{"id":530,"date":"2008-09-08T01:01:23","date_gmt":"2008-09-08T01:01:23","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/why-not-just-leave-the-pcusa-part-3.html"},"modified":"2008-09-08T01:01:23","modified_gmt":"2008-09-08T01:01:23","slug":"why-not-just-leave-the-pcusa-part-3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/why-not-just-leave-the-pcusa-part-3.html","title":{"rendered":"Why Not Just Leave the PC(USA)? Part 3"},"content":{"rendered":"

Part 3 of series: Why Not Just Leave the PC(USA)?
\n<\/em>Permalink for this post<\/a> \/ Permalink for this series<\/a>
\nSo far I\u2019ve offered three answers to the question: Why don\u2019t you just leave the PC(USA)? They are:<\/p>\n

1. I\u2019m not leaving the PC(USA) because my church is part of the PC(USA).
\n2. I\u2019m not leaving the PC(USA) because I have dear friends and partners in ministry in this denomination.
\n3. I\u2019m not leaving the PC(USA) because, as of this moment, I have not been required by the denomination to do something that is contrary to my conscience.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Here\u2019s another reason:
\n4. I\u2019m not leaving the PC(USA) because there is no perfect denomination or church.<\/strong>
\nThe PC(USA) has problems, plenty of them. But it\u2019s not as if other denominations and churches are hassle-free. The Southern Baptists aren\u2019t exactly having a happy church picnic. Neither are the Episcopalians. Nor the Methodists. In fact, every denomination of which I am aware has its share of problems. So if I were to switch from the PC(USA) to a denomination what was theologically and missionally more in line with my own convictions, before long I\u2019d realize that the grass really wasn\u2019t too much greener on the other side of the fence after all.
\nI have learned this lesson indirectly from several friends who have left the PC(USA). For example, about ten years ago, a friend I\u2019ll call Greg decided that he\u2019d had enough of the PC(USA)\u2019s theological \u201call-over-the-mapness.\u201d He wanted to be in a denomination that was theologically conservative and clear. So, though he as a PC(USA) pastor and had graduated from Princeton Seminary, a PC(USA) flagship, he determined to leave the denomination. Before long he was called to be the pastor of a PCA church. The Presbyterian Church in America<\/a> is a conservative denomination, which, in 1973, broke off from the denomination that became the PC(USA) over issues of biblical authority, theological clarity, and the ordination of women. In the last few years, the PCA has been growing steadily, unlike the shrinking PC(USA), though it continues to be considerably smaller than the PC(USA). There are many outstanding PCA churches, notably Redeemer Presbyterian Church<\/a> in New York City, where Tim Keller is the senior pastor.
\nAnyway, back to my story about Greg. He and I remained friends after he left the PC(USA), though we didn\u2019t have much contact for a while. A couple of years after he had joined the PCA, Greg and I had lunch. I asked him how it was going in his new denomination, expecting to hear how much happier he was now than before. \u201cI\u2019ve got to be honest,\u201d he said, \u201cthough I\u2019m in much greater in agreement with the PCA theology, I\u2019m getting tired of debates about whether the days in Genesis 1 are literal or not. Sometimes I wish I were back in the PC(USA), where I could be a conservative standing up for biblical truth, rather than someone whose conservative credentials are suspect. Plus, we have plenty of churches with lots of problems. I\u2019m glad I\u2019m pastoring the church I\u2019m in, but sometimes I regret leaving the PC(USA), in spite of all of its issues.\u201d
\nThere isn\u2019t a prefect denomination. Were I to switch to something else, I\u2019d leave behind one set of problems but take on another set.
\nI expect that, at this point, some of my readers might want to shout: \u201cThen why not join an independent, non-denominational church? You wouldn\u2019t have denominational hassles to worry about.\u201d Indeed. Sometimes non-denominationalism seems to offer much greener grass. I know of some fantastic non-denominational churches, like RockHarbor Church<\/a> in Costa Mesa, California, near where I used to live. This is a dynamic, growing, theologically-solid church. I know several of the pastors there, and hold them in high regard. (Photo: Todd Proctor is the Lead Pastor [i.e. Senior Pastor] of RockHarbor. Curiously enough, he\u2019s not the primary teacher\/preacher. Todd is an accomplished worship leader and composer who has strong leadership gifts.)
\nBut even RockHarbor has its problems. Moreover, I\u2019ve watched lots of independent churches struggle mightily in ways denominational churches often avoid. Because they\u2019re free to make it up as they go along, rather than follow denominational wisdom and be held accountable by denominational bodies, non-denominational churches sometimes get into huge messes. For example, I know of one megachurch in which the board of elders was unhappy with its Senior Pastor. So the board got together and fired the pastor, hiring a brand new pastor in the same meeting. When people arrived at the worship service on the next Sunday morning, they were informed that they had a brand new Senior Pastor. You can imagine the reaction from the people, most of whom had no idea there were problems with the former pastor. The lack of any sort of pastoral transition contributed to the ultimate demise of this once thriving church.
