Flunking Sainthood

Flunking Sainthood


Why Are Mormons the Third-Most-Hated Religious Group in America?

posted by Jana Riess

American+Grace+cover.jpg

Everyone is talking about the sociology of religion doorstopper American Grace by David Campbell and Bowling Alone author Robert D. Putnam. I read it this summer and am re-reading parts of it now. It’s a great book that will be fodder for several future blog posts about various demographic trends in American religion. The question I want to consider today is how much Mormons are still hated, despite the strong assimilationist trends of the last sixty years.

Islam tops the list as the most-disliked religion in America, which is not surprising; Buddhism comes in second, which is. The researchers felt that Buddhists scored so low because few Americans actually know a Buddhist (or realize that they already know a Buddhist). However, the researchers then note that Jews, who are also a distinct minority, came out on top in terms of how other religious groups regard them, so small size does not totally explain unpopularity.

The bottom line for Mormons, the authors say? “Mormons like everyone else, while almost everyone else dislikes Mormons.” The only fellow religious group to give Mormons a “net positive” rating was the Jews. (This is interesting, considering the anger many Jews have expressed about Holocaust baptisms, a detail the authors don’t discuss. And incidentally, check out this great new Mormon-Jewish blog at J Weekly.)


Three key findings:

Evangelicals don’t like us. In 2008, when Mitt Romney was running for president, “the same percentage of Americans told pollsters they would not vote for a Mormon presidential candidate as had said the same about a Catholic candidate in 1960.” Even worse news for Romney: those numbers had not improved since his dad ran for president forty years before. Among evangelicals, more than half said they would have a problem with a Mormon being president, and only 46% reported having a positive image of Mormons.

Secular Americans don’t like us. Unaffiliated Americans–the rapidly growing population that claims no religion–dislike Mormons even more than evangelicals. Only 45% of those surveyed reported having a warm feeling toward the Latter-day Saints.

We really, really like ourselves. Mormons ranked highest in “in-group attachment,” a finding the researchers felt was surprising, especially since three of the other groups that made the top five–Jews, Catholics, and Black Protestants–have their bonds cemented by a shared ethnicity. About 85% of Mormons say they feel a great warmth toward their own tribe.

The key to future acceptance and understanding, the authors suggest, lies in what they call “bridging”: assimilation into the broader culture. It’s easier to hate and demonize a “they” that lives primarily in Utah, goes to Mormon-dominant universities, and stays within its own religious enclave of friends and family. What breaks down religious barriers is personal contact at work, school, and neighborhood gatherings. This is why the LDS Church’s new “And I’m a Mormon” PR campaign is a fine idea, insofar as it goes.

But according to sociologist Armand Mauss, Mormons have already been on a basic trajectory of assimilation for more than sixty years, so the answer clearly isn’t merely building personal bridges. Despite such bridges, Mormons remain universally disliked. It’s partly about theology; evangelicals are still upset about some Mormon teachings. But it’s also likely about conservative politics and same-sex marriage, two issues where the religiously unaffiliated come down on the opposite side of most Latter-day Saints.

I’ve blogged before about why I wish the LDS Church would reconsider its stance on homosexuality, so I won’t belabor that point here. And if the Church does ever reconsider, I hope it will do so because of the justice demands of Christian theology, and not the popularity whims of a sociological survey.

But here’s something that all Mormons can do, and it doesn’t involve politics: it would help if we stopped regarding ourselves as the finest people on the planet. We ought to take a long, hard look at the fact that we voted our own group tops in this research. It’s one thing to be proud of our religious group and its teachings, but it’s another thing entirely to communicate, as many Mormons seem to, that we feel we have a monopoly on religious truth and strong families. A dose of humility is in order here.



  • kenneth

    If it makes you feel any better, I hate Catholicism and most stripes of evangelicals more…..

  • Grumpy Old Person

    Why are the Mormons “hated”? (Not that I agree, but …)
    Could it possibly haved something to do with Prop H8?
    In fact, why do people of any religion feel they have the right to butt into other people’s lives so very much in America?

  • http://annmjohnson.wordpress.com Course Correction

    I have been surprised recently when asking non-Mormon friends for feedback on a novel I’m writing with a Mormon setting. My novel is not of the “faith-promoting” genre,but when I’ve pressed for honest feedback, most tell me they would not read a book about Mormons unless the Mormon characters solve their problems by leaving their church. These friends who have lived in Utah see absoltely nothing positive about Mormonism.

  • http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/12/the-feeling-thermometer-or-everyone-dislikes-mormons/ BHodges

    I’m all for doses of humility. It should also be pointed out that Mormons ranked very high in acknowledging truth in other religions (although the survey didn’t delve into what sorts of things Mormons saw as true in other religions). Mormons ranked highest (IIRC) in regarding their religion as *the* true religion, but also highest in regarding everyone else as likely to be ultimately “saved” for lack of a more Mormon word.
    I think some Mormons might look at the numbers and feel like they are strongly disliked because they have the truth, that is, that opposition is evidence of truth. So in that regard, here’s my little sermon. It bears repeating that criticism of the Church does not validate its truth claims. Granted, the feeling that one is right based on evidence of opposition from others isn’t confined to Mormons, it has been embraced in various contexts by various parties. Further, Church teachings “oppose” various things but this opposition isn’t considered evidence of the “truth” of those things.
    While I believe that truth can be (and perhaps often is) opposed loudly, I don’t view opposition in and of itself as proof for truth. Else, whenever I openly or strongly opposed something I would only be confirming its truth. Perhaps most importantly, to read opposition as a confirmation of truth can lead to overlooking ones own part in eliciting negative feedback.

  • http://www.jillcarroll.com Dr. Jill Carroll

    Interesting piece and research.
    One explanation offered by one of my colleagues at Boston University is the phenomenon he calls the fear of the “near Other”. In short, it’s easier to feel ok about or tolerant of people who believe completely differently than you than it is to be ok with those who believe very much like you on most points of doctrine, EXCEPT for one or two main points. Hence, they are “other” but “near” to your views – and this creates anxiety, fear, etc. It counts, in Freudian terms, as a form of the “uncanny”.
    So – evangelical Christians see Mormons as the “near Other” – conservative, family oriented, traditional values, scripture based, using Jesus language, etc. – BUT – different views of Jesus, different scriptures, etc.
    It’s the same in the Muslim community with the mainline Sunni or Shi’ite groups, on the one hand, with the Bahai or the Amadiyya on the other – very similar, but on one or two main issues they diverge.
    Anyway……I’ve always found this phenomenon interesting and able to explain perhaps one piece of the puzzle (certainly not all of it).

  • nnmns

    I suspect JC’s post has come close to the mark. Evangelicals and others may see Mormonism as more of a threat because they look and act so much like “Christians” but are not. And of course they proselytize; only Christians are supposed to be able to proselytize, and then definitely not to one’s own group of Christians!
    A reason to fear them is the power they showed on the Prop 8 issue, and the stance they took. Obviously they are willing to take rights away from other Americans and to put money and effort into doing so. That is not being good Americans, though it’s way too common for groups of Americans to do it.

  • Jana Riess

    Dr. Jill — yes, that is it exactly. I have no analysis or sociological research to back up this idea of the danger of the “near other,” but here is a great joke I heard that rings totally true:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2005/sep/29/comedy.religion

  • http://ckbigelow.blogspot.com Christopher Bigelow

    Another possible reason, from a believing Mormon perspective, is that the devil and his ilk are certainly turning hearts and minds against Mormons whenever and however possible. All humans are subject to evil suggestion, and many choose to believe and act upon false ideas fed to them through whatever channel, whether through other people or through spiritual impressions from demonic sources.

  • Martin Crapo

    Let’s begin with fact: There are more Mormons outside the US (let alone Utah) than are in the US. Let’s continue with debate: Christianity does not demand acceptance of Same sex Marriage. Mormons love their Homosexual Brothers and Sisters. To not accept same sex marriage is not to not tolerate Homosexuals. Partisanship in society is in essence the dialog. We don’t all have to agree on everything to love one another. No one has ever answered sufficiently my question, that is why were most of us born with sex-determining plumbing and features? Are we not all here (in part) to pro-create? I know, we would all like to think that we are all here just for fun and recreation. Fun is good; pro-creation, is essential.

  • Raymond Takashi Swenson

    Another way to look at the data is to conclude that more Mormons (as a percentage) have adopted the teaching of Christ to love not only their friends but also their enemies, while many other people in society, including those who claim to be exemplary Christians, have failed in following the teachings of the Christ.
    I recall that a coouple of years ago, when it was reported that the Southern Baptist Convention had lost net membership over a year’s time, a leader of the SBC quoted in the Atlanta newspaper offered as an explanation that Baptists have a reputation for being judgmental of others, and the SBC had to overcome that handicap if it wanted to reestablish itself on a growth trend.
    Is it thus possible that the fact that Mormons are held in such low esteem by their Christian brothers and sisters means that many of those Christians are falling down in meeting one of the criteria that Christ established for his chosen people: that they treat each person, even the least, as if they were Christ.

  • nnmns

    Interesting that RTS here complains about people not loving Mormons but has no problem with Mormons not loving homosexuals.
    As for the procreation red herring, lots of people marry without procreating and lots of married people raise their children and stop procreating and no one tells them to divorce. But it’s ok to tell homosexuals they can’t marry with the excuse they aren’t procreating.
    Hypocrisy all around. Historically marriage was about managing and retaining wealth, and homosexuals have that need as much as anyone. And with society’s rules marriage is about health care availability and other things homosexuals need as much as anyone. And marriage is handy for procreation but even more it’s handy for a committed relationship. And homosexuals need those as much as anyone.
    So to deny marriage to homosexuals is a sign of hate, not love.

  • http://larryogan.com Larry Ogan

    In my experience most people I meet have a good impression of the Mormons they have interacted with in their past. They appreciate our friendliness, helpfulness and commitment to family. But, when it comes to our doctrine and beliefs they are usually not interested in engaging in that discussion. Above, the lists of most hated religions reads Islam, Buddhism and Mormons not Mormonism. Leaving Utah out of the mix with their peculiar culture, is it our belief system or us as a people that are hated? Should the list read Muslims, Buddhist and Mormons? I do agree that our humility can be problematic with phrases like “the only true church” comment. I prefer “We have the fullness of the Gospel”. By expressing that idea we do not deny their Truth and President Hinckley once said this opens the avenue to offer to provide them additional information to add to their Truth. Anyone who is believer in any religion and has taken the time to actually read the Book of Mormon usually find no fault in its content. They seem to take exception to the gold plates and Joseph Smith’s revelations. Who knows what revelations will come from God in the near future but I’m ever hopeful.

  • http://www.bookofmormonnotes.wordpress.com grego

    Why?
    1. It’s polarizing–in what it is, what it stands for, and in those who live accordingly. No fornication, no adultery, no alcohol, no coffee, tithing… (Anything else fun that can’t be done without breaking God’s commandment?) In contrast, as my Jewish friend basically said about most Jews, “God doesn’t have to do much with our lives, and especially any commandments. We are our own gods.”
    2. Ministers and religions actively rail against it, most likely because it’s one of the very few churches that has missionaries, especially called ones, that actively convert others. I’ve heard this a few times from second-hand witnesses and seen it on fliers, just in our area.
    3. It’s unknown.
    4. It has some interesting things in its history that are not boring and not far removed from the general public (for example, compare “Blacks and the priesthood” vs. “burning someone at the stake for being a witch”, or “blood atonement” vs. “foreordination in Calvanism”, or “men on the moon” vs. “transubstantiation”, etc.)
    5. It’s easy and in vogue to laugh at/ mock/ etc., especially after #1, #2, #3, and #4.
    6. It’s surprisingly… uncomfortable because… good, nice, seemingly smart people believe it and it might actually… be true.
    7. And yet, sometimes those people seem very irrational and not together in the way they believe and live it (not exactly the Christ-like life for some), and/ or different than what *others* imagine a Christ-like life *should* be like for many (homosexuality, etc.).
    Unfortunately for most at this time, all that means “bad”.
    Is it because LDS believe they are the true church, the true religion? Um, don’t about all religions/ churches believe that?? If that’s not it, what else is it about “we are the true church” that’s the problem? I’d be interested in knowing. Perhaps there is a condescending feeling, a threatened feeling, or a “no need to tell everyone” feeling involved?
    -=
    But seriously… how rigorous is the “most-disliked religion” survey? Buddhists (Kung Fu with David Carradine, Karate Kid, Bullet Proof, 2012, Dalai Lama, all the well-behaved Asian principal roll students, etc.) beat out Jehovah’s Witnesses, televangelists, Mormons, etc.??!! That’s a big bite for me to swallow…

  • nnmns

    Yes, televangelists should be atop anyone’s list of People We’d Be Better Off Without.

  • http://latterdaymainstreet.com Hellmut

    I am not sure that building personal bridges will help. Didn’t Gary Lawrence find that the better Americans knew Mormons, the less they liked us?
    That makes sense to me. We always have an agenda when we approach non-members. We are very friendly to them as long as there is a chance that they might convert. When they choose otherwise, we are not so friendly anymore.
    And if that happens in Utah, your children will now be labeled a bad influence.
    Then there is the whole “milk before meat” thing, which means that we are routinely lying to non-Mormons in the name of God. We are so eager to make our Church appear in the best light, we will be dishonest in a jiffy and don’t even notice it anymore.
    Well, our “friends” aren’t stupid. They are picking up on those patterns.
    If we really want to be respected, we need to treat non-Mormons better. Otherwise “bridge building,” which is just another agenda anyways, will only be counterproductive.

  • TheTruth

    Don’t know that Mormons are so hated as the title of this topic suggests. More correctly, it is the hypocrisy of that religion that is so hated by many people. For example, while Mormons proclaim themselves to be good Christians in their usual holier-than-thou fashion, no state in the USA uses pornography more than do people in that state. Mormons are noted for using profanities and for their racial hate of blacks or other minorities. They blindly adhere to the archaic and useless ideas of the Republican party. While Jesus said to love thy neighbor, Mormons all too often prefer to hate their neighbors. Jesus said those who take up arms shall die by them. But that never stopped Mormons from enlisting in the military and killing people.
    Why do people hate Mormonism? Easy ~ too much hypocrisy in that religion.

  • WJ

    “But here’s something that all Mormons can do, and it doesn’t involve politics: it would help if we stopped regarding ourselves as the finest people on the planet. We ought to take a long, hard look at the fact that we voted our own group tops in this research.”
    I think this is why blogs have become such a potent outlet for disaffected members of the church: it provides an easy forum for members to generate animosity towards one another.
    I find the suggestion that Mormons should stop regarding one another so highly as rather odd and senseless. How does disliking one another serve us better, whether it be furthering the purposes for which the church was established or for simply making Mormons’ lives more pleasant? There is no reason we can’t have high regard for our own while cultivating respect and kinship with members from other groups. To contend that we will have made progress when we like each other less seems a little off the mark.

  • Troy Stott

    The Real Truth
    Mormons are known for using profanities…
    Racial hate of blacks and minorities…
    Mormons hate their neighbors…
    Is this some official consensus? There are nearly 14 million Mormons around the world and this poster (poser) thinks he’s got them all figured out. I really don’t think it’s valid, not even close.

  • Eliza R. Snitch

    As a disaffected Mormon in a love/hate relationship with my people, I would have to say that the one thing that bothers me most about Mormonism is the lack of introspection and self-examination. It never occurs to them that they might be wrong. It rarely occurs to them that they might be hurting people (Prop 8, policy on homosexuality, ERA, blacks and priesthood, misogyny). People who dare to question the leadership’s judgment are seen as dangerous apostates who have been deceived by Satan. They are so certain that they have the truth, that they aren’t interested in any other point of view, and in fact consider other points of view to be wicked, or at the very least misguided. I would have a lot less problems with Mormonism if it didn’t encourage people to be arrogant about how their beliefs and their way of life are the best.
    And by the way, not every religion thinks that it is the one true religion, and not every church claims to be the one true church.

  • Jason (Orthodox Jew)

    In contrast, as my Jewish friend basically said about most Jews, “God doesn’t have to do much with our lives, and especially any commandments. We are our own gods.”
    This is the saddest thing I have ever read. Judaism teaches that there is a balance that the higher a potential one way, the higher the other. That statement explains why so much is wrong with America. It is not surprising that Jews are leading our country down that dark path, just like it’s not surprising that many Jews are leading the USA on the correct path. Judaism at its core is about a relationship between G-D and humanity and the role that humans (both Jew and non-Jew) have in finishing creation. Rabbi’s will tell you that the men of the Great assembly (2nd Temple Period) prayed to G-D that the temptation for idol worship be eliminated (to keep the balance that is why prophecy ended then to) but the statement of “We are our own G-Ds” makes me think they didn’t complete their task.
    Jason

  • http://postmormon.org Dogger Dog

    I’m a resigned member, quite disgusted with the church, and yet I think the first poster’s remarks are way off, unfounded, and totally unfair. Yes, there’s a thick layer of hypocrisy in the LDS church (with its ever elusively changing stance/doctrine/history), but that’s not why the public at large hates it. Hell, our own government has re-written its own history countless times (Abraham Lincoln, anyone?) They hate it because they don’t UNDERSTAND it. It’s the same with the Buddhism thing – what’s there to hate about that? It’s one of the most pacifist faiths in existence. The only Buddhist people know is Richard Gere, and he’s pretty harmless. Going back to misunderstanding – that’s what engenders such a strong reaction in people. Is it warranted? Probably not, but the LDS church has backed itself into a corner by changing its stance on things, and in the information age, it can’t hide anymore. The future will be interesting to say the least, as its numbers continue to dwindle (most that growth in the post-internet world is organic, from the growth analyses I’ve seen).

  • http://www.bookofmormonnotes.wordpress.com grego

    Jason and all,
    Just to clarify, I didn’t want to make him a symbol of all Jews and their beliefs with that comment–he was sharing his view with me. I know there are different major camps in Judaism, and even in the last (furthest from “tradition”)–the one he put himself in–there are differences. (Not that he was a horrible guy, either. ;) )

  • pat Grimm

    Once again religion is proving to be the enemy of God as it was during Jesus’ ministry. The only time that Jesus became angry was with the ruling religious power. All religion is a smokescreen to keep people AWAY from God, not to Him. People hate the Mormons? What about the Roman Catholics who in their history have killed, supported terror regimes, taken people’s money and never offered their flock the Holy Bible? All religions fall short of the grace of God. The Mormons stand out because they are arrogant enough to have made up their own story about God, and have ignored His holy Word. Do not let anyone, including a Mormon tell you that they believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, they believe that He is an angel just as the Jehovah Witnesses do, now that’s ANOTHER strange group. All we need to know is that God sent His only Son to save us and love us, all else is but dirty rags.

  • Gary Mac

    All religions AND denominations, have their laws to govern their gods. Doesn’t matter if one is a Catholic, Baptist, Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, you name it, all of these govern their gods by law making their gods what they want him to be or not be. The difference in these and one who is in Christ is, if one has Gods Spirit residing in him as Jesus had Gods Spirit in him then we are conformed into His image and are as Jesus was: He in you and you in Him become one and all those laws designated to those religions are fulfilled and no longer under those tutorials. The KJV calls them schoolmaster and in Christ we are no longer under these regulations for your gods. Gal. 3:24-25.
    The reason people cannot agree about the Christ if spawn form these religions where opinions differ. But one thing is certain if one has what Jesus had then he will no longer be a part of any of these and become a witness for God as Jesus was witness of Him. All these denominations are only a witness to their laws for tradition formed to make their god what they want Him to be instead of following the way of Christ and be one with the Father. Christ in YOU is your hope of glory and we all know that Christ simply means for you to be anointed of God, the anointed one.
    Col. 1:26. Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
    27. To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
    28. Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
    That perfection is a commandment not a request and there is much to be said about Him perfecting YOU just as Jesus was perfected by Him the same.
    Mat 5: 48. Be ye therefore perfect, even as you’re Father which is in heaven is perfect.
    Most religions do not believe they can be perfect because their laws state otherwise contrary to the Christ.

  • Your Name

    The reason mormons are hated is that they will not compumise there believes to be like other religions and they should not because god doesnot change because one thing they have a better way and a sin is a sin and to justifly it is a sin to.

  • http://flippethedolphin flipperthedolphin

    Having some members of my family spend many years in the U.S, and having an American sister-in-law, my older brother, niece and nephew spend many years in Salt Lake City, and despite being a Christian, obviously, I’m acquainted quite well with Mormonism, and despite their, at times random beliefs, they are really nice people.
    Once one religious group(and sad to say, this includes some Christians(as much as I’m passionate about being one), start to claim “EXCLUSIVE ACCESS TO THE TRUTH”, this is when religion can become ugly. Even I have to at times be careful about that, as no-one group has all the answers. We are all on a journey.
    Of all the religions in the world, their is only one true one, and that is compassion. flipperthedolphin

  • shannon

    My son recently joined the Morman church. It has been an interesting road for him and I. It had made me look into my denomination more and what we believe. There are still things for him that he questions. I am just glad that he has found something that he can hold onto. We both agree that both denominations believe in God and Jesus and are taught to live good live. Isn’t that what it is all about?

  • Shirley

    what I don’t like is criticizing people’s religious beliefs, who are we to tell people what they should believe spiritually. However, Islam is trying to take over the world the ideology is like Hitler’s regimen. Everyone can have their own opinion but keep it to yourself. we have enough hatred in this world I think the Moslem & Jew are the most hated. Mormons stick to themselves & don’t bother anyone

  • warren

    If anybody including Mormons really looked into the background of Mormonism they would discover that the Mormon religion is in fact a CULT. It is not Christianity in any shape or form. In fact the museum of American History has a document for anyone who would inquire Denying any geological claims that the Mormons have made reguarding their history. the question is How could anybody be so gullable to follow Mormonism. See the movie “the Godmakers” or contact Saints Alive ( an org. of EX-mormons who were shown the truth.

  • G Jones

    I studies Mormonism and love my neighbors who are Mormon. They are very respectful, hardworking, and gentle people. They love their kids and community. Great People!!!

  • Amayo

    Warren… I don’t understand your comment “It is not Christianity in any shape or form.” What is your definition of Christianity? To me, its someone who follows the teaching of Jesus Christ… and the church is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. His name is on the church…and if you’ve ever been to a church service or read the Book of Mormon, you would know that its all about following Christ. And about your geological claims… you may want to check the updates. Each year science and geologists find more and more proof that the Book of Mormon is accurate… many of them don’t want to admit it, but they are about the facts and can’t deny it. You should look up the movie “Journeys of Faith”… it show much of the science about it. And the book “Evidence of The Book Of Mormon”. It never makes sense to only look at one side of something and claim to understand it… so I encourage you to do more research before you make such bold claims.

