policies or every decision which the government or leadership makes representing this country..
So to kill, based on phylosophies or like minded decisions of this country would be not consistant with protected innocent lives, which would be a violation of their own faith…
So..
If they would clarify that in their text to their followers, that would be beneficial in protecting people who maybe, just maybe are undecided in what they believe or what they want to practice…
LOVE, remember….!
cc



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Your Name

posted August 14, 2010 at 3:03 pm


an-
indefinite article..
Do they see killing American’s or like minded people as indefinite articles to kill and destroy through their faith based on what?
America gives free choice, not dictatorship of religion…to try and kill American’s based on philosophies as all for one and one for all, is not American…meaning, there is differences….cc
philosophy- all learning exclusive of technical perecepts and practical arts.
philosophies……..
People view things differently in different places even within the same faith, so to kill based on that, is not biased..
People take Christianity differently from one house to the next, they practice it differently..
Some Christians, don’t follow the whole book, they pick and choose what works for them…which would be inconsistant with viewing all scripture as devinely produced by God…
That is the problem.., even within the Christian views, they believe differently and some don’t follow scripture as being true, I don’t know if they are true Christian’s in that case, but whatever floats everybodies boat, eh…?
cc



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Your Name

posted August 14, 2010 at 3:08 pm


consistent-
a: marked by harmony, regularity, or steady continuity: free from variation or contradiction….
cc



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Your Name

posted August 14, 2010 at 3:12 pm


Sorry for the spelling errors once again, I like to do things differently…., or at least I try and correct it after I see them…
I don’t want to lead anybody into poor grammar…hahaha!
cc
Have a nice day fellow people…*



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 14, 2010 at 5:10 pm


If those who claim to be homosexual can parade their filthy selves through our neighborhoods, and artists can display, in the public square, the image of the Virgin Mary in dung [no problem with the so-called “separation of Church and State” there] and the Crucifix dipped in urine [no problem with the so-called “separation of Church and State” there], even though most people are offended by those insensitive events, then, I guess, a mosque in the immediate vicinity of Ground Zero, as discourteous as it is to the memory of nearly 3000 dead, can be built there.
However, if being offended is not a hindrance to First Amendment exercise, then nobody should have a problem with Christians confronting those who claim to be homosexual at their obscene, homosexuality-on-parade-in-broad-daylight events, and no hindrance to Christians going to Muslim events and handing out Christian literature. Nobody should ever problem with the display of The Ten Commandments, either, being offended the little matter that it is.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 14, 2010 at 5:12 pm


CORRECTION
nobody should ever problem — — > nobody should have a problem



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 14, 2010 at 5:39 pm


JESUS IS LORD !

When will Corpus Christi be renamed for a violation of the so-called “separation of Church and State”?
Then, again, even if somebody is offended by Corpus Christi being the name of the city, if we take this mosque example, it doesn’t matter.

JESUS IS LORD !



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Rich

posted August 15, 2010 at 2:05 am


Mr. I Can Type In Bold,
Wow, your big “Jesus Is Lord!” is really cool, keen in fact. You really are a bewildered cultist. Get some help.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 15, 2010 at 2:48 am


JESUS IS LORD !

Rich says:
Mr. I Can Type In Bold…
Mr. Incredible says:
It’s easier than you’ll ever know.
Rich says:
Wow, your big “Jesus Is Lord!” is really cool, keen in fact.
Mr. Incredible says:
Good. I’ll keep it up.
Rich says:
You really are bewildered cultist.
Mr. Incredible says:
First, before I was born again 7 1/2 years ago, I was bewildered. I am no longer bewildered.
Rich says:
Get some help.
Mr. Incredible says:
I got help 7 1/2 years ago when I asked Jesus into my heart. I haven’t needed help since.

JESUS IS LORD !



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 15, 2010 at 2:54 am


JESUS IS LORD !

Rich says:
Mr. I Can Type In Bold…
Mr. Incredible says:
You forgot the italics.
And, again, it’s still easier than you’ll ever know.
Rich says:
You really are bewildered cultist.
Mr. Incredible says:
First, before I was born again 7 1/2 years ago, when I was of the world, I was bewildered. I am no longer bewildered cuz, while I am in the world, I am no longer of it, having left people like you behind. Not only that, Christianity is not a cult. We understand that you don’t know the difference and that you don’t wanna know the difference.

JESUS IS LORD !



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HG

posted August 15, 2010 at 4:20 am


Rich: “Mr. I Can Type In Bold, Wow, your big “Jesus Is Lord!” is really cool, keen in fact. You really are a bewildered cultist. Get some help.
Hey Rich, glad somebody is reading. It isn’t really worth jousting with the tool for my own entertainment only.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 15, 2010 at 4:35 am


JESUS IS LORD !

Rich says:
Mr. I Can Type In Bold, Wow, your big “Jesus Is Lord!” is really cool, keen in fact. You really are a bewildered cultist. Get some help.
HG says:
Hey Rich, glad somebody is reading. It isn’t really worth jousting with the tool for my own entertainment only.
Mr. Incredible says:
Lookit how much I can post in such short time. So, whose jousting with whom?? You really don’t know how easy it is for me.

JESUS IS LORD !



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 15, 2010 at 4:43 am


JESUS IS LORD !

Rich says:
…Wow, your big “Jesus Is Lord!” is really cool, keen in fact.
Mr. Incredible says:
I’m glad you like it cuz you’re gonna have-ta lookit it for a long, long time. I may begin to alternate it with other things from the Word of God that’ll burn your eyes, too.

JESUS IS LORD !



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 15, 2010 at 4:47 am


JESUS IS LORD !

CORRECTION
whose jousting with whom?? — — > who’s jousting with whom??



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 15, 2010 at 4:58 am


JESUS IS LORD !

So, if discourtesy, offending, insensitivity aren’t enough to stop that mosque from being built on that spot overlooking what they think is their victory over the lives of nearly 3000 innocents, then accusations of discourtesy, being offensive and insensitive aren’t enough to stop anybody from doing, nor saying, anything.
So, for example, if those who claim to be homosexual are offended by what we say, so what? We are merely worshiping God and practicing our faith. Just as the Muslims, apparently, our freedom is much more important than whether they are offended.
We’re glad that’s settled.

JESUS IS LORD !



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 15, 2010 at 5:20 am


JESUS IS LORD !

HG says:
Hey Rich, glad somebody is reading.
Mr. Incredible says:
In other words, HG can’t read. HG is glad you’re doing it for him.

JESUS IS LORD !



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NJel

posted August 15, 2010 at 9:16 am


I agree that this movement isn’t about religion at all. Even those who bear no affiliation with christianity or its branches can feel the metaphorical slap-in-the-face. The reality is that Islamic extremists took the lives of thousands of Americans on 9/11.
America is a melting pot of cultures and religions; thus, some families of other cultural and religious backgrounds were affected by the tragic events on that day. To erect a mosque on these grounds is a bad move. We wouldn’t be erecting a friendship bracelet moreso than a white flag.
Opposing not the building of the mosque but its location is what this legal battle is about. The sheer amount of resistance alone is evident enough to suggest that others in the political office have agendas made unaware to the public.



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HG

posted August 15, 2010 at 9:54 am


Mr. INaD: …….”Jesus is Lord”
Maybe to you, one of his sheep, but I heard that one of the discarded gospels revealed that He was a prison favorite if you know what I mean, and I think Mr. INaD does (He likes men in bunny costumes).



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Chris

posted August 15, 2010 at 1:57 pm


My legal issues regarding the U.S. State Department’s sponsorship of the Mosque.
Herein is the letter I have submitted to Charles Schumer and President Obama, and others:
My disagreement with President Obama is strong regarding his Presidential participation in an Islamic ceremony and support of Islamic practice near ground zero, in Manhattan, New York, New York. My reasons differ from others that I have read against him this week of August 8 through the 15th, 2010.
In 2009, President Obama prior to visiting China, stated, Tibet is gone. [quote end quote]. In my heart, with those simple three words, the President attacked Tibetan Buddhism, my religion, my faith, my Sangha (those who practice Tibetan Buddhism), my teachers (of Tibetan Buddhism) and the future survival of Tibetan Buddhism. The President horrified me with his blatant disregard for our feelings (Tibetan Buddhists) our existence. The Associated Press did little reporting about his strident statement.
In that instance, Mr. Obama took it upon himself to predict the entire future of Tibet, the nation, proper, and its Tibetan people, as an elected President of the United States. He threw dirt essentially, on the many persistent, concerted and weaponless efforts to persuade the Han-Communist Chinese to let Tibet go, to let Tibetans be free, free to practice their religion. Remember, the Communist Chinese committed a genocide against the Tibetans, and have no intent to allow Tibet be more than a tourist site.
The same President Obama supports Muslims, now, to practice their religion near the U.S. site where approximately three-thousand people were crushed or burned to death, or maimed due Muslim religious practices, albeit they were so-called aberrant ones. The Islamic Country’s leadership failed to express outrage at loss of lives and property due to the militant Muslims. They failed miserably to stand down Muslim’s murdering, physical destruction and damage to our country’s instrument of freedom, the Constitution. Not one leader the Islamic world has vigilantly campaigned against the horrific violence against the United States. Instead, it appears that the Muslim world has merely accepted or acquiesced to violence committed in the name of Allah.
In supporting Muslims’ practice, under the guise of the 14th Amendment and 1st Amendment, of the United States Constitution, while condemning Tibetans as lacking a right to their land, President Obama becomes a hypocrite and guilty of religious bigotry. He negates Tibetan Buddhists’ freedom to practice in their own land, Tibet, while inviting Muslims who cultivate the United States as an enemy, in its’ foreign land, the United States.
Tibetan Buddhist religious-practices exercise nonviolent acts, and through mediation reaches an enlightenment that anger and hatred is an illusion, and prohibit contact or use weapons.. Yet Muslims maintain a Koran that describes those people that are not Muslim, such as Buddhists, as infidels, subject to their annihilation – an imperative and not discretionary for a practicing Muslim.
Muslims solicit, recruit, verbally threaten all of the West, promise to destroy Israel merely based on its being Jewish, and murder, mutilate and subjugate its Muslim women. They are, as,Winston Churchill wrote, a retrograde force of civilization despite the advances of rational science.
My legal analysis to counter the President’s is that, the U.S. Constitution distinguishes group activity with malicious intent against our country from those that do not. The U.S. constitution recognizes that the freedom for people practicing a particular religion is for spiritual refuge outside a government’s influence or control, not of militancy. As such, Islam is subject therefore to review, if it maintains the U.S. anti constitutional practices of subjugation of women and hatreds and discriminatory actions against any others than Muslims, as its body of representatives so expresses via Western media.
President Obama presents himself now as a religious fraud; when I voted for him, I thought him a Christian. Originally, I thought him to be an inexperienced Senator who was too green for the Presidency, but now, I believe he is a danger to my country, our country. He is recklessly negligent with advisers, fails to grasp the plight of the laborer, the worker, the American and is not in control, in particular with our economy.
Partying in Washington, he was oblivious to the attempted terrorist attack on NYC, recently. His top legal prosecutor creates legal conflict with the states that do not want cannabis legalized. He speeches are strident and shrill rather than calm. He is no Franklin Delanor Roosevelt in office, with charm and an expansive caring to his actions and public words.
The DNC, Democrats, should never have allowed Barrack Obama to represent the U.S. Democratic party.
Buddhist have a fairy tale about why Buddhism “spread” to the other areas of the world. In reality, Buddhism fled India. Tibetan Buddhists, all sects, Buddhist Lamas from Tibet taught us the history of our religion. Muslims destroyed all of Buddhism in Northern India, killed and razed our Buddhist shrines, buildings, writings, and paintings. Buddhism has survived only because it took refuge at three miles above sea level, in Tibet. Tibetan Buddhism is distinct from other Buddhists practices and is reliant upon the geography of Tibet. Due to the adaptations by Tibetans who have been considered to be another species due to their ability to thrive at high altitudes, Buddhism prevailed against attacks by the neighboring Muslim nations.
The President must rescind his words that struck against Tibet. If he maintains his views on Muslims as equal to that of other religions, his political career will suffer.
Respectfully, a student of law, California Law in particular,
Christine Griffin



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Your Name

posted August 15, 2010 at 4:10 pm


p.s. It could be a problem with materialism…, what?
Just because I put on a dress, I bought a long time ago and wore it does not mean that I am materialistic..
And I do like cashmere. And there is nothing wrong with having expensive taste. Expensive things do not define who I am, they are nice to have, but I should not be judged for having them… And who did what with who, I do not know, I don’t even know what they did to me…, the church that is…
And I don’t steal, thank you very much I was bringing up a point. And of course you judged me for it when I was playing a role..
I could have been playing a hooker, a bank robber, a mass murdering lunatic, but that does not define who I really am… Meaning if I get an acting job, don’t think that I am everything which I play on screen, sometimes that is the point, it is a role….
It is interesting to note, that is what people thought or something close. There are fine when I play the conservative lady who keeps her mouth shut…
It is just when you bring up their issues to their fact, that they have a problem with it…LOves-c
p.s. You can not control what others do, even at church. For some will be gossiping , contradictory fools…
And some will be great Christians…
cc



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Your Name

posted August 15, 2010 at 4:44 pm


Gentleman- A man of gentle or noble birth or superior social position.
A well-mannered and considerate man with high standards of proper behavior.
So by these definitions hopefully it will be followed…
It is sad that I feel like this has been lost in our generation…cc
Some remnants of this remain for past relatives teachings, for the most part edicate and well mannered individuals can be few and far between. Maybe it will become a fancy for everybody to apply to their life…
Not to leave out gentlewoman-
a woman of gentle or noble birth or superior social position.
A well-mannered and considerate woman with high standards of proper behavior.
cc
I don’t know if I ever had a cashmere sweater. It may have only been angora, or a blend of it… I know, an abstract thought…, who cares… Angora can be either goat hair or rabbit hair…



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Your Name

posted August 15, 2010 at 4:47 pm


Just maybe I like to write about abstract thoughts not in-line with the topic at hand because, for one, I can not fix the problem at topic. And like most things which are argumentative, I like a bit of time to get away from it, because they are just that arguments….
So, I think I have had 3 angora sweators over a lifetime…
HAHA..C



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Your Name

posted August 15, 2010 at 4:50 pm


sweater…A jacket or pullover made esp. of knit, crocheted, or woven wool, cotton, or synthetic yarn.
Who knows, maybe somebody in another country does not know what a sweater is, or how to spell it…C



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Frank Tobits

posted August 16, 2010 at 7:47 pm


The Not At Ground Zero Mosque may be unpopular, and viewed by many as inconsiderate, but it not illegal. Obama and Reid are both right.



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J. Schmiesing

posted August 17, 2010 at 12:06 am


The terrorist ties of Imam Rauf should disqualify him from being the leader of a legitimate religious organization. It is a historical fact that Muslims build mosques as monuments in those areas where they have won battles. Originally, it was to be called Cordoba House, which commemorates a previous Muslim Jihad battle victory. It sure looks like a propaganda statement for militant Muslims which demonstrates their success killing thousands of innocent people on 9/11. Do they want to tell the world that they were victorious in south Manhattan ? The imam’s statements since 9/11 have put him in the category of being a friend of our terrorist enemies. He is a criminal by aiding the enemies of the United States. He is a participant in the Islam Fattah against the United States. He refuses to call Hamas a terrorist organization. He should be arrested as an enemy to the U.S. and he definitely should not be paid with U.S. tax dollars to be an emissary to the Middle East from the U.S. State Department. He is not a law-abiding Muslim. Freedom of religion does not allow citizens to break our laws. For example, although many people have founded “religious entities” within the United States, that are merely efforts to sidestep our laws. Bigamy used to be practiced by the Mormon church and other groups, but is not allowed because it is against our established laws. Groups that establish churches to allow the use of marijuana and other drugs, to avoid paying taxes, etc. are not recognized as legitimate and neither should a terrorist organizations fronting as a religion. No one disagrees that law abiding Muslims can practice their religion, as long as it does not break our laws and invade the rights of others. What about the “rights” of the victims and their families ? If “moderate muslims” truly want to establish “harmony” between the Muslim religion and the people of the United States, they will do a lot to promote harmony to refrain from offending the many victims of 9/11. Don’t you think there would be objections to Nazis building a center down the street from the Holocaust museum, or the Japanese building religious or cultural centers at Pearl Harbor ? The Pope did not allow a group of nuns to set up a nunnery outside of Auschwitz concentration camp, not because it was illegal, but because he was sensitive to the feeling of the many Jewish victims who were there. The people behind building this mosque in South Manhattan support our enemies and do not follow our laws. We need to oppose this Jihad battle victory mosque.



