The Deacon's Bench

The Deacon's Bench


Anne Rice: “I quit being a Christian” — UPDATED

posted by jmcgee

Anne-Rice-0011.jpg
The best-selling writer who made headlines with her dramatic conversion (or reversion) and wrote a popular book about her journey back to Catholicism, has changed her mind. 

She made the announcement on Facebook:
“I quit being a Christian. I’m out. In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control. I refuse to be anti-Democrat. I refuse to be anti-secular humanism. I refuse to be anti-science. I refuse to be anti-life. In the name of … Christ, I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen.”

Rice wrote “Called Out of Darkness: A Spiritual Confession,” a memoir about her own conversion to Christianity–making the post a bit more surprising.

In another post, Rice also admitted, “I remain committed to Christ as always but not to being ‘Christian’ or to being part of Christianity.” So far, her posts have drawn nearly 2,000 comments and well over 3,000 “likes.”

UPDATE: The AP has spoken with Rice by phone:

Rice said she had been having doubts for the past two to three years. She was troubled by the child abuse scandals in the church, and the church’s defensive reaction, and by the ex-communication of Sister Margaret McBride, a nun and hospital administrator who had approved an abortion for a woman whose life was in danger.

“I believed for a long time that the differences, the quarrels among Christians didn’t matter a lot for the individual, that you live your life and stay out of it. But then I began to realize that it wasn’t an easy thing to do,” said Rice, speaking from her home near Palm Springs, Calif. “I came to the conclusion that if I didn’t make this declaration, I was going to lose my mind.”

Rice said she is a Democrat who supports the health care legislation signed into law by President Barack Obama and believes gay marriage inevitably will be permitted throughout the country. Although no longer part of any denomination, she remains a believer and continues to read theology and post Biblical passages on her Facebook page. She has no immediate plans to write about her leaving the church and will continue with her metaphysical fiction series, “Songs of the Seraphim.”

Meantime, if anyone can get Rice to re-think her position, it might well be this gal, who argues, compellingly, that Christianity is one of the most misunderstood, poorly taught movements in the world. Anne Rice would do well to read what The Anchoress has to say, and pray about it …



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oldestof9

posted July 29, 2010 at 2:08 pm


Somehow I knew this was coming…….



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Eugene Pagano

posted July 29, 2010 at 2:15 pm


Her action seems extreme. I have many of the same issues, but became an Episcopalian.



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jestrfyl

posted July 29, 2010 at 2:42 pm


For all who are frustrated with various church heriarchies and ecclesiastical eager-beavers, try the UCC. Check out our website, ucc.org, and find a local UCC congregation. You may discover a whole new, different, fascinating face to Christianity. Among the pillars of our organization is the belief in the autonomy of each congregation. That means no religious authority can tell a congregation what to do, what to believe, or who to call as pastor. It is as flawed as any other human organization, but at least we are upfront and honest about our distinctive traits.
I hope Ms Rice will seek out a UCC congregation. She will find that many of us (but we don’t all agree, so not all of us) will strike harmonious chords to her aspirations for the Church.



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Roger

posted July 29, 2010 at 2:44 pm


Methinks she is working on a new vampire novel or something. She is acting like some driftwood in a river and going with what she feels is the proper flow to help her sell novels. Sorry for being so cynical, but I never really believe her ‘conversion’ to begin with.



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Helmut Hein

posted July 29, 2010 at 2:59 pm


Book sales must have been dropping.



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George M.

posted July 29, 2010 at 3:01 pm


One cannot be a true Christian when one rejects the one Church Christ founded.
Ms. Rice has succumbed to ill-informed secularist slogans and substituted them for the true freedom that comes from obedience to the truth.
And she like Eugene Pagano and jestrfyl arrogantly make themselves the arbiters of truth rather than lovers of it.
A Catholic stands in awe of truth revealed by God but understood by reason. A true Catholic is humble before the truth even when it demands things that are difficult, like giving up a sinful lifestyle that includes masturbatory activity as are homosexual activity and contraceptive sex.



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Bob Henry

posted July 29, 2010 at 3:02 pm


The Parable of the Sower comes to mind. “As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the lure of wealth choke the word, and it yields nothing.” Matt. 13:22



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Janet

posted July 29, 2010 at 3:27 pm


This saddens me to hear this. Her 2 books on Christ the Lord were very good. I’ve already said a prayer for her.



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Mike Andrews

posted July 29, 2010 at 3:39 pm


Oh, my. Ms. Rice is re-inventing herself, again. The premises of her rejection of Christianity are all false. Anti-life? Puh-leese. I suspect her atheist pals finally got her to see the light of day, or is it the dark of night.
May she be led to Christ.



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Basil

posted July 29, 2010 at 3:40 pm


Thank God! She can’t be part of a church that ruthlessly persecutes her own son. I hope her next vampire novel is set among the highest ranking vaticanisti.



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pagansister

posted July 29, 2010 at 3:45 pm


It is obvious that the RCC didn’t work for her. Even though it claims to be the one true church, the fact that there are many other religions tends to prove that there are many “true” churches. One size doesn’t fit “most” and one must feel comfortable with the teachings of whatever religion/faith they choose. To continue to go to a church/synogogue/temple or where ever to worship when it isn’t fulfilling the need of the individual isn’t fair to the person or the faith.



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piotr

posted July 29, 2010 at 4:08 pm


it looks like she does not know what she wants.



