The Deacon's Bench

The Deacon's Bench


Catholic Vote’s new ad: “We are Americans”

posted by jmcgee

That’s the final emphatic line of this new ad from CatholicVote.org. It’s not nearly as effective as the ads they produced for the’08 election, and I find a lot of this frankly over-the-top. But it certainly makes its point. Take a look.



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Henrietta22

posted September 10, 2010 at 2:42 pm


Wow! Through the eyes of the Catholic Republicans. The most sincere were Roosevelt and Martin L. King. Although I voted for Reagan twice I think once should have been enough. I don’t like President Obama’s face, etc. blanked out, I find that very disrespectful and a poor image left with my family of the Roman Catholics public voice.



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Panthera

posted September 10, 2010 at 6:43 pm


Well, that was certainly interesting.
I should imagine this will upset at least as many non-liberal Catholics as it has impressed me with the ability to see the trees and not the forest in today’s American Christian world.
Oh, and I do believe Bush-the-lesser also got the blurred chin treatment. There are actually some Catholics who really don’t approve of torture, illegal wars and the death penalty. They just aren’t often heard from in American politics.



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Civitas Occiduus

posted September 10, 2010 at 8:14 pm


I desperately want to buy-in to this video. I want to be moved and uplifted and filled with hope. I want to come away from this video desperate to exercise the rights and responsibilities of an American citizen with a conscience informed by my Catholic faith.
But what am I to do with my vote? Am I to re-elect the Democrats, who seem so badly to want to save us but who so clearly couldn’t find their way out of a wet paperbag in a bright room with a GPS? Am I to elect the Republicans, who insanely want to try the same things that failed to begin with a second, third, and fourth time on the outside chance that they might work now? Am I to hope for a third party?
This video worships a God other than the one of St. Paul, of St. Augustine, of St. Benedict, of Mother Theresa… etc. This video claims that God will reward us in the temporal world if we but trust in Him, that “with His grace” we can “rebuild America.” That is false. God desires our love in this life so that we can be with Him in the next, not so that we can be prosperous in this one.
America, like Athens, like Rome, like Great Britain, and like all other kingdoms and states before us, is the City of Man. Heaven is the City of God. There’s nothing wrong with trying to make the City of Man tolerable, but to believe that we can somehow vote ourselves to prosperity, vote ourselves out of 10% unemployment, vote ourselves out of Pro-Abortion, vote ourselves out of corruption, vote ourselves into the City of God… that is idolotry, that is false, and that is arguably heretical.
Not a single politician of either major party wants to admit that the reason we are falling is because we are no longer producing wealth; we are only managing it and arguing about how to manage it. Tax cuts, Wall Street reform, stimulus packages, healthcare reform, … these are red-herring symptoms of the deeper problems that everyone ignores: agriculture declines, industry & manufacturing move away, and the only “good path” for a young man or woman is college or poverty. Whatever happened to graduating high school and going to work in the local factory if you just weren’t intellectually crafted for college? We have permitted a “prosperous” America to pass away, and not because we worship the “false God of government,” but because we’ve made some pretty stupid economic decisions.
Welcome to the “Crisis of the Third Century: Part II” everybody. Might I recommend Saint Augustine’s “City of God”? Something tells me the folks at CatholicVote haven’t read it.



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Panthera

posted September 10, 2010 at 8:41 pm


Civitas Occiduus said:
Not a single politician of either major party wants to admit that the reason we are falling is because we are no longer producing wealth; we are only managing it and arguing about how to manage it.
end quote
So true!
Of course, when I said that value addition was the essential element of all true capitalist profit, I got my … handed to me…with a …well, anyway, they called me a fascist Marxist socialist here. Let’s hope folks have learned a few things since then because you are absolutely right.
The trouble, as I see it, is that we have gone off the deep end. Either you are anti-choice and anti-gay rights (including incest and rape, excluding any right for gays at all, even the watered down anti-hate crimes) or you are a son of Satan.
With no room in between.
Clearly, the Republicans have no workable solutions to a problem which is only amenable to Keynesian solutions at this point.
But that doesn’t mean I’m happy with the Democrats…



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Civitas Occiduus

posted September 10, 2010 at 9:48 pm


Panthera,
You and I don’t see eye-to-eye on a few things and your frequent reference to the “culture wars” is starting to get repetitive (you didn’t mention them directly this time, though, lol), but I think you get a really hard time around here and it’s not fair. You certainly have your flaws, and you may protest too much at times, but then, don’t we all?
Be assured that I am a Catholic who looks forward to reading your comments and getting your perspective, even though I don’t always agree with you. I value someone that knows the meaning of “ad hominem” and can spot when other people are using it. I admire your love of good books, your hatred of TV, and when you mention your rural home, I picture a goofy person in a floppy hat working in their garden — someone like me (my tomatos died in the heat this year, sigh).
You’re not a socialist, a communist, a fascist, or any other -ism from what I can see. You’re a human being with a different perspective that just wants acceptance and wants to know you’re loved. I love you and I pray for you and I hope you can say the same of me. Heck, I even love your frequent antagonists; I just wish they could grow a little.
If you do subscribe to an -ism of some kind, I bet you’re like me; you’re probably a distributist! Check it out, it’s good thought-provoking material if nothing else:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributivism
And keep blogging. Some people are reading and smiling your way, even as others are glaring. I just think everyone needs to remember we’re in a conversation here on the Deacon’s Bench and not in a shouting match, however loud we shout…



