{"id":270,"date":"2008-04-11T05:40:33","date_gmt":"2008-04-11T05:40:33","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/conversationswithgod\/2008\/04\/interview-with-nealepart-iii.html"},"modified":"2008-04-11T05:40:33","modified_gmt":"2008-04-11T05:40:33","slug":"interview-with-nealepart-iii","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/conversationswithgod\/2008\/04\/interview-with-nealepart-iii.html","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Neale-Part III"},"content":{"rendered":"

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\nSunday is Message Day on the blog. Monday through Friday we look at contemporary events and day-to-day occurrences at the intersection of Life and the New Spirituality\u2026but on Sunday, we reserve this space for a specific teaching derived from the material in Conversations with God<\/em>
\nThrough the years I have given hundreds of talks and written scores of articles revolving around this material. Every seven days we will present in this space a transcript or reprint of one of those presentations. We invite you to Copy and Save each one of them, creating a personal collection of contemporary and uplifting spiritual thought which you may reference at any time. We hope you will find this a constant source of insight and inspiration.
\nThis week\u2019s offering: An interview with NDW-Part III<\/strong><\/em>
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\nThis is an
\nInternet Radio Interview with Neale Donald Walsch
\nby SpiritualGrowthMonthly.com
\nPart III
\nMatt: One of the things you say in your book is that the process of actually asking for something implies that you don\u2019t already have it, and that this approach \u2013 the very act of requesting \u2013 in effect pushes the thing you want away\u2026
\nNeale: Well, of course, that\u2019s true. You don\u2019t ask for something you already have. You don\u2019t wish for something you already own.
\nYou don\u2019t ask for glasses to be on your face if you are already wearing glasses. People who wear glasses (there\u2019s not a person I know who wears glasses who has not done this) have laughed at themselves when they catch themselves looking for their glasses while they have their glasses on.
\nYou don\u2019t ask for things you already have. So the very act of asking for something actually moves us away from manifesting it, because you are announcing to the universe, which listens very carefully to your thought about something, that you do not now have it. This becomes your reality, because the universe doesn\u2019t know from \u201ctime.\u201d What you say Now is what is true for you Now, and it will continue to be true for you until you say something else.
\nDo you see now how powerful you are? God says, quite literally, \u201cYour word in My command.\u201d
\nBut there are many things we have that we don\u2019t know that we have; that is, it\u2019s not in our present experience. We\u2019ve lost our keys, we can\u2019t find our gloves, we have the love of another but we\u2019re not sure of it. So we don\u2019t know we have these things. We have them, but we don\u2019t know. We go to that person and say, \u201cDo you love me?\u201d and they say, \u201cOf course I love you. You know I love you, I\u2019ve told you that a thousand times. Why don\u2019t you know that?\u201d And we say, \u201cI don\u2019t know why I don\u2019t know it, I just keep wanting to ask you.\u201d What\u2019s true here is that we can\u2019t believe what someone else is telling us. We can\u2019t believe, inside of us, that we are lovable, so how could someone else love us?
\nSo there are many things we have that we don\u2019t know we have. That\u2019s called the Cloud of Unknowing. It\u2019s when our vision is clouded. We want the plane to take off, but visibility is limited. We want our lives to really take off, but visibility is limited.
\nMasters, on the other hand, are those who already know that they have everything they could ever hope for or wish to experience, right here, right now. They can see that, because they have infinite visibility. They know that it is merely a question of choosing what they desire and then calling it forth from the sea of infinite possibility. And that\u2019s the process by which Masters make manifest, in physical reality, whatever it is they wish to experience.
\nMatt: You say that God told you that the \u201csponsoring thought\u201d is more important than the secondary thought that\u2019s issuing the request.
\nNeale: That\u2019s what I\u2019m saying here. If we have a sponsoring thought — a deep-seated initial idea — that we already have what it is that we are not now experiencing, then we can experience it much more rapidly.
\nFor instance, in matters of love, if your sponsoring thought is: \u201cLove is mine.
\nNot only do I have love, I am love,\u201d you will have the experience of that very rapidly. You will have the experience as soon as you choose to notice that you already are that and have that.
