The Deacon's Bench

The Deacon's Bench


Message to Bill Donohue: shut up

posted by jmcgee

Whatever your noble intentions may be, Mr. Donohue, it’s time for you to slip away and, frankly, shut up.  Please. 

You are doing more harm than good, and making our church look idiotic. If you truly love our faith and want to defend it, go off and say a rosary.

But please: stop this. People, faithful Catholics, have written to me, upset that performances like the one above are now considered representative of our Church. So, consider this a public intervention.  This has to stop.  Please.  You’re embarrassing us all.

Happy Easter.



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posted April 1, 2010 at 2:17 pm


“You are doing more harm than good, and making our church look idiotic,” which is exactly why Mr. Donohue was being interviewed by Larry King (no prince of journalism himself) rather than, say, an Archbishop Dolan or Chaput.



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Holy Cannoli

posted April 1, 2010 at 2:24 pm


>>>You’re embarrassing us all.
lol
All?
He’s not embarrassing me (not this time, anyway). Actually, I wish there were more people like Donahue who were not lacking in the courage necessary to expose this “protected class” in spite of the ridicule form the lame stream media and, evidently, even from some within our church. Along with their enablers, these individuals (homosexuals) were overwhelming responsible for the sexual scandal within the Catholic Church.
Incidentally, I agree not only with Donahue, but with the Vatican spokesman on this one.
————————————–
GENEVA, September 29, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) – The sexual abuse crisis in the Catholic Church in the US and abroad was a matter of homosexuals preying on adolescent boys, not one of pedophilia, said the Vatican’s representative at the UN in Geneva, Switzerland. It is “more correct,” said Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, to speak of ephebophilia, a homosexual attraction to adolescent males, than pedophilia, in relation to the scandals.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/sep/09092910.html
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2005/nov/05112903.html
———————————————————–
Yes, Happy Easter!



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Dana MacKenzie

posted April 1, 2010 at 2:39 pm


Some rare editorial comment from the Deacon, and yes, it needed saying.



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hlvanburen

posted April 1, 2010 at 2:40 pm


“It is “more correct,” said Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, to speak of ephebophilia, a homosexual attraction to adolescent males, than pedophilia, in relation to the scandals.”
And that makes it all better. Of course some of the priests did abuse younger children, so they were pedophiles. And some did abuse adolescents, so they were ephebophiles.
But they were ALL Catholic, weren’t they?



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Tom

posted April 1, 2010 at 2:44 pm


God bless Bill Donohue!
He means well. What he said in that interview is absolutely TRUE– the vast majority of cases of sex abuse in America were not pedophilia– they were young teens and teenagers. It was homosexuality.
Mr. Donohue’s tone of voice usually sounds angry, and that ends up turning people off. He speaks the truth— he just needs to calm down, and practice his delivery.
I am glad he’s out there. I sure as heck wouldn’t want to trade places with him on Larry King— would you?
Happy Holy Thursday!
Get to Church!



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Mike E.

posted April 1, 2010 at 2:52 pm


Virtus, the organization chosen in the wake of the 2002 charter by the Bishops to train its employees and volunteers about sexual abuse, calls the claim that the problem was homosexuality a myth-
“This myth about homosexuality is the single greatest threat to your efforts to prevent child sexual abuse. It focuses on a tiny portion of the Catholic population and says: “There they are. They are the problem.” Unfortunately, this focuses attention away from the truth.
The truth is that there are homosexual priests who are pedophiles. The truth is that these cases, rightly or wrongly, have garnered the greatest media attention and public scrutiny. The truth is that if you eliminate sex abuse by homosexual priests the remaining 90-plus percent of abuse will continue to be committed in the Catholic Church—by employees, volunteers, and family members of victims.”
http://www.virtusonline.org



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Holy Cannoli

posted April 1, 2010 at 2:53 pm


>>>But they were ALL Catholic, weren’t they?
I would say so.
>>>And that makes it all better.
Did the Archbishop say that “that makes it all better”? If not, why do you infer such a thing?
Archbishop Tomasi’s point and the evidence proves that the vast majority of offenders were homosexuals.
Do you have a problem with that?



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Paula Gonzales Rohrbacher

posted April 1, 2010 at 2:55 pm


Thanks Deacon Greg. ’nuff said (are you sick of the firestorm yet? I am.)



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hlvanburen

posted April 1, 2010 at 2:57 pm


“It was homosexuality.”
And regarding those who covered-up these instances of abuse. Were they also homosexuals?



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Holy Cannoli

posted April 1, 2010 at 3:00 pm


>>>And regarding those who covered-up these instances of abuse. Were they also homosexuals?
Speculation: Some of them likely were.
However, that’s not the subject of this thread, is it? Donahue was under fire for his claim on CNN that the crisis was one of homosexual origin.
I’ll ask again, do you have a problem with that?



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Deacon Steve

posted April 1, 2010 at 3:05 pm


We as faithful Catholics cannot hide behind terminology or try to diminish the harmful effects of the sinful behavior that happened. Trying to divert attention away from the problem by arguing the labels simply conjures up the image of the argument of “it depends on what the defintion of what ‘is’ is”….
Healing begins with forgiveness which comes to one following sincere repentance. In these closing days of Lent when we are called to repentance and renewal of our relationship with God and our brothers and sisters, I am saddened that someone like Bill Donahue would purport to represent the Church. I can say without any hesitation he doesn’t speak for me.
Rather than bluster, we would do well to humbly ask and pray for forgiveness….and get the people that adopt a positions like Mr. Donahue to simply be quiet.



