Virtual Talmud

Virtual Talmud


Go Bother Someone Else

Ah… summer in New York City: Central Park concerts, café life, sweaty subways, and who can forget those smiley young boys and girls passing out Jews for Jesus pamphlets. Every year they come with more zeal and more ambition, peddling their product and hoping that someone with a kippah will say yes, now that I have read this beautiful media-savvy pamphlet, I see the light and have accepted Jesus into my life.

Most Jews would like to ban Jews for Jesus outright. Understandably so, they feel threatened by a group trying to make Jews believe something that they know is a social and theological impossibility (On the Jewish understanding of Jesus see Judaism’s view of Jesus, and Irving Greenberg’s more welcoming ideas).

Irrespective of whether or not Jesus was a Jew, a failed messiah, or a prophet, the bottom line remains: it is both socially and theologically impossible to be a Jew and accept Jesus as the messiah.

When I was younger, I used to clench up every time I passed by a Jews for Jesus salesman/woman. But then I realized that they are no different than half of the things sold on Manhattan streets everyday: bad merchandise.

But one cannot, nor should they, try to ban bad merchandise just because its bad merchandise. Lots of things get sold everyday on the street. If there is one thing Jews know it’s that they don’t accept Jesus. The notion that New York Jews en masse are going to be duped by these 20-year-old bright-eyed kids from Middle America is simply preposterous.

Jews for Jesus salespeople are nothing more than used-car salesmen who truly believe the stories they heard from the previous owner. But that does not nor should it make it illegal for them to sell cars.

Personally, I don’t listen to used-car salespeople, and I would tell anyone I know not to give them the time of day. But if it gives a few young folks a chance to get a free trip to the Big City, then good for them. I hope you all are having a good time running around the city telling lies. Just do me a favor when I tell you I am not interested: Leave me alone.



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David Madden

posted August 30, 2006 at 11:01 pm


Rabbi Stern. I own a used car dealership, that was passed down to me from two generations of honest hard working Jewish Men, my grandfather inlaw, and my father inlaw. We have, and are proud of, an outstanding reputation for, integrity, and service. I am a pious Jew myself. I am a member of one of your esteemed colleagues congregations. I find it very upsetting to read (of all things) an old cliche that belittles used car salesman, in a forum where I would other wise expect to read words of wisdom, and coming from a scholar no less. I could take up a lot of blog space telling you about all the mistruths I have heard coming from the mouths of Rabbi’s, but I don’t go around using dirogatory statements about the practice. Please use better judgement when writing your blog statements. Jewish teachers should be among the first to put these kinds of cliche to sleep. Children and students learn what we teach them. Let’s not teach them to hate, at any level. David E Madden President Samson Motors Inc.



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moonbatlulu

posted August 31, 2006 at 4:53 am


I wish to extend my sympathy to the Jewish people who are afflicted by Christians who call themselves “Jews for Jesus”… as a Christian I find them frauds …. most of the ones I know may have been born to Jewish families, but they did not follow the Jewish religion or practice it. These people know very little about Judaism. I have never met a Jew for Jesus that knew even a little a bit about being Jewish …



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Wanda Lauzon

posted August 31, 2006 at 7:49 am


Being Jewish is so much more than the Standards of the Conservative or Orthodox Movements. So, have you tried to tell reformed or secular America and Israel that they don t have the right stuff to qualify as Jews? Why not? Your whole theme is that a perfect belief system is key to being Jewish and by the way, are you absolutely certain you have one of those? I am pretty weary of the self righteous indignation surrounding this whole issue. People looking for a religious experience (from either side of the street) will never be satisfied by a relationship with God, because they want to be God. People looking for a religious experience will never be content as an obedient servant fulfilling the mitzvoth but that is our individual created purpose. I tell everyone who comes to my door to share their heart with me, Thank you. Your conviction is so inspiring and keep studying Torah. You will never regret it. I tell them the truth. They feel good. I feel good because I just fulfilled a mitzvah. They move along and I have confidence that God will turn toward anyone who studies when they want to know Him not just a religion. How is getting mad and drawing hard lines contributing to a perfected world anyhow? God doesn t ask us to judge the world, he asks us to bring Torah into it.