\nSo it\u2019s a matter of creating a sponsoring thought that produces the outcomes we wish to experience in our relative reality, relatively soon. Sponsoring thoughts \u2013 that is, deep-seated ideas about something \u2013 are usually your first thoughts about anything\u2026but they do not have to be the last word on the subject. You can\u2019t change a sponsoring thought, but you can add a new one. That\u2019s where it becomes useful to say, \u201cOn second thought\u2026\u201d
\nWhen your first thought comes up for you and it is a sponsoring thought that you are not lovable, or that you are not abundant, or \u2013 and here\u2019s a typical one \u2013 you are \u201cnever that lucky\u201d, just say to your Self, \u201cOn second thought\u2026\u201d, and then have a new thought about it. You\u2019ll find that you can get out of that stagnant place and really move some energy around if you\u2019ll let yourself seriously entertain that new thought. That\u2019s why this is called the New Thought Movement.
\nSo if you think that you can\u2019t have something that you really want, or that the world will never change, or that life is just what it is and isn\u2019t going to get much better\u2026well, think again. Create a new sponsoring thought. Thoughts sponsor reality, so create a new sponsoring thought.
\nMatt: And you say that there are two kinds of sponsoring thoughts \u2013 fear and love \u2013 is that correct?
\nNeale: Yes. Basically all thought reduces itself to fear or love, and all reality arises from one of those two very basic and fundamental vibrations. There are only two basic vibrations, and those are the two. Everything else is a variation on the theme.
\nMatt: Well, if God is love, then there\u2019s the question of why did He create something bad, like fear?
\nNeale: God created a relative experience, a relative world. He created the realm of relativity, in which all things exist in relationship to themselves, across a grand scale.
\nIt\u2019s like saying if God created warm, then why did he create cold? He didn\u2019t create cold. In a sense, he didn\u2019t create warm either. He just created the thing called Temperature. That\u2019s what God created. God created a reality in which everything exists in varying degrees. It is we who have called those things \u2018good\u2019 or \u2018bad.\u2019
\nIf we can agree that God did not create warm, but rather, temperature, which is the first level of creation, then we simple look at: What temperature is it? Is it 90 degrees outside? Is it 30 degrees Celsius? What temperature is it? Or is it very cold? And is that \u2018good\u2019 or \u2018bad\u2019? And those are judgments that we will make.
\nI am using a simple example here, to make a point. \u2018Temperature\u2019 is the elementary essence, to use this simple example, of the things that are. And so, too, it is on the Scale of Good and Evil. God did not create \u2018good\u2019 and God did not create \u2018evil\u2019. Those are human inventions and human definitions. God simply created That Which Is, and it is we who have created \u2018good\u2019 and \u2018evil\u2019 by calling it that.
\nBy the way, we change that creation from time to time. That is, we call things evil that were not evil years ago. We call things good that we did not call good years ago. So even our scale changes and shifts from time to time. We are, in fact, the creators of our own reality, and we are calling things exactly what we choose for them to be.
\nShakespeare put it perfectly: \u201cNothing is evil lest thinking make it so.\u201d
\nMatt: How do you see the messages of Conversations with God applying to life \u201con the ground\u201d in the world today?
\nNeale: The message of God is very simple, direct and clear: We are all one. There\u2019s only one of us, and the idea of separation and what God calls \u201cseparation theology\u201d is what is creating the largest number of our problems in the world, and nearly all of our conflicts as well. This is because separation theology produces separation sociology, which ultimately produces separation pathology; that is, a pathological behavior that causes us to treat each other different from how we would treat ourselves.
\nIf we make that one, single shift in consciousness and we\u2019ll heal the world virtually overnight. And that\u2019s something that most people are aware of, at some level, but don\u2019t seem to be able to know how to apply as a functioning, practical truth in their day-to-day lives.
\nWhat is needed, therefore, is a new kind of spirituality, and the message of Conversations
\nwith God is that such a new spirituality could now be very beneficial on the earth. I am talking about a new understanding of God and of what God wants; a new understanding of life and what life really is; a new awareness of ourselves, who we really are, and what our right relationship is to each other, to God and to all of life\u2026
\nThose new understandings, generated by a new spirituality, could change the world. It would be impossible, to put it another way, for the people in the world to treat each other the way they\u2019re treating each other, if they thought that they were treating themselves in that way. But they don\u2019t. They see the so-called \u201cenemy\u201d as \u201cother\u201d than themselves. In fact, in some cases, they see their enemy even as sub-human, or as not human, as the infidel, as the apostate, as the person who deserves to be killed or eliminated
\nbecause they\u2019re not even human in some ways.
\nSo a fundamental shift must take place, this the Conversations with God books make very clear. We must shift our consciousness and create a new cultural story that redefines ourselves and who we are in relationship to each other, to life and to the thing that we call God, Allah or Brahman or Yahweh, or whatever it is that we choose to give as a name for All That Is.
