Virtual Talmud

Virtual Talmud


Farrakhan, Obama and Jewish Doubts

The attempt to depict Barack Obama as a Muslim and the response of the Jewish community are depressing on a number of levels. First off, even if he was a Muslim, since when does that disqualify someone from office? Have I missed something here? Why on earth has the reaction of the American Jewish community been, “no, no he is not a Muslim?” Instead we should judge people by their words and actions, not on racial and religious biases.
That said, there are a few things about Obama that still concern me. (Let me be clear, there are a number of things that concern me about all the candidates.) When it comes to Israel and foreign policy issues I am just not yet sold on Barack. My biggest problem is not his lack of experience, it’s those that he surrounds himself with who have experience. Two of his main foreign policy advisors are Samantha Powers and Zbigniew Brzezinski. Neither of these two figures could be said to be favorable towards Israel’s interests in the Middle East. One could argue that both are actually hostile to Israel. It’s not that I think Obama is not pro-Israel. Whether in his heart of hearts he truly loves Israel is a question that does not move me. Every president in the last thirty years–even the worst of them like Jimmy Carter–acted as friends towards the Jewish state and there is no reason to believe the same would not hold true of an Obama administration. What worries me is that I am just not sure if he–or those who he’s surrounded by–really understands the general threat of terrorism and radical elements of Islam that threaten Israel, American and the free world in general.


Finally, there is the issue of Obama and Farrakhan. The other week, Farrakhan–a notorious anti-Semite–endorsed Obama sending chills down the spines of many Jewish observers. Let me be clear again–it would be absurd to accuse Obama of even the faintest sentiment of anti-Semitism because some anti-Semite might think highly of him. Likewise, I would go further, it is absurd that many in the Jewish world feel that his admiration for his pastor–who is friends with Farrakhan–makes him guilty by association. God knows how many rabbis or friends every Jewish person has who might in some way be connected to someone who spews hatred against gentiles or Arabs. If one looked into every statement made by every rabbi that Joe Lieberman was close to I am certain they could drudge up some unseemly material. Likewise, do we gang up on Christian politicians who have ministers that believe that all Jews will be going to hell if they don’t accept Jesus? That said, what we do expect from our politicians and those who represent us is a clear denunciation of those views expressed by those whom they might have ties to. All Obama needs to do is get out in front of the issue and make it clear that in this particular case he does not stand for the type of rhetoric endorsed by his pastor. Barack, “I know you can,” denounce such rhetoric the question is why haven’t you? Barack, we are still waiting.



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Rick Abrams

posted February 29, 2008 at 5:14 pm


Rabbi Stern’s Comments are the epitomy of reasonableness.



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Kenn

posted February 29, 2008 at 5:39 pm


I think the last thing we need is someone who is Pro-Israel or Pro-Arab for that matter. What we need is someone who realizes that “God” did not carve up land and give it to sects of people, but rather many ages ago “PEOPLE” used the name of God to justify their ruthless actions and today on “both” sides that is still happening.
The Jewish people used “God” as a way to commit mass genocide and take over the land they say was bequethed to them by “God” and that “God” commanded them to do so. Common sense should tell you either “men” have made this up, or this is an evil “God” who is dangerous to the very existence of the universe at large.
Next you have the Arabs who claim that “God” commanded them to purge the earth of this evilness and take back what was originally thiers. Once again, a cynical “God” who is either evil, or “men” whom have used “God” as a way to justify thier misdeeds.
No matter which side you take, you are wrong. What you really are saying is that you support genocide, terrorism, mayhem and murder. Not to mention oppression and straving of other human beings. You are not supporting “God” rather you are supporting a warped logic.
Yes, it doesn’t matter if you are Pro-Israeli or Pro- Arab, you are supporting the very definition of “Terrorism” in it’s purest form that has existed since the establishment of what we call civilization.
We need a leader who is Neutral to both causes and does not believe in either side or support either side, but rather is committed to establishing a peaceful co-existence for all of humanity. We need a leader who is willing to confront the very root of the issues, point out the fallacies of both religious beliefs and use logic and the inconsistencies of those relgious beliefs to systematically take away the warped since of power both sides have in adherence to such twisted sense of logic.
Barack Obama is in a position do so, given his exposure to both religions (and perhaps other religions) however, I am not so sure he is up to the challenge. It is an immense order that at least in the beginning will make him quite unpopular with masses of people. Whether or not he is up for the challenge remains to be seen, but we will not know during his bid for office. Why? Because surely, due to people precognitions regarding such matters, he would never be elected.
Perhaps this is why he is quiet on such matters.