  • Truthy Ruthy

    The Bible states that Jesus is God’s ONLY begotten son, but Mormons say that Lucifer is Jesus’ brother. That’s enough for me to shun Mormons.

  • J Vincent

    How many of you are so closed minded. Do we think that Heavenly Father is done with his creation and why does a certain religion want to hide the truth. And thay afraid what they are doing. How much of the word of God has been changed or not printed because a certain religion wants control. Open your minds up. God is not done and has more coming. If we can not believe that Joseph Smith had been visited by an angel then how are we to believe that anything else in the Holy Scriptures is real? Wake up people. I grew up around a family who are LDS. They tried and tried to have me join the church. It took years and I am now LDS. And I did it on my own time after praying and asking for guidance. But I did it on my time, and I am not a member of a cult. God is great and his Son Jesus Christ is my savior. God bless all of you. I am praying for you. God loves you and I love you.

  • Stan Parker

    Any “religion” that can trace its roots to one human (Smith) (Jones), etc. is a CULT. If you have ever been to Salt Lake City or Bountiful, Utah, you will find the people are weird in the sense that they all appear to be fake in their dialog and appearance.
    Their belief that they will all be “gods” someday separated me from them quickly and completely. They are rich and appear to be friendly, but when you see what goes on within their religious circles, it will send a shiver up your spine. Stay away from them. The facts speak for themselves.

  • http://bdbs.co Shala

    Interesting comments! I am a very proud Mormon. That said, I realize that the world is filled with wonderful people who love the Lord and their families and they are not Mormon. There are many Mormons who live a sheltered life in Utah, but there are many of us that see the good in many religions. Mormons are like all people, you will find narrow minded, covenant breaking people in all religions, not just Mormonism. I wish it was different, but we are all human. Many people out there have made judgements about Mormons from a negative standpoint only and that is wrong as Amayo has said. I am open enough to look at other religions with an open mind, those of you who are so narrow minded as to think we are a cult should open up and study the whole truth. I have a firm testimony of Mormonism as I have a firm belief that many non-mormons live better lives than many Mormons and that many religions have a great deal of good in them.

  • Charles

    If we can elect a muslim then we could elecet a mormon

  • Kedric

    As an “unaffiliated” like those mentioned in the article, let me clarify why we (or perhaps just I) dislike Evangelicals and Mormons. It’s simple: aggressive proselytizing. Most unaffiliated Americans were not raised that way, it was a journey of great pain and soul searching to reject the beliefs they grew up with. For many it has meant alienation from their families. Unaffiliated people, agnostics, and athiests, do not want you to try and convince us you’re right. You won’t. The only way we’ll ever accept your ideas, is if we see the truth of it on our own. We are people who have been hurt, and your aggressive attempts to convert people sting the unhealed pain of our own spiritual struggles.

  • Gary Lovgren

    Please unsubscribe me from your network.
    Thank you
    Gary

  • Bj

    As a convert to Mormonism 10 years ago I can say that just like any religion, we should be focusing on our faith and love of Christ. Too many people loose faith, or falter and blame it on the people. I was Baptist before converting, and I can say that other religions think Mormons are satan’s spawn! Yet we love All people, and know that all will be in a degree of heaven SOMEDAY.

  • Rosemarie

    Fear and ignorance create an atmosphere and environment for hatred, discrimination and malice. Religion is an attempt to have a structured belief in God, spirituality is an individual relationship with God. The Mormons are no different than most in regards to famil and values. Like many religious beliefs and organizations, the extremism and lack of tolerance creates distance and isolation for those that don’t totally conform. As the mother of a son who has converted? to Mormonism, I am careful to learn more about the beliefs and rituals and how that will affect my son and grandchildren. I believe in God, not a man who is deemed equal to God as the Mormons or some of the questionally racial and discriminatory beliefs that are a basis for their faith. I appauld Mormonism’s approach to some family values, however, their sociocultural and sociopolitical institutions and beliefs also harbor and maintain subtle levels of racism,sexism, prejudice and discrimination as all institutional systems in our society overall. I believe we all benefit if we are open to learning and embrace change.

  • Jack West

    Charles, Obama isn’t a muslim: he was a Christian in the United Church of Christ.If the Mormons are a cult(which I disagree with), they sure do sing good.

  • Alan Beavers

    I lived among the mormons in Utah and I learned a few things about in the13 yrs. I lived there. For one thing they prejudice against the black people in their church, meaning they can’t hold any major office.
    Also for the major part if your not mormon they frown on you. Also in their teachings they say they believe in the Bible, but yet their book of mormon that go against the teachings of the Bible. Which is what most religions do. But to me GOD and JESUS is not a religion, it’s about a relationship. Read James 1:27 to find out what true religion is all about. Then read John 14:6 and it will tell you what JESUS who and what JESUS is about.

  • Michigan Dave

    Mormonism is considered a cult because it denies the essential, orthodox teachings of the Bible: The nature of God, Justification (saved by faith alone, through grace alone, in Christ alone), etc. Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Mormonism is also a polytheistic religion (belief in many gods), while Christianity is monotheistic (belief in one God). These simple facts alone separate Mormonism from orthodox Christianity forever!

  • Your Name Jennifer

    To Michigan Dave-
    I was a Mormon for 15 years, and I must have missed all the other God’s you say Mormon’s believe in. God is God and He is the only one. So when you say Mormonism is a polytheistic religion, I think you need to research some more. Thank you.

  • Glenn

    The Mormons, strictly speaking as a people are incredible folks. Very loving and generous. Extremely family and community oriented. However In MY opinion they were led astray by human leadership back in the 1800’s. First by Joseph Smith who was jailed for many crimes including burning down a Chicago newspaper that wrote a bad article about him. Joe Smith claims to have been given the “Book of Mormon”by an Archangel
    and this is where they started to wander off the Christian road. Does this make them bad people? No, not at all. Many of us have been misinformed and led astray by something or someone in our lives, some like me a LOT of times! They have done a really good job in assimilating into the mainstream culture, occasionally one of their “fringe” groups causes them a lot of embarrassment and problems but those groups, Thankfully, are very few and dwindling.

  • Anja Smith

    hismin@xmission.com is an excellent site as to Mormonism.

  • Laie Techie

    Alan Beavers, you show ignorance in your comments. There is nothing in LdS theology or doctrine which would prevent a Black from being called to the highest positions. Some of our General Authorities already are Black. When a Black man is called to the Apostleship it won’t have anything to do with race.

  • Tomara Carter

    @Laie Techie. The LDS doctrine of today doesn’t prevent or discriminate against Blacks obtaining the priesthood,. Do a little more research…it’s there. Matter of fact…here’s a start for you:
    “Now WE ARE GENEROUS WITH THE NEGRO. WE ARE WILLING that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I WOULD BE WILLING to LET every Negro DRIVE A CADILLAC IF THEY COULD AFFORD IT. I WOULD BE WILLING that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. BUT LET THEM ENJOY THESE THINGS AMONG THEMSELVES.” LDS “Apostle” Mark E. Petersen
    “THE NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, …but this inequality is not of man’s origin. IT IS THE LORD’S DOING, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the LACK OF SPIRITUAL VALIANCE OF THOSE CONCERNED IN THEIR FIRST ESTATE [the Mormon pre-existence].” LDS “Apostle” Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527 – 528, 1966 edition
    “…[T]hrough their INDIFFERENCE or LACK OF INTEGRITY TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, [blacks] rendered themselves UNWORTHY of the Priesthood and its powers….” LDS “Historian” B. H. Roberts, The Contributor, vol. 6, pp. 296-297
    “You see some classes of the human family that are BLACK, UNCOUTH, UNCOMELY, DISAGREEABLE and LOW in their habits, WILD, and seemingly DEPRIVED OF NEARLY ALL THE BLESSINGS OF THE INTELLIGENCE that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been KILLED, and THAT WOULD HAVE PUT A TERMINATION TO THAT LINE OF HUMAN BEINGS. This was not to be, and the Lord put A MARK upon him, which is THE FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race — that they should be the “servants of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree.” LDS “Prophet” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 290, 1859

  • Jazene

    For this to be a Christian web site and after reading some of the comments written by you people I find that their are not too many Christians who read this. If it were you would all realize that it is not the “Mormans” that are disliked but their beliefs. If you all read the bible than you would know that homosexuality is wrong in GOD’s eyes. This has nothing to do with the Morman religion again it falls to what they teach and what they believe in. That is just another one of the things that you people are saying and tying in with this religion which is probably why bible beliving Christians do not agree with the Morman religion. I know Morman people and yes they are a giving people but if they believe and teach hoomsexuality then they are teaching wrong period.

  • JL Fuller

    I am amazed at how much misinformation is passed on as truth from non-Mormon, but otherwise religious people, when it comes to Mormon theology and history. May I suggest the best place, in fact the only places, to learn about LDS theology is from Mormon sources. There are several excellent places to go on the web. I suggest http://www.LDS.org, http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/, http://www.fairlds.org/ are three. I think you will find Mormons are very open and willing to discuss just about everything.

  • JL Fuller

    What makes Mormons so different from other Christians? First off we are not Trinitarians. That alone sets the stage for some serious disagreement. Next, LDS theology says the bible is but one of four accepted canonized sources for God’s word. Next, we believe God has once again called prophets and apostles and speaks to his children through them just as in ancient times. That means the holy record is not closed. If these things do not raise the ire of some then our history does, namely plural marriage, an old testament practice that was briefly practiced by early Mormons. It was stopped in 1890 but several non-Mormon sects continue to practice it. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the official name of the church) does not.
    Maybe the most egregious thing todays Mormons do, according to some, is proselytize among other Christians and the general population. Among traditional Christians this is a no no and is called sheep stealing. In order to counter the high conversation rates, some traditional Churches and their pastors have taken to demonizing Mormons. Of course there are a lot of other reasons you will read about but I think these are the usual problems many traditional, historical or Creedal Christians have with us.

  • JL Fuller

    Blacks and the priesthood is one of those aspects of our history that has been troubling even for Mormons. The truth is, many of our church leaders recognized that fact early on but were prohibited from making worthy black men priesthood holders until 1979. The reason was never officially given. Many personal opinions were expressed by some leaders but they were just that – opinions, not doctrine. That is what you read above in Tomara Carter’s post. One other thing, the Journal of Discourses was not an official Church publication. The priesthood is available to all worthy males.

  • JL Fuller

    It may be hard for some people to accept but even LDS Church leaders are allowed personal opinions. However they are not official Church doctrine. Even the Brigham Young was entitled to his own views. One particular trait about Brigham was his use of hyperbole and when the two were combined certainly made for some interesting reading. I think that is where a lot of the misunderstanding about Brigham comes from.

  • JRiley

    Mormonism holds to a belief that Jesus was a created by God. This is totally offensive to the Christian belief affirmed in the 4th century that Jesus is begotten to created. This is not a question of liking a Mormon as a person, it is a case of disliking it is as a belief. I can like a friend or co-worker as a Mormon and totally disagree with his or her beliefs.
    One of the areas that is very frustrating about the Mormons is their evangelism that tells you in the beginning that they are just another group of Christians similar to the Baptists. Nothing could be further from the truth. They give away the KJV Bible to further confuse those who don’t know more about the Mormons.
    They also hide the fact that there are 3 levels of reward in Mormonism. The highest level is that you get your own planet and you and your spouse make spiritual babies and you are the “Jesus” or god of that planet.
    Bottom line, Mormons are different. I can like them and totally dislike their beliefs.

  • JRiley

    Typo above – Correction – Jesus is begotten Not created is the traditional Christian view

  • Melly

    The reason why I think a lot of people dislike Mormons, it’s because they put a lot more emphasis on the worship of Joseph Smith and not on Jesus Christ. They really should re name themselves as the Church of Joseph Smith..
    Another reason is all the odd “guidelines” they have that other religions do not. Such as wearing “modest” clothing. Even a tank top is considered inappropriate. Drinking caffine, dating before 16, going to see R rated movies, also their strict values for wifes to be caretakers and take care of the household.
    The last reason, I think is because the religion is barely 200 years old. Joseph Smith had a small group of followers in the late 1820s and it evolved from there. They though of him as a phophet because an angel had come to him with golden plates that had inscriptures contaning relgious history of ancient American peoples which is absurd because it would be the beliefs of American Indians he “translated”. America was barely a country then.
    If someone would have done that nowadays, we would lock him/her up in the looney bin and say they were a cult leader..

  • Melly

    @JL Fuller
    The reason why the church prohibited a black priesthood holder until 1979 is because the LDS church is prejudice. That should be obvious to anyone with a brain.
    Take a look at their church members..how many of them are light haired with light skin? Probably about 98% of them. Unless they’ve adopted children from other countries, they only fully accept their own kind and maybe that’s not all of them, but a lot of them are like that.

  • J L Fuller

    We worship God the Father through Jesus Christ, his Son and our Savior. It will take only a few moments to find out what we believe if you go to http://www.lds.org, and http://www.mormon.org. If you want to know more about some of the lesser known beliefs you can go to http://www.fairlds.org and http://www.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/ for more scholarly views.

  • Joel Riley

    Dear JL Fuller,
    It would be quite nice if you would be more truthful about your Mormon beliefs. Let others know up front that you ONLY see God the Father as existing for all eternity. You see Jesus as a created deity but not as the everlasting God of Scriptures. It is this lack of honesty that wins you converts but also adds to the dissension between true Christians and the Cult of Mormonism. Count me in on 1 who could have a friendship with a Mormon but would not vote for Mitt Romney based on his religious preference. Keep it real and truthful.

  • http://www.bookofmormonnotes.wordpress.com grego

    “Why do people hate Mormonism? Easy ~ too much hypocrisy in that religion.”
    Hmmm… Is there anything wrong with this picture?: “I believe in God, I believe God is love, perhaps I am Christian: I *hate* hypocrites.”
    -=
    “Joe Smith claims to have been given the “Book of Mormon”by an Archangel and this is where they started to wander off the Christian road.”
    I’m assuming you are Protestant or after, and mean the “Christian road” of “no more signs, no more visions, no more communication with God”? Because the Catholic Church–from which most every other Christian religion broke off of–has all kinds of “similar” things, too. (And where does the claim “Archangel” come from? the Mormons?)
    -=
    “Mormonism is considered a cult because it denies the essential, orthodox teachings of the Bible: The nature of God, Justification (saved by faith alone, through grace alone, in Christ alone), etc. Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Mormonism is also a polytheistic religion (belief in many gods), while Christianity is monotheistic (belief in one God). These simple facts alone separate Mormonism from orthodox Christianity forever!”
    What makes a teaching “essential”? For example, to the Baptists, isn’t (wasn’t) baptism essential for salvation?
    Who is the true orthodox Christian–the Catholic, or the believer in a religion that broke from the Catholic Church?
    Who is the true Christian who believes in the true Christ–the Baptist, the Methodist, the Lutheran, the Congregationalist, the Presbyterian, the Pentacostal, the …??
    Seriously!! If there weren’t any difference in their beliefs and in their Jesus, it seems there wouldn’t be any difference in their religions, and all these different Christian religions teaching different true truths about the true Jesus Christ that their different true church professes, right? How can all of those religions have the “true Jesus”?? Pretty impossible, right?
    It all sounds nice and good when there’s a “common enemy”/Mormons for all the Protestants and subgroups to come together to proclaim against, but… then what? Why don’t they all join together and form one church, you know, the one true church–with one faith, one doctrine, and one Jesus–the true ones? When that happens, at least the charge of “false Jesus” will at least be somewhat believable or understandable to me.
    As a fun addition to think about: Do you and your mother know your same dad? You two have the same viewpoint on everything about him, too?
    -=
    “Do not let anyone, including a Mormon tell you that they believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, they believe that He is an angel just as the Jehovah Witnesses do, now that’s ANOTHER strange group. All we need to know is that God sent His only Son to save us and love us, all else is but dirty rags.”
    So what does Jesus Christ being an angel have to do with Mormons?? Or you just couldn’t pass up the opportunity to get an extra shot off at ANOTHER strange group?
    Did God send “His only Son to save [Mormons] and love [Mormons]” too, or are Mormons included in that “dirty rags” part?
    -=
    “For one thing they prejudice against the black people in their church, meaning they can’t hold any major office.”
    “Take a look at their church members..how many of them are light haired with light skin? Probably about 98% of them.”
    What about Africa, Brazil, Haiti, Jamaica, and plenty of other places where most of the members and most of the leaders are black? That’s where it’s easiest to see. (How about all over the USA? Been to LDS services in Harlem lately? Bronx? LA?) How about Asia, India, South America, where most of the members and leaders aren’t “light haired with light skin”?
    But really, but what does that really have to do with it? If you say “blacks and the priesthood before”, cool. But that’s not even been mentioned by either. Guess what? Those Southern Baptists by me are mostly darker-skinned. Does that mean they are prejudiced, or discriminate, or that that church is wrong?
    -=
    “Any “religion” that can trace its roots to one human (Smith) (Jones), etc. is a CULT.”
    Well Stan, what about Martin Luther? I guess that takes care of about every church (whoops, I mean “cult”) other than the Catholic Church… What about Peter? I guess that takes care of the Catholic Church (I mean “cult”). What about…? If it’s a group of humans, then, does it make it “not a cult”? Is that really what a cult is?
    -=
    “If you have ever been to Salt Lake City or Bountiful, Utah, you will find the people are weird in the sense that they all appear to be fake in their dialog and appearance.”
    Like, do they all wear “mission impossible” masks and say the same words in a monotonous voice, like robots or something? Please!
    -=
    “Their belief that they will all be “gods” someday separated me from them quickly and completely. They are rich and appear to be friendly, but when you see what goes on within their religious circles, it will send a shiver up your spine.”
    Such as?
    -=
    Of course there’s misunderstanding (I could go on and on, but I’ve already written way to much for most people…). And of course, Mormons are people and have problems (all–not some, or just a few), just like everyone else.
    The comments on this post show the difference between comments that are insightful and contributing (such as Kedric’s, Shala’s, Rosemarie’s, etc.), even if disagreeable, dissenting, or even what I would consider not really on about Mormonism (I’m sure I am that way with other religions); and others that I wish were more insightful and contributing.
    Wouldn’t it be nice if all of our opinions were formed after careful observation, multiple personal experiences, and learning? Before going to France, I had a few personal experiences with French, and heard a lot of negative things, and even had a few negative personal observations. (Besides, I mean gosh, you just know that anyone who speaks *that* nasally has got to be bad!) Then I met a few more French at university. Then a few years later I went to Paris for about a week, and… wow, they were people! A few weren’t nice, but the majority *were*. (I even had my videocamera returned to me a few times when I had forgotten it.) I guess there was nothing to do but change my opinion after that.

  • J L Fuller

    Joel Riley
    Please take some time and do your home work. Go to http://www.LDS.org or http://www.fairlds.org or one of the other legitimate web sites operated by the Church or one of its organs.
    If I wanted to know about your faith I would go to you or your religious advisor first. I would give scant weight to rumors, misinformation and deliberate disinformation campaigns of others.
    The first thing I suggest you do is find out why LDS theology seems to change over time. That seems to be a sticking point among many detractors. I will give you a hint: it has to do with God re-opening the canon and talking to his children again through prophets and apostles. One more hint: We receive what we can absorb and use. Another: there is no end to God’s words.
    I would be more than happy to explain it all to you but if continue to think we are lying would I not be wasting my time?

  • TheTruth

    Why are Mormons ”hated”?
    Don’t know that they are ‘hated’ as the article says. But it is true that many distrust Mormons for their hypocrisy and right wing extremism. Here are people who are terribly holier-than-thou and who imagine themselves better than everybody else. Yet, no people in this country use more pornography than they do. Moreover, instead of loving others, they keep their doors closed to all other people who do not subscribe to their cultism. Catholics, Protestants, Jews, all other people allow others into their religious houses of worship. Only Mormons fail to do so even though there is no such instruction to do this in the Bible. Then, while claiming to love Jesus (the Prince of Peace) these Mormons promote a love of war and militarism. Such hypocrisy is laughable, not respectable.

  • johnathan

    I find the hypocrisy of Christian critics of Mormonism laughable. The origins of Christianity are as suspect as the origins of Mormonism, Islam or any other religion. Christianity is a fusion of Jewish myth and mystery religions of the early first century of the Common Era. there is not one shred of credible evidence Jesus or his apostles ever existed outside of the bible, written almost 70 years after the supposed life of Christ. The Christ of the bible is an obvious recasting of the reborn god myths prevalent around Syria at the time Paul was evangelizing.
    Not all Mormons are right wing politically look toward Senator Harry Reid,Jim Matheson, Congressman, Democrat, Utah and Tom Udall, Congressman, Democrat, New Mexico. Anyone who votes based on religious affiliation is a small minded bigot and should not even enjoy the right to vote. The Evangelical community in the U.S. is one of the most racist, anti-semitic bigoted demographic groups in the country.

  • Scott

    I used to be Mormon. I can see why they are hated. It really is a mix of arrogance (exclusive temples, exclusive access to heaven, “only true church,” “living prophets” who don’t say anything new, etc.) combined with hypocrisy (racism against blacks, practicing homosexuals are sinners since it is a choice, most money/resources spent on members rather than given to poor (church numbers indicate less than 1% is given to poor), members/church are wealthy, lying/spinning about about its history to others, pornography, sexism, etc.) along with ignorance (Book of Abraham is a fraud, Joseph Smith/Brigham Young/other prophets led members/church astray numerous times, false prophecies, Book of Mormon plagiarism from *KJV* Bible, coffee is bad, tea is bad, wheat is good, Mason-derived temple ceremony, numerous continuing temple changes, etc.)

  • Sallie Taylor.

    As a 65 year old woman I see people of all denominations using false allegations against oneanother why? This is a very depressing curse on humanity.If we go into depth all religion teaches the same thing i.e love, compassion and brotherhood.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Susan

    @Sallie Taylor: You cut to the chase. “If we go into depth all religion teaches the same thing i.e. love, compassion and brotherhood.” This may be true but, sadly, as evidenced by comments on here, many “believers” seem to have no compunction about not adhering to these most important principles. I’m glad there are some, like yourself, who obviously hold them dear.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Vanka

    Mormons are hated for the same reasons Mitt Romney’s or Jon Huntsman’s Mormonism is problematic. Mormonism is fundamentally imperialistic and fascist (in other words, it is a “cult”).

