{"id":241,"date":"2009-05-02T12:50:13","date_gmt":"2009-05-02T12:50:13","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.beliefnet.com\/apagansblog\/2009\/05\/spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue.html"},"modified":"2009-05-02T12:50:13","modified_gmt":"2009-05-02T12:50:13","slug":"spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/2009\/05\/spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue.html","title":{"rendered":"Spiritual Implications of the Torture Issue"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I was replying in the comments section to some arguments about my last post on the PEW poll and disproportionate LDS involvement in torture, but I ended up in territory that I decided merited a post of its own.<\/p>\n<p>For years many Christians have accused Pagans of not having a firm foundation for ethical behavior.&nbsp; In his challenging essay <a href=\"http:\/\/www.religion-online.org\/showarticle.asp?title=1577\">Cakes for the Queen of Heaven<\/a>,&nbsp;&nbsp; the brilliant sociologist of religion, <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Peter_L._Berger\">Peter Berger<\/a>,&nbsp;&nbsp; wrote an important essay on why transcendental monotheism was superior to a focus on the immanent Divine Feminine.&nbsp; Years ago one very bright evangelical even suggested to me that without the Christian example we would return to human sacrifice.&nbsp; I believe both have since moderated their views, but a great many less discerning minds have not.<\/p>\n<p><\/p>\n<p><!--more--><br \/>\nAggressively judgmental Christians have made similar attacks on secular<br \/>\nAmericans.&nbsp; They say they, and no one else, speaks for morality because<br \/>\nthey are in line with their god&#8217;s commands, and the rest of us are in<br \/>\n&#8220;rebellion.&#8221;&nbsp; At one time the Fundamentalist wing of this group called themselves &#8220;The Moral Majority,&#8221;<br \/>\nmodestly suggesting the rest of us were the &#8220;Immoral Minority.&#8221; <\/p>\n<p>This recent PEW poll, even with its weaknesses, indicates that arguments such as these are bull roar.&nbsp; The trend PEW found was clear: <a href=\"http:\/\/politics.theatlantic.com\/2009\/04\/pew_church-goers_like_torture_more.php\">the more you<br \/>\ngo to church the less likely you were to oppose torture no matter how<br \/>\ndefined<\/a>.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br \/>\nEmbarrassed evangelicals can attack the margin of error as<br \/>\ninsufficiently small to pinpoint them as the worst, but <i>if<\/i> the poll errors there, the deeper finding that<br \/>\ngreater church going correlates with greater acceptance of torture<br \/>\nremains.<\/p>\n<p>This poll came to my attention the same day as did a strong connection<br \/>\nbetween some LDS members and the actual implementation of torture.&nbsp; And<br \/>\nthe LDS as an institution has been very busy parading their claims to<br \/>\nmoral superiority over many of the rest of us as of late.<\/p>\n<p>As an institution the LDS been particularly aggressive in attacking gay<br \/>\nmarriage, providing an enormous amount of the funds used to pass<br \/>\nCalifornia&#8217;s Prop.8.&nbsp; Just a few days ago the very good Sci Fi writer<br \/>\n(I&#8217;ll give the devil his due) <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Orson_Scott_Card\">Orson Scott Card<\/a>,&nbsp; was made a Board Member<br \/>\nof the National Association for Marriage.&nbsp; They are the people who gave<br \/>\nus the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.boxturtlebulletin.com\/2009\/04\/08\/10521\">dishonest and incredibly over the top &#8220;gathering storm&#8221; ad<\/a>.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; NOM bills itself as<br \/>\nnot being anti-gay, but Card wants<a href=\"http:\/\/www.mormontimes.com\/mormon_voices\/?id=3237\"> gays criminalized and even advocates<br \/>\nARMED RESISTANCE<\/a> against any government that legalizes gay marriage.<br \/>\nThe very existence of gay marriage is an act of intolerance.&nbsp; If<br \/>\nCalifornians had not passed <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/California_Proposition_8_%282008%29\">Prop 8<\/a>,&nbsp; he would<br \/>\nadvocate taking up arms against them.&nbsp; He did this in a major Mormon<br \/>\npublication.&nbsp; <\/p>\n<p>Now we find LDS members are also disproportionately involved in depraved moral reasoning and actions.<\/p>\n<p>I think those Christians who set themselves aside as morally superior<br \/>\nto other Americans have a LOT of explaining to do.&nbsp; If they do not like<br \/>\nthe poll, put the issue to rest by having another with bigger samples<br \/>\nand more differentiation.<\/p>\n<p>I make a prediction: If it is repeated on a bigger scale, the PEW<br \/>\npoll&#8217;s findings will be confirmed.&nbsp; <\/p>\n<p>I will make another prediction.&nbsp;<br \/>\nThe more legalistic and literal the interpretation of their scripture,<br \/>\nthe stronger the correlation will be.&nbsp; This is because literalism is a<br \/>\nmatter of mind and will, not of the heart. &nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Spirit cannot be served by mind and will alone: but Sauron can.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I was replying in the comments section to some arguments about my last post on the PEW poll and disproportionate LDS involvement in torture, but I ended up in territory that I decided merited a post of its own. For years many Christians have accused Pagans of not having a firm foundation for ethical behavior.&nbsp;&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[111,108],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-241","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-current-events","category-spirituality"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v23.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Spiritual Implications of the Torture Issue - A Pagan&#039;s Blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/2009\/05\/spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Spiritual Implications of the Torture Issue - A Pagan&#039;s Blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I was replying in the comments section to some arguments about my last post on the PEW poll and disproportionate LDS involvement in torture, but I ended up in territory that I decided merited a post of its own. For years many Christians have accused Pagans of not having a firm foundation for ethical behavior.&nbsp;&hellip;\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/2009\/05\/spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"A Pagan&#039;s Blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-05-02T12:50:13+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Gus diZerega\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Spiritual Implications of the Torture Issue - A Pagan&#039;s Blog","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/2009\/05\/spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Spiritual Implications of the Torture Issue - A Pagan&#039;s Blog","og_description":"I was replying in the comments section to some arguments about my last post on the PEW poll and disproportionate LDS involvement in torture, but I ended up in territory that I decided merited a post of its own. For years many Christians have accused Pagans of not having a firm foundation for ethical behavior.&nbsp;&hellip;","og_url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/2009\/05\/spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue.html","og_site_name":"A Pagan&#039;s Blog","article_published_time":"2009-05-02T12:50:13+00:00","author":"Gus diZerega","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/2009\/05\/spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue.html","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/2009\/05\/spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue.html","name":"Spiritual Implications of the Torture Issue - A Pagan&#039;s Blog","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/#website"},"datePublished":"2009-05-02T12:50:13+00:00","dateModified":"2009-05-02T12:50:13+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/#\/schema\/person\/d94ab0155d2780a0526af373b5c543f2"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/2009\/05\/spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/2009\/05\/spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/2009\/05\/spiritual-implications-of-the-torture-issue.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Spiritual Implications of the Torture Issue"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/","name":"A Pagan&#039;s Blog","description":"Beliefnet Voices - Gus diZerega","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/#\/schema\/person\/d94ab0155d2780a0526af373b5c543f2","name":"Gus diZerega","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/4f6\/4f6b5a87d91376eaf8d126df301ab8cdx96.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/wp-content\/wphb-cache\/gravatar\/4f6\/4f6b5a87d91376eaf8d126df301ab8cdx96.jpg","caption":"Gus diZerega"},"url":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/author\/gdizerega"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/241","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/9"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=241"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/241\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=241"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=241"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.beliefnet.com\/columnists\/apagansblog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=241"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}