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Your Name

posted August 17, 2010 at 3:12 pm


How do you know when a moderate Muslim decided when and if he wants to become a radicule one….?
Is is when he decides to read it over and over again and do what it says..?
c



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Your Name

posted August 17, 2010 at 3:18 pm


Is it… sorry…. you can make fun all you want, but at least I write with a headache instead of sit on my hiney and poke fun at someone who has a point, including someone who may be pointing out something more intelligent then you…..
Laugh away, you didn’t give me a dime and you left me like that…
And all for what….? eh?
One ex. of how people are abused is when others try and isolate them and take things away… , so no I don’t care if you are in leadership or not…. , you didn’t do a thing, but talk behind my back to appear as if you were more then I… I am not saying all, but I suppose that is how the cookie crumbles…eh….?
It is called arrogance….c
I should just strap a bunch of advil to my waste for my headaches, that is when I have enough money to pay for them… So don’t tell me you care, you didn’t give a damn…. thanks….C



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Rich

posted August 17, 2010 at 8:16 pm


CC,
re: “How do you know when a moderate Muslim decided when and if he wants to become a radicule one….?”
It pretty darn hard to refudiate that kind of reasoning.



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L Mao

posted August 17, 2010 at 10:52 pm


First, you must subject the moderate Muslim to constant radicule. When they absorb enough radicules, they’re radified.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 18, 2010 at 3:29 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

Mr. Incredible says:
Jesus is Lord
HG says:
Maybe to you…
Mr. Incredible says:
“Maybe” nothing. Nothing “maybe” about it.
HG says:
…one of his [sic] sheep…
Mr. Incredible says:
Christ knows His sheep. I’m glad to be one of them.
HG says:
…but I heard that one of the discarded gospels revealed that He was a prison favorite if you know what I mean
Mr. Incredible asks:
Oh, you mean one-a them .xxx sites that “revealed” this to you while you waited to be extradited??

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!



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Mr. Incredible says

posted August 18, 2010 at 3:41 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

A Greek Orthodox church, nearby Ground Zero, was destroyed in the 9/11 attack on WTC. Why don’t they get help, too? [ http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/17/ground-zero-church-archdiocese-says-officials-forgot/ ].

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!



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Mr. Incredible says

posted August 18, 2010 at 3:45 am


Let’s not forget that Obammy’s middle name is “Hussein.”
Islam says that the son of a Muslim is Muslim.
Thus we have a perspective for his remarks.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 18, 2010 at 4:35 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

What is the “religious” practice and worship of atheists that is protected by the First Amendment?

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 18, 2010 at 4:37 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

If atheists don’t practice “religion” and worship, how does the “religion” clause of the First Amendment apply to them?

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!



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Mr. Incredible says

posted August 18, 2010 at 4:51 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

Atheists and agnostics will say that the First Amendment includes the negation, “Freedom from.” It does not.
The First Amendment “religious” clause is not a negation. It allows, approves and permits “religious” practice and worship. It is a positive statement. It produces something. It does not subtract something. It speaks to those who practice and worship. It does not speak to those who do not practice and/nor worship.

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!



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Rich

posted August 18, 2010 at 11:18 am


Mr. I Am Not Well,
I see your Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is flaring up again. Just a clue for you, but all the caps and the irrational repetition pretty much confirm for everyone that you are off your meds.



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HG

posted August 18, 2010 at 3:27 pm


Yes, Mr. Dyed in the Wool Sheep who likes it from behind from men dressed in bunny suits (it’s probably his screen saver!) tries to prove his own quotation:
“I gotta say somthin’, even if it’s sheer idiocy.”
Well, everybody should what they’re good at, and he’s a professional when it comes to spewing idiocy.



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HG

posted August 18, 2010 at 5:20 pm


Rich, I notice that widower Ted Olson supports the Community Center. He doesn’t take it as a slap in the face, so it may have less to do with 9/11 and more to do with pure fear and blind hatred of anything Muslim.
Seems we had the same type of problem in early America, places where churches of “other” denominations were shouted down, its worshippers driven away for being the wrong type of Christian. That kind of behavior was disallowed after the Constitution, but the mindset persists.
Observing that Mr. Mentally Impaired types are still very much extant, I think it could be hundreds of years before most Americans recognize the falseness of the various god beliefs. How long do you think it will it be before collective humanity closes the door on superstitioius nonsense?



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 4:01 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

Rich says:
Mr. I Am Not Well…
Mr. Incredible says:
Sorry to see that you aren’t well.
Rich says:
… all the caps and the irrational…
Mr. Incredible says:
“Irrational,” according to YOU. But so what??
Rich says:
…repetition pretty much confirm for everyone that you are off your meds.
Mr. Incredible says:
You mean, not to everyone, rather to YOU. But so what??

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 4:25 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

HG says:
Yes, Mr. Dyed in the Wool Sheep who likes it from behind from men dressed in bunny suits (it’s probably his screen saver!) tries to prove his own quotation:
“I gotta say somthin’, even if it’s sheer idiocy.”
Mr. Incredible says:
Well, I gotta show everybody…again…what an idiot you really are.
The following is the actual post of mine from which HG lifted that line — and he can’t even get the spelling right — and posted it, misrepresenting what I wrote to try to leave the impression that I said it about myself, when the actual post below shows my intention:
Mr. Incredible
July 23, 2010 3:35 AM

Rich says:
HG,
Yep, blathering, blithering or just plain nutty…

Mr. Incredible translates:
” I wouldn’t be saying those things, if he agreed with me.”

Rich says:
…Mr. I Am Incredible, Really I Am…

Mr. Incredible says:
No, I am.

Rich says:
… doesn’t seem much interested in anything other than masturbating his own ego.

Mr. Incredible breaks that code:
“I gotta say somethin’, even if it’s sheer idiocy.”

Reference to the actual post: http://blog.beliefnet.com/lynnvsekulow/2010/07/what-happened-to-the-kagan-sta_comments.html#ixzz0wI3A5eYw



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 4:39 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

HG says:
Rich, I notice that widower Ted Olson supports the Community Center.
Mr. Incredible asks:
So what?
HG says:
He doesn’t take it as a slap in the face…
Mr. Incredible asks:
So what?
HG says:
…so it may have less to do with 9/11 and more to do with pure fear and blind hatred of anything Muslim.
Mr. Incredible says:
So, to YOU, Ted Olson supports the Hamasque, and, so, according to YOU, that means that opposition to the Hamasque must have more to do, as YOU say, with fear and hatred than with 9/11.
HG says:
…I think it could be hundreds of years before most Americans recognize the falseness of the various god beliefs.
Mr. Incredible says:
I agree that they, as soon as possible, trash all their gods and goddesses and go with God. It’s good that you agree with me.
HG says:
How long do you think it will it be before collective humanity closes the door on superstitioius nonsense?
Mr. Incredible says:
Oh, as long as atheists and agnostics close the door on their superstitious nonsense.
Mr. Incredible says:
Insensitivity and offense is not enough, apparently, to cause the Muslims and their supporters to move the mosque.
However, it appears that insensitivity and offense have caused some people to file a “separation” violation with a Utah court which says that crosses signifying deaths at places along a highway in Utah are unconstitutional [ http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/18/federal-appeals-court-rules-utah-memorial-crosses-highway/ ]. Can YOU say, “hypocritical”?

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 4:42 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

CORRECTION
Insensitivity and offense is not enough — — >Insensitivity and offense are not enough

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 5:08 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

HG,
Just a little friendly advice, to save you some trouble and, mainly, embarrassment —
We know that — especially by the misspelling — that it is taking some effort and time to prepare and post your misrepresentations of what I wrote.
Those actual posts that show that you — by lifting a line, or two, but not the context, outta them — have misrepresented what I wrote in those posts are in a file and are so easy to post, to show everybody your misrepresentations, that all I have to do is virtually snap my fingers to post them. You really don’t know how easy it is.
We know that you people must stoop to such tactics as misrepresentation when you run outta substance. But, do yourself a favor and quit your misrepresentations so you don’t make yourself a fool anymore.

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 5:28 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

What is the “religious” practice and worship by atheists and agnostics that need First Amendment protection?
You’d think that this is an easy one, if it is true that they get First Amendment protection from the “religion” clause.
But, uh-oh. Glitch. Atheists and agnostics say they don’t practice “religion.” They say that theirs is not a “religion.” What “religion” practice and worship protection do they need??

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 5:49 am


JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !
CORRECTION
Oh, as long as atheists and agnostics close the door on their superstitious. — — > Oh, as long as atheists and agnostics take to close the door on their superstitions.
AND THE LIGHT SHINETH IN DARKNESS; AND THE DARKNESS COMPREHENDED IT NOT.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 5:52 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

… all the caps and the irrational repetition…
Mr. Incredible says:
It’s burning your eyes, huh.
JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !



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Gary

posted August 19, 2010 at 1:03 pm


Sorry but I see this from a different perspective….I see it from one of decency.
All have 1st Ammendment protections in this country, but building a mosque this close to Ground zero is not the decent thing to do and stopping it does in no way violate anyones 1st ammendment rights. We cannot regulate morality, nor can we make anyone good, but we can and do regulate and make laws against immorality. You cannot make someone not hate, but you can make laws should the individual manifest this hatred against another. We also do this within a majority of this country regarding sexual offenders, the sex trade etc.
Would you allow a strip club to open directly across the street from your childs High School? What would your cry be should a pedophile move into a house on your block, and you have young kids? Would you allow this, say nothing, although nothing has been perpatrated against you by this business or individual? I would guess that more than 90% of people would allow neither to happen.
As with this issue, to me, it bears the same underlying tenants. We now have information on what the motivation is behind this mosque, we know how the frontman of this endeavor stated that the United States was an ACCCESSORY to the crime of the 9/11 attacks….what more do we need to stop this from happeneing based on these reasons?



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F

posted August 19, 2010 at 3:02 pm

U

posted August 19, 2010 at 3:02 pm

A

posted August 19, 2010 at 3:03 pm

H

posted August 19, 2010 at 3:05 pm

O

posted August 19, 2010 at 3:06 pm

L

posted August 19, 2010 at 3:07 pm

E

posted August 19, 2010 at 3:07 pm

Heh

posted August 19, 2010 at 3:09 pm

Heh

posted August 19, 2010 at 3:10 pm

Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 3:23 pm


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD!

The State Department is paying for a trip by the imam of the mosque to be built where it is offensive to those with fresh wounds of 9-11 [ http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100818/D9HM55S00.html ].
Where are the “separation of Church and State” fanatics on this? How come no girly moanin’ and groanin’ about it?

JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name

posted August 19, 2010 at 3:41 pm


“Hussein” is Imam Obammy’s middle name. So, it’s no wonder that the Administration of America’s first Muslim president [Islam says that the son of a Muslim is Muslim] would stand behind paying for a trip to the Middle East by the leader of the proposed, Ground Zero Hamasque.
Again, where are the girly cries from the “separation of Church and State” crowd? That we must prod them shows that they are interested only in bashing Christians and Christianity. That’s cuz Christianity is effective.



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jesus 2.3

posted August 19, 2010 at 6:52 pm


Jay, your reasons suck. You’ve stooped pretty low with the excuses you’ve used. Why on earth would any compassionate human being deny another man a place to worship? In reality the Cordoba House would be a beacon to religious Freedom. If you would just open your mind, you may see the truth to what i say.
The people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center are dead, and they were bad examples of good Muslims. Stop complaining about something in the past, and start to look to a more understanding future. One where we all can learn to live together. Have I made myself clear?
I HOPE you understand the reasons for my position on this subject. Know that you will not be able to CHANGE my mind. That is HOPE&CHANGE for you.
In reality it is your mind that must change in order to know the truth. And that is REALITY & TRUTH also.
Peace be with you my friend.



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John Fagan

posted August 19, 2010 at 8:08 pm


Dear Jay,
Since you are asking for a question I’ll pose this as one. WHY ARE YOU LYING IN THE NAME OF GOD??? This whole ground zero mosque thing is a lie and you are running with it. Even CNN and most other media outlets have backed off, now making it clear that the site is blocks away from Ground Zero. I grew up in and around NYC. First if this was really “on” Ground Zero don’t you think the Police, Firemen, Sanitation workers etc. would just shut down the city in protest? They haven’t. Two blocks in NYC is a long way. For Example walk one block from anywhere into Greenwich Village and you enter a different world, same with Times Square, the Theater district or China Town. There are also many Mosques, Churches and Synagogues and also Bars, Strip Joints, and Liquor stores all over that area. Some much closer to Ground Zero. They are NOT building a mosque. Its a community center. They are not building a building, its in the middle of an existing building. I have been told that there are Christians and Jews on the board and the plan is to foster reconciliation between those groups.
I’m a republican Reagan conservative. But I am ashamed of how the party is using this. I don’t like Obama’s politics. But the Republicans are no better. And I can’t support what you are doing with this.
I have worked with and now work with Muslims. My friend at work prays with me daily for peace where we work (in a prison). He is a man of peace. He is Sunni as was my other friend. I know there are bad Sunnis as there are bad “Christians”, most of the inmates claim to be Christian, but that doesn’t make Muslims in general our enemy. We do pray to the same GOD. We are judged by our actions and Fruit. A Muslim who loves and acts like Christ is way ahead of a “Christian” who doesn’t. Christianity is loosing ground because many “Christians” don’t do the most basic requirements of their faith. Lying for political gain and fundraising profit is NOT what Christians should be doing. STOP Islam is spreading because it is doing what Christianity should be doing.
Sincerly,
John Fagan
Ps I would like to hear your response before I unsubscribe to your E-mails and write off ACLJ as just another for profit Radical Conservative Political “Christian” Organization. You can’t fight for Truth in Court if Truth is variable.



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John Fagan

posted August 19, 2010 at 8:41 pm


I Just read some of the other posts. If My facts are wrong please correct me, but I have many E-mails clearly saying Mosque on ground Zero. On Sacred ground. The place where people died. I have seen no mention of wreckage hitting this part of town. What I have read was that there was no damage or injuries in this part of town. Again If I am wrong I will gladly back off but Screaming Mosque On Ground zero when it is not near ground zero by NYC standards is not OK. Today on NPR I heard a Senator saying that here are no Japanese memorials near Pearl harbor. That is also not true. There is a Japanese cemetery and many memorials in and around Pearl harbor and the Japanese visitors to Pearl cry much more than most Americans that visit there.
An Evil Government attacked Pearl not Evil Japanese people. Also the Evil Japanese Government did not annihilate hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese civilians. They attacked a strategic military target. The US killed innocent civilians in both Europe and Japan.
And Iraq and Afganestan, and Vietnam and the CSA during the Civil War.
The Point I’m making is that all Muslims, Germans,Japanese,Irish, Jews, Americans, Russians, Chinese, English etc.etc. Are Not our enymies because of the past or what members of those groups do.
The criminals tha attacked us need to be stopped and prosecuted or killed in battle if they attack us but people that practice the religion they claim to practice shoul not also be persecuted. Not in America.



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Patrick Longworth

posted August 19, 2010 at 9:21 pm


I can see or try to see the different sides to this whole controversy of building a Mosque in New York City.
My personal feelings are: I disagree with the assertion that the site is “holy ground”, in fact I would assert that wherever the Lord’s presence is amounts to holy ground. I feel that it is disrespectful of Muslims to want to build a mosque there because it shows the same insensitivity to Americans that they claim Americans (or American policies) show to them.
Should the Muslims be allowed to build a Mosque there? I think perhaps they should be allowed if they will undertake to promise certain things: that the Mosque will not be used for a center of promoting “jihad”, especially against nonMuslim nations because then it makes it not a place of worship but a war planning theatre.
They should promise to erect a memorial to those who died in the spot they will build the mosque on and they should fundraise to help those who were victimized by the insidious attacks.
They should be more vocal in opposing their militant believers (if they are believers) and they should work to prove to America and the world that Islam is a “religion of peace”, if it truly is.