    First, Mormonism has very recently, and on several occasions, demonstrated that the LDS Church leaders will not hesitate to defy their own scripture (the claimed “word of God” in these last days) and “mingle religious influence with civil government” to coerce others to abide by LDS beliefs and policies. This is a direct violation of Section 134:9 which reads:

    “It is NOT JUST for religions to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied”

    Despite this, the LDS Church President (First Presidency) issued a statement that was read from the pulpit in every one of the 28,660 Mormon congregations, telling every Mormon to “do all in your power” to deprive same-sex couples of their equal right to marriage. This resulted in an outpouring of support for Proposition 8 in California, which turned that initiative completely around so it passed. The Mormons did the same thing in many other states, at the “command” of their leader, whom they consider to be “the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys” and to speak for God. In Utah, the Mormon leaders mingled their religious influence with civil government to override the majority will of the people on immigration law, and they constantly mingle their influence with the government of the State of Utah.

    Second, as I have already shown, Mormons who are “Temple worthy” make secret oaths of obedience and loyalty to the Mormon leaders. They “covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the [Mormon Church]“, and they “consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you [including positions of power and authority such as POTUS], to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.”

    Furthermore, these secret oaths are made in conjunction with symbolic death penalties that, although they have had the graphic throat-slashing gestures removed since the 1990’s, retain their symbolic meaning and significance, putting those who attend Mormon temples “under penalty of death” regarding these oaths.

    Taken together with the imperialist doctrines of the Mormon Church, whereby they have “prophesied” and believe that they will “put an end to all nations” and usher in the second coming of Jesus Christ, who will rule and reign a thousand years (the Millennium), and that each temple-worthy Mormon is “anointed” to become “…a king and a priest unto the Most High God hereafter to rule and reign in the House of Israel forever” — there is good reason to be concerned about a Mormon in the White House.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment agnes

    To have a temple recommend (to be a really good Mormon) requires that you answer this question in the negative:

    “Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?”

    Mormons can’t be anything but cruel to non- or former mormons or they can’t be real mormons. I don’t know why this isn’t more widely known. This is why people who left the church end up hurting so badly, because their families and former friends — poof! — are gone. As friends and confidants.

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  • http://www.bridgingtruth.com Previously blindly-obedient “elite” LDS ~ Kay Dee

    The controlling Mormon Church “cult” is hated inside and especially outside of Utah. Their fruits expose them. This is so sad. They spend $4 Billion on a Mall rather than help the poor except for PR purposes.

    The American hatred for the Mormons will increase the more the LDS impose themselves via PR ad nauseum on the internet and other media.

    The demise and downfall of this church will continue (less than 2 million pay their full tithing) until the leader’s are forced to come clean and tell the truth regarding the church’s history and beliefs in polygamy/sexual and spiritual abuse of women and children, satanic Masonry, Blood Atonement, altering the Book of Mormon (as prophesied), and the LDS church leader’s own involvement in theft of wealthy member’s assets (as Bank Board members, etc.) and even continued “accidental” deaths for coverup.

    The slitting of the throat “penalty” used in all LDS Temple ceremonies prior to 1990 is still “assumed” even today and reflects the control the leaders have over all temple-going members.

    No sane and knowledgeable person would ever vote for a Mormon for President until the church cleans up its act, admits the truth of their history and “abominable” beliefs, and is full-disclosure on their financials and illegal dealings.

    I have great respect for the original Book of Mormon, a simple history of “the other sheep” that Christ taught (John 10:16), but it was altered in 1837 as prophesied (1st Nephi 13)with over 3,000 significant changes with the 2nd printing…

  • http://www.originialbookofmormonrestored.com Previously blindly-obedient “elite” LDS ~ Kay Dee

    Please read Vanka’s profound remarks ~ seen two posts above mine. Excellent!

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Gemma Grover

    I grew up in Utah, I’ve been a Mormon all my life, I attend BYU in Utah, and I hate being stereotyped. Growing up,I’ve always had friends of different faiths, gender orientations, and lifestyles. Alcoholics, Marijuana users, bisexuals, you name it… And I will never revile the people they choose to be.
    I think the world hates blockhead Mormons who refuse to venture out of their religious comfort zones, but they are the minority. Most Mormons are very open-minded, in fact, most of my professors are Democrats (gasp). I do not condemn any other religion and find beauty in each one.
    I don’t see people bashing Muslims and Jews, why do people think it right to put down my religion? I will never criticize a belief, whether it be Atheism or Buddhism and will not tolerate this crap.
    I can understand why you would think our practices are weird, even we as Mormons have difficulty grasping everything, but they are personal and should not be debated and attacked.
    My wish is not to offend anyone, I just cannot read these comments without defending my religion, something I believe in with my whole heart.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment John Kennington

    Mormons are idiots. They pretend they are not a cult and they are. If you research and look in to their temple ceremonies you will see that they do strange rituals and gruesome promises of killing. They have a good PR becuase they realize that they have to not let it out what they are really like in the religion. Thye teach that the Catholic church’s leader the Pope i sthe anti Christ, that all other epople are going to Hell if they don’t become a MOrmon. They wear strangeclothes, ostracise and coerce through isolation anyone who does not fall into line. I was raised Mormon- believe me I know. They try to pretend all the time that they are a normal religion, but they are not doing the things they do inside the church. They are nort mainstream like Catholic or Baptist- they are a cult. I have been to the temple – it is weird and wrong so I left.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment JR

    I Think that what is misleading in this article is the fact that a group of strong Christians maintain their beliefs as the Bible says and all the others can’t stand it because they have moved away from what the bible has been teaching for hundreds of years. Communications is the biggest problem, because on average, when asked most people don’t even know a Mormon, have ever talked to one and wouldn’t know one walking down the street. The belief is strong because they adhere to the truth of the Bible’s teaching, have very strong family values, and are people you can count on in a time of crisis, try finding that in any other religion, good luck. People are naturally jealous of good when they aren’t.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment RJN

    Iam a very proud Mormon. it has completely changed my life and it is the best atmosphere for my family especially my two young sons. People frown upon paying ten percent of their wages toward tithing and have trouble with the word of wisdom. One of the reasons we pay tithing is to keep our wards,temples and other facilities beautiful. As for the words of wisdom our Heavenly Father wants us to take care of our selves and steer clear from things that harm us ! Lastly I want my children to be able to have the gift of repentance if they do something wrong. instead of being trapped in a confession booth with a priest or minister. AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IN THERE !!!! The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is the only true church on Earth

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Eric

    Why? Because the idea that they love the others just isn’t true. I sat through Mormon sacrament meetings as a child. And almost every meeting there were a couple people talking condescendingly about those outside the church and “of the world”. How can you like people who act like this? (Say one thing to your face… and another behind your back) I don’t have any respect for Mormons because they so willingly trash on the world constantly as if they are somehow any better.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment kev0001000

    It’s funny how some people don’t even know a Mormon, don’t know what their religion teaches, yet still have a strong opinion on their religion. This article spews bias as if the author did some kind of study, but instead gave nothing but his own opinions. @ Eric. Dude, just because you sat through sacrament and heard some people talking crap that does not mean that you can label the whole church as a big organization of hate. You can say what you want but that was petty and childish. I grew up in a ward (mormon church meeting house) where they taught false doctrine, talked crap about others, and even made racist comments. I knew the difference between what we teach and what some choose to teach. After having attended different wards who would teach the right thing I could tell that if some one were to visit my old ward they wouldn’t recognize it as an LDS church. That kind of thing happens. Because people have a little thing called free agency.

  • http://theyhavedeclaredwar robert

    I was not thrilled with mormons before obviously as i put a Tax the mormon church sticker on my car two days ago in regards to their financing against prop 8. Two days after this sticker my car which is brand new has been vandalized keyed and kicked in…caught on tape with a white male in his thirties with a wife and three kids in tow….not very christian which is typical of mormons…but now they have declared war on me personally and i plan to respond in kind…robert

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Michael

    Really? Are the Mormons Jews? Oh, I see. Now, I understand. Well, it is pretty ironic. Funny.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Joseph Calloway

    don’t be cruel love jesus and god i’m mormon

  • http://NoMormonInWhiteHouse.blogspot.com timothy unrine

    Maybe Mormons wouldn’t be SO HATED if;

    Mormons didn’t steal the good name of Jesus Christ and put in on a Non-Christian cult.

    Mormons wouldn’t claim to be Christians, when theologically, they are not.

    finally – when you tell EVERYONE their church is WRONG – – you ruffle feathers.

    But good luck finding those golden plates.

  • http://www.exmormon.org/ Jim

    Mormonism would be fine, except for the fact that it has been pretty much proven false. Scientists overwhelmingly agree that american indians came from siberia 35000 to 12000 years ago. A reasonable reading of the BOM says that indians came to america much more recently and should had hebrew ancestors.

    In addition to NO archaeological evidence ever having been found supporting the BOM, that book mentions elephants at the time of christ. Sorry, there were none. Read the smithsonian and National geographic statements on the book of mormon.

    Joseph Smith was known as a con artist. Google glass-looker “joseph smith” for proof. Only three unreliable witnesses saw the gold plates. He failed miserably in the kinderhook plate matter and the book of abraham, proved by egyptologists to be common funeral texts. How much more proof do we need that it’s a fraud?

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Melvin

    Please unsubscribe me from your network,to. Thank you.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Aryan blood

    Well, what I do know what does not change me. I know I am better than Mormons, Americans, and any other race. Whether you like it or not. I am the better, because I am pale, brown eyes and dark blond hair and medium height. It does not change of who I am. If Mormons has been taxed. Because God has punished them. God is love. God is punishment. If you break the Lord’s covenants, the Lord breaks with you, also. The Mormon church is not the true church anymore. They have lost the title.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Unforgiven

    I hate all religions but Mormonism is definitely at or near the top of the list. Why would I respect anyone for believing I’m cursed for having dark skin? And don’t trot out this BS about it not being church doctrine because, even assuming that’s true, their “church” is still powerless to stop a lot of their members from believing it– either way, it definitely doesn’t speak well for their cult.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Nobody

    Mormons are hated because they are one of the most hateful groups in America. They may claim to like everyone, but having grown up Mormon in Utah I know the truth. Mormons hate:

    Non-Mormons
    Blacks
    Hispanics
    Asians
    Gays
    Californians
    New Yorkers
    Liberals
    Poor people
    Catholics
    Baptists
    Buddhists

    Just to name a few. This is not implicit, by the way. These are groups that you’ll hear Mormons explicitly and regularly casting aspersions upon in everyday life in Utah.

    And despite what Mormons say (What? We love everybody, they all just hate us!) the rest of the nation and much of the world gets it. Mormons hate us, want to interfere in our lives (see Prop. 8 for example), and accuse us of being prejudiced against Mormons when we push back against the influence.

    More to the point, most of America also knows that they’re simply not welcome in Mormonism without giving up the basics of who they are. Mormonism is a monoculture of Nth-generation white Europeans with the most politically conservative positions in the nation. Deviate from this at all (say, be African-American, or decide that you don’t want to have kids, or vote Democratic) and the Mormons don’t want (and will actively accuse) you anyway.

    People get it. It’s that simple. It’s not about building bridges, it’s about what Mormonism is. People aren’t stupid; they’re quite astute in fact.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Dennis Thompson

    The founding Fathers of Mormons hated Christianity. Mormons seem to like to now claim they are somehow Christians. However the Christian God was never a man, nor was the Christian Jesus created like the Mormon one was. Joseph Smith was one of the most vile frauds to ever live in America. The truth should matter, and if Mormons knew the truth about Smith, Mormonism would not exist.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Dennis Thompson

    Joseph Smith Denied He Was A Polygamist!
    Joseph Smith publicly denied all his life that he was ever a polygamist. Yet, he had 33 wives, including his own foster daughters, the Lawrence sisters, aged 14 and 16. Joseph Smith was also “married” to women who were already married and living with other men at the time, men who apparently did not know their wives were married to Joseph Smith. In May of 1844 he declared:

    “What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.” (History of the Church 6:411)
    At that time, Joseph Smith had at least thirty “wives”. He only provided for three of them (his public wife Emma and his two foster-daughters who lived with him). The other women were either very young girls still living at home, or they were the wives of other men living with those men.
    Here are more denials, from the pens of Joseph Smith, while he was “married” to many different women:

    History of the Church, vol. 2, pg. 247 (August 1835)
    “The clerk of every church should keep a record of all marriages solemnized in his branch. All legal contracts of marriage made before a person is baptized into this Church should be held sacred and fulfilled. Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again.”
    Messenger and Advocate (Aug 1835) pg. 163
    “All legal contracts of marriage made before a person is baptized into this church should be held sacred and fulflled. Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife: one woman, but one husband, except in teh case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again.”

    History of the Church, vol. 5, pg. 30 (May 1836)
    “Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man, should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in case of death,, when either is at liberty to marry again.”

    Messenger and Advocate (May 1837), pg. 511:
    “1st. That we will have no fellowship whatever with any Elder belonging to the quorums of the Seventies who is guilty of polygamy or any offense of the kind, and who does not in all things conform to the laws of the church contained in the Bible and in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants.”

    Times and Seasons, vol. 4, pg. 939 (October 1, 1842)
    “All legal contracts of marriage made before a person is baptized into this church, should be held sacred and fulfilled. Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again. It is not right to persuade a woman to be baptized contrary to the will of her husband neither is it lawful to influence her to leave her husband.”

    Times and Seasons, vol. 4, pg. 28 (December 1, 1842)
    “He spoke of the various publications of Bennett and others, and of the prejudices which they had necessarily excited-that the Mormons were charged with sanctioning a community of wives and of goods, with polygamy, and various other enormities, not one word of which is true.”

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Dennis Thompson

    More unbelievable stuff and its sad people get hoodwinked and lied to:

    DNA and The Book of Mormon
    The Book of Mormon claims that the “Lamanites (lay-man-ites), the American Indians, are the descendants of Lehi (lee-high), a Jew. Yet, DNA studies of American Indian tribes reveal they had not one Semitic “gene” in their DNA, no Semitic ancestry whatsoever. The American Indians are Asians, like the Chinese. They have “mongolian folds” in their eyelids as other Asians. They have a “Mongonlian dot” on their tailbones like other Asians. Their hair, languages, skin, eyes, culture, religion, and DNA are all Asian, with NO SEMITIC GENES whatsoever!! They are closely related to the Tuvan people of Siberia. The Book of Mormon teaches that “Lamanites” (i.e. American Indians) have dark skin because God “cursed their skin with darkness” so that the white-skinned Nephites (nee-fights) would not intermarry with them.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Dennis Thompson

    and more:

    Archaeology and The Book of Mormon
    There is no archaeological evidence for The Book of Mormon. The book says that the Nephites had horses, sheep, goats, oxen, asses, but there is no evidence that oxen, sheep or asses (donkies) existed in the New World before Columbus. Horses in America were too small to ride, and went extinct about 10,000 years ago, long before Book of Mormon times. Not one pot-sherd of “Nephite” civilization has ever been unearthed. NothingZ.

    Had the Nephites existed for 1000 years in America, in the millions, they would have tens of millions of oxen, goats, asses, and sheep over this time period. Yet, in The Book of Mormon is true, one must believe that all these animals went exinct in America before Columbus, and did not leave behind one bone or fragment.

    Some of the places mentioned in The Book of Mormon, such as Angola, Kishkumen, Oneida, Morin, Alma, Ramah, Jacobugath (Jacobsburg), were names of villages that existed in the time of Joseph Smith, but not in ancient America when the Nephites allegedly existed.

    Mormonism began with the “Angel Moroni” who hid the Gold Plates in the “Hill Cumorah”. Coincidentally, “Moroni” is the capital of the “Comoro Islands” off the coast of East Africa. In the 19th century, when The Book of Mormon was produced, the Comoro Islands were called the Camore (pronounced “Cumorah”) Islands

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Dennis Thompson

    How about the cover up of Racism in Mormonism?

    The Curse of Cain Doctrine and Cover-Up
    There have been black Mormons since 1832, although very few of them until after 1978. There is no evidence that Joseph Smith was racist. He allowed black Elders (as long as they were free men), and invited blacks to worship in the Nauvoo Mormon Temple.

    But that would change with Brigham Young.

    From 1848 until 1978, “Negroes” were banned from all Mormon Temples and the Mormon priesthood (which every Mormon male must hold to get to the Celestial Kingdom). Mormon prophets during this time taught that “Negroes” were the inferior and “cursed” children of Cain, and the “mark of Cain” was a black skin, flat nose, and kinky hair. Here are just a few quotes from Mormon Church leaders (there are hundreds of quotes):

    Oliver Cowdery, Second Elder, co-founder of the Mormon Church:

    “Let the blacks of the south be free, and our community is overrun with paupers, and a reckless mass of human beings, uncultivated, untaught and unaccustomed to provide for themselves the necessaries of life-endangering the chastity of every female who might by chance be found in our streets-our prisons filled with convicts, and the hang-man wearied with executing the functions of his office!” (Messenger and Advocate, Sept. 11, 1833)
    Brigham Young second President and Prophet:
    “You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. . . . Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which was the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another cursed is pronounced upon the same race–that they should be the “servants of servants;” and they will be until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree (Journal of Discourses, 7:290; emphasis added)
    “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be.” (Journal of Discourses, 10:110; emphasis added)

    “I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of man, that they may not call Scripture.” (Journal of Discourses, 13:95).

    John Taylor, third President and Prophet:
    “After the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham’s wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God. . . .” (ibid., 23:304; emphasis added).
    “When he [Satan] destroyed the inhabitants of the antediluvian worlds, he suffered a descendant of Cain to come through the flood in order that he might be properly represented upon the earth.” (Journal of Discourses, 23:336; emphasis added)

    Wilford Woodruff, who became the fourth President and Prophet of the LDS Church:
    “What was that mark? It was a mark of blackness. That mark rested upon Cain, and descended upon his posterity from that time until the present. To day there are millions of the descendants of Cain, through the lineage of Ham, in the world, and that mark of darkness still rest upon them.”(Millennial Star, 51:339; emphasis added).
    George Reynolds (Apostle):

    “We will first inquire into the results of the approbation or displeasure of God upon a people, starting with the belief that a black skin is a mark of the curse of Heaven placed upon some portions of mankind. . . . We understand that when God made man in his own image and pronounced him very good, that he made him white. We have no record of any of God’s favored servants being of a black race. . . . When God cursed Cain for murdering his brother Abel, He set a mark upon him that all meeting him might know him. . . . After the flood this curse fell upon the seed of Shem, through the sin of their father, and his descendants bear it to this day. . . . We are told in the Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price, that Egypt was discovered by a woman, who was a daughter of Ham, the son of Noah. . . . The pure Negro, as represented by the people of Guinea and its neighboring countries, is generally regarded as the unmixed descendant of Ham. . . . Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, their intelligence stunted, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism (Juvenile Instructor, October 15, 1868, p. 157).
    George F. Richards (Apostle):
    “The Negro is an unfortunate man. He has been given a black skin. But that is as nothing compared with that greater handicap that he is not permitted to receive the Priesthood and the ordinances of the temple, necessary to prepare men and women to enter into and enjoy a fullness of glory in the celestial kingdom [i.e., godhood].” (Conference Report, April 1939, p. 58)
    Joseph Fielding Smith (10th President of the Mormon Church):
    “Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. A curse was place upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain. Moreover, they have been made to feel their inferiority and have been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning… we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our Negro brethren, for they are our brethren–children of God—notwithstanding their black covering emblematical of eternal darkness.” (The Way to Perfection, 101-02; emphasis added).
    “There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages… The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:61, 66; emphasis added)

    Bruce R. McConkie (Mormon Apostle):

    “In a broad general sense, caste systems have their root and origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper and have the approval of the Lord. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the whole Negro race have been cursed with a black skin, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a caste apart, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not intermarry. (Gen. 4; Moses 5.)” (Mormon Doctrine, p.114)
    “Though he was rebel and an associate of Lucifer in pre-existence, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdition, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those sprits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born though his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan.” (Mormon Doctrine, p.104)

    “Through Ham (a name meaning black) the blood of the Canaanites was preserved through the flood, he having married Egyptus, a descendent of Cain. Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.” (Mormon Doctrine, p.343)

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Dennis Thompson

    The 1891 Prophecies of Joseph Smith
    Joseph Smith prophesied “in the name of the Lord and let it be written” that Christ would return in 1891. He prophesied this on two separate occassions. In February of 1835, Joseph Smith addressed a group of Mormon elders who were going to march to Jackson County, Mission (Zion) to defend other Mormons from Missour mobs:

    “President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. He then gave a revelation of some of the circumstances attending us while journeying to Zion…our trial, sufferings; and said God had not designed all this for nothing, but He had it in remembrance yet; and it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was nigh—even fifty-six years would wind up the scene.” History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 182.
    Add 1835 to 56 and one gets 1891.
    In Volume 7 (the Index) of the Documentary History of the Church, published by the Church, under “Second Coming” one reads this:

    “Joseph said would be in 56 years V2:182″
    On April 6th, 1843, Joseph Smith wrote:
    “I was once praying earnestly upon the subject, and a voice said unto me, My son, if thou livest till thou art 85 years of age, thou shalt see the Face of the Son of Man–I was left to draw my own conclusions concerning this & took the liberty to conclude that if I did live till that time He would make His appearance or I shall go where He is–I prophesy in the name of the Lord God–& let it be written, that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old, 48 years hence or about 1890.” (Diary of Joseph Smith, April 6, 1843, quoted in The Revelations of Joseph Smith, p.345)
    Add 1843 to 48 years and one comes to 1891.
    Some Mormon apologists call this “Not a prophecy at all, he was just giving an off-the-cuff remark!”

    Others say, “Well, Jesus WOULD have come if Joseph Smith lived to age 85, but since he didn’t, the Lord did not come. The prophecy was conditional”.

    But that doesn’t work. The prophecy did NOT say: “The Lord shall come IF you live to 85″. The prophecy said: “The Lord shall come in 48 years from now (1891), and if you (Joseph) live till then, you’ll see His face!”

    When confronted with this, Mormons reply, “Well, its NOT a false prophecy. It would have happened then, but we weren’t ready for it!” The Bible says that the sign of a false prophet is ONE prophecy that does not come to pass:

    “When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him” (Deuteronomy 18:22)

    Joseph Smith prophesied, twice, that Christ would return in 1891. What happened?
    How many UNfulfilled prophecies can a “true” prophet give? The Bible says: NONE!

