Lynn v. Sekulow

Lynn v. Sekulow


The Cross Must Go To A Place of Honor

posted by Rev. Barry W. Lynn

So, the Supreme Court has accepted the case of Salazar v. Buono involving cross erected on public land.

The first and foremost point which we must not lose sight of in this case is that this cross was a religious symbol when it was put up over 70 years ago and it remains a religious symbol today. Moreover, it was and is a Christian religious symbol.

Jay, as you correctly point out, one federal court found the
placement of this cross on federal land unconstitutional.  (I have a
sneaking suspicion you did not agree with that ruling.)  Then, an
appeals court found the transparently phoney effort by Congress to
“transfer” ownership of the one acre surrounding the cross to the
Veterans of Foreign Wars also unconstitutional.
Americans
United is also preparing an amicus brief in this case — and it will not
be on the side of the VFW.  The cross can and should be moved to an
appropriate location on truly private property.  The cross will not
have be “bulldozed” into oblivion (although I’m sure some of your
allies will use this phrase).  However, so long as it sits in the
middle of the Mojave National Preserve, a federal park, it will be
viewed by any reasonable observer as something embraced and promoted by
the government.
And, please, spare us from the
claim that this is merely a “war memorial.”  Men and women of many
faiths and those with no spiritual interests at all, have long served
our nation with honor. No one symbol from any religious tradition can
memorialize the beliefs of all of them.

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Mr. Incredible

posted February 24, 2009 at 1:11 pm


I’ll borrow the form of a question those who claim to be homosexual ask us:
How does that cross affect YOUR life? Does it stop YOU from living?



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our founding truth

posted February 24, 2009 at 3:03 pm


Rev. Barry W. Lynn: Americans United is also preparing an amicus brief in this case — and it will not be on the side of the VFW. The cross can and should be moved to an appropriate location on truly private property.
By reason of separation of church and state being a flawed by-word, enacted by flawed human beings, no defense is needed against it, however, one official quote from a Founding Father affirms Christianity should be taught in all schools:
“[I]f a love of virtuous men of all parties and denominations; if a love of science and letters and a wish to patronize every rational effort to encourage schools, colleges, universities, academies, and every institution for propagating knowledge, virtue, and religion among all classes of the people, not only for their benign influence on the happiness of life in all its stages and classes, and of society in all its forms, but as the only means of preserving our Constitution from its natural enemies, the spirit of sophistry, the spirit of party, the spirit of intrigue, the profligacy of corruption, and the pestilence of foreign influence, which is the angel of destruction to elective governments” [bold face mine]
-John Adams, Inaugural Address, MARCH 4, 1797
Any subsequent abrogation of religion taught in our schools is null and void, based on principles that do not change, for all instruments are to be interpreted according how the authors intended. The authors did not intend separation of church and state.



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Nicholas

posted February 24, 2009 at 4:16 pm


Thats beautiful!



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ELaen

posted February 24, 2009 at 7:18 pm


The “claim” that a cross can be represented as “merely” a war memorial is actually pretty accurate. I’m not sure if you have ever seen the Arlington Cemetary in Washington DC or any other military cemetary, but most gravesites are actually marked with a single white cross. If you want to prove that the government doesn’t consider the cross a memorial of war or life given by the military, take up that issue instead.



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dsjulian

posted February 24, 2009 at 7:24 pm


Mr. Incredible: “How does that cross affect YOUR life? Does it stop YOU from living?” This is a clear example of how a single religion is attempting to hijack the USA. When this cross was erected, the USA was in the final stages of one of her darkest moments. The running joke was and still is in many parts of the USA, that at 11AM on Sunday morning, the church was the most segregated place in America. The Baptist church where I was submersion baptized in Alexandria, VA, boasted that “no colored had entered through the front door” in its 150-year history. My point: the Constitutional rights of minorities were routinely violated in those days by the will of the Christian majority, many of whom think they can still get away with it. And therefore to many Americans, that cross still represents decades, if not centuries, of racial and religious discrimination. In addition, so-called Messianic Jews refuse to call their Messiah, Jesus. That’s also because of centuries, if not millenia, of savage persecution by Christian zealots. That’s what that cross represents to too many Americans. It does not belong in any location where it can be misconstrued to be endorsed, even tacitly, by the US Government.