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Wanda Lauzon

posted August 31, 2006 at 8:34 am


Oops, I meant Reform not reformed.



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Wanda Lauzon

posted August 31, 2006 at 8:36 am


Oops! I meant Reform not reformed.



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Wayburn

posted August 31, 2006 at 1:24 pm


Amen to David Madden. You express my thoughts far more eloquently than I can. I’m neither Jewish nor actively Christian, and I hope that Rabbi Stern is simply trying to provoke thought and is not establishing himself as humanity’s judge. What a pity that would be.



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Pastor

posted August 31, 2006 at 3:41 pm


Many orthodox Christian’s (I’m LCMS)have a problem with Jews for Jesus and their theology. I would put their theology at the fringe of Christian orthodoxy if even Christian. Rabbi Grossman is correct in her understanding of their apocalyptic vision and need for a mass conversion. Their apocalyptic view has been rejected by the majority of orthodox Christians. Pax, Pastor



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TIMOTHY KRIETE

posted August 31, 2006 at 6:35 pm


JESUS CHRIST IS A JEWISH RABBI, WHY IS SOO HARD FOR “JEWS” TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL WHOM CHOOSES OUR LEADERS WITHOUT ADVICE FROM ANYONE ESPECIALLY KNOW IT ALL “JEWS” WHOM PERHAPS GOD DOES NOT SEE A HUMBLE LOVING HEART IN THEM? IF FATHER GOD CHOSE A LOWLY SHEPHERD BOY NAMED DAVID TO RULE OVER ISRAEL, WHAT ARE THE ODDS HE WOULD ALSO SEND A MESSIAH AS A LOWLY SERVANT OF GOD ALSO??? JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD, GET OVER YOUR GUILT COMPLEX MY JEWISH BROTHERS AND SISTERS, JESUS FORGAVE EVERYONE ON THE CROSS, THAT INCLUDES HARD HEADED JEWS THAT CANNOT SEE THE FORREST BECAUSE THE TREE IN THEIR OWN EYES. HOW SAD AND PATHETIC. A SHEPHERD BOY NAMED DAVID TO RULED OVER THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL BECAUSE HE TRULY WANTED TO KNOW THE HEART OF GOD WHY CAN YOU MY PRECIOUS BROTHERS AND SISTERS NOT LET YOUR HEARTS BE SOFTENED? GOD HAS NEVER TRULY LIKED OR RESPONDED TO A HARD HEART, THINK OF KING SAUL FOLKS. MAY THE LORD JESUS CHRIST FORGIVE YOU AND BLESS YOU ALL. TIMOTHEUS ISRAEL JEREMIAH- BOND SERVANT OF THE HOLY TRINITY IN HEAVEN NOW AND FOREVER MORE.



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Alicia

posted August 31, 2006 at 8:47 pm


As a Christian who has received those annoying pamphlets from “Jews for Jesus” on several occasions, I have to say that I’ve never believed for a second that the founders of this sect or cult were Jews. And even if they were, they are now Christians, so are selling themselves under false pretenses.



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Richard

posted August 31, 2006 at 9:45 pm


I’m Episcopalian, and am frequently offended by evangelical & fundamentalists of various stripes who believe my religion isn’t good enough for them, and have had on occasion to be very firm to get them to leave me alone. It is a poor advertisement for any religion when people hide from your followers…..



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Richard B. Cook

posted August 31, 2006 at 11:29 pm


Dear Mr. Madden, Durring my thirty year driving carrire and a life time as a car buff, because of principled businessmen such as yourself I never found it necessary to purchase a brand new automobile. Thank you for bringing the higest of ethecial standards to the business community. Richard Cook