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Michael

    Beware of false prophets, who comes as sheep behind are wolves. Hear this, he who has ears, let him hear, he who has eyes, let him see. It is written by the Paul the Prophet: if any angel or any man comes to you preaching a different gospel and another Christ, let him be an anathema. if any man receives him, receive his their sins and are partakers of them. He who worships the beast, will drink the bitter cup of the great indignation of the Lord. If any man hates the Lord Jesus, cursed is he.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Michael

    Remember that the Antichrist will sit in the throne of the temple as though he is God, but the time shall come that the Lord will come from heaven and destroy him by the breath of his mouth and by the light of his Presence will annihilate the Antichrist who exalted above God and against God, whom the man of sin shall be revealed comes from the Mormon Church.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Michael

    I am angry just because I paid money to them. I have wasted and they have stolen my tithing money. I have trusted them so much.

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  • http://MormonsarejustgenderconfusedMasons.... Polander

    And I deem them the gender identity problems that the Muslims have nothing to do with.

    Clearly, the agenda is reproduction at all costs…and only gender confused would where garments to protect their genitals..

    Really…

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment skyler blake

    okay i am a mormon.i am here to tell you we are not some freak people!we are christians just like alot of you.we love, and believe in god,and jesus christ.and we dont worship some statue or anything.if you dont know us please dont say lies based on what you heard.i mean alot of us go to friends who arent mormons church.its not like we hate everyone but mormons.well what im trying to say is WERE NORMAL!

  • http://www.tutoriaismetin2.com/index.php?action=mobiledisable Tutoriais Metin2

    I was suggested this blog by way of my cousin. I’m not sure whether this post is written by means of him as no one else understand such exact about my trouble. You’re amazing! Thanks!

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  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment mary

    My so married a mormon girl. After she had his baby she had what she wanted and decided he was too imperfect for her. She is the most smug, weird girl There were times I loved her but since she did not really know how to love like a mature woman-and always complained about our son who works so hard….I do not care if I ever see her again. Mormonism is a cult,strange folks who are automatons

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Serge Mullet

    How do Catholics have a shared ethnicity exactly?
    Plenty of Italians are Catholics, as are Irish. It’s big in Africa. Actually, World Youth Day was held in Sydney recently and pretty much every nation would have been represented in some way.
    Don’t get me wrong. I’m not a Catholic. If anything, Catholicism makes Atheism seem far more acceptable. What a bunch of made up fairy-stories and claptrap they have invented to fool the masses. Something that I’m sure that this website would be more than familiar with.
    Amazing that Buddhism is disliked so much. Probably because it is a religion that teaches peace, compassion and understanding, which goes strongly against the philosophy of shoot/invade first, ask questions later.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Judy

    Mormonism is a cult. They are predatory. I am non-mormon, when my son became involved with a mormon girl, he, actually our whole family became yet more victims of this insidious group. Don’t fool yourself. It is NOT a religion, founded on great principles and ethics. It was founded by con men in the early 19th century, and it is still a con hidden by the trappings of religion. Read Richard Packham’s website or Mormonthink.

    Wake up America

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Donna

    And after the Jodi Arias trial you are hated by even MORE people as hypocritical, evil, little organized hate mongers. You are a pathetic cult.

  • http://mormonsarecrooksandliers fredrico

    the Mormon church is the most corrupt evil organization in the world..they are full of sex prediters that rape and molest kids..the bishops are the worst..they call wemen in for interviews then rape them and then tell them the lord told them to do it

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Mahonri Young

    Why do people dislike Mormons? Their core belief that they, and ONLY they – have all the truth. You will have to pass by Joseph Smith to get into one of the degrees of heaven. Their smug attitude of telling all others they are wrong but Mormonism is right is not a good one.

    If you want Mormon practice on homosexuality to change – hit them in the pocketbook. That did it for polygamy: they changed rather than lose property and money.
    It worked for Blacks and the moronicPriesthood baloney – BYU boycotts of football and basketball games and US threats of losing tax exempt status and Wham-O, now all the ‘dark and loathesome’ negroes can have the moronicPriesthood just like their ‘white and delightsome’ chosen brethren.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment TLR

    The people who hate us are not concerned with our stance on gay marriage. If you want to see homosexuals get hitched, go join the Community of Christ.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment TLR

    and to the butthole commenting above, all religious groups make truth claims. There is nothing unique about Mormonism in this department. Your COEXIST bumper sticker nonsense makes truth claims as well. “There is a wider truth that all religions tap into, the specifics are redundant.” That’s a fine belief, but it bills itself as the only truth.

  • http://AddaURLtothiscomment Tina

    You are mistaken about Mormons liking everyone else. I lived in SLC for for years. They do not like most people. They are fake. I met more closeted porn freaks, closeted gays, and prescription drug abusers than anywhere else I have travelled.

  • http://WhyCan'tWeAllAcceptEachOtherAndMoveOn? fj

    You have to realize that mormon members are still people. We are not perfect. We make mistakes. Many mormons are not great people. Many mormons are good people. Many non mormons are not great people. Many non mormons are good people. Because they are people. Not gods. Yes, some mormons don’t follow the teachings like they should. But many do. All mankind has free agency. Many comments above claim that they know exactly what happens in a temple or in a church building. But have they ever been inside? Most people up there have such bad views and beliefs on mormons, yet don’t know what we believe in. Don’t know what we practice. Don’t know what we teach. Don’t all religions believe their church is the true church? Not everyone is bad because they are mormon. Not everyone is bad because they aren’t mormon. I also fail to see how a judgement on a few select people equals all members must be like the few they met.

  • http://WhyCan'tWeAllAcceptEachOtherAndMoveOn? fj

    I’d also like some reasons that are actually probable and realistic if you’re going to call LDS a cult. Christianity is not one religion. It has denominations.Judaism has denominations. Hinduism has denominations. And just for the record men are not better than women in the church. Each gender has their own role and their own part to play. Each has things that they can provide. Whether the man works or the woman works isn’t set in stone. Whatever is best for the family is what needs to happen. And if you really want to have something to argue about, maybe you should find out what mormons actually believe. I also fail to see mormons constantly changing their views. I have never seen racism towards anyone in my ward. I know mormons who can be racist, yes. Some are arrogant, yes. But haven’t you ever been arrogant? Haven’t you ever thought you were better? But like I said they are human and not perfect. I’ve seen non mormons be racisst too. Everyone has a secret to hide or things they are ashamed of. Like me. I’m ashamed of things I’ve done that were not Christlike. However I am also ashamed that so many people on here are good people, yet slander others and abuse beliefs. Our tithing does not go to waste. It helps families and people in our area who need it. I’m not trying to hate on anyone, but I felt that this needed to be said. So much of the stuff on here is rude and uncalled for. I am quite confused about how one man represents an entire group and belief. And now that I’ve had my spill, I’m done. I’m sorry if I offended any of you, but honestly this needed to be said.

  • http://tiffanylewis62@yahoo.com tiffanylewis

    I have a stalker from the mormon religion michelle arndt reid its been horrible

  • http://tiffanylewis62@yahoo.com tiffanylewis

    I sm born and rsised v catholic it is my only relgion I love gof but I hste the mormon rrligion I think it is a cult made up of a bunch of lazy pigs I would never join that rrligion

  • Enoughisenough

    I’ll tell you why they are hated. I’m a tolerant person and believe in minding my own business. We had a group of about 30 Mormon families “invade” our city from some alarm company. That’s fine, but how they all acted was unreal. This is the south so everyone is friendly, says hi, or at least smiles. No, not these people. You’ll hold the door open for one of them and they can’t even bother to say thank you. The most stuck up people I have ever encountered. Strike one. Now let’s talk about the kids, Dear Lord, ever heard of birth control? I get it, people have lots of kids, but what ticked off everyone around here is NOT ONE KID was ever supervised, EVER. We’re not talking 10 or 11 years olds, no, these are 2,3, and 4 year olds. Yes, toddlers for God’s sake. What parent does that? Strike two. Acting like the entire world revolves around them with zero consideration for anyone else. These people are the epitome of the rudest neighbors: loud, zero consideration for anyone else’s property, will be the first to gripe about others but act 10 times worse, think that laws and rules do not apply to them, etc. Strike three. And just one more question, do any of these people ever get an education? I understand not everyone has a college degree, but these people act like they didn’t even get beyond the 8th grade. They also are a bunch of scam artists with this alarm company. I have heard their sales pitch, and razzle-dazzle while overhearing their phone conversations (they take nothing in private) and their business practices are atrocious. I never had anything toward Mormons, but after encountering this group I want nothing to do with this bunch. I completely understand now why they are so hated. I’m pretty much there myself.

  • Enough, Enougisenough

    Enoughisenough, I would say your observations have more to do with a group of salespeople more than a group of Mormons (except for perhaps the young children–big families around other big families tend to let their children be a little freer because they look at the group as more of a collective, watching out for each other–though it can bother me as well).

    Personally, I regard condemning millions of people based on some observations of one group of people who are a bit unique because of their reasons for being there a bit simple-minded for an educated person. Also consider cultural variations–the South is a different place and is mocked by non-southerners just like you are mocking non-southerners. We could all benefit by being a bit more hospitable, but if a bunch of families from the North East invaded your town, would you blame their alleged rudeness on their respective religions, or on regional cultural differences? I want to give you the benefit of the doubt that you saw at least some of what you think you saw, and you probably did, but I’ve been around enough to know that people in general fall into too many traps of confirmation bias and attribution bias, myself included (which I’m actively working to counter, constantly–I hope you are too). The world would be a much better place if we would see it for what it is and get rid of these biases.

  • John Haake

    Why 3rd place, you ask??? Indeed, why not 2nd?? I know they are just too small and insignificant to be a 1st place contender. “Mormons like everyone else.” haha this comment took me back to my missionary days and the “jokes” my companions (multiple) and I use to share at the expense of the “unworthy heathens” surrounding us. “I’m a Mormon” PR campaign — yeah, like extremely tattooed women and an adult skateboarding man who wears RED THONG underwear would fit into any congregation of Mormonism you are familiar with — PR is right.

  • Jon G

    Mormons have to be the largest most hated group in the world today. It makes sense. They majority of the population hated Christ when he ministered on the earth, so of course they’re going to hate Mormons.

  • Mormon in Utah

    But we are superior!!!

    • O. Locke

      the mormon-cult is superior in that it has a tax exempt status.

      apparently god needs tax subsidies in order to thrive.

      • JMW

        Tithing helps move the Lord’s truths forward, and he blesses you for it! Do not mock God, for in the great and terrible last day, you will be smitten if you have not repented!

        This is the eleventh hour, the last and the greatest dispensation. The Lord will bless those who tried their best with eternal joy. I hope you will one day be eligible for that gift.

        • O. Locke

          this is some great sarcasm!

          thanks for the laughs, pal!

          • JMW

            That last post was pretty dramatic. Seriously, though. You don’t need to claim we’re a cult because you don’t agree with us.

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            I don’t make an unsubstantiated claim against the mormon-cult. It is in fact a cult.

            Cult – a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

            1. the “profit” – joseph smith – #hediditallforthenookie
            2. the one who is still talking to “god” – thomas monson

            the guy who talks to god can just make stuff up and mormon cultists have to follow him. YOU KNOW THAT’S TRUE.

            I call the mormon-cult exactly what it is. get your facts straight about your cult before you start asking rational people questions about it.

            thanks, pal.

          • JMW

            Look, pal.

            I don’t make an unsubstantiated claim defending The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It is, in fact, a legitimate religion that deserves to be respected.

            There are very few religions on earth that don’t meet the definition of cult, pal. Deal with it.

            The prophet won’t make something up. If he did, he wouldn’t be a prophet. The Lord, knowing everything, only calls those He knows won’t do that. We don’t have to follow him. We could just leave the church. YOU KNOW THAT’S TRUE.

            Also, anybody who prays talks to God. Not just the prophet.

            I call your lies exactly what they are. Lies. Get your facts straight about the lies you’ve said before you claim I’m not rational.

            Most people don’t like to be called pal.

            Thanks, pal.

          • O. Locke

            look, buddy.

            mormon-cult ideology has nothing to do with religion. And I love the mormon-cult defense for their truly delusional cult practices. It’s always the same with mormon-cult apologists. Instead of defending the cult they attempt to bring other religions into the conversation.

            the mormon-cult “profits” receive “revelations” when their tax exempt status is threatened. That’s the whole reason god hated blacks til 78′.

            And you can’t “just leave” the mormon-cult. you know how mormon-cultists shun outsiders. SHAME ON YOU for not telling the truth.

            I see you have the mormon-cult apologetics memorized. thanks for illustrating the problem.

            thanks for the exchange, buddy.

          • JMW

            We are a religion. You are a fool to say otherwise. You don’t even know what we believe and practice, thus calling them delusional proves how delusional you are by saying that.

            Pretty much everybody was racist back then. The doctrine of the church is perfect and real. The people in the church aren’t perfect. Everyone makes mistakes.

            Yes, you can “just leave”. In saying things like this, you have only proven your ignorance. We respect those of other religions, and the choice of some to leave ours. We want them to return, but we respect them. SHAME ON YOU for spreading lies!

            I see you have the same pathetic arguments as anyone else who claims what you do.

            This scripture refers to people like you pretty well:

            “Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.”

            Helaman 13:26

            This argument could go on forever. Why don’t we just call a cease-fire, and be done with it? You obviously don’t want to change, and I don’t believe your lies. We won’t get anywhere.

          • O. Locke

            thanks for the personal attacks.

            learn to live with the facts. mormonism is a creepy cultish organization that engage sin campaigns of hatred against minorities.

            live with that.

            thanks for your input, pal.

          • JMW

            “thanks for the personal attacks.”

            Back at you. You haven’t been exactly what most would call polite.

            Learn to admit when you are wrong. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is one of the most persecuted churches ever. I’m surprised we only made number 3. We have high standards, and are hated for it.

            Lies are spread by people like you all the time.

            “mormonism is a creepy cultish organization that engage sin campaigns of hatred against minorities.”

            Seriously? That is such a downright lie that I almost laughed out loud while reading it. That is so far from the truth it’s comical.

            I bet there’s a high chance you made that up on the spot. If not, you just heard it from another person spreading lies. It’s made even more obvious when you can’t even get the name right.

            I do need to apologize, though. I haven’t been very nice to you. Sorry about that. I’ve been trying to not react to being belittled so much by others. (Examples: pal, buddy, etc.) I hope you will stop spreading lies such as the ones you have said to me.

            Also, thanks for letting have the last word. At first, I was going to give that to you. No offense, but I’m happy I didn’t.

            (Seemingly) Random Fun facts:

            Gandalf would make a horrible school teacher.

            I purposefully went looking for a website like this so that I could defend my beliefs. It was actually kind of fun.

            Metroid is an under-appreciated game series.

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            YOU made the personal attack. not me. I can admit when I’m wrong. I do it all the time.

            I’m not wrong about mormon-cult ideology being hateful and bigoted. you should take your own advice and use that new invention you might call “the internets” to figure out the facts you got so horribly wrong.

            random fun fact:

            the mormon-cult god hated blacks til 78′ then changed his mind for votes, ca$h, and a tax exempt status.

            thanks for your input, pal.

          • JMW

            So much for ending the argument…

            Yes, you have been “attacking” me. Stop denying it.

            You are wrong about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. You have been all along. Don’t trust the internet. You should know that.

            We’ve already been over this. Almost everybody was racist back then. Some people in the church were. That doesn’t mean we made our doctrine racist, then changed it back.

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            I havent said a word about you personally. YOU are attacking ME personally because you can’t defend mormon-cult doctrine.

            the mormon-cult was FOUNDED on racism. mormon-cult doctrine says that blacks were against god in heaven and the mormon-cult denies women the same rights as men.

            you can deny it as much as you want but that won’t change the facts.

            thanks for the exchange, pal.

            you can have the last word.

          • JMW

            I can, and obviously have, defended my church. You just said a word about me personally. Good job.

            For the last time, Joseph Smith was not the founder, and we were not founded in this world or on such things.

            Our doctrine does not say that blacks were against God. It says that all who opposed God’s plan of salvation became did not receive a body of flesh and blood. Receiving a body of flesh and blood was the start of the plan, only those who accepted it were given one. Were what you say true, blacks would not be on earth in a physical form.

            Women are equal members in the church with equally important duties. If they were “equal” in the sense you’ve said it, then imagine a mom raising kids who also worked as a bishop. They would be INSANELY busy. The combined stress would be immense.

            Think of it as an asymmetric balance. Just because they aren’t the same doesn’t mean they’re not equal. That’s like saying 5 + 3 isn’t equal to 3 + (3 + 2). Women are indeed equal. Still don’t believe me?

            https://www.lds.org/manual/the-latter-day-saint-woman-basic-manual-for-women-part-a/women-in-the-church/lesson-13-women-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng

            You can deny these truths all you want. Just don’t spread all the lies Satan plants in your heart. He’s also known as the Father of Lies. Be careful who you serve.

            No offense, but what you “know” about my beliefs are things you’ve read on the internet. You really should learn what we actually believe, it might change you. Let’s hope this is the actual end of the argument.

          • Leeann H.

            Why can’t we just agree to disagree? I am a member of the LDS church and I don’t see anything wrong with it. I have MANY friends who are not LDS but I still love and support, even though they do not share the same values as me.
            Someone may say the sky is blue, but as a friend would say, “It looks gray..” That doesn’t mean they are wrong. Everyone sees things differently. If you see Mormons/LDS as a cult, so be it. I do not. I have found happiness and a lot of fun opportunities as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Insulting others DOES NOT make you any bigger or better of a person. Now, if you have any questions, please visit mormon.org or lds.org.

          • JMW

            Well said, Leeann!

            I wish people would look into the LDS church a little more before trusting the sources they’ve got those “facts” from.

          • JMW

            I would like to say, however that we had actually ended the argument just before you said this. It’s pretty lengthy, so I don’t blame you if you didn’t read it all. We had agreed to end the argument at least twice, but it looks like this one will actually be the end. (Phew! I was so sick of hearing such outrageous lies!)

            Please don’t assume either of us think insulting makes us “bigger” or “better”. That was a little mean. I haven’t been the nicest, but it’s not exactly “easy” to restrain unkind words in the midst of a verbal onslaught both in the real and digital world. I have been insulted, belittled, bullied, and gossiped about more times than I can count.

            I liked your post, though. I’m not trying to offend you.

      • Mormon in Utah

        No, I used to be an IRS agent. Most religions are 501c. This the system the Federal Government has set up. Also people expect it. It is just how the United States works. Mormons do not get subsidies except in Italy in which it is forced to do so. It gets tax deductions which since Reagan have not even been that good since you have to have a high rate on schedule A to qualify. you really need to do some research. Your are a typical ignorant anti Mormon.

        • O. Locke

          no, I’m a former mormon-cultists who understands the facts about the cult.

          thank you for your personal insults, pal.

          the mormon-cult should have their tax exempt status revoked.

          • Mormon in Utah

            If you choose to use the word cult in this day and age, you are obviously not very bright. The word is meaningless as applied to Mormons. We are not small and nobody controls our lives. We are not in a compound. Do you use the N word too. This is 2014 not 1946.

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            the mormon cult was using the n-word for its members until 78′ before god changed his mind about them fighting against Jesus and having the mark of cain.

            Youre right about one thing. this is 2014 but mormon cultists think that monson can speak to god and that women shouldn’t have the same rights as men. what a hateful bigoted cult.

            the cult DOES control your life and they force you to tithe, too. SHAME ON YOU for trying to hide the mormon cult’s practices.

          • Mormon in Utah

            Most white people were using the N word in the past. The N word means black in Latin, or is slang for stingy or tight. I do not always pay tithing. Nobody forces me to pay tithing. The only time I felt as a Mormon I was in a cult was when I was on my mission. If you continue to use the word cult I will not respond to you. Jante’s Law.

          • Mormon in Utah

            Personally I feel Atheists, Gays, Catholics, Evangelicals, Mainline Protestants, Muslims, and Jews are more of a cult than Mormons. Mormons at least change and adapt.

          • O. Locke

            thanks for your input and mormon-cult apologetics.

    • harry coleman

      you are a legend in your own mind.That should be a comfort in hell

    • 123456789

      Dear Mormon in Utah: Look. I get that you are very proud. Don’t be. I am mormon too, and I know for a fact that you are not going to change anybody’s minds or get anyone to see your point of view. Saying your superior is quite possibly the most offensive thing i can thing of saying… so please, stop talking. Your giving us a bad name.

      Proving that you are right by making fun of other religions does not prove that yours is better. And religion isn’t about showing that you are right. though everyone else….. I don’t think there is a religion on earth that has a perfect history. And if you want to think about it that way, all religions started out as a cult. And I believe that there are other religions, such as islam that pay tithes. I do not believe that any one religion is superior to the other. So everyone on here, you don’t have to like the mormon religion, you can even hate it if that is how you feel. But don’t base that hate off of vague facts, and remember that no one religion is perfec, including mine.

      • Mormon in Utah

        Who made you my dictator?

        • 123456789

          Nobody did. You can say whatever you want to, I can’t stop you. But It makes me sad that so many people on this page are so hateful, one way or the other. Religion is supposed to help people, not hurt them. So no matter what you personally believe, the LDS church does not, nor ever has taught that we are superior. So I am not your dictator, boss, bishop, or anyone else that your supposed to listen too. But everyone on this page is human; we all have flesh and blood, we all have emotions. We all have different beliefs, why judge others, or yourself, based solely on that?

          • Mormon in Utah

            Joseph Smith taught that the Mormon people were the best people on earth and we are.

          • 123456789

            If you can find a single scripture in the D&C that says that mormons are the best people on earth then I will eat my words. But there isn’t one, because mormons ARE NOT the best people on earth. Those are false words, and part of the reason why we are hated. There are mean mormons, nice mormons, smart Mormons, and intelligent Mormons, and Mormons who are not the sharpest. You cannot judge anyone based solely on their religious standing, it doesn’t work. And if someone is not mormon, it doesn’t mean they are beneath you. That mindset will not help you with anything in life. If you honestly believe that anyone who is not mormon is inferior to you, then good luck: you are going to need it, because people don’t take to that attitude very well. People can think what they want about themselves, but please don’t put words into our mouths.

  • GarryMoss

    Woohoo!!! We made number 3. Gotta love it. Like I tell my kids, “It doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks of you, unless they are right.”

  • dufus

    Because they’re a cult posing as legitimate religion

    • JMW

      Forgive my language, but that is utter bull crap! If you actually knew what we believed, you wouldn’t call us a “cult posing as a legitimate religion”.

      • dufus

        Oh POOH! I know EVERYTHING about Mormonism, which is exactly why iI say that. I have read the “BOOK” and my-in-laws, the wholehow 120+ of them are Mormons

        • JMW

          If you knew “everything” about us, then why do you call it “Mormonism”? We’re the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Do you mind explaining a few of our beliefs? What’s more, it’s called The Book of Mormon, not the “BOOK”. It’s another testament of Jesus Christ to go along with the Bible.