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Brendan McGrath

posted July 29, 2010 at 4:09 pm


This is depressing.
I am puzzled though why she’s rejecting the identity of “Christian,” if she says Christ is still important to her, etc. Is it that she doesn’t want to be associated with the name “Christian,” because of the view that many have of it?



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CJC

posted July 29, 2010 at 4:18 pm


In the name of Christ, not being a Christian? I do not understand what this means. This sounds illogical to me. To be Christian means to confess Christ. Christ came to do the will of His Father. God’s will was manifested in Christ through a physical and spiritual obedience here on Earth. So, has Ms. Rice had a personal revelation from Christ that it is God’s will that she oppose the Catholic church’s stance? If someone has a revelation, how would we know the validity of the revelation? Since a revelation is from the spiritual realm, how do we know it is not Satan informing us? This is why we are told to test the spirits because Satan is a great deceiver and comes shrouded as the angel of light. The obvious difficulty is that we are self-trusting and materialistic and do not think our thoughts and ideas are informed by the spiritual realm.The issue is that modern man seeks any authority other than Christ and willingly chooses to not retain Christ in his thoughts. This is an ethical choice. This is incidentally why Ms. Rice is able to declare she is opposed to these beliefs of the Church, quit Christianity, and then paradoxically state she remains committed to Christ. She cannot resolve unyielding nature of the Christian law with the freeing nature of the Christian love. But it does make sense if you believe that Christ saves us by his grace and not by our merit. Then the christian law becomes relational to us because it was meant to awaken us to our depraved, dark nature in a perfect unyielding way. And then the Holy Spirit reveals unto us that Christ’s love is reconciling us unto Him. This is a continuous act of love by Christ.
As a believer begins to see their depravity, they become saddened by the judgements they hold out against others. Everyone is screwed up because we all have this carnal connection to Adam. Also, we don’t know another person’s trials and what they are experiencing. Christ’s love becomes our everything because we cannot eradicate our carnality while on Earth. This is the struggle Paul talks about in Romans 7.



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Kristen

posted July 29, 2010 at 4:23 pm


Well, I know nothing more than what was just posted here.
But she seems to be distinguishing between “rejecting Christ” and “rejecting being a Christian.”
There are some people who are actively involved in church, who pray a lot, who would describe a relationship with Jesus as the center of their lives, who describe themselves as “Christ-followers” or somesuch because the word “Christian” carries too much baggage.
I don’t do this, I think it’s a bit goofy, but I also do see where they’re coming from. And it’s not a rejection of God, Jesus, faith, or even the community of believers.
And when she talks about in the name of Christ, I quit Christianity, it sounds like that may be what she’s trying to get at.
Captcha: nonsense that



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John

posted July 29, 2010 at 4:24 pm


Sounds to me like she’s disillusioned with many of the faults of American conservative manifestations of institutional Christianity (as am I), but remains a Christ-follower.



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wineinthewater

posted July 29, 2010 at 4:39 pm


pagansister,
I actually *want* to be uncomfortable. I am a sinner. I know this. And confronting my sin makes me uncomfortable. Challenging me in my failure to live up to Jesus’ rather high standards makes me uncomfortable. If I am comfortable, then my community is just affirming me in my sin and and complacency. A religion that just offers “a” truth is simply not good enough, I desire *the* Truth. Sure, I might relate to that truth in a unique way, but that does not make me the arbiter of Truth. In fact, since I’m a sinner, I don’t want any part of a truth of which I would be the arbiter.
I think this challenging and confronting is a fundamental spiritual need. Without it, a church/synagogue/temple cannot be truly spiritually fulfilling, it is just spiritually appeasing.



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Chris

posted July 29, 2010 at 4:43 pm


While it is sad to see anyone leave the Church, especially since they don’t understand it, Ms. Rice doesn’t seem to be too capable of consistent reasoning.
I don’t think she understands that she can’t be a “Christ-follower” while endorsing secular humanism, which specifically rejects Him.



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Laura E.

posted July 29, 2010 at 4:44 pm


I don´t think se ever was. Christ is all about Love. Injustice, discrimination, killing unborns isn´t loving at all. I think she never got it in the first place so she is missunderstood about what christianity and church is all about. God helps her find the way.



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Chris

posted July 29, 2010 at 4:46 pm


A clarification:
I don’t think she understands that it is a contradiction to claim to be a “Chris-follower” while endorsing secular humanism, which specifically rejects Him.



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William

posted July 29, 2010 at 4:52 pm


How sad; she seems to have missed the point of being a Christian. She obviously needed another spiritual adviser in her journey. Let us hope someday, perhaps, she will be back.



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Barbara Edsall

posted July 29, 2010 at 5:01 pm


This news saddens me. I loved “Called Out of Darkness;” it was actually a part of my journey into becoming a Catholic–about which I will NEVER change my mind. Yet at the end of the book, I could see trouble brewing, as Ms. Rice grappled with the question of homosexuality, a question very personal to her in light of her only child.
In all of the instruction I received towards joining the Church, I was never told to “be against” anything except sin, mostly my own.
In light of the fact that 54% of responding Catholics voted for Barack Obama, I can’t see where a Catholic is expected to be “against Democrats.” In fact, there has been a great tradition of Catholic alliance with the Democrat Party, though that may be changing now.
I don’t know what Ms. Rice’s experience has been that has led her to this point. What we need to do is pray fervently for her.



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Vo1itW

posted July 29, 2010 at 5:03 pm


“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.”
1 Tomothy 4:1
KJV



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Joe

posted July 29, 2010 at 5:38 pm


She can’t quit!
God already fired her.



