{"id":641,"date":"2009-01-06T03:01:10","date_gmt":"2009-01-06T03:01:10","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/markdroberts\/2009\/01\/let-it-flow-out-an-interview-with-n-t-wright.html"},"modified":"2009-01-06T03:01:10","modified_gmt":"2009-01-06T03:01:10","slug":"let-it-flow-out-an-interview-with-n-t-wright","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2009\/01\/let-it-flow-out-an-interview-with-n-t-wright.html","title":{"rendered":"Let It Flow Out: An Interview with N. T. Wright"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"N.T.Last November, N.T. Wright spoke at a Laity Lodge retreat. I had the privilege to conduct an extensive interview with him on a wide variety of issues. Excerpts from this interview are now available at The High Calling of Our Daily Work<\/a>, a website affiliated with Laity Lodge.\u00a0 I’ll put up the first part of this interview here. You can click on the link at the bottom to finish reading at The High Calling.org. (Many thanks to my colleague, Marcus Goodyear<\/a>, for his outstanding editing of this interview.)
\nWhat does it look like to be “Simply Christian” outside the professional church from 9 to 5?<\/strong>
\nIt looks like a million different things. Gerard Manley Hopkins wrote, “Christ plays in ten thousand places, lovely in eyes and lovely in limbs, not His.” In a sense, when you become a Christian, you become your genuine self. You\u2019re called into that fresh selfhood. God made each of us to be really quite different and to reflect in a million little glittering diamonds that sense of the differentness of Jesus.\u00a0 Jesus looks like one way in this person and another way in that person.\u00a0 Ordinary people develop skills and talents which are peculiar to them. Then they bring those gifts to the church\u2014gifts of art, gifts of leadership, gifts of craft, gifts of service of all sorts.\u00a0 You will see a rich variety develop.
\nJust as an interesting aside, our local culture in the north of England is a working-class culture. For generations and generations, everyone has lived in these little row houses like in the mining or steel communities. At the end of the village, there is one big house, which is where the owner lives.\u00a0 He tells everybody what to do, and they do it. He pays them, and they go and have a beer. That\u2019s it.\u00a0 They don\u2019t have any decisions to make except which pub to visit at the end of the day.\u00a0 That is still how a lot of people approach the church.\u00a0 We don\u2019t expect to think. We don\u2019t expect to make decisions. That\u2019s what the Vicar is for.\u00a0 We expect the clergy to tell us what to do, and we don\u2019t want to think for ourselves.\u00a0 I want to say, “No, you\u2019ve all got to be individuals and do your own thing.”\u00a0 Actually, I think that\u2019s part of the Gospel.
\nHow do Christians glorify God in their daily work or does our work have some other, more nuanced, purpose?<\/strong>
\nThere are all sorts of different jobs.\u00a0 George Herbert\u2019s famous hymn, “Who sweeps a room, as for thy laws, makes that and the action fine.”\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s a very important principle of Christian service.\u00a0 Now, it\u2019s much easier, no doubt, to think of yourself as doing important Christian work if you\u2019re preparing sermons or being chief in a music band in church or whatever. But actually, the guy who sweeps the step is doing just as much good as you are, maybe more.\u00a0 I am delighted when I go to a church and see people doing mundane things with a sense of pride, because they\u2019re doing them for the love of God and the body of Christ.\u00a0 I love those people.\u00a0 Nobody knows who they are; nobody knows their names.\u00a0 As a bishop, I try to go around and thank them because I can see they\u2019re doing a good job.\u00a0 Of course, we\u2019d all like to be the architect who builds the cathedral or the composer who writes the symphony or whatever. But most of the time, we do what needs to be done. Christ shines out of the way we work, not so much what we do, but how we do it.
\nHow does one\u2019s work fit into the overlap of Heaven and earth?
\n<\/strong>
\nIf it is true that we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, then each Christian is a place where Heaven and earth overlap.\u00a0 C. S. Lewis said, “Next to the blessed sacrament, your Christian neighbor is the holiest object ever presented to your senses.” In Christians, the true Christ should be truly present.\u00a0 From that point of view, what you do as a Christian should embody that overlap of Heaven and earth.\u00a0 But we often think of Heaven in such grandiose terms, often platonic terms, and we just see that Heaven and earth are meant to go together. They were put together in the first place in Genesis 1 in the garden.
