Stuff Christian Culture Likes

Stuff Christian Culture Likes


#199 Countering the gay agenda

posted by Stephanie Drury

gayagenda1.jpg

Christian culture feels the recent anti-bullying legislation is a subversive means to infiltrate the vulnerable younger generation with the homosexual agenda. The It Gets Better Project addresses the epidemic of suicides in gay adolescents who have been bullied, so you might think the staunchly pro-life Christian culture would champion this effort, but the gay issue seems to supercede suicide prevention.

Christian culture is deeply afraid of some sort of indoctrination by homosexuals. At this website they say “Gay activists realize that if they can capture the hearts and minds of the next generation, they will, for all practical purposes, have won the culture war.” There’s that culture war again. The fact that Christian culture is so invested in the idea of a culture war is interesting because the Jesus they claim to follow didn’t promote a culture, but rather a consuming love that casts out all fear. The fact that Christian culture is so frightened makes you wonder what their motivation is.

Jesus said the world will know his followers by their love. Ask some gay Americans if they’ve felt cared for and sought out by someone who claims to be a Christian and chances are they will say no. Interestingly, in many of the videos on It Gets Better bullying victims say that Christians and the church have induced much of their shame and fear. If Jesus spoke of love more than anything else and never addressed homosexuality once, which of the two might he be concerned with? Christian culture tends to couch “confronting” gay people with the truth about their sin as being loving. People in Christian culture don’t seem to see themselves as being as sinful as they think gay people are. But claiming to follow God while refusing to humble yourself dooms all of us to repeat history as the Pharisees wrote it.



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George, American

posted October 30, 2010 at 6:20 pm


Great post Steph.
It reminds me of a “former” lesbian I know who managed to “Get Saved©” when someone we went to high school with but barely knew died suddenly of testicular cancer that he didn’t realize that he had. Her facebook statuses regularly read as such: “i love society. apparently, its far more offensive to show someone why they’re probably going to hell than it is to actually send them there.”
Apparently, this isn’t what’s know as “arrogance” but I am sure that if I were to say that, I’d get the “It’s good to be arrogant for Jesus” line I’ve heard time and time again.



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Kyle Reardon

posted October 30, 2010 at 6:35 pm


I don’t understand the mentality in a lot of Christian culture that if we do something, like ban gay marriage or whatever that homosexuality will some how go away. I feel like so much of it is backwards, and we’re pulling our own faith further and further from it’s foundations and turning it into a caricature.



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derek

posted October 30, 2010 at 6:52 pm


Check out the “NOM” page. Every so often you’ll see the comment, “i don’t mind being a bigot for truth” or, call me a bigot all you want, we’ll see who ends up in hell.”
Makes me lolz



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Paul R

posted October 30, 2010 at 8:35 pm


Christians seem to have a very inflated regard for the appeal of homosexuality. As if the only thing preventing their offspring from engaging in homosexual orgies is their constant condemnation of the practice.
I can’t think of any other reason for this outrage. It’s not about saving souls – unless they come to Jesus, people who “choose the gay lifestyle” will still go to hell regardless of what they do or don’t do in their bedrooms. And let’s face it, can you think of anything less likely to make someone want to join your club than telling them that they should kill themselves?
Maybe it’s the fault of the homosexual lobby. By reclaiming the word “gay” they make sodomy sound like an awful lot of fun. Perhaps if they’d chosen a less appealing moniker, they’d be seen as less of a threat?



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shelly

posted October 30, 2010 at 9:46 pm


Seriously. What IS their motivation? Because it certainly isn’t love.
CAPTCHA: problems poracque



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Jess P

posted October 30, 2010 at 9:49 pm


“…the Jesus they claim to follow didn’t promote a culture, but rather a consuming love that casts out all fear.”
Really good.



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Ed

posted October 30, 2010 at 10:36 pm


An issue with respect to the issue of “gay bullying” (bullying due to perceived and/or actual sexual orientation) is 1) that some teachers, in being homophobic, let bullies continue bullying OR 2) that some bullied students, especially the gay ones, may be *too ashamed* to report being bullied for being gay (like rape victims)



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Rachel

posted October 31, 2010 at 2:53 am


ARGH. You have no idea how much this sickens me on so many levels.
And I hear (and have been on the opposite end of) arguments saying that “oh why are we focusing on gay kids being bullied ALL bullying is bad” and trying to tone down the severity of what these kids are going through. Yes, all bullying is horrible, but the church accepts kids who are called fat, dumb, ugly, poor, lame, or stupid, but if you’re gay they kick you right out.
Good call on perfect love casting out fear. God is bigger than the boogeyman, and yet some Christians seem more than happy to construct armies of boogeymen out of shadows. Especially the shadows of those they’re called to love.