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NM

posted April 1, 2010 at 3:07 pm


Oh, poor old winky-blinky-twitchy Bill Donohue…
Anyone else notice the physical resemblance between him and Rosie O’Donnell? Same thick-mick, lower middle class Queens/Long Island Irish thing goin’ on… (I am Irish, btw, just not _that_ sort of Irish — uneducated, belligerant, loud, angry…SO old-school Sunnyside, ya know?)
Bill Donohue does not speak for the Catholic Church or for Catholics.
He’s just another cranky old white dude with an internet connection.
I never watch Larry King, so I didn’t see this segment in its entirety, but did the priest ever get a chance to get a word in edgewise?
Anyways, all I can say is after that hateful nonsense from Mr. Donohue, the Scientologists probably came out looking pretty good.
Whatever. I’m really sick of it all. I’m at the point where I have begun to believe the Church itself is on the right track — finally — but it’s the Bill Donohues of the world who are going to be the problem.



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Mere Catholic

posted April 1, 2010 at 3:09 pm


Amen! I would add the other seriously unhelpful statement made by Mr. Donahue was in his ad in the NYT: “Fr. Lawrence Murphy apparently began his predatory behavior in Wisconsin in the 1950s, yet
the victims’ families never contacted the police until the mid-1970s”.
I hope Mr. Donahue will never have to understand the psyche of a sexual abuse victim, but if he did, he would understand the myriad of reasons victims and families don’t bring forth accusations quickly.
My heart feels sick that this scandal has become yet another flash point for the tired trope of liberal vs. conservative Catholicism.



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hlvanburen

posted April 1, 2010 at 3:21 pm


“Archbishop Tomasi’s point and the evidence proves that the vast majority of offenders were homosexuals.
Do you have a problem with that?”
Not at all. Now, a question for you.
What difference does it make?



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Deacon Chick O'Leary

posted April 1, 2010 at 3:22 pm


Greg, your post might be well intentioned but it goes too far as did Bill Donohue.
Granted, he is way off base in this statement. While technically correct, pedophilia is a specific term relating to pre-pubescent children and ephebophilia is the more precise term relating to post-pubescent children, the crux of the matter is that we are still talking child sexual abuse. Mr. Donohue needs to be dope-slapped for his remarks in this instance.
That being said, I still find him a needed voice in calling out people and organizations such as the New York Times for bias and false reporting as is clearly evidenced in their reports on the case of Lawrence Murphy.



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Holy Cannoli

posted April 1, 2010 at 3:28 pm


If Donahue said something in the CNN interview that was inaccurate, if he said something that was simply his opinion and not factual, I would hope that, in the interest of honesty, someone would point it out.
So far, that hasn’t happened.
Some don’t like him. Some are sad. Some want him to keep quiet and some say he’s an embarrassment to the Church. He’s been called cranky and hateful.
However, as yet, not one person has even attempted to show where he is incorrect.
I’d really like to know…
If Donahue said something in the CNN interview that was inaccurate, if he said something that was simply his opinion and not factual, I would hope that, in the interest of honesty, someone would point it out.
So far, that hasn’t happened.
Some don’t like him. Some are sad. Some want him to keep quiet and some say he’s an embarrassment to the Church. Included, of course, is a litany of ad hominems with him being called cranky, hateful etc. Apparently, people don’t like his ‘no nonsense’ approach…not ‘touchy-feely’ enough for today’s Catholic. I can understand (but not agree) with those people.
However, as yet, not one person has even attempted to show where his statements are incorrect.
I’d really like to know…
————————————-
>>>What difference does it make (whether the offender were indeed homosexuals)?
In attempting to cure the disease, the physician must know what he is dealing with in order to take curative and preventative steps to prevent a recurrence.



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wineinthewater

posted April 1, 2010 at 4:06 pm


I would liken Bill Donohue to the clanging cymbal (1 Cor. 13:1-13). The problem is not whether or not what Donohue is speaking is the truth (he often is), but that he so often speaks it without love. It is not what he says that is wrong (usually) but how he says it that is wrong.
This is why Donohue needs to be quiet, this is why he is embarrassing us.



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justamom

posted April 1, 2010 at 4:19 pm


I have seen this man many times on TV. He comes across as a hypercritical angry bigot. It doesn’t even matter what subject he is talking about he just sounds like a cranky child. Everyone I know thinks the same thing so I don’t just think it is my observation.
The problem here is not just the abuse it is the fact that the church covered it up. They let these abusers continue to abuse. I find that even worse and I was sexually molested (not in the church). It is absolutely unfathomable to me that they were so worried about their reputation.
And another thing, I can’t tell you how many women I know who were molested by priests, pastors, deacons, etc. It is not just a homosexual problem. I find it so interesting that when it is a male being abused it gets so much coverage but a female…..not so much.



