{"id":136,"date":"2009-04-23T16:13:56","date_gmt":"2009-04-23T16:13:56","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/jazztheologian\/2009\/04\/interview-with-world-vision-president-richard-stearns.html"},"modified":"2009-04-23T16:13:56","modified_gmt":"2009-04-23T16:13:56","slug":"interview-with-world-vision-president-richard-stearns","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/2009\/04\/interview-with-world-vision-president-richard-stearns.html","title":{"rendered":"Filling the ‘Hole’: Interview with World Vision President Richard Stearns"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"Hole<\/a>(I interviewed Mr. Stearns on behalf of UrbanFaith.com.<\/a>  Also appearing at Sojourners online<\/a>)<\/p>\n

\"Richard<\/a> As the pastor of
\na church<\/a> with a deep desire to love others as Christ would, I\u2019ve recently been telling
\nfolks, \u201cIf you only read one book this year, then you must read The Hole in Our Gospel<\/em> by Richard
\nStearns.\u201d And that's saying a lot given that my own book<\/a> just came out!  I feel that strongly about Stearns's message.<\/p>\n

\n

<\/p>\n

\nStearns,
\nwho has been the president of World Vision U.S. since 1998, has a love for God
\nand a passion for hurting people that\u2019s immediately evident. A former CEO for
\nParker Brothers and Lenox, Inc., he jettisoned a lucrative career in corporate
\nAmerica to answer God\u2019s call to humanitarian ministry. And a decade later, he
\nsays he has no regrets. \u201cThe world we live in is under siege,\u201d he says, before
\nticking off the severity of our problems\u2014famine, AIDS, war, ethnic cleansing,
\nterrorism. \u201cThree billion are desperately poor,\u201d he continues, \u201cone billion are
\nhungry, millions are trafficked in human slavery, 10 million children die
\nneedlessly each year. And in the midst of this stands the church in America,
\nwith resources, knowledge, and tools unequaled in the history of Christendom.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

In The Hole in Our Gospel<\/a><\/em> (Thomas Nelson),
\nStearns offers an unflinching critique of American Christianity and the growing
\ndivide between \u201crich Christians\u201d and the world\u2019s poor. For Stearns, the burning
\nquestion for the church, and the subtitle of his book, is this: What does God
\nexpect of us? If we answer that question prayerfully and honestly, Stearns
\nbelieves it could change our lives\u2014and the world. I recently chatted with him
\nabout the alleged hole in our faith, the work of World Vision<\/a>, and (of course)
\njazz. (Interviewed on behalf of UrbanFaith.com<\/a>)<\/span><\/p>\n

JAZZ THEOLOGIAN:
\nYou see a hole in our gospel; what is it, and why is it there?<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span><\/p>\n

RICHARD STEARNS:<\/span><\/strong> Many people
\nbelieve that the gospel — and its message of salvation — represents a private
\ntransaction, almost a \u201cfire insurance policy,\u201d between them and God. I contend
\nthat Jesus Christ proclaimed a broader, bolder vision of the gospel, a gospel
\nthat proclaims Christians are to be \u201csalt and light\u201d in the world. Jesus
\nintended that His followers would be on the vanguard of a social revolution
\nthat would change our world. We were to lift up the poor and the
\ndowntrodden; care for the sick; fight for the oppressed; challenge injustice; and
\nlove our neighbors — and our enemies — as ourselves. Our faith was never
\nmeant to be only a \u201cfire insurance policy\u201d for our own security. It was meant
\nto change everything in our world.
\n<\/span><\/p>\n

Your book
\ndescribes your personal journey that led you to discovering the \u201chole in your
\nown heart.\u201d Does the remedy lie in the individual student being ready to
\nsee what is so clear in the Scriptures, or do we need to address institutional
\nholes in our churches, seminaries, etc.?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

A lot of our churches and seminaries focus too much on believing
\nthe right things, rather than doing the right things. Yes, there has long been
\na debate about faith versus works as the path to salvation. It\u2019s not an \u201ceither\/or,\u201d
\nbut rather a \u201cboth\/and.\u201d For example, in Luke 6, Jesus admonishes His
\nfollowers: \u201cWhy do you call me, \u2018Lord, Lord,\u2019 and not do what I say?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Later, James states clearly and unequivocally that belief is not
\nenough. Faith must be accompanied by actions. In many ways, that is
\nsimilar to a comment from my former pastor and good friend Gary Gulbranson:
\n\u201cIt\u2019s not what you believe that counts; it\u2019s what you believe enough to do.\u201d
\nSo, while it is first our individual responsibility to be faithful to the
\ncommands of Christ, it is also important that our churches and seminaries to
\npreach \u201cthe W-H-O-L-E gospel,\u201d and not a diminished gospel, one with a H-O-L-E
\nin it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Your book is
\nbeing released during difficult economic times. Do you think that this helps or
\nhinders your message?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Both. Millions of Americans today are facing severe economic
\nproblems. They cannot pay monthly bills; they are facing foreclosures on
\ntheir homes. No doubt, these are tough times and not times when giving to
\nhelp others is easily done. For the first time in decades, many of us are
\ngetting doses of that is feels like to be economically vulnerable. And for
\na lot of Americans, this is scary.<\/span><\/p>\n