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dsjulian

posted February 24, 2009 at 7:45 pm


ELaen: “I’m not sure if you have ever seen the Arlington Cemetary in Washington DC or any other military cemetary, but most gravesites are actually marked with a single white cross.” I fear you have fallen prey to still another Christian Internet hoax. This one showed a picture of cemetery, captioned as Arlington National Cemetery, where all the gravestones were marked as you described. At ANC the families of deceased servicemen and women are permitted to display a small Christian cross, Star of David, crescent moon, etc., on the gravestone. Each of the displays obviously reflects the religious convictions of the individual involved and in no way could they be misundertood to be the endorsement of a religion by the Federal Government or the ANC. By the way, the “single white cross” gravestones turned out to be located in a graveyard in Europe in a country whose national religon only permits Christian crosses to be displayed.



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Geo Bush

posted February 25, 2009 at 1:22 am


This is part of the homosexual agenda



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 8:01 am


==Mr. Incredible: “How does that cross affect YOUR life? Does it stop YOU from living?” This is a clear example of how a single religion is attempting to hijack the USA.==
That’s a pantload!
== When this cross was erected, the USA was in the final stages of one of her darkest moments. The running joke was and still is in many parts of the USA, that at 11AM on Sunday morning…==
As opposed to 11a Sunday night, I guess.
==… the church was the most segregated place in America. The Baptist church where I was submersion baptized in Alexandria, VA, boasted that “no colored had entered through the front door” in its 150-year history.==
Quit living in the past.
==My point: the Constitutional rights of minorities were routinely violated in those days by the will of the Christian majority…==
“In ‘THOSE’ [my emphasis] days.” That was then. This is now.
==… many of whom think they can still get away with it.==
They get no fed subsidies. So, if they wish to exclude, or separate, they may. You may not like it. I may not like it. The point is that THEY do.
== And therefore to many Americans, that cross still represents decades, if not centuries, of racial and religious discrimination.==
They can find other churches to their liking. They don’t have-ta change everybody in order to live.
== In addition, so-called Messianic Jews refuse to call their Messiah, Jesus. That’s also because of centuries, if not millenia, of savage persecution by Christian zealots.==
So, to YOU, mere disagreement = persecution. That’s nice.
==That’s what that cross represents to too many Americans.==
They can get over it, or get educated.
== It does not belong in any location where it can be misconstrued to be endorsed, even tacitly, by the US Government.==
VALUE JUDGMENT ALERT!
“Misconstrued” is the responsibility of those misconstruing, and this misconstruing is part of a personal agenda, or downright ignorance. That doesn’t impose anything on the State.



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Mary-Lee

posted February 25, 2009 at 10:36 am


ELaen, there is a definite difference between a small cross carved on an individual gravestone and this huge monstrosity.
At Arlington, a cross can be carved onto a gravestone, but so can a crescent, a star of David, a Wiccan star, or whatever else the family wishes to display as a signal of the individual soldier’s religious beliefs. It’s also possible to not have any symbol on the gravestone.
With this cross there is no escaping! Regardless of an individual’s religious beliefs, or no belief at all, the individual soldier MUST be buried under the sign of the cross… or be buried elsewhere.
This cross is comparable to the cross at Auschwitz. It is an open insult to those who are not Christian but who also died in service to this nation. Personally, I don’t think the dead care much about what symbol is up there, but the families of the soldiers do care very much. Why you would want to insult them is beyond me.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 10:48 am


==With this cross there is no escaping!==
Escaping what? What do YOU need to escape?
==This cross is comparable to the cross at Auschwitz.==
REALLY??? You can’t tell the difference??? My goodness!
== It is an open insult to those who are not Christian…==
If we’re gonna talk about being insulted, removing it for YOUR purposes is ALSO an insult.
==Personally, I don’t think the dead care much about what symbol is up there, but the families of the soldiers do care very much. Why you would want to insult them is beyond me.==
Why do YOU wanna insult people by removing the cross in order to accommodate your personal grudges?



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 10:49 am


==With this cross there is no escaping!==
Escaping what? What do YOU need to escape? Is there some power you recognize in it that you need to escape?



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 10:54 am


==It is an open insult to those who are not Christian…==
Anything Christian is an open insult to those who are not Christian. You wanna shut down Christianity altogether?
How ’bout shutting down a church just cuz it reminds them of, say, Auschwitz???