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Gary J Sibio

posted July 29, 2010 at 6:34 pm


Anne is wrong. She’s not leaving Christianity; she was never one in the first place. You can’t be a Christian, regardless of what label you slap on yourself, and be at war with the Kingdom of God.
When I first heard she had “converted” I also heard that, because one of her son’s was gay, she didn’t accept the Catholic Church’s teaching on homosexuality. OK. Becoming a Christian does not make one immediately perfect. I said a prayer that God would enlighten her. A few years later I heard her being interviewed on a Catholic radio station. Nothing was said of the issue so I thought that maybe she had come to accept it. Apparently that was not the case. I didn’t realize that she also had these other issues as well.
Jesus said, “They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.” (Luke 12:53, ESV)
I realize that it would not have been easy for Rice to accept the Catholic Church’s teachings on these issues but it was still necessary for her to do so. However it is disingenuous of her to leave the Church and play “holier than thou” with her liberal beliefs.
I also feel sorry for her son. Anne, had she accepted the truth, could have helped her son overcome his homosexual orientation or, at least, helped him to live a chaste life. I realize that God might still be able to reach him but his mother’s rejection of Christianity is going to make that all that more difficult.



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kenneth

posted July 29, 2010 at 6:58 pm


I can’t fault her reasons for leaving. They are some of the same reasons I left (though there are far deeper theological ones). Still, this thread was worth the look for Eugene Pagano’s remarks alone.
“Don’t jump, son. We can talk this out. You can become an Episcopalian” :)



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Belen

posted July 29, 2010 at 7:05 pm


She DID miss the point of being a Christian, or Christ-follower, or whatever she wants to call it. Saints DID hate. But they didn’t hate SINNERS. They hated SIN. She needs to read and study the Bible more CAREFULLY and get a better spiritual director. It’s really sad that she invented a false Jesus, an idol. And it’s more sad that she choses to follow and love this phoney Christ and not the REAL one. She probably caved in to the pressure of the fame and bought the lies of the world, you know “oh, those christians are hypocrites,liars,not Christ-like. They preach hate….” etc,etc. It’s disappointing, cause I really thought she had converted for real…



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---

posted July 29, 2010 at 7:10 pm


She is not saying this is required in order to be a Christian, and she is not grappling with the words taught in the Bible. Today’s Christian public is very densely populated with people who spread a message of…not hatred, certainly, but I think prejudice, would work. Just google “God hates gays” and look at the terrible signs and banners being waved by men, women, and even children…
Christianity is a religion of acceptance. Jesus’ best friends were poor, or thieves, or prostitutes, not one in the bunch was perfect. To separate yourself from these types of people is one thing, but to actively bring verbal or physical condemnation on a different lifestyle is about as un-Christian as it gets.
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
– Mohandas Gandhi



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Howard

posted July 29, 2010 at 7:11 pm


I’ve never heard of her or her book before,* but I can’t have missed much: she does not seem to be a serious person. This latest stunt makes her look like the religion equivalent of the Octomom; at least it generated enough publicity that I know her name now.
* Correction: I had heard of her vaguely, but in the context of vampire novels I’ve never read. I had to Google “rice vampire” to be sure who this was.



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Mariano

posted July 29, 2010 at 7:42 pm


While there is certainly much to be said in response to, in correction of, Rice I wish to provide her the following with regards to her statements about Christianity being “anti-feminist” (understanding that a distinction is to be drawn between the Bible and the Christian “religion” and also that the definition of the term feminist can vary):
In the Bible we find that:
Males and females were both created in the image of God.
Women had the right to own land.
Received inheritance.
Were prophetesses (in both testaments).
Were judges.
Were disciples.
Were deaconesses.
Were teachers.
Worked and owned their own businesses.
Women were present at the day of Pentecost.
Books of the Bible are named after women.
Women were the first at the empty tomb while the male apostles were hiding in fear.
For these facts, see: Genesis 1:27; Exodus 15:20; Numbers ch. 27; 2nd Kings 22:14; 2nd Chronicles 34:22; Job 42:15; Proverbs 31:16; Isaiah 8:3; Judges 4:4; Luke 2:36; Romans 16:1-2; Acts 1:12-14, 2:1, 16:14, 21:7-9, 9:36, 18:26; Titus 2:3-4.
Also note that while Pliny the Younger (Plinius Secundus) was Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor in 112 AD he wrote to Emperor Tarjan in Epistles 10.96, referring to Christians he writes of “two female slaves, who were styled deaconesses.”
This again demonstrates a continued Christian practice of having women in leadership and teaching roles; to whatever extent.
Some dismiss these facts and refuse to be confused by facts but will dismiss it by asking about things that pertain to roles and not to ontology.



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Magistra Bona

posted July 29, 2010 at 7:48 pm


Dear Deacon Greg: Thank you for this post. I read Anne Rice’s conversion story in Called out of Darkness. When you convert, whether it’s ‘re-verting’ or ‘con-verting’, you must go through necessary formation, formal and informal. You’re just not done learning the faith. Her seeming recantation shows how little she knows about the actually teaching of the Church, which most of us can find in the pages of the Catechism. She admits in her story that she does not like to read text. Perhaps a good solution would be the Catechism in audio book form.
The Church does not teach us to be anti- anyone, but pro-Christ and His Kingdom. Just because some of your fellow Christians pig out on hate does not mean you must imitate them or fail to “be a good Christian”. You’ve got to deal with the scandal of the cross and all that goes with it. Please, everybody, pray for our sister Anne. Hers is a powerful voice when it is lifted in praise of God and of His Church. And, if you know her personally, please get her an audiobook of the Catechism. Peace.