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Scott R.

posted February 29, 2008 at 6:10 pm


This is a forum for Jews, not Jew-haters.
I will be requesting that your hateful comments (and you) be deleted.



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Iwantamotto

posted February 29, 2008 at 6:14 pm


I’m confused. Where did Kenn say he hated Jews? The point of the post is that certain topics are very complex and he thinks being neutral is the only way to win, since both sides get mad if you take any side.



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Kenn

posted February 29, 2008 at 6:28 pm


Scott R. my post was intended for people such as yourself. Believe it or not there are many Jewish people who tend to agree with me on such matters. No, they are not yet the majority. But their numbers are growing. On the Arab side, (which has now become more a Muslim Identity) there are some whom agree as well and those numbers are growing.
Unfortunately, a stance such as yours is still the the stance of most people. I don’t hate Jewish people or Arab people, Judaism or Isalm or Christianity for that matter. But, I am not afraid to point out the reckless logic that all sides keep snowballing into such critical issues.
I did say it is in the best interest of humanity not to takes sides and that is the very trap most people fall into, including the majority of our political leaders. Most usually this is for selfish reasons, mainly to protect thier own interest.



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Kenn

posted February 29, 2008 at 6:56 pm


Just a worthy note, Scott R. if you read the old testament, you will find as well (along with other Jewish scriptures not in the Christian Bible) there are many Prophets who took the stance that “God” did not command genocide or approve of such actions or land grabbing. There are prophets who pointed out that this was “Mens” perverions. Have you ever considered why so many prophets were unpopular among the ancient Jewish people and why their lives were constantly under threat?
The same goes with Muslims today. There are certain sects in Islam who promote dialogue and peaceful co-existence with Jewish and Christian sects. Why? Because in the Koran there are scriptures that command this along with other scriptures that command just the opposite. Those very Muslims who promote such thinking though are under constant threat in the Muslim community. They are terrorized just as many of the ancient Jewish prophets were.
What we need to realize is that Ancient scriptures are the viewpoints of “Human Beings” not direct commandments from “God”. We need to begin questioning both the actions and viewpoints, and determine which ones are “healthy” for the co-existence of humanity, and which ones are impediments to that objective.
However, we do just the opposite. We take sides that are consistence with our own belief structures, in order to justify our own Religious “brand”. We do not respect one another, or for that matter even ourselves when in comes to these issues. We lack value for life in general and for all things that encompasses the existence of life. We spend more time and resources on preparing and planning for war, terrorism, mayhem, destruction and the accumalation of assests than we do anything else? Yet, has this solved any of these problems?
No, it has not. And it won’t. We won’t ever solve these problems without examing the very roots of these issues and addressing the fallacies associated with them. Until we recognize the simple fact the ancient scriptures, really are viewpoints of “humans” not infalliable words from “God” we will not get anywhere.



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Windbender

posted February 29, 2008 at 7:20 pm


“All Obama needs to do is get out in front of the issue and make it clear…”
If, at this point, anyone is unclear about where Obama stands with respect to the hateful and paranoid rantings of Louis Farrakhan, the rhetoric of the religious reich or the musings of Muslim haters, they haven’t been listening.
Much like the mentality that accuses Jews of genocide for protecting their own homeland – absent a complete lack of real information -, it takes a willful disregard for the facts to espouse such a notion.



