{"id":619,"date":"2008-12-12T00:01:03","date_gmt":"2008-12-12T00:01:03","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/markdroberts\/2008\/12\/bill-maher-jay-leno-and-the-state-of-moral-reasoning-in-america-part-3.html"},"modified":"2008-12-12T00:01:03","modified_gmt":"2008-12-12T00:01:03","slug":"bill-maher-jay-leno-and-the-state-of-moral-reasoning-in-america-part-3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/12\/bill-maher-jay-leno-and-the-state-of-moral-reasoning-in-america-part-3.html","title":{"rendered":"Bill Maher, Jay Leno, and the State of Moral Reasoning in America, Part 3"},"content":{"rendered":"

In my last two posts I\u2019ve been examining some recent statements by Bill Maher on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno<\/em>. His comments about the estate tax, though admittedly laced with humor, reflect a distressing though relatively common shallowness in moral discourse in America. Maher\u2019s best argument for the estate tax is that it doesn\u2019t impact you or me, unless we\u2019re rich. In other words, it\u2019s a shameless appeal to self-interest. As long as something doesn\u2019t hurt me, it\u2019s just fine.
\nJay Leno demonstrated a similar kind of logic when talking about the recent defeat of Proposition 8 in California, which made limited marriage to a man and a woman, thus making same-sex marriage unrecognized by the state. Leno, who obviously opposed Prop 8, had this to say on the issue of same-sex marriage:<\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019ve been married 28 years. I don\u2019t know how two people getting married will suddenly ruin my marriage. I was told this will ruin my marriage. How? What does it matter to me?\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I\u2019ve heard this sort of argument all the time from married heterosexuals who support same-sex marriage: It won\u2019t hurt my marriage, so it\u2019s just fine. Here, once again, is a moral argument that says \u201cAs long as something doesn\u2019t hurt me, it\u2019s just fine.\u201d
\nIronically, many of those who made this argument with respect to Proposition 8 in California were supporters of Proposition 2, the so-called the Prevention of Farm Animal Cruelty Act. Prop 2 would have made illegal farm raising animals in a way that confined them. Though some arguments in favor of this proposition claimed health benefits for humans, my informal survey of Prop 2 supports found that the vast majority were concerned about the well-being of the animals. They voted for this proposition even though would in all likelihood lead to higher prices and layoffs in the egg-producing business of California. So, it appears that millions of Californians were persuaded to vote against Prop 8 because of the \u201cit doesn\u2019t hurt me\u201d argument, but voted for Prop 2, even though the caging of animals doesn\u2019t hurt them, and the passage of Prop 2 might even hurt them in their pocketbooks. (I suppose Prop 2 supporters might answer, \u201cYes, the caging of animals does hurt me. It makes me feel sad for the animals.\u201d)
\nPutting aside the question of whether one should have voted for or against Prop 2 and Prop 8, I want simply to note the simple selfishness of Jay Leno\u2019s argument. Would Leno vote for a proposition that made slavery legal on the grounds that \u201cit doesn\u2019t hurt me\u201d? I doubt it. He\u2019s more compassionate and reasonable than this. In fact, I expect that Jay Leno has certain beliefs about homosexuality, marriage, government, and the social good that informed his position on Prop 8 . . . at least I hope so.
\nNow I\u2019m sure there were some supporters of Prop 8 who believed that allowing same-sex marriage would in some way hurt their marriages. But, on the basis of my informal observation of California voters, supporters of Prop 8 were concerned about the impact of same-sex marriage on the wider culture, and especially on children. They believed, right or wrong, that making same-sex marriage legal threatened society and would harm children. They might be wrong about these things, of course. But my point is that their moral arguments in favor of Prop 8 didn\u2019t have to do with themselves, but with others, and especially with the larger social good.
\nYou can see egocentric moral reasoning throughout our society today. Presidential candidates of both parties use it and pander to it by promising tax cuts to people, who, presumably are going to vote their own self-interest. Period. How sad!
\nWhat we need in our country today is a new model of moral reasoning, one that appeals to foundational principles and that advances a compelling vision for our nation and, indeed, the whole world. So, one might oppose estate taxes on the grounds that it is legalized stealing, and stealing is wrong. Or one could support estate taxes on the ground that shifting money from the wealthy to the poor is a good thing. I could see Bono, for example, arguing that estate taxes should be used to help feed the hungry. No matter who is right in this argument, at least it appeals to something more than raw self-interest.
