Jesus Needs New PR

Jesus Needs New PR


When Christians ignore the FACTS (and believe FICTION)

I was once guilty of believing this “sun fact,” and I always used it as a way to say… Isn’t God amazing?!

Found at Scotteriology.com (<-A really awesome blog, btw!)



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amy courts

posted December 29, 2010 at 8:38 pm


This may be my favorite post of yours. Ever.



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Steve D

posted December 29, 2010 at 8:41 pm


Ten feet in space is like a millionth of an inch here on earth. Isn’t God great that He gives us human intellect and doesn’t laugh us off of the planet when we don’t use it.



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    Maeve

    posted December 29, 2010 at 8:54 pm


    Hilarious! Your comment made me laugh out loud, literally. MPT, this is a great post!



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shannon lewis

posted December 29, 2010 at 8:44 pm


Of course, though that is – based on how he presented it – wrong, it’s not far from the truth, as there is a “habitable” zone for life around our sun, and it wouldn’t take too significant a change to severely impact life on our planet.



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JoelR

posted December 29, 2010 at 8:47 pm


I’m not sure where this originated, but I first saw it in an excerpt from Rob Brezsny’s book, Pronoia. I thought it was goofy, inane crap then and what you just posted didn’t help that assessment. I especially like the comment “Okay thats cool and all but don’t ever comment on my status telling me I’m wrong everrrr again. I didn’t ask you did I? Answer:NO”. Wow, that’s open-minded.



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Andie Redwine

posted December 29, 2010 at 8:52 pm


This is in your top ten of most amazing posts ever, especially the “dont ever comment on my status telling me that I am wrong everrrr again” part. I would have responded, “Well, excuuuuuuuuuuse me. – Galileo”



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    kristi

    posted December 29, 2010 at 9:37 pm


    That guy should have taken down his post when he realized he was wrong instead of being such a jerk. I love what your response would have been Andie:D



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      Noelle

      posted December 30, 2010 at 6:59 am


      I’m guessing gal, not guy, with the pic and the sassy misspelling of ever. And really now, sometimes we know it alls have it coming. I’m also guilty of throwing in unwanted facts.



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        Courtney

        posted December 31, 2010 at 12:36 am


        Oh man.

        “sometimes we know it alls have it coming.”

        Yes. Yes we do. I’m sure some people just reject the facts to spite people who think they are right all the time… even when they are right.

        I’ve done it before and had it done to me before. Its a vicious circle. Er… ellipse.



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LRA

posted December 29, 2010 at 8:52 pm


It’s sad, but this is basically what the folks over at the Discovery Institute are doing… when someone corrects them on their claims, they start screaming “academic freedom” and “viewpoint discrimination”.

They don’t seem to understand that you are welcome to your own opinions, but you are not welcome to your own facts.



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    Greg

    posted December 30, 2010 at 12:53 am


    I used to work for the Discovery Institute, albeit not in
    the science program. I never saw anyone respond with claimed
    discrimination when someone claimed to correct them. You don’t know
    how many academics and others in science face real, sudden threats
    to their careers when they dare to question a long-held assumption
    in an academic forum. What’s the point of having debate if you get
    tossed on your ass for debating?



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      nazani14

      posted December 30, 2010 at 8:30 am


      Examples, please. Name names. I’m sooo tired of hearing that the academic scientific community is some monolithic mafia-like entity that crushes diversity of opinion. The whole point of having forums and conferences is to hear about new ideas. I’m 58, and my understanding of nature is vastly different that it was when I was in high school. That’s because the most basic assumptions HAVE been challenged. Of course, if you present inadequate evidence for your claim or your challenge, you will be considered incompetent. Maybe later research will prove your claim, maybe not.

      Also, you need to define “long-held” in terms of today’s pace of discovery. We’ve only known about deep sea life forms that do not depend on the sun since 1977, and just a few weeks a go we learned that life does not have to be carbon-based.



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      LRA

      posted December 30, 2010 at 2:35 pm


      Greg, if you worked for the DI, then you should know and be familiar with (by now) the work of Casey Luskin. He regularly claims those things.

      Also, the reason the questioning is problematic is because it is NOT science. Period. End of story. No mas.

      What do you think would happen to a physicist who suddenly began to question the basic sphere-like shape of our planet in favor of a flat Earth? How about a astronomer who suddenly began to promote astrology? How do you think these people would be treated?

      The Discovery Institute has a long history of embarrassing itself not only in the scientific community (of which I am a part having completed my masters in molecular bio/ neuroscience), it has also embarrassed itself legally (see Kitzmiller v. Dover), and has embarrassed itself among even philosophers of science (of which I am becoming a part having completed my degree in philosophy and seeking a PhD in that area).