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Kenn

posted February 29, 2008 at 8:39 pm


Windbender, certain sects of the Jewish people may not be commiting genocide as we speak, but they still incite terrorism just as the Muslims do today. There are certain Sects of Jewish people, particularly in the Government and among the settlers in the West Bank who would prefer to see the Palestinian people systematically decimated.
Just as there are many Arabs and Muslims who live to wipe the Jewish people from the earth and constantly terrorize villagers in Israel with Rocket attacks and suicide bombs.
If you have studied Theology(from an unbiased perspective that is) you will find that “BOTH” Muslims and Judaic followers both committed mass genocide in their attempts to lay claim to the very land they both call the “HOLY LAND” in ancient times. Many Christians today, just as in Ancient times center themselves right in the middle of the conflict and egg is on, when they should be trying to bring the two together into a peaceful coexsitence.
The old testament itself in the Christian Bible is full of accounts where “ALL LIVING THINGS” were wiped from the land starting shortly after the band of mercenaries who later became known as the Jewish people left Egypt. This includes “MEN, WOMEN, CHILDREN, EVEN ANIMALS.” This is not an accusation. This is the pure definition of Genocide, often accounted for in Judaic and Christian scriptures. When you extinguish a group of people and replace them with your group of people for the further advancement of your ideology our cause.
On the other hand, when the Muslims decided to spread Islam, they did the exact same thing. Submit to Islam or be slaughtered was the motto. Once again, this is genocide with the attempt to establish a one world religion and culture.
The fact is, nobody has a “HOMELAND”. We live on this earth for a short period and then pass. However, we choose to preoccupy our time here with trival issues that make each generation mroe miserable than the previous.
Perhaps if the Native Americans started a war here in the United States to protect thier homeland, maybe then we will become to understand the fallacy of our thinking as it applies to the Middle East, Israel and the Arabs. Perhaps if then another group suddenly popped up and claim their ancestors were here before the Native Americans (and provided ancient documents such as religious scriptures to support thier claims) and began a war with both us and the Native Americans, we really could begin to understand the fallacies of our thinking.



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Elaine

posted February 29, 2008 at 10:58 pm


Eell, of all the rhetoric in this article, I object to Jimmy Carter being labeled as the worst president. Actually, he was quite a good president. His timing as president was bad not his actions. The worst president we have ever had in this country is still in office.



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Windbender

posted March 1, 2008 at 8:15 am


“…the Christian Bible is full of accounts where “ALL LIVING THINGS” were wiped from the land…”
Sorry, friend. When you suggested that Jews use G-d as an excuse “commit mass genocide and take over land”, I failed to recognize that you were recounting speaking in terms of Bible Stories.
As it is now clear to me that you are informed enough to recognize the State of Israel (rather than the Biblical “nation”) came into being in 1948 with her recognition by the UN and it’s Member Nations around the globe, I have to ask what place theology has in any serious effort to resolve the serious issues of security and human rights in the region?
Just my view, but it seems that throughout both ancient and modern times, religious opposition to the very existence of Jews has been among their greater obstacles. That they are point to today and accused of being a barrier to peace in the region as a function of their religious beliefs would seem only to perpetuate that same self-serving notion.



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Windbender

posted March 1, 2008 at 10:18 am


“I think the last thing we need is someone who is Pro-Israel or Pro-Arab for that matter.”
Entirely reasonable.
When was the last time you saw an Israeli murder an Olympian, throw a man in a wheelchair into the sea, hijack a flight, strap explosives to an airliner and blow it to pieces, fly one into a public building, turn automatic weapons fire into a crowd at ticket counter, or equip a woman to murder children with an explosive vest? Oppostition to those kinds of atrocities is not a position that stems from being “Pro-Israeli, or even Pro-Arab.” It comes from recognizing the motivation and goals to which such actions are tied by their perpetrators. We do need people – including leaders – who are capable of recognizing the difference and I, for one, believe Mr. Obama is just such a person.



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M.Aiani

posted March 1, 2008 at 12:15 pm


Why would someone with so little experience want to run? Power only. He should have enough sense to wait, until he had more under his belt. I don’t belive he is sincere. I don’t think he knows very much and is all fluff. Look deeper than the “feel goods.” We need substance, not foofoo fluff.



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Dave

posted March 1, 2008 at 11:23 pm


1/ Actually if you read the Bible there is a whole book (Joshua) which is all about what you would call ‘land-grabbing’. Of course someone who has never read the Bible but just uses the word ‘Bible’ rhetorically would not know this.
2/ You can either be pro-Israel, anti-Israel, or neutral-Israel. The overwhelming majority of Jews are the former. Of course, both now and in 1948 there were Jews who were anti-Israel, but this does not signify growth.
3/ Everyone takes sides on issues they care about. (You could even argue determined neutrality is a side in itself).