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Mary

posted September 11, 2010 at 9:08 am


America was founded on God…’In God We Trust’..There is only ONE God and His Son Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior….The atheist has managed to take prayer out of our schools..Now the Mosque close to 9/11….If people had feelings for Americans’ they would put it somewhere else…There are many Mosques’ in America, without complaint from Americans….If Rauf had sympathy for the American Families that lost loved ones’,but He just seems determined to have HIS way, whether we like it or not…Reminds me of Obama care that was shoved down Americans’ throats, behind closed doors…..What has happened to ‘We The People’..?



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ron chandonia

posted September 11, 2010 at 11:01 am


The temptation–nearly overwhelming–is to dismiss the very notion of a “political path” of charity, as Pope Benedict calls it. When we look at efforts to bring our faith to bear on the political process, we see instead the most rank sorts of hypocrisy. Commonweal has just come out with an interesting case in point, perhaps one on which Deacon Greg can shed some light. It’s called “The Guidelines for Catholic Voters”, a title written (I believe) with a sneer.
[Ron ... I saw that and my jaw dropped. Paul nailed it. I really don't know what some people are thinking. Dcn. G.]



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Panthera

posted September 11, 2010 at 1:09 pm


Civitas Occiduus, I thank you.
One of the problems we face is the simple fact that the overwhelming majority of politicians who have a basic grasp of economics also are advocates of gay rights and either pro-choice or, at least, stand as I do: In opposition to abortion while acknowledging that women must have the right to sovereignty over their own bodies.
Such politicians are, of course, totally unacceptable to single-issue voters who only see in black and white.
A prime example is to be found this week in Judge Phillips and the reactions to her recent decision. You might recall that this is the judge who ruled quite firmly that a nurse whose Catholic faith prohibits the dispensing of birth control pills must not be forced to do so, nor may she be disciplined.
At the time the judge made this decision, she was hailed as wise, God-fearing, et cetra.
This week, based on the exact same amendments and constitutional protections, she found that gays do have human and civil rights in the US.
The nastiness, vile, hateful, vicious attacks heaped on her by non-liberal Christians in the last three days are quite depressing.
This is the source of much of our economic distress right now: Laffer himself has admitted he was wrong. Every competent economist is troubled by Republican proposals to fix our economic woes.
How on earth do we resolve this impasse.



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RomCath

posted September 11, 2010 at 3:29 pm


“Every competent economist is troubled by Republican proposals to fix our economic woes.”
What a generalization. Are there no competent Republican economists or are they imcompetent simply because they are Republicans.
Thanks for another post about gay rights and non-liberal Christians. I guess its better than the usual buzz word “conservative”.



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Panthera

posted September 11, 2010 at 10:39 pm


RomCath,
You’re very welcome.
1) It wasn’t a post about ‘gay rights’, though it is nice to note you now recognize that we have them.
2) As a matter of fact, when the WSJ starts saying you Republicans have got it wrong on the economics of this mess, then, yes, there are no competent economists left on your side. It’s that simple.
Oh, please, please demand I provide references this time!



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romCath

posted September 12, 2010 at 6:41 am


“it is nice to note you now recognize that we have them.”
I don’t. Not any more than anyone else. Nor the right to redefine marriage. Period.



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Panthera

posted September 12, 2010 at 10:15 am


RomCath,
I made reference to the two single issue voter no-noes amongst non-liberal Christians in the US. You have now turned the topic into another battle ground.
That is, you have tried to. I won’t play that game with you today.
Have you anything to contribute towards resolving the economic mess we’re in? I’d love to hear it if you do. There are quite a few non-liberal Christians who are caught up in a quandary right now. On the one hand, they despise us liberal Christians for our insistence that this is a secular government and not a theocracy.
On the other hand, they are genuinely concerned about the lack of coherency and interest in furthering the interests of anyone in the US except the top 2% on the part of all those politicians they supported.
It is not technically ironic, but it is amusing in a rather horrible way that we both are jabbed by different horns of the same dilemma. I supported the Democrats because the promised me freedom. Non-liberal Christians supported the Republicans because they promised to continue to suppress my freedom and to take it away from women.
Neither political party has delivered.
So, tell you what – your politicians have abandoned you, mine have abandoned me. The conservative courts are doing what we both thought our politicians should have done. It is time to sign an armed treaty – MAD – was the original American term, I believe, and see if we can’t fix this economy. Then we can go back to you persecuting me and me refusing to sit still for it. That is, after all, how you define your Christianity. No, not even your Catholicism – there are too many Catholics here who don’t wish me freedom, but who are capable of discerning hatred when they see it.



