{"id":168,"date":"2009-01-23T07:38:54","date_gmt":"2009-01-23T07:38:54","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-21.html"},"modified":"2009-01-23T07:38:54","modified_gmt":"2009-01-23T07:38:54","slug":"comment-of-the-day-21","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-21.html","title":{"rendered":"Comment of the Day"},"content":{"rendered":"

Mike Morrell<\/a> got off his ROM long enough to serve up this beauty under Announcing Queermergent<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\n

Well, I’m coming in on this discussion late – which is probably
\nmerciful. I think that, before posting on such things, we need to do a
\nquick blood-pressure check. If its too high, then it’s probably not the
\nHoly Spirit, no matter *what* our views on Subject XYZ are!<\/p>\n

For some reason as I write this comment, Preson Phillips is the one
\nmost on the forefront here. I feel like yours was one of the most
\npained responses, like were having to give up a good friend because
\nthey messed up your parents house while partying for the last time. But
\nI have to ask: Why is *this* of all things the Conversation-killer? We
\nall agree that human sexuality is God-given and very important…so
\nlet’s stay engaged. (Oh, and everyone knows that ‘Valkyrie’ toward the
\ntop was being very sarcastic and just trying to stir the hornets
\nnest…right? I feel like s\/he got these comments started on combative
\nterms with some hyperbolic statements in Tony’s ‘favor’)<\/p>\n

What follows is not an attempt to change anyone’s mind about the
\nsinfulness or blessedness of homosexual orientation and practice. We
\nall have our perspectives, and they change like glaciers, not ice
\ncubes. Rather, I want to lay out in as concise a manner as possible my
\nown readings, prayer, and reflection in this these past few years,
\nshowing essentially four different options people of faith have in this
\nregard. I’m pretty sure we all fall into one of these four
\nunderstandings. My goal in showing them in a descriptive,
\nmatter-of-fact manner is to humanize all four perspectives, so that we
\ndon’t demonize one another.<\/p>\n

By way of a quick prelude: I will not be handling any Old Testament
\npassages that describe or seem to describe homosexual activity as an
\n‘abomination.’ That is because these very same passages (as
\nGodHatesShrimp.com<\/a> humorously points out) describe many other things as
\n‘abominations,’ our English translations belying the fact that this
\nword simply denotes that which is cultically unacceptable to the ritual
\npurity of set-apart Israel. So I will exclusively look at the three New
\nTestament passages, which all happen to be by Paul (Jesus doesn’t
\nmention homosexuality in the Gospels). I’m not even going to go into
\nPaul’s passages in-depth, but they’re the ones in I Corinthians 6,
\nRomans 1 and 1 Timothy 1:10.<\/p>\n

The four options, as I’ve seen them, are as follows:<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

<\/p>\n

\n

1.) Paul *is* addressing contemporary homosexual orientation\/practice and this *does* matter<\/p>\n

2.) Paul *is* addressing contemporary homosexual orientation\/practice and this *doesn’t* matter<\/p>\n

3.) Paul *isn’t* addressing contemporary homosexual orientation\/practice and that *does* matter<\/p>\n

4.) Paul *isn’t* addressing contemporary homosexual orientation\/practice and it *doesn’t* matter<\/p>\n

\n1.) This is the standard view in most evangelical churches as well as
\nthe official Roman Catholic and East Orthodox perspective. In essence,
\nour English translations of ‘homosexual’ in the NT are to be trusted
\nand affirmed as addressing precisely the same kind of homosexual
\norientation and activity as we see today among monogamous and
\nnon-married homosexual persons. Because Scripture is inspired and
\nprofitable for teaching, we should see this as prescriptive for moral
\nand Godly living today, teaching it accordingly.<\/p>\n

2.) Paul is talking about contemporary homosexual
\norientation\/action, but it’s up to us, the Church, to decide whether
\nthis is binding for today. Now lest you think this is an option only
\nfor hippie-dippy liberal revisionists, think again: The church *always*
\ninterprets Scripture for today. The evangelical church, for instance,
\ndecided that was Jesus told one guy (Nicodemus) about being ‘born
\nagain’ was binding on all people everywhere, whereas what he told
\nanother guy (the rich young ruler) about selling all possessions and
\ngiving them to the poor was virtually never applicable! We’ve also
\ndecided that Peter’s admonition of women not to wear braids or jewelry
\nbecause of sinful pride was culturally-conditioned and temporary, as is
\nPaul’s admonition of women to wear head-coverings, even though he seems
\nto appeal to some pretty cosmic and universal principles for doing so.
\nIn the same manner, some good Christian people (and churches) conclude
\nthat Paul was simply mistaken about homosexual orientation &
\npractice, or that his teaching was culturally-appropriate for his era
\nbut actually harmful and contrary to the Gospel for ours. We the Church
\nare always ‘binding an loosing’ interpretations of our Holy Writ…an
\nawesome and wonderful responsibility.<\/p>\n