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Windbender

posted March 2, 2008 at 12:55 pm


“I don’t belive he is sincere. I don’t think he knows very much and is all fluff.”
Meaning what – that he isn’t really interesting in being President, or that he doesn’t sincerely intend to help?
He has been a State Legislator, as well as a Senator, earned a BA from Columbia University befor attending Harvard where he was elected editor of the Harvard Law Review and was on the Faculty of Chicago University where he lectured on Constitutional Law (can you imagine the current leader of the free world that off?). You and I should know so little.



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BarryB

posted March 2, 2008 at 3:24 pm


Kenn –
I agree with almost all of what you say. But when you refer to “the band of mercenaries who later became known as the Jewish people,” you lose me. Completely. And, exactly where in the Hebrew Scriptures does it say that the Jewish people committed genocide?
We need a conciliatory, not divisive approach to politics and to the problems of Israel and her neighbors. For the most part, you have urged just that — so, please, leave out the judgmental and highly questionable b.s. such as I have quoted. Please?
As Windbender says, we have to leave theology out of the discussion — *everyone’s* theology. One man’s Bible is another man’s book, with a small “b”. We need to address the present, with an eye to the future; while we cannot ignore the past, we must not chain ourselves to it.



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Kenn

posted March 3, 2008 at 2:59 am


Barry B..
When I refer to “mecenaries” who eventually became know as the Jewish people, I am refering to what is commonly (but in error) referred to as “slaves” the Egyptians were using to build their empire. The biblical accounts refer to them as slaves quite often, however historians and Anthropologists have found ample evidence to the contrary.
The Egyptians often employed the use of “freelancers” for both construction and the security of Egypt (much like they still do today by the way) not slaves. These mecenaries migrated from the areas surrounding Egypt for the money both in areas of construction and engineering, as well as military occupations. But they were not Egyptians, or loyal to Egypt. They were villagers from the tribes in the surrounding areas.
Very much like today, if you travel to Southeast Asia, say Singapore. You will find the Indians from India, Indonesians from Indonesia and other nationalities who migrate temporarily to work in Singapore for better economic opportunities. But some of those workers, due to lack of education may percieve it as a form of slavery and even some outsiders may view it as such. The fact is though, they are there voluntarily, not by force.
So, when this histrocal figure Moses left Egypt, he left with groups of people just like him, freelance construction workers, engineers and military people, along with their families from various tribes. Moses himself is evident to being a military tactician (mercenary) and was well versed in military strategy, knew the areas quite well to the East of Egypt because he was from a tribe there, if I recall correctly, the tribe of Levi. His intention when he left Egypt was to start his own Empire, not because he wanted to be free from slavery (as these people were not slaves), but because economically Egypt was in decline.
The Pharoah at the time did not chase after Moses and his followers because he wanted his slaves back, but because on second thought he realized that Moses was a security threat. Moses eluded the Pharoah deploying Military strategy, rather than supernatural powers he invoked from a God. However, Moses, like many strategic leaders leveraged Religious thought to keep his followers intact and dependent upon him to accomplish his objectives. His objectives was to reach the “Promised Land”. Lands that economically offered much more than Egypt did at the time.
Now Moses never did reach the “Promised Land” with his followers in his lifetime. He died without setting foot there, but he did make sure his followers and next in command carried on his Ideology and objectives.
The promised lands were occupied by other groups of people. What took place when this band of mercenaries (who eventually became know as the “Israelites or Jewish People”) reached those lands was take them over by force and they did so in a shocking manner. They murdered every living thing in the villages and cities in order to “MAKE THE LANDS PURE”.
Now biblical scriptures do not use the term Genocide, but THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION of Genocide. This is no different than was happened when settlers from European nations descended upon the the continents in our own present day hemisphere. We wiped out other cultures and peoples whom we termed as “Pagan” and we often did it in the name of “JESUS”. Or what the Nazi’s tried to accomplish with their Idealogy, which is still very religious like in nature, but decline to recognize a higher power other than themselves.
Keep in mind, there is one consistent theme here that still echoes today. Moses claimed that these lands were “Promised to him by God”. Before they ever set foot on these lands, they claimed them as their own.
What we have here is a Military leader that used “God” or “Religion” to accomplish particular objectives and to justify their race as Superior (God’s chosen People). This is the oldest form of psychological manipulation that is still being deployed today to get masses of people to go along with an objective, despite the atrocities involved.
Many Jewish people today still believe “ALL that land was PROMISED TO THEM BY GOD AND IS RIGHTFULLY THEIRS”. And Christians have helped them advance that cause. The Israeli government still intends to push settlement into the West Bank and deploy bombs, troops and terror into what is referred to as the Palenstinian territories. We still have Christian Evangelists in this country begging for donations to send Jewish People back to “THIER HOME LAND.” We Perpetuate the cause and enflame the situation.
On the other hand, many Muslims have the same Problem. The Prophet Muhammed started what eventually became know as the Islamic religion. The Prophet Muhammed’s lineage can be tied to Adnan who in turn is said to have been a descendant of Ishmael, a son of a Patriarch named Abraham. Now once again, The Patriach Abraham is important to Israelites as well, as Abraham has two sons, Ishmael and Issac. Now Abrahams time dates back to Mesopatamia, before the time of Moses keep in mind.