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HelenB

posted July 29, 2010 at 8:09 pm


Who cares, and I’m a Christian. She never got it to begin with.



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MIriam

posted July 29, 2010 at 8:25 pm


Christianity isn’t for quitters!



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Steven Barrett

posted July 29, 2010 at 9:21 pm


My, my, my … what a lot of “I’s”.



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Panthera

posted July 29, 2010 at 10:36 pm


George M. blasphemed:
“One cannot be a true Christian when one rejects the one Church Christ founded.”
How dare you commit the idolatry of elevating the Catholic church to the level of the Trinity!
That is NOT Catholic theology, it is a direct violation of the first commandment:
I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
How dare you!



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Basil

posted July 29, 2010 at 11:21 pm


“I also feel sorry for her son. Anne, had she accepted the truth, could have helped her son overcome his homosexual orientation.”
Doubtless, a good Catholic parent would engage the services of the nearest lobotomist.



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Panthera

posted July 29, 2010 at 11:53 pm


Or, at least have electroshock therapy applied.
Once you ignore medicine, science, police statistics, the compiled social analysis of all western countries and insist on imposing your interpretation of God’s will on the rest of us, you can justify just about anything.



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Scott123

posted July 30, 2010 at 1:17 am


It so sad that she has abandoned the Church. Being the Arch of Salvation and the ordinary means of receiving grace, she opted to ditch it to serve what amounts to the Democratic party agenda.
She seemed to be an intelligent woman, but I guess she can’t get over herself and her own feelings to at least take an objective view of the issues she is struggling with.
I guess that is the perspective of an artist, not a philosopher.
I will say a prayer for you Anne.



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JJ

posted July 30, 2010 at 4:47 am


If she’s not given up on Christ, I guess she won’t be saying the “Our Father”, rather “My father or your father…” Because we’re supposed to be a community of believers. Simple self-centredness on her part.
That said, we should pray for her and her son.
JJ



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John Siegmund

posted July 30, 2010 at 6:25 am


All of her “excuses” indicates a seroius lack of faith in God. Her faith was apparently rooted in mankind not God, so when mankind failed her faith failed. Sadly she is not the first nor will she be he last.



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Deborah

posted July 30, 2010 at 8:10 am


Anne,
I just watched your video “I Am Second”. Please watch it again and think of where your heart was at when you said those words.
Religion is man-made, you know this. You can follow in HIM without following dogma…you know this too.
By saying that you “quit” being Christian…you have confused faith for religion, and many people will misunderstand your intentions.
I’ve read your books for years, and enjoyed them all tremendously. How odd that our lives have lead us in similar parallels and I embraced Christ again about the same time you did. I have yet to find my “religion” yet, so I haven’t had to quit anything.
Your heart knows the truth….keep the faith.
~Deborah



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Tina

posted July 30, 2010 at 8:55 am


Anne,
You may want to reconsider your statement; “I quit christianity, and being christian.” If you believe in Christ then I think by definition you are Christian. To choose to be “a” catholic or pro-testant is a theological preference or understanding, making you part of a group or organization, similar to being “a” sports fan or “a” Shriner. Ponder if you will…. adding the word “a” makes all the difference in the world, if I state “I am Christian”, that is a state of “being”, the way I live, how I exist; but, if I state “I am a Christian”, that aligns me or joins me to larger group and their particular belief system. I believe a person of strong faith can be Christian without choosing to be “a” anything.
Blessings,
Tina



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romancrusader

posted July 30, 2010 at 10:04 am


She seems confused. The Church is not homophobic. But I think she misses the whole point. Jesus is the reason to be a Christian. Luckily she does not speak for the majority, who still cling to Eternal Truths, neither bending this way and that in the wind nor following current fashion.
Her Facebook rant is just a ploy for attention. sarcams on/Oh woe is me. I’m leaving the church!/sarcasm off
She sinned by her formal heresy anyways. If anything, she probably caused scandal to the faithful who might have read her stuff. At least now they can see that her errors are not compatible with the Catholic faith. Mary, pray for her.



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M. Burns

posted July 30, 2010 at 10:11 am


Re: The erroneous belief that one can be a Christian without belonging to a community of believers (i.e., a church/religion,following dogma, etc.), per several comments.
God (Matthew 23:1-3) Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach.”
St. John (1 John 4:6) We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and whoever is not from God does not listen to us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
The early Church Fathers affirm this as well.
Being a Christian, by definition, is following Christ, doing what He tells us to do. He tells us many times and in many ways to listen to his leaders, the Apostles and their legitimate successors. The question then is WHICH are the legitimate successors, which is the legitimate church/religion that is NOT man-made?
Although there are many passages from Scripture, I provide the following examples:
St. Paul (2 Thessalonians 2:15) So then brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.
St. Paul (1 Corinthians 11:2) I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions just as I handed them on to you.
St. Paul (2 Timothy 1:13-14) Hold to the standard of sound teaching that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Guard the good treasure entrusted to you, with the help of the Holy Spirit living in us.
St. Paul (2 Timothy 2:2) and what you have heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will be able to teach others as well.
(Remember the above passage: We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and whoever is not from God does not listen to us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. ~1 John 4:6)
Which church/religion listens to the Apostles and teaches this tradition? Which church/religion can historically trace its leadership back to the Apostles? When you have found this church/religion, you will have found the true church! And if you choose not to follow the teachings of that church/religion, you are, by definition, choosing not to follow Christ, and so, by definition, are not Christian.



