{"id":147,"date":"2014-05-19T15:55:55","date_gmt":"2014-05-19T15:55:55","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/?p=147"},"modified":"2014-05-19T16:06:50","modified_gmt":"2014-05-19T16:06:50","slug":"does-jesus-unite-or-divide","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/2014\/05\/does-jesus-unite-or-divide.html","title":{"rendered":"Does Jesus unite or divide?"},"content":{"rendered":"

“Jim and I have been called America\u2019s Spiritual Odd Couple. I thought about that. Why are we an odd couple? We\u2019re never at odds. We\u2019re not arguing. We may be different but we\u2019re not arguing. I\u2019d like to help people stop throwing down the gauntlet on these issues. When someone throws down the gauntlet, I usually just pick it up and throw it in the trash. I\u2019m not interested in fighting. What we hope to show people is that it \u00a0makes your life a lot more interesting when you embrace the differences of various people.” \u00a0Matt Casper<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

Gayle Trotter<\/strong>: I\u2019m speaking with Jim Henderson and Matt Casper about their new book, <\/span>Saving Casper: A Christian and an Atheist Talk about Caring Versus Scaring Evangelism.<\/i> Jim and Matt, thank you for joining me.\u00a0 Jim, you and Matt go off on this adventure together to do research in the belly of the beast for an atheist \u2013 in the church \u2013 to find out exactly what churches are projecting that they might not even know that they\u2019re projecting.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jim, you are from a Christian background and you would call yourself a believer. What do you mean in your title of \u201ccaring versus scaring evangelism?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Jim Henderson<\/strong>: That idea grew out of my frustration as a believer and later as a pastor around the lack of practice of evangelism. I decided to start to explore and experiment with new ways of approaching it since I wasn\u2019t running into anything that worked for the people I was pastoring. I started exploring ways that evangelism could become a spiritual practice along the lines of prayer or reading the Bible. It\u2019s just something that we do. It takes work. It takes commitment, etc. But we don\u2019t have the anxiety around it, and it\u2019s virtually impossible for Christians to imagine, still today.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Matt, you describe yourself in the book as currently an atheist. Part of the book\u2019s aim, and was to describe what an atheist sees as he approaches the doors of the church, as he walks in the doors of the church, as he sits and listens to the service, and all of the interactions in the church. You bring up church signs and your take on what church signs say currently and what you think could be a better message. Atheists are paying attention to these church signs.<\/span><\/p>\n

Matt Casper<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They certainly are. What we see in a lot of these church signs is a lot of wasted real estate, frankly. Churches tend to use them sometimes to test their punning abilities. What you want to do is to be much more targeted in the people you\u2019re trying to reach. It\u2019s very much what churches have out there. The signs typically use \u201cme\u201d language, and it needs to be new language. Their signs are basically saying here\u2019s what we are going to be talking about, not here\u2019s what we want to do for you.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>: Is that what you see?<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>: Or sometimes, you see on these signs a couple of threats \u2013 you know, repent or whatever \u2013 and that\u2019s not going to get everybody to come in. They could probably do this a little better if they really thought more about how a local farmer\u2019s market gets people to come there. They\u2019re not threatening people. They\u2019re saying, \u201cHere\u2019s kind of what we have to offer.\u201d I always felt that if I went by a church sign and saw that it was offering something unique like a double espresso for every atheist that comes this Sunday. That\u2019s something that wakes up my mind. Instead of just another church sign, it\u2019s a very targeted and interesting message that\u2019s relevant and unique.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Matt, you write about your parents\u2019 faith and journeys with different denominations. You go detail your mom\u2019s faith journey and how towards the end of her life, she was involved with the Catholic Church and ended up being drawn into the Catholic Church. You give a lot of credit to the Catholic parishioners who, when she came down with cancer, took her into their homes and took care of her and loved her and didn\u2019t put any conditions on it. Do you see that that is a symbol of God\u2019s unconditional love for us? Or do you see that as those people using their faith to allow them to love someone unconditionally?<\/span><\/p>\n