Abraham struggled with the thing we still struggle with today, in that he did not find the religions of his time as having an answer to the ultimate question “What is my purpose?” Evenutally Abraham came to believe there was ONE God who controlled the entire universe and all other GODS and thus Abraham pledged his Allegiance to that God.
For this, it is said that Abraham was promised by this God his descendants would be entitled to all the lands of “Cannan.”
AS the story goes, Abraham had two sons, born 14 years apart Issac and Ishmael. However Issac was by his wife Sarah, but Ishmael was by his servant Hagar who was Egyptian. As you can imagine, this created a great rift within the family. Sarah was offended by the presence of Hagar and Ishmael, but Abraham loved his Son Ishmael and was wounded by the fact both had to be banished from the household due to Sarah’s wishes.
As the story goes however God promised Abraham, his seed would desecend from Issac and become the nation of Israel, but also a nation would descend from Ishmael and that God would be with them BOTH.
It cannot be said that Ishmael hated Isaac. But after 14 years as an only child, Isaac’s arrival fundamentally changed Ishmael’s relationship with his father Abraham. Afterward, Ishmael felt envy and rivalry toward his half-brother, feelings that tribally have survived down through the centuries and which affect the politics of the Middle East today.
Further family complications were ahead as well. Isaac in turn had two sons, Jacob and Esau, twins by his wife Rebekah. Even before they were born, “the children struggled together within her” (Genesis 25:22). God explained: “Two nations are in your womb, two peoples shall be separated from your body; one people shall be stronger than the other, and the older shall serve the younger” (verse 23). Both brothers were to father great nations, a blessing from God to Abraham’s grandsons.
Normally the firstborn would receive the birthright, but here it was to be different. The Bible records that Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of lentil stew. Sometime later, Jacob tricked his father into giving him the birthright blessing (chapter 27). For this, “Esau hated Jacob” (verse 41).
Again, the consequences of this are with us to this day.The descendants of Esau (also called Edom, Genesis 25:30) intermarried with Ishmael’s descendants, their bitterness and resentment against Jacob’s descendants intensifying through the centuries. Esau’s grandson Amalek (Genesis 36:12) was the father of the Amalekites, who became bitter foes of the descendants of Jacob, the 12 tribes of Israel. A prophecy about Amalek foretold endless war between them “from generation to generation” (Exodus 17:16). Some scholars believe that many of today’s Palestinians are largely the descendants of the Amalekites.
Now here is where the MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS AND JEWISH followers differ on religion itself:
“Deuteronomy 18:18 says that God would raise up a prophet like Moses from among their brothers. The Israelites (the Jews) and the Ishmaelites (Arabs) were brothers. The prophecy states that ‘I will put my words in his mouth and he will tell them everything I command him.’
The Muslims say that it is Muhammed, the Christians say it was Jesus, and the Jewish recognize niether Prophet or Messiah.
So now we enter Islam into the picture. It has been asserted by Islam that Mohammad is the chosen prophet and speaks the “ONE” truth of religion. They have had many Military and Religious leaders, who lay claim to the same lands because they say “GOD” Promised it to them through their Lineage to Abraham. And just the same they have committed many genocidal acts to lay claims to those lands throughout history.
Today many Muslims still buy into this and wage (Jihad) through the use of violence and war in an effort to purge all non-Muslims from what they call the Holy Land.
So in summary what we have is the following:
1. Historical accounts that were passed down orally for generations before they were ever written down.
2. Once they were written down, when the documents (or scriptures) when examined closely are found to have many inconsistencies in their recollections including who the actual lineages even were.
3. All accounts say that “GOD” promised the lands in Dispute “TO THE DESCENDANTS” of Abraham.
4. Both the Jews and most Arabs, as well as the Palestinians are descendents of the Patriarch Arbraham.
5. The promised land is far to small to Hold all the descendents of Abraham.
6. The true descendents of Abraham or the “promised Lands” in questions have nothing to do with Present day Religion, but rather is is a family conflict. There are millions of Christians who cannot draw their lineage to Abraham. There are millions of Muslims whom as well cannot draw their lineage to Abraham.
7. However, it is important to note that both Religions, along with the Judaic religions see the land as the “Holy Land.” AND EACH FOR GOOD REASON. The ROOTS of THIER RELIGION ARE TRACED TO THERE.
Solutions:
1. All sides must come to the agreement that traditions passed down orally for generations have a very big degree of inaccuracy.
2. If there is inaccuracy (as supported by other acadmic disiplines and even the religious scriptures themselve) then perhaps the truth is this land was never “PROMISED” to anyone by a “GOD”, but rather claimed by “MEN” for thier own selfish purposes.
3. All sides must realize they are “FAMILY” and your don’t “MURDER” your family members. You love and support your “FAMILY” as commanded by “THE RELIGIONS” of all sides.
4. Demand that all sides cease Military operations immediately and share the “lands” as one nation under “Abraham” “Not Israel of Palestine” or otherwise the following will occur immediately:
4. The Disbanding both of the State of ISRAEL and the territory of Palestine completely, and have the entire Area Under the Control Of The UN or another third party. Establish the Territory as a Pilgrimage site ONLY for all “ABRAHAMIC DESCENDENTS” or any religion what wants to visit. The land iself will be barren. No Temples, No churches, No Monuments. Nothing. Just a barren land where you can go and visit. And, if you can’t visit in peace, all visitation will be cut off as well. Period.
It this not what we do with our children when they can’t get along?



