{"id":1117,"date":"2013-01-16T05:29:00","date_gmt":"2013-01-16T11:29:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/fearofwhales\/?p=1117"},"modified":"2013-01-09T05:29:46","modified_gmt":"2013-01-09T11:29:46","slug":"expel-the-immoral-brother","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/fearofwhales\/2013\/01\/expel-the-immoral-brother.html","title":{"rendered":"Expel The Immoral Brother"},"content":{"rendered":"

I wrote earlier about profanity<\/a>. I argued that the bible often finds profanity necessary to make it\u2019s point. At the time I said that I wanted to make that point not just to defend profanity, but because there were other points that I felt were important to make, that rested on that point as a premise. <\/p>\n

This is one of them <\/p>\n

This article used language some may consider offensive, because it deals with topics the bible considers offensive. If you are not okay with that, go here<\/a> instead.<\/strong><\/p>\n

1 Corinthians 5<\/sup><\/h5>\n

English Standard Version (ESV)<\/sup> <\/p>\n

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. <\/sup><\/p>\n

3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.<\/sup> <\/p>\n

6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. <\/sup><\/p>\n

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people\u2014 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.<\/sup> 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler\u2014not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. \u201cPurge the evil person from among you.\u201d<\/sup> <\/p>\n

This passage is preached on occasionally by pastors who fancy themselves as bold, and willing to talk about what scripture says even if people don\u2019t like it. It is used to justify the power of the governing body of whatever platform the speaker happens to be speaking from to decide whose in and whose out. <\/p>\n

I think that interpretation is understandable. After all the plain reading of the text is that Paul is asking for somebody to be kicked out of the church and if Paul did it that means we can do it if we need to. It\u2019s even paralleled in Matthew 18 <\/p>\n

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church,let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.<\/sup> <\/p>\n

With these two verses it is not hard to justify a biblical argument for excommunication. The occasional expulsion of a brother from the family of God (or at least from the local expression thereof). <\/p>\n

But even though that interpretation is understandable, I think it\u2019s wrong. I think it misunderstands both the role of the church and the church universal, and it has become default because of cultural factors in the 21st century and the desire of sinful men like me to get power. <\/p>\n

I vehemently disagree and am considerably bothered by the implication that \u201clet him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.\u201d should mean \u201cKick them out of your local church\u201d <\/p>\n

We love our gentiles and our tax collectors, we invite them to church. We may think twice before asking them to teach a class, but we certainty don\u2019t sit them down with the elder board and tell them they don\u2019t belong. That flies in the face of just about everything in the book of Acts. <\/p>\n

1 Cor 5 However is less obvious. Let\u2019s look at it again closely together, and see if it still seems to be about an example for First Church Main St. to follow.<\/p>\n

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife.
<\/sup>
\u201dA man has his father\u2019s wife\u201d You know something is up when a translation that was published in 2001 still uses the phrasing from the KJV. Paul\u2019s actually quoting too <\/p>\n

Deut: 23:30A man shall not take his father’s wife, nor discover his father’s skirt.<\/sup> <\/p>\n

This comes at the end of a long argument about proper and improper practices in ancient Israel, and it arrives as a conclusion to a mounting list of sins that begins with divorce, then follows to adultery, then rape, and finally the most offensive of all: Having sex with your mom, creating a cultural understanding of an incredibly offensive act, and a horrible accusation in the ancient near east, that would be impossible to translate if not for the fact that the exact same offensive accusation exists in English. <\/p>\n

\u201dMother Fucker\u201d worse than a standard fucker, the mother fucker is among the most offensive phrases in the English language. That\u2019s what was going on in Corinth<\/p>\n

\u201cThere is sexual immorality among you, that is worse than all the orgys and pedophilia that the pagans approve of, this guy right here, Is a bonifide Mother Fucker\u201d<\/p>\n

2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn?<\/sup> <\/p>\n

Paul has written an earlier letter to the church in Corinth (0 Corinthians) That letter has been lost to time but from this verse we can gather some info about their response to his previous correspondence <\/p>\n

\u201dWell yeah we know he\u2019s a mother fucker, Isn\u2019t that awesome? but that\u2019s okay we know how to handle this kind of thing, It\u2019s not a problem\u201d<\/p>\n

Paul\u2019s response comes from the opposite posture <\/p>\n

Let him who has done this be removed from among you. <\/sup>
and later
deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh<\/sup> <\/p>\n

In modern cultural parlance \u201dThis Mother Fucker can go to hell!\u201d<\/p>\n

I love verses 9 and 10 <\/p>\n

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people\u2014 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.<\/sup> <\/p>\n

Lol true that, Paul. Do you ever realize how funny the bible is? It really is if you take the time to think about what is being said. If you didn\u2019t associate with sinful people there wouldn’t be anyone left to talk to. Good point <\/p>\n

Then he goes on <\/p>\n

11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler\u2014not even to eat with such a one. <\/p>\n