JH<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s a great question, Matt.<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019d have to go with the latter because the first would mean that I believe there\u2019s a God who has unconditional love for us. I think that their faith was part of what drove them to do this amazing thing. I\u2019d like to know from them, \u201cDo you think you would\u2019ve done this were you not Catholic?\u201d I think that they would probably say that question is irrelevant because we are Catholic and nothing is going to change that. But I would want to know. I\u2019m sure we can find examples across every faith \u2013 and non-faith, too \u2013 of people who do these extraordinary things, who do make sacrifices for the wellbeing of others that they don\u2019t even know all that well.<\/span><\/p>\n

I think in this case, though, a lot of it was fueled by this community, this centered community and the purpose that these people had by belonging to this church drove them to do something. They\u2019re ultimately selfless. I give credit to their faith and their belief in God\u2019s unwavering love for helping fuel their actions.<\/span><\/p>\n

I think that religion is a good thing for good people and a bad thing for bad people. I\u2019m not in any position to judge who\u2019s good or bad. But here we have good people who speak up and do something beyond good.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jim, you tell a really fascinating story where you and Matt go to speak to a group of young people and you share with them about what you\u2019re doing and what your background is. You ask them this really harsh question. You put them on the spot. You both seem upset at the response<\/span><\/p>\n

JH<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right. I asked them how many of them thought Matt was going to go to hell, correct?<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes. What was the response?<\/span><\/p>\n

JH<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Matt, you\u2019ll have to help me remember \u2013 but I think most people raised their hand confirming it. Is that right?<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I remember that very clearly.<\/span><\/p>\n

JH<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, you probably would. [Laugh] Let me just tell you. You want to know why I asked the question, Gayle?<\/span><\/p>\n

JH<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You know enough to know that the general proposition that evangelical Christianity, which is functionally the civil religion of America over the last forty years, the central offering it is making in the marketplace is accept Jesus, you go to heaven, you don\u2019t, you go to hell. That\u2019s much how it\u2019s understood, particularly without the nuances. That\u2019s the pitch. Now I\u2019m not commenting on if it\u2019s valid or anything.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right, right.<\/span><\/p>\n

JH<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Given that, when people are raised with that, I think that they are responsible to take a stand if they\u2019re going to be consistent with their beliefs. Regardless of how moderate evangelicals are, this is ultimately the position they\u2019re assigned to. In fact, Catholics actually believe this, as well. I don\u2019t understand why anyone would be reluctant to admit ownership of that and why they can\u2019t be held accountable for giving an answer about that. In fact, what I wanted to do was create a dilemma for them. I had this other theory that, in fact, when people like each other, the rules change. When it doesn\u2019t touch our beliefs, then it doesn\u2019t go to the foundation. It doesn\u2019t get past that. It\u2019s like, \u201cWell, I like Matt but he\u2019s going to hell so too bad.\u201d I want people to feel the cognitive dissonance around that so that was my purpose in asking that question.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What do you think is the end result of posing that question? Obviously for Matt, from what he wrote in the book, it was very painful to hear that. It wasn\u2019t necessarily for his benefit. For the people in the audience, what do you think they received from that question?<\/span><\/p>\n