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Alejandro

posted July 30, 2010 at 10:12 am


I’m with Eugene Pagano all the way,I’m Episcopalian too and I pray Anne Rice does likewise!:)



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Mike Malone

posted July 30, 2010 at 10:23 am


Wow! Who’da thunk it? Another lost celeb who the faith to conform to thier secular humanist views.
Anti-gay…..she may want to read the gospel passages that condemn homosexuality.
Anti-femnist, I think she means pro-abortion, pro-female priests etc. etc. She may want to take a look at Christ’s teachings with respect to these kind of issues.
Anti-life….what does this even mean?
Anti-science….the Church isn’t anti-science in any way what-so-ever.
I refuse to be anti-Democrat…..maybe she should notice that Christ didn’t take a vote before issuing the 10 commandments and the Catholic Church follows Tradition, Scripture and the teachings of the ordinary and universal magesterium…..no votes involved.
In case she missed it by rejecting the teachings of the Catholic Church in such a public way it is likely that she as incurred Latae Sententiae.
To accept Christ is to accept His teachings…..Anne has chosen to be a secular humanist and reject religious dogma…..good luck with that!



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Valerie

posted July 30, 2010 at 11:14 am


She needs our prayers, not our condemnation.
Anne, I will pray for you to see how God continues to guide your steps toward Him. I have faith that you will work things out in your heart and your mind with the everpresent help of His everlasting unconditional love.



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Conservative

posted July 30, 2010 at 11:27 am


“I’m with Eugene Pagano all the way,I’m Episcopalian too and I pray Anne Rice does likewise!:)”
Oh is that the church founded by Christ? I thought it was founded by a King who was married six times. How funny.



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jedesto

posted July 30, 2010 at 12:32 pm


A gentleman I know left the Episcopal church and became Catholic,
“…because,” he said, “the Episcopal church is founded on lust.” He was blunt, but he knows history.



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JayneR

posted July 30, 2010 at 12:32 pm


Sounds like somebody’s confused ritualistic catholocism with personal-relationship Christianity.



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MinervaC

posted July 30, 2010 at 12:45 pm


Good Riddance!



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Basil

posted July 30, 2010 at 12:50 pm


Mike Malone writes:
Anti-gay…..she may want to read the gospel passages that condemn homosexuality.
By opposing every piece of non-discrimination legislation related to sexual orientation, the Catholic church endorses discrimination against even celibate gays. The USCCB opposed even employment non-discrimination and other US Catholic bishops have opposed gay-inclusive anti-bullying legislation.
You’d think if the Church were really opposed to abortion, then the Church would save some of its venom for the only people causing abortions – sexually active heterosexuals. Yet the Church panders to the lowest sort of bigoted filth.
My theory is that the priesthood has been predominantly gay for centuries and priests imagine they can avert suspicion from themselves by inciting witch hunts even against gay minors.
It’s utterly disgusting that the laity are so craven and stupid that they buy into this charade.



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George M.

posted July 30, 2010 at 1:47 pm


Note that Panthera molests minds with his lack of logic and impotent assertions.
St. Cyprian of Carthage, “One cannot have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother.”
St. Cyril of Alexandria, “When visiting a town do not merely ask for the church or ‘house of the Lord’ because heretics and schismatics dare to call their dens of iniquity such. Ask for the Catholic Church, because it alone is the true Church.”
Frankly, it is heretical perfidy that separates Catholic from Christian. And it godless humanism which separates Christ from Christian. (All social engineering is preceded by verbal engineering.)
Jesus Christ founded one Church. Thus, if anyone heeds His voice this person will seek to belong to this one Church.
Individual Protestants had to create the notion of denominations in order to justify founding communities based on their various vices. The problem is when Catholics adopt this Protestant language and regard the Catholic Church as only one expression of Christianity. But Catholicism is authentic Christianity. She alone has the promise of the Holy Spirit guiding her to all truth; she alone is built on Peter and the gates of Hell will not prevail against her; she alone is the pillar of truth. Every other “Christian” is conterfeit. They may have stolen some element of Catholicism and claim it as their own. They may mimick Catholic liturgy, Catholic doctrine, or even use Catholic Scriptures. But, just as a fool would prefer counterfeit money to the authentic, it is foolish prefer counterfeit “Christianity” to the true.



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Conservative

posted July 30, 2010 at 2:08 pm


Well said George M!
As for Basil’s thesis, yeah right.



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evener

posted July 30, 2010 at 4:01 pm


So another person rejects the authority of scripture, the magisterium, & traditions of the Catholic Church.
At least she doesn’t still claim to be a christian.
Does anyone else see a rough road ahead?



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Matt

posted July 30, 2010 at 4:49 pm


“Anti science?” This accusation is laughable. I suppose she believes if science can do it, then it’s moral….it’s not that the Church is opposed to science….it is opposed to moral relativism.
“anti-Democrat?” The Church does preach us to vote Republican….the Church reminds us to vote for the candidate most in align with Catholicism with emphasis on life moral issues. It’s not the Church’s fault if the Democratic party holds its platform on an intrinsic evil (abortion).
“anti-gay?” The Catechism in paragraph 2358 that ” They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”
I could go on, but I sense she doesn’t understand the teachings behind these unjust accusations and has fallen into anti-Catholic stereotypes.