On the other hand, the shared experiences many Americans currently
\nare having may make us more compassionate toward those less fortunate and who
\nmay be hurting. Despite the recession, we are seeing at World Vision that
\nour faithful child sponsors who donate $30 per month for their sponsored
\nchildren continue giving sacrificially. Why? Because they know that no
\nmatter the hardships we are facing here, our lives and our lifestyles are much,
\nmuch better than the poor in the developing world.<\/span><\/p>\n

You use a
\npowerful metaphor of \u201cone hundred crashing jetliners\u201d to describe the severity
\nof the issues we face around the world, with more than 26,000 children dying
\ndaily from poverty-related causes. In light of that, as followers of Jesus, are
\nwe trying to end poverty or is this about something else?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

The number of children who die every day — 26,000 — is the
\nequivalent of 100 jetliners filled with children, crashing every day, 365 days
\na year. It is shocking that this is happening and few of us are paying any
\nattention. So, yes, this speaks to the core of our faith and what we
\nbelieve. Are we, as Christians, okay with this, or are we going to do something
\nabout it? Whether we are successful or not in tackling this kind of deadly
\npoverty is secondary. But I don\u2019t believe Jesus gave us the option of
\napathy — not even trying. First and foremost, as Christians we are commanded
\nto serve the Lord, to be obedient to His calling for our lives. I believe
\nit was Mother Teresa who said, \u201cGod does not call us to be successful; He calls
\nus to be obedient.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

If we are obedient to God\u2019s call, we can make a difference in the
\nworld, a world where more than 2 billion people live on less than $2 a day.
\nI\u2019ve met many of those people. I\u2019ve been in their homes. I\u2019ve met their
\nchildren. And I have witnessed the transformation that occurs when someone
\nshows love and compassion, as well as when they receive education, clean water,
\nand proper healthcare. We can do this. I\u2019ve seen it with my own eyes. But
\nwe can\u2019t do it if we turn our eyes away from the poor.<\/span><\/p>\n

You were named<\/a> to
\nPresident Barack Obama\u2019s Advisory Council on Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships.
\nWhat does that entail?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

President Obama wants us to make recommendations on how to best
\nengage faith-based and neighborhood organizations in four areas of social
\nservice delivery: economic recovery in the U.S., reducing the number of
\nabortions and teen pregnancies, responsible fatherhood, and promoting positive
\ninternational religious dialogue. I am serving on a sub-group on the role of
\ninternational development. My duties and those of the other members are to
\nadvise President Obama on ways faith-based organizations can assist in pursuing
\nthose priorities.<\/span><\/p>\n

Moreover, there\u2019s a \u201cbroader tent,\u201d if you will, in this advisory
\ngroup. President Bush\u2019s faith-based office, right or wrong, was associated
\nprimarily with evangelicals. This council includes not just Christians of
\nmany stripes, but also people of other faiths and people of no faith.<\/span><\/p>\n

How do you feel
\nPresident Obama has done so far when it comes to the economy, life issues,
\netc.?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Quite simply, I believe it is too early to tell. But President
\nObama is taking decisive action to help address the recession. I also believe
\nhe has genuine interest in volunteerism and inspiring volunteers to help those
\nwho are marginalized, both in the United States and internationally.<\/span><\/p>\n

Could you talk a
\nbit about the roles and responsibilities of the church and government when it
\ncomes to the hole in our gospel? Should it all up to the church, and the
\ngovernment is just doing our job until we get our act together? In other
\nwords, should we embrace partnerships with governments or be wary of them?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

As Christians, each of us has a personal responsibility for caring
\nfor the most vulnerable, regardless of what the government does or does not do.
\nChurches should always be out front on these issues \u2013 that\u2019s part of the
\nessence of the \u201cgood news\u201d inherent in this gospel we embrace. But I
\nbelieve the faith community and the government can work together in meeting the
\nneeds of the poor. World Vision has been receiving government grants for
\nmore than 25 years for our work in the developing world and, more recently, for
\nour work in the U.S. We receive those funds not because we are Christian, but
\nrather because of the quality of our work. I believe President Obama \u2013-
\nand President George W. Bush before him \u2013- wants organizations of all faiths to
\nhave a level playing field when it comes to applying for grants. He has seen
\nthe effectiveness of faith-based and community groups in delivering social
\nservices in Chicago and sees the positive benefits of the work of those types
\nof organizations.<\/span><\/p>\n