\nMatt: Yes, it seems to be happening. A lot of people talk about a huge shift in consciousness that\u2019s going on.
\nNeale: Well, it better happen much faster and on a much broader scale. I know that it seems to be happening, but I think that what has to occur now is a speed-up in that process, an exponential increase in this whole process. If we don\u2019t see that, if we don\u2019t create it, then life as we know it on this planet could well be eliminated before we can put the solution into place.
\nThere is a great force now in the universe that is a working\u2014it is the extremist force, on the extreme left and the extreme right of all the political, social, economic and
\nspiritual questions of our time.
\nThese are extremists whose views are not merely unusual or revolutionary, but in fact, extreme, and these are people who believe that violence is an appropriate means to resolve the differences that exist across the spectrum of human thought.
\nIt is these extremists that have created much of the terror that we find in the day-to-day lives of our world.
\nMatt: When you face that kind of extremism, it\u2019s difficult to know what to do. How do you face that when you come across it?
\nNeale: We have to get uncomfortable again. The comfortable are the damned, in a sense. That\u2019s an old saying and I think it\u2019s true\u2026the comfortable are the damned.
\nThat is, they are condemned to lives of mediocrity. It is a sad truth that most people live
\nunexceptional lives because they\u2019re so comfortable; that is, most people, at least in
\ncertain parts of the world. It\u2019s not true of the largest number of people on the planet, but it is the uncomfortable who agitate, and always will. And it is the extremists among the uncomfortable who will take that agitation to extreme lengths in order to make the comfortable uncomfortable.
\nSo what we have to do is get uncomfortable without being made uncomfortable.
\nThat is to say, we need to be uncomfortable right now without having to have violence forced upon us in order to become uncomfortable. It\u2019s a sad observation that not enough people are uncomfortable with the fact that 400 children die an hour of starvation on this planet. Not enough people are uncomfortable with the fact that 500,000 people have been killed in Darfur, and over two million have been forced out of their homes. It\u2019s a sad fact that not enough people are uncomfortable with the oppression of the masses, with the prejudice that occurs in all parts of the world.
\nWith the way things are, we are just too comfortable and we do not look at the suffering
\nin the world, and we have become wildly self-indulgent and self-congratulatory and comfortable.
\nSo the solution is going to have to be, for those who are comfortable, to find a level of
\ndiscomfort sufficient to motivate them to get up, walk across the room and actually do something, rather than simply think or talk about it with regard to the people in the world who are not comfortable. Otherwise, the uncomfortable will become extreme in their reaction, and will change the world very quickly into a kind of place where none of us are
\ncomfortable any more, ever again. That\u2019s the place where we are right now in our world.
\nAll that will change that is a new outlook, and then a determination to do something about it, not just \u201com\u201d ourselves to death or sit in front of a candle, breathe deeply and
\nplay nice, soft music and talk about how nice the world really is, but actually to get out on the street where the rubber meets the road, and start making on-the-ground alterations and changes in our day-to-day life.
\nThat\u2019s where it\u2019s going to have to happen, because that\u2019s where the terror is happening.
\nMatt: Isn\u2019t the feeling uncomfortable, though, part of the problem, because if we\u2019re focusing on negative aspects of experience, are we not just creating more of that? Is it not the solution to focus more on the positive changes that we want?
\nNeale: Yes, but the positive changes in what? You can\u2019t change nothing, you can only change something, therefore you have to be thinking about what you want to change. That means you\u2019ve got to be aware of what you want to change.
\nFocusing on the uncomfortable is not what we\u2019re talking about here. We\u2019re talking about noticing the uncomfortable truths and then focusing on the way we want things to be. But if you want to focus on the positive, if you want to focus on the changes you wish to make, you have to know what you\u2019re trying to change. What are you trying to change? In order to know what you\u2019re trying to change, you\u2019ve got to think about that. You\u2019ve got to think about the bad things in the world that are going on because those are the things you want to change. You just can\u2019t say, \u201cI want to change\u2026I can\u2019t mention what I want to
\nchange, because that would be focusing on the negative. But I want to change something, I know that. I want to change something.\u201d No, you have to actually say, \u201cI want to change prejudice. I want to change the oppression of people. I want to change the conditions that create starving children.\u201d
\nYou\u2019ve got to look at that and say, \u201cThat\u2019s what I want to change.\u201d Part of the problem in the new-age community is that we get into this idea that we\u2019ve got to focus only on the positive, only on the positive \u2013 be the change you wish to see \u2013 only on the positive. But changing what? Even positive thinkers have got to say, \u201cOkay, there is a train coming down the tracks.\u201d That\u2019s just what\u2019s so. Now, do we want to get off the tracks or do we want to throw more people on the tracks? What do we want to do?