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Christopher

posted October 31, 2010 at 1:41 pm


Parents who teach their kids to be aware of homos in their schools and to belittle weaker kids , this is the problem . Jesus was a very sensitive and homo like person. Should he have been bullied ? Its about letting people grow up to be what ever they feel they are by nature not forced to be.. Keep your kids home if you want them to judge others…



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ransacker

posted November 1, 2010 at 10:22 am


Stephany, Bravo. You hit this one out of the park. Oscar Wilde would be proud.



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ThatGuy

posted November 1, 2010 at 4:53 pm


The world has overall gotten more tolerant over the decades, but this is only a recent epidemic. I think if we stopped building up the homosexual profile as constantly being a victim. Which they are in many cases, dont get me wrong, but its gotten to a point where it is all to a fault. Liberals and hollywood give me insecurities about some of my libertarian views and are the source of shame and fear for having a diffent political orientation, I don’t go offing myself though. Im not a christian and Im not a homosexual, but I think christianity has become an easy target. Those who are doing the bullying are idiot Rutger students, not catholic Cardinals. Why not condemn the Muslim faith too? Im not some Islamaphob(I hate being called names that imply I’m racist), but I’m trying to point out that picking on Christianity because its an easy target smacks of bullying to me.



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Rosa

posted November 1, 2010 at 6:52 pm


Thatguy, my son’s school has a no-bullying policy.
It tries to prevent bullying by proactive training for the kids – we don’t bully, we stand up for anyone being bullied, we tell an adult if we can’t handle things – and the training doesn’t mention the specific reasons a bully might pick a person, just the behaviors that constitute bullying.
So, if you were being picked on *in school* or outside of school *by students* for being a libertarian, it would help you.



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kenneth

posted November 1, 2010 at 8:17 pm


Alright Thatguy, I’ll take the bait: Islamic culture’s record on treatment of gays (and practically any other minority), sucks. But we’re talking about 3 million Muslims in this country, maybe half of whom are adults, versus the 200 million or so who are Christian. Not all Christians are homophobes of course, but the overwhelming amount of torment of gay people in this country comes at the hands of Christians and Christian ideology.
No, Catholic bishops are not leading the mobs themselves, but they give the mobs a theological and ideological cover they would not otherwise have. There is an almost daily drumbeat from the Catholic Church (and others) about how gays are “disordered” people and a “threat to the family.” They raise and spend tens of millions of dollars to spread this message and elect the most reactionary candidates they can find. Christianity is an easy target on this count because it has made itself so. It has earned its place. The church will try to deny its role in hate by pointing to all sorts of lovely nuanced theology that “hates the sin and not the sinner,” but mobs and insecure teenage males aren’t big on nuance. They pick up on the words and tone that gay people are “the problem” and need to be cleaned from society.
I’m not sure that being libertarian is equivalent to being gay as minority experiences go. Not a lot of 15-year old guys get beaten down for “acting libertarian” or for any political identity as far as I can see. Disdain by a few dozen Hollywood actors and producers doesn’t amount to much in the way of oppression either. For that matter I don’t see how conservatives feel threatened by “liberals” at all in this country. Liberals haven’t been in charge in any meaningful way since the 1970s. Conservatives and libertarians own probably 99% of the guns in this country, and probably a majority of the guns on this half of the planet.



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Frank

posted November 1, 2010 at 10:18 pm


ThatGuy,
Pointing out that the Bible contains a verse inciting ritual murder against gays:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)
is hardly bullying. It’s merely accurate.
As for the Catholic bishops, they oppose any law that specifically mentions “sexual orientation.” Hence, bullying on the basis of sexual orientation can’t be specifically denounced. “Freedom of religion” will cover everything up to and including suborning (promoting) suicide to gay students, for example:
“So I say to you that these (homosexuals) are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body…..” (St. John Chrysostom, Catholic Saint)
It is undeniable that the USCCB deliberately sabotaging the prevention of suicide prevention programs to have its way politically, and by their example the USCCB are demonstrating that the lives of gays and lesbians, celibate or not, are worth less than those of heterosexuals.
That example does more damage than any bullying ever could.



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Frank

posted November 1, 2010 at 10:20 pm


The last two paragraphs should read:
It is undeniable that the USCCB is deliberately sabotaging the prevention of suicide prevention programs to have its way politically, and by their example the USCCB are demonstrating that the lives of gays and lesbians, celibate or not, are worth less than those of heterosexuals.
That example does more damage than any bullying ever could.