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Richard B. Cook

posted September 1, 2006 at 12:20 am


Ladies, Gentelmen and Rabbis, I am a 58yo practicing Jew. I have been common law married to my Southern Baptist wife for twenty years. We are common law married thanx to the laws of the state of Texas. The clergy fromeither of our faith traditions recognises our marriage. I am a confrontational jewish yankee. I am married to a sweet southern girl that I love enough to have kept my mouth shut for twenty years. I am very angry at G*D over a severe objection to Deut 7; 7-11. My shicksa wife helped me prepair and serve a post Bar Mitzvah kidish lunchion to the entire congregation of my synogogeafter my sons’ Bar Mitzvaha. My wife and I have no children in common but ourfamily consists of three boys et.al. Deut.7 is wrong intermarriage does notnecessarily lead jews away from traditional practice, the flat no ofmodern Rabbis does far more damage to the house of Isreal. My son was left with a lot of very bad feelings after trying to arrange a weding to a christian woman. The jewish tradition was present in the cerimoney when a friend of his parents,both practicing jews. read the three chupa blessings. This disagrement is not over. I continue to practise Judiasm from my unkosher home. In my wifes’ church I have adopted the nicname of hardtop’ the unconertable.



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Donna Fitch

posted September 1, 2006 at 2:39 am


I have no comment on the “Jews for Jesus” issue. What I am interested in is the identity of poster, Richard B. Cook. Are you, by any chance, the Richard Cook who had a counseling practice for many years in Dallas, TX 20 years + ago. If you are, I believe I know you and also your “shicksa wife”. I believe, as your counselee, I might have had something to do with your meeting her. Also, if you are, I want to credit you with helping me to understand Jesus and my faith by reminding me that Jesus was a practicing Jew. If you are not the Richard Cook who counseled me, then please forgive this assumption, but what you have posted seems to fit the counselor I knew. I now live in Bedford, TX. I may be contacted as dlrfi2005@yahoo.com



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shelly

posted September 1, 2006 at 4:09 am


To Timothy and those who have expressed similar ideas: The Rabbi has not been judgemental. For someone who is jewish to accept Jesus as the messiah or as the son of G-d, means they are renouncing their heritage. Perhaps you need to just accept that. Jesus did not make most of these claims in his own name. It was done for him long after his death. He had a lot of wonderful ideas and thoughts – I have read the New Testament – and had a proselytyzing teacher to go with it! I believe that my Dad was right many years ago when we discussed all this and he said that Jesus was a reformer and people had trouble with that. He thought and I agree, that if Jesus came back today he would be horrified at some of the things done and said in his name. When he attempted to correct them, he would be persecuted by some of the same people who are now screaming that we should all accept him. For some of you this discussion of Messianic Jews is just a way to push on the rest of us to follow Jesus. I don’t need to convert anyone to validate who I am as a Jew. Why do you need to do that? Think that over. I am happy for you if you believe in your faith. I think it would be very nice if I was allowed to do the same. Shelly



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JAY

posted September 2, 2006 at 2:16 am


FIRST OF ALL LET ME TRY TO MAKE ONE THING PERFECTLY CLEAR.ANYONE WHO SAYS THAT IF SOMEONE BELIEVES IN HIS HEART THAT YESHUA HAMACHIACH IS THEIR LORD AND SAVIOUR AND IS NO LONGER JEWISH IS SAYING THAT THEY CAN TAKE THAT PERSONS HERITAGE AWAY FROM THEM WHICH IS TOTALLY LUDICROUS.THE IDEA OF PEOPLE SAYING THAT A JEW HAS CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY IS ALSO ABSURD.IT IS IN FACT A COMPLETION OF ONES JUDAIC BACKGROUND, AS FOLLOWING THE SON OF GOD WHO WAS A GIFT TO CREATION FROM THE CREATOR SO THAT WE COULD BE RECONCILED TO HIM AS IN AND OF OURSELVES WE CANNOT EVER BE PERFECT IN GODS EYES AS HE IS.ALL FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD AND IT IS ONLY THROUGH HIS SONS SACRIFICE AND HIS SHED BLOOD,THE BLOOD OF THE PERFECT LAMB THAT WE CAN BE TRULY BE SANCTIFIED AND WORTHY.HOW DO PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT BELIEVERS EXPLAIN ISA:53 WHICH CLEARLY STATES AND PROPHECISES THE COMING OF THE THE MESSIAH 700 YRS BEFORE IT HAPPENED? THERE ARE ALSO OVER 300 PROPHECIES IN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES THAT POINT TO ONLY ONE ENTITY AND THE ODDS OF THAT HAPPENING ARE INFINITESAMIL.YESHUA DID NOT COME TO DESTROY THE LAW,HE CAME TO FULLFILL IT.MOST JEWS THINK THAT BY GOING TO SYNAGOGUE ONCE A YEAR ON YOM KIPPUR AND FASTING 24 HOURS THAT THEIR SINS ARE FORGIVEN.YET WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT BY BELIEVING IN HIM WHO ELOHENU SENT TO US AS A GIFT HAS PAID THE PRICE FOR SINS YESTERDAY,TODAY,AND FOREVER? GOD GAVE US THE POWER TO MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS AND WHAT HIS CHOICES ARE THIS:YESHUA WAS EITHER A LORD,A LIAR OR A LUNATIC(READ MORE THAN A CARPENTER BY JOSH MCDOWELL A FORMER ATHEIST)I COULD GO ON AND ON BUT I KNOW NOTHING I SAY CAN CHANGE A PERSONS HEART,ONLY GOD CAN DO THAT. SO I WILL CONTINUE TO PRAY FOR MY NON-BELIEVER BROTHER AND SISTERS THAT ELOHENU WILL SEE FIT TO CALL THEM AND TO SOFTEN THEIR HEARTS AND TAKE THE SCALES OFF THEIR EYES. I SAY ALL THIS WITH LOVE FOR EVERYONE JAY