      There is no excuse whatsoever for their shenanigans. If they want to do scientific work, then where are their labs? Their field data? Have you ever seen anyone at the DI do laboratory work or collect field data from which to make strides in evolutionary biology (remember, Behe is a biochemist, not an evolutionary biologist!)

      Lest you still question what I’m saying, perhaps this video will help you understand why we are tired of the DI and their lying and bullsh*t:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X50lH-XxHI&feature=player_embedded

      Like I said, you are welcome to your own opinions, but you are not welcome to your own facts.



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        LRA

        posted December 30, 2010 at 2:47 pm


        “You don’t know
        how many academics and others in science face real, sudden threats
        to their careers when they dare to question a long-held assumption
        in an academic forum.”

        Actually, I do know. I’ve been part of academia for about a decade now. Have you ever heard of tenure? Behe still practices biochemistry because he has tenure. That’s what tenure is for. Tenured professors don’t get fired for having a difference of opinion. So the persecution that the DI feigns is total bull.



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          Greg

          posted December 30, 2010 at 3:02 pm


          This flame war is exactly why I don’t like to talk about this stuff. I left Discovery in 2003 and don’t know Casey Luskin very well. I still get their e-mail newsletter so I know generally what they’re up to. The names that immediately come to mind for career threats are Richard Sternberg and Guillermo Gonzalez. I remember from my time there (we were all in the same office) that the cases we heard about most often were from high school teachers whose principals or school districts told them to drop the critical examination of evolutionary tenets after parents or the local ACLU branch gave them hell. Discussing this subject in open seems about the same now as questioning the Roman Catholic Church’s view of the universe in the 16th century. I’m not as brash as some of the Discovery folks so I shy away from it, and have no interest in continuing in a flame war. (I realize how ironic this is, given the subject of this discussion is the parameters of debate, but it’s not my fight.)



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          LRA

          posted December 30, 2010 at 4:17 pm


          Am I coming across as flaming? I thought I was coming across as stern but factual. Hmmm, the dangers of a lack of body language and tone in a written forum, I guess.

          I’m a certified teacher in the state of Texas where I have three years of experience teaching in public schools. It is not the job of public school teachers to question matters that are SETTLED in science because of their personal religious bias. In fact, it is ILLEGAL. The Supreme Court ruled specifically on creationism in public schools in 1983. In response to that, the DI has tried to “hide” their creationism in the form of “intelligent design” and in claiming that their work is scientific (a fact that was debunked when their “Wedge document” was discovered and when the term “cdesign proponentsists,” an amalgam of “creationist” and “design proponents” was discovered in the textbook “Of Pandas and People.)

          Let me be clear. Their work is NOT scientific, it is rhetorical and philosophical. It does NOT belong in a science class. It IS creationist. It is illegal to teach in a public school science classroom. Done and done.

          The folks at the DI are fully aware of this, and yet they lie about it anyway, still trying to get creationism taught in public schools. They have a religious/political agenda and are NOT interested in the facts.

          For more information, you may want to see this website:

          http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs.html



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          LRA

          posted December 30, 2010 at 4:24 pm


          Ok- I just re-read what I said earlier, and maybe it did come across a bit as flaming.

          Sorry bout that!



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      LRA

      posted December 30, 2010 at 10:44 pm


      I came across this video where Mark Ryland (VP of the DI in 2008) twice claims “academic freedom” for ID. When asked for evidence he says “There is lots of evidence…” and then fails to cite any.

      Typical.

      http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/debating-intelligent-design/6eivk2z



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Marni

posted December 29, 2010 at 9:38 pm


haha This is good!



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Adam Shields

posted December 29, 2010 at 10:14 pm


I read a book a couple months ago that I think is relevant to this. It is called, “Mistakes were made, but not by me”. It is primarily a psychology book but spends time talking about why people ignore evidence that disproves their prior beliefs. I have been thinking a lot about it in regards to Christians that seem to so desire to believe lies about those around them.



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    JoelR

    posted December 29, 2010 at 11:01 pm


    “Mistakes Were Made, But Not By Me”?!? I love this! Can I get a t-shirt with this printed on it?



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Charlie's Church of Christ

posted December 29, 2010 at 10:26 pm


without even knowing science it seems a bit ridiculous that 10 feet could make the difference between normal weather and freezing.



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Greg

posted December 30, 2010 at 2:09 am


This is a pretty laughable claim, but if we’re evaluating
it as Christians trying to act with humility and show people the
error of their ways (or easily mixed-up facts) in a personal and
respectful way, calling them out on their Facebook wall in front of
a few hundred people isn’t the way to do it. People often react to
public humiliation with anger before reflecting and giving a
measured response. I have a feeling this person would have posted a
gracious update correcting the statement if the correcter had
privately messaged them on Facebook, explaining the habitable
zone.



