{"id":6168,"date":"2005-12-22T08:40:28","date_gmt":"2005-12-22T08:40:28","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/viamedia\/2005\/12\/hot-topics.html"},"modified":"2005-12-22T08:40:28","modified_gmt":"2005-12-22T08:40:28","slug":"hot-topics","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/2005\/12\/hot-topics.html","title":{"rendered":"Hot Topics"},"content":{"rendered":"

Also via Rocco, the transcription, available in Adoremus<\/em>, of last month’s US bishop’s discussions of the liturgical translations. <\/a>Very interesting reading. Now if we could hear their discussions of sexual abuse matters….<\/p>\n

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Cardinal George<\/strong>: Yes, thanks, Bishop Trautman. As a member of ICEL, as your representative among the eleven bishops who are the ICEL commission, I\u2019d like to nuance a little bit — and bring into this discussion — what has been our discussion when I have been part of the BCL\u2019s discussion. <\/span><\/p>\n

The principle that the people\u2019s parts should not be disturbed presupposes that you have an adequate translation. In the case of a number of people\u2019s parts right now the translation is not adequate. It isn\u2019t always doctrinally wrong, but that isn\u2019t the only criterion, that isn\u2019t the major criterion in Liturgiam authenticam<\/a><\/em>, as such. <\/span><\/p>\n

The other two points I would like to make is that when we approved the translation of the second edition, which has never been received [approved] by the Holy See and therefore is not official, we did change the people\u2019s parts. And this concern wasn\u2019t so evident at that time. Maybe we felt that we had more authority and the people would follow a new translation even if it was something to which they weren\u2019t quite accustomed. <\/span><\/p>\n

And thirdly, I think the work of the BCL is to take the ICEL translations, as has been done in the past. But the idea of itself — [to decide] which are the problematic parts of that translation and submitting them before the general consideration of the entire book — is new. It\u2019s novel in our methodology as a Conference.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Earl Bouyea<\/strong> (Aux. Detroit): I just have a question on page four of your purple book. You have list of texts there that you say, retain some from the 1970 ICEL text — for instance, the Confiteor<\/em>, the Creed, the Suscipiat<\/em>, the Sanctus<\/em>, the Memorial Acclamations and the Agnus Dei<\/em> — that you want to retain from the 1970 ritual. <\/span><\/p>\n

What is the weight of what you\u2019ve done on this page? In other words, when you say these are the \u201crecommendations of the panel\u201d, to whom are they recommendations? To us or to ICEL?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: To ICEL<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Bouyea<\/strong>: So, in other words, you are speaking in our name to ICEL in making these recommendations.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/blockquote>\n

<\/p>\n

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<\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: That is correct. We are also sharing at this point our level of research and our study at this point to the body of bishops. The body of bishops can accept any aspect of our work, but we felt you would want to know where your Committee on Liturgy is at this point. That is why in the consultation we have given you certain texts that we favor or that we are opposed to, others we want to amend.<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span><\/p>\n

Please, Fabian \u2014 Bishop Bruskewitz.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz<\/strong> (Lincoln): I don\u2019t have a copy of Liturgiam authenticam<\/a><\/em> here, but are those three issues in the gold folder — weren\u2019t they mentioned specifically in Liturgiam authenticam<\/a><\/em>?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: The text we\u2019re surveying? You want –?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Bruskewitz<\/strong>: Yes, the ones we\u2019re doing a survey on. The reason I ask that is that I don\u2019t want to have our body of bishops voting something opposed to Liturgiam authenticam<\/a><\/em> without knowing that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: Liturgiam authenticam<\/a><\/em> gives us principles; they don\u2019t give us particular —<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Cupich<\/strong>: Yes there are two issues named in Liturgiam authenticam<\/a><\/em>: the et cum spiritu tuo<\/em> and also the one on ut intra sub tectum meam<\/em> which is in #74. Both of them, I think are in #74. I don\u2019t have \u2014 yes both of them are in #74. They\u2019re both mentioned specifically.*<\/span><\/p>\n

* (NB – LA 56, which says: \u201cCertain expressions that belong to the heritage of the whole or of a great part of the ancient Church, as well as others that have become part of the general human patrimony, are to be respected by a translation that is as literal as possible, as for example the words of the people\u2019s response <\/em>Et cum spiritu tuo, or the expression <\/em>mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa in the Act of Penance of the Order of Mass\u201d.)<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Bruskewitz<\/strong>: I suspect that also the mea culpa, mea culpa<\/em> might also be in Liturgiam authenticam<\/a><\/em> someplace. But at any rate, I just think that we should know that if we\u2019re voting for the old text we\u2019re in some sense contradicting Liturgiam authenticam<\/a><\/em>.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: In the back please, and then Bishop Weigand.<\/span><\/p>\n