\nMatt: So we first need to appreciate and really understand where we are now before we can help to change something.
\nNeale: We have to be aware of what we already have created. The process is really quite simple. We are all creating our own reality, that is true, but in order to change the reality we have created and make it different in the future, we have to acknowledge, at the very
\nleast, what we have created in our most recent past.
\nTo observe that the train is coming is not to put it there. If I observe that a train is coming, I\u2019m not actually creating it. People say, \u201cDon\u2019t say that, don\u2019t say that. Are you trying to create that?\u201d Whoa, wait a minute, I\u2019m not creating anything, I\u2019m just observing it. If I observe that a train is coming, I haven\u2019t crated it, I\u2019ve simply observed that it was
\ncreated already, it\u2019s already on the way. In a past moment, that was created. Yes, it was me who created it, but that was Then and this is Now.
\nIn the Now I have a whole different decision. Given that the train coming down the tracks has already been created, what do I now wish to create? What is the best way to do it? Id I want to create a new future, is the best way to create that to ignore the train that\u2019s coming, or to get out of its way?
\nMatt: Get out of its way.
\nNeale: Of course, obviously. So we have to first observe what we have created in our past, including in our most recent past. We can\u2019t ignore it and we can\u2019t put our heads in the sand like an ostrich and pretend it\u2019s not there. We have to notice what\u2019s there and then say, \u201cNow, what do I choose?\u201d So I have a bit of impatience with people who say, \u201cDon\u2019t talk about that, don\u2019t say anything negative!\u201d
\nMatt: Really? Impatience?
\nNeale: Yes, of course. Just like Jesus in the temple, when he took out a rope and tied knots in it and drove the money changers out of the temple. \u2018You vipers!\u2019 he said,
\n\u2018You hypocrites!\u2019 I would call that a little impatient. And he was called the greatest Master of all time by some people. So if it\u2019s good enough for Christ, it\u2019s good enough for me.
\nMatt: Was that not righteous anger?
\nNeale: What\u2019s the difference between righteous anger and impatience? How many angels fit on the end of a pin? Let\u2019s split words in half.
\nMatt: Okay, I\u2019m just throwing it out there for further discussion.
\nNeale: Sure, and I\u2019m willing to discuss it with you. Let\u2019s talk about it. What\u2019s the difference between impatience and righteous indignation or righteous anger? It\u2019s the same thing. In fact, the motto of my group of 1,000 is \u201cbe impatient.\u201d I think that righteous anger leads to impatience, or impatience leads to righteous anger \u2013 it\u2019s all a circle, getting to the same place. But there\u2019s nothing wrong with impatience. All great masters have become impatient. There\u2019s nothing wrong with anger. Anger is one of the five natural emotions. It\u2019s what you do with your anger that matters. If you use anger to fuel your earnest desire for change, and to work hard to make change happen, then anger is good, anger is powerful. If you use anger to hurt other people, to lash out, to attack, to destroy, rather than to rebuild in a new way, then anger may not be so good.
\nGandhi\u2019s impatience with British rule over India created an entirely new nation-state. Martin Luther King Jr.\u2019s impatience with prejudice in the United States created the civil rights movement. I\u2019m all for impatience.
\nMatt: I suppose it depends upon the spirit in which that impatience is expressed.
\nNeale: Of course; everything does. That is true of every single thought one has. That is correct.
\nMatt: All of these things we\u2019re talking about apply to our personal lives as much as they do to the entire planet.
\nNeale: Indeed, because we are all one, and that is what is true.
\nMatt: A lot of the beliefs we\u2019ve grown up with teach us that God has a plan for our lives already, before we were born. Some people say that we came here, we chose who are parents were going to be, et cetera\u2026
\nNeale: We did do that. That doesn\u2019t mean we had a plan. Choosing the colors of your palette doesn\u2019t mean you know what picture you want to paint. So we do choose the colors of our palette, very definitely. We choose the colors of our palette with each
\nentry into life. We still have the paintbrush and the canvas is blank. We have no idea of the picture we\u2019re going to paint; we simply know the colors we\u2019re going to use. And even then, we create new colors along the way by mixing some of the colors on our palette.
