{"id":234,"date":"2007-11-19T01:02:45","date_gmt":"2007-11-19T01:02:45","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/markdroberts\/2007\/11\/264.html"},"modified":"2007-11-19T01:02:45","modified_gmt":"2007-11-19T01:02:45","slug":"264","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2007\/11\/264.html","title":{"rendered":"Greg Ogden at Laity Lodge"},"content":{"rendered":"

Part 5 of series: Sharing Laity Lodge<\/em>
\nPermalink for this post<\/a> \/ Permalink for this series<\/a>
\n\"greg-ogden-laity-lodge\"This past weekend Greg Ogden<\/a> spoke at Laity Lodge, at a retreat for Westlake Hills Presbyterian Church of Austin, Texas. Greg is currently the Executive Pastor of Discipleship at Christ Church of Oak Brook, Illinois. Before going to Christ Church, Greg served as a pastor in several churches, mostly in California. He was also the Director of the Doctor of Ministry Program at Fuller Theological Seminary. Greg has written several books, including Unfinished Business: Returning the Ministry to the People of God<\/a><\/em> (Zondervan, 2003), Discipleship Essentials: A Guide to Build Your Life in Christ<\/a><\/em> (InterVarsity Press, 1998). Next month his new book, co-written with Dan Meyer, will be released: Leadership Essentials: Shaping Vision, Multiplying Influence, Defining Character<\/a><\/em> (InterVarsity Press, 2007). (Photo: Greg Ogden speaking at Laity Lodge)
\nI had not met Greg before this weekend, which is a bit strange, as I’ll explain below. I was familiar with him mostly because he and I share many friends in common, and because of his writings. Greg’s books, especially Unfinished Business<\/em> (which was published in an earlier version in 1990 as The New Reformation<\/em>) and Discipleship Essentials<\/em> have become popular classics because of their clarity and biblical faithfulness.
\n\"ogden-unfinished-business\"<\/a>Greg’s speaking is much like his writing: engaging, lucid, based on Scripture, and relevant to the challenges facing every Christian today. During the retreat he focused on “Returning the Ministry to the People of God,” using material from Unfinished Business<\/em>. His first message had the intriguing title, “Jesus is Not Enough.” Don’t worry about Greg’s orthodoxy. He believes that salvation comes only through Christ. But what Greg pointed out was that the Christian life is more than simply a personal, individualistic relationship with Jesus. It necessarily includes relationship with our fellowship disciples as we serve Jesus in the world.
\nIn his second message Greg explored the tricky issue of how to help churches move from a sub-biblical model in which pastors do all the ministry to a biblical one in which all members are also ministers. He asked many challenging questions, including one that really got me thinking:<\/p>\n

How do we help people have expectations that ministry received from fellow gifted members is equal to ministry received from the pastor?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