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Scott

posted September 2, 2006 at 5:18 am


Typing in caps doesn’t make it true – just more annoying. You have read why we (and I mean almost all Jews) say you can’t be a Jew and believe in JC – and yet you still have the nerve to tell us who we consider part of the tribe. Give me a break. This is yet anotger reason why we should never trust Christians.



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elizabeth

posted September 2, 2006 at 6:55 am


God bless you Shelly! (And all of you actually) You wrote: I am happy for you if you believe in your faith. Thank you, and God bless you. But I want to share something with you that I hope will not make you angry, because that is not my intention. I never had had any experience personally with Jews for Jesus as a group, or as individuals. But nevertheless I really disliked, for visceral and unarticulated reasons. As an adult in my 30s, I had a 3 day encounter with God during which I came to a complete and total faith in Christ. It was as if it had been inserted into me in toto, without anyone trying ti persuade me, without my ever reading the Christian New Testament. And after that, Christ – and God – were more real to me than this computer in front of me. You can call me CRAZY; faith is non-sense. But you cannot tell me that I renounced my Jewish heritage. I am not trying to convert you or anyone else! But why are you trying to put I accept that Rabbinic Judaism excommunicates me. I accept that some Jews choose to reject me, or express anger at me. But the only choice I made was to say YES to what I experienced as God. Please: feel free to call me crazy. (Noone who knows me does, whether or not they know my faith — I am a respected physician, respected academic, blah blah) But please don’t impose your view onto me, anymore than you don’t want me to impose my view onto you. No one can talk me INTO or OUT OF my faith. God only, not human ‘persuasion’ or ‘reason’ gives faith. I can share my experience, but never to convert anyone. Shelly, I know this may sound strange to you, but it actually hurts me when you say that I chose to reject my Jewish heritage. My personal experience with Jews for Jesus is that they do not tell me who I am. And they do not condemn me. They do not tell me what to believe. They only share their own experiences, if I ask them to. May God Bless us ALL and May God have mercy on us all — by the measure we use to judge others, we shall ourseves be judged by.



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Rob

posted September 2, 2006 at 9:10 am


Um, just a quick comment. I’m neither Jewish nor Christian, so I have no dog in this theological fight, but I was just wondering whether the crack on “Middle America” was necessary. Sigh… myopic pseudo-cosmopolitan provincialism strikes again.