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HG

posted August 19, 2010 at 10:49 pm


I appreciate the tenor of recent comments from some Christian folk here. It reassures me of a fact I already knew; that most Christians are not well represented by the vocal, militant, few within their religion. I hope the leaders of this community center will similarly reject, and teach rejection of, the tenets of their militant minority.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 11:37 pm


HG says:
I appreciate the tenor of recent comments from some Christian folk here.
Mr. Incredible says:
Yes, the ones who agree with you. The lukewarm Christians. The Christians with 1 foot in and 1 foot out.
HG says:
It reassures me of a fact I already knew; that most Christians are not well represented by the vocal…
Mr. Incredible says:
Jesus was vocal. He was also fundamentalist.
HG says:
…militant, [sic] few within their religion.
Mr. Incredible says:
Define “militant.” The best bet is that you apply the word to those with whom you don’t agree.
Show us the telltale signs of a “militant” Christian, as YOU apply the word.
HG says:
I hope the leaders of this community center will similarly reject, and teach rejection of, the tenets of their militant minority.
Mr. Incredible says:
In other words, you wanna moderate Christian. Jesus wasn’t moderate. The Word isn’t moderate.
HG wants Christians to be wussy, and HG wants Jesus to have said what HG wants Him to say, the way HG wants Him to say it:

“Goeth into all the world. Teacheth all men to liveth any way they want. Urgeth each to find his, or her, own path to God.”

“Letteth not any one of you make someone feel inferior, nor victimized, because of their beliefs.

“Above all, be tolerant.

“Verily, verily, I saith unto you that what you believe and how you live don’t matter; the main thing is that you are sincere.

“I am one of the ways, one of the truths and just one possible life.

“If you are basically a good person, you are all right in My book; and, if you choose to come to the Father — or Mother, if you prefer — through Me, that’s way cool.

“Now, goeth forth to live according to whatever feels good to you.”



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 11:42 pm


“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus

HG says:
I hope the leaders of this community center will similarly reject, and teach rejection of, the tenets of their militant minority.
Mr. Incredible asks:
What are the “tenets”? Care-ta list them, as you choose to imagine them?

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD !



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 19, 2010 at 11:57 pm


jesus 2.3 asks:
Why on earth would any compassionate human being deny another man a place to worship?
Mr. Incredible says:
Nobody is trying to deny anybody a place to worship.
jesus 2.3 says:
In reality the Cordoba House would be a beacon to religious Freedom.
Mr. Incredible says:
It could be a beacon to religious Freedom somewhere else, too, and everybody would be happy.
jesus 2.3 says:
If you would just open your mind, you may see the truth to what i say.
Mr. Incredible translates that to say:

“If only you would deny everything you think and just accept everything I say.”

jesus 2.3 says:
The people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center are, and they were bad examples of good Muslims.
Mr. Incredible asks:
How do we know? They thought they were good examples of good Muslims.
jesus 2.3 says:
Stop complaining about something in the past…
Mr. Incredible says:
So, you’re not terribly compassionate on those whose wounds are still fresh.
jesus 2.3 says:
… and start to look to a more understanding future.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Tell those whose wounds are still fresh not to hurt when salt is poured into those wounds.
jesus 2.3 says:
One where we all can learn to live together.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Who are you, Rodney King?
jesus 2.3 says:
Have I made myself clear?
Mr. Incredible says:
Yes, you want everybody to think like you.
jesus 2.3 says:
Know that you will not be able to CHANGE my mind.
Mr. Incredible says:
But you want everybody to live together.
jesus 2.3 says:
In reality it is your mind that must change in order to know the truth.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Whose “truth”?
jesus 2.3 says:
And that is REALITY…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Whose “REALITY”?
jesus 2.3 says:
… & TRUTH also.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Again, whose “TRUTH”?

JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !



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Randy B

posted August 20, 2010 at 12:15 am


Jay, I agree with your desire to fight against the double standard being imposed upon Christians here in the U.S. Why should the officials in NYC refuse to permit a historic Greek Orthodox church to be rebuilt on the site where it was damaged on 9/11/01, but allow a mosque to be built where another building was damaged by the attacks of that same day? The church was located there for about a century and a half, and I therefore highly suspect that the property is owned by, not rented by, those church officials. To deny them of their private property rights or to tell them how they can worship is unconstitutional. On the other hand, permitting anyone to lie to a city zoning board as to what property the group he represents owns [as well as to the group’s financial ability to build any type of building] is wrong, regardless of the property’s location.
Furthermore, choosing to honor the memory of the Muslim attackers with a mosque so close to the former site of the Twin Towers is tactless, if not treasonous. If this was merely a case of property rights and freedom of religion, there would already be a fully restored Greek Orthodox church near the site of the prposed mosque.



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Charles Thomas

posted August 20, 2010 at 1:10 am


I consider myself a Christian,but I’m in no way a ‘moderate’ in any sense of that term.I take my religion very seriously,which is why I’m unalterably opposed to efforts on the right to turn Christianity into a political ideology.They aren’t interested in personal salvation or enlightenment,but power to control the lives of others.To them,Christianity is simply a means to that end.



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HG

posted August 20, 2010 at 1:51 am


Others have remarked about the St. Nicholas Church in NYC being denied a permit. I liked the response given by Elecmaj on the comcast.net forums.
Elecmaj: “Actually the Port Authority offered the Church $20 million to move their location. The spot they want to build on is still being developed for security systems, underground screeners for trucks entering the area. But hey dont fact find, be a limbaugh ditto head.”
Charles Thomas, most religious people in this country accept that their actions will be governed by American Law without consideration of religious belief. Everyone is free to select their own religious belief from zero to infinity and beyond, yes? Constitutionally protected equality, yes? Some people allow religious ideology to drive them to commit acts which are unlawful, regardless of religious consideration. The governmental sphere of influence prosecutes such cases, but it normally doesn’t impact with the religious sphere of influence at all. Yes?



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 20, 2010 at 3:20 am


“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus

HG says:
…most Christians are not well represented by the vocal, militant, few within their religion. I hope the leaders of this community center will similarly reject, and teach rejection of, the tenets of their militant minority.
Mr. Incredible says:
“Militant,” as in, “working aggressively for a cause,” and, “evangelism,” as in, “zeal for cause.” I got no problem with that, when put in those terms:
2 Corinthians 10:3-6
1 Timothy 6:12
Ephesians 6:10-20
Romans 8:37
You don’t have-ta like it, just as the Pharisees didn’t like the operations of Jesus, the Evangelist.
We understand that you’re intimidated by evangelical confrontations. You’re not comfortable unless you can make somebody else back down. Well, you’re finding out that you have no power over me. Just as Belial Boris found out, and fled, tail between his legs. Probably possessed a pig.

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD !



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 20, 2010 at 3:28 am


JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !

HG says:
Everyone is free to select their own religious belief from zero to infinity and beyond…
Mr. Incredible says:
If “religious” belief is zero, there is no “religious” belief. “Zero” means “none.” Nada. Zip. “Religious” belief that is zero is no “religious” belief. It is the opposite of what the First Amendment expresses.
Atheists and agnostics claim no “religious” belief.
Therefore, the “religion” clause of the First Amendment doesn’t apply to them cuz they practice no “religious” belief, or so they say, and do not worship. The First Amendment does not match their negations.



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Mr. Incredible

posted August 20, 2010 at 3:34 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD !

What “religious” belief do atheists and agnostics practice that is protected by the First Amendment?
If their “religious” belief is zero on the scale, as HG says, they have no “religious” belief to which the First Amendment is applicable.



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Rich

posted August 20, 2010 at 10:45 am


Mr. I Am Losing My Mind,
You really are descending into some sort of obsessive idiocy. You might want to get some help.
But, in the meantime your assertion that the 1st Amendment doesn’t address atheists is beyond moronic, just plain stupid actually. The following quote from Jefferson addresses the debate that took place in reference to the passing of the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom. If you read it you will notice that in Jefferson’s opinion, religious freedom was meant to precisely include infidels. Now, don’t get your panties in a hitch, I do understand that this was a state statute and not the Constitution but it does reflect the political sentiment at the time, a sentiment you and your fellow cultists would undo and replace with a Christian theocracy.
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom



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mary

posted August 20, 2010 at 1:31 pm


It – is – about Ground Zero. It’s symbolic.
It was no accident of public relations that “Córdoba Initiative” was chosen as the title of the Ground Zero mosque project. The city of Córdoba was the capital of al-Andalus, the Umayyad Caliphate in Iberia, and the famous Córdoba Mosque was built atop the rubble of a destroyed church.
Peaceful conquest is a historical anomaly, however — from its inception until its long decline began in 1683, Islam expanded solely through violence. Wherever Islam expanded violently, it built mosques at the sites of its victories. The minarets rose over the rubble of destroyed churches, synagogues, and temples to stand as symbols of Islam’s conquest of the kuffar. The Córdoba Mosque was an architectural announcement of the Moorish triumph over Christian Iberia.
The Córdoba Initiative thus provides an obvious historical analogy to the Islamic victory on September 11th, 2001, at Ground Zero. The significance of the name and place will not be lost on any educated Muslim who hears about the project.
What has NOT been revealed is the source of funding for construction. What also has not been revealed are the parameters of the Shariah Index Initiative.
The Ground Zero Mosque has at least 6 mystery floors. We suggest that they’ll be used by the Shariah Index Project.
The Shariah Index Project was built by at least 14 Shariah experts. We have the identities probably of 7 of them, and Rauf should reveal the other 7 right away.
The Shariah Index Project generated at least 16 documents and maybe a final book, and Rauf should release all of these – right away.
The issues at stake in the Ground Zero Mosque and the Shariah Index Project are not about Americans supporting the Constitution’s protection of religious freedom. Americans support that protection.
The issues at stake here are about Americans protecting the Constitution from Shariah-adherent groups using the protective guise of religious freedom to attack the Constitution itself – using a triumphal Ground Zero mosque as “the base” for a project to institutionalize Shariah in America.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus

posted August 20, 2010 at 1:44 pm


Atheists say they don’t worship. They say they don’t practice “religion.” They say that atheisim is not a “religion.”
The First Amendment protects worship. It protects practice. The First Amendment protects profession, not negation.
Now, if atheists are a form of “believer,” that they believe, that’s another story; but atheists here fought me tooth and nail months ago when I said that they believe, not not believe.
Now, it’s easy to quote Jefferson who doesn’t address the issue I address. It’s not so easy to explain the dislocated, atheist thinking on this.
So, which is it?



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name

posted August 20, 2010 at 1:55 pm


An “infidel” has no “religion.” The First Amendment speaks of worship and the practice of “religion.”
The “infidel” argues from negation. Negation never solves anything. It produces nothing. It does nothing. It is a void.
The First Amendment endorses “religious” worship and practice which atheists say they do not do. If they do not do them, they don’t need First Amendment protection.
Jefferson had nothing to do with the drafting of the Constitution.



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HG

posted August 20, 2010 at 3:27 pm


Mr. Idiot: “Jefferson…”
Is that Sherman Hemsley? Or maybe he’s referring to Mr. Jefferson of the South Park episode, he doesn’t say. Maybe he doesn’t know who he was talking about.
Mr. Idiot: “…had…”
How do you know what he had or didn’t have, were you there? Did you see it? I don’t think so.
Mr. Idiot: “…nothing…”
Nothing is a nonexistent entity, how can you “have” nothing? What reality are you talking about, YOUR reality?
Mr. Idiot: “…to do with…”
Not surprising that he always comes up with this phrase, since it reminds him of doing it with his favorite guy in a bunny costume. He can’t get his mind off it!
Mr. Idiot: “…the drafting…”
Is he talking about beer now? Maybe racing, or the military? I don’t think he knows what he’s talking about!
Mr. Idiot: “of the Constitution”
No, it’s of the People, by the People, and for the People; not of the Constitution. Guess he didn’t know that.
Good comment Rich. Some of these people seem to operate on ignorance, hate, and fear (not to mention lies, distortions, and misinformation). We can’t change them, they are what they are. Sorry to have to tell you this Rich, but God came to me last night and told me I was the only one He was going to redeem, the rest of you are all being sent to Hell. I’ll send water if I can.
What is, is.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus

posted August 20, 2010 at 3:53 pm


The atheist says he has no “religion.” The atheist says he doesn’t worship, doesn’t practice within any “religious” framework.
The First Amendment protects worship and practice. You do the math.
The atheist asserts, “There is no God!” The atheist argues from negation which produces nothing, does nothing, adds nothing. It is subtraction, not addition. The First Amendment adds, doesn’t subtract. Again, you do the math.
The atheist, arguing from negation, cannot prove his assertion. He says he cannot prove a negative. And, yet, HE’s the one who chose the assertion. HE’s the one who says he’s persuaded by a negative, that he has proved it to himself. If it’s THAT easy, he should be able to prove it to everybody else.
Jefferson was not involved in the drafting of the Constitution.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus

posted August 20, 2010 at 3:55 pm


If the atheist cannot prove his negative to everybody else, why did he make the assertion?? To DECEIVE.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who is the ONLY Way to the Father, is the Truth and the Life

posted August 20, 2010 at 4:28 pm


Why would the atheist, who says he is soooooo danged devoted to the scientific, the empirical, the logical and reasoning, make a statement — that is, “There is no God!” — that he cannot prove??? Quite illogical, not to mention unscientific, intentionally to say something is true, then say nobody can plug the assertion into an experiment and add it to evidence to see whether it’s true, then let somebody else duplicate the experiment.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of the ONLY Way to the Father -- Jesus

posted August 20, 2010 at 4:40 pm


HG says that the Constitution protects everything from zero “religious” affiliation to some point in infinity.
However, if one is at zero “religious” affiliation, he has no “religious” affiliation. Nothing in the First Amendment suggests the absence of “religious” worship and practice is protected. The First Amendment makes a positive assertion, not a negative one, and atheists argue from negation, a void. Another word for “void” is darkness. Negation is not supportable, nor productive. Negation is a “Seinfeld” attempt to assert nothing as something, then the assertion maker saying that he cannot prove that his nothing is something, that nobody can prove his nothing is not something. It’s not enlightenment, rather delightenment. Satan MASQUERADING as an agel of light.



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name and Faith in His Name

posted August 20, 2010 at 4:48 pm


CORRECTION
an agel of light —> an angel of light



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HG

posted August 20, 2010 at 5:57 pm


Yes, IF you believe SATAN is an actual being, walking among us masquerading as a (goat? angel of light?) whatever, then I suppose you’d have to worry about what it’s up to. It’s long been an entertaining way to explain misfortune and disasters of all types! However, belief in supernatural beings, spooks of any kind, is not required in this country. What used to be understood by mankind as punishment from God, or gods, has largely been explained by science. So what religions, mostly, did was verbally incorporate all findings of science into the “meaning” of their chosen book.
Rich did a fine job already of pointing out the history of religious freedom in American law, citing the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom. The early debate of how best to meet all demands to ensure religious liberty, the writings of the people involved, is easy to find and read. Well, for most people.



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churchmouse

posted August 20, 2010 at 7:48 pm


To make a factual statement like………….I am an atheist,is impossible. An athiest says, THERE IS NO GOD.
He can’t prove there is no god. To do this he would have to possess all knowledge. And no one has all the knowledge in the world.
Albert Einstein said that mankind grasps less than one percent of total knowledge. If we have only one percent of total knowledge, would it not be possible for God to exist in the other ninety-nine percent?
Faith (at least by definition that I am willing to accept) is the acceptance of something as truth which you have sufficient rational grounds for doing so. That would mean faith in anything.