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hlvanburen

posted April 1, 2010 at 4:22 pm


“In attempting to cure the disease, the physician must know what he is dealing with in order to take curative and preventative steps to prevent a recurrence.”
To this amateur, the disease seems to be Bishops who lack the fortitude to dismiss those in their charge from their duties when they have been found to have abused their young parishioners. Whether heterosexual or homosexual it should not matter.
//www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h9O9pDzoOP4MhFpu2FhO326s_y8wD9EQ1E600
From this nearly 50 year old letter:
“He tells Paul VI that treatment for priests who have succumbed to “abnormal, homosexual tendencies” should include psychiatric, as well as spiritual, counseling — but goes on to warn about the dangers of leaving those individuals in ministry.
It shouldn’t take a brain surgeon to understand that the problem facing the Catholic Church is a lack of acknowledgment, from the highest offices within that church, that the inaction of those in charge perpetuated the abuse of those young people who trusted them.
We constantly hear about the small number of priests who abused children…anywhere from 2% to just over 4% by most counts. What we do not hear is the number of overseers (Bishops, Archbishops, Cardinals, and Popes) who willfully looked the other way while it happened. Is it higher? 20%? 40%? More?
The latter is the disease that continues to haunt the Church, Holy Cannoli. If you can tell me how the sexual orientation of these lax leaders has anything to do with that, go right ahead.



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hlvanburen

posted April 1, 2010 at 4:25 pm


“And another thing, I can’t tell you how many women I know who were molested by priests, pastors, deacons, etc. It is not just a homosexual problem. I find it so interesting that when it is a male being abused it gets so much coverage but a female…..not so much.”
Interesting you mention this. The letter I linked to in my earlier post also included the following regarding priests who have affairs with women.
“Where there is indication of incorrigibility, because of the tremendous scandal given, I would most earnestly recommend total laicization,” he wrote. “I say ‘total’ … because when these men are taken before civil authority, the non-Catholic world definitely blames the discipline of celibacy for the perversion of these men.”
“Total laicization” of those who have consensual affairs.
If that be the penalty for those who have sex with the willing, what is the penalty for those whose victims were unwilling?



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Holy Cannoli

posted April 1, 2010 at 4:37 pm


>>> If you can tell me how the sexual orientation of these lax leaders has anything to do with that, go right ahead.
Look, that’s not the subject of this thread and, again, you are deliberately changing the subject.
No one denies that cover-ups were an unconscionable and an integral part of the problems within the Catholic Church and no one (except for you) has suggested that homosexuality has anything to do with those cover ups. However, it’s indisputable that the problem itself was largely the fault of homosexual men. Period.
—————————————————————-
wineinthewater
>>> but that he (Donahue) so often speaks it (the truth) without love.
How would you rephrase the following statement (Sept. 2009) by the Vatican representative Archbishop Tomasi prohibiting homosexuals in the priesthood so that it expressed more “love’?
>>>The sexual abuse crisis in the Catholic Church in the US and abroad was a matter of homosexuals preying on adolescent boys, not one of pedophilia, said the Vatican’s representative at the UN in Geneva, Switzerland.



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Curious

posted April 1, 2010 at 4:38 pm


Just curious for those who say they were abused–how soon after did you report it to the police? to your parents? to anyone?



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Liz

posted April 1, 2010 at 7:02 pm


@HOLY CANNOLI
You write:” However, that’s not the subject of this thread, is it? Donahue was under fire for his claim on CNN that the crisis was one of homosexual origin.”
I say:
The subject on the thread was the fact that Donohue (not Donahue) embarrass some of us with his standing and his obvious quest for attention while portraying himself as the voice of”American Catholics” not so much of the homosexual origin of the current crisis.
Mr. Donohue is a self serving pompous man who chase the attention and lose no opportunity to be in TV. On plenty of occasions defeating the purpose of his appearances because of his personal (quite often misinformed and badly interpreted) position in matters of our Catholic faith- notice that I am not saying matters of our Church because I am one of those Catholics born and raised Catholic, spent childhood in a convent, decided to learn more about other religions for 10 years and returned to Catholicism for the last 25- that since returning decided to separate the business of the Church as an organized religious entity from my faith and the impact and influence it has in my and my family life.
Mr. Donohue does not represent me or anyone in my family, and YES I AM EMBARRASSED !!! Mr. Donohue makes me face those around me with a defensive attitude that I should not need to have, one that should not exist at all if it was not for the fact that he keeps talking to the Media so he can see his name on the news again and again.
Thanks.



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Bryan Healy

posted April 1, 2010 at 7:34 pm


I do not agree with you, Deacon Greg. Bill Donahue has been a great voice in protecting the church against all sorts of claims of bias and slander, and is great to have on our side. While he might have stepped over the line this time, it is by no means a reason to tell him to “shut up.”



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Dennis Ruggere

posted April 1, 2010 at 7:51 pm


I am a survivor of male sexual child abuse. Does anyone give a damn of the harm done the children? Look at the statistics! Most victims do not recover – they end up in the pron industry or drug and alcohol abuse or insane asylums or suicide. In short the victims become part of the walking dead. The priests who are responsible have destroyed another human beings soul. These men are supposed to be followers of Jesus Christ – the greatest Lover ever to walk the earth!! What these priests have done is immoral and from my experience I would castrate them and kick them out of the priesthood. They are sick but tell me what is the excuse of those who have enabled them for so long? Those who have enabled this to go on are sicker then the sick priests who prayed on defenseless children. The church has lost it way and as become the church about Jesus and not the church of Jesus. Best that the church sink into oblivion.



