{"id":681,"date":"2009-02-19T03:01:15","date_gmt":"2009-02-19T03:01:15","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/markdroberts\/2009\/02\/why-are-protestants-more-loyal-to-their-toothpaste-than-to-their-denomination.html"},"modified":"2009-02-19T03:01:15","modified_gmt":"2009-02-19T03:01:15","slug":"why-are-protestants-more-loyal-to-their-toothpaste-than-to-their-denomination","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2009\/02\/why-are-protestants-more-loyal-to-their-toothpaste-than-to-their-denomination.html","title":{"rendered":"Why Are Protestants More Loyal to Their Toothpaste Than to Their Denomination?"},"content":{"rendered":"

Part 2 of series: Denominations, Toothpaste, and Toilet Paper
\n<\/em>Permalink for this post<\/a> \/ Permalink for this series<\/a>
\nIn yesterday\u2019s post I summarized the results of an Ellison Research that found American Protestants to be more loyal to their brand of toothpaste than to their brand of church (i.e. denomination). Although I have neither the technical details nor the expertise to evaluate the accuracy of these findings, they make sense to me intuitively and experientially.
\nFor sixteen years I was the Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church (PCUSA). During that time we received something like a thousand new members. I met most of these in our new members\u2019 class, and heard something of their religious background. I\u2019d guess that, at most, a third of those joining our church had been Presbyterians before. The solid majority came from a wide range of religious traditions, including: Baptist, Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, Methodist, Vineyard, and non-denominational. Some of our new members had been raised as Jews, Muslims, or atheist\/agnostics. Even those who had been Presbyterian did not chose our church primarily because it was the only Presbyterian church in town. Their Presbyterian background got them to visit, but they were joining because they affirmed our vision, connected with our people, and felt drawn to God through our worship and other ministries.
\nSo it doesn\u2019t surprise me that only 16% of Protestants are so loyal to their denomination that, if they moved, they would only consider a new church within their denomination. Nevertheless, it\u2019s worth wondering why this is so. I can think of many reasons, several of which were anticipated by yesterday\u2019s commenters<\/a>.
\nThe language of the Ellison Research study used the language of branding. People are more loyal to their brand of toothpaste than their brand of church, that is, their denomination. This conclusion suggests a fundamental question:<\/p>\n

What is my brand of church?<\/strong><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Many people, including the Ellison Research folk, would say that my brand is Presbyterian. That is true, in a way. But it is also profoundly untrue, in another way. Let me explain.
\nYes, I\u2019ve been a Presbyterian for most of my life, though I was baptized a Methodist and attended Assembly of God, Catholic, and Mennonite churches while in college and grad school. Nevertheless, as an ordained minister of Word and Sacrament in the Presbyterian Church (USA), I\u2019m about as Presbyterian as one can get. I have served in Presbyterian churches for the last 25 years and continue to be active in a Presbyterian church even though I\u2019m no longer on the staff.
\nYet I don\u2019t think of myself primarily as a Presbyterian, but as a Christian. I am first and foremost a disciple of Jesus Christ. My basic brand, as I think of it, is Christian, not Presbyterian. In my current position as Senior Director of Laity Lodge, I am regularly interacting with Methodists, Episcopalians, Baptists, and others. I join them in worship either in their churches or at Laity Lodge. Inevitably, what I experience in these settings is the sense of just how much we have in common as Christians. What we have in common is much more pronounced that where we differ. Sure, the Episcopalians use wine in the Eucharist, while the Presbyterians use grape juice in the Lord\u2019s Supper, but we are united in remembering Christ\u2019s death for us and in our reliance on his grace.
\nWhen I was senior pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church, I made no effort to build brand loyalty to Presbyterianism. I wanted my church members to be loyal first and foremost to Jesus Christ. I rarely talked about the Presbyterian Church and its benefits. Instead, I talked endlessly about Christ and his benefits.
\nMoreover, when people moved away from our area and sought my advice about churches where they lived, I never limited my recommendations to Presbyterian churches. Yes, I did always try to find some strong Presbyterian churches in their region. But it was not my goal as their pastor to make sure they remained Presbyterian. Rather, I wanted them to be in healthy, Christ-centered, Bible-based, gospel-driven churches, no matter the denomination. I\u2019ll admit that I was usually just a bit happier when folks who moved away joined a strong Presbyterian church. But my main concern was for the quality of church, not its denominational label.
\nI remember one time, in particular, when friends from Irvine moved to a suburb of Chicago. Jim and Sherry were died-in-the-wool Presbyterians who had been valuable leaders at Irvine Presbyterian Church. There was, in fact, a Presbyterian church in their new town. But it was relatively lifeless. Moreover, it\u2019s youth ministry was pathetic, and my friends had three teenagers. Jim and Sherry tried other Presbyterian churches nearby, but found more or less the same situation. (Photo: Worship at Irvine Presbyterian Church)
\nAlmost in desperation, they decided to visit Willow Creek Community Church, a \u201cseeker-sensitive\u201d megachurch not to far from their home. The Sunday morning worship service hardly felt like church to them, though they had positive things to say about the quality of the sermon. But their children loved the youth groups. These weren\u2019t just about entertaining program, but rather were committed to helping young people become Christians and grow in their Christian faith. After several visits to Willow Creek, Jim and Sherry felt terribly confused. Should they leave the Presbyterian denomination? How could they abandon their denomination for a non-denominational megachurch. (Photo: Worship at Willow Creek Community Church.)