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Catholic Legislator

posted July 30, 2010 at 5:46 pm


Panthera says:
“George M. blasphemed (by saying):
“One cannot be a true Christian when one rejects the one Church Christ founded.”
“How dare you commit the idolatry of elevating the Catholic church to the level of the Trinity!”
Response: If George M blasphemed, then the Council of Nicea is also guilty of blasphemy:
“We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth…We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God…
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son…We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church”
How dare the Council of Nicea commit the idolatry of elevating belief in the Church on the same level as belief in the Trinity!
Panthera may want to reconsider his indictment of George M.



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Jack

posted July 30, 2010 at 7:38 pm


Perhaps Catholic Legislator should research the meaning of catholic in lower case….The definition if I am not mistaken refers to a universal concept..not the Catholic Church



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Conservative

posted July 30, 2010 at 7:49 pm


Jack perhaps you could tell us what Church other than the Catholic Church Jesus founded? Is there any one of the 30000 plus denominations that can trace itself back to the apostolic age? Is there? Please tell us.
No doubt Nicea was speaking of a particular church not simply a concept.



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pagansister

posted July 30, 2010 at 9:39 pm


wineinthewater: 4:39 PM 29 July:
You may want to be uncomfortable in your church, since you are a “sinner”. I agree no one is perfect, I just have a hard time with that word, “sin”. Personally, if I felt uncomfortable and not at peace in my temple/synogogue/church I’d not be there. Why should “faith” need to cause discomfort? Makes no sense to me.



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Mary Ann Thompson-Frenk

posted July 30, 2010 at 9:42 pm


I must confess to being a long time fan of Anne Rice’s work. I felt that the vampire characters in her writting gave her the ability to utilize a human perspective of our species history in terms of centuries. Catholicism always played a large role in all of her character’s experiences, and perhaps no greater scene of the forces of darkness and light has been written into personification as when she had God and the devil playing chess at a restaraunt in the guise of mere men that they had both cursed into always and forever being a restaraunt and always and forever being a prosperous one. LOL! The image was one of two beings that had witnessed mankind from our dawn of time to the present and who truly did share a sense of humor about our many silly decisions that we make each day of our lives.
Somehow, that scene rings true in my mind.
But having had the blessing of being raised by a very devout and mystical catholic, my father, who never called upon his religion as a reason to supress the religious beliefs of others, I can understand why she would feel the way she does. My own father, who passed away from glioblastoma, the same disease that killed Anne Rice’s husband, Stan, was once put into a hard position. As head of the State Fair of Texas, he was asked to give permission to a gay rights organization who wanted to march for their human rights on the Fair Grounds. Of course their way fo life went against his religion. But, then my father also remembered a similar scenario in which his father had been in charge of what used to be called “Negro Day” when the fair, normally segregated, allowed for integration one day out of the year. My grandfather came face to face with the Ku Klux Klan many times in that fight, and many times with burning crosses in his yard with shouts calling him and his family, including my dad as a little boy “N—– Lover!”. It was with this memory, along with a lot of prayer, that my father not only allowed the gay people their human rights march, but marched beside them.
He said to do otherwise would have been to spit in his own father’s face and to not respect the christian values with which he was raised.
He later quoted some of these values to me from the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi:
“Lord make me an instrument of thy peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love.”
I think that people of every religion tend to take from their sacred prayers and texts that which they wish to support their own aims. I worry that all too often, we people of the modern era point to only those parts of the Bible, Koran, Torah, etc…that we want to remember. We already hand select what we want to listen to from the Bible. I mean really, do you ever truly pay attention to the following:
Exodus 21:20-21 “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.”
1 Peter 2:18 – “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.”
Luke 14:26 ” If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters and yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple.”
These are just a few…so you see, the question of someone like Anne Rice choosing to leave Christianity because she cannot bring herself to hate is sad, not because she doesn’t agree with those who would pick out specific phrases to validate their own prejudices, but sad because in order for the Church to remain relevant to a time of less bigotry in which we all have friends of every race, gender, religion and yes, even orientation, it will need to ask itself why certain texts are more emphasized than others. Those texts supporting slavery, rape, and violence have been ignored. Why then now would one choose to hone in on those texts promoting hatred…the very oppositive of what the Saints themselves refused to partake?



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Chris

posted July 31, 2010 at 5:06 am


She loves sin and calls it being modern!



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Basil

posted July 31, 2010 at 10:39 am


Chris,
You call your hatred “faith.” Which is a greater insult to Christ?



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Jay Everett

posted July 31, 2010 at 12:53 pm


This is how you sell books. A closet gay becomes Catholic and writes a book about her return to the Christian world which becomes a best seller. Then when sales slow down denounce the faith and announce that you are gay. Look for the new book coming soon about the reverse of what was in the first book. Satan=1 God=0
Being Gay is a matter of choice……Selling books is a matter of money.
[Jay...while Ms. Rice's son is gay, I've never read anywhere that she herself shares that orientation. How do you know that? Dcn. G.]