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paul from jersey

posted April 1, 2010 at 8:58 pm


As an attorney involved in assisting religious accused of abuse,the latest case on my docket involves a 30-something man who only now “recalls” with psychiatric assistance a “memory” of being assualted when he was about 14. Once his allegation became public, a second man,represented by the same lawyer, recovered his “memory.” Both refuse to appear before the diocesan tribunal.The religious has been suspended from ministry pursuant to the Dallas agreement. The civil case drags on. The state will not prosecute because the “evidence” is so weak.Limbo. The Donohue’s of the world, and Bill in particular, may be strident at times, but the times seem to call for it. This is especially so when the Obama regime and its “Catholic” collaborators (Sebelius,Keehan,Kmiec et al) work toward schism. The Catholic League is a defender of the Faith. Why not focus your energy on the true enemy ? Keep talking,Bill! Louder!



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Holy Cannoli

posted April 1, 2010 at 9:20 pm


>>> The Donohue’s of the world, and Bill in particular, may be strident at times, but the times seem to call for it.
Exactly. Bill, without doubt, is a pit bull and the times, indeed, do call for one. There seems to be an abundance of pussy cats willing to roll over and make ‘nice nice’ with anti-Christians who wish to deny the facts in order to protect their favorites within the ‘livin’ la vida loca’ community
————————————————————-
Liz, referning to Bill DonOhue wrote:
[he has a] “quest for attention”
[he is] “a self serving pompous man”
[Donohue will] “chase the attention”
[he will] “lose no opportunity to be in TV”
“he keeps talking to the Media so he can see his name on the news again and again.”
Liz: It’s Easter. Don’t be a hater.



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Holy Cannoli

posted April 1, 2010 at 9:29 pm


ATTEMPTS TO CENSOR DONOHUE FAIL
April 1, 2010
Catholic League president Bill Donohue comments on recent attempts to censor him:
TV producers have been telling me for years that my critics have implored them never to invite me back on any program. But they always do. While the media are overwhelmingly liberal, they have an obligation to offer different points of view. Hence, their non-stop invitations asking me to speak.
The latest attempt to silence me comes from GLAAD (Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation), Call to Action and the Interfaith Alliance. The three left-wing organizations have joined hands demanding that the media “ignore Bill Donohue.” Their complaint? My telling the truth about the role homosexual priests have played in the abuse scandal.
The data collected by John Jay College of Criminal Justice show that between 1950 and 2002, 81 percent of the victims were male and 75 percent of them were post-pubescent. In other words, three out of every four victims have been abused by homosexuals. By the way, puberty, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, begins at age 10 for boys.
No problem can be remedied without an accurate diagnosis. And any accurate diagnosis that does not finger the role that homosexuals have played in molesting minors is intellectually dishonest. The cover-up must end. And so must attempts to muzzle my voice. Everything I am saying is what most people already know, but are afraid to say it. It’s time for some straight talk.
http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1819



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Curious

posted April 1, 2010 at 9:57 pm


Who would you rather have defend the faith Bill Donahue or Maureen Dowd? I’ll take Bill.



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CV

posted April 1, 2010 at 11:16 pm


I often cringe when I hear Bill Donohoe speak also. He embarrasses me, and he annoys me. Because of his manner and demeanor, I often find myself thinking that he does more harm than good when he opens his mouth.
However, on this particular issue he makes an important point. Media coverage and commentary on the subject of clerical abuse often makes it sound like the priesthood is packed with pedophiles. The reality is, the vast majority of cases involved same-sex attracted priests who took advantage of their position (and ignored the Church’s teachings and their own vow of celibacy) to lure teenage boys. This is inexcusable and immoral and despicable and damaging, but it’s not the same thing as the horror of true pedophilia, which involves pre-pubescent children.
See Philip Jenkins (a non-Catholic) on the Myth of the Pedophile Priest:
http://www.zenit.org/article-3922?l=english
Does it matter? Yes it does.



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greta

posted April 1, 2010 at 11:48 pm


Just sent a strong support email to Bill. Bad enought having the NY Times and other bash anyone coming out to defend the Pope and trying to set the record straight on any of this stuff without having clergy bashing the defenders. I contribut to his cause of defending the faith when so many stay silent or are afraid to admit what the real issue was in the Catholic Church. Some of the bishops had allowed their seminaries to admit homosexuals into the priesthood and we have paid a terrible price for those sins in the abuse of these victims.
Everything he said here was factual. over 85% of the abused were indeed post pubescent which means that despite the media attempt to use the more inflamatory word pedephila, that was indeed rare over the entire decades of the abuse incidents. So you had 1% of priests involved in abuse and almost 90% of them because of a common homosexual attraction which they commonly use the word ‘twinks’. Many of the homosexuals came in during the Vietnam war era to avoid the draft. My dad owned a bar down the street from a very large seminary and he finally had to stop them from coming in so as to avoid his bar losing other customers turned off by their homosexual antics. The Bishop is a favorite of the left and now passed away, but there were many rumors about him as well.
However, when the Church tried to stop homosexuals from becoming priest, despite the clear report from the commission hired to investigate, the same people attacking the Church now yelled you can’t do that. However, when the number of homosexuals dropped over time, the abuse dropped as well.
Bill’s question about our schools and other insitutions coming out and also stopping this type of activity was a good one. Remember a few years ago when the boy scouts would not allow homosexuals as leaders who would go on camping trips with boys and the media went nuts? Guess the boy scouts look smart today. Is every homosexual attracted to twinks? no, but if you google it, you will see it is a huge issue. I think we should go after any adult of any stripe who has sex in any way with underage boys are girls and they should be put away for a long time. I think Bill would agree with this. Does everyone else here and if not, then you are not concerned about the children, just bashing the Catholic Church.