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Mary

posted November 2, 2010 at 11:27 am


Okay, so this whole “culture war” is something I really have trouble with. There seems to be this idea in American Christianity that says that the country was founded on Christian principles, and the “culture warriors” are trying to defend the nation’s roots. I’m a Canadian so I see this from the outside, and it just doesn’t make sense to me. (I’m not trying to pick on Americans here, but this mindset is FAR more prevalent in the US than in Canada).
I haven’t been in history class for many years so I may have forgotten a few things, but I seem to recall learning that America (and Canada) was founded on religious FREEDOM, not on Christianity. In fact, I also recall learning that the reason a lot of Puritans came to the New World was to escape the tyranny of Britain’s religious oppression- they were being persecuted for not being a part of the Church of England. I certainly get the impression that Americans see their country as one that treasures freedom (of religion, of speech, of the press, fill in the blank). That statue you have in the New York harbour… what’s it called again? Oh right. The Statue of LIBERTY.
So if your country (and mine) actually IS founded on Christianity, then yes, we have every right to get upset about gay rights. We can try to overturn laws that promote gay rights, and for that matter the Westboro Baptist guys can picket funerals and Terry Jones can have his “Burn a Koran Day” because it’s all in the name of protecting the Christian background of our nations. But if your nation (and mine) is founded on religious freedom (as we are quick to point out whenever Christianity is spoken against), then we cannot get upset when people of other religions and people whose lifestyles don’t jive with the Bible get a few rights. In fact, we should expect it.



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Stephen Charles

posted November 2, 2010 at 12:00 pm


Mary, yes, Christian culture warriors usually start with the assumption that modern virtue of religious freedom has some root in Christianity then try to capture religious freedom for Christianity. But to suggest that Christianity implies religious freedom is a distortion of Christianity because Christianity is highly intolerant of religious or moral freedom: if you reject a Nicean Christology or affirm the validity of homosexual behavior, for example, you’re out. But here’s the kicker: you’re out of the church, not the nation. The failure of Xian culture warriors is to make a distinction between church and state.
If they want to be consistent they’ll have to also work to civilly disenfranchise Mormons, Muslims and Wiccans (Roman Catholic and Protestant warriors have an even harder time since they’ll have to boot each other since their respective communions anathemetize each other).



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Eris

posted November 2, 2010 at 5:44 pm


Hey ThatGuy.
a) Christians are a privileged group in this society. Just like straight people, white people, heterosexual people, and men. No one is ‘persecuting’ you.
b) From what I’ve seen of Christian love (and I have PTSD from bullying by “christian” kids in a “christian” school), the Jesus *I* learned about would be utterly appalled. I’ve never met anyone from any other faith-or-lack-thereof identification than the so called Christians I grew up with.
You don’t want people to call out your crap? Then stop doing said crap.



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ThatGuy

posted November 3, 2010 at 11:30 am


Kenneth, I thought we were talking about all homosexuals, not just in the US. I won’t worry about the rest of them then, :-) Just kidding. You make all valid points, I just like to play devil’s advocate sometimes.
Frank, I highly doubt that that idiot from Rutgers could quote Leviticus 20:13. Also, you can’t condemn christians for not being like Jesus and not loving everyone (as argued in the article), while also condemning those who follow a religion whose text contains some arcaic scrupture about ritual murder.
Eris, no one is persecuting me, I think the irony in my comment about hollywood bullying a certain way of thinking was lost in how I wrote it. I apologize. I may be verbally bullied sometimes, but who isn’t?
My larger point was to say that this country has gotten better, and more tolerant over the decades. I say let the natural progression continue, rather than lumping christians into one charicature so that we don’t just flip flop from having been the oppressor to become the oppressed later. In the end there won’t be any net loss in groups that are oppressed. (To Kenneth, but everyone who reads also) So what if they have that definition of a family? Let them believe what they want and continue on the natural progression of things. You can’t argue that its not going in a favorable direction. By magnifying the victimization of homosexuals it only reinforces that they are victims to those who are homosexual and to the bully’s.