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    Matt Emery

    posted December 30, 2010 at 7:34 am


    So it’s on the person responding to make sure that the original poster doesn’t get angry at their response? Wat.

    Sounds a lot like “Mistakes were made, but not by me” actually…



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      noelle

      posted December 30, 2010 at 11:17 am


      Mark, people hate it when smarties use snopes. I love snopes. Perhaps you saw a few days ago on this site someone snopesed out a letter to the editor as a fake, but even our resident smarties were quick to ignore it and still comment as though it were real. Now I try to use wikipedia for everything. In some weak moments I’ll pick FB fights, it’s best to let it go. Too many friends and family there. Don’t need them praying for me without reason.

      Matt E. I would neverrrr correct your spelling of wat. aren’t you my cousin? i’ll keep from picking fb fights with you



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    Mark

    posted December 30, 2010 at 10:05 am


    If people are going to post lies and misinformation, they should be politely challenged.
    My fundie sister once posted a video on Facebook about the atheist college profession and the dropped chalk. I recall hearing this story as a child and know it was an urban legend. So I post this link as a response.
    http://www.snopes.com/religion/chalk.asp
    Her response to me was “Well it made you think” and then she deleted her children from my friends list on Facebook.
    I had a non-religious co-worker who once sent me the classic “if I forward this e-mail to 25 people, I will get a free meal at Outback Steakhouse”. I reply to her with another Snopes link. Her response was that while she did fell embarrassed, she was glad I told her the information was false. She then added Snopes to her favorite web-sites and would research any questionable e-mail before her forwarded them.



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JENN

posted December 30, 2010 at 7:31 am


I would like to point out that these comments are just as funny and interesting as the post itself. :)



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davidpeck

posted December 30, 2010 at 7:52 am


I often wonder when responding to false/fake emails that get forwarded to me if I should respond personally to the sender or globally to everyone they copied on the email. I generally send it globally but try not to be an *ss about it. Helping the person who sent the email learn to use Snopes.com is one thing, but I’d rather reduce the chance that the others send it further along as fact.

If you’re going to state something in a public forum, you have to be ready to be answered in the same public forum.



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Josephine Holmes

posted December 30, 2010 at 8:25 am


Oh my gosh!! This is actually news to me…I was told this by a Christian Scientist preacher years ago and never questioned it…well he was a Christian a Scientist and a preacher afterall…you don’t get a much higher calling!!! :-)
Glad to have things cleared up so that I don’t spread it to any more of the Year 5 children I teach!! Oops…



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Jessica

posted December 30, 2010 at 9:05 am


Never has a site amused AND hurt me so much.



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Matt

posted December 30, 2010 at 10:26 am


This exact thing happened to me! A co-worker of mine on
facebook was outraged that Obamba was canceling the national day of
prayer and our nation’s values were crumbling. I did 2 seconds of
research, found out it wasn’t true – of course. I supplied a link
to snopes in a polite and non-condecending way. That was ignored.
After 3 more people were freaking out I told them it wasn’t true
and was promptly unfriended. Some people just want an excuse to be
against something. Whether it’s true or not isn’t
important.



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Brian

posted December 30, 2010 at 10:28 am


I love this, but it’s sad that such ignorance is so pervasive among Christians. For many, it seems ignorance and faith go hand-in-hand.



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Scott Bailey

posted December 30, 2010 at 12:06 pm


Matthew,

Thanks for the link and the compliment. Be well.



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joel k

posted December 30, 2010 at 12:59 pm


What I find more annoying are the persecution claims made by Christians that are not true, such as “The Court has banned prayer in school” or “Secular radio won’t play such and such country song because it mentions Jesus” and so forth. The comment about the perfect placement of the Earth, while not true in the specifics (10 feet is laughably precise) is still generally true. If the Earth were much closer to the sun, given the specifics of our environment, size, etc., it would be unbearably hot. If it were much further away, it would be unbearably cold. That said, perhaps, it was annoyingly pedantic to point out the absurdity of the specific claim. Nonetheless, it kinda undermines the whole “God is amazing” statement to respond to criticism with such venom.



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    LRA

    posted December 30, 2010 at 2:42 pm


    How is stating the facts “venom”?



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      LRA

      posted December 30, 2010 at 2:43 pm


      D’oh!!! My bad. You’re saying the girl is being venomous. Sorry. Poor reading on my part!
      :(



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        Matt from OH-IO

        posted December 30, 2010 at 4:09 pm


        LRA, lol, you are becoming my favorite part of this blog. You are like the resident scientist. I don’t mean that in a bad way, you just bring a different spin towards every subject.



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          LRA

          posted December 30, 2010 at 4:22 pm


          Aw! Thanks!

          Well, I know I can be blunt, but I try to admit when I’m wrong too!

          Sure is embarrassing to make a silly ass of oneself!

          LOL!



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