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Mary Ann Thompson-Frenk

posted August 1, 2010 at 3:15 am


Jay,
I don’t think Anne Rice has called herself gay. There are a lot of people in our country who are increasingly disturbed by the extent of hatred towards gay people in the name of religion (not just Christianity).
As for being gay, I have to disagree. I don’t believe that it is a choice. Not one bit, as homosexual behavior has long been seen in mamals of many different species around the world, especially when a species is overpopulated. Mankind’s history follows the same pattern, such as during the Roman Empire. They have also found a lot of evidence to lead scientists to believe there may be a “gay” gene:
http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm
I think that the Catholic Church would be in greater alignment with itself it it came down as equally hard on those who would seek to take uit upon themselves to brutally commit violent acts against gay people. If the chruch took a stronger stance in behalf of hatecrimes committed against them. Then I think that people who find it hard to align themselves with an institution that they percieve as not only just preaching one is to not be like gay people, but also instead preaching that it does not not support acts of hatred against them, more of the public would be more inclined to understand the church.
As it currently stands, with no one (that i know of) from the church speaking out against violent hate crimes aimed at gay people (If you want information on that look up the Southern Poverty Law Center), it makes the church look like it is all around supportive of hatred towards them in all its various forms. People need things spelled out for them, and a major difference needs to be verbalized between those whose religion doesn’t condone another’s way of life and those who would hijack a religion, like the Catholic Church, to justify their own shamful agendas of victimizing those they personally detest.
Personally, as a 33year old, I’m proud that the majority of my generation and those after it consider homophobia to be as antiquated as racism and sexism in our country. In my eyes, that IS God’s work and that IS allowing God to be the judge, and not doing that work for Him.



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Conservative

posted August 1, 2010 at 7:07 am


Are you sayng the Church has not spoken out about violence against homosexuals? If you are, you are wrong.



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Adoro

posted August 1, 2010 at 1:03 pm


Mary-Ann?
The alleged “homosexual behavior” in animals isn’t homosexual behavior. It’s dominance and you can see it happen every day at the dog park. You can see it in horse pastures, etc. It’s “survival of the fittest” and if there are, say, 3 males for one female, the one male will win, the other two will fight for dominance in case the first one gets killed and eaten by some other predator.
On the Church allegedly not speaking out… can you put your intellect where your “mouth” just went? You are very wrong, but as you made the accusation, the burden of proof is upon you to find the support.



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Nancy

posted August 1, 2010 at 2:36 pm


I find the news of this very sad because Anne Rice’s autobiography “Called Out of Darkness” was so moving and beautifully written–she was clearly a woman on a journey. At one point she refers to the time when she as a young adult left the church the first time around the time a priest told her, (because of being raised devoutly Catholic), “You won’t be truly happy anywhere outside the Church.” And that really did come to be, which is why I pray for her to return to her Catholic faith.
I read the Anchoress’ post and I don’t actually agree that she would be the person to bring Anne Rice back. It’s clear from Rice’s writings in Called Out of Darkness and on her website–the little I’ve poked around–that she has read church documents and actively reads a wide range of theologians. She has respect for both JP II and B XVI. I think this is more of a heart issue for her. Someone so much in the public eye, and with her dysfunctional background, would be extra-sensitive to be defending the Catholic faith at every turn, and I could imagine someone like her getting tired of it and just say, “I’m finished.” So someone (as admittedly wonderful as she is!) as The Anchoress accusing Rice of not being well-read enough or not reading Church documents correctly is trying the apologetics route, when I think more the “love her and pray” route is more likely to bear fruit.



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Kay

posted August 1, 2010 at 4:01 pm


Wow, her public comments are so wrong in all that she thinks the Church stands for! The Church is not anti-life, it is PRO-LIFE and is at the forefront of trying to save LIFE (of both unborn, disabled and giving right for natural death). The Church isn’t anti-gay but anti-sin. Homosexual behaviors are sinful, not the person. Supporting birth-control just means you support that same anti-life movement of the Pill. The Pill has not liberated women but made them more available for abuse and mis-use, not to mention causes more abortions. Birth control lifestyle is anti-life.
Just so sad to read her words. I am glad I did not purchase her “Christian” books. I doubt they have spiritually canon doctrine in them (like her Angel Time book) if her personal feelings against the Church are so strong.



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Lestat's Minion

posted August 1, 2010 at 4:35 pm


Welcome back Anne, we missed you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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BobRN

posted August 1, 2010 at 11:54 pm


Ms. Rice seems to have fallen victim to the same temptation that has inflicted so many others: that they have a right to a god and a church made in their image, according to their specifications.
Christ identified Himself with His Church. Paul made it clear that Christ is the Head of the Body and the Church is the Body of Christ. One cannot have a relationship with another’s head without having a relationship with his or her body as well. Not only is it impossible, it’s gross!
Ultimately, there are only two reasons for being Catholic: 1) you believe what the Church teaches, and 2) you want to be a saint. If Ms. Rice does not believe what the Church teaches, she should simply say so and leave it at that. No reason to malign the Church for failing to accomodate her personal preferences or specifications.



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Leticia Velasquez

posted August 2, 2010 at 12:54 am


Christ promised the cross to His followers, and for someone like Ms Rice who has had the adulation of the world for so long, the cross of being politically incorrect and the subsequent rejection from her friends was too heavy to bear.
Let us pray for her rather than criticize her.



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JJ

posted August 2, 2010 at 4:40 am


Kay, you are absolutely right! Godbless you.
JJ



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cna training

posted August 2, 2010 at 9:47 am


Great site. A lot of useful information here. I’m sending it to some friends!