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eastcoastlady

posted March 3, 2008 at 12:43 pm


Kenn:
You cannot possibly be serious.



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zena

posted March 3, 2008 at 1:25 pm


Obama would be a disaster for Israel. At the AIPAC convention last year, I heard Obama talk about “cycle of violence” in reference to the Israel. As we all know, “cycle of violence” is a term used to disparage Israel’s attempts to stop the Palestinians’ constant warfare and terrorism directed at Israeli citizens. The term implies that Israel’s justified self defense is as bad as the Palestinians’ constant terrorist acts against innocent Israeli men, women and children. Obama also told his Jewish AIPAC audience that the only problem was that they were lacking “hope” in the prospects for peace with the Palestinians. The opposite is of course true. “Hopeful” Jews have made one foolish concession after another to terrorists bent on Israel’s destruction. These concessions have led to more terrorism by the Palestinians as they use their newly-granted territory as launching pads for rockets and other terrorist acts, and have considerably weakened Israel’s prospects for survival. Obama either has no understanding of reality – or deliberately favors policies that will further endanger Israel. Obama’s refusal to reject Farakhan’s endorsement altogether (not just Farakhan’s anti-semitic views) also does not bode well.



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baruch baruch-chaim

posted March 3, 2008 at 1:26 pm


eastcoastlady, I certainly “get” your reaction to Kenn. But nobody gives that long a statement in a forum where most posts are no more than 1/20th the length of his post without being serious. If he had not been consumed with his sense of rightness, he would have realized that very few would read a post that long. So communication was apparently not what he was after. Instead, it seems likely that he intended to instruct us and thought we were at least somewhat obligated to allow ourselves to be instructed by him.