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shelly

posted September 3, 2006 at 1:09 am


Elizabeth, For the mainstream jewish population deciding that you are a Jew for Jesus or a Messianic Jew means that you have joined an offshoot of our faith and in that sense you have rejected all the information in the talmud that says I am the one g-d and there shall be no other g-ds but me. It is said many times and in many places, so that puts you outside the main group. I do not say that to hurt you or anyone else. That is one of the tenets of our faith. If you accept JC as G-d you no longer belong to the Mainstream group. I won’t tell you that you are wrong or that you should forget it. You have to work out what’s right for you. On the other hand I would prefer for people not to tell me that JC is my Savior and I need to accept him. If you truly believe in your faith what ever that is – you don’t need to schlepp everyone in your direction. If you find that you must make those suggestions or remarks, perhaps you should evaluate why your’re doing it. I KNOW who I am. I don’t have to “convert” anyone. I can usually accept them as they are. I can’t, won’t and don’t have to put up with people who insist that I am an unfinished product and I need to add JC to my life. I was brought up Orthodox and as my husband’s career took us to various parts of the US we have belonged to Conservative shuls, Reform shuls, have worshipped in Non-denominational shuls and even occasionally an Orthodox shul. None that bowed for JC and I’m not about to start now.



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Karin

posted September 4, 2006 at 2:37 am


To those who scream (all caps) I do not even read your posts,I scroll down to the next post; I “hear” just fine. Jews for Jesus is an oxymoron; if you believe in JC, you are Christian. Period. I believe in one G-d. Period.



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Anijar

posted September 4, 2006 at 7:59 pm


I can’t believe so much anger and rejection against a man that himself never hurt anyone. Yeshua died and forgave all who persecuted him. He was a Jew, born of a Jewish woman, the first followers were Jews, he lived in Israel, etc., etc., etc. Even after thousands of years, his own brothers and sisters still angry at him. Why? Did he himself hurt you? Did he persecute you? Why do you reject him? Joseph son of Jacob was also rejected by his brothers, sold, and became a type of Messiah for his family. How long, we children of Israel will continue to reject one of our brothers? He was not a gentile, born of gentile parents. The G-d of the Torah is not someone that we humans with our limited minds can analyse and say who he is, what he can do or not do. He created the man Adam from the ground of the earth. So, if he wanted to have a human body, and come to this earth to live among us for a time, it would not be impossible for him. He made us, and he loves us. Israel is G-d’s children of promise and fulfillment of prophesy. If Yeshua came back today as it says in the Christian Bible, would you still reject him? He came and lived between his people. We don’t like to be persecuted because of our believes, so we should not say what is right or wrong about any other religion. Let G-d be the judge. If a group of Jews want to believe that a Jewish carpenter was really the Messiah, then that is their belief. Does a person stop being a jew because he/she believe in nothing? Or in Budah, etc.? So, why can’t a Jewish person believe in another Jew? Israel is a place where Christians go as tourists to visit where Yeshua lived and died. It brings money into the country. So, it is a shame that we reject him in every way, but we like the money his name brings into the country of Israel. I pray that you will stop hating one of our brothers because humans that adopted him and formed a religion in his name persecuted us through the ages. He did not do it to us, humans did. I can’t believe how the heart of men has so much evil. I went to Hebrew school, and I was persecuted together with my brothers and sister because we were poor. I do not harbor hate or angry towards those that mistreated me or my siblings. May the Lord shine upon us, may his countenance be upon us, and give us all peace.



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Scott

posted September 4, 2006 at 9:54 pm


Even after thousands of years, his own brothers and sisters still angry at him. Why? Did he himself hurt you? Did he persecute you? Why do you reject him? Because his followers raped, murdered, tortured, butchered and massacred our children, he he didn’t do $hit to stop them. Any messiah that can’t control his flock is no messiah.



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Geoff

posted September 5, 2006 at 6:16 pm


Using Scott’s logic, any bad thing ever done by a Jewish person must mean that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob doesn’t exist. Because any God who can’t control his people must not be God.



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shelly

posted September 5, 2006 at 8:57 pm


Geoff, Over the years I have come to the conclusion that I feel sorry for Jesus. I don’t think he would recognize what his followers have done to his faith in his name. I don’t know that he would appreciate it as he obviously followed his faith very strongly and was only trying to improve it in certain areas. Those areas would not have caused sinificant changes in the religion itself. Sad if you think about it that some attepted reforms led to so much agony and violence all in his name.



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Scott

posted September 5, 2006 at 10:44 pm


Geoff, We have not tried to exterminate everyone who was against us. If we did, I am quite sure G-D would strike us down. Xtians have been trying to kill us for a millenia and your god has done nothing about it. I must conclude he approves.