\n\u201cDon\u2019t mix yellow and blue\u2014you\u2019re going to get green!\u201d I intend to get green, thank you very much; please step aside. So in fact, we do choose the colors of our palette, we do choose our parents, we do choose things, I\u2019m told, like our place of birth or our racial composition or our nationality and those kinds of things, from life to life and from moment to moment, in the eternity of now. But that does not mean we have a plan in mind, nor does it mean that God has a plan in mind. God just says, \u201cHere are the tools for your next lifetime,\u201d and the palette is empty and the space is clear. What do you now choose to create? Interesting analogy, isn\u2019t it?
\nMatt: So there is no plan, there is no map for us to follow. It\u2019s all our choice in what we\u2019re supposed to do?
\nNeale: Not even what we\u2019re supposed to do, because supposing to do something would indicate that there\u2019s some kind of plan. It is what we choose to do, what we wish to do.
\nMatt: Is it possible, do you think, to choose to do something which is wrong?
\nNeale: Right and wrong don\u2019t exist. Right and wrong are relative terms. Relative to what? \u201cWrong\u201d relative to what, in relationship to what? Is killing wrong? It all depends on why we\u2019re doing it, doesn\u2019t it? If you\u2019re killing someone to rob a bank or because you\u2019re jealous of your lover, that would be considered, by some people, wrong. If you\u2019re
\nkilling someone to save your two-month-old baby from being stabbed in the chest by a maniac who has come into your house in the middle of the night, some people would call that right.
\nSo right and wrong don\u2019t exist. Those are relative terms \u2013 relative to what we\u2019re trying to do. So of course it\u2019s possible to do something wrong by someone\u2019s definition. It\u2019s also possible to do something right by someone\u2019s definition, by doing the exact same thing.
\nIsn\u2019t that interesting? What a conundrum. What an adventure this thing called life is.
\nMatt: It certainly is. It\u2019s difficult to know, sometimes, what the best thing to do, or what\u2026
\nNeale: It\u2019s not difficult to know what the best thing to do is when you know what you\u2019re trying to accomplish. So what we have to be clear on is: What are we trying to accomplish?
\nFor instance, to use a simple example, are we trying to accomplish a thing called peace in the world? If we say we are, then perhaps we might want to reconsider whether we can do that by dropping bombs. That is, is it possible to solve a problem by using the same energy that created the problem? Einstein said no, and I think Einstein was right.
\nYou don\u2019t solve the problem of violence with violence. You don\u2019t solve the problem of hatred with more hatred. It\u2019s pretty simple when you think about it.
\nMatt: I suppose it\u2019s difficult if people have been locked into a certain way of being, or there\u2019s been a circle of violence or we\u2019ve lived a certain way for so long that that\u2019s all we\u2019ve known, or it seems that\u2019s all we\u2019ve known.
\nNeale: Yes, that\u2019s exactly right. It is difficult. I agree with you completely. It is difficult when that\u2019s all we\u2019ve known, which is why what is needed now in the world is to know something new. That is, to change our minds about God, about life, about each other, about why we\u2019re here and about how life could best function.
\nWe need a new cultural story. We need to write a brand-new cultural story, and that is what is needed now on the planet. So what is needed is really a whole system of education that could provide such a cultural story, such a brand-new thought about the world and how it is, and could give us a different basis from which to proceed as we choose to create our lives in the future.
\nYou\u2019re right; if we have had no other experiences except the experiences that you mentioned, if we\u2019re stuck in our story from yesterday, then it is going to be very difficult to create a new tomorrow. Yet, a new tomorrow can be created if we are willing to create a new story.
\nI would say that the future is very bright, but it is not going to be changed by going back to our yesterdays. The bright future of our tomorrow will not be found over our shoulder, but over the horizon.
\nMatt: Hopefully people like you and I can do something and help to change the consciousness of everything and bring about an improvement.
\nNeale: That is the great invitation that life sends to life itself, for regular people just like you and me to do exactly that, and we are able to do exactly that. It has only been people like you and me who have, in fact, done exactly that.
\nPeople who live exceptional lives are not necessarily exceptional people. They\u2019re just
\nordinary people like you and me. Martin Luther King Jr. was a regular person. Gandhi was just a regular person. He wasn\u2019t born on another planet, he wasn\u2019t anointed personally by God. He didn\u2019t receive some sort of special gift from the universe. He was a regular person like you and me. Mother Teresa was a regular lady, like a whole bunch of other people on this planet, but ordinary people doing extraordinary things \u2013 that\u2019s
\nwhat now will change the world.
\nMatt: Neale Donald Walsch, thank you very much for getting on the phone with me today. It\u2019s been interesting and enlightening. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
\nNeale: You\u2019re very welcome.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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