{"id":4844,"date":"2009-04-29T14:49:09","date_gmt":"2009-04-29T14:49:09","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/jesuscreed\/2009\/04\/coming-conversations.html"},"modified":"2009-04-29T14:49:09","modified_gmt":"2009-04-29T14:49:09","slug":"coming-conversations","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jesuscreed\/2009\/04\/coming-conversations.html","title":{"rendered":"Coming Conversations"},"content":{"rendered":"

We will begin this Friday and then next week two new conversations. One will be about Andrew Marin’s new book about homosexuality and the Church, called Love Is an Orientation: Elevating the Conversation With the Gay Community<\/a>\"\"
\n<\/strong><\/em>. <\/p>\n

And the second will be about Tom Wright’s new book, Justification: God’s Plan and Paul’s Vision<\/a>\"\"
\n<\/strong><\/em>. Last week’s post about the New Perspective<\/a> sets some of the context of Tom Wright’s debate with John Piper, who has been interviewed about it here<\/a>. Here is how John Piper defines justification in that interview: “In the New Testament, justification is the moment or the event when you
\nput your faith in Jesus Christ and at that moment God is no longer
\nagainst you–he’s for you, and he counts you as acceptable, forgiven,
\nrighteous, obedient because of your union with Christ. You are
\nperfectly acceptable to God and he is totally on your side.”<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n


\nPiper goes on: “Justification, I believe, is the way the Bible describes that moment..
\nJustification is the act by which God says, “I no longer count you
\nguilty. I count you as righteous with the righteousness of my son.”
\nThat’s a saving moment, clustered with the call. Wright sees our call
\nas the only decisive saving moment. And I want to put with the call the
\nwork of God in justifying me.”<\/p>\n

And: “I think the New Perspective on Paul and other kinds of theologies
\nflowing from it are giving God only part of the glory he deserves. They
\nare missing the glory of Christ as our substitute obedience and our
\nsubstitute sacrifice and punishment, and the glory that on the basis of
\nthose two things, we have God totally on our side.” [I quibble here
\nwith the tacit implication that NT Wright’s version of the New
\nPerspective is “the” New Perspective, but double imputation is central
\nto how Piper understands the gospel and justification. Tom doesn’t
\nthink the NT teaches either gospel or justification in those terms.]<\/p>\n

And one more concluding comment by Piper: “I want to prevent the reality of justification from moving off of
\nthe point where I become a Christian. I want to keep it right there,
\nbecause that’s where I believe the Bible locates it. I become a
\nChristian by what happens in the event of justification. That’s the
\nfirst thing. I want to keep justification from moving off of the basis of Christ’s
\ndeath and obedience. And I want to keep the doctrine of justification
\nfrom moving off of the imputation of that obedience to me by faith
\nalone in union with Jesus Christ, so that my confidence in God being
\ntotally for me is resting not in what I do, but in what Christ did.”<\/p>\n

For Piper, justification refers to the moment of conversion\/becoming a Christian. It comes by way of double imputation. Wright does not see things that way. Join us next Monday as we dip into this conversation.
\n<\/p>\n

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We will begin this Friday and then next week two new conversations. One will be about Andrew Marin’s new book about homosexuality and the Church, called Love Is an Orientation: Elevating the Conversation With the Gay Community . And the second will be about Tom Wright’s new book, Justification: God’s Plan and Paul’s Vision .…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":70,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[44],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4844","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-biblical-studies"],"yoast_head":"\nComing Conversations - Jesus Creed<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jesuscreed\/2009\/04\/coming-conversations.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Coming Conversations - Jesus Creed\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"We will begin this Friday and then next week two new conversations. 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