          • dufus

            Oh POOH! you should know your own beliefs

          • JMW

            I know my own beliefs and standards, I was wondering if you knew them, as you claim to know everything about them. That is unless you were bluffing.

          • dufus

            I told you, all my in-laws ARE Mormons and you should know they aught me well– You don’t need to test me. BE GONE

          • JMW

            So you expect me not to react when you claim I am part of a cult? Also, you are definitely bluffing about your knowledge of our religion. You can’t even get the name right. I’ve noticed you have a strong interest in poop, most of us don’t want to hear you voice that.

          • dufus

            Beleive and think that you wnat, after all, that IS what you do best and what is poop???

            NYC Conference on Mormonism & American Politics, February 3-4

            Read more at
            http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/flunkingsainthood/2010/12/why-are-mormons-the-third-most-hated-religious-group-in-america.html#KM8m3l7tPrXSdQMY.99

          • JMW

            Back at you: “Believe and think [what] you [want], after all, that IS what you do best…”

            You are wrong about me and my beliefs. Please don’t harden your heart towards the Lord. He wants you to return to Him. He loves and understands you with an infinite capacity! He sent His only begotten son, Jesus Christ to pay for our sins! The Atonement is real, and you can repent!

            I invite you to pray, with real intent, if the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. I testify with all my heart, might, mind, and strength, that it is true, and hope you one day learn that the true church has been restored! The Great Apostasy is over! This is the last and greatest dispensation. It’s no coincidence that the Industrial Revolution was at the same time as the Restoration! The Lord is hastening his work!

            He will not stop until every soul has heard the gospel truths, and has either accepted or rejected them. I hope you accept them!

          • dufus

            Typical judgmental of the Mormonisms. My relationship with God is my own business– not yours or any other male (or female) being just because he has some title of “priest” minister or other. Go proselytize somewhere else, buddy. (Another you people do.)

            This conversation is over.

          • JMW

            Typical judgement of the (Insert whatever you call yourself here). When did I, or anyone else, say your relationship with God was anybodies but yours?

            Also, the prophet, who I assume you were referring to, doesn’t claim that your relationship with God isn’t your own business.

            (Do you call Catholics “Bibles”? Just wondering.)

            You don’t need to spread lies about my church if you don’t believe it, just don’t have anything to do with it if that works for you.

            By the way, you need to work on making your posts easier to understand, buddy. There are extensive amounts of grammatical and spelling errors.

            I decide when I’m done talking. You don’t.

            I’ve been nice to you and others who mock and belittle me and my beliefs. My patience is thinning. Stop spreading lies, and I’ll leave you alone. Got that? It’s that simple, dufus.

            If you want this conversation to be over, just don’t reply.

          • dufus

            This conversation is over.

          • JMW

            I agree. This conversation is over.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Because you have had the snot beaten out of you in a debate.
            You have been exposed as a hateful, hypocritical fraud

          • Eric R. Johnson

            What did they do to you to make you hate them and us so much? Be specific.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            “Oh, POOH!” was added to the debate texts exactly when?

            Remember, CAPS on the internet is equal to screaming.

            Why do you feel the need to scream?

            Be honest.

          • harry coleman

            yeah thats why in the articles of faith it says you believe the Bible as far as it is correctly translated.Here’s a news flash slick..it is totally correct.The book of moron is crap

          • JMW

            The Bible has been re-translated many times, resulting in multiple available versions. We take that into consideration. That’s why it says that.

            https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/04/the-miracle-of-the-holy-bible?lang=eng

          • harry coleman

            You have done me a great service today.You have affirmed that normally intelligent people can also be dumb as a box of rocks.You really should research the method for translating scripture.Oh I forgot…morons aren’t allowed to question anything without being in danger of excommunication.The recent news( except on church owned ksl) are full of reports of that so you’d be hard pressed to deny it.I do appologize for having no tolerance for people that remain deceived by choice.I guess because I was once there myself.If you ever have a real encounter with Jesus and the truth it will change your life.All that crap that you’ve been taught is a lie.Be warned though…should you ever decide to come out of the dark you’ll lose family.friends,and question how they could be so stupid.Considering your eternity depends on it you may find it doesn’t matter.Following the REAL Jesus ain’t for wimps.It will cost you everything.However,He died for you because He considered the cost to save you from hell to be worth it. I do hope you find the truth.I have no idea why I feel such compassion for you…must be the love of Christ compelling me because I find most mormons irritatelingly blind.May you find the REAL Jesus.

          • JMW

            I follow Jesus Christ, the savior of the world. We are taught to do our best to become more like Him.

            I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is true, and that the Atonement of Jesus Christ is real!

            https://www.lds.org/

          • harry coleman

            You are lost and blind.I pray you’ll find the truth. I’m done here.The Bible says don’t cast pearls before swine so…I pray you find the truth.

          • JMW

            I have found the truth! I am sorry you don’t think it’s the truth, but I testify in Christ’s name that it is!

            https://www.lds.org/

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Harry, which one is totally correct? There is more than one.

            Specifically, why is the BoM Crap in any better or worse fashion than whichever Bible you choose?

            Christians world wide cannot even agree on Christmas and Easter. Orthodox Christians celebrate these important points on different dates.

            So who is correct? The west or the east?

          • harry coleman

            Only God is correct.that’s why we need the Holy Spirit tot each us in all things.The Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit.I trust that ay more than I will J.Smith.He was a womanizer and thief.I don’t hate Mormons just the doctrine.It’s so transparent if people will just do the research.
            East and West are both wrong…and right.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            And the Catholic Church is a cabal of child molesters, right?

          • harry coleman

            They certainly have their share but…so do the Baptists,Pentacostals and yes even the mormons oh… and athiests.

          • Eric Johnson

            and your vehemence with regard to them can bne found where, exactly, with equal amounts of vicious vitriolic languiage and intent? What would you like Mormons to do?

            Leave their faith, after seeing to closure and sale of their establishments’s assets worldwide, including the closure of universities and schools, and then walk away from SLC and Utah and all of that part of the Southwest, West, Northwest and Hawaii, leacing it all to whom?

            Those tithe payers who paid for most of it are dead. Add it to their estates posthumously and then tax half of it as straight death tax, inclusive of fees fines and penalties for not having paid it correctly in the first place?

            You have a campaign with no goals except to prove yourselves correct, which is very mastrubatory…. fun but producing no results.

            And I don’t have to prove anything, as you guys are those making monstrous allegations as if they were parking tickets.

            No institution can disagree with you or any other institution, especially in this case, Christianity, as in religion with zealots there seems to be only their answer, meaning your answer, even though religion is a matter of faith where there are no answers, so the religion of upstate New York, which is what Mormonism is, is just as legitimate as the religion emanating from Rome. And even in Rome cannot be settled upon, as the papacy was months moved to Constantinople, that which we know now as Istanbul, and there were at one point two Popes, one in Rome, and one in Avignon, which is in France. A very nice place in France, too, in the southern region of Provence.

            In addition to these two Papal Schisa, was also the Reformation, and the Spanish Inquisition, and the wholesale theft of Roman Catholic properties in its conversion to the Church of England for the sole purpose of sex life of a given King.

            So that makes the Church of England are Episcopalians extraordinarily more valid than the LDS church, right?

            Then there’s half of the world’s Christians who don’t agree with the other half of the world’s Christians, and those would be the Orthodox and the Catholics and Protestants and of course the Mormons, as you say there are doctrinal differences.

            But why such vehemence against the Mormon church among this particular group and just don’t understand. And so I ask the ultimate question from above:

            What are we supposed to do:

            Provide us with a map of the breakup of the LDS church. The entire 10 million people plus hierarchy can’t simply walk away, as the place would have to be shut down, and the lights turned off.

            Have you thought about this? How would that happen?

            The extraordinarily specific, so we can get the show on the road. Complaining about it isn’t going to do anyone any good.

          • harry coleman

            LOL have you been drinking??? You sound like it.I don’t want Mormons…or anyone else…To turn off the lights and leave.I want them to tell the truth about all the crap they hide and to realize joe was a false prophet.I don’t suppose that will ever happen.Btw it would be nice if all people would do that not just the religous.

          • harry coleman

            After a fit of laughter I have to admit you provoked me too think about what I REALLY want from Mormons.This is it.I want Mormons …and all churches… to humble themselves before God and admit they’ve blown it.I want the leaders to stand up and say ” In the past our leaders have blown it.We’ve taught false doctrine about some things.We repent before God and man.From now on we will tell the truth and follow the Bible.We will deal honestly about our history.” I know this is only a dream and most likely will never happen.

            A word about tithing.Before you ask…yes I tithe.Tithing is a spiritual law.It will work for anyone that does it no matter if it’s Mormons or any other religion.Like gravity it just works.

            This is basically all I have to say on this subject.God bless you on your journey.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Be specific with your allegation. Where in the scripture is this womanizing and thievery described.

            Be specific, as I am an expert.

          • harry coleman

            You aren’t much of an expert.I’m not trying to insult you but you need to read his personal history.You could google it.It’s isn’t scripture it’s HIS personal history..

          • harry coleman

            As humorous as our discussion is I won’t be able to continue for a few days.I have medical stuff coming up.I think I’ll actually miss this!

          • Eric Johnson

            HIS? Do you mean God?

            Joseph Smith is not someone whom I worship.

            And we were not taught to worship him. He is dead and the New president of the Church is the Prohpet of God.

            What am I missing, except your disagreement, which I am certainly not missing?

            Why so much energy devoted to “exposing” the LDS Church?

            What did thery ever do to you?

            Be specific.

            This hatred cannot habve it’s genesis in the fact that The LDS sect has different doctrine than other Christain sects.

            Other Chrisian sects have different sets of rules.

            Baptists aren’ttoo fond of Cathiolics, as well as Mormoms, and what was that objection to JFK? Was it not that he would be following the lead in the orders of the Pope and not following the laws of the United States and its Constitution?

            and as I keep saying, there’s half the world’s Christians, Orthodox, who celebrate major Christian holidays different days of the year.

            So for any one of you to stand here in this conversation and report that you know and hold the truth, which is nothing I’ve said… I’ve been attacking your attacks on the LDS church which are unfair and a waste of your time given how small the LDS church is.

            Where is your campaign against the Catholic diocese of Los Angeles and other Catholic diocese across the United States and the world, as the sexual abuse of boys does not stop at the US border?

            That church switched known pedophiles from being a priest for one set of Catholics to being a priest for a different set of Catholics in a different geographic location. Nobody called the police.

            Can you please find me any such scandals in the LDS church?

            and then would you please contemplate the question, “is the protection of active pedophiles better or worse than simple sectarian differences over which honest men may disagree?

          • Eric R. Johnson

            I don’t worship Joseph Smith.

            I worship Jesus Christ, and his Father, and the Holy Ghost.

          • harry coleman

            Hmmm someow I doubt you know the Mormon doctrine then.Which Jesus? Which Father.? I suggest you research(Honestly) the church historyand what the so called prophets had to say.It’s absolutely humorous.

          • Eric Johnson

            Sorry, But I have 14 credit hours of LDS study under my belt.

            Went to Primary and Sunday School.

            Just yell me what you want me to think is stupid, and I’ll context it for you.

            I’m not going to “research,” something you say I will find.

            Give me chapter and vers of what you find so humerous.

            Or you, my friend, are nthinh bnut a troll. The

            Why should do your work for you? You are te one who is demanding I belive something else.

            Up to you to bring the evidence to the table.

            I have been appalled about vhow little you guys seem to know about the LDS church, but then again, I have recognized this as a problem for the church since high school.

            It’s the same thing with marijuana. Most people have no idea what they’re talking about because they’re not involved. You clearly are not involved so you clearly don’t have any idea what you’re talking about.

            Further you claim to be an expert yourself, but you brought nothing to the table to show that you are an expert. What makes you an expert such that you can decide that the LDS church is less than valid, while every other sect I assume including the Jehovah’s Witnesses are just fine.

            I don’t hear you bashing Jews, who don’t believe there has been a Messiah, and certainly not Jesus Christ.

            And I noticed that the title of this article is why the Mormons the third most hated religious group.

            Why don’t you climb on the back of the other two?

          • Eric R. Johnson

            True, it’s Pat Robertson who wrote a contemporary bible called the book, which he sells.

            LDS church gives away the book of Mormon.

        • Eric R. Johnson

          So why are you so upset?

      • harry coleman

        I do know your doctrine.I was raised mormon in utah.It’s all lies and bullshit.mormonism is just that…an ism.Oh and I say again…a lie out of the pit of hell.

        • JMW

          I’m sorry you feel that way. I have found peace in knowing my real purpose on this earth.

          I am trying to follow Christ’s example in my life. I have fallen short many, many times. Thanks to Christ’s Atonement, I can repent! I promise you, these are not lies! I testify of the truth of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ!

          https://www.lds.org/

    • JMW

      Sorry, that was kind of mean. Really though, what makes you think that?

      • Ivy Blackledge Whitfield

        You’re a cult posing as a legitimate religion.

        • JMW

          We’ve already been over this. You guys obviously know nothing about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I could repeat all the arguments all over again, but no matter how many times I repeat it, it won’t change your foolish and uninformed opinions. Sorry of that sounds harsh, but it’s true. Btw, did you know I created this account solely because of the comment that claimed I was part of a cult?

          • O. Locke

            you are part of a cult. a hateful bigoted cult.

            as far as I know mormon-cult theology is the only cult founded on racial hatred.

            you should learn about your own religion before asking people to educate you on it.

          • JMW

            Again, we’ve already been over this. I know what I believe. Also, you need to get your facts straight. The amount of lies that I’ve heard from people like you is ridiculous.

            You’ve just proven you really don’t know what you’re talking about. If you actually knew what we believed, and still called us a cult, then you’re calling every Christian religion on earth a “bigoted cult”. Also, the church was founded on this earth more than 2000 years ago. Not with Joseph Smith.

            Christ brought the gospel onto the earth, and over the centuries, people corrupted and changed it, losing the power of the Priesthood (The power that Christ used to heal the sick, raise the dead, bless the sacrament, create the earth, etc.), and splitting into several churches.

            God said that he would restore the fullness of His gospel on the earth in the latter days. The prophet, Joseph Smith, helped to restore the Priesthood, and correct doctrine on the earth. God said that his true church will be the only church with modern apostles and prophets, along with modern revelation. What other church on earth has modern prophets and revelation? No others claim to.

            Before you start ranting about how we are “racists” and “polygamists”, and “bigots”, and whatever other nonsense, just listen to me. The doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a perfect doctrine, but we are not perfect people. As people, we all make mistakes, and all fall short of perfection on this earth. Other churches have made mistakes as people, but I doubt you rant about them being cults.

            To finish off, yes, you are wrong. You don’t have to believe what I believe, but don’t hate me and my beliefs when you don’t actually know what they are. (Though you like to claim you do know.)

          • O. Locke

            the mormon-cult has nothing to do with Christianity.

            the cult ceased being part of Christianity when it decided that a grifter “profit” joseph smith had anything to do with god. just so you know, perfect and the cult’s name don’t belong in the same sentence.

            if you don’t mind ignoring your cult’s history of hatred and bigotry, that is on you.

            thanks for your input, pal.

          • JMW

            The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints mentions Christ in the name. Of course we are Christians.

            We were always part of Christianity. Joseph Smith did not do any of this for a profit. You know that’s true, but you lie about it anyway. Satan must have a pretty good foothold inside of you. Just so you know, yes, perfect and the restored fullness of the gospel do belong in the same sentence.

            If you don’t mind ignoring the truth of what actually happened, that is on you.

            Thanks for being so misinformed, pal. (Not really.)

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            I think the “profit” joseph smith #diditallforthenookie. you can close your mind to the facts but that doesn’t mean everyone else will.

            the mormon-cult is a hateful bigoted organization that engages in campaigns of hatred against minorities.

            thanks for your input and this exchange, pal.

            you can have the last word.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            We are now working with the profit Thomas Monson.

            The LDS church hierarchy is the business of trying to out-honest each other.

            This means it’s likely the most honest Church hierarchy in the world bar none.

            How is the LDS church hateful and bigoted, you keep saying this, but should give no proof.

            Are you saying that people and organizations are not allowed to have their own opinions in the United States of America?

            That does seem to be what you’re saying. Why are you so worried that the LDS church like pretty much every other Christian church eschews homosexuality? How to Southern Baptists feel about homosexuality? How did Southern Baptists feel about blacks?

            Is Sunday morning at 11 o’clock not the most segregated Time in the American week?

            Yes it is. Why is that White people in almost every church except the LDS church don’t like to worship with black people.

            So it does seem if you’re going to allege certain difficulties with one religious sect, you’ll have to accede to all of the difficulties of all of the sects represented in United States, Wouldn’t you think?

            Or are you singularly bigoted toward the Mormon church?

            Oh I just saw…, you will allow us to have the last word? So funny.

            That clearly means that you’re giving up, Because you cannot defend your position with facts.

            I love being an expert.

          • O. Locke

            creepy and cultish.

          • harry coleman

            I’m reposting this because it’s important to be correct..and yes it was translated correctly.Galatians 1:7 there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.But,even if we,or an angel from Heaven,preach any other gospel to you other than what we have preached to you let him be accursed. Joseph Smith is cursed.I challenge you to pray for a real encounter with Jesus Christ.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            You don’t know your Bible actually because there’s a whole lot of stuff which is after Galatians… what about all those additions?

            Be specific if you are able

          • harry coleman

            Galatians is the reference I needed at the time.You state the obvious.Of course there is more scripture after that.Would you be more comfortable discussing the koran? I know nothing about that so you could be as arrogantly smug about it as you like :)

          • Mojo

            Right, and all those letters agreed with what had been taught before. They weren’t part of a different gospel.

          • JMW

            That scripture is correct. The Book of Mormon does not contradict Christ’s doctrine. It is more of it.

            https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/11.31,32,33,34,35?lang=eng#30

          • Eric R. Johnson

            You don’t have the Church history correct, sir, so you seem to be lacking already with your the LFS church is a cult assertion.

            Jim Jones in Guyana was a cult.
            The Kids in san diego who cut their testicles off while awaiting the mother ship rescue is a cult.

            The Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh and his group in Oregon were a cult.

            David Koresh’s group was a Cult.

            The LDS church shares none of the aspects of these above groups.

            I just love it when I come across people who know nothing about the LDS church, It’s biggest PR problem, by the way, made worse by bald-faced lies from people who believe the LDS church cult, but somehow the church the belong to isn’t.

            Besides, would Jesus be so angry as you about people who care about their families and communities and countries as much as the Mormons do?

            By the way, they were on the move toward New Orleans well before the Hurricane hit with loads of people and supplies.

            Ask those flooded-out how they feel about Mormons. G’dead, I dare you.

          • O. Locke

            and the mormon-cult destroys families, shuns gays, gives women no rights, and was an openly racist cult til 78′.

            shame on you, pal.

          • Rachel

            My family is closer together beacuse of the church, all my relatives family’s are closer to together beacuse of it to. The people in my church are closer to there family’s, EXECPT those with family’s that disown them beacuse they bielive in the Mormon church WICH is wrong on so many levels. We aren’t given rules to shun gays, that’s only a portion of are people that a huge portion of are people disagree with them. I personally don’t hate homesexules but love them as I love everyone ( like you love a family not give love incase you take that in a perverted way). And as I love even people that hate us. I am also a woman ( well, sixteen) and feel as if no rights were taken from me. I belive and trust in God, he has been around far longer then us and is far wiser than any of us, that’s why I feel no guilt following my relgion or the prophet. And none of the people in my ward are racist.
            I’ve found only happiness from the church.
            And I hope you can find it to.
            I love my relgion, I love God, I love my family, and love every one

          • O. Locke

            just because you feel no rights have been taken from you doesn’t mean that you lost them while you refused to think.

            you should be able to lead a cult congregation, you should be allowed to hold the cult priesthood.

            and god has not been around longer than humanity unless of course you’re referring to the gods of egypt. although the gods of egypt arent the gods joseph smith was lying about in his ridiculous obviously fraudulent text he made up.

            And so you know, loving your family has nothing to do with the mormon cult. and if a cult is the only thing that makes you love you will eventually be miserable.

            thanks for your input, darlin!

          • Guest

            Actually, the LDS church does not “shun” or “hate” gays. This is from lds.org, “The Church firmly believes that all people are equally beloved children of God and deserve to be treated with love and respect. Church apostle Elder Quentin L. Cook stated, “As a church, nobody should be more loving and compassionate. Let us be at the forefront in terms of expressing love, compassion and outreach. Let’s not have families exclude or be disrespectful of those who choose a different lifestyle as a result of their feelings about their own gender.” And the LDS church does not take away or give women rights, and they dod not give or take away men’s rights either, that is the government. The church gives volunteer-based callings to both men and women such as Relief Society President, Sunday school teacher, Ward Clerk, etc… The church believes that God loves all of his children, and were always against slavery, although most early Americans were not. What you have to keep in mind that when the church was established, the 1800s, slavery was a popular and an accepted policy. Most members of the church were against slavery, and some blacks were able to receive the priesthood keys. This was denied blacks until the 1970s, right after blacks were given the right to vote. Blacks were never segregated in congregations or denied membership like most religions did. Today, black people, asian people, hispanic people, white people, whatever, all have access to every aspect of the gospel.

          • O. Locke

            okay.

            when the mormon cult stops shunning gays and destroying families that might be right.

            thanks for the input, pal.

          • Rachel

            Funny thing, there is more evidence that catholics aren’t christians then that Mormons aren’t christians. In fact we follow the teachings of CHRIST ( CHRISTian) where as the Catholics follow the teachings of mosses, might have been a diffrent prophet though.

          • O. Locke

            “they’re not doing it whay should we”? lets focus on the mormon-cult.

            you do what so many mormon cult apologists like doing. deflect criticism by comparing joseph smith to david koresh. you should be ashamed of yourself.

            thanks for your input, darling.

          • Rachel

            The people opposing the church have a bigger history of hatred and bigotry just so you know.
            How can you assume that church that preaches love to everyone can be hateful? I personally find that a very bigoted idea.

            You seem like a person who doesn’t change very easily. If your a person that hangs on to there ideals and doesn’t consider the other side then your more bigoted then me.

            ( I do realize there are some Mormons out there who don’t truly follow the gospel, and am sorry for the wrong teachings they might have given you ( like homosexuals are going to everlasting hell, THATS not going to happen, it’s actully rather difficult to get into that hell) but you shouldn’t hate on people who don’t know you yet love you.)