JH<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think they\u2019re still thinking about it. I think they\u2019re still thinking about it today because no one else has ever asked them that question.<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think that Jim said he doesn\u2019t have to guess at their motivations. I do. They are not trying to reach Jim; they\u2019re trying to reach me. To have the person you\u2019re trying to connect with in a position where they\u2019re guessing about your deeply held beliefs and your motivations is a nonstarter. What that question does is it forces transparency. Think about a different issue that\u2019s not related to faith like racism. You can\u2019t have a discussion about racism without first kind of being transparent about your take on it. There\u2019s nothing wrong with admitting that people of different races are different. It\u2019s being transparent about these kind of complicated issues that I think helps us kind of come to find some common ground. I personally don\u2019t think it\u2019s unfair to ask somebody about their deeply held beliefs, especially when they want to share those beliefs with you. Some of the thorniest parts of those beliefs have to come in a question. What we do with a question like that is we force them to be more transparent about their beliefs with themselves and with us, and with the people they\u2019re trying to reach. It\u2019s a good question because I do think it is a cup of cold water in the face. That can be a good thing for a lot of folks.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>: A good thing?<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The question should make me more uncomfortable than it does. This answer, basically that I\u2019m being condemned to hell by a roomful of strangers and they\u2019re the ones that are uncomfortable with that, not me.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019ve done a lot of reading of Christopher Hitchens and other people whom I don\u2019t think resemble you at all. They do seem to have a visceral reaction to that doctrine. I\u2019ve never understood that because as an atheist, hell does not exist. Maybe I\u2019m asking too personal a question, but is the reason there\u2019s a visceral reaction to it is because the person who hears that thinks that the people wish that for them? Or is there something else going on?<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, that\u2019s part of it. I think that it\u2019s insulting. When you, as a believer, tell a nonbeliever you think they\u2019re going to hell, it is insulting and judgmental. It\u2019s condemning. There\u2019s nothing positive about that statement. That\u2019s why there is such a visceral reaction, even though we don\u2019t believe it exists. Someone tells you to shut the hell up, it doesn\u2019t mean you have to be quiet. It\u2019s still insulting, though.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes.<\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Someone tells me I\u2019m going to go to hell, but it doesn\u2019t mean I\u2019m going there. It\u2019s still insulting. I\u2019ve heard it enough times that I\u2019m no longer insulted by it perhaps and therefore, it\u2019s absolutely lost its effectiveness. That\u2019s why it\u2019s the scaring thing. Scaring is both wrong and it doesn\u2019t work. That is why we\u2019re trying to show people a different way of doing it. If Jim came at me with that message, I wouldn\u2019t be sitting here talking to you right now.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right.<\/span><\/p>\n

JH<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I consider it lazy evangelism. I consider it for people that don\u2019t know what else to say. It\u2019s like I\u2019m going to yell at you and call you a name. The interesting part is that Christians are hardly talking to non-Christians anyway and they\u2019re particularly not talking to them about their faith. Just statistically and anecdotally, we know this is not a common thing. They\u2019re really not out telling people they\u2019re going to hell. When I first became a Christian, I was told to go tell people they were going to go to hell. I lost a lot of my old friends and I made new friends who thought I was being brave and told me I was being brave for doing that. That\u2019s the chaos inside Christianity. Then we play that they\u2019re persecuting you and shake the dust off and all that stuff. And it\u2019s just childishness.<\/span><\/p>\n

I understand why people disagree with me. That\u2019s fine. Many people would say, \u201cMatt shouldn\u2019t be on this call with us because I should\u2019ve confronted him.\u201d The fact that I didn\u2019t proves I\u2019m not a Christian. We can disagree about that. But to not admit that what we\u2019re doing isn\u2019t working is, to me, not to really be on a mission. Atheists don\u2019t have a book saying go make disciples all over the world. We have the Book. We have the Book that tells us to love our enemies. They don\u2019t have their book. They\u2019re not held to the same standard as we are. If we don\u2019t like it, we can resign and drop out. But as long as we want to say we\u2019re going to follow Jesus, then we\u2019re going to have to suck it up and say, \u201cThat’s right.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

We have our own motives. Mine is to say to Christians, \u201cYou really don\u2019t have to hide yourself. You can talk out loud about who you are. Just don\u2019t be a jerk about it and more people will talk with you.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 In church on Sunday, they read a verse that I thought of in the context of your book, Matt. It seems like Matt loves the peaceful parts of Christianity. \u00a0But this verse was about how Jesus did not come to bring peace but to create division. What does that mean to an atheist that all these people are following someone who said he came not for peace — which seems to be the only appealing part of Christianity to atheists — but that Jesus said he came to bring division.<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Peace appeals to people in general, so that makes that part of the Christian message appealing to anybody. I\u2019ve not heard that verse before. I didn\u2019t know that Jesus came to bring division. Here\u2019s one thing. He was right about that. The peace hasn\u2019t come but division is certainly here so well done on that one, Jesus. We\u2019re all completely divided. Even in Christianity, it is splintered, shattered. How many sects of Christianity are there? Hundreds? Thousands?<\/span><\/p>\n