There\u2019s a new book out by Zambian economist Dambisa Moyo<\/a> called <\/span>Dead Aid<\/a><\/em> which argues that foreign aid
\nto Africa is not effective and that it\u2019s bad for the continent.  How do
\nyou answer her concerns?<\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

(here\u2019s an article from Newsweek: <\/span>http:\/\/www.newsweek.com\/id\/190375<\/a>)<\/span><\/p>\n

Ms. Moyo states that her book doesn\u2019t address charity-based aid or
\nemergency relief by organizations like World Vision. Rather, she discusses
\naid payments to governments of developing countries from either other
\ngovernments or from international institutions like the World Bank.<\/span><\/p>\n

She does point out some legitimate problems with foreign aid, but
\nMs. Moyo overstates her case — both in reference to the seriousness of
\nproblems with aid and the best ways to help the economies of African nations
\nbecome self-sufficient. For example, she writes that \u201c\u2026 aid has been, and
\ncontinues to be, an unmitigated political, economic, and humanitarian disaster
\nfor most parts of the developing world.\u201d That simply isn\u2019t true. I know because
\nI\u2019ve seen it firsthand. While aid has, at times, been ineffective and has
\ndone damage in some cases, foreign aid has also saved countless lives.
\nGeneralizations about removing all aid aren\u2019t helpful — people will
\ndie. But improving aid is certainly an ongoing goal.<\/span><\/p>\n

As the Jazz
\nTheologian, I\u2019m obligated to ask you this final question: Do you like jazz
\nmusic? And if so, who do you listen to?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Sorry, but most of my time in the car is spent listing to audio
\nbooks. My musical knowledge is pretty pathetic — something I would like
\nto change. You might say that there\u2019s a hole in my listening!<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Find out more about Richard Stearns and his book at <\/span>www.theholeinourgospel.com<\/a>.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

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(I interviewed Mr. Stearns on behalf of UrbanFaith.com.  Also appearing at Sojourners online) As the pastor of a church with a deep desire to love others as Christ would, I\u2019ve recently been telling folks, \u201cIf you only read one book this year, then you must read The Hole in Our Gospel by Richard Stearns.\u201d And that's saying…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":79,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-136","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-interviews"],"yoast_head":"\nFilling the 'Hole': Interview with World Vision President Richard Stearns - The Jazz Theologian<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/2009\/04\/interview-with-world-vision-president-richard-stearns.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Filling the 'Hole': Interview with World Vision President Richard Stearns - 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Robert Gelinas on Composing a Jazz-Shaped Faith","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/#\/schema\/person\/5e3ecb360405bd8603a61c7115194e01","name":"Robert Gelinas","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/fbe\/fbe4a8ffc24002390e969652fba5c72bx96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/fbe\/fbe4a8ffc24002390e969652fba5c72bx96.jpg","caption":"Robert Gelinas"},"description":"\"For more information visit: Jazztheologian.com Robert Gelinas is Lead-Pastor (and resident Jazz Theologian) of Colorado Community Church\u00e2\u20ac\u201da multi-cultural, interdenominational community of 3000+ followers of Christ in the Denver area. Author of Finding the Groove: Composing a Jazz-Shaped Faith (Zondervan) and the upcoming, Strange Fruit: The Cross as a Way of Life (2011). Founder of Project 127, a ministry dedicated to seeing the day when there are no children waiting for homes in Colorado's foster care system. Robert deeply desires to see the body of Christ mobilized to serve the least of these. The poor, the down and out, the disenfranchised and disabled, those deemed unimportant and the unborn. He believes that God loves all people yet he has a special heart for the poor and the poor in spirit, the miserable and the marginalized. A Contributing Editor for Leadership Journal and Urbanfaith.com. He acquired a B.A. in Bibilcal Studies from Colorado Christian University and a Master of Arts in World Christianity (Missiology) from Denver Seminary. Robert is married to the love of his life, Barbara, and they have six energetic children (3 boys & 3 girls--one bio, five adopted--two from Ethiopia). Friend of God...Passionate about the Body of Christ...Lover of this thing called jazz! Please visit Jazztheologian.com for contact info., speaking schedule, videos, Facebook and Twitter.","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/author\/rgelinas"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/136","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/79"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=136"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/136\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=136"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=136"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/jazztheologian\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=136"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}