{"id":894,"date":"2009-06-01T09:05:18","date_gmt":"2009-06-01T09:05:18","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/stevenwaldman\/2009\/06\/extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo.html"},"modified":"2009-06-01T09:05:18","modified_gmt":"2009-06-01T09:05:18","slug":"extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/2009\/06\/extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo.html","title":{"rendered":"Did Obama Order George Tiller&#8217;s Murder?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I&#8217;m wary of drawing too many lessons from anonymous message board comments.  One could certainly pluck comments from Beliefnet&#8217;s boards to prove that we harbor either right wing or left wing extremists.<br \/>\nBut it&#8217;s worth perusing the message boards of FreeRepublic, a conservative community, to gauge the general mood of the most hardcore conservatives.<br \/>\nFirst, quite a few people are saying that murder is wrong, no matter how evil the victim was.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><u>SnakeDoc<\/u><br \/>\nThou Shalt Not Murder. Both the shooter and the victim will be judged.<br \/>\n<u>Patriot preacher<\/u><br \/>\nPro-lifers should condemn this as antithetical to their philosophy and beliefs. Hopefully, the perpetrator will be apprehended and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I will shed no tears that Teller is gone &#8212; but MURDER is MURDER.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Then a large group is making a more practical argument that this was bad because it will backfire. In fact, a startling large number believe Tiller was murdered by Obama or pro-choice allies in order to justify a crackdown on guns or civil liberties:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><u>upchuck<\/u><br \/>\nThis serial-killer piece of excrement will be held up by every abortionist and every lover of abortionists as the reason why the Secret Service needs to be assigned to guard every abortionist,every abortion mill and every lover of abortions in this country.<br \/>\n<u>gridlock:<\/u><br \/>\nObama is going to take advantage of this murder to sieze even more control over our society. I would not even put it past them to commit this murder themselves, as an excuse to sieze power. Reichstag Fire, and all that&#8230;<br \/>\n<u>j<a href=\"\/\/www.freerepublic.com\/focus\/f-news\/2261656\/posts?q=1&amp;;page=201\">azminerose <\/a><\/u><br \/>\nWill form the rationalization for really stomping on pro life groups. Was it one of BO&#8217;s storm troopers who pulled the trigger?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Then there&#8217;s a large number of people who flat-out applaud the killing.  I&#8217;m going to print a lot of them because it&#8217;s really unfair to pluck a few extreme quotes off any websites message boards.  What&#8217;s amazing is the sheer volulme of people thinking this way:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\n<u>imahawk:<\/u><br \/>\nOne less nazi as far as I am concerned.<br \/>\n<u>Turret Gunner A20 <\/u><br \/>\nHope the guy gets away&#8230;.Do you think that it would have been murder to assignate Hitler? And don&#8217;t say that the question has no relevance &#8212; this crud was a leading the killer-of-innocents criminal thugs that has already killed throughout the world far more innocents that Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined.  His killer did a great service when noone else would do it.<br \/>\n<u>calico_thompson <\/u><br \/>\nWell, at least the perp didn&#8217;t rip his arms and legs off and then suck his brains out.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><u>Gaffer<\/u><br \/>\nNo doubt this &#8216;man&#8217; is responsible for thousands, maybe tens-of-thousands of needless and wanton deaths. If you think his &#8216;passing&#8217; is a bad thing in the cause of speaking out and ending the practice of abortion, I don&#8217;t know what to tell you. I can only say that I shall not mourn his demise, nor shall I judge others.<br \/>\n<u>TheDuke:<\/u><br \/>\nBut, wasn&#8217;t this just another late term abortion(?)<br \/>\n<u>Slump Tester<\/u><br \/>\nIt&#8217;s too bad the suspect didn&#8217;t poke a roto rooter through his skull and then suck him into a vacuum cleaner instead of just shooting the bastard.<br \/>\n<u>SampleMan: <\/u><br \/>\nWhether he will be judged as a murderer by God may be an open question, and none of us know the answer. In 1942 Reinhard Heydrich was killed in Prague in cold blood. Czech commandos committed what was by the law of the land murder. They were from a country that had surrendered and they were not in uniform. They did this because he was orchestrating the destruction of the Czech people. Did they kill a tyrant or commit murder or both? There is also the case of course of John Brown and slavery. Yes we must obey our laws, until we can no longer live with the result of not obeying them.<br \/>\n<u>babygene<\/u><br \/>\nkilling to prevent a serial killer from claiming his next victim probably doesn&#8217;t fit into the category of murder&#8230;<br \/>\n<u>Cheetahcat<\/u><br \/>\nNothing to see here just his last abortion this one many trimesters Post Birth.