\nFor the rest of this interview with Bishop Wright, click here<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Last November, N.T. Wright spoke at a Laity Lodge retreat. I had the privilege to conduct an extensive interview with him on a wide variety of issues. Excerpts from this interview are now available at The High Calling of Our Daily Work, a website affiliated with Laity Lodge.\u00a0 I’ll put up the first part of…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":214,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[29],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-641","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-n-t-wright"],"yoast_head":"\nLet It Flow Out: An Interview with N. T. Wright - Mark D. 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T. Wright"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/","name":"Mark D. Roberts","description":"Mark D. Roberts: Thoughtfully Christian Reflections on Jesus, the Church, and the World","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/1ff094a57b7e41f534434b1723df3d73","name":"Mark D. Roberts","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","caption":"Mark D. Roberts"},"description":"The Rev. Dr. Mark D. Roberts is a pastor, author, retreat leader, speaker, and blogger. Since October 2007 he has been the Senior Director and Scholar-in-Residence for Laity Lodge, a multifaceted ministry in the Hill Country of Texas. Before coming to Laity Lodge, he was for sixteen years the Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church in Irvine, California (a city in Orange County about forty miles south of Los Angeles). Before his time at Irvine Pres, Mark served on the staff of the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood as Associate Pastor of Education. (Thanks to Janel Pahl for taking the photo to the right.) Mark studied at Harvard University, receiving a B.A. in Philosophy, an M.A. in the Study of Religion, and a Ph.D. in New Testament and Christian Origins. He has taught classes in New Testament for Fuller Theological Seminary and San Francisco Theological Seminary. Mark has written several books, including No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer (WaterBrook, 2005), Dare to Be True (WaterBrook, 2003), Jesus Revealed (WaterBrook, 2002), After \"I Believe\" (Baker, 2002), and Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther (Word, 1993). His most recent book is Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (Crossway, 2007). He is currently working on a commentary on Ephesians that will be published by Zondervan in 2014. Mark writes a devotional for The High Calling of Our Daily Work, a website associated with Laity Lodge. His \"Daily Reflections\" can be viewed online or sent as a daily email. If you wish to receive this email, just visit TheHighCalling.org and sign up. Mark serves on the editorial board of Worship Leader magazine, where he publishes articles and reviews, including his regular column \"Lyrical Poetry.\" Additionally, he has published dozens of articles in leading magazines and journals. He often speaks for churches and other Christian groups, and has been interviewed on over seventy-five radio programs nationwide. Mark is married to Linda, who is a Marriage and Family Therapist, a Spiritual Director, and a retreat speaker. They have two children, Nathan and Kara.For Publicity Photos and Bio Statements for Mark, please check here. Mark's Dossier Professional History: Senior Director and Scholar-in Residence, Laity Lodge, October 2007 to present. Senior Pastor Irvine Presbyterian Church, June 1991 to September 2007 Adjunct Assistant Professor Fuller Theological Seminary, 1994 to 2007. Courses: New Testament Theology and Exegesis. Adjunct Instructor San Francisco Theological Seminary, 1995 to 2001. Courses: New Testament Greek and Exegesis Associate Pastor of Education First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood, 1987-1991 Teaching Fellow Harvard University, 1980-1983 Education: Ph.D. in the Study of Religion. Harvard University, 1992. Area: New Testament and Christian Origins M.A. in the Study of Religion Harvard University, 1984. A.B. magna cum laude in Philosophy Harvard University, 1979. Phi Beta Kappa; Danforth Fellowship Books: Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Crossway, 2007 No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer. WaterBrook, 2005 Dare to Be True: Living in the Freedom of Complete Honesty. WaterBrook, 2003. Jesus Revealed: Know Him Better to Love Him Better. WaterBrook, 2002. After \"I Believe\": Experiencing Authentic Christian Living. Baker, 2002. Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther in the Communicator's Commentary Series. Word, 1993. Contacting Mark: You can reach Mark at: E-mail: mark@markdroberts.com mroberts@laitylodge.org Phone: Laity Lodge: (830) 792-1216 Address: Laity Lodge 719 Earl Garrett Kerrville, TX 78028","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/author\/mroberts"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/641","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/214"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=641"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/641\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=641"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=641"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=641"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}