{"id":184,"date":"2009-01-30T08:25:42","date_gmt":"2009-01-30T08:25:42","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-25.html"},"modified":"2009-01-30T08:25:42","modified_gmt":"2009-01-30T08:25:42","slug":"comment-of-the-day-25","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-25.html","title":{"rendered":"Comment of the Day"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Why does a close examination of the doctrine of <a href=\"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/original-sin-the-genesis-of-a.html\">Original Sin<\/a> matter? Because it is the &#8220;foundation&#8221; upon which much other Western doctrine is based. Scott M, take it away:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><\/p>\n<p>Hmmm. Part of the problem may be that we<br \/>\nhave fixed names for these characters, &#8216;Adam&#8217; and &#8216;Eve&#8217;. In truth, if<br \/>\nit is used as a proper name, &#8216;Adam&#8217; is not so used until Chapter 4.<br \/>\nBefore then, the references are to &#8216;ha-adam&#8217;. (Pardon me for any<br \/>\ninaccuracies. I&#8217;m hardly a language expert.) The &#8216;little ground'(?) and<br \/>\nelsewhere the man and the woman. We also totally miss in translation<br \/>\nthe play on words.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ve never found it particularly important to the story whether or<br \/>\nnot there were two specific people involved. By the time we start<br \/>\ngetting a family narrative in Chapter 4, we see when Cain is exiled<br \/>\nthat there seem to be plenty of others outside his family for him to be<br \/>\nworried about. Chapters two and three have a pretty different feel to<br \/>\nthem. And referencing &#8216;the man&#8217; and &#8216;the woman&#8217; fairly generically<br \/>\nseems to me a good stand-in for referencing humanity. (In that sense, I<br \/>\ndo think it is paradigmatic, though probably not the word I would<br \/>\nchoose.)<\/p>\n<p>However, we are born into a world which has been damaged by eikons<br \/>\nof the Creator reflecting other than that Creator into it and by eikons<br \/>\ntrying to become the eikon of something else. In that sense, we inherit<br \/>\nthe consequences of sin. However, just as the Resurrection is not<br \/>\nmerely some historical event (though it must be that), but indeed the<br \/>\ncenter of reality &#8212; including time, so too I don&#8217;t see &#8216;sin&#8217; as a<br \/>\npurely linear, historical progression. We do not just affect ourselves<br \/>\nwith our &#8216;sin&#8217; or those we directly touch. Rather, in ways we do not<br \/>\nsee we affect all reality, of necessity including time. So we are born<br \/>\n&#8216;in Adam&#8217; and indeed inevitably participate with Adam. In that sense,<br \/>\nwe are all Adam. Nothing less seems to make sense of either Scripture<br \/>\nor Jesus to me. So to say that creation is affected by our sin does not<br \/>\nto me imply a time when it was not so affected simply because we did<br \/>\nnot yet exist in a linear progression of time.<\/p>\n<p>I think there are many problems with the Western doctrine of<br \/>\noriginal sin. But not least among those problems is the fact that it<br \/>\neffectively trivializes the true problem. I think that&#8217;s why the<br \/>\nResurrection has, for the last thousand years in the West, become<br \/>\nincreasingly adjunct, often little more than a add-on, and from there a<br \/>\nshort step to unnecessary. I saw that very clearly a few years ago<br \/>\nreading an SBC publication (the denomination to which I suppose I<br \/>\n&#8216;belong&#8217;). There were a lot of articles talking about and defending the<br \/>\nResurrection. But when it came to describing the &#8216;why&#8217; or what it<br \/>\nmeant, the most they could say was that it &#8216;proved the Father had<br \/>\naccepted the payment of the Son.&#8217; I was stunned. I suppose I still am.<\/p>\n<p>As I&#8217;ve tried to say, there&#8217;s a lot more at stake in how you view<br \/>\nthis question than is immediately evident. It sends shoots everywhere.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Why does a close examination of the doctrine of Original Sin matter? Because it is the &#8220;foundation&#8221; upon which much other Western doctrine is based. Scott M, take it away: Hmmm. Part of the problem may be that we have fixed names for these characters, &#8216;Adam&#8217; and &#8216;Eve&#8217;. In truth, if it is used as&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":134,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[27,12,7],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-184","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-bible","category-comment-of-the-day","category-theology"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v23.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Comment of the Day - The New Christians<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-25.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Comment of the Day - The New Christians\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Why does a close examination of the doctrine of Original Sin matter? Because it is the &#8220;foundation&#8221; upon which much other Western doctrine is based. Scott M, take it away: Hmmm. Part of the problem may be that we have fixed names for these characters, &#8216;Adam&#8217; and &#8216;Eve&#8217;. In truth, if it is used as&hellip;\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-25.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The New Christians\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-01-30T08:25:42+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Tony Jones\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Comment of the Day - The New Christians","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-25.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Comment of the Day - The New Christians","og_description":"Why does a close examination of the doctrine of Original Sin matter? Because it is the &#8220;foundation&#8221; upon which much other Western doctrine is based. Scott M, take it away: Hmmm. Part of the problem may be that we have fixed names for these characters, &#8216;Adam&#8217; and &#8216;Eve&#8217;. In truth, if it is used as&hellip;","og_url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-25.html","og_site_name":"The New Christians","article_published_time":"2009-01-30T08:25:42+00:00","author":"Tony Jones","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-25.html","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-25.html","name":"Comment of the Day - The New Christians","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/#website"},"datePublished":"2009-01-30T08:25:42+00:00","dateModified":"2009-01-30T08:25:42+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/#\/schema\/person\/a5d6dffe0f41c25b4bd8136be22c4074"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-25.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-25.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-25.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Comment of the Day"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/","name":"The New Christians","description":"Tony Jones on Christianity and the Emerging Church","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/#\/schema\/person\/a5d6dffe0f41c25b4bd8136be22c4074","name":"Tony Jones","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/d50\/d50708c3731048719806adf9c6f6df30x96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/d50\/d50708c3731048719806adf9c6f6df30x96.jpg","caption":"Tony Jones"},"description":"Tony Jones is the author of The New Christians: Dispatches from the Emergent Frontier and several other books on Christianity and prayer.","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/author\/tjones"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/184","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/134"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=184"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/184\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=184"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=184"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=184"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}