{"id":545,"date":"2008-09-25T01:01:08","date_gmt":"2008-09-25T01:01:08","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8.html"},"modified":"2008-09-25T01:01:08","modified_gmt":"2008-09-25T01:01:08","slug":"the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8.html","title":{"rendered":"The PC(USA) and Church Property, Part 8"},"content":{"rendered":"

Part 8 of series: The PC(USA) and Church Property
\n<\/em>Permalink for this post<\/a> \/ Permalink for this series<\/a>
\nIn my last few posts I\u2019ve been suggesting a process for a congregation that thinks God might be leading it to leave the PC(USA). So far the steps are<\/p>\n

1. Put on the whole armor of God. <\/em>
\n2. Congregation leaders should communicate with leaders from other churches that have considered leaving the PC(USA), or have left, to learn about what was good and not good in their process.<\/em>
\n3. Congregation leaders should communicate with the presbytery.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The next step would be:
\n4. The congregation should engage in a discernment process that is prayerful, biblical, humble, open, truthful, loving, respectful, fair, and timely. <\/em>
\nI must admit that I do not have direct experience with churches leaving their denomination. I can\u2019t offer the sort of wisdom one would receive from someone who has been down this road before. (Hence Step #2 above.) But I do have a few thoughts about what an appropriate discernment process would include.
\nFirst, it should be prayerful<\/em>. Literally . . . full of prayer. The main point of a process to consider leaving a denomination is to discern God\u2019s will. Thus a congregation should turn to the Lord and ask for his guidance. Those would believe they know that God\u2019s answer will be in advance would do well to publicly surrender their agendas and desires to God\u2019s gracious sovereignty.
\nSecond, the discernment process should be biblical<\/em>. I\u2019m using the word \u201cbiblical\u201d in two senses. On the one hand, the process should be guided by biblical principles for human relationships and for determining God\u2019s will. On the other hand, the process should include ample study of biblical passages relevant to the issue(s) at hand. If, for example, a church is thinking about leaving the PC(USA) because of it\u2019s view of homosexual behavior, the passages that address human sexuality should be studied by the congregation.
\nThird, the process should be humble<\/em>. More accurately, all involved in the process should be humble before God and before each other. Such humility would include an admission by all that \u201cI could be wrong in this.\u201d Moreover, it would reflect the humility of Christ applied to human relationships. I\u2019m thinking of Paul\u2019s teaching in Philippians 2, for example:<\/p>\n

If then there is any encouragement in Christ, any consolation from love, any sharing in the Spirit, any compassion and sympathy, make my joy complete: be of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves. Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others. Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus,
\nwho, though he was in the form of God,
\ndid not regard equality with God
\nas something to be exploited,
\nbut emptied himself,
\ntaking the form of a slave,
\nbeing born in human likeness.
\nAnd being found in human form,
\nhe humbled himself
\nand became obedient to the point of death\u2014
\neven death on a cross. (Phil 2:1-8)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Fourth, the discernment process should be open<\/em>. I\u2019m thinking a various dimensions of openness. Key deliberations should not be held in closed meetings. No smoke-filled rooms here (or coffee and donut filled rooms, as the case may be). There should also be encouragement for congregation members to share openly their thoughts and feelings. Any effort to railroad a specific conclusion should be avoided, both by congregation leaders and by presbytery leaders. (See my confession below.)
\nFifth, the process should be truthful<\/em>. Biblical truth should be foundational. Truthful representation of various specific issues is crucial. For example, the tendency of both sides of the gay ordination debate to misrepresent the other side should be avoided.
\nSixth, the discernment process should be loving<\/em>. Yes, of course this is obvious, but it needs to be said . . . and done. We\u2019re called to speak the truth in love (Eph 4:15). Now this doesn\u2019t mean we shouldn\u2019t disagree, or that we must pretend that we can all get along theologically. But our communications should imitate the love of Jesus as represented in 1 Corinthians 13:4-7:<\/p>\n

Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

In almost every congregation considering leaving the PC(USA), there will be members on both sides of the issue. This means the potential for mutual injury is huge. In fact, I think it\u2019s unavoidable. No matter what conclusion a church reaches, some folks will disagree with that conclusion. Some will leave the church if it stays. Some will stay with the PC(USA) if it leaves. This will be painful. But if the process is governed by love, that pain doesn\u2019t have too include bitterness and unforgiveness.
\nSeventh, the process should be respectful<\/em>. Respect is due from each person for each person, especially among those who disagree with each other. People should be free to disagree about ideas, but not to impugn each other\u2019s integrity. Respect should also be given to denominational officials. (Photo: Not an example of a respectful process.)
\nEighth, the process should be fair<\/em>. Now what does that mean? Among other things, it means that every person will have the chance to voice his or her opinion and to be heard. It means that if there is a strong majority in the congregation, the minority will be treated well and heard sensitively. It means that votes will be taken by secret ballot so people don\u2019t feel awkward about disagreeing with others.
\nFinally, the process should be timely<\/em>. It should be neither too long nor too short. I\u2019m not able to put a specific number of months on the ideal range, though I can imagine something like three to nine months. If a process is rushed, then people will not have the chance to pray adequate, think carefully, speak openly, and listen attentively. If a process is dragged out, the church will be hurt by the delay. Let\u2019s face it. If a congregation is considering leaving the denomination, this will take a great deal of that congregation\u2019s time and energy. It will, for a season, distract a church from its mission. I can envision church leaders wanting to accelerate the process to a sprint and presbytery leaders wanting to slow it down to a crawl. Neither pace will be edifying to the congregation, or even to the presbytery. Church leaders, both in the congregation and in the presbytery, should be sure that the timetable for the process is neither too short nor too long. (If you\u2019ve been involved in such a process in the past, I\u2019d be interested in your input here. Please leave a comment below.)
\nA Confession: If I ever get to the point where I think I need to leave the PC(USA), I expect I will be extremely impatient with those who aren\u2019t moving at my pace. I can just envision a congregational meeting in which well-intended but inexperienced people say things like: \u201cWell, have we ever tried to change the Book of Order<\/em> to make it more biblical?\u201d or \u201cHave you ever sat down with the people who disagree with you and tried to understand their perspective?\u201d I will want to scream in frustration. After all, I\u2019ve spent more than thirty years of my life dealing with the gay ordination issue in the PC(USA). I\u2019ve been involved in many efforts to try and change the Book of Order<\/em> for the better (as it is, today, but perhaps not for long). I\u2019ve listened to \u201cthe other side\u201d for hours and hours. If I ever decide it\u2019s time to leave the PC(USA), this decision will have come after more than thirty years of effort and hundreds if not thousands of hours of thinking, listening, studying, praying, and writing. The problem is that many, many other people will not have invested such time. They\u2019ll need time to understand the issues and the options. I will need to work very hard to demonstrate the first quality of biblical love: \u201cLove is patient . . . .\u201d
\nAs I\u2019ve been surfing around the Internet, I found a document prepared by the Presbytery of the Cascades called \u201cA Process for Congregations Considering Leaving the PCUSA\u201d (download PDF file here<\/a>). There\u2019s a lot of wisdom in this paper, both with respect to process and concerning specific issues that congregations might forget (like legal matters, insurance, etc.). I\u2019m not saying that this document is perfect, but it has a lot to offer. (If you know of similar process documents produced by other governing bodies or churches, from both PC(USA) or non-PC(USA) sources, please let us know by leaving a comment below.) In my next post I\u2019ll suggest what I think should be a presbytery\u2019s response to a church that, having gone through an appropriate process, votes to leave the PC(USA).<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Part 8 of series: The PC(USA) and Church Property Permalink for this post \/ Permalink for this series In my last few posts I\u2019ve been suggesting a process for a congregation that thinks God might be leading it to leave the PC(USA). So far the steps are 1. Put on the whole armor of God.…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":214,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[54],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-545","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-pcusa-church-property"],"yoast_head":"\nThe PC(USA) and Church Property, Part 8 - Mark D. Roberts<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The PC(USA) and Church Property, Part 8 - Mark D. Roberts\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Part 8 of series: The PC(USA) and Church Property Permalink for this post \/ Permalink for this series In my last few posts I\u2019ve been suggesting a process for a congregation that thinks God might be leading it to leave the PC(USA). So far the steps are 1. Put on the whole armor of God.