\nI\u2019ve also had friends who have been summarily fired without due process by their independent churches. In one case, a pastor who thought he was doing a good job was terminated, given only two weeks notice and compensation. The fact that he was supporting a family of four children didn\u2019t seem to matter to the board. This man had no recourse other than to sue his church, which he refused to do on biblical grounds. So he and his family entered an extended season of grief, anger, and financial hardship.
\nNow I expect some of my readers are wondering why we should bother with the church at all. I can understand such wondering. Sometimes I\u2019ve thought the same myself. But I believe that the church is, in addition to being a human institution with plenty of problems, the body of Christ and the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. Yes, the church in general and churches in particular have lots of problems. That\u2019s the way it is this side of the new creation. But churches also do lots and lots and lots of good, often representing Christ quite faithfully. Moreover, there are strong theological reasons to be committed to the church, and even to hang with a denomination in crisis. I\u2019ll touch upon some of these reasons in my next post.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Part 3 of series: Why Not Just Leave the PC(USA)? Permalink for this post \/ Permalink for this series So far I\u2019ve offered three answers to the question: Why don\u2019t you just leave the PC(USA)? They are: 1. I\u2019m not leaving the PC(USA) because my church is part of the PC(USA). 2. I\u2019m not leaving…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":214,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[53],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-530","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-pcusa-why-not-leave"],"yoast_head":"\nWhy Not Just Leave the PC(USA)? Part 3 - Mark D. Roberts<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/09\/why-not-just-leave-the-pcusa-part-3.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Why Not Just Leave the PC(USA)? Part 3 - Mark D. Roberts\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Part 3 of series: Why Not Just Leave the PC(USA)? Permalink for this post \/ Permalink for this series So far I\u2019ve offered three answers to the question: Why don\u2019t you just leave the PC(USA)? They are: 1. I\u2019m not leaving the PC(USA) because my church is part of the PC(USA). 2. 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Roberts","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","caption":"Mark D. Roberts"},"description":"The Rev. Dr. Mark D. Roberts is a pastor, author, retreat leader, speaker, and blogger. Since October 2007 he has been the Senior Director and Scholar-in-Residence for Laity Lodge, a multifaceted ministry in the Hill Country of Texas. Before coming to Laity Lodge, he was for sixteen years the Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church in Irvine, California (a city in Orange County about forty miles south of Los Angeles). Before his time at Irvine Pres, Mark served on the staff of the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood as Associate Pastor of Education. (Thanks to Janel Pahl for taking the photo to the right.) Mark studied at Harvard University, receiving a B.A. in Philosophy, an M.A. in the Study of Religion, and a Ph.D. in New Testament and Christian Origins. He has taught classes in New Testament for Fuller Theological Seminary and San Francisco Theological Seminary. Mark has written several books, including No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer (WaterBrook, 2005), Dare to Be True (WaterBrook, 2003), Jesus Revealed (WaterBrook, 2002), After \"I Believe\" (Baker, 2002), and Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther (Word, 1993). His most recent book is Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (Crossway, 2007). He is currently working on a commentary on Ephesians that will be published by Zondervan in 2014. Mark writes a devotional for The High Calling of Our Daily Work, a website associated with Laity Lodge. His \"Daily Reflections\" can be viewed online or sent as a daily email. If you wish to receive this email, just visit TheHighCalling.org and sign up. Mark serves on the editorial board of Worship Leader magazine, where he publishes articles and reviews, including his regular column \"Lyrical Poetry.\" Additionally, he has published dozens of articles in leading magazines and journals. He often speaks for churches and other Christian groups, and has been interviewed on over seventy-five radio programs nationwide. Mark is married to Linda, who is a Marriage and Family Therapist, a Spiritual Director, and a retreat speaker. They have two children, Nathan and Kara.For Publicity Photos and Bio Statements for Mark, please check here. Mark's Dossier Professional History: Senior Director and Scholar-in Residence, Laity Lodge, October 2007 to present. Senior Pastor Irvine Presbyterian Church, June 1991 to September 2007 Adjunct Assistant Professor Fuller Theological Seminary, 1994 to 2007. Courses: New Testament Theology and Exegesis. Adjunct Instructor San Francisco Theological Seminary, 1995 to 2001. Courses: New Testament Greek and Exegesis Associate Pastor of Education First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood, 1987-1991 Teaching Fellow Harvard University, 1980-1983 Education: Ph.D. in the Study of Religion. Harvard University, 1992. Area: New Testament and Christian Origins M.A. in the Study of Religion Harvard University, 1984. A.B. magna cum laude in Philosophy Harvard University, 1979. Phi Beta Kappa; Danforth Fellowship Books: Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Crossway, 2007 No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer. WaterBrook, 2005 Dare to Be True: Living in the Freedom of Complete Honesty. WaterBrook, 2003. Jesus Revealed: Know Him Better to Love Him Better. WaterBrook, 2002. After \"I Believe\": Experiencing Authentic Christian Living. Baker, 2002. Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther in the Communicator's Commentary Series. Word, 1993. Contacting Mark: You can reach Mark at: E-mail: mark@markdroberts.com mroberts@laitylodge.org Phone: Laity Lodge: (830) 792-1216 Address: Laity Lodge 719 Earl Garrett Kerrville, TX 78028","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/author\/mroberts"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/530","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/214"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=530"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/530\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=530"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=530"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=530"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}