'Heaven Is a Place Where You Are Happy'
Barbara Walters explains what heaven means in different religions, whether she'll go to heaven or not, and what happens there.
BY: Interview by Rebecca Phillips
Television journalist Barbara Walters admits she had no religious training and doesn't practice any religion. But after a year spent working on the ABC News special on heaven, Walters found herself fascinated by the afterlife. "I've done years and years of specials," she told Beliefnet, "but I care more about this one than anything I've ever done." For the two-hour program, "Heaven: Where is it? How do we get there?," which airs December 20 at 9 p.m. EST, Walters traveled the world, interviewing dozens of religious leaders, as well as scientists and atheists. The result is an intriguing look at what heaven means in many different religious traditions, what people who claim to have had near-death experiences believe about the afterlife, and why heaven has such a powerful hold on the popular imagination. Walters recently spoke with Beliefnet about what she learned about heaven and her own views of the afterlife.
Why were you interested in covering the topic of heaven?
I found it interesting that as people become more technically oriented all over the world, at the same time people are becoming increasingly spiritual. The success of the Da Vinci code--even though it was a great yawn--also showed people's interest in religion.
|Barbara Walters on different views of heaven|
I also found that for myself, since I've had no religious education, it was so interesting to see the different versions of heaven and what life on earth means. To Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, the purpose of life is to go to heaven. To Rabbi Neil Gillman, there is a heaven, but it's more important to lead a good life. To the Tibetan Buddhists, it is a road to nirvana, and the purpose of life is to be happy. To the atheists, the purpose of life is the purpose of life. To someone who has been close to death, and felt that they had reached heaven in a near-death experience, that's as close as we come to hearing someone's vision of heaven. All of these different aspects--even the scientific view, that some people are born with a gene that makes them more spiritual than others--the more we got into it, the more interesting it became.
What did the religions that you covered have in common when it comes to teachings about heaven?
First of all, the Jewish religion has a great deal in common with the Christian religion because, as Rabbi Gillman points out in the show, Christianity is based on Judaism. Christ was Jewish. There are religions that are very restrictive or judgmental, perhaps, that say, if you do not believe in our faith, you don't go to heaven. This is very compelling, but it's restrictive. We asked the cardinal if there was sex in heaven, and he said that was one of the questions asked of the Lord. [Catholics] believe that they don't need to have sex in heaven, because there is the joy of the Lord. But for Muslims, everything that they don't have on earth is what they get in heaven. They can drink, they can have sex. All of the forbidden pleasures on earth, you can have in paradise.
All of the religions--with the exception of Tibetan Buddhism, which doesn't believe in a heaven--teach that heaven is a better place. At the end of the program, I say that heaven is a place where you are happy. All of the religions have that in common.
Had you thought much about heaven in your personal life before doing this show?
|Barbara Walters on whether she worries about
I think everybody wonders, is there life after death? Recently, when I've been at dinners, I've gone around the table and said, "How many of you believe in life after death?" It's so interesting to see your friends' answers, because sometimes it's very surprising. Sometimes you'll find that husbands and wives disagree.
What I feel more and more is how important it is to live your life in a better way, and not to worry about it. What happens will happen.
That's similar to what the actor Richard Gere tells you on the program.
Yes. He has been a Tibetan Buddhist since he was in his 20s. He tries to live his life to be helpful, which is why the Buddhist philosophy is very appealing to people. It is a philosophy that teaches compassion. We took a little trip after [interviewing the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala] around India for a couple of days. For about three days, I was a wonderful person. Then on the fourth day, I began to yell at my producer. "Why didn't we get that? We should have taken this picture!" But I was great for three days.
If there is a heaven, do you expect to go there?
I have no idea.
Were you taught anything about the afterlife when you were growing up?
No, it's not something that was discussed. I didn't have a very religious family. So this was an education for me.
What was the most surprising thing you learned about heaven from the people you interviewed?
I wouldn't use the word surprising; I was educated. I was inspired by the people who devote their life to their religion, in each case, whether you agree with them or not, trying to do good. I found talking to the young failed suicide bomber the most unsettling and depressing--that there could be that much hatred and ignorance. Some of it I found very funny, and charming, like when the cardinal [McCarrick] told me that when he goes to heaven, he hopes he gets his hair back.
I've done years and years of specials, but I care more about this one than anything I've ever done. I think there's a great need and a great soul-searching in this country.
Returning to the failed suicide bomber you interviewed--what was it like to talk to him?
The Israeli government allowed us to enter a high-security Israeli prison and interview a suicide bomber who didn't make it. To go into that prison, when we finally got permission, and to sit across the desk from him, and to speak to him, and hearing him tell me that as a non-Muslim, I would not go to heaven and that I would go to hell, was a very moving and very frightening and very sad experience.
A similar thing happened with Ted Haggard, an evangelical pastor, who said because you were not a born-again Christian, he couldn't say for certain if you were going to go to heaven. How did it make you feel to be told that you weren't guaranteed a place in heaven?
Well, since I never thought that I was, it didn't depress me too much. And I really do believe that the most important thing is the way you live your life on earth. But I think it's enormously comforting to believe that you're going to see your loved ones.
|Barbara Walters on her favorite prayer|
Although I myself don't go to church or synagogue, I do, whether it's superstition or whatever, pray every time I get on a plane. I just automatically do it. I say the same thing every time.
I say, "Dear God, thank you for all my blessings. Thank you for everything that I have in my life. Take care of my family and make this a safe trip."
Because I feel if I don't, I'm in danger.
From movies to pop songs, heaven has a huge hold on the popular imagination. Why do you think that is?
|Barbara Walters on where heaven is located|
First of all, I think we're all concerned about life on earth and if this is all there is. And because heaven has always been this wondrous, mystical place. Before we had airplanes and astronauts, we really thought that there was an actual place beyond the clouds, somewhere over the rainbow. There was an actual place, and we could go above the clouds and find it.
. Is there a place somewhere? Some of the religions think there is, that there's absolutely a place. Some of them think it's not a place but it's a spiritual feeling. The Buddhists feel that you are recreated as some thing, as an insect, or an animal, or a person, but that you're not in some beautiful shiny place.
Are we closer to heaven or hell?
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