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Ned Racine

posted April 2, 2010 at 12:15 am


So if I follow Mr. Donohue’s logic correctly, as a 54 year old man I can have sex with a 13 year old girl and it’s not “that bad” because she’s post-pubescent. Mr. Donohue, you’re a reprehensible human being.



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cathyf

posted April 2, 2010 at 12:48 am


The data collected by John Jay College of Criminal Justice show that between 1950 and 2002, 81 percent of the victims were male and 75 percent of them were post-pubescent.
This is a lie.
According to the John Jay study, 40% of the victims were males 11-14, and 35% males 15-17.
By the way, puberty, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, begins at age 10 for boys.
Another lie. Typically, puberty in boys begins at age 12. Puberty in girls begins at 10.
But anyway, your claim was the 75% of the male victims were post-pubescent. Puberty does not end in males until 17-18. (Puberty in girls is complete at about 14.)
However, it’s indisputable that the problem itself was largely the fault of homosexual men. Period.
This is very much disputed by the experts who created the VIRTUS program. Boys at the beginning of puberty, who have no facial hair, high voices, etc., physically resemble adult women more than adult men. In the much larger population, abusers who prey on this particular age group have adult relationships with women and/or post-pubescent girls, and do not have any sexual involvement with adult men. The typical case is a married man with children who preys on his children’s friends, and/or young relatives, and/or children that he has access to by way of a job as a coach, scout leader, etc.
To review the statistics:
40% — boys before puberty (11-12 y.o.) or in early puberty (13-14 y.o.)
35% — boys in mid-late puberty (15-17 y.o.)
19% — girls, the majority of whom have reached menarche
6% — 10 & under, who have not started puberty yet



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George

posted April 2, 2010 at 12:59 am


thank you Greg and cathyf,
How anyone can defind Bill D. is beyond me. I cannot say it any better than Deacon Greg, Bill D. “PLEASE SHUT UP!!”



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Frank

posted April 2, 2010 at 2:08 am


Greta, those nice Mormon men who run the Boy Scouts having been raping boy scouts and covering it up. But at least they’re not gay. I suppose it gives a bot great solace to know that the dirty old man who sodomized him would prefer to be with a woman (or several women).
Decades ago, Catholics like Greta libeled Jews on Good Friday accusing them of murdering Christian children so Jews would be murdered. Now they have a new blood libel and new victims.
Tell me, Greta, do you understand that there is a difference between being a Good Christian and being a Good German?



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Maria

posted April 2, 2010 at 2:13 am


ATTEMPTS TO CENSOR DONOHUE FAIL
“Their complaint? My telling the truth about the role homosexual priests have played in the abuse scandal…The cover-up must end. And so must attempts to muzzle my voice. Everything I am saying is what most people already know, but are afraid to say it. It’s time for some straight talk”.
HOLY CANNOLI–
AMEN! It is time for some straight talk, alright. Is anyone surprised? A sin laden society has tried to convince us, for decades, that homosexuality is normative, that it is not sin. The Catholic Church, lost in the wilderness for decades, also now believes this lie. Now we have conversations about the *virtue* of *celibate gay priests*. I am glad my Father is deceased. Mr. Donahue has the moral courage to risk persecution in an effort to defend the Faith. Do you know what kind of love for God one has to have to defend the truth in this environment? To pretend that the sexual abuse of adolescent boys is not a function of homosexual priests who have infiltrated the Church is to live in a dream world. Pope John Paul ably stated: Ordinary Catholicism will no longer do. Only heroic Catholics will suffice to meet the challenges we face. Mr. Donahue is without fear. God Bless him. Never confuse a man’s love for God with his delivery. Would that there were more Catholic men whose love for the Church renders them capable of manning up like Mr. Donohue.
VIRTUS–Designed by an insurance company. Sex Ed that masquerades as child safety. Oh and and modeled after Planned Parenthood Sex Ed. It is desecrating the innocense of children.



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robert

posted April 2, 2010 at 4:06 am


I say let Donohue have his say. My God he was on Larry King with Sinead O’Conner. If that in itself doesn’t bespeak to the innate cheapness of network ratings games played by shill producers out to make a buck, what does? I can’t decide whose worse, O’Connor or King himself for staging this jello fight. Donohue has a point with the definitions of Pedophilia. But that in itself isn’t the problem. What I find a greater and more perplexing problem id the actual age of consent, country to country, state to state. How can anyone find this rational, let alone hyperventilate over what becomes a crime in one locale and perfectly acceptable fifty miles away? In some Mexican states the age of consent is 12. In Canada, several years ago they raised theirs from 14 to 16.
I really don’t think the problem is homosexuality per se. The church needs to work through its issue of acceptance. However I can assure you that the rumors about Georg Ganswein originate from the gay community itself as an intentional slur to the pope and are highly unlikely.



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Reaganite in NYC

posted April 2, 2010 at 7:23 am


Wow — the “Larry King Live” show is still on the air. Who knew?



