{"id":999,"date":"2008-02-29T10:00:00","date_gmt":"2008-02-29T10:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html"},"modified":"2008-02-29T10:00:00","modified_gmt":"2008-02-29T10:00:00","slug":"mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html","title":{"rendered":"Michael Leach: How Do You Move Beyond Blue?"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"mike3.jpeg\"
\nBecause both Eric\u2019s and my parents are divorced, we have had to find other role models in our lives to show us what a good marriage looks like. I have been lucky to know several happy couples in my life. Ben, my running partner who just died,<\/a> had been married to the love of his life, Betty, for over 50 years. Except for the Valentine\u2019s Day he gave her the old chocolate he found underneath the bed, Betty always said that \u201cmarrying Ben was the best thing I ever did.\u201d
\nBut the marriage I go to for counsel and instruction\u2014especially when I don\u2019t know how to handle a situation\u2014is the partnership of Vickie and Mike. Their relationship reminds me of my favorite marriage quote, by Anne Morrow Lindbergh,<\/a> on how marriage is a dance, an ebb and flow, each person taking turns stepping forward and back.
\nI feel incredibly lucky to have a mentor in my life like Mike because he has 30 years more experience in EVERYTHING than I do, so he knows many more answers. I find him to be so very wise.
\nSo I thought I\u2019d interview the guy that I\u2019m always talking about: the co-editor (with moi) of I Like Being Married<\/a> (although not to each other), my writing mentor, my spiritual director, and my marriage counselor \u2026 Mike Leach!
\n1) Hi Mike. Thanks for agreeing to share some of your wisdom with my Beyond Blue<\/a> readers. A book in my future will be \u201cMike\u2019s Rules for Relationships,\u201d because I think that your rules are much more practical than those stupid rules on how to get a guy to marry you. For example, I often remember Mike\u2019s Rule #1, when Eric and I are squabbling over something silly: \u201cYou don\u2019t always have to be right. But you do always have to be loving.\u201d You have said to me several times, and I can never repeat it enough, that it really doesn\u2019t matter who \u201cwins\u201d the argument. What matters is that it gets resolved in a loving way. Right?<\/strong>
\nWow, you remember more of what I say than I do! Thanks, Therese. I remember a line from A Course in Miracles: \u201cWould you rather be right, or happy?\u201d Marriage is a great classroom for learning to choose happiness. And like the song says, \u201cIt\u2019s easy\u2026 all you need is love!\u201d Of course, it helps to have a valid definition of love. I remember this one from Dr. Thomas Hora, author of Beyond the Dream: \u201cLove is non-conditional, non-personal benevolence.\u201d That helps me a lot.<\/p>\n


\n2) Another wise rule that I remember over and over again, not only when Eric and I disagree on something, but in my dealings with the other persons in our lives\u2014extended family and so forth is \u201cAlways err on the side of compassion.\u201d I love that. HOWEVER, how do I follow that without becoming codependent? That\u2019s my struggle, I think. I\u2019m so used to letting the other guy win that sometimes I\u2019m not sticking up for myself enough. But I see how it works for you. You are at the same time confident but compassionate. Oh, Mike. Will I ever be as evolved as you?<\/strong>
\nI\u2019m about as evolved as a five-year-old! Remember when you took the train up to see us because I was obsessive thinking myself into madness over a fence in our backyard? Lucky for me, I sometimes learn from my mistakes, but not always. But one thing I have been learning that applies to your question is that the two most powerful healing values we can nurture are forgiveness and compassion. Again I like the definitions of Dr. Hora: \u201cForgiveness is giving up blaming.\u201d And \u201ccompassion is understanding the lack of understanding.\u201d <\/a> Compassion is the highest form of love. Jesus expressed both on the cross when he said, \u201cFather, forgive them, for they know not what they do.\u201d Forgiveness \u2013 not blaming \u2013 and compassion \u2013 understanding the lack of understanding\u2013 prevent us from being co-dependent, and free us to love. That\u2019s what you did for me when I couldn\u2019t stop thinking about a stupid fence. It wasn\u2019t your words that helped me, it was the love you expressed just by showing up. You understood my lack of understanding \u2013 you\u2019d been there \u2013 and you didn\u2019t blame me. You were simply present. Thanks again!
