{"id":236,"date":"2009-02-23T08:22:14","date_gmt":"2009-02-23T08:22:14","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/tonyjones\/2009\/02\/comment-of-the-weekend-6.html"},"modified":"2009-02-23T08:22:14","modified_gmt":"2009-02-23T08:22:14","slug":"comment-of-the-weekend-6","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/02\/comment-of-the-weekend-6.html","title":{"rendered":"Comment of the Weekend"},"content":{"rendered":"

I’m glad to see that my weekend quote of Dante<\/a> stirred up some commentary.  Here’s one, from Ben, followed by a response from me. (My apologies for Ben’s masculine language.)<\/p>\n

I’m not sure how to understand Dante’s use of “free will” here but I’m
\nsure I don’t like Pinnock’s use of the term. I think there is some
\nconfusion here and I think it would be helpful to define what we mean
\nby “will.” Clearly no man has the “free will” to fly, run faster than a
\nspeeding bullet, etc because these things are not in his ability to do.
\nMankind’s [sic] nature constrains him, even though he may want to do these
\nthings. Furthermore, man [sic] only ever chooses that which he wants to do.
\n(The person injuring himself chooses bodily pain over emotional pain;
\nthe person who eats collard greens probably values his health more than
\nan a food preference for a Snickers.) It is not anyone “constraining”
\nhim to do these things, but HE IS BOUND by his own nature and desires.
\nSo too, humans make real choices that entail real consequences, but
\nthese are all constrained by nature, and thus are “free” in only a
\nlimited sense. <\/p>\n

Now Paul says, humans are “by nature, children of wrath”
\nwhich means that it is our nature to oppose God, leaving us incapable
\nof doing good. But thanks be to God, that He does not leave us there!
\nBy His grace, God intervenes in the world and lets “children of wrath”
\ndo some good things. Furthermore, some He changes so radically that
\nthey become people who have a nature that loves righteousness and doing
\ngood. It’s like these people are born a 2nd time (John 3). <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

<\/p>\n

Thus, I’d
\nagree with Augustine, Luther, Calvin, and J. Edwards: man has a free
\nwill to make real choices in this world, but that will is bound by
\nman’s “contagion”, by his indwelling sin-nature to oppose God. Thus no
\nman can choose God or Christ or love without God first acting on that
\nperson’s heart to create in them a new desire, love and will. So if
\nsomeone defines “free will” as “ability to choose any option at any
\ntime” then I would vigorously disagree, but I would affirm biblically
\nthat man has “free will” – meaning he makes real choices in the world,
\neven as the Sovereign God guides all things by His eternal decree from
\ninfinity past. I find no conflict in affirming that God has decreed all
\nthings from eternity past and yet humans make real choices in this
\nworld that they will be held accountable for.<\/p>\n

Brian, I would contend that the ideas of God being King (similar to a
\nCaesar – although holy, just, loving…) and being
\ndifferent-from-mankind are biblical, not just from Greek philosophy,
\netc.
\nGenesis 1 – God creates everything that is created and therefore
\nclearly is distinguished as the only being that is completely
\nself-sufficient.
\nMalachi 6:3 – “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children
\nof Jacob are not consumed.”
\nColossians 1:16 – “For by [Jesus] all things were created, in heaven
\nand on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or
\nrulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him.”<\/p>\n

Also – is the line between “coercing” love and “inspiring” love clear
\nfor you? Did my wife inspire my love, or could I not also say that she
\neven coerced my love? Not by physical force or manipulation of course,
\nbut coercion by her beauty, love and charm? I suggest that God’s work
\nin a sinner MUST be one of radical wooing – even “coercion” if you want
\nto call it that – because otherwise His advances would only lead
\nmankind to be all-the-more disgusted with Him, just like Laura Winslow
\nso often became disgusted with the advances of Steve Urkel. The real
\nquestion is – back to the Original Sin discussion – does man have a
\nwill that can simply be re-directed to God (as Laura finally chose
\nUrkel), or is it so diseased and God-opposed that it first needs a “new
\nbirth” in order for the heart to love God and His commandments? For me,
\nthe Bible clearly affirms the latter.<\/p>\n

TJ – I’m curious what was taught at PTS – do most teachers run in the
\nReformed stream and affirm God’s sovereignty, man’s fallen nature, and
\nthe primacy of God’s grace in salvation? Do most \/ many affirm the
\nlibertarian form of free-will espoused by Pinnock (and possible Dante)?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Ben, the answer to your question is that it didn’t even come up, as far as I can remember.  The Reformed vs. Open Theism debate (think Piper vs. Boyd in the 90s) didn’t even make the radar of mainline theologians.  This debate is an exclusively evangelical debate, stemming from a literalistic hermeneutic that has to make sense of every phrase that seems to connote something about the nature of God.<\/p>\n

The question of freewill was discussed a lot in my PhD seminars at Princeton, but always in the context of the sociological: structuralism vs. post-structuralism vs. rational actor theory.  I’m a post-structuralist.  And, no surprise, I think the Bible sets forth a post-structuralist account, too.  In fact, I think much of what Jesus did was to upset the controlling structures and paradigms of his day.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I’m glad to see that my weekend quote of Dante stirred up some commentary.  Here’s one, from Ben, followed by a response from me. (My apologies for Ben’s masculine language.) I’m not sure how to understand Dante’s use of “free will” here but I’m sure I don’t like Pinnock’s use of the term. I think…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":134,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[27,12,17,7],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-236","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-bible","category-comment-of-the-day","category-quote-of-the-week","category-theology"],"yoast_head":"\nComment of the Weekend - The New Christians<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/02\/comment-of-the-weekend-6.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Comment of the Weekend - The New Christians\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I’m glad to see that my weekend quote of Dante stirred up some commentary.  Here’s one, from Ben, followed by a response from me. (My apologies for Ben’s masculine language.) I’m not sure how to understand Dante’s use of “free will” here but I’m sure I don’t like Pinnock’s use of the term. I think…\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/02\/comment-of-the-weekend-6.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The New Christians\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-02-23T08:22:14+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Tony Jones\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Comment of the Weekend - The New Christians","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/02\/comment-of-the-weekend-6.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Comment of the Weekend - The New Christians","og_description":"I’m glad to see that my weekend quote of Dante stirred up some commentary.  Here’s one, from Ben, followed by a response from me. (My apologies for Ben’s masculine language.) I’m not sure how to understand Dante’s use of “free will” here but I’m sure I don’t like Pinnock’s use of the term. 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