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RJohnson

posted February 25, 2009 at 12:08 pm


“Anything Christian is an open insult to those who are not Christian. You wanna shut down Christianity altogether?”
Then open the land up so that other religious groups may honor their war dead. Allow the Buddhist group to place a shrine nearby, and allow the Wiccans to place something that speaks to their faith. Allow Zoroastrians, Taoists, Jews, Pastafarians, and groups of ALL religious faiths (even those that deny the existence of a supernatural being or an afterlife) to offer up a fitting monument to members of their faith who have fought and died for the freedoms our nation enjoys.
Why must the Christian cross be the ONLY such monument?



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 12:59 pm


==Then open the land up so that other religious groups may honor their war dead.==
I don’t have control over the land you’re talking about.
== Allow the Buddhist group to place a shrine nearby…==
I’m not stopping them.
==… and allow the Wiccans to place something that speaks to their faith.==
Not stopping them.
==… Allow Zoroastrians, Taoists, Jews, Pastafarians, and groups of ALL religious faiths (even those that deny the existence of a supernatural being or an afterlife) to offer up a fitting monument to members of their faith who have fought and died for the freedoms our nation enjoys.==
You’re talkin’ to the wrong person.
==Why must the Christian cross be the ONLY such monument?==
I dunno, but, maybe God wants it that way.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 1:05 pm


==Why must the Christian cross be the ONLY such monument?==
Well, maybe cuz Christianity is the only relationship offering a Savior, and the cross represents the offer that comes ONLY through the Cross; while all those phoney religions offer nothing.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 1:16 pm


==Then open the land up so that other religious groups may honor their war dead. ==
Would you like the State to carve up Church land, also, so that, say, Muslims can erect something on church land, just to be, as YOU would say, “equal”?
Would you also like the State to tell me not to have an Christian display on my property unless I put up, say, a Buddhist shrine, too, that can be seen from the public ways?
Would you also insist that the State tell me NOT to speak about, nor write about, Christianity, unless I give an equal amount of time, electrons and breath to, say, Islam, just cuz my expressions drift into the public and are heard, or read, by unbelievers?



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Guy Allen

posted February 25, 2009 at 1:18 pm


If the supporters of religion and government would only look at what has happen in Europe they would see that religion suffers. Church attendence is only a fraction of what occurs in the US. Only in Nations that have Islam as the official religion does religion thrive and we have seen the results if that. Keep religion and government seperated and they both will be better off.



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RJohnson

posted February 25, 2009 at 1:19 pm


==Then open the land up so that other religious groups may honor their war dead.==
== Allow the Buddhist group to place a shrine nearby…==
Mr. Incredible: “I’m not stopping them.”
No, the government stopped them in this instance, which is one reason the suit was filed.
==Why must the Christian cross be the ONLY such monument?==
Mr. Incredible: “I dunno, but, maybe God wants it that way.”
Or maybe not.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 1:23 pm


==Why must the Christian cross be the ONLY such monument?==
Cuz the cross represents the Cross Which is offered for ALL Mankind by Grace; whereas the “religions” you bring up are ways for men to try to perform their own way to Heaven, or whatever, and by their own might, as weak as that is.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 1:30 pm


==/==Then open the land up so that other religious groups may honor their war dead.==
== Allow the Buddhist group to place a shrine nearby…==
Mr. Incredible: “I’m not stopping them.”
No, the government stopped them in this instance, which is one reason the suit was filed.==
You called on me to open up the land. I told you that I do not have legal control over the property.
==/==Why must the Christian cross be the ONLY such monument?==
Mr. Incredible: “I dunno, but, maybe God wants it that way.”
Or maybe not. ==
A lotta eople claim “ignorance,” hoping that, if [from their perspective] God exists, He won’t take it out on them for not knowing. Of course that’s trash cuz He gave you the info, and you ARE accountable. So, sitting on the fence gets you no points. I can’t lose anything if I’m wrong. If YOU’re wrong, you lose everything.