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Deborah

posted September 6, 2006 at 10:42 am


Never would Christians in truth and in spirit ever try to destroy the Jewish people. The Hebrews are very dear to those of Christ on his account and the Lord God of Israel’s. Christians get blamed for things, that true Christians would not do or even think if doing. I know this is true of the Jews, as well. I know this is true of the Muslim faith, too, but we do not serve the same God, that is why I do not mention them very often.



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Geoff

posted September 6, 2006 at 2:42 pm


Scott, Do you want God to wipe out and prevent all evil? “They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.” Psalm 14:3 “If You, LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand?” Psalm 130:3 Are you really sure that’s what you want?



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Geoff

posted September 6, 2006 at 2:43 pm


Another thing… Your assumptions don’t appear to be based on Scripture. “Well, God wouldn’t allow such and such.” Really? Where’s that in the Tanakh?



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Scott

posted September 6, 2006 at 3:11 pm


Geoff, Care to elaborate and elucidate, because you aren’t getting the point across real well.



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Sophia

posted September 6, 2006 at 6:49 pm


Read Psalm 22 and you will see the crucifixtion of Christ clearly portaid. There are so many scriptures in the old Testament that predicts the coming of Christ in all His Glory. Real Christians love the Jewish people and are all praying for peace in Israel. God Bless you all.



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Scott

posted September 6, 2006 at 8:23 pm


Sophia, Psalm 22 speaks of Israel, not JC. The reason you see so many predictions of JC in the only bible is because the authors of the gospels has our bible open in front of them and they made him fit – if he even ever existed, which I doubt.



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(Rev.) Paulina K. Dennis

posted September 7, 2006 at 1:56 am


I am ordained as a Congregational minister, and have worked in eucumenical and interfaith circles for quite a while. I have been a student of Judaism and Jewish life for that time, studying at one of the major NY orthodox shuls and attending a yeshiva for women. I fell in love with Jewish learning and the Hebrew language and still am. I find I have little tolerance, I am sorry to say, for “Jews for Jesus,” which is an oxymoron if ever there were one. I believe our respective faiths can be brought together because of the common ground we share in the Bible (Tanakh) and one of the most important things we share beyond that is a growing urgency to take part in “Tikkun Olam.” But we must do this in the best manner that suits each faith. Jews should be the best Jews they should be; Christians should be the best Christians they can be. Perhaps the twain will meet at some point, but it will not be over (questionable at best) theological concerns. We have a great new battle (perhaps not so new, but far more vicious)out there to win, and we need to recognize our human commonality. “Jews for Jesus” is not as dangerous as assimulation, as my rabbi recently pointed out.



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Geoff

posted September 7, 2006 at 3:30 pm


Rev. Paulina, Go read the book of Acts and then come back and tell me whether you stand by your comments.



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Geoff

posted September 7, 2006 at 3:31 pm


Scott, Why would people make up stuff and then go out and die for a lie?



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Scott

posted September 7, 2006 at 4:49 pm


Geoff, Who says they died? Tradition? Where’s the proof? The book of Acts? Dismissed as history by many hsitorians and theologians.



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I found J hiding behind my cou

posted September 7, 2006 at 8:47 pm


Why would people make up stuff and then go out and die for a lie? Geoff | Ummmm The Mormons died for their lie too. Joe Smith also did what the xtians did to us by taking their scriptures and changing them to fit in with their new belifes. So yeah people WILL die even for a lie.



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eastcoastlady

posted September 7, 2006 at 8:57 pm


Not believing in JC as Messiah has nothing to do with hating him, for those who claim otherwise. Stop twisting us and our words. Jesus is nowhere to be found in the Tanakh, though those who believe he is Messiah can twist anything they want to see him. Try explaining why he did not fufill so many of the other prophecies. Just leave us alone, okay?



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eastcoastlady

posted September 7, 2006 at 8:58 pm


Just leave us alone, okay? Or is that against your religion?



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Geoff

posted September 7, 2006 at 9:32 pm


Lots of people die for things. But the original followers of Jesus were in a position to know better. So bringing up Mormons or any other group doesn’t show a pertinent similarity because of this main dissimilarity. Speaking of historians, Josephus records the death of James. Tradition tells us about others. Those who knew the apostles quote the New Testament liberally, and I would suspect the book of Acts is in there as well.