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Steak N' Fries

posted March 3, 2008 at 7:56 pm


Americans are under no obligation to “love Israel.” That an entire race of people (Jews) have been brainwashed to “love” a piece of land is incredible to me. God is bigger than a piece of land, but Jewish people gave up on God when they chose the Talmud.
Jews are brainwashed from a very early age to support Israeli militarism no matter what. And when people contest them, they are called “anti-semitic.”



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Dave

posted March 3, 2008 at 11:20 pm


If you don’t like the Talmud what are you doing on ‘Virtual Talmud’?



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Sophia

posted March 4, 2008 at 12:33 pm


You can’t be for Muslims and for Jews. There has been a competitive edge since Ishmael and Issac. One is chosen and one is under the law. One is from obedience and the other is from disobedience. God blessed both peoples in different ways. There is more than a land issue. There is a religious domination issue. To be for Israel one must know the facts. I feel Obama is not for Israel.



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Tom Baker

posted March 4, 2008 at 7:10 pm


“Farrakhan–a notorious anti-Semite”
Really, says who? Proven by who? If you live in sound-bite world then you deserve to be ridiculed and pilliored from every quarter.
Your credibility rating for today: 0
Thus the rest of your article smells like horsemanure by association, please try harder.



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Sharon

posted March 7, 2008 at 9:30 am


I am beginning to have extreme concerns about Obama on my fronts but his arabic associations and leanings are very concerning. I have heard a lot of his fund raising has actually come from non American arabs and further that these people other than Farrakan have been actually sought or allowed to provide him funding even in personal involvements not having to do with the campaign. An assumption that all Christian predidents will support Israel is based on predidents who were evangelicals. Evangelicals strongly support Israel’s safety and well being but Obama belons to a church that is one of the denominations that are mostly just socially oriented and his excludes whites and focuses all its efforts toward the advancement of blacks. Thus they are willling to partner with the black muslims in order to get advancement for blacks and are as a church unconcerned with other races and social groups.I originally thought that his middle name being husein was a joke but since it is really his name someone close to him must have had invovement with the muslim/arabs to name their child like this.A look at his voting record shows a tendency to absent himself from most issues and only vote primarily on black issues. Ifear he has felt his views needed to be hidden due to his future polical aspirations. He is standing up now saying he was always against the war which meanseven in the shadow of 9/11 he was not willing to go to war with any arab country regardless of their associations with terrorism or danger toward Israel or in fact even the US. It is all these things combined with Farrakan that make me feel that neither jews nor evangelicals that treasure the safety of Israel and look forward to the fulfillment of Biblical prophesy of Israel should any longer support Obama



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JENNIFER MORGAN

posted March 9, 2008 at 6:16 pm


To the comment by Tom Baker – Farrakhan is a proclaimed white hating, Jew hating man! Where have you been?? Try Googling him. There are posts by the Washington Post, meetings with Martin Bashir on ABC -
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=2938016&page=1
Here, Farrakhan openly refers to Judaism as a “gutter belief” and whites are “devils” -
Mr. Baker, before you post, why not research it first? Doubt something? Look it up. Farrakhan has been known to hate whites and Jews for 30 years now…MY LIFETIME…Get a grip, pal! Learn, research!



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Jen

posted June 4, 2008 at 6:41 pm


I hope we always have a president here in the U.S. that fears the Lord enough to defend His chosen people (which , are the Jews) and will always come to aid Israel……….Kenn, what about the fact that you don’t see Israel terrorizing other countries or bothering anyone else, but you do see the psychotic Muslims(whther they’re from Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and so on…….. going around blowing up everything and terrorizing anyone who disagrees with what they stand for? They are jealous of Israel and I don’t believe we have a God that would cause such conflict, as in promising the same land or nation to different men. I believe as the Bible states (you dont know what was orally stated before the Bible was printed, either)but God did promise the nation to the Jews and from the beginning of time Satan (whether through false doctrines or teachings, religions, and so on) has tried to prevent God’s plan and that is – after the second coming of Christ , to set up His kingdom , here on Earth in Israel…. Do you actually think God would want the hell-bound Muslims to take over a land that He will be setting up his new kingdom on? I don’t think so……



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