\n3) Rule #3: Take Turns. I see how you and Vickie do this beautifully. When she was upset about something that happened at work, you were there for her, and vice versa. You both had parents to take care of, and you do that without diluting your vow to each other in any way. You were a team. So you\u2019d both travel south to do what needed to be done for her folks. And then you\u2019d fly to Chicago to check on yours. I guess you and I do that in our friendship, although I always feel like it\u2019s my turn. I think for every 40 turns I have, you have one. And in my marriage, since I am the one who is fighting a beast all the time, I feel like it\u2019s always my turn. How do I make it farer? Or does it have to be fair?<\/strong>
\nAs the great 20th century philosopher Robert De Niro says in Goodfellas, \u201cHey, it is what it is.\u201d There is no fair, there is no turn. We simply respond to manifest needs. That too is a high form of love. First we fall in love. That\u2019s the exciting part. Then we learn to love. That\u2019s the hard part. Finally, we simply love being loving. And that, by far, is the best part.
\n4) You could have let a few people get in between you and Vickie. I guess I can say this now, because your mom\u2019s deceased, right? She tried to drive a wedge between you and Vickie, but you guys wouldn\u2019t let her. You stuck up for Vickie, and wouldn\u2019t let her sneak between you. Rule #4 is \u201cYou are ONE. No one can get between you.\u201d What would your advice be to people who have in-laws or friends or any issue, really, that can very easily drive a wedge between couples? HOW do they stay as a team?<\/strong>
\nThat can be one of the biggest challenges in a marriage, and one that brings great consternation. It\u2019s not easy, and you have to forgive and have compassion on yourself as well as on those who are trying to manipulate or provoke you. With a parent, we\u2019re often trained to unconsciously blame ourselves for feeling anger and resentment toward them, and then we project it in the wrong direction, like at our spouse. It all hurts too much, it\u2019s all too confusing, and we begin to lose our spiritual vision. So first we have to understand our own lack of understanding and not blame ourselves for our feelings. Then we have to remember what marriage is: it\u2019s two people participating as one in the good of God, two people getting through life as one, two people learning to love as one. That includes expressing love to those who would hurt us, but it doesn\u2019t require that we participate in their issues or their ways of seeing the world. It may require that we be forthright with them and not see them often \u2013 and not blame ourselves \u2013 or them \u2013 for doing so. As a postscript, I had a dream about my mother the other night (she\u2019s been gone three years) and she appeared as young and beautiful and loving. Thank you, Mom!
\n5) Rule #5 is \u201cCompromise.\u201d It\u2019s key, yes! I so admire how you and Vickie tackle conflicting schedules or plans or decisions. You measure who feels the strongest, and you allow that person to \u201cwin.\u201d Again, you take turns. But that presumes your spouse is a generous giver and decent person like Vickie. What if you are married to a self-serving brat who wants everything her way? If you\u2019re married to a selfish, thoughtless spouse?<\/strong>
\nCompromise is easy. If I want to go the show and see There Will Be Blood and Vickie wants to see Juno even more, we go see Juno, then see There Will Be Blood at another time, or on DVD. I can\u2019t think of anything worth being willful about, and there\u2019s nothing more pleasant than just sitting next to each other in a dark movie house as we have for 40 years and sharing hot popcorn and a diet Coke \u2013 as long as the movie isn\u2019t Saw or something like that. Now if one of the partners is \u201ca self-serving brat,\u201d you\u2019ve got a problem alright, and about all you can do is behold them in a loving way (see definition of love), and remember the Zen koan about \u201cthe sound of one hand clapping.\u201d Don\u2019t clap back.
