{"id":454,"date":"2008-05-28T01:01:25","date_gmt":"2008-05-28T01:01:25","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/markdroberts\/2008\/05\/recommendation-4-meet-with-the-pastor.html"},"modified":"2008-05-28T01:01:25","modified_gmt":"2008-05-28T01:01:25","slug":"recommendation-4-meet-with-the-pastor","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2008\/05\/recommendation-4-meet-with-the-pastor.html","title":{"rendered":"Recommendation #4: Meet with the Pastor"},"content":{"rendered":"

Part 7 of series: Choosing a Church: Some Recommendations
\n<\/em>Permalink for this post<\/a> \/ Permalink for this series<\/a>
\nSo far I’ve put up three recommendations for those who are looking for a new church home:<\/p>\n

#1: Clarify what you value most in a church, though with an open mind and heart.
\n#2: Look for a church that is essentially orthodox, unless . . . .
\n#3: Use the Internet.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Today I discuss Recommendation #4: Meet with the Pastor<\/em>.
\nDozens of times during my tenure as senior pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church, I had appointments with potential church members. Usually they had visited several times and liked what they experienced of our church. But before they took part in one of our new member’s classes, they wanted to talk with the pastor.
\nSometimes these visits were relaxed and informal, just “get-to-know-you” sessions. People would tell me a bit of their story, sometimes relating their spiritual testimony. If they didn’t bring up how they became Christians, I’d ask. They’d ask me questions about my background, my family, and so forth. These were pleasant, low-blood-pressure kinds of conversations.
\nSometimes, however, people came with literal lists of theological questions. Before joining our church, they wanted to know what I and other church leaders believed about a wide variety of subjects, including: salvation, the nature of Christ, the authority of the Bible, women in ministry, spiritual gifts, speaking in tongues, homosexuality, abortion, politics, and predestination, just to name a few issues. I would do my best, not to “sell” the church to the potential “buyers,” but to describe our core beliefs as accurately as possible.
\nOn quite a few occasions I’d tell people things about our church that they didn’t like, knowing that this would in all likelihood mean that they weren’t going to join. Some folks were unhappy that our church was inadequately political, either on the right or the left. Some were miffed that we regarded all homosexual activity as sinful. Others were disappointed that we ordained women as pastors and elders. I remember one man who was almost incredulous: “You really ordain women as leaders? But you’re such a great church! And your preaching is so biblical? How is this possible?” When I tried to explain that we believed the Bible pointed in the direction of women in leadership, and that I’d be willing to work through the relevant texts with him, he was not satisfied. “There’s no way I’d ever be able to join a church that ordains women. But I’m really upset about this because I like this church so much.”
\nMany of my conversations with potential members had to do, not so much with theology as with practical questions about ministry and mission. Folks wanted to be in a church where they could get involved with the work of Christ. They were excited about our church’s ministries in the local community and beyond. They wanted to join us as we fed pizza to high schoolers or built homes for homeless families in Mexico.
\nWhile I was pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church, the congregation grew from the upper 500s to the upper 700s. We are one the larger side of mid-sized churches. This meant is was possible for potential members to meet with me personally. In larger churches, it’s sometimes difficult or impossible for people to meet with the senior pastor. While I was on the staff of Hollywood Presbyterian Church, for example, a person who wanted to make an appointment with Lloyd Ogilvie was able to do so, but there was often about a one-year waiting period. Given the size of the church, then over 4,000, and the widespread popularity and influence of Lloyd Ogilvie, this kind of delay was understandable. But it meant that, in reality, most people who wanted to learn about the church were better served by meeting with one of the associate pastors, with whom they could get an appointment in just a few days. So, if you’re considering a large church, my advice would be: Meet with one of the pastors. (Photo: Lloyd Ogilvie and me at my installation as pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church)
\nIt may seem like I’m giving the pastor or pastors too much of a role in the church-choosing business. After all, isn’t the church far more than its pastor? Yes, indeed. But, in my experience, pastors are usually able to represent accurately the church they shepherd. Plus, it’s important to know what the chief preacher(s) and teacher(s) believe.