<br \/>\n<u>Ahithophel <\/u><br \/>\nHe will till no more in the bloody garden of evisceration.<br \/>\n<u>UnwashedPeasant <\/u><br \/>\nWhat kind of &#8220;church&#8221; was this? The Wright kind?<br \/>\n<u> steve86 <\/u><br \/>\nI guess the allies should not have killed a single Nazi soldier in WWII?<br \/>\n<u>eccentric <\/u><br \/>\nIt is not murder to kill someone to save someone else&#8217;s life.<br \/>\n<u>353FMG <\/u><br \/>\nThe shooter had to kill in order to save the lives of numerous future children. If the shooter is considered a murderer, then so are our brave soldiers. They (the soldiers) have to kill in order to save our lives from the constant threat of terrorism.<br \/>\n<u>mrsmel <\/u><br \/>\nIt&#8217;s too bad, when murderers on the left who really did target innocent people are rewarded and lauded. This man Tiller was responsible for the horrific deaths of thousands of innocent babies, and we are supposed to be shame-faced that someone stopped him in his tracks from jabbing scissors into yet another babies&#8217; head and sucking their life out.<br \/>\nand from <a href=\"http:\/\/www.freerepublic.com\/focus\/f-news\/2262025\/posts\">another thread:<\/a><br \/>\n<u>Canedawg<\/u><br \/>\ni wouldnt feel too badly if some of the communists in our govt met a similar fate. That doesnt mean i am about to go around killing anyone, but if someone else does the deed, i wont be crying over the tainted blood of treasonous actors and infanticiders.<br \/>\n<u>Glenn <\/u><br \/>\nHow about rejoicing for all the children this &#8220;Doctor&#8221; will not murder now?<br \/>\n<u>Flintlock <\/u><br \/>\nI tried to get upset about this.<br \/>\nI failed.<br \/>\nMy bad, I guess.<br \/>\n<u>stockpirate<\/u><br \/>\nGod BLESS the man that killed Tiller.<br \/>\nIt is time the left started to feel the wrath of conservatives.<br \/>\nThere is a time for peace and a time for war.<br \/>\nJesus said I came not to bring peace but a sword.<br \/>\nThose who beat their swords into plows will plow for those who do not.<br \/>\nA people unwilling to use extreme violence to preserve their liberty deserve the tyrants that rule them.<br \/>\nThe two phrases are written over the doors of the Justice Department in DC, &#8220;Repression breeds violence&#8221; and &#8220;Where justice ends, tyranny begins&#8221;<br \/>\nCertainly the unborn are suffering under the boot of tyranny and are being repressed by the ungodly.<br \/>\nRightous men have an obligation to change the wanton murder of the unborn.<br \/>\nA nation that allows the murder of the unborn deserves God&#8217;s harsh judgement.<br \/>\nand <a href=\"http:\/\/www.freerepublic.com\/focus\/f-news\/2261656\/posts?q=1&amp;;page=51\">this thread:<\/a><br \/>\n<u>Lexington Green <\/u><br \/>\nWhat goes around&#8230;<br \/>\n<u>newfreep<\/u><br \/>\nWhatever &#8220;church&#8221; Tiller attends must be worshipping satan.<br \/>\n<u>IDRATHERNOT <\/u><br \/>\nTiller Shot &amp; Killed? Thousands of unborn children claim self defense.<br \/>\n<u>wardaddy<\/u><br \/>\nhe reaped what he&#8217;s sowed same as anyone so evil<br \/>\n<u>Sloth <\/u><br \/>\n*shrug* Genocide has consequences.<br \/>\n<u>The Sons of Liberty <\/u><br \/>\nShooting was too good for him. Too bad his body wasn&#8217;t torn to pieces like his victims.<br \/>\nMay he burn in hell for eternity.<br \/>\n<u>wardaddy<\/u><br \/>\nThis guy wa a monster period.<br \/>\nDid you cry when Dahmer got killed in the joint?<br \/>\nWould you worry about Manson?<br \/>\nnothing personal but ya&#8217;ll are soft as butter.<br \/>\nI make no apologies whatsoever, folks here will be ill prepared for where we&#8217;re headed.<br \/>\n<u>whatisthetruth <\/u><br \/>\nI&#8217;m only surprised this didn&#8217;t happen sooner, couldn&#8217;t have happened to a better man, IMO.<br \/>\n<u>P-Marlowe<\/u><br \/>\nIf you TRULY believe that Abortion is murder, then you cannot condemn anyone who would do anything to stop this mass murderer from continuing in his crimes. This is where the rubber meets the road.  If you call abortion murder, then this was justifiable homicide. If abortion is not murder, then Tiller was the victim of a heinous crime and his killer should be condemned.<br \/>\n<u>mjp <\/u><br \/>\nSometimes retaliatory force is necessary to stop initiation of force by those who are violating natural rights. Preservation of life and natural rights of the innocent is a natural duty that God requires.<br \/>\n<u>tips up<\/u><br \/>\nIf the killer just put scissors into his skull, it would be considered a late term abortion (60+ years late) and he would be a hero of the left, rather than a domestic terrorist.<br \/>\n<u>gscc <\/u><br \/>\nI suppose if Hitler had been assassinated there would have been many &#8220;good&#8221; Germans who would have looked at the assassin as a &#8220;crazy&#8221;. Let&#8217;s face it &#8211; this country has lost it&#8217;s soul. We live in a post-Judeo-Christian nation and it will only go down hill from here. There will certainly be many &#8220;good&#8221; Americans that lament the passing of this evil man. With a federal government, press and apostate &#8220;church&#8221; firmly entrenched in liberal secular theology we are witnessing the end of the founder&#8217;s America.