…\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Mark D. Roberts\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2008-09-25T01:01:08+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Mark D. Roberts\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"The PC(USA) and Church Property, Part 8 - Mark D. Roberts","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"The PC(USA) and Church Property, Part 8 - Mark D. Roberts","og_description":"Part 8 of series: The PC(USA) and Church Property Permalink for this post \/ Permalink for this series In my last few posts I\u2019ve been suggesting a process for a congregation that thinks God might be leading it to leave the PC(USA). So far the steps are 1. Put on the whole armor of God.…","og_url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8.html","og_site_name":"Mark D. Roberts","article_published_time":"2008-09-25T01:01:08+00:00","author":"Mark D. Roberts","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8.html","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8.html","name":"The PC(USA) and Church Property, Part 8 - Mark D. Roberts","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#website"},"datePublished":"2008-09-25T01:01:08+00:00","dateModified":"2008-09-25T01:01:08+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/1ff094a57b7e41f534434b1723df3d73"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/the-pcusa-and-church-property-part-8.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"The PC(USA) and Church Property, Part 8"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/","name":"Mark D. Roberts","description":"Mark D. Roberts: Thoughtfully Christian Reflections on Jesus, the Church, and the World","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/1ff094a57b7e41f534434b1723df3d73","name":"Mark D. Roberts","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","caption":"Mark D. Roberts"},"description":"The Rev. Dr. Mark D. Roberts is a pastor, author, retreat leader, speaker, and blogger. Since October 2007 he has been the Senior Director and Scholar-in-Residence for Laity Lodge, a multifaceted ministry in the Hill Country of Texas. Before coming to Laity Lodge, he was for sixteen years the Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church in Irvine, California (a city in Orange County about forty miles south of Los Angeles). Before his time at Irvine Pres, Mark served on the staff of the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood as Associate Pastor of Education. (Thanks to Janel Pahl for taking the photo to the right.) Mark studied at Harvard University, receiving a B.A. in Philosophy, an M.A. in the Study of Religion, and a Ph.D. in New Testament and Christian Origins. He has taught classes in New Testament for Fuller Theological Seminary and San Francisco Theological Seminary. Mark has written several books, including No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer (WaterBrook, 2005), Dare to Be True (WaterBrook, 2003), Jesus Revealed (WaterBrook, 2002), After \"I Believe\" (Baker, 2002), and Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther (Word, 1993). His most recent book is Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (Crossway, 2007). He is currently working on a commentary on Ephesians that will be published by Zondervan in 2014. Mark writes a devotional for The High Calling of Our Daily Work, a website associated with Laity Lodge. His \"Daily Reflections\" can be viewed online or sent as a daily email. If you wish to receive this email, just visit TheHighCalling.org and sign up. Mark serves on the editorial board of Worship Leader magazine, where he publishes articles and reviews, including his regular column \"Lyrical Poetry.\" Additionally, he has published dozens of articles in leading magazines and journals. He often speaks for churches and other Christian groups, and has been interviewed on over seventy-five radio programs nationwide. Mark is married to Linda, who is a Marriage and Family Therapist, a Spiritual Director, and a retreat speaker. They have two children, Nathan and Kara.For Publicity Photos and Bio Statements for Mark, please check here. Mark's Dossier Professional History: Senior Director and Scholar-in Residence, Laity Lodge, October 2007 to present. Senior Pastor Irvine Presbyterian Church, June 1991 to September 2007 Adjunct Assistant Professor Fuller Theological Seminary, 1994 to 2007. Courses: New Testament Theology and Exegesis. Adjunct Instructor San Francisco Theological Seminary, 1995 to 2001. Courses: New Testament Greek and Exegesis Associate Pastor of Education First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood, 1987-1991 Teaching Fellow Harvard University, 1980-1983 Education: Ph.D. in the Study of Religion. Harvard University, 1992. Area: New Testament and Christian Origins M.A. in the Study of Religion Harvard University, 1984. A.B. magna cum laude in Philosophy Harvard University, 1979. Phi Beta Kappa; Danforth Fellowship Books: Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Crossway, 2007 No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer. WaterBrook, 2005 Dare to Be True: Living in the Freedom of Complete Honesty. WaterBrook, 2003. Jesus Revealed: Know Him Better to Love Him Better. WaterBrook, 2002. After \"I Believe\": Experiencing Authentic Christian Living. Baker, 2002. Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther in the Communicator's Commentary Series. Word, 1993. Contacting Mark: You can reach Mark at: E-mail: mark@markdroberts.com mroberts@laitylodge.org Phone: Laity Lodge: (830) 792-1216 Address: Laity Lodge 719 Earl Garrett Kerrville, TX 78028","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/author\/mroberts"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/545","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/214"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=545"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/545\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=545"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=545"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=545"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}