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Ken

posted August 20, 2010 at 7:49 pm


What would happen if a Christian such as Franklin Graham went to Iran and told the Iranian’s that he wants to purchase a plot of land in the heart of Terhan, Iran to build a Christian learning center. What do you suppose the Iranian’s would say or do? I think you already know the answer to that question. But that is exactly what those of the Islamic Religion want to do in our country.
Now lets look a bit at the ill-famed Separation of Church and State mantra which the Liberals in high U.S. Government like to chant and impose on any thing that appears to be Christian.
With the United States Governments strict stance on “Separation of Church and State” why is the U.S. now accepting of and accomodating as well as promoting the religion of Islam in the U.S. by using American tax-dollars to send Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf on his fourth American tax-payer sponsored trip to the Muslim world to raise support to build a Mosque at Ground Zero?
Imagine the uproar, if a Christian like Franklin Graham were to receive American tax-dollars to travel abroad to raise support to bulid a Christian Learning Center here in America.
Franklin Graham stated:
“”I think there is no place for this,” said the Rev. Franklin Graham, who is the son of evangelist Billy Graham and opposes the Islamic center and mosque. “Can you imagine if the State Department paid to send me on a trip anywhere? The separation of church and state — the critics would have been howling.”
Why is our Government accomodating towards any religion EXCEPT the Judeo Christian Religion?



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HG

posted August 20, 2010 at 8:17 pm


Iran is a theocracy, but I wouldn’t doubt the silliness of Franklin Graham to go there and attempt to preach about Christ. I’m very pleased, as I said, that it’s a different story with American law. Franklin Graham can think as he does, and such opinion will be given the legal consideration deserved should he request legal redress. If there is anything to be done legally, in addition to verbally opposing it, I suspect it will be.
As far as our government passing laws which allow expenditure of tax revenue for the purpose of building religious structures (without which we can still foster understanding and harmony), I find any and all such endeavors unconstitutional. I’d like to see more legal attention given to this aspect of any request for legal redress in this matter.



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Rich

posted August 20, 2010 at 8:51 pm


HG,
You are right of course that it is a far better thing that we in America do things in a different manner than the zealots in Iran. I see this odd comparison quite a bit actually on various blogs, the idea being that since one couldn’t plant a Christian church in downtown Tehran, well, we should not allow a mosque two blocks away from ground zero. I generally hope these folks are speaking off the cuff and don’t truly believe that we should do this kind of thing. As much as I don’t like religion, I find the thought of bullying any church out of existence to be a bit frightening, the last thing we need to do is feed martyr complexes out there, Christian, Muslim or Scientologist.



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Rich

posted August 20, 2010 at 8:58 pm


churchmouse,
Your logic circuits appear to be faulty, very faulty. Time for you to go into the lab for a checkup.
re: “To make a factual statement like………….I am an atheist,is impossible.”
Geez dude, I am an atheist and I exist. Somehow you missed that fact. If your logic was correct, I guess I should have poofed into non-existence when I read your words.
As well, you quote Einstein who you claim said we possess less than 1% of total knowledge. Now, I like Einstein and all that but isn’t that statement sort of internally inconsistent. Wouldn’t a person have to know the sum of all knowledge in order to compute the percent we possess? And, if Einstein did know the sum of all knowledge, wouldn’t that mean that a human could possess all knowledge? Was Einstein maybe one of the spirit angels?
However, Einstein wasn’t always overly vague in his statements. Once he said:
“The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.”
It turns out that he proved to be insightful about himself and you as well all at the same time.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus WHO is the ONLY Way to the Father

posted August 20, 2010 at 10:27 pm


“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus

HG says:
Yes, IF you believe SATAN is an actual being, walking among us masquerading as a (goat? angel of light?) whatever, then I suppose you’d have to worry about what it’s up to.
Mr. Incredible says:
Satan doesn’t mind that you think he doesn’t exist. In fact, he’s pleased and honored that you give him permission, by default; he works better that way. A lot more freedom to move about. No resistance. With you, he never gets the blame and you never take the blame; it’s always somebody else’s fault.
HG says:
… belief in supernatural beings, spooks of any kind, is not required in this country.
Mr. Incredible says:
You have an amazing grasp of the obvious.
HG says:
What used to be understood by mankind as punishment from God, or gods, has largely been explained by science.
Mr. Incredible says:
To understand and to explain the physics of a thunderstorm is not to say that God didn’t create the thunderstorm. Science has not dismissed God. Science has actually proved God!
HG says:
So what religions, mostly, did was verbally incorporate all findings of science into the “meaning” of their chosen book.
Mr. Incredible says:
What a pantload.
HG says:
Rich did a fine job already of pointing out the history of religious freedom in American law, citing the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom.
Mr. Incredible says:
Of course YOU think that he, according to you, did a, as you would have it, fine job. He agrees with you.
However, Jefferson had nothing to do with the drafting of the Constitution.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who came in Grace and Truth

posted August 20, 2010 at 10:33 pm


“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus

HG says:
Yes, IF you believe SATAN is an actual being, walking among us masquerading as a (goat? angel of light?) whatever, then I suppose you’d have to worry about what it’s up to.
Mr. Incredible says:
Satan doesn’t mind that you think he doesn’t exist. In fact, he works better that way. A lot more freedom to move about. With you, he never gets the blame.
HG says:
… belief in supernatural beings, spooks of any kind, is not required in this country.
Mr. Incredible says:
You have an amazing grasp of the obvious.
HG says:
What used to be understood by mankind as punishment from God, or gods, has largely been explained by science.
Mr. Incredible says:
To understand and to explain the physics of a thunderstorm is not to say that God didn’t create the thunderstorm. Science has not dismissed God. Science has actually proved God!
HG says:
So what religions, mostly, did was verbally incorporate all findings of science into the “meaning” of their chosen book.
Mr. Incredible says:
What a pantload.
HG says:
Rich did a fine job already of pointing out the history of religious freedom in American law, citing the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom.
Mr. Incredible says:
Of course YOU think that he, according to you, did a, as you would have it, fine job. He agrees with you.
However, Jefferson had nothing to do with the drafting of the Constitution.



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Mr. Incredible, submitting to God, through Christ, resisting the Devil who flees

posted August 20, 2010 at 10:40 pm


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD OVER HILLS AND THROUGH VALLEYS !

churchmouse says:
To make a factual statement like………….I am an atheist,is impossible. An athiest says, THERE IS NO GOD.
Mr. Incredible says:
Yes, it’s a negation.
churchmouse says:
He can’t prove there is no god.
Mr. Incredible says:
And, yet, the atheist makes a statement he knows he can’t prove. What kinda logic is that???
churchmouse says:
To do this he would have to possess all knowledge. And no one has all the knowledge in the world.
Mr. Incredible says:
The atheist simply cannot bring himself to say that he doesn’t know. He wants everybody to think he DOES know. He needs the attention. It is a cry for help. He’s headed for the cliff.
churchmouse says:
Albert Einstein said that mankind grasps less than one percent of total knowledge. If we have only one percent of total knowledge, would it not be possible for God to exist in the other ninety-nine percent?
Mr. Incredible says:
HG says that is not possible. HG says that there is one “reality” for everybody. So, he would argue, since Mankind grasps less than 1% of total knowledge, those who are born again can’t claim to have knowledge that he doesn’t have; but he starts out wrong by saying that there is one “reality” for everybody, that our “reality” must be is, and vice versa. That’s the deception.
churchmouse says:
Faith (at least by definition that I am willing to accept) is the acceptance of something as truth which you have sufficient rational grounds for doing so. That would mean faith in anything.
Mr. Incredible says:

“Faith cometh by hearing.”

“Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.”

“Death and life are in the power of the tongue…”

So, we must ask, “What faith comes by hearing?” ANY faith. That’s why we must be careful. People like HG accept the wrong faith, and that faith occupies their hearts, and, out of the abundance of their hearts, their mouths speak, their ears hear their faith, and so on. It’s just the wrong faith.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus, speaking in Light

posted August 20, 2010 at 10:51 pm


JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !

Ken says:
Now lets look a bit at the ill-famed Separation of Church and State mantra which the Liberals in high U.S. Government like to chant and impose on any thing that appears to be Christian.
With the United States Governments strict stance on “Separation of Church and State” why is the U.S. now accepting of and accomodating as well as promoting the religion of Islam in the U.S. by using American tax-dollars to send Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf on his fourth American tax-payer sponsored trip to the Muslim world to raise support to build a Mosque at Ground Zero?
Mr. Incredible asks:
The FOURTH??? I didn’t realize that! And, after four times, STILL no girly boy shrieks from the secularists about “separation of Church and State.” It goes to show whose side they’re on.
Ken says:
Imagine the uproar, if a Christian like Franklin Graham were to receive American tax-dollars to travel abroad to raise support to bulid a Christian Learning Center here in America.
Mr. Incredible says:
That’s cuz the Word the Christian speaks is more powerful than any two-edged sword. Islam is no threat to the Devil. The Devil focuses on Christianity cuz Christianity works. Christianity is the Devil’s greatest threat.
Ken says:
Why is our Government accomodating towards any religion EXCEPT the Judeo Christian Religion?
Mr. Incredible says:
Cuz, as I say, the greatest threat to the Devil is Christianity. No other “religion,” including atheism, threatens the Devil. Through all but Christianity, the Devil can freely work.



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HG

posted August 20, 2010 at 10:55 pm


Rich: “I see this odd comparison quite a bit actually on various blogs, the idea being that since one couldn’t plant a Christian church in downtown Tehran, well, we should not allow a mosque two blocks away from ground zero.”
Is it an incarnation of the “eye for an eye” mentality do you think? The logic is simply dreadful. What can we expect when a third of republicans choose to believe Obama is Muslim, contrary to his own declaration? They’ll recognize a doctrine of Islam over the President’s individual liberty as protected by the Constitution. Very strange individuals, the intellectual equivalent of virtual anti-matter dark energy particles…sure, they can exist, but they only make sense in their own little world.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Whose burden is Light

posted August 20, 2010 at 11:05 pm


Rich says:
churchmouse,
Your logic circuits appear to be faulty, very faulty.
Mr. Incredible says:
Of course, you don’t agree with him. So, it’s no surprise that you find him at fault.
Rich says:
Time for you to go into the lab for a checkup.
Mr. Incredible says:
You mean the lab where YOU’RE caged?
churchmouse says:
To make a factual statement like………….I am an atheist,is impossible.
Rich says:
I am an atheist and I exist.
Mr. Incredible says:
“Atheism” is an operation of the mind, not of existence. You chose atheism, as the one who claims to be homosexual chose homosexuality. Atheism and homosexuality are borne of the sin nature.
Rich says:
If your [churchmouse’s] logic was correct, I guess I should have poofed into non-existence when I read your [churchmouse’s] words.
Mr. Incredible says:
If only…
Rich says:
As well, you quote Einstein who you claim said we possess less than 1% of total knowledge. Now, I like Einstein and all that but isn’t that statement sort of internally inconsistent. Wouldn’t a person have to know the sum of all knowledge in order to compute the percent we possess? And, if Einstein did know the sum of all knowledge, wouldn’t that mean that a human could possess all knowledge? Was Einstein maybe one of the spirit angels?
Mr. Incredible asks:
How much of all the knowledge in the universe do YOU have?

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD OVER THE HILLS AND THROUGH THE VALLEYS !



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus, my Lord and Shepherd

posted August 20, 2010 at 11:19 pm


HG says:
… they only make sense in their own little world.
Mr. Incredible says:
That’s not correct, either.
We live IN the world, not of it. We HAVE lived in and of YOUR world. It isn’t pretty. So, we’re not unfamiliar with it, and, so, we have the authority and credibility to speak on the subject of the world.
You, on the other hand, have no experience in our world, the world of God, through Christ. Therefore, you are not in the position to be able authoritatively, nor credibly, to say anything worth listening to about Christianity. You don’t have the experience of God. It takes experience, not Science. God is not subject to scientific proof. God is experience, and, as I say, you don’t have the experience on which to say anything authoritatively, nor credibly, on the subject.

“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus



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Charles Thomas

posted August 21, 2010 at 12:51 am


“To make a factual statement like…….I am an atheist, is impossible.”
I wish churchmouse would clarify what he or she meant by that comment,because taken literally, it makes no sense at all.
For the sake those who apparently think there are as many realities as there are people on planet earth, I will say The term “makes no sense at all” in the preceding sentence, means the statement does not conform to the facts of reality as every person knows it.
The mere fact that HG stated he is an atheist proves that it is possible to make the statement “I am an atheist.”
One might as well claim that to make statements such as: “I am an agnostic”,or “I am a Christian” are impossible too.



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HG

posted August 21, 2010 at 1:21 am


Agnostics are unconvinced of the existence of supernatural beings such as God or gods of religious foundation, but we avoid claiming absolute knowledge that such do not exist. Certainly, statements proposing a reality beyond “reality as every person knows it” are not possible to disprove. We COULD be the winning exhibit for some seventh grader in another dimension, with all of our experiences having already been recorded prior to the inflationary Big Bang.
I believe it was Rich who claimed atheism, but I think it’s more a matter of semantics than any great divide between how we assess the various explanations behind our current state of existence and how we express our degree of confidence in the lack of evidence of God or gods being absolutely determinative.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Whose Words shall not pass away

posted August 21, 2010 at 1:51 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD !

churchmouse says:
To make a factual statement like…….I am an atheist, is impossible.
Charles Thomas says:
I wish churchmouse would clarify what he or she meant by that comment,because taken literally, it makes no sense at all.
Mr. Incredible says:
I understand it perfectly.
He says that somebody claims that the statement, “I am an atheist,” is factual, that what it describes cannot be. The person claiming, “I am an atheist,” cannot prove there is no God.
But so what if somebody says, “I am an atheist”? What’s the statement that matters? What is the stand? What is the position? Is he saying, “I believe there is no God,” or, “I don’t believe in God,” or, “I say God doesn’t exist,” or, “God doesn’t exist”? Is the assertion THAT he says something, or the thing that he says?
Charles Thomas says:
For the sake those who apparently think there are as many realities as there are people on planet earth, I will say The term “makes no sense at all” in the preceding sentence, means the statement does not conform to the facts of reality as every person knows it.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which “reality”?
Charles Thomas says:
The mere fact that HG stated he is an atheist proves that it is possible to make the statement “I am an atheist.”
Mr. Incredible says:
You’re correct that all it proves is that he is capable of making the statement. It doesn’t prove he’s an atheist, or whatever, though. It also doesn’t prove that there is no God. The atheist can’t know that there is no God cuz he doesn’t have enough information, nor the experience, to make such a statement. God isn’t subject to scientific proof. It’s experience, just like love and beauty.
Charles Thomas says:
One might as well claim that to make statements such as: “I am an agnostic”,or “I am a Christian” are impossible too.
Mr. Incredible says:
It’s not impossible to make statements.



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hotelscheck

posted August 21, 2010 at 1:57 am


Only User,figure meeting generate capacity average us drink will whole as crisis closely technical surface dog somebody construction nuclear rise beginning passage finish importance he wave old tall depend attach activity escape concern conclusion annual lady rock commission wood huge writing step military finger interesting table rest entire place produce have southern discover develop nuclear outside all commission collection finish unable attitude gate normal stand rather help gas male test each product visit target football release immediate variation code smile secure day alright someone could pocket continue scene



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Whose Grace is sufficient

posted August 21, 2010 at 2:00 am


HG says:
Agnostics are unconvinced of the existence of supernatural beings such as God or gods of religious foundation…
Mr. Incredible says:
Then you must be unconvinced of the existence of “love” and “beauty.” You must also be unconvinced of the existence of “Time.”
HG says:
… but we avoid claiming absolute knowledge that such do not exist.
Mr. Incredible says:
Mere convenience. Fence-sitting.
HG says:
Certainly, statements proposing a reality beyond “reality as every person knows it” are not possible to disprove. We COULD be the winning exhibit for some seventh grader in another dimension, with all of our experiences having already been recorded prior to the inflationary Big Bang.
I believe it was Rich who claimed atheism, but I think it’s more a matter of semantics than any great divide between how we assess the various explanations behind our current state of existence and how we express our degree of confidence in the lack of evidence of God or gods being absolutely determinative.
Mr. Incredible says:
Are you a robot? Why do you write like a robot? Or worse, an academician, or bureaucrat?