<br \/>\n<u>MichiganConservative<\/u><br \/>\nIt&#8217;s abortion in the 272nd tri-mester (ROTFLMAO)<br \/>\nPost-extraction lead-induced termination. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I&#8217;m wary of drawing too many lessons from anonymous message board comments. One could certainly pluck comments from Beliefnet&#8217;s boards to prove that we harbor either right wing or left wing extremists. But it&#8217;s worth perusing the message boards of FreeRepublic, a conservative community, to gauge the general mood of the most hardcore conservatives. First,&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":49,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-894","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v23.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Did Obama Order George Tiller&#039;s Murder? - Steven Waldman<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/2009\/06\/extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Did Obama Order George Tiller&#039;s Murder? - Steven Waldman\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I&#8217;m wary of drawing too many lessons from anonymous message board comments. One could certainly pluck comments from Beliefnet&#8217;s boards to prove that we harbor either right wing or left wing extremists. But it&#8217;s worth perusing the message boards of FreeRepublic, a conservative community, to gauge the general mood of the most hardcore conservatives. First,&hellip;\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/2009\/06\/extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Steven Waldman\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-06-01T09:05:18+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"swaldman\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Did Obama Order George Tiller's Murder? - Steven Waldman","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/2009\/06\/extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Did Obama Order George Tiller's Murder? - Steven Waldman","og_description":"I&#8217;m wary of drawing too many lessons from anonymous message board comments. One could certainly pluck comments from Beliefnet&#8217;s boards to prove that we harbor either right wing or left wing extremists. But it&#8217;s worth perusing the message boards of FreeRepublic, a conservative community, to gauge the general mood of the most hardcore conservatives. First,&hellip;","og_url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/2009\/06\/extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo.html","og_site_name":"Steven Waldman","article_published_time":"2009-06-01T09:05:18+00:00","author":"swaldman","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/2009\/06\/extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo.html","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/2009\/06\/extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo.html","name":"Did Obama Order George Tiller's Murder? - Steven Waldman","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/#website"},"datePublished":"2009-06-01T09:05:18+00:00","dateModified":"2009-06-01T09:05:18+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/#\/schema\/person\/f14bd19925fcfcd0bd7c74a678fddded"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/2009\/06\/extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/2009\/06\/extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/2009\/06\/extremism-in-an-era-of-anonymo.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Did Obama Order George Tiller&#8217;s Murder?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/","name":"Steven Waldman","description":"Author of 'Founding Faith'","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/#\/schema\/person\/f14bd19925fcfcd0bd7c74a678fddded","name":"swaldman","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/e7f\/e7f50c10d0832a00d2b7690a72d45b5ex96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/e7f\/e7f50c10d0832a00d2b7690a72d45b5ex96.jpg","caption":"swaldman"},"description":"Steven Waldman is the Editor-in-Chief and Co-Founder of Beliefnet. He's also the author of the Founding Faith: Politics, Providence, and the Birth of Religious Freedom in America, which has been published by Random House. Before co-founding Beliefnet in 1999, Waldman was a political journalist, serving as National Editor of U.S. News & World Report and National Correspondent for Newsweek. His writings have appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, National Review, The Atlantic, Slate, and many others.","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/author\/swaldman"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/894","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/49"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=894"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/894\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=894"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=894"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/stevenwaldman\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=894"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}