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RJohnson

posted February 25, 2009 at 1:31 pm


==Then open the land up so that other religious groups may honor their war dead. ==
Mr. Incredible: “Would you like the State to carve up Church land, also, so that, say, Muslims can erect something on church land, just to be, as YOU would say, “equal”?”
In the case mentioned above, the National Park Service denied the request of a Buddhist group to place a shrine on the public lands adjacent to the cross. In doing so they showed favoritism to one religious expression over another.
I take it from your evasive responses that you are comfortable with that as long as it is YOUR religion being shown the favoritism.
Thank you for your time.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 1:35 pm


==If the supporters of religion and government would only look at what has happen in Europe they would see that religion suffers.==
Yes, if you’re talking about “religion.” Christianity is not a “religion.”
==Only in Nations that have Islam as the official religion does religion thrive and we have seen the results if that. ==
Yes, cuz Muslims, for example, think that, if they do enough, they will get presents in Heaven. We, on the other hand, are told that we cannot be good enough, nor do enough, to earn our way to Heaven, that our resurrection into Heaven is by Way of Grace and Truth.
==Keep religion and government seperated and they both will be better off.==
I agree that our government and Islam, for instance, should not consort.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 1:41 pm


==… the National Park Service denied the request of a Buddhist group to place a shrine on the public lands adjacent to the cross. In doing so they showed favoritism to one religious expression over another.==
Are you talking about a memorial, or religious expression?
If memorial – and I agree the cross, in this case, is a memorial — then there is no religious favoritism.
==I take it from your evasive responses that you are comfortable with that as long as it is YOUR religion being shown the favoritism.==
Jesus said that He is the ONLY Way to the Father. I believe Him. I don’t believe, say, Muhammad. So, I don’t plead the case of those who believe that Jesus is not the only way. They’ll have to do their own talking; I’m not gonna help them.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 3:11 pm

Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 3:20 pm


And the thing is that the decision is UNANIMOUS!



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RJohnson

posted February 25, 2009 at 3:21 pm


==… the National Park Service denied the request of a Buddhist group to place a shrine on the public lands adjacent to the cross. In doing so they showed favoritism to one religious expression over another.==
Mr. Incredible: “Are you talking about a memorial, or religious expression?”
I believe you answered that question in your post at 1:23 PM.
——
Mr. Incredible
February 25, 2009 1:23 PM
==Why must the Christian cross be the ONLY such monument?==
Cuz the cross represents the Cross Which is offered for ALL Mankind by Grace; whereas the “religions” you bring up are ways for men to try to perform their own way to Heaven, or whatever, and by their own might, as weak as that is.
——
Sounds to me as if you agree with me that the cross in question is an expression of religion rather than merely a memorial to fallen soldiers. But then you seek to have it both ways with, “If memorial – and I agree the cross, in this case, is a memorial — then there is no religious favoritism.”
If the cross is merely a memorial, then there should be no problem with other groups placing memorial objects at that location.



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Honorable Mentionabelia

posted February 25, 2009 at 3:24 pm


Enough about that, you wonder why people erase things and leave up questionable memorabilia? I don’t know, maybe they are bored. I further question the government and their questionable errors? I don’t know about you folks, the country was based on Christianity, remember? We wanted to practice our own faith seperate from the queen. I do like tea, though. Our wonderful founding fathers and their documents and our wonderful savior who saved all of us who believe. He would say, forgive them father, they know not what they do. You can put the cross anywhere you want to, it still speaks for itself. No body was found, I wonder what happenned to it? Could it be that he realy was lit up like a Christmas tree and showed each and every one of his apostles his glowing self.
I don’t know about you folks, but they sure died in some horrible ways after that. And you wonder who I am talking about, the king of kings and the lord of lords, the eternal redeemer, or Mesiah, Jesus Chist. Look him up,
Cara Floyd(the cross)



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 3:31 pm


==Sounds to me as if you agree with me that the cross in question is an expression of religion rather than merely a memorial to fallen soldiers.==
I dunno what it “is.” I know what it means to me.
And, by the way, review today’s SCOTUS decision.
==But then you seek to have it both ways with, “If memorial – and I agree the cross, in this case, is a memorial — then there is no religious favoritism.”==
If you argue that it is a memorial, then you got no beef.
==If the cross is merely a memorial, then there should be no problem with other groups placing memorial objects at that location.==
Except that SCOTUS disagrees by unanimous margin.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 3:36 pm


==… the National Park Service denied the request of a Buddhist group to place a shrine on the public lands adjacent to the cross. In doing so they showed favoritism to one religious expression over another.==
“Buddhism” isn’t a religion, is it? Where’s the “god” in Buddhism?
If there is no god in Buddhism, how does the First Amendment’s “religion” clause apply to Buddhists??? It doesn’t.
However, it may apply to the Freedom of Speech clause, in which case today’s SCOTUS applies.
Game over.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 3:39 pm


==Why must the Christian cross be the ONLY such monument?==
If you’re talking about a monument, you frame it as a Freedom of Speech issue cuz, for example, a Buddhist shrine is not a religious symbol cuz Buddhists make no claim of a god, just like atheists, as we are told.
So, as I say, your example of a shrine falls under today’s SCOTUS.