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Holy Cannoli

posted April 2, 2010 at 7:52 am


Maria,
>>> A sin laden society has tried to convince us, for decades, that homosexuality is normative, that it is not sin.
And (imo) there’s a push by the Left to do even more today.
You made a solid post and thank you for the kind words. Donohue was interviewed yesterday on Fox by Neil Cavuto. I believe that Bill’s demeanor during this interview would have been acceptable to those who did not approve of his “style” with Larry King. In the CNN interview he was clearly in enemy territory and he knew it. With Cavuto, he was relaxed and discussed the scandal with the same skill as always but in, what some would say, a more dignified manner. Regardless, you are right. Donohue has the guts and the skills to go were few Catholic men would dare to tread.
——————————————–
I have no personal knowledge of ‘Virtus’ but found an interesting item this morning.
>>>among the first organizations to endorse the Virtus program was the Catholic Rainbow Parents, an activist organization of parents of homosexuals that formally rejects Catholic teaching on sexuality. http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/apr/06040706.html
Imagine that?
Have a glorious Easter, Maria!



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jh

posted April 2, 2010 at 9:29 am


“We as faithful Catholics cannot hide behind terminology or try to diminish the harmful effects of the sinful behavior that happened. Trying to divert attention away from the problem by arguing the labels simply conjures up the image of the argument of “it depends on what the defintion of what ‘is’ is”….”
Sigh this is not what is happening. I think to help cure the problem we need to see the proble, so yes the differences are important because in many ways we are dealing with two distinct problems. No one is saying that sex with teenagers is ok (though in our culture we get mixed messages) but it is TWO DISTINCT PROBLEMS. Ignoring that is folly and in the end very counterproductive and in fact might just give us more victims



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Wortslather

posted April 2, 2010 at 9:41 am


Deacon,
Its just great to see your pages used to vilify catholic laymen for defending the Church, and to see your comment boxes used to tear apart loyal catholics who want to see children protected as small-minded, dim-witted bigots.
Usually we have to expend a lot of capital to get this kind of hate and dissension right in your ranks. This time, you did it of your own accord, and on the cusp of the Triduum no less!
Our Father Below will be most delighted



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Klaire

posted April 2, 2010 at 9:48 am


I’m sorry to say Dcn. Greg, that I couldn’t disagree with you more on this issue; and I say that to a Deacon I think the world of and from whom I have been greatly influenced. Maybe I’m missing something, but I’d be curious to know what part active homosexualty is acceptable?
As another writer pointed out, it’s not even disputable anymore that the basis of the sexual abuse problem within the church was rooted in homosexuality. Even the late great and very holy Richard Neuhaus. editor of First Things made that clear. Here’s an excerpt from ‘Faithful Departed’ that quite frankly, can’t be any more spot on:
Lawler adds: “Homosexual influence within the American clergy was not in itself the cause of the sex abuse crisis. The corruption wrought by that influence was a more important factor.” He very gingerly addresses a theory proposed by a number of commentators on the crisis, namely, that bishops engaged in cover-ups and other deceptions because they were threatened with homosexual blackmail. He cites a number of instances in which this appears to be the case and bishops were permitted to resign when their misdeeds could no longer be denied. “The blackmail hypothesis,” he writes, “provides a logical explanation for behavior that is otherwise inexplicable: the bishops’ willingness to risk the welfare of the faithful and their own reputations in order to protect abusive priests.”
I grant you that Bill D doesn’t always have the greatest style, but perhaps sometimes a lone voice has to speak louder, especially in a once great Christian country that is being slowly and ‘skillfully’ conformed into a moral relativism of “homosexual acceptance.” The consequences of a culture steeped in homosexuality are immense. As “gay marriage” becomes the norm out of false compassion, the kind that leads souls on the road to hell, Catholic Chairty adoption agencies are being forced to close. Just last month Catholic health care workers lost coverage owing to the new DC gay marriage law. Worst of all, are the consequences to the family and society as a whole, and consequenlty the total breakdown of a once great country.
For all who agree with you on this, I ask, is it really “love” tip toe around grave sin and lifesytle? I know you know Dcn. Greg that love doesn’t always come in a feel good kind of way. I dare even to say that this “protection” of the “gay lifestyle” so many on this thread seem to embrace is anything BUT love. If we really love our gay brothers, we pray for them, but we don’t “dismiss” the sin, the sin that is at the core of the destruction of the American family. I would even argue that it’s this “Shut up you are embarrasing us” mentality that got the chruch in such deep trouble in the first place. It hurts me to say that Dcn. but it needs to be said. Maybe when this country that so ‘lovingly’ embraces the gay culture sees some of it’s bad fruit up close we can began to live in reality while we still have a small window to save the American Family.
All said, this whole CC sexual abuse issue is a different issue than the item at hand: ” Is Pope Benedict Guilty.” Clearly he is not, yet the voices of the Catholics in America in his defense are a deafing silence, all telling of a country that has lost it’s way to moral relativism, not coincidentially, one of the hallmarks of the teachings of Bebedict XVI.
Let the voices of courage be heard, including Bill D. Had he been around in the 60’s and 70’s at the crux of the abuse, maybe we wouldn’t be where we are today. To hide behind “false compassion” is outrageous, and part of the problem.
For anyone interested in what IMO is a perfectly balanced and factual account, here’s a great Catholic read from yesterday.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/the_scandal_driving_the_church_1.html
Lastly, for all those “upset” over TRUTH, well, today’s Good Friday, and yes, sin is indeed “upsetting”, but not nearly as upsetting as false compassion. Only in truth can we ever really love.