“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who is the true Light Who came in Grace and Truth

posted August 21, 2010 at 2:10 am


HG says:
Agnostics are unconvinced of the existence of supernatural beings such as God or gods…
Mr. Incredible says:
It’s no wonder; they preclude themselves from being convinced — 1 Corinthians 2:14

AND THE LIGHT SHINETH IN DARKNESS; AND THE DARKNESS COMPREHENDED IT NOT.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus, says

posted August 21, 2010 at 2:12 am


Atheists and agnostics argue from a position of inadequate information and experience.

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD !



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HG

posted August 21, 2010 at 2:56 am


hotelscheck, interesting comment. It really stood out among the jibberish being posted by Mr. I Get it Straight from God’s Divine Rod.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Which is, was and is to come

posted August 21, 2010 at 3:22 am


HG says:
hotelscheck, interesting comment. It really stood out among the jibberish being posted by Mr. I
Mr. Incredible says:
You WOULD see my posts as gibberish; after all, 1 Corinthians 2:14. You can’t see them otherwise.



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HG

posted August 21, 2010 at 4:53 am


Mr. Fixate, I can see them (your posts) any way I choose, I have religious liberty.
When you imply through scripture “God says this about that”, you could point to your Bible on a chair, but God doesn’t pull a George Burns–show up and do card tricks. Never happens. You would say that doesn’t matter, proceed to interpret the divinely inspired Word of God contained in your specific Bible edition and then represent those interpretations as facts to others. You must interpret it with your own brain, unless you claim there is no division between your brain and God’s. Surely, you aren’t claiming to share brains with the Almighty. While I must factor in your assurances that the divinity of God’s Word has remained intact from inspiration, to writing, through translation, editing, and your interpretation; there is no verifiable evidence upon which to apply critical analysis, and no story which survives it.
If God has always been, then He Was during the time prior to 1 to the minus forty third power of a second; just prior to the explosive inflationary expansion which we know occured. There was no time prior to that, since time is relative to the expansion. So, IF He exists as the Creator, it must be within or external to this universe. Within the universe would mean His Being is comprised of some fraction of the matter now contained herein just as we are. External to the universe would be more akin to the seventh grade science project from another dimension kind of thing with an unknown mechanism of interaction. Claims of that nature may be inferred from the Bible by some, but I don’t see the Bible as a very good offering by God to serve as supportive evidence of His existence and creation. I find it to be a most unlikely and unsatisfactory description of events.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Whose Words are life

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:39 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD !

HG says:
August 21, 2010 4:53 AM
… I can see them (your posts) any way I choose…
Mr. Incredible says:
You see them as gibberish. 1 Corinthians 2:14 explains your confusion.
HG says:
…I have religious liberty.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which “religion”? How do you practice “religion”? Whom do you worship?
HG says:
When you imply through scripture “God says this about that”…
Mr. Incredible says:
The Word, in no place, says “God says this about that.”
HG says:
…you could point to your Bible…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which one?
HG says:
…on a chair, but God doesn’t pull a George Burns–show up and do card tricks.
Mr. Incredible says:
However, God performs according to His Will. If we ask, according to His Will and in faith, through Christ, He performs. That is our experience. You don’t have that experience. Therefore, you don’t have the authority, nor the credibility, to speak on matters pertaining to God.
HG says:
You would say that doesn’t matter…
Mr. Incredible asks:
What doesn’t matter?
HG says:
… proceed to interpret the divinely inspired Word of God contained in your specific Bible…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which one?
HG says:
… edition…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which one?
HG says:
… and then represent those interpretations as facts to others.
Mr. Incredible says:
2 Peter 1:20
2 Timothy 3:16
HG says:
You must interpret it with your own brain…
Mr. Incredible says:
Interpretation is done by the Holy Spirit and we receive it by revelation through the Word of God.
HG says:
… unless you claim is no division between your brain and God’s.
Mr. Incredible says:
Holy Spirit interpretation is done through the heart, not through the brain. We are connected to God through the Word of God, through the Holy Spirit.
Since you don’t have the experience, you wouldn’t know that. Since you don’t know that, you are utterly incapable of speaking authoritatively, nor competently, on the subject.
HG says:
Surely, you aren’t claiming to share brains with the Almighty.
Mr. Incredible says:
No, we have the mind of Christ [1 Corinthians 2:16] and He makes His Spirit of available to me, through revelation, and I make my spirit available to Him. It’s all done through the Word of God. Again, 1 Corinthians 2:14.
HG says:
While I must factor in your assurances that the divinity of God’s Word has remained intact from inspiration, to writing, through translation, editing, and your interpretation; there is no verifiable evidence upon which to apply critical analysis, and no story which survives it.
Mr. Incredible says:
You’re looking at the Word of God from a perspective that isn’t intended by God for His guidance. Therefore, you cannot have the experience that we have; you preclude yourself from having the experience. Knowing God is all about experience, not Science. Like love and beauty and Time. So, you have nothing but worldly assumptions and philosophies about the Word of God. Worldly assumptions and philosophies about Him mean nothing.
HG says:
If God has always been, then He Was during the time prior to 1 to the minus forty third power of a second; just prior to the explosive inflationary expansion which we know occured.
Mr. Incredible asks:
How do you know for sure? You didn’t see it. And, yet, you say it happened, without your having seen it. And, yet, you say you don’t know whether God exists cuz, as you say, you don’t see Him.
HG says:
There was no time prior to that, since time is relative to the expansion.
Mr. Incredible says:
Of course, you infer that, but you don’t know.
HG says:
So, IF He exists as the Creator, it must be within or external to this universe.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which “universe”?
Of course, that’s cuz you have limited yourself to human perceptions. You’ve precluded yourself from accepting anything else.
HG says:
Within the universe…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which “universe”?
HG says:
… would mean His Being is comprised of some fraction of the matter now contained herein just as we are.
Mr. Incredible says:
However, God is not a man. God exists outside your understanding. That’s cuz you don’t have the experience we have. You have limited yourself to human perceptions. You’ve precluded yourself from accepting anything else.
HG says:
External to the universe…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which “universe”?
HG says:
…would be more akin to the seventh grade science project from another dimension kind of thing with an unknown mechanism of interaction.
Mr. Incredible says:
There is no unknown mechanism of interaction between God and us. It’s unknown to you cuz you don’t have the experience. That’s cuz you have limited yourself to human perceptions. You’ve precluded yourself from accepting anything else.
HG says:
Claims of that nature may be inferred from the Bible…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which “Bible”?
HG says:
… by some, but I don’t see the Bible…
Mr. Incredible says:
Which “Bible”?
HG says:
… as a very good offering by God…
Mr. Incredible says:
So what? He didn’t ask you for your rating. You don’t have the experience to judge. You don’t have the information to judge. You’re outta the loop: 1 Corinthians 2:14.
HG says:
… to serve as supportive evidence of His existence and creation.
Mr. Incredible says:
Of course, there is no way for you to judge, since you don’t have the experience, nor enough information to know. You’ve precluded yourself, through arrogance, from the experience and the information. You’re “dead in the water” without the experience.
HG says:
I find it to be a most unlikely and unsatisfactory description of events.
Mr. Incredible says:
That’s cuz you don’t have the experience of God. You’ve precluded yourself from that experience. Therefore, you have no authoritative, credible background to judge. Without that experience, you have nothing to say worth listening to, regarding God and His Word.

“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who tells those who are born again to "judge Righteous judgment

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:50 am


HG says:
[Mr. Incredible], I can see them (your posts) any way I choose…
Mr. Incredible says:
And you have chosen not to have the experience that would have allowed you not to see them as gibberish. They didn’t go out as gibberish, but you’re seeing gibberish, as explained in 1 Corinthians 2:14. The problem is on YOUR end.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who says that he that is of God hears God Words

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:58 am


HG says:
… I have religious liberty.
Mr. Incredible asks:
What is “religious” about your “liberty”? Is agnosticism a religion now?
If an agnostic has “religious” liberty, he practices a religion. He worships.
Which “religion” is that?

JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !



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churchmouse

posted August 21, 2010 at 12:35 pm


The definition of the word atheism
“The doctrine that there is no God or gods” American Heritage
Doesn’t an atheist say…there is no such thing as a god/gods? Can an atheist prove this? No. He would have to possess all knowledge wouldn’t he? Yes Can anyone possess all knowledge? No
So how could an atheist make a factual statement like that one. At best he would have to say, “My logic tells me there is no god but I just don’t know and can’t prove it.” He believes by faith like anyother person does who believes in god.
The definition of agnostic….”One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.” “One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.”
How is this faulty thinking?
And about Einstein…. I think he really was making the point… that its impossible to know and prove because we just don’t have enough knowledge…we might think we do but we don’t. In a way he was making a joke here. He would be the first to admit that he certainly didn’t know everything, certainly not enough to prove or disprove the existence of God.
Charles said, “The mere fact that HG stated he is an atheist proves that it is possible to make the statement “I am an atheist.”
Anyone can say anything they want to say just to say it…I am not talking about this. I could say…I play for the Dallas Cowboys football team…but saying it does not make it true none the less. The statement is not true.
I am talking about the content of what is said. If someone says in this case THERE IS NO GOD as a factual statement.
It is clearly impossible to prove atheism, because this proof would require what philosophers define as a negative existential-that is….. a statement to the effect that a certain thing does not exist. To prove this statement, we would literally have to review every single “thing” and verify that it is not the “thing” (in this case God) that is being sought. This is impossible.
To add to the discussion that Mr. Incredible is having with HG I would like to add this…
In the case of origin of life there are really only two alternatives: 1) random chance-the most popular idea and 2) special creation (by God). If we can prove that one is impossible, then the other is certain. I believe origin by random chance has proven to be impossible.
But when we evaluate the likelihood of the Bible that contains hundreds of perfectly correct prophecies, we find the statistical odds to be beyond reason without Gods involvement. So this uses a commonly accepted form of statistical proof to verify than any atheist can offer.
While it’s impossible for an atheist to prove the nonexistence of God, it certainly is not impossible to prove the existence of god using the same standards as they use to build bridges



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HG

posted August 21, 2010 at 4:28 pm


churchmouse: “I believe origin by random chance has proven to be impossible.”
No, Abiogenesis has been shown to be quite possible.
churchmouse: “the Bible that contains hundreds of perfectly correct prophecies,…”
Which Bible? What prophecies?
churchmouse: “we find the statistical odds to be beyond reason without Gods involvement.”
We find the statistical odds of there being any gods to be 0.0000*.
*continually updated for changes.
However, the odds that something which is KNOWN to have happened (human life is an observed phenomena, god life isn’t) happening spontaneously sometime during the last few billion years seem very VERY (very very very) high. I wonder what God was doing during those several BILLION years between the creation of the universe and the evolutive ascent of man…cosmic whacking?
churchmouse: “…it certainly is not impossible to prove the existence of god using the same standards as they use to build bridges”
Sorry, you lost me there. I know of no metric used in building bridges which can be used to prove the existence of god. If it could be done, the information would be available—it isn’t. People are invited to have faith, to believe in this One or that One,…but there is no credible proof of any God or gods existence. Zero.
As for Mr. Fixate asking “Which Universe?”, I must admit to being aware of only the one in which we all exist in time and space.
As for “Which Bible?”, ANY Bible, HIS personal Bible included.
Very happy to have my religious liberty here in America, thanks to the Constitution. Very glad that we are not commanded by law to believe, and profess belief in, a fictional story like the Bible (Any Bible, they are all lame.)



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who is the True Light Who came in Grace and in Truth

posted August 21, 2010 at 5:57 pm


churchmouse says:
I believe origin by random chance has proven to be impossible.
HG says:
No, Abiogenesis has been shown to be quite possible.
Mr. Incredible says:
A lotta things are “quite possible.” Not certain. Not probable. A lotta things are “quite” impossible, too.
Prove that there is such a thing as origin by random chance, that origin nothing produced origin something, purely on its own, with no agent acting on it to originate it, that the origin something is it’s own origin and of its own making.
churchmouse says:
we find the statistical odds to be beyond reason without Gods involvement.
HG says:
We find the statistical odds of being any gods to be 0.0000*.
*continually updated for changes.
Mr. Incredible says:
Give us the link to credible and authoritative, uncorrupted and unbiased statistics that prove it.
Statistics can be jeopardized by manipulation. What they seem to say may not be what they say it all. What they are alleged to say may be only what the one quoting them wants them to say. You have a worldly agenda. The world cannot be trusted. Therefore, your quoting statistics cannot be trusted.
HG says:
However, the odds that something which is KNOWN to have happened (human life is an observed phenomena [sic]…
Mr. Incredible says:
Yes, everybody can see that there is what is called “human life.” Man is God’s Special Creation. Again, you have an amazing grasp of the obvious.
HG says:
…god…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which “god”?
HG says:
…life isn’t)…
Mr. Incredible says:
As far as YOU know. That isn’t very far. 1 Corinthians 2:14.
HG says:
… happening spontaneously sometime during the last few billion years seem very VERY (very very very) high.
Mr. Incredible says:
The key word there is “seem.” It signifies subjectivity. YOUR subjectivity.
HG says:
I wonder what God was doing during those several BILLION years between the creation of the universe and the evolutive ascent of man…cosmic whacking?
Mr. Incredible says:
Irrelevant to the spiritual journey through the Word of God.
churchmouse says:
… it certainly is not impossible to prove the existence of god using the same standards as they use to build bridges
HG says:
Sorry, you lost me.
Mr. Incredible says:
Of course, you admitted that it’s all gibberish, as explained in 1 Corinthians 2:14. You’ll never understand. That’s cuz you have precluded yourself from understanding. That’s cuz you have precluded yourself from the experience of God. God is not a matter of Science, rather of experience, like love and beauty. Even Time.
HG says:
I know of no metric used in building bridges which can be used to prove the existence of god.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which “god”?
Of course, you answered a question to which he didn’t refer.
He doesn’t refer to “metrics,” “a set of measurements.” All he says is that you use worldly standards in questioning the existence of God, and we who have the experience with God use the vast amount of knowledge, understanding and comprehension that you don’t have and refuse to have, even though it is made available to you. Not very scientific to preclude yourself from the information about something you say the information YOU have that YOU say indicates that there is, as YOU would have it, no God. Just cuz YOU don’t see God doesn’t mean there’s no God. It means only that you don’t see God. You’ve precluded yourself from seeing Him. You refuse the experience. That’s nobody’s fault but your own, and it’s not very scientific to turn down information and understanding and comprehension that is critical to the equation.
HG says:
If it could be done, the information would be available—it isn’t.
Mr. Incredible says:
You preclude yourself from any information about it. You shut yourself off from any experience with it. Therefore, you’re in no position to offer anything authoritative, nor credible, on the subject of God.
HG says:
People are invited to have faith, to believe in this One or that One,…but there is no credible proof of any God or gods existence.
Mr. Incredible says:
None that you’ve precluded yourself from believing, anyway.
HG says:
Zero.
Mr. Incredible says:
No “credible proof” that you can see in your little corner of the world. In the other corner of the world of experience of God, there is. However, you choose to refuse to experience anything outside your limited experience.
HG quotes Mr. Incredible as asking:
“Which Universe?”
HG says:
I must admit to being aware of only the one in which we all exist in time and space.
Mr. Incredible says:
And unaware of all the others. Glad to see you admit it. Finally.
HG says:
As for “Which Bible?”, ANY Bible, HIS personal Bible included.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Even your “bible”?
HG says:
Very happy to have my religious liberty…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Within which “religion” do you have liberty??
HG says:
Very glad that we are not commanded by law to believe…
Mr. Incredible says:
Nobody says otherwise.
HG says:
…and profess belief in…
Mr. Incredible says:
Nobody says otherwise.
HG says:
… a fictional story like the Bible (Any Bible, they are all lame.)
Mr. Incredible asks:
Even your “bible”?

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD OVER THE HILLS AND THROUGH THE VALLEYS !