3.) Many biblical scholars puzzle over the actual meaning of
\narsenokoitai, the Greek word Paul used which is translated from King
\nJames on as ‘homosexuals.’ (See explanation) In short, many think that
\nPaul is writing about pedastry – man-boy love – and temple prostitution
\nwhere otherwise ‘straight’ people become ‘gay for a day’ (only not
\nreally) to engage in debasing pagan rituals. So Paul is in fact,
\naccording to this perspective, writing about the primacy of love and
\nconsideration, and against harmful idolatry. 2,000 years of translation
\nlater and we lose sight of context and original intent. Most
\nsociologists agree that contemporary loving, monogamous homosexual
\norientation didn’t even exist until relatively contemporary
\ntimes…therefore we are dealing with, strictly speaking, an
\n‘extra-biblical’ phenomenon that should, perhaps, be looked at through
\na different lens than seemingly ‘obvious’ passages in Scripture. We
\nshould instead appeal to Jesus and Paul’s clear teaching on love,
\nfreedom and liberty of conscience, while upholding healthy Christian
\nstandards of monogamy and sexuality that we’d encourage anyone of *any*
\norientation to keep as best as possible.<\/p>\n

4.) Number 4 is a bit of a non-sequitur, as I think you can see. : )<\/p>\n

My personal .02: I think it’s possible to hold any of these four
\n(really three) perspectives with love and integrity, shining Christ’s
\nlife into everyone we meet. I also think it’s possible to hold any of
\nthese with pride, fear, and hostility, using them as battering rams to
\nforce those who disagree into feeling marginalized, sinful, and ‘less
\nthan.’ One of the things I’ve appreciated about certain trends emerging
\nexpressions of faith is that people who hold to all three of the above
\n(and yes, there are plenty of ’emergers’ who hold to #1) can peacefully
\ncoexist and even encourage one another. Thanks Tony for your
\n(sometimes-seemingly futile) attempts to create a spiritually
\nhospitable place for everyone.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Mike Morrell got off his ROM long enough to serve up this beauty under Announcing Queermergent: Well, I’m coming in on this discussion late – which is probably merciful. I think that, before posting on such things, we need to do a quick blood-pressure check. If its too high, then it’s probably not the Holy…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":134,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[12,21],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-168","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-comment-of-the-day","category-glbt"],"yoast_head":"\nComment of the Day - The New Christians<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-21.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Comment of the Day - The New Christians\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Mike Morrell got off his ROM long enough to serve up this beauty under Announcing Queermergent: Well, I’m coming in on this discussion late – which is probably merciful. I think that, before posting on such things, we need to do a quick blood-pressure check. If its too high, then it’s probably not the Holy…\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-21.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The New Christians\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-01-23T07:38:54+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Tony Jones\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Comment of the Day - The New Christians","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-21.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Comment of the Day - The New Christians","og_description":"Mike Morrell got off his ROM long enough to serve up this beauty under Announcing Queermergent: Well, I’m coming in on this discussion late – which is probably merciful. I think that, before posting on such things, we need to do a quick blood-pressure check. If its too high, then it’s probably not the Holy…","og_url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-21.html","og_site_name":"The New Christians","article_published_time":"2009-01-23T07:38:54+00:00","author":"Tony Jones","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-21.html","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-21.html","name":"Comment of the Day - The New Christians","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/#website"},"datePublished":"2009-01-23T07:38:54+00:00","dateModified":"2009-01-23T07:38:54+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/#\/schema\/person\/a5d6dffe0f41c25b4bd8136be22c4074"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-21.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-21.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/2009\/01\/comment-of-the-day-21.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Comment of the Day"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/","name":"The New Christians","description":"Tony Jones on Christianity and the Emerging Church","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/#\/schema\/person\/a5d6dffe0f41c25b4bd8136be22c4074","name":"Tony Jones","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/d50\/d50708c3731048719806adf9c6f6df30x96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/d50\/d50708c3731048719806adf9c6f6df30x96.jpg","caption":"Tony Jones"},"description":"Tony Jones is the author of The New Christians: Dispatches from the Emergent Frontier and several other books on Christianity and prayer.","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/author\/tjones"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/168","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/134"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=168"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/168\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=168"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=168"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/tonyjones\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=168"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}