JH<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, thousands. Thirty-seven thousand.<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think division is done. That\u2019s one biblical prophecy I think we can all agree on. Unfortunately, I\u2019m not sure what that means beyond that. It is evident that Jesus and Christianity have brought more division than unity.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Some atheists like Christopher Hitchens think that religion poisons everything. Other atheists view Christianity as fine as long as it\u2019s this kind of anodyne picture of Jesus as the person with the little children surrounding him, a good teacher, and a good rabbi. If you can accept that, the verse complicates the picture a little bit. Atheists who want to put Jesus in that box of he really did exist, he was a real person, but he didn\u2019t have kind of the moxie that Christians give him. Christians struggle with that verse as well.<\/span><\/p>\n

JH<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 There are a number of things that Jesus said that I find complicated. Not the least of which is to love your enemies and pray for those who spitefully use you. And ultimately, I have to look at the life of Jesus in its total story and what did he live out ultimately.<\/span><\/p>\n

So based on his life, not to parse Scripture too closely, he was a leader and he brought division. He made decisions, he took stances, and in doing that, any leader is going to bring division. He even said if you don\u2019t love me more than you love your father and mother, you can\u2019t follow me in the context of taking up the cross.<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s the nature of any kind of commitment of any movement and Jesus exhibited that clearly. What makes it unique, of course, is that I happen to believe He\u2019s God and he was saying that. So to me that\u2019s the context of what really matters out of why Jesus would say something like that. Because he did say it, clearly, but he took the story out of Peter\u2019s hand. You can\u2019t argue that Jesus actually literally meant to pick up swords. The metaphor spins both ways. It cuts both ways, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So Matt, now that you\u2019ve written two books together, what do you think the future holds for your relationship with Jim and what you plan to do in the future?<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 At some point in time, I expect Jim will tell me to go to hell.<\/span><\/p>\n

JH<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We\u2019re breaking up right after this phone call, Matt, I forgot to tell you.<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jim and I have been called America\u2019s Spiritual Odd Couple. I thought about that. Why are we an odd couple? We\u2019re never at odds. We\u2019re not arguing. We may be different but we\u2019re not arguing. Sometimes people who may have differences will tune into Sunday morning talk shows and they\u2019ll see people with differences sitting at the same table. They may think to themselves<\/strong><\/em> they\u2019ll probably pick a side, but they may think I could never do that. I hope that what Jim and I can show people is that you can do it. It\u2019s actually pretty easy. I\u2019d like to help people stop throwing down the gauntlet on these issues. When someone throws down the gauntlet, I usually just pick it up and throw it in the trash. I\u2019m not interested in fighting. What we hope to show people is that it really makes your life a lot more interesting when you embrace the differences of various people.<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019ll give an example. I know more than a few atheists. When they learn about this project of mine the question that they always have for me is, \u201cGive me something I can use.\u201d They think that Jim and I must be really, really good at taking each other apart. It\u2019s just the opposite. We\u2019re not interested in taking each other apart. Jim knows where I stand and I know where he stands and we do discuss differences. We realized that our differences are going to be the things that keep us interesting to each other.<\/span><\/p>\n