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Bishop Vigneron<\/strong>: I realize that this is my second time to stand, but I think this is a follow-up to my concern. There are thirteen occasions when our Committee is recommending to ICEL keeping the 1970 texts when no one wrote to the Committee to say there was a problem with that text. And I find that very problematic.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: No, that\u2019s not true. We have documentation from the body of bishops in which they have expressed keeping the people\u2019s parts.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Vigneron<\/strong>: Bishop, excuse me. There are, for example, #23 in your footnotes on page 14. At that proposed change to a new translation for ICEL you say there was no episcopal concern expressed in the summer consultation, as I understand this document. But the panel recommends something different, and I find that problematic — unless I misunderstand how this process has evolved.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Cupich<\/strong>: Yes, I think the information is misleading in this sense. There was no particular issue with that phrase, but when it came to changing the whole Creed or the whole Gloria<\/em> there were a number of bishops who said: keep the people\u2019s part. So I think that\u2019s, Bishop Vigneron, where the difficulty is here.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: And I think that was also shown in the slides where we are almost evenly divided on this proposed translation.<\/span><\/p>\n

Please, Bishop Mengeling, and then Bishop Weigand.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Carl Mengeling<\/strong> (Lansing): When we think of the sensitive pastoral concerns, I\u2019m concerned about, and I think many others are: is this a temporary compromise we\u2019re making? Is this going to surface again five years from now? <\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: I would judge that when the new Missal translation comes out it will be permanent for a long duration. So I think what we do now is most important. What I feel also is important is the fact that the US has such an input to other English translations, especially for English-speaking people in other parts of the world. So we want to do it correctly.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Mengeling<\/strong>: I think there is a deeper question in my mind, and that is: Does the sensitivity of the pastoral situation — and we\u2019re all very aware of it with the low percentage of people coming to Mass, and how this is going to impact the ones who are still coming, and the rest of it. Does that justify this compromise, you know, when you try to make an equation of the two? <\/span><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t know the answer to that. But this is a compromise, isn\u2019t it?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: We\u2019re trying to recognize the very point that you raise. Would our people —<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Mengeling<\/strong>: I understand. I\u2019m not accusing you of anything, it\u2019s coming from us.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: There\u2019s a pastoral sensitivity at this point. What can we take to our people in terms of a radical change in the way they have been praying for some thirty years?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Mengeling<\/strong>: I understand that. It\u2019s a tough one to deal with.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: I\u2019d call it an accommodation, more than perhaps a compromise. <\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Mengeling<\/strong>: Accommodation?<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Trautman<\/strong>: Accommodation.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bishop Mengeling<\/strong>: OK. Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Also via Rocco, the transcription, available in Adoremus, of last month’s US bishop’s discussions of the liturgical translations. Very interesting reading. Now if we could hear their discussions of sexual abuse matters…. Cardinal George: Yes, thanks, Bishop Trautman. As a member of ICEL, as your representative among the eleven bishops who are the ICEL commission,…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":180,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6168","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-news"],"yoast_head":"\nHot Topics - Via Media<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/2005\/12\/hot-topics.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Hot Topics - Via Media\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Also via Rocco, the transcription, available in Adoremus, of last month’s US bishop’s discussions of the liturgical translations. 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The Catholicism comes from her side. Amy grew up in a number of places - Indiana - Washington, DC - Lubbock Texas - Arlington, Virginia - DeKalb, Illinois - Lawrence, Kansas - and Knoxville, Tennessee, where the family settled in 1973. She attended Knoxville Catholic High School, then the University of Tennessee where she majored in history. She received an MA in Church History from Vanderbilt University, where she wrote a thesis on the changing role of women in 19th century American Protestantism, and the ways Scripture was used to justify those changes. She worked as as a teacher in Catholic high schools and a Parish Director of Religious Education and started writing for the diocesan press - the Florida Catholic - in 1988. Amy has written columns for Our Sunday Visitor and Catholic News Service at times over the past twenty years. Her articles have been published in venues ranging from Our Sunday Visitor to the New York Times to Commonweal. She has written 17 books. 18, if you included the as yet tragically unpublished novel. Amy has five children, ranging in age from 26 to 4 and was married to Michael Dubruiel, who died unexpectedly in February 2009. She lives in Birmingham, Alabama.","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/author\/awelborn"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6168","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/180"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6168"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6168\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6168"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6168"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/viamedia\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6168"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}