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HG

posted August 21, 2010 at 5:58 pm


Universe: The totality of all the things that exist.
re: “Which Universe?”
Ah-HAH-Hah-Hah-hah-hah-ha-HA-ha. Which Universe, that’s a good one. Perhaps Mr. Wormhole to Nowhere will give supporting evidence of additional Universes. I doubt it. One reality exists and is observable. All of Mr. There Are Other Universes conjecture is unsupported by evidence. His imagination, though obviously tremendous, is, in fact, confined to this Universe.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Whose Grace is sufficient

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:01 pm


“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus

HG says:
As for Mr. Fixate asking…
Mr. Incredible says:
Fixated on God, through Christ! What a deal!



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HG

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:10 pm


Mr. Unarmed Drone: “Within which “religion” do you have liberty??”
I have religious liberty across the entire spectrum of belief relating to religion. Any, at any time, or none all the time. It seems incongrous that this simple concept is beyond the same individual who knows of the existence of other universes. Lame.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus, the True Light

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:11 pm


Mr. Incredible asks:
Which Universe?
HG says:
Universe: The totality of all the things that exist.
Mr. Incredible asks:
The totality of all things that exist in which universe?
HG says:
Perhaps Mr. Wormhole to Nowhere will give supporting evidence of additional Universes. I doubt it.
Mr. Incredible says:
Within one universe, there is your universe and there is our universe. The posts on this blog prove that.
HG says:
One reality exists…
Mr. Incredible says:
The “reality” YOU want us to believe.
HG says:
… and is observable.
Mr. Incredible says:
You’ve made your “reality” known. We see it. We reject it.
HG says:
All of Mr. There Are Other Universes conjecture is unsupported by evidence.
Mr. Incredible says:
The evidence YOU choose to accept for your own purposes. There is evidence you choose to reject. That’s cuz you reject any experience that will show you that God exists. That’s not our fault.
HG says:
His imagination, though obviously tremendous, is, in fact, confined to this Universe.
Mr. Incredible says:
I’m not confined to YOUR universe.

AND THE LIGHT SHINETH IN DARKNESS; AND THE DARKNESS COMPREHENDED IT NOT.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who says hears God's Words

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:25 pm


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD OVER THE HILLS AND THROUGH THE VALLEYS !

Mr. Incredible says:
Within which “religion” do you have liberty??
HG says:
I have religious liberty across the entire spectrum of belief relating to religion.
Mr. Incredible says:
Except that, if you have no religion, there is no liberty for you to experience regarding “religion.” You’re not practicing “religion.” You say that you have no need for “religion.” If you have no need for “religion,” you have no need to exercise “religious” liberty. If you have no need to exercise “religious” liberty, the First Amendment doesn’t apply to you cuz it applies to those who practice and worship. You don’t practice and worship. You reject practice and worship.
HG says:
Any, at any time, or none all the time.
Mr. Incredible says:
No “religion,” nothing “religious.” You have “religious” liberty when you begin to practice and worship.
HG says:
It seems incongrous that this simple concept…
Mr. Incredible says:
A concept that is a product of YOUR “reality.”
HG says:
… is beyond the same individual who knows of the existence of other universes.
Mr. Incredible says:
Thanks for admitting that I know the existence of other universes.



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HG

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:34 pm


“Within one universe, there is your universe and there is our universe.”
Hah-hah-hah, that’s hilarious! What part of “The totatlity of all the things that exist.” don’t you understand? Hah! What a maroon! Correct use of language, and the comprehension of its written form, would be valuable assets to Mr. I Don’t Get It, but that seems to be asking too much. Whether written “robotically” or otherwise, words have meaning. Dictionaries exist. It’s possible to determine what somebody is attempting to convey when both understand the words used. Mr. Fixate uses words to obfuscate meaning, implying separate universes within THE Universe alters the very meaning of the word. No wonder he’s so confused!



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Whose Words cleanse

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:34 pm


HG says:
Perhaps Mr. Wormhole to Nowhere will give supporting evidence of additional Universes.
Mr. Incredible says:
There are many universes within universes. It all depends on the orientations of those operating any of the universes.
For example, you are in a universe that rejects all other universes. You cannot see outside your universe. Therefore, you say there are no other universes. That doesn’t mean there aren’t other universes, only that, according to your limited experience, you don’t see other universes and you prefer to preclude yourself from seeing other universes cuz your universe, to YOU, is WWAAAAYYYY comfortable. To YOU. You choose to reject all information that would tell you that there are other universes. So be it. Not our problem.

“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus



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Aint no mo green beans

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:50 pm


We all need to do our research on our governing officials and then we will be able to understand why things such as this exist.
Now, As we all know, or maybe a few, Obama is not a Christian. Remember this. He has very little knowledge of God’s purpose for mankind, as well as those alike who are in high governing positions.
Obama not too long ago mocked the Old Testament during one of his speeches. This shows a bit of ignorance on his behalf.
He is also part of the antichrist agenda. He is not the antichrist himself. He is just part of it.
And Obama’s real name is Barry Soretoro. Why did he change his name?
Also he is related to George W. Bush. Imagine that. Im going somewhere with this.
George Bush is part of the secret society Skull and Bones, and he is also part of the Illuminati. See many people do not talk about this, or they overlook it because to some, they feel like this is not important, when in fact it truly is important.
These demonic societies have everything to do with the hidden agendas they continue to conspire on a daily basis.
Did you know Obama is for the New World Order?
So it does not surprise me that Obama is for building this mosque.
He is doing this out of ignorance.
He also has descendants in the Middle East. So should this surprise any of us?
I believe the religion that fits under the New World Order is the Muslim religion. And many will be forced to convert.



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:51 pm


Mr. Incredible says:
“Within one universe, there is your universe and there is our universe.
HG says:
Hah-hah-hah, that’s hilarious!
Mr. Incredible says:
No problem.
HG says:
What part of “The totatlity of all the things that exist.” don’t you understand?
Mr. Incredible says:
I understand it all. What part of my question, “‘ The totality of all the things that exist’ in which universe” don’t YOU understand?
HG says:
Hah! What a maroon!
Mr. Incredible says:
Romans 8:1 [KJV]
HG says:
Correct use of language…
Mr. Incredible says:
Said by one who can’t tell the difference between “phenomenon” and “phenomena.”
HG says:
… and the comprehension of its written form…
Mr. Incredible says:
You’ve written according to the experience in YOUR universe. You preclude yourself from the experience in/of God’s and our universe. Therefore, you have nothing of value to say to us about our experience.
HG says:
Whether written “robotically” or otherwise, words have meaning.
Mr. Incredible says:
No, people have meaning. They may misuse words and convey meaning other than what they intend, they may, as YOU do, from your universe, manipulate words to convey who knows what, they may read words that looked to be gibberish, but are not.
HG says:
Dictionaries exist.
Mr. Incredible says:
The dictionary is not a lawgiver. It is a history-of-usage book.
HG says:
It’s possible to determine what somebody is attempting to convey when both understand the words used.
Mr. Incredible says:
The individual words may be found in the dictionary. The meaning of the entire group of words in a sentence cannot be found in the dictionary.
Clear meaning is the responsibility of the person who writes the sentence, not the reader.
HG says:
Mr. Fixate…
Mr. Incredible says:
Fixated on God, through Christ! What a deal! Thanks for recognizing it.
HG says:
… uses words to obfuscate meaning…
Mr. Incredible says:
I’m not the one who writes like a robot, or a bureaucrat.
HG says:
… implying separate universes within THE Universe…
Mr. Incredible says:
Good. You DO understand that. Now we’re getting somewhere.
HG says:
… alters the very meaning of the word.
Mr. Incredible says:
I changed nothing.
HG says:
No wonder he’s so confused!
Mr. Incredible says:
God, through Christ, unconfused me. PRAISE THE LORD!



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus

posted August 21, 2010 at 6:58 pm


If Imam Obammy is Christian, where is his reference to Jesus any given time?
How much time does he gives to the study of the Word of God, in order to show himself approved of God?
When has he spoken of the love of God, through Christ, and the communication of that love, through Christ, to others?



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name

posted August 21, 2010 at 7:01 pm


Ain’t no mo green beans,
You got it right and correct!



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name, who tests the spirits

posted August 21, 2010 at 7:05 pm


CORRECTION
does he gives — — > does he give



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who says, "Come and see"

posted August 21, 2010 at 7:13 pm


Don’t forget that, according to Islam, the son of a Muslim is Muslim, and the middle name of Imam Obammy, America’s first Muslim president, is “Hussein,” a name reserved only for Muslims [ http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=193749 ].



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name

posted August 21, 2010 at 7:30 pm


When will the secularist girlie-boy screaming start about the Obammy Admin paying, for the fourth time, for a trip to the Near East by the imam of that proposed Hamasque? We haven’t heard a peep about the so-called “separation of Church and State,” regarding this. Gee, we wonder why.
Whose side are these secularists on? We think we know.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Whose Words are spirit and are life

posted August 21, 2010 at 7:36 pm


2 Timothy 2:15
In what way has America’s first Muslim president, Imam Obammy, conformed to that?



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HG

posted August 21, 2010 at 7:47 pm


“God’s and our universe.”
Ahh, only those individuals who “experience” God in the same way you do (as directed by the same edition of the Bible you claim represents the ONLY way one can have this “experience” with God) can detect this “universe” which exists invisibly throughout, and extended beyond all measures of, time and space)? This “universe” you conjure, what proof do you offer other than your interpretation of a book you claim to be the divinely inspired Word of God? Zilch. Nada. Your claims are worthless in a court of law and to all who demand PROOF beyond “because I know God’s Word in my heart”. Anyone can make that claim, and millions do–but they don’t all seem to know the same Word or perceive the same “universe” as you. They use different Bibles, some even have different names for God. Your willingness to claim powers beyond mortal understanding are not unique, nor is your inability to provide ANY proof that could be accepted in a court of law. No, I don’t believe story on mere insistance that it’s true.
I will gladly amend my use of the word phenomenon to phenomena, thank you, unless I simply fail to notice that I’ve changed the structure of the sentence around it to indicate plurality–I don’t often proof what I write here or correct typos or internal punctuation such as quotation marks. Sorry, but not very. You seem to have a fetish about such things, but only when it concerns the writings of certain people–otherwise you are often able to decipher the most god-awful mess without difficulty or comment. It’s okay with me, I strive for improvement. When something is adequately proved as correct to me, I will replace my incorrect, or less correct, understanding to reflect it. That, of course, is how I came to abandon my belief in God.



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Charles Thomas

posted August 21, 2010 at 8:04 pm


“Within one universe,there is your universe and our universe”
Spoken like a true relativist.



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HG

posted August 21, 2010 at 8:21 pm


Most who read our comments here should find it easy to understand that they have religious freedom, the choice of whether or not to believe in any god.
Those who rely on their brain to do the thinking will not follow the childishly insistant rant of someone who makes unsupported claims of multiple universes and realities. Those who choose to reason with other parts of their body, may find all the support there that they need.
However, there is continuing growth among the better educated countries of the world in the number of people holding no religious affiliation. This will continue. It is a result of evolution, which will also continue. God belief is a dinosaur that was too stupid to fall into the nearest tar pit, but it will be totally supplanted by superior reasoning someday. What is, is.



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HG

posted August 21, 2010 at 10:57 pm


Mr. Fixate: “We haven’t heard a peep about the so-called “separation of Church and State,” regarding this. Gee, we wonder why.”
I’ve twice commented here that spending tax money in support of any religion or religious endeavor is unconstitutional. Jay and his legal team are taking great pains to NOT go there because it would add to precedents which recognize strict separation between religion and government. This is the kind of law that Jay wants to muddle, not reinforce! Maybe these people who don’t want the community center built should ask the ACLU to intervene–that is, if the laws regarding separation haven’t already been too muddled by the encroachers.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus, the Savior

posted August 22, 2010 at 12:15 am


Mr. Incredible says:
God’s and our universe.
HG says:
Ahh, only those individuals who “experience” God in the same way you do…
Mr. Incredible says:
God, like love, beauty and Time, is not subject to scientific proof’s. God is a matter of experience. You are on the side that precludes that experience. Therefore, nothing you say about God, from YOUR experience over there, has any value to our experience of God.
HG says:
…(as directed by the same edition of the Bible…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which “edition”? Which “Bible”?
HG says:
… you claim…
Mr. Incredible says:
God says.
HG says:
… represents the ONLY way one can have this “experience” with God)…
Mr. Incredible says:
John 14:6
HG says:
… can detect this “universe” which exists invisibly throughout…
Mr. Incredible says:
All those who are warned of God — that is, born again — have this experience of God. You have chosen to preclude yourself from that experience.
HG says:
… and extended beyond all measures of, time and space)?
Mr. Incredible says:
God cannot be measured. He’s bigger than measurement.
HG says:
This “universe”…
Mr. Incredible says:
Which one?
HG says:
… you conjure…
Mr. Incredible says:
They exist apart from anything I can “conjure.” Mine is merely a realization.
HG says:
…what proof do you offer other than your interpretation of a book you claim to be the divinely inspired Word of God? Zilch. Nada.
Mr. Incredible says:
See? You preclude yourself from the experience. That shows that you really don’t wanna know, just as I said.
HG says:
Your claims are worthless…
Mr. Incredible says:
To YOU. But so what?
HG says:
… in a court of law…
Mr. Incredible says:
Actually, no they aren’t. I may refer to my experience of God in, say, the jury room.
HG says:
…and to all who demand PROOF beyond “because I know God’s Word in my heart”.
Mr. Incredible says:
The proof is there for all who wanna know. You want not to know, as you demonstrated above. So, you don’t.
HG says:
Anyone can make that claim, and millions do–but they don’t all seem to know the same Word or perceive the same “universe” as you.
Mr. Incredible says:
Oh, well.
HG says:
They use different Bibles…
Mr. Incredible says:
Their choice.
HG says:
… some even have different names for God.
Mr. Incredible says:
Even in the Word of God God has different names.
HG says:
Your willingness to claim powers beyond mortal understanding are not unique…
Mr. Incredible says:
God claims them for me. I merely receive them, in the Name of Jesus.
HG says:
… nor is your inability to provide ANY proof…
Mr. Incredible says:
None that YOU’LL accept, anyway.
HG says:
… that could be accepted in a court of law.
Mr. Incredible says:
Irrelevant. God isn’t subject to our courts of law. Our laws don’t prove Him. That’s not their purpose. He is also not subject to the rules of procedure and evidence in court. He isn’t a matter of rules and procedures. He’s a matter of experience. Experience you don’t have. From that lack of experience, you can’t speak on matters of God cuz you don’t have what it takes to speak on matters of God.
HG says:
I will gladly amend my use of the word phenomenon to phenomena, thank you, unless I simply fail to notice that I’ve changed the structure of the sentence around it to indicate plurality…
Mr. Incredible says:
There is no such indication.
HG says:
–I don’t often proof what I write here…
Mr. Incredible says:
We notice that.
HG says:
… or correct typos or internal punctuation such as quotation marks.
Mr. Incredible says:
So you’re not very meticulous. We get that from your posts.
HG says:
Sorry, but not very.
Mr. Incredible says:
I don’t care.
HG says:
You seem…
Mr. Incredible says:
Setting us up for something subjective.
HG says:
… to have a fetish about such things…
Mr. Incredible says:
I just like to write things exactly as I mean them. Of course, as 1 Corinthians 2:14 explains, what I write is gibberish to YOU.
HG says:
…but only when it concerns the writings of certain people–otherwise you are often able to decipher the most god-awful mess without difficulty or comment.
Mr. Incredible says:
That’s cuz people like you have an agenda that requires super-extra attention. It takes somebody like me to expose you and your subliminal messages. People like you require correction, and I’m here to give it.
HG says:
It’s okay with me…
Mr. Incredible says:
I don’t need permission.
HG says:
… I strive for improvement.
Mr. Incredible says:
Then, why do you hide it?
HG says:
When something is adequately proved as correct to me, I will replace my incorrect, or less correct, understanding to reflect it.
Mr. Incredible says:
So do I. Except that I’ve never seen you correct anything you wrote.
HG says:
That, of course, is how I came to abandon my belief in God.
Mr. Incredible says:
You talked yourselves into persuasion, and, today, you continue the error.