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Geoff

posted September 7, 2006 at 10:30 pm


Whatever. I don’t give the “NT” a shred of credance anyhow.



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Linda

posted September 8, 2006 at 9:11 pm


Rabbi Stearn, You said, “Irrespective of whether or not Jesus was a Jew, a failed messiah, or a prophet, the bottom line remains: it is both socially and theologically impossible to be a Jew and accept Jesus as the messiah.” How could this be ‘theologically impossible’? A leopard cannot change it’s spots no more than becoming a Christian makes a Jew less a Jew. In fact, it is when one becomes a Christian that one ‘becomes’ a Jew. In the Torah, it is written, that ‘circumsion is not of the flesh’, making one Jewish, but one of the ‘heart’. I understand the unacceptable stance socially, since ‘tradition’ plays a strong part in most cultures…But not theologically.



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shelly

posted September 9, 2006 at 6:17 pm


Linda, If you believe Jesus is a god, or if you believe in the Trinity, then you believe in more than one god. Judaically there is only ONE, there fore theologically if you’re jewish religiously you believe in the one G-d; If you believe in Jesus and/or the Trinity you believe in mulitple gods and therefore are not Jewish or are blaspheming.



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Annonymous

posted September 9, 2006 at 7:03 pm


From the 10 Generations Mentioned in Genesis 5: Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainain, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah When we assemble the Hebrew meanings of these names together in birth order, we find a message unfolding before us… just as it had to have for those who witnessed the names of these generations so long ago: MANKIND / IS APPOINTED TO / A FEEBLE, FRAIL, MORTALITY / IN A FIXED DWELLING PLACE. / GOD WHO IS PRAISED / COMES DOWN / TO INSTRUCT / AS A MAN SENT FORTH / TO BE BEATEN, SMITTEN AND TORTURED / BRINGING REST, A QUIET PEACE. Coincidence you say, sure… right. Our God begs us to understand Him, even from the early parts of Torah.



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M

posted September 14, 2006 at 5:38 pm


Wow, what a thread to attempt to address. There are not enough words or time to do so. I wish you all peace. It is tragic we cannot all just get along. My question: “Isn’t the “Messiah” supposed to be a mortal leader who will act as Herald for the Last Judgment, not a divinity? Have all the criteria for the appearance of the Herald been satisfied? How do we know this?” My soap-box: “Humans trying to find G-d’s Truth will not be a short road. Arguing with either a Jews-for-Jesus member, or committed person of another faith, is not likely going to produce an agreement either. People are born, they live, then they die. What they do in the meanwhile is the important thing. Living the tenets of your faith, even if they conflict with others, should be the focus of each of us. No one, and I repeat, NO ONE has the exclusive religious truth. We are not G-d (or whatever you believe is the Boss or not). Or maybe, we all are and the whole religion thing is made up by humans? Ever think of that? And if it is? What do we do then, knowing that (hypothetically speaking) all the world’s religions are made up by people? Should that make a difference in the best of each? The best of humanity? The Golden Rule? Hammurabi’s Code? The Mayflower Compact? A point is does anyone really know if there is a G-d, or several, why it isn’t so that It is not just trying to have a relationship with you? If we (humanity) really did come together under a single religious banner, will it create a better world? Maybe we were all scattered at Babel and have been trying to come together ever since? Or come to G-d again? Read everything, believe everything, question everything. The road to peace and “Truth” is worth the effort. The road to death and suffering is the same road. No religion left alive in the world today is based on killing, violence, persecution, and inflction of pain.” Sorry to waste your time. I urge you all to immerse yourselves in your faith(s). See the best, do the best, and promote the best. Maybe we will find we have enough in common to live in peace and heal the world.



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Thaddeus Irvine

posted October 18, 2007 at 11:56 am


Linda,
I agree with you that the Trinity IS a reality. It is NOT a contradiction in terms. The Bible makes it clear, from the very first verse in the OT, that the trinity is a fact.
I’d love to discuss this firther.
God bless,
Thad



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