I hope most discussions aren\u2019t like this but should the hell question come up, it\u2019s not a deal breaker for people. It\u2019s not the end of a friendship. Jim lost friends. I\u2019d like to see that never happen again. I\u2019d like to see that we\u2019re able to model a relationship that shows them how it can be done. It\u2019s no secret that we\u2019re more polarized than we\u2019ve ever been before, whether it\u2019s politics, faith, what have you. It doesn\u2019t have to be that way. You talk about Christopher Hitchens as an atheist \u2013 he\u2019s an antitheist. He wasn\u2019t for anything. He was against things.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m tired of being against things and I\u2019m tired of Christians telling me what they\u2019re against. Here\u2019s what most people know about Christians: they\u2019re against abortion; they\u2019re against gay marriage. Okay, great, we get it. You hate some things. What do you love? What do you care about? Why can\u2019t we talk about those things? I don\u2019t want to sound like a hippie here because I\u2019m not. I don\u2019t even own a hacky sack. But I think that\u2019s what I hope that we can model for people. When you look into stories about Jesus \u2013 and again, I hadn\u2019t heard the divide thing before, he keeps talking to people outside of his comfort zone. He\u2019s going out and talking to different people. He\u2019s bringing people together. He\u2019s bringing people of disparate lives and backgrounds together. And I guess what I\u2019d like to see is to help people have their faith be more unifying than divisive. It doesn\u2019t mean that everyone has to agree with me for it to be a unifying force.<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m on a bit of a quest myself and the reason I always say I\u2019m currently an atheist is beliefs can change. They change all the time for everybody. I still have questions. I want to make sure that when I have questions about Christianity, I\u2019m going to talk with somebody who\u2019s not going to insult me. Hopefully that is what we\u2019re doing here with this book, with this whole weird thing that\u2019s happened to me. Many Christians say that I\u2019m \u201cblessed.\u201d I would say I am \u201clucky\u201d but \u201cblessed\u201d works too. I\u2019m not insulted by them saying I\u2019m blessed. I know some atheists that respond, \u201cWow, I can\u2019t believe someone told me to have a blessed day.\u201d So what? Get over it.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

MC<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They wished you something nice just now. If you weren\u2019t so intent on proving them wrong, then you would\u2019ve seen that for what it was, which was a gracious gesture, a fine how-do-you-do. There\u2019s a polarization that is, again, political, it\u2019s spiritual, it\u2019s just everywhere and I\u2019m just so sick of it. It\u2019s just so destructive.<\/span><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t know if I need faith to make that happen or not? I guess if I have faith, I have faith that eventually people end up doing the right thing. So my faith is that the glass is half full. And wow, I think I\u2019m out of breath because that was a very mellow rant.<\/span><\/p>\n

GT<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You summarized it well. Thank you both for joining me.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

“Jim and I have been called America\u2019s Spiritual Odd Couple. I thought about that. Why are we an odd couple? We\u2019re never at odds. We\u2019re not arguing. We may be different but we\u2019re not arguing. I\u2019d like to help people stop throwing down the gauntlet on these issues. 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When someone throws down the gauntlet, I…\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/2014\/05\/does-jesus-unite-or-divide.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"The Road You're On\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2014-05-19T15:55:55+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2014-05-19T16:06:50+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Gayle Trotter\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Does Jesus unite or divide? - The Road You're On","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/2014\/05\/does-jesus-unite-or-divide.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Does Jesus unite or divide? - The Road You're On","og_description":"“Jim and I have been called America\u2019s Spiritual Odd Couple. I thought about that. Why are we an odd couple? We\u2019re never at odds. We\u2019re not arguing. We may be different but we\u2019re not arguing. I\u2019d like to help people stop throwing down the gauntlet on these issues. When someone throws down the gauntlet, I…","og_url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/2014\/05\/does-jesus-unite-or-divide.html","og_site_name":"The Road You're On","article_published_time":"2014-05-19T15:55:55+00:00","article_modified_time":"2014-05-19T16:06:50+00:00","author":"Gayle Trotter","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/2014\/05\/does-jesus-unite-or-divide.html","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/2014\/05\/does-jesus-unite-or-divide.html","name":"Does Jesus unite or divide? - The Road You're On","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/#website"},"datePublished":"2014-05-19T15:55:55+00:00","dateModified":"2014-05-19T16:06:50+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/#\/schema\/person\/a743a577b3738adf05c99b4d156fcd60"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/2014\/05\/does-jesus-unite-or-divide.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/2014\/05\/does-jesus-unite-or-divide.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/2014\/05\/does-jesus-unite-or-divide.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Does Jesus unite or divide?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/","name":"The Road You're On","description":"Beliefnet Voices","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/#\/schema\/person\/a743a577b3738adf05c99b4d156fcd60","name":"Gayle Trotter","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/author\/gayletrotter"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/147","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/448"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=147"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/147\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":150,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/147\/revisions\/150"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=147"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=147"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/theroadyoureon\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=147"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}