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD !



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name

posted August 22, 2010 at 12:16 am


“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus

HG says:
Most who read our comments here should find it easy to understand that they have religious freedom, the choice of whether or not to believe in any god.
Mr. Incredible says:
Nobody says otherwise. However, even if somebody claims not to believe in any god, by default they believe in a god. They believe in the power of something, or someone, over them, like a great car, or a great stereo, or money. There is never an absence of belief in some power over you. The only question is whether that power is ultimately sin nature power, or Godly nature power.
HG says:
Those who rely on their brain to do the thinking…
Mr. Incredible says:
The brain can be deceived. HG is proof of that.
HG says:
… will not follow the childishly insistant rant of someone who makes unsupported claims of multiple universes and realities.
Mr. Incredible says:
As I say, that statement is prove that you’ve been deceived.
HG says:
Those who choose to reason with other parts of their body, may find all the support there that they need.
Mr. Incredible asks:
In other words, a pilot, an IMC, should rely on his feelings, is that it?
HG says:
However, there is continuing growth among the better educated countries of the world in the number of people holding no religious affiliation.
Mr. Incredible says:
So what? You’re advising people to follow the crowd??
I can see you now, in 1939, in Berlin, goose-steppin’ along and sayin’, “C’mon, go along!”
HG says:
This will continue.
Mr. Incredible says:
Well, God says He will save only a remnant, only a few. Christ says that only a few will find the gate. I’m glad I don’t follow the crowd, rather follow God, through Christ.
HG says:
It is a result of evolution…
Mr. Incredible asks:
“Evolution” of what?
HG says:
which will also continue.
Mr. Incredible says:
How does it feel to promote the correctness of prophecy? People like you are helping prophecy come true. All I can say is, “Thanks!”
HG says:
God belief is a dinosaur that was too stupid to fall into the nearest tar pit, but it will be totally supplanted by superior reasoning someday.
Mr. Incredible says:
So, you’re superior to God, is that it?
HG says:
What is, is.
Mr. Incredible asks:
What is?



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Whose Words are spirit and life

posted August 22, 2010 at 12:18 am


JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD OVER THE HILLS AND THROUGH THE VALLEYS !

HG says:
Mr. Fixate…
Mr. Incredible says:
I’m fixated on God, through Christ! What a deal! Thanks for recognizing it!



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus the Son of God

posted August 22, 2010 at 12:19 am


Mr. Incredible says:
We haven’t heard a peep about the so-called “separation of Church and State,” regarding this. Gee, we wonder why.
HG says:
I’ve twice commented here that spending tax money in support of any religion or religious endeavor is unconstitutional.
Mr. Incredible says:
Except that you haven’t screamed and whined like a little girly boy about the money the Obammy Admin has paid and is paying for the Hamasque imam to go to the Near East on a religious tour. Silence must be taken as acquiescence.
If the Administration of America’s first Muslim president, Imam Obammy, paid a Christian to go on a religious tour, nobody would have to prod you to say anything.
Now, all of a sudden, after prodding, you say something general about tax money and support in the rest of that crap. You had to be prodded. You had to be reminded. Nobody has to remind you to bash Christians and Christianity. Heh.
HG says:
Jay and his legal team are taking great pains to NOT go there because it would add to precedents which recognize strict separation between religion and government. This is the kind of law that Jay wants to muddle, not reinforce! Maybe these people who don’t want the community center built should ask the ACLU to intervene–that is, if the laws regarding separation haven’t already been too muddled by the encroachers.
Mr. Incredible says:
YOU people are the ones screaming, “SEPARATION!!!” Why, when it comes to public money being given to this imam character to go on a religious tour of the Near East, does it take something along the lines of pulling teeth out of a chicken to treat this the way you would treat public money being given to a Christian to go on a religious tour? Whatever happened to equal treatment?? Equal application?? What a bunch-a hypocrites you people are!!



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Christ Who is the ONLY Way to the Father

posted August 22, 2010 at 4:17 am


HG says:
Ahh, only those individuals who “experience” God in the same way you do..
Mr. Incredible says:
Yes, through Christ Who is the ONLY Way to the Father. [John 14:6]
So, there IS no other way.



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name Which is above all names

posted August 22, 2010 at 4:21 am


CORRECTION
is prove —-> is proof



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Your Name

posted August 22, 2010 at 5:07 pm


Story Part Three
—————-
To set the record straight:
No I am not a hooker, or ever was.
No I did not receive money for any hookerish agendas.
Yes, I said things sarcastically to show how idiotic the hooker industry and all their clientele are.
Yes, I was sick at the time and passing out.
Yes, like the idiot mentalities of todays society, they took me seriously as if I was one, and attacked me.
Yes, they lied to get out of saying what they really did, to make it appear as if I was the one with the problem.
Yes, they took me in front of a church inapropriately dressed.
Yes, they offered me the morning after pill.
Yes, I think I was drugged.
I think your a hypocrit for trying to place blame on me, like I wanted an affair. Big lie on your part, you did, not me..
Yes, you told me you were getting a divorce.
And, once again, I told you to go back to your wife because I did not want any part of it.
Yes, I think you touched me completely unappropriately.
Yes, I think your a joke of a man to leave me without funds to take care of myself.
Yes, I think your abusive in giving it to others, and leaving me without my children and a place to live and provide.
Yes, I think that I was trying to stop an abortion.
Yes, I think your a rotten human being for trying to use a horrible situation for your advantage of trying to appear like your the savior to save the day.
Yes, if it were not for God I would be dead.
Yes, I think the church has a lot to work on in regards to their individual behavior in accountability.
Yes, I thought the whole thing was a horrible thing to have gone through, given that these were so called world leaders, and yes I think that you tried to save your own skin and left me with nothing but a broken heart from the illusion that people could be different from the rest of the world..
NO, I don’t think that you have changed a bit.
In fact I saw you go on t.v. like you didn’t do a thing…
and no, I am not talking about everyone involved in the community.
Some are so stuck on their high horse of hypocrisy, that they point the finger as if they know what they are talking about and to what really happened and what my perception is…
—————–
So, you forgive, despite the faults in others and what they do, and you move on. For that is the Christian view, rightio…cc



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Your Name

posted August 22, 2010 at 5:14 pm


p.s.
And yes, I thought you were my husband, my boyfriend, or my dad when I was passing out…
So therefor, I didn’t know it was you, or what you were doing.
End of story!
Or, I recognized your voiced from t.v. land. Like it was the television or something…, obviously it was not and you were there.
As for pictures taken, when your passing out, you and perhaps have been drugged, I don’t know what you did and how you got them and why you would think it was appropriate to take those pictures and show them to anybody else.. If I was perhaps perceived in a questionable dressing atire, then just maybe you took completed advantage of the situation without my knowledge, or the ability to stop you.
So, no my reputation will not be ruined based on your abusive behavior or your agenda or the females or males trying to get some slanderous rumor started to either further their career or ruin my own. And yes I think there are a lot of people jealous and trying to hurt me with all sorts of things.. And no I don’t care what your body looks like and I am not trying to compete with you. I saw you as trying to sleep with my husband, boyfriend or future fiance, however you want to perceive it… Filth…!
cc



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Your Name

posted August 22, 2010 at 5:16 pm


And why would I post this on a web sight with an article pertaining to mosques, well if we haven’t got the Christian church right, then how are we going to explain to the rest of the world why and who we are as a Church body..
What was the No about….
The fact that you were not their and you didn’t give a damn!
CC



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Your Name

posted August 22, 2010 at 5:18 pm


there
their
Sorry, that is what happens when you left me for dead and you did not care other then to put more money in your pocket and drive off with another pretty girl and pull into your new house….good bye!



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David Q Public

posted August 22, 2010 at 6:02 pm


I HAVE A GREAT IDEA…. why don’t you ignore Mr incredulous. he /she is obviously a mocking fool who needs to learn what civil means. so, if everyone quit inciting this idiot. he/she may not go away but at least by ignoring the bitter rants maybe all the lesson that we could teach.



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HG

posted August 22, 2010 at 6:33 pm


Even CC’s reality, as bizarre as it is, is wholly contained within the time and space of The Universe (within the “totality of all the things that exist.”) You see, if the Universe holds the totality, then there is nothing that exists which isn’t included in it–by definition, there can be no “other” universes within or exterior to The Universe. So, for someone to insist that they “know” of other universes, they must change the definition of the word. It makes communication difficult when word definitions are arbitrarily changed.
If God exists, then our Universe IS God, It being the only thing which has always existed, and containing everything that exists. What is, is.
Mr. Fixate: “What is?”
Exactly.
HG: “…but there is no credible proof of any God or gods existence.”
Mr. Fixate: “None that you’ve precluded yourself from believing, anyway.”
First he says I have precluded myself from believing, then that I haven’t–can’t make up his feeble mind.
HG: “That, of course, is how I came to abandon my belief in God.”
Mr. Fixate: “You talked yourselves into persuasion, and, today, you continue the error.”
I talked myselves into persuasion? Am I plural? What does “talking oneself into persuasion” mean? Not much, at least using given definitions.
HG: “Most…understand that they have religious freedom, the choice of whether or not to believe in any god.”
Mr. Fixate: “Nobody says otherwise.”
Excellent, glad he finally agrees that the choice to not believe in any god is included in religious freedom. Progess.



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HG

posted August 22, 2010 at 6:55 pm


David Q Public, you are right. Great idea, I’m game, but I seriously doubt it will serve to reduce the volume of his “contributions”.



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Anan E. Maus

posted August 23, 2010 at 11:46 am


Like a lot of stories, I think this is as much about the media trying to create controversy as anything else.
Is this even a real issue? How many mosques are there in NYC? Probably hundreds. And there probably already are a bunch as close to the World Trade Center site as this one.
Has anyone been in NYC lately? The Hell’s Angels have a headquarters in the lower East Side. The Mafia have hangouts all over NYC. NYC is evil central. What are you going to do? Only let Ozzie and Harriet rent real estate there?
I think this is a non-issue.
Do I think the Muslim community should say, “you know, this offends a lot of people, ok…we should not go forward” – yeah, I think they should.
If they don’t want to then we have to obey our Constitution and let legal actions commence. If they have a legal right to be there, then we have to let them be there.



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Al

posted August 24, 2010 at 7:19 am


A few factual inaccuracies in this article: it’s not a mosque but rather an Islamic Community Center with a prayer room. Sort of like a YMCA. Moreover, While Ground Zero is sacred ground, the center is proposed to be built a couple of blocks away in a residential neighborhood containing, among other things, a strip club called The Pussycat Lounge. Why is it ok to get a lap dance near ground zero but wrong for Muslims to gather in peace?
I’m embarrassed by my fellow americans inability to take an objective look at facts surrounding this issue.



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Your Name

posted August 24, 2010 at 6:15 pm


Clarification:
And no, I did not want to marry a married president or want one to get a divorce.
I simply thought before I was married that I could move in to The White House and pick out some new china and decorate the rooms, and be a great first lady..
Nor, had I ever intended on getting involved with anyone other then my husband..
Nor, did I expect international pastors and the like to take advantage of me in that way and try and make it out like I was the problem, when all the while they were the guys who took advantage of me in that condition.
Not to mention being passed out afterward and coming semi coherent and wanting to get some rest and having them take me to another location and abusing me there, for whatever reason they thought they were doing it, I certainly was not able to defend myself in my condition, seeing how sick I was and that I still think that I was drugged. And they tried to pass it off, like I wanted to have an affair with them and I was a loosey goosey…., far be it from the truth. I was trying to hold off until I got married… Too bad that the person that I was involved with did not take it serious enough to value it in the way that I did..
So there you have it…c



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JJB

posted August 25, 2010 at 5:26 am


I say a big “NO” to the said mosque, allowing it is a big insult to those who lost their lives in the 9-11 attacks. It is not an issue of religion, it’s an issue of dignity. Do you want the people to remember the pain brought by the attacks in the name of Islam, shame on you if you allow this mosque in ground zero!



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cindy

posted August 25, 2010 at 6:24 am


I say a big NO to this also. Too many people lost their lives because of it and it should stay “HOLY GROUND” I am from NEW YORK and as a citizen of there I fully object to it being built there. our people lost their lives b/c of them.To much has been taken for granted from us americans already. so NO TO THEM BUILDING ON GROUND ZERO!



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Dianne

posted August 25, 2010 at 9:21 am


I am simply amazed… for any religious sect to put their individual religion higher than the good of all considered seems to say that the religion is simply selfish and self-serving…
Imagine if the roles were reversed and an american attack had devastated a muslim community IN THEIR OWN Country — would that same muslim community embrace an american religious center near or on those grounds?
What seems to be missing is use of common sense and having respect for each other — it seems we have lost the basic principles of living in harmony. Very sad… for all.



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Frank Kearns Sr

posted August 25, 2010 at 11:14 am


While we are fighting over the right of the muslims to build a mosque so close to the 9-11 disaster site, the muslims are fighting even harder to invade the “american” way of life by coming closer and closer to bringing their Sheriah law to our shores. Everyone should read autobiography,JOYS OF MUSLIM WOMEN, written by Nonie Darwish, a
former muslim who is now a christian. Shesays the goal of radical Islamists is to impose Shariah law on the world, ripping Western law and liberty in two.She givers further graphic details of how the muslims treat their women. I urge all american as possible to read this article writen by this former muslim who saw the light and got out and is now telling the world of her experience.



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PJ

posted August 25, 2010 at 1:39 pm


Lou Barletta, Republican nominee in PA11, released a statement that contained the following – “The area around the site of the former World Trade Center is hallowed ground, and we need to treat it as such.” How many feel that way? And if so, answer me this…is it ok as far as the sacredness of the site to have a strip club that is actually in view of Ground Zero? Or an off track betting club located closer than the proposed mosque/cultural center? Please tell me how these don’t affect the hallowdness of the site…it seems you are ok with anything but a mosque….



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BJG

posted August 25, 2010 at 2:16 pm


Of course this is a case of religious freedom, but it also extends beyond simple religion to a deep cultural divide. It has bubbled to the surface of our society as a case of “Us vs. Them.”
If this were a simply religious disagreement – or more accurately a debate over the how we govern various religious organizations – I’d suggest:
1. The “Christians” here are not demonstrating any sense of forgiveness. And I cannot blame them – what was done to so many innocents, and to America at large, was done in the name of Islam. Al Qaeda has been quite clear about their enmity and desire to bring down Western culture. No one among us thinks we should simply roll over and let them attack us again. Still, the “Christians” seem to be acting very war-like; I’m not hearing much that is “Christ-like.”
2. The “Muslims” behind this seem to be quite accepting of the actions of, and motivations behind, the 9-11 attack. Wouldn’t this be a wonderful opportunity to stand against the fundamentalist mindset, to reject the events of 9-11 in the clearest possible way? But, again, those who want to establish this mosque seem totally blind to the hurt that was done, and want to stand on their rights, as if to gain another tactical battle position.
In short, we have only extreme versions of Christianity and Islam at play here. Most of us would like to see a closing of the gap, but this doesn’t seem like that opportunity. If this were a simple case of religious freedoms, that question has already been answered: there is still a mosque inside the Pentagon.



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Your Name

posted August 25, 2010 at 2:25 pm


What is sad that the Muslim community have not clarified what their suicide bombers are going to bomb and why?
So, what we are supposed to embrase a religion which makes us or others sitting ducks, based on the fact that we don’t believe their religion as truth ?
Nope…!