\n6) What would you say is the most important advice for a happy marriage?<\/strong>
\nFirst you\u2019ve got to be lucky, you\u2019ve got to marry the right person, and then you\u2019ve both got to be the right person. Someone asked George Burns what was the secret of his long and successful marriage. \u201cThat\u2019s easy,\u201d he said, \u201cI married Gracie!\u201d And I married Vickie — which does not, of course, leave me off the hook for being the right person! And what happens if over the course of a marriage one of the partners is committed to being the right person \u2013 kind, responsible, understanding, perseverant, faithful, and authentic \u2013 and the other is not? Divorce may be necessary. My parents divorced when I was five and I prayed until I was an adult that they get back together again. I loved both my parents and wanted to live with both of them in a harmonious family like so many of my friends did. Then I realized that just wasn\u2019t in the cards, it wasn\u2019t meant to be, it couldn\u2019t have happened. \u201cIt is what it is.\u201d God is in charge, and ultimately, we\u2019ll all be alright because somehow someway \u201ceverything is already alright.\u201d I\u2019m learning that whether we\u2019re married or single, divorced or widowed, we need be dependent only on God. God is Love.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Because both Eric\u2019s and my parents are divorced, we have had to find other role models in our lives to show us what a good marriage looks like. I have been lucky to know several happy couples in my life. Ben, my running partner who just died, had been married to the love of his…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":17,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[11],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-999","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-marriage"],"yoast_head":"\nMichael Leach: How Do You Move Beyond Blue? - Beyond Blue<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Michael Leach: How Do You Move Beyond Blue? - Beyond Blue\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Because both Eric\u2019s and my parents are divorced, we have had to find other role models in our lives to show us what a good marriage looks like. I have been lucky to know several happy couples in my life. Ben, my running partner who just died, had been married to the love of his…\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Beyond Blue\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2008-02-29T10:00:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/beyondblue\/files\/import\/mike3.jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Beyond Blue\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Michael Leach: How Do You Move Beyond Blue? - Beyond Blue","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Michael Leach: How Do You Move Beyond Blue? - Beyond Blue","og_description":"Because both Eric\u2019s and my parents are divorced, we have had to find other role models in our lives to show us what a good marriage looks like. I have been lucky to know several happy couples in my life. Ben, my running partner who just died, had been married to the love of his…","og_url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html","og_site_name":"Beyond Blue","article_published_time":"2008-02-29T10:00:00+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/beyondblue\/files\/import\/mike3.jpeg"}],"author":"Beyond Blue","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html","name":"Michael Leach: How Do You Move Beyond Blue? - Beyond Blue","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/beyondblue\/files\/import\/mike3.jpeg","datePublished":"2008-02-29T10:00:00+00:00","dateModified":"2008-02-29T10:00:00+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/#\/schema\/person\/47318cdf8063cc052eccff0c99db4e75"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html#primaryimage","url":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/beyondblue\/files\/import\/mike3.jpeg","contentUrl":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/beyondblue\/files\/import\/mike3.jpeg"},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/2008\/02\/mike-leach-how-do-you-move-bey.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Michael Leach: How Do You Move Beyond Blue?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/","name":"Beyond Blue","description":"Beliefnet Voices - Therese J. Borchard","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/#\/schema\/person\/47318cdf8063cc052eccff0c99db4e75","name":"Beyond Blue","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/45c\/45c6e619a20a364bd981e9dda64eaa02x96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/45c\/45c6e619a20a364bd981e9dda64eaa02x96.jpg","caption":"Beyond Blue"},"description":"Therese J. Borchard writes the daily blog, Beyond Blue, on Beliefnet.com. She is the author of Beyond Blue: Surviving Depression & Anxiety and Making the Most of Bad Genes and The Pocket Therapist. You may find her at her personal blog, her website, or you may follow her on Twitter @thereseborchard.","sameAs":["http:\/\/thereseborchard.com"],"url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/author\/tborchard"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/999","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/17"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=999"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/999\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=999"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=999"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/beyondblue\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=999"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}