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Klaire

posted April 2, 2010 at 9:53 am


Here’s the link to the Richard Neuhaus essay; fogot to include it.
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2008/02/paved-with-the-skulls-of-bisho
If it doesn’t work, google “first things and skulls of the bishops and Neuhaus



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Your Name

posted April 2, 2010 at 11:04 am


Amazing to see that many of these posters here are still defending this guy to some degree. Where is the outright outrage. Being an atheist myself, I just don’t get it…Do you really want a guy like Donohue speaking on behalf of your faith? Isn’t there someone better suited to the task. I’m not one of those so called “new athiests” But allowing someone like Donohue to represent the Catholic position unchallenged makes way too easy a target for the likes of Christopher Hitchens and PZ myers et al.



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Paul Snatchko

posted April 2, 2010 at 11:05 am


You’re right, Deacon Greg. Thank you for calling for sanity.
Bill Donohue hit the wrong note here. The fact that many cases of abuse involved older teenagers should not be minimized at all — it’s still morally wrong and a crime at any age under 18.
In all this, many in the Church need to give the victims a higher priority in their thoughts and words.
This Good Friday, we need to pray and pray for the victims (and their family members) whose faith may have been shattered by these cases of abuse.



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Ronald King

posted April 2, 2010 at 11:11 am


Deacon Greg, Thank you for speaking out against the ignorance that is present in our beautiful faith. The loudest voices seem to be those who lack the wisdom and understanding of what it means to be a vulnerable human being who seeks healing through the Love of God and the love of neighbor.



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Your Name

posted April 2, 2010 at 11:35 am


Deacon Greg,
This post is another example of how your blog is evolving more and more into a Catholic version of People magazine (i.e. lightweight fluff).
Thank God for Bill Donohue and other aggressive defenders of the faith. The problem is lukewarm Catholics who want to water down the faith and ignore the hard problems and the truthful answers that are facing the Church.
Don’t like Bill? May I suggest taking it up with him personally instead of trashing him on your blog? As a human being we will ALL err at times, and those in the media spotlight get to see their “mistakes” highlighted and skewed (and I’m not agreeing that he was off base here)so cut him some slack. True, no one has appointed him an official spokesperson but he is quite the antidote to the Richard McBriens and Maureen Dowds of this embarrassing age. We need others willing to stand up and defend from attacks both outside and INSIDE the Catholic Church.
Shut up indeed-get a clue about today’s reality please.



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rminva

posted April 2, 2010 at 12:03 pm


Isn’t “shut up” what all liberals and leftists such as yourself (and other posters on this blog) want their opponents to do.
Apparently, you cannot handle or factually debate a man who actually stands up against individuals (you) who water down the word of the Lord in the name of political correctness. Your only choice is to “shut up” such individuals.
You should be embarrassed about your “shut up” call. But, hey, you should find some consolation in that the atheists on this board agree with you.



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romancrusader

posted April 2, 2010 at 12:06 pm


With all due respect Deacon,
You should have done this privately. Another thing too, part of what may have gotten Mr Donohue in trouble is that Gay lobby doesn’t want people to think that it was gay priests who were recruiting gay boys into their ranks. That’s what it’s really all about. The gays are just mad that Mr. Donohue pointed out that important piece of information.



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Curious

posted April 2, 2010 at 12:11 pm


Hey Paul Snatchko, how about some prayers for the priest abusers and the good priests whose reputations have been destroyed by false accusations and those who are looked down on because of the sins and crimes of their brothers?????????



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vladimir998

posted April 2, 2010 at 3:03 pm


There seems to be an enormous amount of ignorance among those commenting on the deacon’s comemnts.
NM, you think Bill D. is uneducated? Doesn’t he have a PhD?
To me many of the posters here seem to have a smugness about them. Bill D. is actually doing something and is effective while you’re just posting ignorant comments on the internet.



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NM

posted April 2, 2010 at 3:30 pm


If he does, it doesn’t show.
He calls the molestation of post-pubescant teens “homosexuality”. Yes, because if you molest a post-pubescant 13 year old, then it’s a “homosexual” problem, with the implication the victim is somehow complicit in his own abuse.
And I guess the female abuse victims just don’t register on his radar — doesn’t fit his usual anti-homosexual tirade.
Yeah, that’s real educated…
And how do you know what any of us in particular does in real life?
What are you doing besides posting ignorant comments on the internet?



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K

posted April 2, 2010 at 4:14 pm


I am astounded that would would attack a person who is one of the few educated, Roman Catholic people who is trying to defend our Faith. You are rude and ignorant. He takes a lot of abuse (now from an ordained person) to try and inform people about facts. You and your kind are so concerned about “shutting up” everyone and yourself included, that you are not letting the light of truth come though. I am sorry I haven’t seen your face on TV, getting lambasted by anti-cathoic media fly-bys. No you are sitting in front of your screen writing vitriole. What have you done to defend our Faith? You owe him an apology, but I doubt you will. Your arrogance is obvious. Since you can do sooooo much better than he, go ahead. Or keep writing crap and never speaking up.