<\/sup><\/p>\n

Ouch. That\u2019s pretty clear. Don\u2019t associate with people who say they\u2019re Christian, but continue to sin. Don\u2019t even eat with them if they have problems with sex or alcohol or putting other things before God, or trying to accumulate money. Don\u2019t just kick them out of your church, refuse to associate with them. <\/p>\n

\u2026That\u2019s what it says. <\/p>\n

And if we are going to take this passage literally we need to do that. we need to kick all of the sinners out of our church including Paul himself who will confess continuing to struggle in Romans 7. Paul no longer has any place in our church and we won\u2019t listen to anything he says anymore and… wait I\u2019m confused. <\/p>\n

Maybe more context<\/p>\n

12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. \u201cPurge the evil person from among you.\u201d<\/sup> <\/p>\n

I sure wish more sermons on this chapter would focus on this verse rather than the one before it. Pastors who teach on it want to be brave and conservative, but they pick a verse that nobody has the spine to interpret completely conservatively, meanwhile there is a perfectly good point to be made about not judging non Christians. <\/p>\n

The end though brings it home. \u201cPurge the evil from among you\u201d (the word \u201cperson\u201d is not actually there in the greek) what is he quoting there? <\/p>\n

Why It\u2019s Deuteronomy 22 again <\/p>\n

22<\/sup> <\/sup>\u201cIf a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman. <\/sup>So you shall purge the evil from Israel. <\/p>\n

oh.<\/p>\n

\u2026<\/p>\n

OOOHHHH<\/p>\n

Kill them <\/p>\n

\u2026Kill\u2026Him\u2026 <\/p>\n

Kill the motherfucker. Says Paul send him to Satan for\u2026 the destruction of.. the flesh\u2026 <\/p>\n

He can go to hell\u2026 you mean literally\u2026 Oh dear <\/p>\n

There is beauty here. <\/p>\n

It\u2019s a very raw kind of beauty. But God had called the descendants of Abraham to be a nation set apart, where there would be no place for evil such as adultery. Here Paul is holding the church to that same glorious standard. <\/p>\n

His methods may seem extreme, or harsh, but we must not forget that he pens the words of scripture. Inerrant truth, and we must be faithful stewards to believe what it says, not what it wants us to say.<\/p>\n

It does not say kick someone out of church. It says kick them out of earth<\/em>. Are you prepared to believe that since it\u2019s what the bible says? <\/p>\n

I think we need to be. <\/p>\n

But we should also consider this <\/p>\n

2 Corinthians 2<\/sup><\/p>\n

1 For I made up my mind not to make another painful visit to you. 2 For if I cause you pain, who is there to make me glad but the one whom I have pained? 3 And I wrote as I did, so that when I came I might not suffer pain from those who should have made me rejoice, for I felt sure of all of you, that my joy would be the joy of you all. 4 For I wrote to you out of much affliction and anguish of heart and with many tears, not to cause you pain but to let you know the abundant love that I have for you.<\/sup><\/p>\n

5 Now if anyone has caused pain, he has caused it not to me, but in some measure\u2014not to put it too severely\u2014to all of you. 6 For such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough, 7 so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him. 9 For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything. 10 Anyone whom you forgive, I also forgive. Indeed, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ, 11 so that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.<\/sup><\/p>\n

\u201cMaybe I was too harsh in my last letter\u201d says Paul \u201cYou should forgive him\u2026 I will too\u201d <\/p>\n

Paul reveals his motives for writing. \u201cTo let you know the love I have for you\u201d \u201cto test you\u201d and he reveals the real work of Satan, not as a last resort to evangelize sinners, but to outwit us if we do not forgive. <\/p>\n

The passage has come full circle<\/p>\n

So in review.  <\/p>\n

-The general theme of scripture is one of grace,and adoption into an eternal family. <\/p>\n

– Matthew appears to offer an exception in one verse, but upon further examination that turns out not to be the case <\/p>\n

– In 1Cor 5 Paul does apparently suggest that sending someone to hell might be justifiable if they are habitually sleeping with their mother (a crime more offensive than serial rape) <\/p>\n

-But in 2 Corinthians he seems to regret being so harsh. and calls us all back to forgiveness.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

There is no biblical basis to be found in 1 Corinthians to say to a sinner \u201cwe love you and that\u2019s why we are sending you away from us until you repent\u201d. If you raise 1 Cor 5 to a christian sinner, what you are telling them is \u201cI think you\u2019re a Mother Fucker, get out!\u201d <\/p>\n

I don\u2019t deny that that may be necessary in some circumstances.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I wrote earlier about profanity. I argued that the bible often finds profanity necessary to make it\u2019s point. At the time I said that I wanted to make that point not just to defend profanity, but because there were other points that I felt were important to make, that rested on that point as a…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":391,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1117","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nExpel The Immoral Brother - A Fear of Whales<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/fearofwhales\/2013\/01\/expel-the-immoral-brother.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Expel The Immoral Brother - A Fear of Whales\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I wrote earlier about profanity. 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