In my experience as a pastor, this question is not easy to answer in principle, but not in fact. If people grow up in the church with an understanding that the pastor is the professional caregiver, and if they tend to view pastors as somehow more spiritual than other members, then they are reticent to give up their expectations for pastors. If a church member is in the hospital and gets ten wonderful visits from other members trained by the pastor, but not one from the pastor himself or herself, chances are that this person will be unhappy with the pastor. It’s very, very hard to help people’s expectations for ministry change once they have experienced a traditional, pastor-centered model of church.
\n\"silver-creek-road-laity-lodge\"Greg is asking the right questions and addressing the right issues, in my opinion. If you’re not already familiar with his writings, let me recommend them to you. They are readable, well-informed, and solidly-based on Scripture. Unfinished Business<\/a><\/em> is one of the finest recent books on the ministry of all of God’s people. It’s a great resource for church leaders and adult educational classes. (Photo: A scene from Laity Lodge in the late autumn.)
\nOn a personal note, I mentioned above that I had not met Greg before this weekend, though I had known of him for years. He works with Dan Meyer, the Senior Pastor of Christ Church of Oakbrook, who is an old friend. Moreover, as it turns out, our lives are even more intertwined than I had expected. Greg and I are both graduates of Glendale High School, though I came along a few years after he did. His wife’s brother, Sam, was a classmate of mine at GHS and a good friend. Sometimes the world seems very small.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Part 5 of series: Sharing Laity Lodge Permalink for this post \/ Permalink for this series This past weekend Greg Ogden spoke at Laity Lodge, at a retreat for Westlake Hills Presbyterian Church of Austin, Texas. Greg is currently the Executive Pastor of Discipleship at Christ Church of Oak Brook, Illinois. Before going to Christ…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":214,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[23],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-234","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-sharing-laity-lodge"],"yoast_head":"\nGreg Ogden at Laity Lodge - Mark D. 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Before going to Christ…","og_url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2007\/11\/264.html","og_site_name":"Mark D. Roberts","article_published_time":"2007-11-19T01:02:45+00:00","author":"Mark D. Roberts","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2007\/11\/264.html","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/2007\/11\/264.html","name":"Greg Ogden at Laity Lodge - Mark D. 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Roberts","description":"Mark D. Roberts: Thoughtfully Christian Reflections on Jesus, the Church, and the World","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/1ff094a57b7e41f534434b1723df3d73","name":"Mark D. Roberts","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/f2d\/f2ddf5f080861f66ea230384f9d1bab2x96.jpg","caption":"Mark D. Roberts"},"description":"The Rev. Dr. Mark D. Roberts is a pastor, author, retreat leader, speaker, and blogger. Since October 2007 he has been the Senior Director and Scholar-in-Residence for Laity Lodge, a multifaceted ministry in the Hill Country of Texas. Before coming to Laity Lodge, he was for sixteen years the Senior Pastor of Irvine Presbyterian Church in Irvine, California (a city in Orange County about forty miles south of Los Angeles). Before his time at Irvine Pres, Mark served on the staff of the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood as Associate Pastor of Education. (Thanks to Janel Pahl for taking the photo to the right.) Mark studied at Harvard University, receiving a B.A. in Philosophy, an M.A. in the Study of Religion, and a Ph.D. in New Testament and Christian Origins. He has taught classes in New Testament for Fuller Theological Seminary and San Francisco Theological Seminary. Mark has written several books, including No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer (WaterBrook, 2005), Dare to Be True (WaterBrook, 2003), Jesus Revealed (WaterBrook, 2002), After \"I Believe\" (Baker, 2002), and Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther (Word, 1993). His most recent book is Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (Crossway, 2007). He is currently working on a commentary on Ephesians that will be published by Zondervan in 2014. Mark writes a devotional for The High Calling of Our Daily Work, a website associated with Laity Lodge. His \"Daily Reflections\" can be viewed online or sent as a daily email. If you wish to receive this email, just visit TheHighCalling.org and sign up. Mark serves on the editorial board of Worship Leader magazine, where he publishes articles and reviews, including his regular column \"Lyrical Poetry.\" Additionally, he has published dozens of articles in leading magazines and journals. He often speaks for churches and other Christian groups, and has been interviewed on over seventy-five radio programs nationwide. Mark is married to Linda, who is a Marriage and Family Therapist, a Spiritual Director, and a retreat speaker. They have two children, Nathan and Kara.For Publicity Photos and Bio Statements for Mark, please check here. Mark's Dossier Professional History: Senior Director and Scholar-in Residence, Laity Lodge, October 2007 to present. Senior Pastor Irvine Presbyterian Church, June 1991 to September 2007 Adjunct Assistant Professor Fuller Theological Seminary, 1994 to 2007. Courses: New Testament Theology and Exegesis. Adjunct Instructor San Francisco Theological Seminary, 1995 to 2001. Courses: New Testament Greek and Exegesis Associate Pastor of Education First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood, 1987-1991 Teaching Fellow Harvard University, 1980-1983 Education: Ph.D. in the Study of Religion. Harvard University, 1992. Area: New Testament and Christian Origins M.A. in the Study of Religion Harvard University, 1984. A.B. magna cum laude in Philosophy Harvard University, 1979. Phi Beta Kappa; Danforth Fellowship Books: Can We Trust the Gospels? Investigating the Reliability of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Crossway, 2007 No Holds Barred: Wrestling with God in Prayer. WaterBrook, 2005 Dare to Be True: Living in the Freedom of Complete Honesty. WaterBrook, 2003. Jesus Revealed: Know Him Better to Love Him Better. WaterBrook, 2002. After \"I Believe\": Experiencing Authentic Christian Living. Baker, 2002. Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther in the Communicator's Commentary Series. Word, 1993. Contacting Mark: You can reach Mark at: E-mail: mark@markdroberts.com mroberts@laitylodge.org Phone: Laity Lodge: (830) 792-1216 Address: Laity Lodge 719 Earl Garrett Kerrville, TX 78028","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/author\/mroberts"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/234","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/214"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=234"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/234\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=234"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=234"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/markdroberts\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=234"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}