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RJohnson

posted February 25, 2009 at 3:48 pm


Ah yes, the Utah case. I can’t wait until someone brings an establishment case citing this particular precedent. Even Chief Justice Roberts sees this coming, as his remarks to Jay during oral arguments indicated.
Meanwhile, it will be interesting the first time a monument from a Muslim group is accepted by a national, state or local park for display. We’ll see if the Christians are willing to let Pleasant Grove v. Summum stand, or if they decide that the decision needs to be overturned.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 3:50 pm


==…the country was based on Christianity, remember?==
I DO remember.
== We wanted to practice our own faith seperate from the queen.==
Wwwweeeellll, not exactly, but you’re in the neighborhood and on the right track.
The Church of England, headed by the King as High Priest, didn’t want the people to have the Word of God and access to God except through the Church, and, so, they kept the Word from them. The people who disregarded this were punished, and William Tyndale, who brought the Word in English, was “toasted” at a Church “picnic.”
The settlers left England cuz they wanted the freedom to practice Chrisianity, and they say so in their documents, and they said that they hoped that they would advance Christianity here. THIS is the intention of those who came here, and the King’s enforcing the Church — the combining of such powers — is what sent the settlers packin’, and the King accused them of treason.
So, “separation of Church and State” involves the State’s not prohibiting the practice of Christianity, as is the intention of Jefferson’s letter.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 3:55 pm


==…it will be interesting the first time a monument from a Muslim group is accepted by a national, state or local park for display.==
The State is not required to accept them, and, in the vast majority of cases, it won’t. Where they do, we’ll have to examine whether placement is “religious” in nature, or Freedom of Speech in nature.
As I understand it, the monument in this case is not “religious.” The Muslim example you cite is “religious.”



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 4:03 pm


==I can’t wait until someone brings an establishment case citing this particular precedent.==
This isn’t an “establishment” precedent. It affirms Freedom of Speech. As such, the Court says, the State may reject it cuz even the State has the Right to speak.
== Even Chief Justice Roberts sees this coming, as his remarks to Jay during oral arguments indicated.==
Oral argument is not part of the ruling, though.
==…it will be interesting the first time a monument from a Muslim group is accepted by a national, state or local park for display. We’ll see if the Christians are willing to let Pleasant Grove v. Summum stand, or if they decide that the decision needs to be overturned.==
A Muslim monument would be a remembrance piece of a man, not of God. Thus, it would not fall under a “religious” thing, rather a speech thing, and this is where it would fall under this case.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 4:09 pm


Lemme clear up my apparent, conflicting testimonies:
Where I say, “As I understand it, the monument in this case is not “religious.” The Muslim example you cite is ‘religious.'”
— that is, if it contains Koran verses, or even some relation to those verses. Otherwise, if it praises a man, it’s a speech thang.
Where I say, “A Muslim monument would be a remembrance piece of a man, not of God. Thus, it would not fall under a ‘religious’ thing, rather a speech thing, and this is where it would fall under this case.”
This should be cleared up now, according to the previous explanation.



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Gwyddion9

posted February 25, 2009 at 4:20 pm


Dsjulian,
I agree with your thoughts on the matter.
One of my favorite quotes that sums up a lot of this is:
“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross” Sinclair Lewis.
Personally, think the attempt is already under way.



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ELaen

posted February 25, 2009 at 5:46 pm


dsjulian, I’m really confused as to why you would think that would be a hoax…unless you’re blatantly lying in which case this entire argument is pointless. I’ve been to Arlington and have seen the crosses with my own eyes. Have you? I know the answer to that already, unless you’re lying.
Mary-Lee, I certainly do not wish to insult the dead. The cross at Auschwitz is completely different than the cross in the Mojave Desert. The cross at Auschwitz was erected on such sacred ground. The cross in the Mojave was erected by a veterans group trying to memorialize their comrades on ground that was NOT sacred or controversial. And, I’m certain the veterans group erected the cross to do the exact opposite of insulting their fallen comrades. I understand why people may want the cross removed from Mojave, and I might even be able to support that decision by the Supreme Court. I was not referring to carved crosses; I was referring to actual cross headstones that are in fact there. My point in bringing up Arlington is that it seems that the government does in fact use the cross to memorialize veterans. Perhaps newer gravestones are not crosses, but in the 1930’s they were, and are we going to remove all those gravestones, too?