\nWhen Jim and Sherry called me for advice, I listen to their experiences and concerns. After they were finished, I asked one question: \u201cWhere do you think your children will be helped in their growth as disciples of Jesus?\u201d Their answer was unequivocal: \u201cAt Willow Creek.\u201d My response was equally unequivocal: \u201cThen that\u2019s where you should go.\u201d Did I wish they had found a good Presbyterian church? I expect so. But as long as Jim, Sherry, and their children were going to a Christian church, and an excellent one at that, then I wasn\u2019t concerned that they were switching brands. At the deepest level, and the one that matters most, they were staying with the \u201cChristian brand.\u201d
\nIn my conversation with Jim and Sherry, I also realized that, in some ways, I sensed more \u201cbrand loyalty\u201d to Willow Creek than to certain churches in my own denomination. I\u2019ll say more about this in my next post.
\nAt any rate, I would answer the question: Why are Protestants more loyal to their toothpaste than to their denomination? by saying this: For many Protestants, the brand of “Christian” means far more than any denominational label.<\/em> They are, first and foremost, Christians, and not Presbyterians or Methodists or Baptists.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Part 2 of series: Denominations, Toothpaste, and Toilet Paper Permalink for this post \/ Permalink for this series In yesterday\u2019s post I summarized the results of an Ellison Research that found American Protestants to be more loyal to their brand of toothpaste than to their brand of church (i.e. denomination). Although I have neither the…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":214,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[64],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-681","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-denominations-toothpaste"],"yoast_head":"\nWhy Are Protestants More Loyal to Their Toothpaste Than to Their Denomination? - Mark D. 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Roberts","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","caption":"Mark D. Roberts"},"description":"The Rev. Dr. Mark D. Roberts is a pastor, author, retreat leader, speaker, and blogger. Since October 2007 he has been the Senior Director and Scholar-in-Residence for Laity Lodge, a multifaceted ministry in the Hill Country of Texas. Before coming to Laity Lodge, he was for sixteen years the Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church in Irvine, California (a city in Orange County about forty miles south of Los Angeles). Before his time at Irvine Pres, Mark served on the staff of the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood as Associate Pastor of Education. (Thanks to Janel Pahl for taking the photo to the right.) Mark studied at Harvard University, receiving a B.A. in Philosophy, an M.A. in the Study of Religion, and a Ph.D. in New Testament and Christian Origins. He has taught classes in New Testament for Fuller Theological Seminary and San Francisco Theological Seminary. Mark has written several books, including No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer (WaterBrook, 2005), Dare to Be True (WaterBrook, 2003), Jesus Revealed (WaterBrook, 2002), After \"I Believe\" (Baker, 2002), and Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther (Word, 1993). His most recent book is Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (Crossway, 2007). He is currently working on a commentary on Ephesians that will be published by Zondervan in 2014. Mark writes a devotional for The High Calling of Our Daily Work, a website associated with Laity Lodge. His \"Daily Reflections\" can be viewed online or sent as a daily email. If you wish to receive this email, just visit TheHighCalling.org and sign up. Mark serves on the editorial board of Worship Leader magazine, where he publishes articles and reviews, including his regular column \"Lyrical Poetry.\" Additionally, he has published dozens of articles in leading magazines and journals. He often speaks for churches and other Christian groups, and has been interviewed on over seventy-five radio programs nationwide. Mark is married to Linda, who is a Marriage and Family Therapist, a Spiritual Director, and a retreat speaker. They have two children, Nathan and Kara.For Publicity Photos and Bio Statements for Mark, please check here. Mark's Dossier Professional History: Senior Director and Scholar-in Residence, Laity Lodge, October 2007 to present. Senior Pastor Irvine Presbyterian Church, June 1991 to September 2007 Adjunct Assistant Professor Fuller Theological Seminary, 1994 to 2007. Courses: New Testament Theology and Exegesis. Adjunct Instructor San Francisco Theological Seminary, 1995 to 2001. Courses: New Testament Greek and Exegesis Associate Pastor of Education First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood, 1987-1991 Teaching Fellow Harvard University, 1980-1983 Education: Ph.D. in the Study of Religion. Harvard University, 1992. Area: New Testament and Christian Origins M.A. in the Study of Religion Harvard University, 1984. A.B. magna cum laude in Philosophy Harvard University, 1979. Phi Beta Kappa; Danforth Fellowship Books: Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Crossway, 2007 No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer. WaterBrook, 2005 Dare to Be True: Living in the Freedom of Complete Honesty. WaterBrook, 2003. Jesus Revealed: Know Him Better to Love Him Better. WaterBrook, 2002. After \"I Believe\": Experiencing Authentic Christian Living. Baker, 2002. Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther in the Communicator's Commentary Series. Word, 1993. Contacting Mark: You can reach Mark at: E-mail: mark@markdroberts.com mroberts@laitylodge.org Phone: Laity Lodge: (830) 792-1216 Address: Laity Lodge 719 Earl Garrett Kerrville, TX 78028","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/author\/mroberts"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/681","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/214"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=681"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/681\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=681"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=681"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=681"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}