\nThe moral of the story? Don\u2019t base your moral judgments on the things you hear on late night television. The other moral? Learn to consider your choices in light of something more than self-interest. Seek transcendent principles. Think in terms of a broad vision for society. And, whatever you do, think about others, and not just yourself.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In my last two posts I\u2019ve been examining some recent statements by Bill Maher on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. His comments about the estate tax, though admittedly laced with humor, reflect a distressing though relatively common shallowness in moral discourse in America. Maher\u2019s best argument for the estate tax is that it doesn\u2019t…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":214,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[59],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-619","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-moral-reasoning"],"yoast_head":"\nBill Maher, Jay Leno, and the State of Moral Reasoning in America, Part 3 - Mark D. Roberts<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/12\/bill-maher-jay-leno-and-the-state-of-moral-reasoning-in-america-part-3.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Bill Maher, Jay Leno, and the State of Moral Reasoning in America, Part 3 - Mark D. Roberts\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"In my last two posts I\u2019ve been examining some recent statements by Bill Maher on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. His comments about the estate tax, though admittedly laced with humor, reflect a distressing though relatively common shallowness in moral discourse in America. 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Roberts","description":"Mark D. Roberts: Thoughtfully Christian Reflections on Jesus, the Church, and the World","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/1ff094a57b7e41f534434b1723df3d73","name":"Mark D. Roberts","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","caption":"Mark D. Roberts"},"description":"The Rev. Dr. Mark D. Roberts is a pastor, author, retreat leader, speaker, and blogger. Since October 2007 he has been the Senior Director and Scholar-in-Residence for Laity Lodge, a multifaceted ministry in the Hill Country of Texas. Before coming to Laity Lodge, he was for sixteen years the Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church in Irvine, California (a city in Orange County about forty miles south of Los Angeles). Before his time at Irvine Pres, Mark served on the staff of the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood as Associate Pastor of Education. (Thanks to Janel Pahl for taking the photo to the right.) Mark studied at Harvard University, receiving a B.A. in Philosophy, an M.A. in the Study of Religion, and a Ph.D. in New Testament and Christian Origins. He has taught classes in New Testament for Fuller Theological Seminary and San Francisco Theological Seminary. Mark has written several books, including No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer (WaterBrook, 2005), Dare to Be True (WaterBrook, 2003), Jesus Revealed (WaterBrook, 2002), After \"I Believe\" (Baker, 2002), and Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther (Word, 1993). His most recent book is Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (Crossway, 2007). He is currently working on a commentary on Ephesians that will be published by Zondervan in 2014. Mark writes a devotional for The High Calling of Our Daily Work, a website associated with Laity Lodge. His \"Daily Reflections\" can be viewed online or sent as a daily email. If you wish to receive this email, just visit TheHighCalling.org and sign up. Mark serves on the editorial board of Worship Leader magazine, where he publishes articles and reviews, including his regular column \"Lyrical Poetry.\" Additionally, he has published dozens of articles in leading magazines and journals. He often speaks for churches and other Christian groups, and has been interviewed on over seventy-five radio programs nationwide. Mark is married to Linda, who is a Marriage and Family Therapist, a Spiritual Director, and a retreat speaker. They have two children, Nathan and Kara.For Publicity Photos and Bio Statements for Mark, please check here. Mark's Dossier Professional History: Senior Director and Scholar-in Residence, Laity Lodge, October 2007 to present. Senior Pastor Irvine Presbyterian Church, June 1991 to September 2007 Adjunct Assistant Professor Fuller Theological Seminary, 1994 to 2007. Courses: New Testament Theology and Exegesis. Adjunct Instructor San Francisco Theological Seminary, 1995 to 2001. Courses: New Testament Greek and Exegesis Associate Pastor of Education First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood, 1987-1991 Teaching Fellow Harvard University, 1980-1983 Education: Ph.D. in the Study of Religion. Harvard University, 1992. Area: New Testament and Christian Origins M.A. in the Study of Religion Harvard University, 1984. A.B. magna cum laude in Philosophy Harvard University, 1979. Phi Beta Kappa; Danforth Fellowship Books: Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Crossway, 2007 No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer. WaterBrook, 2005 Dare to Be True: Living in the Freedom of Complete Honesty. WaterBrook, 2003. Jesus Revealed: Know Him Better to Love Him Better. WaterBrook, 2002. After \"I Believe\": Experiencing Authentic Christian Living. Baker, 2002. Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther in the Communicator's Commentary Series. Word, 1993. Contacting Mark: You can reach Mark at: E-mail: mark@markdroberts.com mroberts@laitylodge.org Phone: Laity Lodge: (830) 792-1216 Address: Laity Lodge 719 Earl Garrett Kerrville, TX 78028","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/author\/mroberts"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/619","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/214"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=619"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/619\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=619"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=619"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=619"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}