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Renee

posted November 4, 2010 at 1:21 am


Thanks so much for posting this. When I saw that Focus on the Family had urged people to speak out against an anti-bullying because of the gay agenda, I almost wanted to hurl the computer against the wall. I can’t say that I experienced the same type of bullying that gay teenagers face. However, I will say that growing up as different and nerdy person not interested in clothes and boys and those types of things that Youth Group was MUCH more judgmental and worse than school was. I considered suicide at one point. Maybe it was because I expected more of them, or maybe it was because Christian youth are so sure of themselves and everything is black and white.
The thing that gets me is What “Gay Agenda”? You mean the fact that people are born this way and they should be treated as loved children of God? The fact that one of my very good friends from a conservative Christian home in the South finally came out after HUGE struggles and her parents tried to send her to “re-education camp” and have never allowed her partner into the school. She told me “I would NEVER have chosen this”. Or my other friend who was married to a lovely woman but then realized that though he loved her, he is gay and therefore couldn’t get intimate with her because of not having those attractions for “knowing” her in the Christian sense, and so they parted amicably. Of some of my best friends who are lesbians and have not felt comfortable at church – with the stares like “we’ll hate your sin but love the sinner” and the oh so polite church folk? My friends who have lived together for years, just want to be able to file joint taxes, get health insurance, and have all the civil benefits of marriage. What Gay Agenda? Do these Christian Culture people think you can Make people become gay if children learn to accept those who are not the same as they are?
If I ever meet a man that I would like to marry, I would prefer to get a Civil Union, as so many of my friends cannot marry. I just don’t understand this opposition, and it makes me sad and angry at the same time. I have so many friends who have NOT felt welcomed in the church because of who they are. This was one of my favorite videos from the It Gets Better Project: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL1r2-DDMSo
I am shocked (or maybe not shocked) at how many people mention bullying at church or from Christians in their stories. I just wish that we could be known by our LOVE, as Jesus said that his disciples should be known by. Who stopped by the road for someone hurting – not the pastor / religious leader, not the Levite or lay leader – the hated Samaritan the foreigner, the group who basically seemed to be heretical to people of that time. Why have we Christians lost sight of this, and lost sight of Jesus’s message? What are we known for? Is it love? Or legalism? I see so many Christian marriages fall apart – I know of three that have fallen apart within 2/3 years (isn’t the Christian divorce rate higher than the secular divorce rate?) while I have gay friends who have been together for 10 years and still going strong. Why is it an agenda to ask for the same rights as other people? (its the same as getting rid of tax cuts being raising taxes). Why is it an agenda to love people as they are, and not try to have a missionary relationship? Why is it an agenda to love your neighbor as yourself? Who is my neighbor?



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Renee

posted November 4, 2010 at 1:32 am


Oh – one more that I loved:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXUQGG0Ta5c&feature=related
Interesting the Christian response to him coming out…



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Raycol

posted November 4, 2010 at 8:09 am


While Jesus is not recorded as saying anything about homosexuality, we can surmise his probable views.
Jesus’ ideas on same-sex behavior would have been partly formed by his Jewish background and religious education. This would include his acceptance of male-female sex as the usual practice and his knowledge of the condemnation of full sex between males in Leviticus. Therefore Jesus probably agreed with his culture’s view that sex between men is bad. It is likely that his views would have been expanded by the occupying Greco-Roman culture, reinforcing his culture’s basic values of purity and male honor. Hellenistic Jews around Jesus’ time were hostile towards sex between males.
The Gospels report Jesus as saying very little about sex. He did condemn adultery, illicit or immoral sex and sexual debauchery (Mark 7:21-22) He also emphasized the permanence of male-female marriage (Mark 10: 6-8) while rejecting traditional family values (Luke 14:26 and Matthew 12:47-49).
Jesus’ only implied reference to same-sex sexual activity is its possible inclusion in his condemnation of illicit or immoral sex (assuming that illicit sex is any sexual activity condemned in the Old Testament). On the other hand, it is possible that Jesus was referring to gay men when he mentioned “born eunuchs” – without any condemnation (Matthew 19:12). In Bible times, such men were anatomically whole but were unable or unwilling to have sex with women. They either were not at all interested in sex or were interested but only with other men.



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stephanie drury

posted November 4, 2010 at 1:49 pm


You say that Jesus’ ideas would have been partly formed on his Jewish background and religious education…but if one believes he was the Son of God then it seems they’d believe his Jewishness and religious education would completely override any culture or so-called education he received.



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Tony D.

posted November 5, 2010 at 6:12 pm


More than that…if Jesus is who the Church says He is, then He is the very *source* of Old Testament values…he shaped them, not vice-versa.