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Boris

posted February 25, 2009 at 9:00 pm


The cross, like everything else in the Christian religion, was borrowed from other religions. Adonis had the sign of the fish long before there were any Jesus stories and was supposedly crucified on a cross to pay for the sins of the world and then rose from the dad after three days also. Horus, the Egyptian Son of God, was crucified on a cross between to evil gods. So let the Christians advertise that they stole their ideas from other religions. It goes right along with all the books that have come out over the last few years exposing this fact to the general public.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 10:28 pm


==The cross, like everything else in the Christian religion, was borrowed from other religions.==
It’s possible the Romans borrowed the design from somebody else, but so what? The Cross is now associated with Jesus, not with anybody else.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 25, 2009 at 10:53 pm


==The cross, like everything else in the Christian religion, was borrowed from other religions.==
NEWS BULLETIN!! December 25 also existed BEFORE Jesus!!
Boris would say, “How dare those Christians steal December 25 to celebrate the birth of Jesus!! How dare those Christians force me to take a day off on Christmas Day! Oh, wait a minute, I’ll be glad to take the day off. That’s okay.”



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harryoutdoors

posted February 26, 2009 at 1:20 am


Ohhhh Brother!
This is getting scary!!!
ADONIS WAS KILLED BY A BOAR!
HORUS DIED FROM A SCORPION STING!
Atheists just say whatever they want…make up things as they go…ANYTHING AS LONG AS IT SOWS DOUBT!
Atheism IS a set agenda: …to destroy the minds of young America! And they don’t care how they do it! Remember atheism has no right and wrong…good and evil…ethics is whatever at the moment.
Boris, you’ve proven you don’t believe in God…now, you’ve proven you don’t believe in truth. but, then again why should you?
This is why atheists should not be allowed to control our country’s classrooms!
Adonis died at the tusks of a wild boar, sent by either Artemis in retaliation for Aphrodite instigating the death of Hippolytus, a favorite of the huntress goddess, or Aphrodite’s paramour, Ares.[7] As Aphrodite sprinkled nectar on his body, each drop of Adonis’ blood turned into a blood-red anemone, and the river Adonis (modern Nahr Ibrahim) flowing out of Mount Lebanon in coastal Lebanon ran red, according to Lucian (chs. 6 – 9).wikipedia
The principal incident is the death of her son Horus, which took place whilst she was absent in a neighboring city, and was caused by the bite of a scorpion; in spite of all the care which Isis took in hiding her son, a scorpion managed to make its way into the presence of the boy, and it stung him until he died. http://www.touregypt.net/horus.htm



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Boris

posted February 26, 2009 at 2:22 am


In his Study of History, Arnold Toynbee wrote:
Behind the figure of the dying demigod there looms the greater figure of a very God that dies for different worlds under diverse names – for a Minoan world as Dionysus, for a Sumeric world as Tammuz, for a Hittite world as Attis, for a Syriac world as Adonis, for a Christian world as Christ. Who is this God of many epiphanies but only one passion?



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 26, 2009 at 7:50 am


==Atheists just say whatever they want…make up things as they go…ANYTHING AS LONG AS IT SOWS DOUBT!==
They pretty much follow the Devil’s agenda, don’t they.
==Atheism IS a set agenda: …to destroy the minds of young America!==
Through deception, of course.
== Remember atheism has no right and wrong…good and evil…ethics is whatever at the moment.==
It is selfish.
==Boris, you’ve proven [sic] you don’t believe in God…now, you’ve proven [sic] you don’t believe in truth. but, then again why should you?==
The Truth is not in him.



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jestrfyl

posted February 26, 2009 at 2:50 pm


In some ways taking this case is a way to protect Christianity. It seems that the cross, a very specific Christian symbol, has become the default memorial sybol for all people. This robs the Christian symbol of its meaning. There are many Jewish veterans as not many Moslem veterans. It is inappropriate to make the cross their memorial too, any more than Christians feeling it beneficial to have a Star of David or a menorah, or a Star and Crescent serve as their memorial marker. We need a secular symbol for memorials that does not trivialize the cross by making it an all-purpose, meaningless marker.It is good and right to honor those people whose lives were sacrificed in war. But it is as right to use the sybol for the nation, not of only a portion of the nation (majority or minority).