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Eric

posted August 4, 2010 at 5:09 pm


It has nothing to do with personal preferences or what the church thinks. If you are a christian, that means you are to be Christ like. Your personal beliefs should be in line with biblical values, which is God’s written word. Here thoughts all started with “I” and not “this is what the bible says.” She is making her own God and trying to justify it to herself and the rest of the world. She will get away with it on earth, but will have to answer for it when she stands before God on judgement day.



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Jan

posted August 4, 2010 at 11:38 pm


One does not “quit” being a Christian. If you “quit” being a Christian, you were never one in the first place.



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nonsequiter

posted August 5, 2010 at 9:25 am


Poor Ms. Rice appears to be suffering from a case of cognative dissonance. She says she believes in Christ and reads the Bible, yet paradoxically she deny’s Christ. Ms. Rice might want to reconsider her stand, for if the teachings of the Bible are false, then the Bible is just fiction, and if the Bible is just fiction then the idea’s taught by Christ are also fiction. How can she call one fiction yet lay claim to another which by logic is fiction. Ms. Rice might want to get a more intelectually honest and consistent stand. But then secular humanists never do very good at logic.



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Mary

posted August 9, 2010 at 2:29 am


To be a follower of Christ is to reject the powers that be that say in order to follow CHRIST you must follow me.
CHRIST is not a Christian, he is the Son of GOD. Christianity is a man made clique.



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romancrusader

posted August 10, 2010 at 6:03 pm


Mary,
The Catechism and even the Bible states that Christ is the Head of the Church! How can you be the Head of the Church and not be Christian Mary? That makes no sense.



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Toni

posted August 17, 2010 at 11:55 pm


Another post had Anne Rice saying that, although abandoning Christianity, she felt she still needed to be “… absolutely faithful to the core principles of Jesus’ teachings.” My dear Anne, one of Jesus’ core teachings was that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him. No wonder you were in such a tizzy: You were trying to have it both ways, you wanted to follow Christ and also follow your own social/political convictions. You were honest enough to admit that it can’t be done. And the Bible bears you out. Jesus Himself decalred that no one can serve both God and “mammon.” I’m deeply sorrowful that you chose your own belief system, because I know–and so do you–that it can’t save you. That sense of calm you’re feeling? It’s not the true peace of God, it’s merely the absence of your demons, who can take a well-deserved break from harassing you now that you’ve decided to worship yourself.



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Erich

posted August 18, 2010 at 1:59 pm


@Jan
//One does not “quit” being a Christian. If you “quit” being a Christian, you were never one in the first place.”
So it’s like the Mafia ?



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Christian Biker

posted August 23, 2010 at 4:27 pm


I have to agree with Anne Rice. I am a dedicated Christ follower. I believe Christ is the gift of God and the only way to salvation. I don’t believe that politics or public opinion has anything to do with loving and following Christ. What a shame it is that so many self professed Christians carry what the world sees Christ as that really has nothing to do with excepting, believing or following Christ at all. Being a Christian has nothing to do with being for or against anything of this world. Being a christian has everything to do with believing that God/Christ came to earth in the form of sinless man and was crucified/sacrificed and shed his blood as an atonement for sin and to rectify and sanctify and to Glorify and do the will of God.
Oh and Erich, The name Christian is just that A label made up by man. I don’t fall under any label. I believe in and follow Christ. and I think that is what Anne Rice was getting at. Remember also before Martin Luther a man didn’t dare voice his own opinion about what Christ was or what he meant to him personally with out fear of being labeled as a heretic and being executed. Just because a group of organized people voice their opening about what they view as “Christinicly” correct does not make it so. Really the best thing to do is 1. Don’t judge, leave that to God and 2. Find out what God has to say about it, read his Word, the Bible…



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Hot amateure

posted February 9, 2011 at 12:47 pm


A good man is hard to find. (Good men are scarce).



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leonw

posted May 20, 2011 at 3:57 pm


I’m a practicing pro-Life Catholic and a daily communicant.
Why don’t all you hateful, conservative bigots crawl in a hole and hide? You give Catholicism a bad name.
You low information bigots and fools have never caught on to the ruse played by the Republicans and the Hierarchy in the US some 30 years ago to use a moral issue (abortion vs Life)when it got behind a pro-abortion Ronald Reagan to lure Catholics away from the Democrat party into the arms of the Republican party. (That’s right, Ronald Reagan as governor of California was pro-abortion.)
Do you think Christ has an opinion about torturing other human beings, about wars based on lies and about crushing the poor? I’ll guarantee you He does, and all the politically conservative bishops and cardinals better be prepared with a good answer when they meet Him and He asks why they kept silent, or worse, supported politicians who did these evil things.



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Kathy Eshleman

posted September 20, 2011 at 7:16 pm


I work full time with Campus Crusade for Christ for 40+,and you have stated my position much better than I would attempt. I have gone with women to get abortions. They were having such a difficult time, how could I not. Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but that the world would be saved by him. May sound strange to hear, but I believe Billy Graham would agree with you.



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kim

posted July 9, 2012 at 9:37 pm


how did i MISS this!? it’s ok, Anne, i get it. i’m the same…



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googer

posted November 16, 2012 at 9:57 am


I work full time with Campus Crusade for Christ for 40+,and you have stated my position much better than I would attempt. I have gone with women to get abortions. They were having such a difficult time, how could I not. Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but that the world would be saved by him. May sound strange to hear, but I believe Billy Graham would agree with you.

Read more: http://blog.beliefnet.com/deaconsbench/2010/07/anne-rice-i-quit-being-a-christian.html#ixzz2COirs1Hb



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