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RomCath

posted September 12, 2010 at 12:23 pm


I have not turned this into another battle ground. I am simply stating that I don’t believe you have the right to redefine marriage. That is not persecution nor hatred. Please stop equating disagreement with hatred. I don’t hate you or anyone else. I strongly disagree with your interpretation of Christianity.
The president ran on a campaign of hope and change. I see neither happening for the betterment of our country or its citizens.



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Panthera

posted September 12, 2010 at 1:32 pm


RomCath,
We knew you disagreed with ‘my’ interpretation of Christianity the day you said it was fine and dandy to kill people.
For those who missed that, we knew you disagreed with my interpretation of Christianity the day you said the hateful things about Muslims you did – well, that was actually on several days.
Then there is the open question of why you support McCain and Gingerich, despite the fact that Jesus explicitly spoke out against divorce.
Well, I guess those are just ‘my’ interpretations of the direct words of God on the matter…and since Jesus never said word one about my love, your ‘interpretation’ is obviously the literally correct one…
Love is hate and peace is war.
The one and only reference on this thread to the persecution of gays by conservative Christians was the statement of fact that the only politicians who still persecute us also happen to be the ones who are totally wrong in their economic perspectives. A very large number of Catholics have, in the meantime, also come to this conclusion, and are in a very deep quandary as to what to do about it.
You are the one, not me, who is dragging the issue of my rights into this discussion. So stop, already.
By the by, have you any concept of the legal definition of ‘animus’?



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RomCath

posted September 12, 2010 at 2:00 pm


“We knew you disagreed with ‘my’ interpretation of Christianity the day you said it was fine and dandy to kill people.
For those who missed that, we knew you disagreed with my interpretation of Christianity the day you said the hateful things about Muslims you did – well, that was actually on several days.
Then there is the open question of why you support McCain and Gingerich, despite the fact that Jesus explicitly spoke out against divorce.”
As I have told you before, you are confusing me with someone else. I have never said it fine to kill anyone or said hateful things about Muslims. I have never mentioned Muslims at all. You are guilty of slander.
The fact that Jesus said nothing about “your love” is again fallacious since he did indeed quote Genesis on the matter of marriage, you know ..that is why a MAN leaves his father and mother and clings to his WIFE..
Apart from the OT, St Paul had a few things to say about your love. But I guess that doesn’t count since it wasn’t Jesus.
Jesus never said anything specific about a lot of moral evils (drugs, rape, incest etc). Should we deduce from that that they all then OK?
And why can’t you share your moral outrage about capital punishment, torture and killing with what happens to an unborn child in an abortion? Or is ripping apart an unborn child “fine and dandy” with you?



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Panthera

posted September 12, 2010 at 2:25 pm


My moral outrage is sufficient for me to have worked hard with our family foundation to help women keep their child and surrender it after birth to adoption. Over 20 so far this year.
Yes, I do firmly believe in a woman’s right to chose. As many conservative Christians here have often pointed out to me, it is better to watch women die of coat-hanger alley abortions than to keep it legal. I can quote those comments from right here on this blog.
So don’t lecture me on your morality.



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romancrusader

posted September 12, 2010 at 4:17 pm


“You only care about a child until the day it is born, then you could not care less.”
Whoa! Let’s use some logic for once okay?
“Yes, I do firmly believe in a woman’s right to chose.”
Which is justifying abortion. And if you think that the Church’s position on this will change, it won’t happen, ever. It never ceases to amaze me how people like Panthera, rationalize away the killing of unborn children.
“As many conservative Christians here have often pointed out to me, it is better to watch women die of coat-hanger alley abortions than to keep it legal.”
Another sweeping generalization. How do you know that a woman is going to choose a back alley abortion when it’s delcared illegal? On what grounds do you say this? Panthera, I get the distinct impression that you don’t like us Catholics very much is this true?



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RomCath

posted September 12, 2010 at 4:21 pm


“So don’t lecture me on your morality. You only care about a child until the day it is born, then you could not care less.”
I wouldn’t waste my breath on you trying to convince you that life begins at conception. Maybe you should look at an ultrasound. How do you know what I have done or not done to protect innocent life? You think I should brag about it? You saved 20 children, that’s your Christian duty. You have done no more than you should have done, do you want a medal?
A woman’s right to choose–you really think Jesus would applaud that? I think he would be disgusted. Please spare me the old back alley hanger nonsense. That’s really old.
I notice you did not address the lies you have told about me and the Muslim comments and killing.
Spare me your moral outrage at torture, capital punishment etc. when you can’t even stand up for an innocent unborn baby.



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romancrusader

posted September 12, 2010 at 4:28 pm


Deacon,
I find Panthera’s comment
“You only care about a child until the day it is born, then you could not care less.”
to be morally offensive.
[Roman...So do I. It's been deleted. And comments for this thread are now closed. It's gotten out of hand. Dcn. G.]



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