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jestrfyl

posted February 26, 2009 at 2:54 pm


I keyed, “There are many Jewish veterans as not many Moslem veterans.”
This is not what I intended. I meant to say:
There are many Jewish veterans and now many Moslem veterans.
My left hand does not tell my right hand anything, it seems. Someday I hope they will work together. Until then I will continue to correct the mistakes and ask for forgiveness.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 26, 2009 at 3:32 pm


==It seems that the cross, a very specific Christian symbol, has become the default memorial sybol for all people. This robs the Christian symbol of its meaning. ==
The Devil comes to steal, kill and destroy, and, if the symbol of the Cross is robbed of its REAL meaning, it is cuz people give authority to the Devil to rob It of its REAL meaning. This is exactly what happened in the Garden.



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Gwyddion9

posted February 26, 2009 at 5:31 pm


I see the court taking this issue is more of a protecting the status quo, specifically Christianity rather than free speech. Imo, some Christians have become afraid and angry that their religion doesn’t have the full sway of things, as it once did. I think the courts decision reflected this; protected Christianity and essentially made a subtle statement of religious approval over other religions.
A religious symbol on a head stone that reflects the individuals’ beliefs is more appropriate and respectful to the soldier who died in service to our country.
Personally, I think the American flag is a wonderful symbol and should be the only symbol used at any military memorial. The flag represents all of us, not one specific group of people.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 27, 2009 at 8:48 am


==I see the court taking this issue is more of a protecting the status quo, specifically Christianity rather than free speech.==
Of course you do.
== Imo, some Christians have become afraid and angry that their religion doesn’t have the full sway of things…==
Some atheists have become afraid and angry that their religion doesn’t have the full sway of things.
==I think the courts decision reflected this; protected Christianity and essentially made a subtle statement of religious approval over other religions.==
That’s YOUR perspective. They took that perspective into account and rejected it.
==A religious symbol on a head stone that reflects the individuals’ beliefs is more appropriate and respectful to the soldier who died in service to our country.==
Again, that’s YOUR perspective.
==Personally, I think the American flag is a wonderful symbol and should be the only symbol used at any military memorial.==
However, the Flag, thanks to history, possesses a certain Christian texture, and, respecting that history, I give it that texture. Many Americans do. So, now, the American Flag oughta offend you.
==The flag represents all of us, not one specific group of people.==
Tell that to the flag burners.



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Boris

posted February 27, 2009 at 12:47 pm


Incredible falsely claimed: Some atheists have become afraid and angry that their religion doesn’t have the full sway of things.
Boris says: Here’s a partial list of qualities shared by almost all religions that atheism lacks:
There is no God, there is no common belief, there is no unified conception of spirituality, there is no scripture, there is no priesthood, there are no holidays, there are no laws, there is no tradition, there is no church or ritual, there is no concept of an afterlife, there is no creation myth, there is no founder, there is no identifying clothing, Yarmulkes, robes, veils, turbans, sacred protective underwear and other holy vestments hold great importance for the majority of religions.
While atheists are clearly in the minority in many countries they still don’t need strength in numbers to bolster what they think. Believers have to get together once a week or more and throw their hands in the air and scream, shout and sing about all they’re trying so desperately to believe. Atheists don’t need to go through these insane gyrations to hold onto a sagging belief system the way Christians do. See atheists don’t let other PEOPLE tell them what to think. Especially when it comes to invisible sky wizards and all their millions of invisible friends and enemies.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 27, 2009 at 3:10 pm


==Incredible falsely claimed: Some atheists have become afraid and angry that their religion doesn’t have the full sway of things.==
It’s no false claim.
==Boris says: Here’s a partial list of qualities shared by almost all religions that atheism lacks…==
Still, those who claim to be atheist have a position on “God.” That’s a religious position. A federal appeals court agrees with me, not with you.
==While atheists are clearly in the minority in many countries they still don’t need strength in numbers to bolster what they think.==
In one way, or the other, yes they do.
== Believers have to get together once a week or more and throw their hands in the air and scream, shout and sing about all they’re trying so desperately to believe.==
No, they get together in such ways — not all of them — CUZ they believe, not in order to believe. Faith doesn’t come by their own effort.
== Atheists don’t need to go through these insane gyrations to hold onto a sagging belief system the way Christians do.==
Yes, all those who claim to be atheist have to do is endlessly repeat a lie.
== See atheists don’t let other PEOPLE tell them what to think.==
Except that’s what YOU’RE doing.
== Especially when it comes to invisible sky wizards and all their millions of invisible friends and enemies.==
“Love” is invisible. Yet, you react to it.
“Beauty” is invisible. Still, you react to it.
Gosh. Imagine that!