          • O. Locke

            look, darling.

            until the mormon cult gives women equal rights. I contend that it is the mormon cult who are the evil bigots.

            the mormon cult was founded on the hatred and subjugation of minorities. people should be ashamed to apologize for this openly bigoted cult.

            thanks for your input, darling.

          • harry coleman

            you obviously don’t know your own doctrine.Like most mormons you are poorly educated and totally deceived.

          • JMW

            I testify of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I know it is true!

            https://www.lds.org/

          • harry coleman

            Finally! Something we can agree on.The Gospel of Jesus Christ is true.Unfortunately.mormons follow the gospel of joseph smith.I challenge you to read your own church history and discourses …especially parley pratt and brigham young.They’re my favorite mormons. because they always ,always prove my point.Don’t stop there.When you see how they contradict themselves and each other then line it up with the Bible.Study this stuff out and keep an open mind.I’m starting to like you:)…you’re no wimp and you seem to earnestly contend for your faith.You are wrong but but I sense you truely want to know the truth.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            How long was Joseph Smith a part of the Church? What about all the rest of that time? Where did he get the education to write 3 scripture books?

            Where did he get the education to translate any golden plates he may or may not have found?

            This is the central question of the LDS church…Did Joseph Smith write or translate the Book of Mormon.

            Every faith contradicts itself. Show me one church which is completely internally consistent.

            How do you know Mormons are wrong? What empirical evidence can you bring to the table to show that Mormons are wrong and you are, therefore right?

          • harry coleman

            I don’t pretend to be right about most things :) I do believe the Bible is right.Eric,in case you didn’t notice,Joseph Smith started the Mormon Church.I suspect he as a member from day 1 :)I don’t believe there were any golden dishes.The only church that ill ever be consistent is the one that is established by God,Himself.When I line Mormon Doctrine up with The Bible it isn’t even close.Bt,mormon doctrine isn’t in The book of mormon.That book was a VERY loose copy with a few changes by Joe.Most mormons don’t even know what all the doctrine is.They are ignorant that Brigham Young taught that e came from the planet kolab and that Jesus is the brother of satan and that Adam is the God of this world…or that we(men) will become gods.This is all verifiable facts.You can probably google it.

          • harry coleman

            sorry the w on my comp is sticking

          • Eric R. Johnson

            We all make typos. You are fogiven. Except for me, as I am not forgiven for my typos in this discussion, I am bashed.
            Way to go!

          • harry coleman

            You are forgiven for everything.Whether you accept it is your choice :)

          • Eric Johnson

            I accept that, as do all other LDS members who correctly understand their faith.

            So, WTF are you talking about? Be specific.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Harry, I am an expert on the Church. Smith founded the Church, but he has been dead for like 160 years.

            Golden Plates… that is the Faith question… the essential question of the LDS church.
            Reject it if you wish…. personally.

            But bashing it like this, incessantly, is pretty un-christian, don’t you think?

            If Mormons are left alone, what is the danger? Be specific.

            I am certain you believe all kinds of lies, half- and total un-truths in all kinds of areas of your life.
            Why are you so animated against the LDS church?

            Are you trying to save me?

          • harry coleman

            LOL no Eric I am not trying to save you! I can’t save a gnat much less you.Besides that’s not my job.I’m animated against Mormons because that cult has done alot of damage to my family and it’s all lies.It isn’t my intention to bash anyone.I’m not perfect and won’t be on this side of the grave so telling me I’m unchristian is probably the most acurate thing you’ve said…and a moot point. The danger is hell Eric.I don’t want my worst enemy to go there.I’m motivated by love not anger or hate.If I hated Mormons I’d never post anything and would think hell is a good place for them.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Which Bible do you line up?

          • harry coleman

            Hope ypur machine is a great comfort to you in hell.

          • Mojo

            He didn’t. That’s why the BoM is a strange mish-mash of Middle and Modern English. And he had friends to help him. Orson Prat, et al. Book of Abraham was a plagerized Egyptian death scroll. The D and C was just a collection of ramblings that furthered his enterprise.

          • JMW

            The best way to understand the Book of Mormon is to read it.

            https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/10.3,4,5?lang=eng#2

            Here’s an introduction to the Doctrine and Covenants:

            https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/introduction?lang=eng

            The book of Abraham is a wonderful book of scripture that teaches about the pre-mortal life and the creation. The introduction to the Pearl of Great Price includes the book of Abraham:

            https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/introduction?lang=eng

          • Mojo

            I’ll leave you with this literary gem from 4 Nephi 1:6: And thus did the thirty and eighth year pass away, and also the thirty and ninth, and forty and first, and the forty and second, yea, even until forty and nine years had passed away, and also the fifty and first, and the fifty and second; yea, and even until fifty and nine years had passed away.

          • Mojo

            I can’t pass this one up: Ether 2:20 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.”
            Why, for goodness sake, would there need to be a hole in the botton of the boat??

          • Mojo

            Or this one, really: Ether 15: And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz. And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.”
            So really? His capa has been detated from his head, and yet he he GOT UP ON HIS HANDS AND KNEES AND STRUGGLED FOR BREATH??

          • JMW

            Joseph Smith was and is a prophet of God. The Book of Mormon is the Lord’s evidence of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ!

            I challenge you to read the first chapter of the first book of Nephi. Here’s a link:

            https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/1?lang=eng

            Here’s how you can know if it is true:

            https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/10.3,4,5?lang=eng#2

            Let me know what you think about that.

          • Rachel

            I feel a love for you and know this church is true. I hope we can both nourish are testimonys and let them grow.

          • Rachel

            I am perfectly well educated thank you very much
            And okay, tell us what are doctrine is?
            Your actually are the one deceiving yourself with false hoods, you take facts that don’t exist and try to use them against us.
            Am I decivied? I was promised that this gospel would give me happiness, and it’s given me that and so much more. Every blessing promised to me if I followed the gospel has been kept.
            How can YOU be right when your most likly preaching out of hate for us when we’re preaching out of love?

          • Eric R. Johnson

            What is hate and bigoted? What makes you an expert? and what specifically makes it a cult? Just because you say it is doesn’t make it true.

            Why is the LDS chirch a Cult and not any other Church, say the Catholic Church, or the Dutch Reformed (Calvinist)church? The Russian and Greek Orthodox church?

            What about the Church of England, Alex (will he get the reference?), which they call the episcopalians here?

            The Lutherans? Why are they not a Cult?

            Baptists? Why are they not a cult? Be very specific?

            And the Jews, are they a cult? Be specific as to why or why not.

            If you have the guts and knowledge to answer any one of these questions succinctly and with some, any, kind of erudition, I;ll give you $1000 US dollars.

          • O. Locke

            an obvious fraud says he found some golden plates and an angel spoke to him in palmyra new york?

            are you kidding me?

            Or what about god hating black people til 78′ then changing his mind for votes, a tax exempt status, and some cash.

            go educate yourself on the mormon-cult then you won’t need to ask me this question.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            How would you know… Were you alive in the mid 1800s?

            Is it any less believable than Christ making water into wine or walking on water?

            How were black people treated in other churches?

            Why do we have such segregation in the USA on Sunday Mornings at 11:00, which is the most segregated time in the American week?

            Is it because non-Mormon sects allowed blacks and whites to worship together?

            The Catholic Church has had only White Europeans as Pope for several thousand years. No worthy black people in that time?

            The LDS church holds the Bible to be true, too.

          • Mojo

            “Is it any less believable than Christ making water into wine or walking on water?”
            Yes. Because what Joe peddled was drivel to fool simple people. It dissagrees with scripture.

            “The LDS church holds the BIble to be true, too”. Have you read it? It contradicts so much of what your church teaches. About all you have correct is that there is indeed a Diety, and His name is Jesus the Christ. Past that, you’re dead wrong.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Yes, word-by-word, verse-by-verse over 2 semesters of 2 credit/hr. university level work. So Old Testament over 2 semesters and New testament, also taught over two semesters.

            The God’s name is Elohim, or Elo.

            I believe in the Bible. How am I dead wrong?

            Name any contadictions, and I’ll handle them one-by-one, showing how your spittle shooting angry but nascent thoughts just don’t get it because of a screen-full of propaganda shoved your way by someone in your life.

            By the way, I don’t say you are wrong. Why do youinsist on screaming and pointing at me for being wrong?

            I’ve never been on a mission.

          • Mojo

            Again with the accusation of anger. I think you’re projecting. I’m not angry in the least bit. Zealos for the truth, and astounded that you sound so much like I used to, but not at all angry. Stop reading anger into what people who disagre with you say. It only serves to mess up the delightful dialog we’re having.
            Elohim is indeed A name for God, but the Jews have always called him Yahweh, and more often than not, that’s what it says in the Hebrew bible, and also how God presented Himself to Moses. Adoni is another name for God. El Shadi is yet another.

            Pardon me while I whip out my notes….

          • Mojo

            So how many Gods are there? One, or many? Because there are mormon sources that say one: Alma 11:27-39, 44; 2 Nephi 31:21; Mormon 7:7; 3 Nephi 11:27 Testimony of the three witnesses, and other sources that say many: Doctrine and Covenants 121:32; 132:18-20, 37, Book of Abraham’s version of the creation story.

            Does God dwell in our hearts? Yes: Alma 34:36, No: D&C 130:3

            Did we exist before this life? No: Jacob 4:9; Alma 18:28, 34-36, Yes: D&C 93:23, 29-33, PGP Bk of Abraham 3:18, 21-23

          • Mojo

            “disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” circa 40AD, Acts 11:26 Alma 46:13-16 (supposedly) written in 73 BC refers to Nephites as Christians.

            Jesus is only head of church Col 1:18
            Joe Smith is head of Mormon church D&C 28:2-6

            “Jesus was born in Bethlehem” Mt 2:1, Mt 21:17
            “He shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem” Alma 7:10

            Three hours of darkness at crucifixion Luke 23:44
            Three days of darkness at crucifixion Hel 14:20-27

            God is spirit without flesh and bones John 4:24; Luke 24:39
            God has flesh and bones like man: D&C 130:22

            God tempts no one. (James 1:13-14). Man is basically sinful. (Rom. 8:5-8; I Cor 2:14) and that the fall of man by sinning in the Garden of Eden brought death and suffering into the world, and thus the need for a savior and Messiah.
            The LDS teach it brought mortality and physical death – not fallen nature – believe Adam was given two conflicting commandments and was supposed to fall. “…if Adam had not transgressed…. they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin….Adam fell that men might be;” (BM, 2 Nephi 2:22-23).
            Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. wrote, “I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin” (Doctrines of Salvation, (DS), vol. 1, p. 114)
            “This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin in the strict sense, for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do!” (Ibid., p. 115). “The ‘fall’ of Adam and Eve was not a sin but an essential act upon which mortality depends” (Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 5, p. 15).

            Sounds like something Satan would say to cover himself!

            The Gospel according to the mormons is per Mormon Church system and doctrines. The gospel per the bible is the Message of Christ’s death and resurrection as atonement for our sins. (I Cor 15:1-4; Gal 1:8).

            The church per the mormons is only the Mormon Church – true church taken from earth until Joseph Smith restored it. But the bible says that as a born-again Christian, we are part of God’s Church. (I Cor 12:12-14; Matt 18:19-20; Matt 16:18).

            The LDS believe only LDS have authority to baptize, ordain, etc – have two-part system of priesthood – Melchizedek and Aaronic. But the bible says that Jesus brought end to Aaronic priesthood and is the ONLY High Priest after manner of Melchizedek. (Heb 5:9; II Tim 2:2).

            Your “heaven” is divided into three kingdoms – Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial – place for almost everyone (misuse of I Cor 15:40-41). I remember when the elders taught me that one pretty well. But the bible only mentions two conditions – everlasting punishment or life eternal. (Matt. 25:31- 46, among many other verses on the topic).

            Speaking of hell, the mormons see Hell as an institution in eternity – inmates come and go as in jail – don’t spend eternity there – stay until one has paid debt to God. But the bible has no mention of people getting out of Hell. (Rev. 21:8; Matt 13:24-43 and 47-50; Luke 16:26)

            The doozie was learning that the mormon version of God the Father actually fornicated with Mary to produce Jesus: “For our present purposes, suffice it to say that our Lord was born of a virgin, which is fitting and proper, and also natural, since the Father of the Child was an immortal Being” (The Promised Messiah, pg. 466). “Christ was begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 547) Then there was the necessary redefinition of the word “virgin”: “Our Lord is the only mortal person ever born to a virgin, because he is the only person who ever had an immortal Father.” (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., p. 822).

          • O. Locke

            I don’t need to have been there to know that an obvious fraud is lying about jews ferrying themselves to America and that they were using egyptian hieroglyphics to write messages in 17th century english.

            the mormon-cult is an obviously fake made up cult.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Really? Would actually having been at Appomatox not have been superior to any research 145 years later?

            Was it Jews? I wasn’t taught that. The story of Noah os al A-OK, then? nd the Parting of the Red Sea? Surely that is as fraudulent as anything Joseph Smithmight have been able to come up with.

            Why are you stuck on men’s use of boats, which predates the BoM times by several tens of thousands of years.

            How were the America’s populated again?

          • O. Locke

            look, buddy.

            you keep asking me to educate you on the fradulent claims of your cult.

            GO READ A BOOK!

            it isn’t my job to educate you and answer your ridiculous questions.

            thanks for your input, buddy.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Why the hell is it my responsibility to write your PhD dissertation for you?

            They are your allegations, you prove them.

            I’m far more of an expert on the LDS church than you could ever hope to be, both pedigree-wise and via academe, and your nonsense is just that, nonsense.

            If you want to say which books/articles I should read to see WTF you are talking about, name them, as -you- are clearly not elequoent enough to read, digest, and do a simple regurgitaion of what you have read in order to prove what you believe by talking points to be true.

            As of now, you are justa whiny fake, which makes it fun to know how much space I occupy in your mind at this point.

            In any case, I don’t have any idea what you are talking about, and neither does anyine else here on this forum.

            Look at the posts, especially mine, as I am attacking you and your spittle-shooting angry outbursts befitting the worst toddler-hood tantrum ever made, not defending the Church.

            Too bad you are so obtuse.

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            you used this weak response on someone else. I’m follwoing you and I’ve read your ridiculous responses.

            the mormon cult apologetics don’t change the facts.

            thanks for your input, pal.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            No, I am not kidding. It’s religion.

            A burning bush which does not consume itself?

            Water into wine?

            Fish for all?

            Walking on Water?

            Parting of the Red Sea?

            Yep those are all OK…

            But finding archeological artifacts in New York state in the early part of the 19th Century? Naahhhh, cannot possibly be.

            God did not hate black people until 1978. The LDS Church grew up in the USA, which to this day has little use for black people.

            (One of my physicians, a Black woman, board certified in 5 things, turned white when the Beverly Hills Police came around the corner as she was dropping me at my car earlier this year.

            We were 500 feet from her office.

            So how does the USA feel about Black people in 2014?

            Barak Obama is State-of-Hawaiian in culture, as there is no place on Oahu, or even in the state, where I lived at the time, and where he spent his formative years, where the African American culture is expressed, except on one or two military bases, such as Schoefield barracks, which was being closed rapidly at the time, or Pearl Harbor which lost one or 2 major ships during that time period.

            So we dont yet even have a black president.

            And you guys are whining because the LDS Church made it’s decision that Black people -could- not be excluded from the Priesthood, as it’s not to be found in the scripture… and such feelings are contrary to the missionary task?

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            you should be ashamed of yourself for not acknowledging that the mormon cult didn’t help perpetuate some of the worst stereotypes of American Blacks in an effort to justify their bigoted cult inspired hatred.

            I won’t even quote your ‘profit’ joseph smith or that disgusting racist brigham young.

            SHAME on you, pal!

          • Eric Johnson

            Look Bub,

            You should be ashamed of yourself for putting forth such hideous inaccuracies and carrying on such a double standard oriented hate campaign against a single Christian religious sect in the United States when most Christian religious sects and major Christian divisions, (Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox) don’t feel any different.

            Many African-Americans are furious with Pres. Obama for having changed his mind, yes, changed his mind on the subject of homosexual marriage.

            African-American churches in the South are thoroughly opposed to homosexuality.

            And your wild bashing campaign against homophobic African-American churches in the South is exactly where?

            You should be ashamed of yourself for picking one set of people to dump all of your hatred upon when other similar groups have the same policies and opinions.

            What part of Mormon doctrine regarding sexual behavior is different than any other Christian sect’s doctrine regarding sexual behavior, with specific reference to homosexuality?

            This brings up the question, since there’s not really that much of a difference from church to church, and by the way there are gay friendly wards in California (hmmm, how did that happen?)

            Why so much vehemence against the one church and anyone who would dare challenge you on your hysteria?

            I don’t care to challenge you on doctrinal issues per se, as you and I are not going to ever agree on it. And I’m not the unreasonable person in that dynamic.

            I want to know why you only attack one church when the rest of Christendom holds the same opinion, and further, when some of them, particularly those outside the United States, have the severest of punishments carried out by those younger men worshiping in the same chapel/cathedral?

            the LDS church does not call for nor allow for the killing of homosexuals.

          • O. Locke

            LOL!

            pathetic, pal.

          • Eric Johnson

            What makes me the fraud and not you?
            You are the one spitting fire (something Satan might do?) anout the LDS church while saying nothing about what they did to you to make youhate them so much, most, if not all Christian sects hate and despise the same groups of people.

            My younger Ukrainian housekeeper in Amsterdam tells me that in Ukraine in southern Russia you better not be known as being homosexual, or you will be killed or otherwise beaten to a pulp.

            My Russian girlfriend, from the extreme north, told me the same thing. And there’s a lot of extremely pious Russians. The Orthodox Church for expatriates certainly in at least two countries that I know of personally the USA and Holland, the central organizing units of Russian and Ukrainian life.

            Where on earth it’s your campaign against the Orthodox church which just in fact does happen to exist in the United States of America. And certainly has more members than the 5 million Mormons in the United States.

            Perhaps you will understand this question… Why the double standard?

          • O. Locke

            learn to read, pal.

            thanks for all the input.

          • harry coleman

            Hey! I want a grand too :)

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Do the work, and You’ll get the money.

          • harry coleman

            Call me crazy but somehow I doubt that.

          • Eric Johnson

            Why?

          • garethWill

            don’t argue with them they are like a man who is pretending to sleep you will never get through to them. they are drunk with delusion of what is right and what is wrong cannot be reasoned with

          • JMW

            Sadly, you’re right. These people just don’t want to change. Until they have an open mind, nothing any of us say will help them.

          • O. Locke

            sadly, you’re both wrong.

            Although it is YOU who doesn’t have the open mind. do you honestly believe that Jews sailed to America and fought with native Americans and some guy buries some tablet with a contemporary religious text on it? what about dinosaur fossils? why didn’t the mormon god know about those?

            This has EVERYTHING to do with having an open mind. YOUR MIND IS CLOSED! Open your mind to the fact the mormon-cult is wrong and is lying to you to line their pockets.

          • JMW

            “Although it is YOU who doesn’t have the open mind.”

            I’ve been through the phase of questioning my beliefs. Trust me, I’m in the right place. So are other Christian religions. They may not have the full truth, but they’re on the right track.

            “do you honestly believe that Jews sailed to America and fought with native Americans and some guy buries some tablet with a contemporary religious text on it?”

            It doesn’t say anything in the scriptures about fighting with native Americans. Unless you’re talking about the Lamanites. They aren’t native Americans. It wasn’t a tablet, it was golden plates. They were gold because gold doesn’t rust. Other than that, yes. I believe that the Bible isn’t the only ancient record around.

            Jews sailing to America sounds a lot less outrageous than what atheists say. Do you honestly believe that this universe just sprang into being? With all the unchanging laws of physics? Do you believe life was a coincidence?

            “what about dinosaur fossils? why didn’t the mormon god know about those?”

            Er… what? You say some pretty stupid things, but this is on a different level. The “mormon god” knows everything. He is the same God that created the dinosaurs. He is the ONLY God. The same God who is worshiped by plenty of other religions. Claiming that there is a difference between the “mormon god” and God is ridiculous.

            “This has EVERYTHING to do with having an open mind. YOUR MIND IS CLOSED! Open your mind to the fact the mormon-cult is wrong and is lying to you to line their pockets.”

            Man! Some profit our prophets and apostles are making! They’ve got it made! Joseph Smith was rejected by his own neighbors and friends, tortured, falsely accused and imprisoned, covered in hot tar with feathers, and eventually murdered.

            If he did this for a profit, he could have said at any time that he had made it up. The persecution would’ve stopped. It IS true, though. Joseph stuck with it to his death. He made no earthly profit.

            Many, many saints refused to deny the gospel. They were killed, and chased out of their homes. Modern prophets on this earth are not here for a profit. True prophets of got never were, and never will be here for earthly gain.

            They’re here to help you, and you reject them. You claim they a liars, fools, and sinners. The scriptures have prophesied that this would come to pass in the latter days.

          • O. Locke

            first and foremost DO NOT use Christianity to advance the cult.

            the mormon cult has nothing to do with other religions in the world. we ned to have that straight in the beginning.

            Now to your comment:

            wow! the delusion is stifling!

            You haven’t questioned your faith otherwise you would know that there is no historical record or proof to validate any of the mormon-cul record. I don’t know any athiests in public or private that say the universe sprang from nothing. I know people who might say it is an interesting scientific question worth answering.

            the idea that some guy buried some golden tablets and then some other dude finds them and god somehow put on these tablets that he hated blacks because of their skin color, that jews sailed across the ocean, and that god is from planet kolob is absolutely preposterous AND YOU KNOW IT!

            you need to recognize reality. the cult has you and their hold is strong.

            from one human to another:

            I hope you can get past your ignorance.

          • JMW

            “first and foremost DO NOT use Christianity to advance the cult.”

            This is what I mean when I say you can’t be reasoned with. We are Christians. That is a fact. stop denying it.

            “the mormon cult has nothing to do with other religions in the world. we ned to have that straight in the beginning.”

            I don’t even need to say anything. That quote disproves itself. Another quote to add to the list of “top 10 most stupid quotes”!

            “wow! the delusion is stifling!”

            Isn’t it? You deny facts, and present hollow lies. You are indeed pretty delusional. Thanks for stating that.

            “You haven’t questioned your faith otherwise you would know that there is no historical record or proof to validate any of the mormon-cul record. I don’t know any athiests in public or private that say the universe sprang from nothing. I know people who might say it is an interesting scientific question worth answering.”

            You’re hilarious. Here’s just one example of archaeological evidence:

            In one of the various books compiled in the Book of Mormon, it talks about an ancient city named Nahom that hadn’t been discoverered until the 20th century. Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon in the early 19th century. Just more proof it’s real.