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g

posted November 8, 2010 at 8:06 pm


Renee is right on!
This demonization of Gays has got to be one of the most heinous hate filled actions I have witnessed in years. THIS ‘THEY”RE OUT TO TEACH YOUR CHILDREN THAT GAY IS GOOD’ sounds like some kind of torch carrying, KKK clamoring lynch mob. SHAME ON YOU! The GAY people I know (and I know a number of them because I am in the world of music and Ballet) have without exception been the most caring, UN-AGENDA considerate BRIGHT, FUNNY CREATIVE LOVING AND ACCEPTING people I have met! God loves them and if God hates Homosexuality he also hates divorce, lying, lust, glutonny etc just as much. And the CHURCH is filled with people enrgetically practicing all these sins!
Oh but ‘Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven”! Oh yeah the ‘bumper sticker theology’ cop out.



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Truth be told

posted November 18, 2010 at 12:01 pm


Brava, Steph. Great thought-provoking post.
Re:
“Christian culture tends to couch “confronting” gay people with the truth about their sin as being loving.”
Methinks the quote-marks are around the wrong words. It should read “Christian” culture tends to couch confronting gay people with the “truth” about their “sin” as being “loving.”
Re:
“People in Christian culture don’t seem to see themselves as being as sinful as they think gay people are.
Agreed. They always seem to forget that only the one without sin gets to cast a stone. I wonder who put these “Christians” in charge of the stones?
Also, that website you linked to calls themselves “truetolerance” when they’e anything but. Seems they have a vested innterest in promulgating lies about God’s LBGT children. How sad. Jesus would weep.



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Truth be told

posted November 18, 2010 at 12:30 pm


Thatguy,
“I think if we stopped building up the homosexual profile as constantly being a victim. Which they are in many cases, dont get me wrong, but its gotten to a point where it is all to a fault.”
In what way have (ahem) “we” built up homosexual persons (“profile”??? PUH-LEEZE, this is PEOPLE we’re discussing) as “constantly being a victim”? When gay people are bullied, they ARE victims. Maybe it’s time we focused on the victimizers – who are the actual problem – and not the victims.
“Liberals and hollywood give me insecurities about some of my libertarian views and are the source of shame and fear for having a diffent political orientation”
One can change one’s political affiliation on a whim. One cannot change one’s innate sexual orientation. Either you ARE attracted to persons of the same gender, or you are NOT. Either you are proud of your particular poitical affiliation or you are not. Any “shame” or “fear” you feel because of your political associations is entirely within your control.
“I think christianity has become an easy target.”
Nominal “Christians” who bully/torment others because of perceived seuxal orientation (some str8 kids get bullied because they are perceived to be gay when, in fact, they are not.*) Such “Christians” bring any approbation upon themselves.
“Those who are doing the bullying are idiot Rutger students, not catholic Cardinals.”
Sorry, but you are wrong. It is Catholic Cardinals (and Bishops and Priests, even the Pope himself) who toe the party line that being gay is “intrinsically disordered”. Kind of odd, when you consider Who it is that actually does the ‘ordering’.
* More on perception – in 31 American States still today, one can be fired – legally – for being gay – or even for being THOUGHT to be gay. This is legally State-sanctioned bullying.



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Truth be told

posted November 18, 2010 at 12:43 pm


From what I obserrve, “Christians” don’t “want to be consistent” (as Stephen Charles hypothetically purports). They very much want to be selective.
As Frank said, “Pointing out that the Bible contains a verse inciting ritual murder against gays: ‘If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)’ is hardly bullying. It’s merely accurate.”
But it is ALSO selective, since the Bible (the same book, in fact) says that we are also to put disobedient children to death, put victims of incest to death and deny communion to the disabled. People that use selective pull-quotes are Biblical automatons, doing just what Let’s Focus on SOME People’s Families tells them to do. And they do it without thinking. And, without feeling. And that is how some of God’s LGBT Children meet their Maker prematurely.



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Mr. Incredible, in Jesus" Nam, the ONLY Name by which we must be saved!

posted November 27, 2010 at 6:31 pm


Where does the Word of God say that “we” should kill those who claim to be homosexual? Who’s this “we”?



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Grumpy Old Person

posted December 28, 2010 at 2:12 pm


Where? In Leviticus. Look it up your lazy self!



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Your Name

posted April 29, 2011 at 1:10 am


Don’t get Christians started on the gays. They HATE the gays with a passion. Especially in the south. God forbid gay people ever have civil rights or are ever loved, accepted, and understood in society despite their differences. It’s really kind of sad. And I don’t consider the institution of marriage “under attack” if it’s just adjusting to be more equal and friendly. I thought that’s what Christianity was about, love and equality?



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