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Jerry

posted April 2, 2010 at 8:54 pm


Deacon could you be specific as to what was false in the comments Donohue made. There is a real difference between paedophilia – sex with a pre-pubescent child, and sex abuse of a post pubescent child. Generally the Law recognises the difference also by imposing a more severe punishment for the former. Donohue was simply stating the facts.



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Greta

posted April 2, 2010 at 10:54 pm


Facts are a hard thing to fight. Cathy f nice try. first you list
“John Jay study, 40% of the victims were males 11-14, and 35% males 15-17″
So 75% by your numbers were boys between the ages of 11-17. If one were hauled into court for abusing this age group they would not be charged with paedophilia. The would be charged with abuse of a minor if they were brought to court at all. And it would not get to court if it were decades old alegations especially if there were a big money potential behind it. If you remove the pot of money to lawyers and the abused in these cases, often in the millions, about 80% would have gone away.
My point is not to condone it in any way. In fact, I think anyone who abuses children under age and those who cover up the crime should be prosecuted with the key thrown away. I do not care if it is a priest, school teacher, or anyone else. However, not getting all the facts in the crime makes no sense at all in stopping the crime. For years now, homosexuals have been a protected class. First with the AIDs crisis where we were not supposed to mention the fact that is was almost totally a gay disease. Millions of people died from this failure around the world. Anyone who said anything like this of course was bashed by the left and there partner the MSM. If you google “twinks boys” it does not pop up with thousand of hits for priests, but the homosexual community porn. Of course it shows the boys being 18 to avoid trouble, but none would sell if the boys in the sites did not look more like boys 11-17. The underground homosexual porn industry is huge in this with actual boys that age. NAMBLA is pushing for legalizing this abuse. So if everyone is concerned about the children, lets rally around people like Bill who tried to point that out on the above show. He said he was not condoning it and thought it should be prosecuted everyhwere. This of course has nothing to do with the handwringing over the boys, but is out and out Catholic Church bashing by those who hate the Catholic Church and were fired up when the bishops solidly came out against the baby killing locked into the healthcare reform. It brings out all the dissenters on things like women priests which is settled for all time in the Catholic Church and can never be changed no matter how much the left cries for it. And thank goodness the Church cared enough about the children to stop the lefts acceptance of homosexuals in the seminaries. Now if the left will only care enought to admit this is a very serious problem in the homosexual community and join the groups to end abuse of children. Lets put every abuser in jail until we are certain it is safe for the children to set them free. We certainly would not want to free someone on society that was an abuser.
Everyone should read this letter as it shows a lot of study has gone into the issue and should be a clarion call to all who do not understand the nature of this problem and want to deny its relevence to the homosexuals http://www.zenit.org/article-4796?l=english



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Joseph J Cleary

posted April 2, 2010 at 11:17 pm


Deacon Greg:
While I would usually say that ” shut up ” is not very charitable, perhaps in this instance, at this time I can only say ” amen”
His sound-bite left millions of americans thinking he ( and all Catholics) are somehow minimizing the abuse of children and the massive cover up by the chanceries as simply ” homosexual” sex with older boys. Gee thanks for defending us Mr Donohue.
Perhaps a novice to television interviews would have not understood how sound-bites work. But Donohue is person who hasn’t turned down an interview to be the “Church defender” in at least fifteen years in my observation. Thus the request from Deacon Greg for him to quietly sit down and quit the bombast and let far more knowledgeable and articulate spokespeople ( such as John Allen or even most of our Bishops ) explain and yes even defend the church.
Parsing the statistics doesn’t make any of this less then RAPE– both morally and legally. And Greta– please show evidence that an adult raping boys (or girls) who are in the 5th to 8th grades will somehow be considered ‘only’ an abuse of a minor.
Grouping 10 to 14 year old boys in the same category as say 17 year olds to make a broad generalization that is just about homosexual priests also needs evidence.



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Fr. Jim

posted April 2, 2010 at 11:22 pm


Amen, Greg. Amen.



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cathyf

posted April 2, 2010 at 11:50 pm


Greta, the calumny is quite simple — all this talk about post-pubescent boys is simply the claim that it was really the priests who were the victims — lured into homosexuality by all of those post-pubescent perverts. The actual facts are that puberty in human males lasts a long time, and only those boys who start puberty early are finished with it by the time that they reach 18. This whole scandal has been about boys who are legally underage — this constantly claiming that priests were having sex with post-pubescent boys is an attempt to change the subject. Perhaps there is a huge problem with priests having sex with boys 18-and-over, but it’s not against the law, and society does not feel any obligation to protect the (legally) adults of that age group, with the exception of non-consensual sex.
I have a daughter in the sixth grade and a son who is a sophomore in high school. I am a part time employee of a grammar school. I am a musician who sings with many high school students. I spend lots of time around kids this age. In my daughter’s school, there is not a single boy in the 5th or 6th grade whose voice has changed. There is one boy in the 7th grade (who is a splendid baritone), and three of the 8th grade boys. My son the sophomore sang alto until midway through last year, and he didn’t get to the point where he started whining that the tenor part of the Messiah is to high until he was 15-1/2. Thinking about any one of the boys in my daughter’s class, all 11 and 12 — they are certainly boys and not adolescents. They still think girls have cooties, for heavens sake! The attempt to portray junior high boys (the plurality of victims according to the John Jay study) as “adolescents” who would in any way shape or form be able to give any sort of consent to sexual contact with an adult is evil and perverted.



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