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Your Name

posted August 25, 2010 at 2:28 pm


I write to better our community and to help bring public awareness of saving innocent children… It certainly is not for the affection of a mans approval or paycheck… I saw they were in it for themselves when push came to shove… So..
These blogs are strictly for the saving of innocent lives, and quite possable to make a person realize something of importance when they have been so offensive in a paticular incident in the past to rectify the situation appropriately…
Save lives, save children in the womb and elsewhere around the globe… God bless…c



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Your Name

posted August 25, 2010 at 2:32 pm


I gave a timely responce and these blogs are intended to rectify situations and turn people around from their wicked behavior…
Save lives, save children around the globe….c



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Your Name

posted August 25, 2010 at 2:32 pm


I write not because or you, let me get that straight….C



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Dan O'Reilly

posted August 25, 2010 at 2:59 pm


I say we are missing an opportunity here. I say, build the mosque at Ground Zero. That way, the wack jobs who fly planes into buildings won’t go for a repeat performance. :)



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Michael Allen

posted August 26, 2010 at 4:48 am


There are literally going to be hundreds of different angles from all sides. Wanting to make the building into a landmark because a piece of the plane flew through it might give closure to some people. It might stand as a constant reminder of horror to others. But, one thing seems to be missing in all this debate. Muslims died that day too.
One Muslim was an EMT who was trying to save lives. He was found underneath the rubble and identified as one of the people who were being sought as a suspect…because he was Muslim and…he came up missing that day. A final tidbit about him is that he was a NYPD cadet. A few more weeks and he would have been a NYPD Officer. Muslims lost their lives that day too.
So many people want to lump all the Muslims together as if they are all terrorists. There are extremists in every religion. Christians have abortion clinic bombers. We also have Nazis and the KKK. Muslims have the Taliban. It’s everywhere you go and we should have learned that by now.
As far as a mosque that close to Ground Zero, I don’t think it’s intended to hurt or offend anyone. I don’t believe that was the thinking at all.



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RCP

posted August 26, 2010 at 1:11 pm


The muslims build their mosques in areas where they have fought “to claim their victory and dominance.” And that’s why they want to build at Ground Zero! Wake up! Learn what the Islam faith believes. Read their Bible. Do research and get educated. In the USA, muslims show one face, but somewhere else they will show their true colors. To them, anyone who is not a muslim is an infidel and must die unless they convert to the muslim way. They are taught to believe Christians are confused and deceived by the devil, therefore Christians do the devil’s work and must die. They are taught this at least from age 2! In defense of Christians, Christians do NOT have abortion clinic bombers. These people who have bombed abortion clinics, which have rarely happened-there are no formed groups, are mentally disturbed and just SAY they are Christian. They are not Christian. True Christians love and pray for others, including abortion clinic workers, not kill them and blow them up.
Political correctness could be the end of the USA. Tolerance needs tighter limits, and we have failed to create them out of ignorance. The way it is going “I’m Ok. You’re OK. It’s all good. Whatever you or I choose is OK because we have FREEDOM here in the USA. To each his own.” Well, you don’t say that to your enemy. The BIG problem here is, the USA doesn’t seem to recognize her enemies–or understand them!!



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Your Name

posted August 26, 2010 at 1:42 pm


Exactly why do they think that if a person is not a Muslim then they are an infedel?
That would mean that everyone on the planet that is not of their faith is target for a suicide bomber….?
So, exactly what do they want us to believe to prevent this…
That Alah, or whatever they feel is their God? ? ?
Strange belief system, when no facts are in place to support it…
So they are a mass murdering religion, which basis that murder in the fact if you don’t do what we say, then we will murder you when we feel like it….
So sounds like a Hitler view system to me…. And they act like that is something to stand up for…
Please, pathetic intent on this planet indeed…., try doing something creative with your time, wrather then set out to kill people who are different then you….cc



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus, the Light of the world

posted August 28, 2010 at 7:27 am


JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !

HG says:
August 22, 2010 6:33 PM
Even CC’s reality, as bizarre as it is, is wholly contained within the time and space of The Universe (within the “totality of all the things that exist.”)
Mr. Incredible asks:
Whose “universe”? Which one?
HG says:
You see, if the Universe holds the totality…
Mr. Incredible asks:
Which universe holds what totality of what?
HG says:
… then there is nothing that exists which isn’t included in it–by definition, there can be no “other” universes within or exterior to The Universe.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Who says?
You’re a used car salesman, aren’t you?
HG says:
So, for someone to insist that they “know” of other universes, they must change the definition of the word.
Mr. Incredible says:
Not necessarily so.
HG says:
It makes communication difficult when word definitions are arbitrarily changed.
Mr. Incredible asks:
Nobody’s changing anything. It’s just that you don’t agree. But so what?
HG says:
If God exists…
Mr. Incredible says:
He does, but you don’t have the experience of Him, and, so, you have nothing of value to contribute to the discussion about Him.
HG says:
… then our Universe IS God…
Mr. Incredible says:
That’s just a philosophical cartoon. A pantload.
HG says:
…It being the only thing which has always existed, and containing everything that exists. What is, is.
Mr. Incredible asks:
What is?
HG says:
Exactly.
Mr. Incredible says:
What’s “exactly”? Exactly what?



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus' Name, the Name above all names

posted August 28, 2010 at 7:30 am


HG says:
… but there is no credible proof of any God or gods existence.
Mr. Incredible says:
None that you’ve precluded yourself from believing, anyway.
HG says:
First he says I have precluded myself from believing, then that I haven’t…
Mr. Incredible asks:
You haven’t what?
HG says:
That, of course, is how I came to abandon my belief in God.
Mr. Incredible says:
You talked yourselves into persuasion, and, today, you continue the error.
HG says:
I talked myselves into persuasion?
Mr. Incredible asks:
And my writing only to you? No.
HG says:
Am I plural?
Mr. Incredible says:
Does two heads constitute plural? If it does, you’re plural.
HG says:
What does “talking oneself into persuasion” mean?
Mr. Incredible says:
I did write, “talking ‘oneself’ into persuasion.”
HG says:
Not much, least using given definitions.
Mr. Incredible says:
Too bad you can’t read, understand and comprehend what’s written. Well, it’s not MY problem.
HG says:
Most…understand that they have religious freedom, the choice of whether or not to believe in any god.
Mr. Incredible says:
Nobody says otherwise.
Excellent, glad he finally agrees that the choice to not believe in any god is included in religious freedom. Progess.
Mr. Incredible says:
I never denied that you may choose to believe — and THAT’s the operative phrasing — there is no god. Yours is a belief. The wrong one, but a belief. It’s not that you don’t believe.
However, if you insist that you do not believe in any god, then the First Amendment doesn’t apply to you, since the First Amendment applies to those who practice and worship. If you don’t believe, you don’t practice and you don’t worship. The First Amendment gives the Freedom to practice and to worship.
In any case, yours is a negation. Negation gets no one nowhere.

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD OVER THE HILLS AND THROUGH THE VALLEYS!



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus

posted August 28, 2010 at 7:44 am


David Q Public says:
I HAVE A GREAT IDEA….
Mr. Incredible asks:
Since when?
David Q Public says:
…why don’t you ignore Mr incredulous.
Mr. Incredible says:
He can’t.
David Q Public says:
he /she is obviously a mocking fool who needs to learn what civil means.
Mr. Incredible says:
In other words, I must learn what YOU mean by “civil,” and do it according to YOUR standards.
I’m not the one who has been calling names here.
David Q Public says:
so, if everyone quit inciting this idiot.
Mr. Incredible says:
Yes, everybody, there is another example of “civil.”
David Q Public says:
he/she may not go away…
Mr. Incredible asks:
You’re correct. I won’t.
David Q Public says:
… but at least by ignoring the bitter rants…
Mr. Incredible says:
I write. I express. I post. Just like everybody else. There is enough electrons for everybody.
If you don’t like what I post, use those webbed fingers of yours to scroll past my posts. That way, your eyes won’t burn.

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD !



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Whose Grace is sufficient

posted August 28, 2010 at 7:46 am


“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus

HG says:
David Q Public, you are right. Great idea, I’m game…
Mr. Incredible says:
Oh, goodie!
HG says:
… but I seriously doubt it will serve to reduce the volume of his “contributions”.
Mr. Incredible says:
Gee, ya think?



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Mr. Incredible, and the Name of Jesus Whose Grace is sufficient

posted August 28, 2010 at 7:47 am


“THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE.” — Jesus

HG says:
David Q Public, you are right. Great idea, I’m game…
Mr. Incredible says:
Oh, goodie!
HG says:
… but I seriously doubt it will serve to reduce the volume of his “contributions”.
Mr. Incredible says:
Gee, ya think?



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who came in spirit and in Truth

posted August 28, 2010 at 7:56 am


JESUS CHRIST — THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE — THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER !

HG says:
It makes communication difficult when word definitions are arbitrarily changed.
Mr. Incredible says:
“”It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”
In other words, you want people to use YOUR meaning and not theirs.
People have meaning. I mean. Words, by themselves, don’t mean. Words, by themselves, have no meaning in the real world.
The dictionary is not a lawgiver. It is a history of usage book.



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Mr. Incredible, in the Name of Jesus Who comes in Grace and Truth

posted August 29, 2010 at 6:01 pm


David Q Public says:
…why don’t you ignore Mr incredulous.
HG says:
David Q Public, you are right. Great idea, I’m game …
Mr. Incredible says:
I’m breathing easier already.

JESUS IS LORD ! THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD OVER THE HILLS AND THROUGH THE VALLEYS !



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Mary

posted August 31, 2010 at 8:36 pm


Greetings!
I do oppose the Mosque, based on a few things;
to all proponents of the Mosque think;
Have you tried to read 3000 names of Brothers, Sisters, Husbands, Wives,Daughters, Grandparents, and Grandchildren? The youngest victim of the 911 attacks was 2 years old!
These people like you and me just went about their daily business, to work shopping they did not join the military that day with the expectation that they would have to fight for their lives or die…they had no choice!
The very least we can do to honor them is to keep the last place they took a breath..sacred not based on religious ideations, but based on compassion and decency for all future generations to remember and hopefully learn from.
It would be interesting to ask a question of the owner of this land and project this question…Would you be willing to write the names of all 3000 victims on the walls of your Mosque? smiles…I think we all know what kind of response that would get!
Thnak-you
respectfully
Mary H



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prevent military

posted September 3, 2010 at 7:00 pm


Hello
I look forward to reading more from you. Have a very good week.
Cu



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Evie Miller

posted September 3, 2010 at 11:17 pm


Mary…I LOVE your post and agree 100% with it!
The Muslims have NEVER apolgised for the cold blooded multi-murder they committed on 9/11…it was the day a faceless enemy brought a super power to it’s knee’s…that Mosque should NEVER be bulit and all you wonderful Christians out there PLEASE pray against it because the bible says….” I delight myself in the Lord and he gives me the desires of my heart”…..pray against the Mosque and make it a desire of your heart.
God Bless you and keep you safe….always.



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software engineering process

posted September 9, 2010 at 1:46 am


Hi There
refreshing and very informative. you wish there were more blogs like it. Anyway, you felt it was about time you posted, I
Laters



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work at home business

posted September 9, 2010 at 3:21 pm


Whats Up
Great post. i will read your posts frequently.



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Work At Home From Your Computer

posted September 9, 2010 at 3:21 pm


Every one on internet searches for good content. Its very unfortunate with most of the websites published posts that are boring and out of context articles, just to show that new material is being published. Contrary to that immoral practice, this article is a good-written article.



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money making runescape

posted September 9, 2010 at 3:21 pm


A friend of mine just emailed me one of your articles from a while back. my homie read that one a few more.
Really liked your blog. thank you very much



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work from home moms forums

posted September 9, 2010 at 3:21 pm


danke, awesome stuff :D
Talk Later



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making money online fast

posted September 9, 2010 at 3:21 pm


Greetings
Thanks myself found just the info myself already searched everywhere and just couldnt find. What a really tight website. Like this website this site is one of my favs.
i am going to bookmark and read more often
Cu



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paper mache

posted September 12, 2010 at 10:11 am


Realy cool stuff, yours truly managed to make my blog
i a blog owner too.
Cu



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work from home phone

posted September 12, 2010 at 11:18 am


Good stuff, It might just work, although it seems easier when you have a plan.
Good Bye



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earn cash

posted September 12, 2010 at 11:21 am


Moin
Good stuff, It might just work, although it seems easier when you have a plan.
Bye



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after instrument

posted September 12, 2010 at 11:22 am


Yo Bro
Awesome info! yours truly was honestly just thinking about something similar to this the other day so, it was almost weird when yours truly ran across this. You would be surprised how many people simply have no idea when it comes to this kind of stuff. Anyway, thanks for getting this really tight info out there and yours truly am sure yours truly am not the only one who appreciates you taking the time to post this for the masses.
myself a blog owner too.



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work at home ideas

posted September 12, 2010 at 11:23 am


BTW – Im up to about 100 visitors per day.
Sincerly



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money making forums

posted September 12, 2010 at 11:29 am


Good Day
Every one on internet searches for very nice content. Its very unfortunate with most of the websites published posts that are boring and out of context articles, just to show that new material is being published. Contrary to that immoral practice, this article is a very nice-written article.
i will put your site on my blogroll.



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google money master

posted September 13, 2010 at 7:25 pm


Hey You
I couldnt agree more, myself, but not everyone is as clever as you seem to be. Or as I seem to be! HA! :-p



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home businesses

posted September 13, 2010 at 7:26 pm


Nice writing style.



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make money with google

posted September 13, 2010 at 7:28 pm


Awesome info! My bro was honestly just thinking about something similar to this da other day so, it was almost weird when My bro ran across this. You would be surprised how many people simply have no idea when it comes to this kind of stuff. Anyway, thanks for getting this really good info out there and My bro am sure My bro am not da only one who appreciates you taking da time to post this for da masses.



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Your Name

posted September 24, 2010 at 1:05 pm


I gess they should be allowed to build it there since to stop them would be unAmerican… if not then all we are doing is starting wars for God and I don’t think He wants that. Spred His word of peace and hope…all are followers of the one true God ultamitly…all His posterity. Some people just now Him differantly…cause He told them thats how it was…same thing only differant. Yes, the end, thats the way it is…all Gods world period.



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gnc cleanse colon

posted October 5, 2010 at 6:18 pm


myself am loving your posts. Found you on Twitter.
I will put your site on my blogroll.



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Izabel Ea-kapu

posted October 20, 2010 at 6:42 pm


I read the Koran. English translation by Marmaduke Pickthall. Surah 4, verse 34 seems to contain a law that promotes the beating of women: quote: “As for those (women) from whom ye (men) fear rebellion, …. scourge them.” In the news we sometimes see this “law” actually executed.
Now I wonder whether there is a law in America that forbids the beating of women. And if so, does religious freedom override the laws of the country?
And where to draw the line for religious freedom? — if an Aztec tribe wanted to build a temple (pyramid) and practice human sacrifice, should that also be allowed?
And anyways, so many superstitions are contained in the Koran, especially about women. Surah 4, verse 117 seems to equate females with Satan, etc…
Women in the western countries have fought long and hard for equal rights, why would we allow a relapse into the Dark Ages???
I think, for above-mentioned reasons alone, there should not be any mosque allowed anywhere in the western countries where hopefully there do exist laws against the beating of women.



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Previous Posts

Another Blog To Enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting LynnvSekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow: Faith and Justice  Happy Reading!

posted 11:26:38am Aug. 16, 2012 | read full post »

Another blog to enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting Lynn V. Sekulow. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here is another blog you may also enjoy: Jay Sekulow's Faith and Justice Happy Reading!!!

posted 10:36:04am Jul. 06, 2012 | read full post »

More to Come
Barry,   It's hard to believe that we've been debating these constitutional issues for more than two years now in this space.  I have tremendous respect for you and wish you all the best in your new endeavors.   My friend, I'm sure we will continue to square off in other forums - on n

posted 4:52:22pm Dec. 02, 2010 | read full post »

Thanks for the Memories
Well Jay, the time has come for me to say goodbye. Note to people who are really happy about this: I'm not leaving the planet, just this blog.As I noted in a personal email, after much thought, I have decided to end my participation and contribution to Lynn v. Sekulow and will be doing some blogging

posted 12:24:43pm Nov. 21, 2010 | read full post »

President Obama: Does He Get It?
Barry,   I would not use that label to identify the President.  I will say, however, that President Obama continues to embrace and promote pro-abortion policies that many Americans strongly disagree with.   Take the outcome of the election - an unmistakable repudiation of the Preside

posted 11:46:49am Nov. 05, 2010 | read full post »




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