            “the idea that some guy buried some golden tablets and then some other dude finds them”

            Finding things is normal, especially if you’ve been told where to find them.

            “and god somehow put on these tablets that he hated blacks because of their skin color”

            *facepalms*

            We’ve been over twice already. I think I don’t need to say it again. You can’t be reasoned with.

            “that jews sailed across the ocean”

            Yes, I know, it’s preposterous that they made a boat! Inconceivable! How ridiculous that I actually believe such a thing! How could I possibly believe that they sailed from island to island to reach the American continent?

            “and that god is from planet kolob is absolutely preposterous AND YOU KNOW IT!”

            wow, you actually managed to top your previous stupid statements! I applaud you! What is the planet “Kolob”? That is pretty preposterous. AND I KNOW It!

            “you need to recognize reality. the cult has you and their hold is strong.”

            You can remain in your delusions, and claim that I am the delusional one. I am happy with the truth, you are angry with your lies. Their “hold” on me is knowing the full truth of the restored gospel of Christ is again on the earth.

            “from one human to another:

            I hope you can get past your ignorance.”

            Yes, I hope you can. When someone is so ignorant that they call the informed people ignorant, that’s pretty sad.

          • O. Locke

            Look,

            I could use google to go on and on about mormon-cult doctrine and how it is obviously a ridiculous fiction. I won’t do that. I won’t waste my time or energy trying to debate you on mormon-cult apologists who found some city that no one else was able to find to establish some connection to the kolob-cult. It’s tiring.

            I know you thought you would make some limp-wristed statement about my stupidity and then I’m supposed to get angry about it. I’m not. I don’t mind being stupid if it makes you THINK for one second. Forget about the preposterous beliefs and ideologies of the mormon-cult. When it comes down to it, I don’t think you actually believe any of it. You’re apeing it. Just like everyone else. Your parents practiced, so you do.

            From one human to another: THINK, MAN!

          • JMW

            “I could use google to go on and on about mormon-cult doctrine and how it is obviously a ridiculous fiction. I won’t do that.”

            Are you kidding me? The top websites from a google search is where all your information was coming from. Ridiculous fiction? You are sad. You know nothing about what we actually believe. You know that, but it doesn’t seem to matter to you.

            “I won’t waste my time or energy trying to debate you on mormon-cult apologists who found some city that no one else was able to find to establish some connection to the kolob-cult. It’s tiring.”

            Yes, it is tiring to deal with you. (What’s with all the “kolob” stuff?) I present proof in front of you, and you flat out deny it while throwing insults. That city was first discovered several years after the Book of Mormon was translated. Ancient writings were found in the city that said what it was called. An angel could appear in front of you, and you would dismiss it as a hallucination!

            “I know you thought you would make some limp-wristed statement about my stupidity and then I’m supposed to get angry about it. I’m not.”

            My wrists aren’t limp, but that would be quite the disability!

            Yes, you are angry about it. You’re just saying you’re not because you want to disprove everything I say.

            “I don’t mind being stupid if it makes you THINK for one second”

            You just prove over and over what little you know! I can’t believe that you actually give credit to those “facts” you have! You are so outrageously misinformed!

            “Forget about the preposterous beliefs and ideologies of the mormon-cult. When it comes down to it, I don’t think you actually believe any of it. You’re apeing it. Just like everyone else. Your parents practiced, so you do.”

            When I have been given the Light of Christ, I will not deny it. I do believe in Jesus Christ our Savior, and I do believe that there is life after death. I do believe we have a real purpose on this earth, and I WILL NOT forsake what I know to be true! I know this church is true, and I know it is Christ’s church fully resored!

            “From one human to another: THINK, MAN!”

            Yes, think man! If all the garbage you’ve said was true, why would ANYONE be in this church? It would have never come into existence! Can’t you see? The Lord has finally restored the fulness of the gospel after the great apostasy!

            What do you believe to be true? You supposedly know right from wrong.

          • O. Locke

            THINK!

            re-read your comment but substitute whay YOU said for what a moslem death cultist would say.

            THINK!

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Why is it that you are the only one capable of thinking, and the rest of us are not,no matter our educations?

            CLUE: CAPS ON THE INTERNET IS SCREAMING.

            Why do you need to scream at us?

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Because it’s on Google, that makes it correct?

            What did the Mormons do to you to inspire such visceral, palpable hatred?

          • O. Locke

            I don’t hate the mormon cult.

            the mormon cult hates various minority groupd. all it takes to find out which ones is a short google search.

            search it and weep, pal!

            thanks.

          • Mojo

            ” Isaw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; … and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.”Abraham 3:2-3

            “Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh.” Abraham, Facsimile No. 2, explanations to Fig. 1.

            Ever hear the mormon hymn, “If You Could Hie to Kolob”?
            You don’t seem to know your own religion. But then, having been a mormon myself at one point, I know that critical thinking isn’t exactly encouraged…

          • JMW

            Critical thinking is normal. We don’t discourage it. “If You Could Hie to Kolob” is a great hymn! Here’s the words to it:

            https://www.lds.org/music/library/hymns/if-you-could-hie-to-kolob?lang=eng

          • Eric R. Johnson

            what cult?

            Why would the LDS church be a cult?

            What is a cult?

            Define it. I dare you. G’head.

            Then draw the arrows between the dictionary definition and LDS practice in order to demonstrate this alleged cult-hood.

            What are you so animated against Mormons? What did they do to you? There must be something.

            Come out with it and be honest with us.

            it will feel very good to be honest n place of hateful.

            The spewing of hatred you have done here is appalling, yet somehow it is the Mormons who are wrong.

            What should become of the LDSD church, in your opinion? Give is candor.

          • O. Locke

            I know it’s hard when you’re the member of a hateful bigoted cult.

            the moslems have difficulty too.

            go do a little research on the mormon-cult and you’ll begin to see the truth.

            thanks for allwoing me to clarify, pal.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Since none of is definively provable, how is iot that you can end up -knowing- you, and by nefarious presumptive extension, other christians are correct?

            Why bother? The LDS church members don’t bother you by telling you you are wrong.

            Why should you?

            Where is the fire?

          • Eric R. Johnson

            I don’t care if you have questioned your beliefs.

            Yes I believe in the Atlantic crossing, though filled with jews is a bit of a stretch.

          • garethWill

            to my understandings of it all you just dislike mormons because they have a different worldview to you. and on this planet there are billions others that have different viewpoints to you this does not make them wrong or right. the point i am making we can quantify and understand the universe to the point of the big bang to the evolicany process of the cosmos and to life itself but you can not force people into changing their beliefs. its just not going to happen i am more into the idea of freedom of choice. you can never change what a person believes only they can change and if they don’t want to then it is up to them.

          • O. Locke

            Look, pal.

            Your understandings are wrong. You can believe what you like but the moment mormon cultists move to a state and begin to effect state policy THEN it’s time for the mormon cult to lose its tax exempt status.

            And there is right and wrong. Especially when someone is pawning off their cult doctrine as “the way to salvation”, it’s legal to lie, no one can get angry about a bunch of people who are hoodwinked by the lies of the mormon cult. But you can’t expect that other people will be hoodwinked and not speak up.

            No one is talking about force. Although, force is the currency of the cult. Just look at what the cult does to families when family members reject mormon-cult teaching. Or mountain meadows. Or prop 8. The mormon-cult does share the idea that “might makes right”. With cult doctrine there can be no “freedom of choice” you have the freedom to believe what you are told. THAT’S IT!

            You can believe what you like, when society begins to move forward you can still believe what you like. You just won’t be able to make laws that protect your cult and hamper progress. And you won’t be able to do it on the backs of tax payers with a tax exempt status either.

            Thanks for your input, pal.

          • JMW

            I testify of the truth of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints! I know it is true. The fulness of Christ’s doctrine is restored on the earth once more!

            https://www.lds.org/

          • O. Locke

            just like a moslem.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            You seem pretty self-righteous yourself, just like a muslim.

          • O. Locke

            this coming from the person who decided to post ridiculois and ignorant messages.

            you should be ashamed of yourself.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            To which ” ridiculois(sic) and ignorant messages” are you referring, exactly?

          • O. Locke

            I read your previous posts. I’m now following you.

            thanks for your input, pal.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Ok… I’m glad.

            Nobody follows me.

            Ae you trying to make me a Messiah?

            I’m glad i occupy so very much real estate within your head that you have been driven to such lengths.

            Who am I to you that you should need to follow me?

            Bwahaahahahahhahahahahah

          • Eric Johnson

            WTF are you talking about? Just because you say something is “ignorant a ridiculois (sic)” doesn’t mean you are correct.

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            I figured you out. I could re-post your previous comments but it would be fruitless.

            you’re an uneducated joke.

            thanks for all your input, pal.

          • Mojo

            And I testify of the lack of truth of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints! I know it is false! The fulness of Christ’s doctrine is in the bible, not in Joe and Brigham’s fabrications!

          • Eric R. Johnson

            You do? How?

          • JMW

            It’s good to hear that you believe in the Bible! I testify that the Book of Mormon is true, and is another testament of Jesus Christ.

          • Mojo

            But your testimony means nothing. Nothing at all. You can testify on the Quoran and it would mean as much.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            As much as this is nice for you to contibute, these are not helpfulright now. It gives him a chance to say, “just like a moslem (sic).”

          • Eric R. Johnson

            “Your understandings are wrong. You can believe what you like but the moment mormon cultists move to a state and begin to effect state policy THEN it’s time for the mormon cult to lose its tax exempt status.”

            I agree with this.

            I find it to have been a very bad move for the LDS church to have abandoned long-standing policy to not take sides on certain political issues, local or national.

            That they preached from the pulpit for prop 8, I was appalled, although I was living in a foreign country with Gay Marriage for nearly a decade at that point, so I was unaware of the actions of the Church in the California propition.

            I believe the actions of the Church shoould be looked into by law enforcement, in the form of the FEC, and if they are found to have crossed the line, they should indeed lose their tax exempt status.

            Done.

            Next?

          • O. Locke

            I’m happy you agree.

            now go criticize the mormon cult. since you’re a part of it they might listen. Although I doubt they will. criticize the cult and you might get a formal reprimand.

            thanks for your input and limp-wristed, re-hashed attacks.

            thanks, pal.

          • Mojo

            It’s a dislike for lies, not for them. Mormonism is one of the easiest religions to refute, but they are just as tenatious as evolutionists about their religion.

          • garethWill

            you cannot change a person’s belief by saying they are wrong, that is the basis of belief. you can say all you want and if they believe in some that strong they won’t waver from the belief. it is an exercise in futility to even attempt to change what people believe

          • Mojo

            That’s true. All I can do is present facts, as I did elsewhere here. It’s up to God’s Spirit (and people’s choices) to move a person.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            What facts? You have presented no facts. It’s part of your common schtick. Why hate so much? Is that Christian?

          • Mojo

            I’ve been quoting from your own church leaders and scriptures. I hope you’re just not sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling “LA LA LA LA LA I can’t hear you! I see no evidence! LA LA LA LA LA!”

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Just because certain person who happens to sit in a high chair in the LDS hierarchy writes a book of his opinion does not mean that he has any more or less information than anyone else.

            There’s only what exists in the so-called, “standard works,” of the LDS church, the book of Mormon doctrine and covenants, the Pearl of great price, and the old and new Testaments of the King James version of the Bible.

            My opinion of church Scripture is as valid as his.

            However I have seen very little quoting, and a lot of innuendo disguised as fact.

            I hope your not sticking your fingers in your ears yelling La la la la la in the hopes that I will go away.

            And contributed nothing to the conversation that I know of. Please summarize your quotations into a you sentences if you are able.

            I’m really more interested in why it is that you guys are also unhappy with this particular church, although almost every other Christian sect has exactly the same rules about homosexuality and marriage that I just don’t understand.

            Further do we not have religious freedom in this country?

            Finally how is it that you know that your brand of Christianity is the correct one? At this moment I’m not saying that Mormons are the correct brand.

            So who is? Catholics? Lutherans? and Episcopalians? Southern Baptists? Christian fellowships?

            Unfortunately for you there is no institution that defines who is a Christian and who is not. I’m trying to figure out why you’re so upset about the Mormons, but about no one else?

            Not everybody can have it right, can they? Who has it wrong besides the Mormons. That’s a question you should understand.

          • Mojo

            Wow. You really have a victim mentality. I’m not picking on mormons more than anyone else. If you were a catholic, we’d be talking about catholic doctrines, and you’d ask me why I hate catholics so much, and why I’m picking on catholics. If you were a muslim, it would be the same issue.

            “However I have seen very little quoting, and a lot of innuendo disguised as fact.”
            No innuendo. Not an innuendo kind of guy. I’ve stated plainly what I’ve meant, quoted from your books, your prophets, gave you references. You’ve given me whining about what “brand” is correct. About how I hate mormons. About freedom of religion. You’ve not addressed any of my arguments with counter arguments. You’ve dodged. That’s ok. I’m used to people who have been argued into a corner doing that.
            I hope some day you do what I did, and face those unpleasant facts that the whole of the mormon religion was based on lies by a known charleto, who found a clever way to get money, power, and a lot of sex. Hopefully, you’ll come to know the real Jesus, of the bible. The Jew. The God who created the universe.
            Goodnight, sir.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            No, it isn’t as one cannot argue with success. Why are Mormons so sought after to lead large American organizations?

            No, they aren’t, as the Mormons accept and teach evolution. Been there, done that. Still have the texts and syllabi.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            What lies? It’s religion.

          • Mojo

            Satan’s been a liar from the beginning. The bible says he’s the creator of false doctrine. He did a whopper of a job with Islam and the mormons…

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Perfectly expressed.

            I do wonder why he is so activated against this one institution.

            I expect that his family doesn’t understand their religion either, and were likley unaccepting of him and may have even thrown him out, which is wholly un-Mormon.

            I will challenge any Mormon who claims it is required or good to estrange the family or society from one who doesn’t exactly fit the mold. his family may have been unwilling to change their fundamental beliefs simply because he is gay.

            It is likley that he is disappointed in the church for rejecting him, something I can relate to, asI use cannabis as medicine, although there are gay-friendly wards in Oakland, CA and likley elsewhere, even if his family did not reject him.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Do you believe Noah put all the animals in the world on an Arc?

            What is the difference between the stories?

          • Mojo

            “Do you believe Noah put all the animals in the world on an Arc?”
            No, becasue the bible doesn’t say that. That’s why I wonder if mormons actually read what the bible says. It says that GOD brought the animals, two of every kind.
            “What is the difference between the stories?” We have a lot of evidence for a world wide flood. The evidence is everywhere you turn. There’s no evidence at all for any of the mormon claims.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            What did Naoah do in the Bible, then, and why has there been a search for the arc? (Can’t wait to hear this one spun off.)

          • Mojo

            Well let’s look at what the bible says, shall we?

            9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

            11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.

            13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14 Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch. 15 And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16 Youshall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks. 17 And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die. 18 But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall go into the ark—you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you. 19 And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. 20 Of the birds after their kind, of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive. 21 And you shall take for yourself of all food that is eaten, and you shall gather it to yourself; and it shall be food for you and for them.”

            22 Thus Noah did; according to all that God commanded him, so he did.”

            That’s what he did.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            How is that any different than the crossing of the Atlantic in a similar craft with the finger of God protecting you?

          • Mojo

            It’s different because we can see what the world wide flood did to the world. We can’t find one shred of evidence for anything the book of mormon speaks of.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Have you excavated in and around Palmyra, NY? No, you haven’t.

            Anywhere in Central or Northern South America, where it is most likely that the BoM peoples lived?

            What possessions of Joseph Smith’s do you think were stolen, destroyed or misappropriated when the group was driven, violently, out of NY, OH, IL & MO?

          • Eric Johnson

            And your point is? Is Noah the onlymone who received special instructions or communications with God?

          • Eric R. Johnson

            After 20 years of life in Europe, my most constant remarks on which I have been evaluated have mentioned my very open mind.

            I speak 2 foreign languages,which means I was not brought up in a LDS-only or primarily LDS community.

            Too bad for you that you will never be able to open your mind that far, as you are too busy trying to prove the LDS church and Mormons are somehow inferior to you.

            How self-righteous ad sanctimonious of you.

          • Mojo

            Actually, the mormons quietly swept that one under the rug a few years ago. It was either 2007 or 2008 that the newest version of the BoM came out, omitting those references. DNA evidence is not in their favor.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            I used my dad’s Book of Mormon in College in the 80s, the one he grew up with, pre-18, 35 years before I went to college.

            It was exactly the same BoM as the one many college kids bought and that was taught in class.

            Also the same BoM as in the late 90s in the Netherlands.

            What references were taken out, exactly?

            So Keep in mind in have a 70 year old BoM to compare any alleged changes.

          • Mojo

            For one, on the online version of the BoM, The words “skin of blackness” were removed from the introductory summary in 2 Nephi, Chapter 5, in describing the “curse” God
            put on disbelieving Lamanites.

            In Mormon, Chapter 5, the heading changes from calling Lamanites “a dark, filthy, and loathsome people” to “because of their unbelief, the Lamanites will be scattered, and the Spirit will cease to strive with them.” In both cases, the text itself remains unchanged.

            How about 2 Nephi 30:6 (pre 1981): “…their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.” And then POST 1981: “and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and a delightsome people.”

            Just for kicks, let’s see what some past Mormon Presidents have said concerning this, shall we?:”You may inquire of the intelligent of the world whether they can tell why the aborigines of this country are dark, loathsome, ignorant, and sunken into the depths of degradation …When the Lord has a people, he makes covenants with them and gives unto them promises: then, if they transgress his law, change his ordinances, and break his covenants he has made with them, he will put a mark upon them, as in the case of the Lamanites and other portions of the house of Israel; but by-and-by they will become a white and delightsome people” (Journal of Discourses 7:336).

            Or how about this one: Spencer Kimball utilized 2 Nephi 30:6 when he stated how the Indians “are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.” He said, “The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation” (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3). October 1960 LDS Church Conference.

            A line from the 1981 the introduction page that reads: “…all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians” has been changed in the 2006 version to say: “…all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians.” I guess that DNA evidence saying that American Indians have no relation to Jews was pretty damning.

            Yours is only 70 years old? I got you beat by 26.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            When? Why would they not have collected old BoM’s then? e are all like little lemmings, according to you.

            I was taught in class at BYU about the skin of blackness, but it is not the skin of any “black,” person today, except for those people in costume in Holland at Christmas playing “Zwarte Piet.” (Google it.)

            Why is it that God in your vision is all powerful,but He could not have done any of the things written about in the BoM?

          • garethWill

            can i just say that native americans share 35% of their genome with europeans, eurasians and the middle east. central and south americans have more polynesian asiatic genome mix. the americas have had a lot of peoples over millennia migrating there as humans where not there to begin with. but what i said before religion is about belief and nothing else

          • JMW

            The church has given a great statement on DNA evidence. Here’s the link:

            https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Yes, Satan is doing his best to keep people from knowing how hateful anti-Mormons like these trolls are.

          • O. Locke

            it isn’t that a person can’t be reasoned with.

            the problem is that YOU as a mormon-cult adherent can’t for the life of you figure out why people won’t purchase the idea that some guy found a stone, put it in a hat, and was able to read golden tablets.

            SHAME ON YOU for trying to comfort yourself and other cult adherents with lies!

          • JMW

            “it isn’t that a person can’t be reasoned with.”

            Ever met a fanboy? Console wars rage on for so long, because a fanboy will never admit that another gaming console is good.

            There lots of people that just can’t be reasoned with, please don’t just be another one of them.

            “the problem is that YOU as a mormon-cult adherent can’t for the life of you figure out why people won’t purchase the idea that some guy found a stone, put it in a hat, and was able to read golden tablets.”

            No, in actuality, the problem is you. More specifically, your actions. You actually believe all the garbage about what the internet says we “believe”. Then you go around spreading those lies. Joseph Smith didn’t put a stone in a hat to translate. I hope you will start checking the reliability of your sources.

            “SHAME ON YOU for trying to comfort yourself and other cult adherents with lies!”

            The greater the good, the greater the evil to rise against it.

            You attempt to put shame on our “lies”, by using the lies Satan has so effectively spread. The only verbal weapon that will truly win in the end is the sword of truth. Be warned, you do not have that sword.

            You have demonstrated that Satan is working through you and others like you, to bring down the restored gospel. Satan is trying as hard as he possibly can, but you are stronger than him. Don’t let him use you!

            I know are undoubtedly offended that I said Satan is working through you, and I’m sorry, but it’s true. He has done his best to work through tons of people. He was never given a body of flesh and blood, and he hates everyone that has one. He wants to drag you down into the gulfs of misery.

            Men are that they might have joy. Is there any joy in fighting against a gospel that preaches of nothing but? We will all have trials, but we will be eternally happy if we truly do our best to follow Christ.

          • O. Locke

            you mormon cult apologists are all the same.

            you can’t debate the point so you try to end discussion with name calling and bigotry.

            SHAME!

            I’m not offended. Christians say the same thing about the mormon-cult. Satan is actually working THROUGH YOU! you might not like those facts but then you need to actually crack the bible and not that psychotic “add-on”, “the book of mormon-cult”.

            just so you know the mormon cult follows joey smith. live with the facts, pal.

            From one human to another:

            I hope you can find a way to get through the delusion and see the truth.

          • JMW

            “you can’t debate the point so you try to end discussion with name calling and bigotry.”

            Humor me. Who has been screaming “SHAME”, and throwing insults in every post? Any insults I’ve given you have been in provocation by you. If you can talk in a civilized manner, people might take you more seriously.

            “SHAME!”

            See what I mean?

            “I’m not offended.”

            Good.

            “Christians say the same thing about the mormon-cult.”

            Then they are hypocrites. We have the restored gospel, and we are labelled as sinners by others trying to find the truth. What does that tell you about Satan’s hold on the world?

            “Satan is actually working THROUGH YOU!”

            What did you say? You’re not shouting enough!

            That’s just a lie Satan wants you to believe, so that you won’t ever actually investigate the gospel. All you’re “facts” have been outrageous lies.

            “you might not like those facts but then you need to actually crack the bible and not that psychotic “add-on”, “the book of mormon-cult”.”

            So… let me get this straight.

            I can’t quote the Bible? Plus, the Book of Mormon isn’t an “add-on”, it’s another record.

            What’s more, if you call the Book of Mormon psychotic, then I really don’t want to see what you call normal. (Btw, it’s called the Book of Mormon because all the books in it were collected and put in by an ancient historian named Mormon.)