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 27, 2009 at 3:30 pm


Unaware scoffers continue to play out their role in prophecy. As predicted thousands of years ago, they help show the Word of God accurate and true.
These people say that they are scientific, empirical, logical and thinking.
Have they done the experiment exactly as intended, according to the formula?
Then, how do they know It’s not true, that It doesn’t work, especially when multitudes upon hundreds and hundreds of multitudes who’ve done the experiment say that It does work?
If not, how do you know It’s not true, that It doesn’t work, especially when multitudes upon multitudes who’ve done the experiment say that It does work? The experiment, done again and again and again by great multitudes of hundreds of millions over and over again, is, obviously, reliable, and with the same results in all who’ve duplicated it.
In the face of the formula’s being duplicated hundreds of thousands of millions of times over thousands of years, what scientist, empirical person, or reasoned person refuses to see, chops up the formula, or equation, and edits out, pares it down so that it comes out, not the way it naturally would, rather the way he wants it to come out?
How does a person, claiming to be scientific, empirical and reasoned, purposely ignore critical parts of an experiment just so that the result matches his agenda? How does that person, claiming to be scientific, empirical and reasoned, not at least try to duplicate what so many, through the ages, have said and do say works?
DATA POINT: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%201:22&version=9;
Is it possible that the person who tells you that he is scientific, empirical and reasoned is not very scientific, empirical, logical and reasoned? How does a person bake a particular cake without following the recipe? He doesn’t.
Scoffers, including those who trip on their own “reasoning,” don’t read Scripture themselves. They’re afraid of it. They let the psychopaths who run the scoffer, anti-Christ web sites go through the Bible and find anything they can twist into meaning what they want It to mean in order to propagate their agenda. This is the way they work.



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Mr. Incredible

posted February 27, 2009 at 3:40 pm


“There are men and women in the world today who say that God orders their lives, guides them in making decisions, provides for their needs, answers their prayers, in ways which are often strange and unexpected. That is the testimony of my own experience, and there are many here who could make the same statement; but, if you, yourself, have not had the experience in your life, don’t be too quick to jump to the conclusion that we who say these things are daft, mad. In that mood, many of us approach spiritual things. We come, like Thomas, not doubting, but dogmatically refusing to believe unless we see, as if we could pour God into a test tube, as if intangibles had to become tangible in order to prove that they were intangible. There are certain things that must be approached in faith, things that are matters of perception, not of proof.
“‘Beauty’ is one of them.
“How can you prove that anything is beautiful? Could you demonstrate to me, by logic, or reason, or by intellect, that the Fifth Symphony, or the Moonlight Sonata, was sheer beauty?
“Can you prove, by any method of intellect, why a sunset is beautiful?
“Describe to me, scientifically, the haunting, wistful fragrance of a bunch of violets.
“Yet, you come here professing the faith which, for more than nineteen centuries, has borne witness to spiritual realities, and you ask if one can prove that God exists. You ask me to prove it! How could my tiny mind prove God? What kind of a God could my little mind prove? You might as well ask the bird to prove the air in which it flies, or the minnow to prove the sea in which it swims.
“Let me ask you to prove that you exist. I’d be interested in hearing you try.
“There are mysteries all around us, stirring, wonderful, inexplicable.
“Take, for example, the strange phenomenon of falling in love.
“Have you ever asked the question, ‘How will I know when I fall in love?’ I have. I’ve asked it of blondes and brunettes, of redheads and of bald heads, of people everywhere, and the strange thing is I’ve always received the same answer, namely, ‘Don’t worry, brother, you’ll know.’
“Love, like beauty, like the haunting, wistful fragrance of violets, is a matter of perception and experience, not of proof. The great things by which we really live are not proven by logic, but by life; and, as that is true of love and beauty, so it is true of finding God and learning how close He stands to us.”
— “Peter Marshall,” A Man Called Peter



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