\nBefore my family joined St. Mark Presbyterian Church in Boerne, I did indeed meet with Pastor John Watson. Over lunch at the Boerne Grill we became acquainted. It was more of a “get-to-know-you” meeting than an theological examination. I was especially interested in the kind of person he was. One of the things that matters most to be about a church is the integrity of the pastor. I need to know that my pastor is truly seeking to honor Christ, not only in ministry, but also in daily discipleship. After my meeting with John, I knew I’d be glad to be one of his flock.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Part 7 of series: Choosing a Church: Some Recommendations Permalink for this post \/ Permalink for this series So far I’ve put up three recommendations for those who are looking for a new church home: #1: Clarify what you value most in a church, though with an open mind and heart. #2: Look for a…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":214,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[47],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-454","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-choosing-a-church"],"yoast_head":"\nRecommendation #4: Meet with the Pastor - Mark D. 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Roberts","description":"Mark D. Roberts: Thoughtfully Christian Reflections on Jesus, the Church, and the World","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/1ff094a57b7e41f534434b1723df3d73","name":"Mark D. Roberts","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","caption":"Mark D. Roberts"},"description":"The Rev. Dr. Mark D. Roberts is a pastor, author, retreat leader, speaker, and blogger. Since October 2007 he has been the Senior Director and Scholar-in-Residence for Laity Lodge, a multifaceted ministry in the Hill Country of Texas. Before coming to Laity Lodge, he was for sixteen years the Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church in Irvine, California (a city in Orange County about forty miles south of Los Angeles). Before his time at Irvine Pres, Mark served on the staff of the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood as Associate Pastor of Education. (Thanks to Janel Pahl for taking the photo to the right.) Mark studied at Harvard University, receiving a B.A. in Philosophy, an M.A. in the Study of Religion, and a Ph.D. in New Testament and Christian Origins. He has taught classes in New Testament for Fuller Theological Seminary and San Francisco Theological Seminary. Mark has written several books, including No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer (WaterBrook, 2005), Dare to Be True (WaterBrook, 2003), Jesus Revealed (WaterBrook, 2002), After \"I Believe\" (Baker, 2002), and Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther (Word, 1993). His most recent book is Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (Crossway, 2007). He is currently working on a commentary on Ephesians that will be published by Zondervan in 2014. Mark writes a devotional for The High Calling of Our Daily Work, a website associated with Laity Lodge. His \"Daily Reflections\" can be viewed online or sent as a daily email. If you wish to receive this email, just visit TheHighCalling.org and sign up. Mark serves on the editorial board of Worship Leader magazine, where he publishes articles and reviews, including his regular column \"Lyrical Poetry.\" Additionally, he has published dozens of articles in leading magazines and journals. He often speaks for churches and other Christian groups, and has been interviewed on over seventy-five radio programs nationwide. Mark is married to Linda, who is a Marriage and Family Therapist, a Spiritual Director, and a retreat speaker. They have two children, Nathan and Kara.For Publicity Photos and Bio Statements for Mark, please check here. Mark's Dossier Professional History: Senior Director and Scholar-in Residence, Laity Lodge, October 2007 to present. Senior Pastor Irvine Presbyterian Church, June 1991 to September 2007 Adjunct Assistant Professor Fuller Theological Seminary, 1994 to 2007. Courses: New Testament Theology and Exegesis. Adjunct Instructor San Francisco Theological Seminary, 1995 to 2001. Courses: New Testament Greek and Exegesis Associate Pastor of Education First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood, 1987-1991 Teaching Fellow Harvard University, 1980-1983 Education: Ph.D. in the Study of Religion. Harvard University, 1992. Area: New Testament and Christian Origins M.A. in the Study of Religion Harvard University, 1984. A.B. magna cum laude in Philosophy Harvard University, 1979. Phi Beta Kappa; Danforth Fellowship Books: Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Crossway, 2007 No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer. WaterBrook, 2005 Dare to Be True: Living in the Freedom of Complete Honesty. WaterBrook, 2003. Jesus Revealed: Know Him Better to Love Him Better. WaterBrook, 2002. After \"I Believe\": Experiencing Authentic Christian Living. Baker, 2002. Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther in the Communicator's Commentary Series. Word, 1993. Contacting Mark: You can reach Mark at: E-mail: mark@markdroberts.com mroberts@laitylodge.org Phone: Laity Lodge: (830) 792-1216 Address: Laity Lodge 719 Earl Garrett Kerrville, TX 78028","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/author\/mroberts"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/454","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/214"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=454"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/454\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=454"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=454"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=454"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}