            “just so you know the mormon cult follows joey smith. live with the facts, pal.”

            Though he goes by Joseph, yup. He was the first true prophet to come after the apostasy. We follow God, through His prophets.

            “From one human to another:

            I hope you can find a way to get through the delusion and see the truth.”

            After all the lies and insults you throw in my face, I’m surprised you admit I’m human.

            I really hope you will eventually realize just how obviously wrong you are. I’ve disproved each and every one of your “facts”. Why must you persist in trying to do the impossible? (That’s winning against God, btw.)

          • O. Locke

            THINK, MAN!

            I can’t prove to you that you have a jack-in the box under the hood of your car that makes it move. Just like I can’t prove the mormon-cult’s claims that joseph smith found a bunch of golden tablets, spoke with an angel, jews sailed to the Americas 2000 years ago, and that god never knew about dinosaur fossils.

            be reasonable. when the facts are laid bare without the flowery phrases you begin to see how ridiculous it all really is.

            THINK!

          • JMW

            “THINK, MAN!”

            You know, if we stop thinking, we become brain-dead. I’m thinking.

            “I can’t prove to you that you have a jack-in the box under the hood of your car that makes it move.”

            Quite true.

            “Just like I can’t prove the mormon-cult’s claims that joseph smith found
            a bunch of golden tablets, spoke with an angel, jews sailed to the Americas 2000 years ago, …”

            I can’t prove to you that it’s true, but here’s how I know.

            I’ve felt confirmation from the Lord when I was baptized, and when I’ve read the scriptures. If you sincerely ask if the Book of Mormon is true, God has promised that He will confirm it to you.

            “…and that god never knew about dinosaur fossils.”

            He’s always known.

            “be reasonable. when the facts are laid bare without the flowery phrases you begin to see how ridiculous it all really is.”

            I know that God lives. That isn’t ridiculous.

          • O. Locke

            If you were thinking you wouldn’t be so hell bent on proving to yourself that you actually believe what you’re writing.

            immersion in water doesn’t do or mean anything. there is no “mysterious being speaking to your soul”, it all sounds ridiculous and hackneyed when you repeat it to yourself, doesn’t it?

            I was once where you are. THINK.

            you can get past it.

          • JMW

            I know our Heavenly Father lives! He sent His only begotten son, Jesus Christ, do suffer and die for our sins! I know we have a purpose on this earth! I know that the Great Plan of Salvation is real!

            https://www.lds.org/topics/plan-of-salvation

            Baptism by immersion is real and sacred. Here is an explanation:

            Think about baptism. We put on white clothes, which represent purity.Then we enter the water, which represents the washing away of our sins through the Atonement.
            After the words of the ordinance are spoken, we are immersed in the water. Going under the water imitates the death and burial of Jesus Christ, and it also represents the death of the natural man within us. Being raised again from the water imitates the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and it also represents being born again as disciples of Christ under covenant to follow Him.

            (source: https://www.lds.org/new-era/2007/02/the-simplicity-of-symbols?lang=eng)

            You may call it ridiculous and hackneyed, but I will never deny Christ!

          • O. Locke

            THINK, Man!

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Stop screaming, man. People can only stand so much of idiocy like that.

            What are you so angry about?

          • O. Locke

            do you really believe that some guy found some golden plates and translated them with an angel. or that the angel spoke in 17th century english.

            I know you don’t believe that and I wouldn’t expect anyone to believe that creepy, cultish idea.

            thanks for allowing me to clarify, pal.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Many sects use full immersion.

            Did you see the Fox TV program from this season called utopia?

            A couple of the participants are Christian ministers, and they showed at least one full immersion baptism, which was no LDS baptism.

            Where is your criticism?

          • Eric R. Johnson

            “If I were thinking?”
            Why do you need to cast debate opponents as in some way inferior to you?

            Why do you need to scream?

          • O. Locke

            it is precisley BECAUSE people are equals that I hold them to a particular standard.

            people should think.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Do you?

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            It is hard to deal with the facts. mormon cult doctrine and practices make it difficult to accept the truth but youre going to have to learn to live with it.

            thanks for your input, pal

          • Eric R. Johnson

            It is truly fun to eviscerate people like you truly deserving of the term troll. You’re thrashing about in every direction trying to poke holes in stuff you clearly don’t understand.

            It’s fun to hit Las Vegas like this and be able to make you look so bad.

            You please tell me specifically what practices and doctrine you refer to? It is unclear what your complaint is and you refuse to become specific: A classic hallmark of a troll.

            I’m more than happy to sit here and make you look like a fool, but I need to take A half hour break and go get a hamburger.

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            you gotta love when the mormon cult apologist begins labeling and asking you why their cult is in fact a cult.

            you should be ashamed of yourself, pal.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Why should I know my faith is an alleged Cult? According to you, I am brainwashed. I was very foolish to have spent 4 years at BYU-Hawaii 30 years ago. I got the highest quality education, particularly in my own faith, as there were weekly devotional addresses by LDS big Whigs or authors, or others as well as 14 credit hours of academic work on the subject of the LDS scripture, all at the lowest price, placed in the most beautiful environment one could imagine, just up from where they filmed lost, and just down from the best surfing in the world.

            Except for the $4 six pack of beer, I could not have been in a cooler place. Not Harvard(brrr), Not Stanford, Not USCD (popular at the time) or UC Berkeley(3 hours from home on a single road.)

            Nope, BYU-Hawaii in the mid-eighties. Sucks to be you, huh?

          • Eric R. Johnson

            About what? I truly know not what you mean, though I’ve been hearing it all my life, concerning the LDS Church.
            Apologist?
            Why do you have to cast your debate opponent as being somehow inferior to you, without offering any evidence to either that point, nor defining what a cult is. I begin to think you only know the word from some talking points, but you don’t have any idea what one is, nor can you use it in a sentence were it is not a predicate adjective.

            Dry defining the noun for once, coward.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            what facts?

          • Eric R. Johnson

            OK, you don’t.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Why do you need to scream?

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Assumes facts not in evidence.

          • O. Locke

            sure, pal.

            you can have the last word on that.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Do not get in my face and scream using that red, spitting face you’ve got going at this point.

            Then tell me where you were, how you know where I am, while first defining where I am.

            The less you answer the more I shred you un this discussion.

            People are hysterically laughing at the thrashing you are getting here, pal. (to me pal is a TV color system in Europe, anyway.)

          • Eric R. Johnson

            what do you know of what I believe? FYI, you cannot out Mormon me, but I still have a 3500 dollar coffee machine.

            To which I will now walk and have it make me a delicious latte.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Again, why must you start by screaming. Clearly you have stopped thinking and your brain has died. Thank you for the heads up.

            No, you cannot prove a negative. It is not just in religious affairs that this is the case.

            What is a cult? You have steadfastly refused to define a word you seem not to understand.

            Explain to us exactly what a cult is and how the LDS church fulfills said criteria.

            Otherwise STFU.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Clearly, if youhave to star and end each of your pieces by screaming “THINK!!!,” you clearly have nothing to say on the subject.

            You are here with it seems to me several Mormon Scolars, and if you had real evidence of culthood, here and now would be the place.

            But you don’t, so you scream.

            As soon as you reference the Nazis, you will; have lost the argument completely according to Godwin’s Law. (google it if you haven’t heard of it, which you likley haven’t as you spend way too much time hating Mormons.

            What would you like to do with us? Re-educate us, which means brainwashing to your liking?

            Tell us, what we should do…. Find a place in Liberia and move there, never to bother you again?

            Did they buy a piece of property you wanted?

            I cannot for the life of me understand why you are so angry and upset with Mormons and mormonism.

            Can you explain it?

          • O. Locke

            go read the book of mormon cult.

            then come back and talk to me.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            The book of mormon cult? I don’t find a book with that title.

            You are un able to talk. You are able to scream talking points, like a baby demanding a diaper change, but you are unable to speak on this or likely any subject.

            What do you do for a living, Pal?

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            go find the rdiculous text written by the ‘profit’ joseph (I liked the ladies) smith. it is a quite obvious fraud and mormon cultists should be ashamed they believe it.

            thanks for your questions, pal.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            where is your campaign against the rest of the Christian myths?

            The LDS church too successful for you?

            Are you jealous that people follow good, rather than your raging, hateful nonsense?

          • O. Locke

            the mormon cult is successful at lying.

            thanks for pointing that out to me.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            About what is the LDS Church lying?

            Be very specific, if you are able.

            Otherwise you make yourself look worse and worse, every time I ask you for facts and explanations, and you provide nothing but screamed ad hominem.

            That is not talking nor debating, nor even proving a point.

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            I don’t owe you any explanations. asking for explanations when you live int he U.S. and have access to books and the internet should make you feel ashamed of yourself AND the mormon-cult for preventing you from learning the most elementary truths about joseph smith.

            But here are a few: monson talks to go? god hated the blacks til 78’? baptism of the dead. plural marriage. shunning.

            just to name a few. I could go into the absolutely ridiculous mormon cult beliefs but it isn’t worth it.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            What is a cult? How exactly is the LDS church a Cult, I’m so sick of this, as I’ve been hearing it all of my life.

            Yet nobody can or will,mostly will, define cult and show with arrows how exactly the LDS church is a cult.

            You can’t or simply won’t, as you seem more interested in calling people names in a spirit of vicious vitriol.

          • O. Locke

            joseph smith? god hating blacks til 78? killing innocent women and children? prop 8?

            mormon-cult

          • Eric R. Johnson

            What was the USA like until 1978?

            What was Spencer Kimball’s, someone I met when I was 15 1/2, response when he conetemplated the question that he had a definite missionary task assigned from God… Why should that be limited to nice White places like Europe and South Africa, and Asian places, but not to predominatly Black areas?

            His answer was to advance the church to the then current societal standards.

            Given how much the church had from violent idiots who tarred-and-feathered Smith, and drove the group from New York, to Ohio, to Illinois, to Missouri and finally 1000 miles west over a huge set of mountains, I hardlyu think anyione from that set of progenitors (you) has any business judging people doing exactly what the founders of the origunal 13 colonies did…Homestead an (ostensibly,or not by us yet) unused piece of land to practice their religious beliefs.

            No different than Mass, Pennsylvania, Virginia etcetera.

            What skin is it off your nose that they exist?

          • O. Locke

            you have it wrong, pal.

            the mormon cult was FOUNDED on racial hatred and bigotry. you can use the “well everyone was doing it” defense if you like but it’s kinda lame.

            I know it’s hard but you’re going to have to learn to live with the facts. the only violence I see comes from the mormon cult.

            the mormon cult wants to deny people’s right and they should be ashamed of themselves.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Firstly, I’m not your pal. That is a term of endearment reserved exclusively for my parents, Who have been calling me that for 50 years. My name is Eric. You may address me as Mr. Johnson.

            Will you please please define the term called and draw the arrows showing how the LDS church is a cult.

            If you cannot do so I invite you to shut up.

            You have provided no facts for me to live with, So you have got to, “change my life,” with any information at all.

            Clue: name-calling is not equal to imparting information.

            Which rights does the LDS church want to deny? Be very specific here, if you can and dare.

            Why dare? The one thing you have shown yourself to be in this discussion is a coward.

          • O. Locke

            look, buddy.

            that is one of the great things about your cult. I don’t have to show you the facts. you should go find them. you should be ashamed that someone can tell you things about your cult that you never knew.

            go ask your elder about the teachings of brigham young. or about joseph smith. open racists that god didn’t tell he would be changing his mind about the basic beliefs of their cult.

            the mormon cult is bigoted and hateful. Women need to be given the same rights as men. why can women not hold the priesthood.

            SHAME ON YOU FOR SUPPORTING THE SUBJUGATION OF WOMEN!

          • Eric R. Johnson

            Racial hatred and bigotry? Perhaps. But was it any different then the standard racial hatred and bigotry which existed up until the Civil War, the civil rights fear of the 1960s?

            Did Southern Baptists support or eschew,” separate but equal,” and Jim Crow?

            What is the South of the United States like today? Where is the Mormon church located? Where are most of the Mormons in United States? Actually there are more outside the United States than in the United States, due to very successful missionary work all over the world.

            What have you done to make the world better place?

            Be extremely specific. Being an Internet troll with an agenda against a certain group or institution does not make the world a better place.

            Perhaps you could spend some time volunteering at your local elementary school. That way you would actually be able to help rather than just sitting here spewing lies and hatred in the way that you do.

            Have you ever read your own posts?

            If not, you should. You look so bad as to be indescribable without having this post removed.

          • O. Locke

            look, pal.

            the mormon cult still practices hatred and bigotry. you might not like those facts but your going to have to learn to live with them.

            thanks for allowing me to clarify my position on the mormon cult.

            take it easy, pal.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            When and where exactly did the LDS Church Kill innocent women and children?

            Prop 8? I do eschew the church for s[peakiong about this in church meetings.

            But people don’t have the right to take a position which is clearly in line with their long-standing beliefs?

            In other words You think Mormons are Horrible because they opposed gay marriage?

            Why do you not call all the other churches which oppose gay marriage, and the states which don’t recognize gay marriage cults and other ad hominem?

            The Catholic Church was good with it?

            Catholic church a Cult?

            Orthodox Church even worse against gays and gay marriage than the catholic church.

            Why is the LDS church the only one you are angry with?

          • O. Locke

            this is the problem with mormon-cult apologists.

            it’s always one sided. mormon-cult apologists never know the history of their cult.

            go look it up.

          • Mojo

            Ok, but I know it’s false, because I used to be a part of it. And i testify THAT in the name of the actual Jesus Christ of the bible, not Joseph Smith’s version of Jesus Christ.

          • Eric R. Johnson

            No difference.

          • JMW

            I’m sorry that you’ve left the church. Jesus Christ is the same in the Book of Mormon and in the Bible.

            https://www.lds.org/bible-videos/videos/unity-of-the-faith?lang=eng

          • Mojo

            In the BIble, he’s God. In the BoM, he’s our spirit brother. That’s not the same guy.

          • Mojo

            I suppose I should correct what I said. The Jesus of the D and C and Pear of Great Price and teh Jesus of the Bible are two different guys. Since you guys derive most of your actual doctrine from those two books, I should refer to those…

          • Beatrice

            JMW. Your Mormon’ s Jesus is not the same as in the Bible. You know Muslims have their Jesus too. I too grew up around the Mormon people and I was told to pray and ask then I will find that Mormon book is true. I too can testify in the name of my Mighty living GOD, Lord Jesus Christ, I was shown while I was taking a nap, I can testify that JS was not His prophet.
            I believed that Muhammad and Joseph Smith encountered with entities beyond human beings, but not from true living GOD. These 2 men and many who claimed to be prophets of GOD are not from GOD but SATAN. Both had multiple wives. JS had about 38 wives and among them were children and others’ men’ wives. JS boasted that he did more work than Jesus to keep a Church together. Mormon church history, vol. 6, p. 408-409.

        • Eric R. Johnson

          Please be specific with your charges, sir. exactly why is the LDS Church a cult? And who are you to be deciding that is the case? What credentials do you bring to the table to be able to make such a determination.

    • John Phillip Cunningham

      all religions are cults google it and see. a cult is any religion, or group involved in lieing and brainwashing, which they
      all do

      • Eric R. Johnson

        Be specific. What Mormon is brainwashing whom? The LDS church is a Democratic institution. With unpaid clergy.

    • Eric R. Johnson

      Love it… nothing new here. hatred right at the beginning. Define cult. Why is the LDS church a cult? Be specific, if you can, as you likley know nothing which is correct about the LDS church.

      • Mojo

        So if someone dissagrees with you, it’s hate? You sound like the homosexuals. If you dare not accept their lifestyle, it’s ‘hate”. They can’t argue for their lifestyle, so they fling that word. Sounds like you’ve learned that lesson from them.

  • garethWill

    people tend to think what they believe is true and scratch the surface of many christian denominations and sects there is hidden homophobia just under the surface. also exstream mormon polygamist sects who i may add are not part of the LDS church or community of christ are just as restrictive and crazy as the Independent fundamental Baptists (IBF). but very little about the abuse of women in those groups, mainly what i am saying it is a disparotional to hate one group for thing that the others groups do openly

  • Charles McPherson

    I think the problem is that Mormons as a group make a show of ‘lordly tolerance’ of others, but are most interested in the in-group. This is fine; it’s one of the bases of human psychology and sociology. However, Mormons tend to be inhospitable to those outside their faith. I’m a Catholic who has lived in Utah for about five years now. I have received much more politeness, respect and hospitable treatment from the people in the mosque up the block from my apartment than I have from any Mormon in Utah. with the possible exception of my girlfriend’s parents. The problem is that Mormons are very heavily attached to this idea of ‘oppressed persecuted outgroup’ that they fail to be an ecumenical institution. They bandy this idea of oppression to anybody who will listen, blithely forgetful of the fact that the LDS church owns the state of Utah and has strong holdings in Idaho, Wyoming and Arizona. Moreover, Utah Mormons collectively seem to like it better that way. They don’t want diversity of thought and are not terribly intellectually inclined if the intellectual outcome does not serve them. They lack the Jewish and Muslim penchant for serious scholarship or the Catholic emphasis on education as a route out of poverty. If this is the case, fine. But I for one cannot wait to finish my degree and get out of this desolate inbred wasteland with its regressive and insular thinking, vanity and false cheeriness.

  • Eric Clermont Player

    Interesting the amount of hate that pops up on this discussion about how Mormons are hated.

  • Natalie M Schmidt

    Being an inactive member of the LDS church, and a former resident of Salt Lake City, UT, I have some strong feelings about this topic.
    I truly love the LDS church and it’s members. They well intentioned kind hearted people. As with any religion, there is the good and there is the bad.
    The bad:
    The excuse that most people used to be a racist to justify members of African decent being unable to hold the priesthood. The problem with this justification is that most people were not racist until 1978. The LDS church really was about 20 years behind everyone else. Having been an active member of the church in the past, I still felt the taint of racism at church. Enough that is bothered me, and led me to have serious doubts about the infallibility of the church’s doctrines. Claiming everyone else was racist too really does not make it ok. To it’s credit, the LDS church finally acknowledged it’s racist past, but to it’s discredit no apology was offered.
    Women are unable to hold the priesthood. I can’t stomach all the excuses I’ve heard for this patriarchal garbage. My favorite (by favorite I mean least favorite) was used in this thread. If a woman is raising kids, she would become overwhelmed by family duties and church duties. I feel this alone implies several things. The first, and most alarming to me is that men should not be held as accountable as women in the raising of children. The second is that women are weaker than men, and that is why men are able to have a career, raise a family and uphold priesthood duties. It’s absurd. I saw this blatant sexism with the young men’s and young women’s meetings. The girls would sometimes make something for the boys and serve it to them, but the boys never returned the favor. My then 12 year old son told me it make him uncomfortable, and he wanted to make something for the girls. When he brought this up at his meeting, one of the grown men that is there to teach these boys how to be men scoffed at him, and laughed it off.
    The homophobia is out of control. I could write a novella on this alone. If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t be in one. You don’t have to spend millions of dollars and use platforms like General Conference to make sure everyone knows the LDS church still officially views being homosexual as a sin. That is why so many members don’t live their personal truth on many levels. There is so much judgement. I don’t feel this behavior is very Christlike. I have compassion for active members, because I know they are trying to do what they feel is right for their families. So is everyone else, including the GLBT.

    The idea that the LDS doctrine is the only way to truth and salvation was always hard for me to stomach. I was a convert, and I felt for the church to teach that somehow gives it’s members that they are superior because they have the truth. Along with being the only “true church” is the persecution complex. I often heard that because we have the truth, we are persecuted as Jesus was persecuted. I wonder if Jehovas Witnesses and Quakers feel the same way. Many denominations have been persecuted, and I’m pretty sure they can’t all have the absolute truth. Also, for a group that feels it has been persecuted, they sure are willing to infringe on others rights.

    I could write negatives all day, but I will say there is a lot of love. I will always have love for the LDS church, even if it doesn’t have love for me. I appreciate their dedication to family, helping the needy and their faith in their doctrine. I love my new church; I also love and appreciate my old church.

    • Alys B. Cohen-Sacred Blood Aut

      People being unable to hold priesthood based on race is racism. Women being unable to due to sex is sexism. Anyone who wants to claim racism didn’t exist until 1978 is racist and ignoring history.

      It’s hard to find a lot of love in any church that oppresses people for sex and sexuality and that believes it has the right to baptize dead people of other faiths. The love for people who follow the same path is conditional love.

  • Mason Witt

    Look. I’m just a kid. But, I could school any of you who think my religion is a cult. I truly feel sorry for you. In Moroni chapter 10 verses three and four it reads
    3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

    4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
    Moroni 10:3-4

    I would invite you to read the Book of Mormon before judging us. And pray about it. Also if any of you would like to know why you are wrong about why you think the LDS church is a cult feel free to respond.

    • harry coleman

      Look kid nobody believes the book of moron except morons.I’ve read that book of crap.It’s just that…crap.

      • Mason Witt

        What part of the Book Of Mormon is crap? Name a specific part.

        • harry coleman

          Specifically…all of it…from cover to cover.

          • JMW

            I;m sorry you feel that way. I, for one, know the Book of Mormon is true. It is another testament of Jesus Christ.

          • harry coleman

            Watch the ex mormon files on tv 20…friday nights at 8…If you’re brave enough.Be sure you’re alone so you don’t get kicked out of the house.I’m sure you won’t.

          • harry coleman

            The Bible says “If we or any other man or angel preaches anothe gospel let him be acursed.”

  • harry coleman

    Mormon doctrine is a lie out of the pit of hell.Most Mormons don’t even know the doctrine of the cult they swear is the only true religion.Gordon Hinckley lied in a court of law during the Mark Hoffman trial and again on Larry King live.He was a false profet and a liar…like most prophets of cults.Joseph Smith was a thief and womanizer.Why would anyone follow such losers? Mormons won’t confront the lies of they’re leaders or the doctrine.

  • John Phillip Cunningham

    Anger and rejection is the first part of healing, then remorse….. I know because i’ve been through it.
    I hurts which is far better then hurting others, some will find that out, others will dwell in the past and never get past it., because of the pain involved.
    I cried just about ever day for two or more years and i did not even accept it,
    i can’t imagain the pain of those who do or did. the trail of tears is a long road.
    love always John cunningham aurora co.

  • Paul Lang

    the mormon-cult is a hateful bigoted organization that engages in campaigns of hatred against minorities. this is the the most hilarious comment in this whole blog lmao its hilariously false considering the enormous large amounts of minoritys that belong to the church and follow the churches teachings i am proud to lds and i would gladly die as one as any other person who is as dedicated to there own religion

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