Steven Waldman

Steven Waldman


Did Bush Justify the Iraq Invasion As Biblical Prophecy?

posted by swaldman

jesus_return.jpgAccording to a new account, President Bush tried to enlist France’s support for the Iraq invasion by telling French President Jacques Chirac that the war would fulfill Biblical end of times prophecies.

“Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East…. The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled…. This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins.”

This is truly an extraordinary accusation. Could it possibly be true? I don’t read French so it’s hard for me to assess but here’s the explanation from James Haught, who is editor of the Charleston (West Virginia) Gazette and a secular website, the Council for Secular Humanism:

After the 2003 call, the puzzled French leader didn’t comply with Bush’s request. Instead, his staff asked Thomas Romer, a theologian at the University of Lausanne, to analyze the weird appeal. Dr. Romer explained that the Old Testament book of Ezekiel contains two chapters (38 and 39) in which God rages against Gog and Magog, sinister and mysterious forces menacing Israel. Jehovah vows to smite them savagely, to “turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws,” and slaughter them ruthlessly. In the New Testament, the mystical book of Revelation envisions Gog and Magog gathering nations for battle, “and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”
In 2007, Dr. Romer recounted Bush’s strange behavior in Lausanne University’s review, Allez Savoir. A French-language Swiss newspaper, Le Matin Dimanche, printed a sarcastic account titled: “When President George W. Bush Saw the Prophesies of the Bible Coming to Pass.” France’s La Liberte likewise spoofed it under the headline “A Small Scoop on Bush, Chirac, God, Gog and Magog.” But other news media missed the amazing report.
Subsequently, ex-President Chirac confirmed the nutty event in a long interview with French journalist Jean-Claude Maurice, who tells the tale in his new book, Si Vous le Répétez, Je Démentirai (If You Repeat it, I Will Deny), released in March by the publisher Plon.

(Hat tip: Andrew Sullivan)



Advertisement
Comments read comments(39)
post a comment
Gershon

posted August 6, 2009 at 2:32 pm


DAVID LETTERMAN’S HATE, ETC. !
David Letterman’s hate is as old as some ancient Hebrew prophets.
Speaking of anti-Semitism, it’s Jerry Falwell and other fundy leaders who’ve gleefully predicted that in the future EVERY nation will be against Israel (an international first?) and that TWO-THIRDS of all Jews will be killed, right?
Wrong! It’s the ancient Hebrew prophet Zechariah who predicted all this in the 13th and 14th chapters of his book! The last prophet, Malachi, explains the reason for this future Holocaust that’ll outdo even Hitler’s by stating that “Judah hath dealt treacherously” and “the Lord will cut off the man that doeth this” and asks “Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother?”
Haven’t evangelicals generally been the best friends of Israel and persons perceived to be Jewish? Then please explain the recent filthy, hate-filled, back-stabbing tirades by David Letterman (and Sandra Bernhard and Kathy Griffin) against a leading evangelical named Sarah Palin, and explain why most Jewish leaders have seemingly condoned Palin’s continuing “crucifixion”!
While David, Sandra, and Kathy are tragically turning comedy into tragedy, they are also helping to speed up and fulfill the Final Holocaust a la Zechariah and Malachi, thus helping to make the Bible even more believable!
(For even more stunning information, visit MSN, Google etc. and type in “Separation of Raunch and State,” “Michael the Narc-Angel,” “Bible Verses Obama Avoids,” and “Hate Bill Favoritism.”)



report abuse
 

Richard

posted August 6, 2009 at 4:37 pm


Uhh ok Gershon. Whatever. Your post had absolutely nothing to do with what Steve posted but it was a nice rant. How long have you been off your meds?



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted August 6, 2009 at 5:26 pm


This sounds like the same speculative vitriol that was said of Reagan and Bush the Elder. It might have sparked my curiosity had I not heard it all 29 years ago. Of course, Chirac is treated as infallible in all he says and does.
Silly me, but maybe, just maybe, after the plane crash into the Pentagon, the loss of the WTC, Shanksville, and the first time a President was made to coordinate national defense from Air Force One, Bush may have believed that an existential threat needed to be met. Why did Abu Nidal get assasinated in Baghdad a week before we went in, and what was he doing there? Where DID all the WMD that UN weapons inspector Hans Blix claimed to have catalogued disappear to? On the strength of Blix’s word, we accepted that an unaccepable threat existed.
Oh well. No use going over the dead past. For the first time, the American people have elected a savior, so it’s really a moot point. No doubt Obama’s charisma and statesmanship will bring our enemies into peaceful orbit with us. Let’s forget Bush and rally ’round the savior.



report abuse
 

Gerard Nadal

posted August 6, 2009 at 5:27 pm


That Your Name was me. CAPTCHA strikes again.



report abuse
 

reddopto

posted August 6, 2009 at 7:48 pm


Gershon,
Concerning those Zechariah prophecies, I’m writing a book on Haggai and Zechariah, so what you were saying is right up my alley. In the early part of Zechariah 12, it does say “all the nations will be arrayed against Israel.” I would have hoped that we would have been excluded, but no such exclusion is in there. This does appear to be a latter day prophecy, but not the “end end.” Israel miraculously destroys the attackers in that battle. In verse 10, some of the Jews (the house of David) in Jerusalem and some of the Muslims recognize “the one they have pierced,” which sounds like Jesus.
However, the mention of 2/3 of the Jews in Israel being killed is not an end-times prophecy, in my opinion. That prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem. The verses on that are Zechariah 13:7-8. Verse 7 says “strike the shepherd who is my associate.” That’s a reference to Jesus and his crucifixion. The 2/3’s being killed occurred in the Roman assault against Judea in 67-70 A.D.
I find the prophecies very interesting, but anyone who would think that they should intervene to help God fulfill these prophecies is seriously deluded. Such an effort, in itself, would be a profaning of God.



report abuse
 

pagansister

posted August 6, 2009 at 8:27 pm


“…….but anyone who would think that they should intervene to help God fulfill these prophecies is seriously deluded.” reddopto
And you think “W” wasn’t seriously deluded most of the time, as to his importance? He started a war because he was actually thought we could win in 2 weeks. He was going to be a “savior” I guess. I admire the soldiers and back them, but they died and were maimed for no other reason except Bushe’s arrogance. Prophecy fulfillment? No, just because Bush Jr. wanted to leave his mark…he has. Not a good mark.



report abuse
 

Mark Eichenlaub

posted August 7, 2009 at 12:11 am


Interesting debate here. I think Bush may have believed some of the religious aspect in this though it’s complicated though there was a lot of world consensus on WMD’s.
The Iraq,terror thing that I write about often was a good reason to be concerned about though maybe not grounds for invading Iraq. Certainly important issues to look at.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted August 7, 2009 at 10:45 am


Did Bush Justify the Iraq Invasion As Biblical Prophecy?
——————–
I think President Bush and others use the Bible to justify a lot of decidedly heinous, un-Christian behavior
It’s said the awful things people will do in the name of Jesus and Ronald Reagan



report abuse
 

Anderson

posted August 7, 2009 at 11:24 am


While I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if this account were true, I’ll remain skeptical until I hear something from a source other than the Council on Secular Humanism. Nothing against the Council on Secular Humanism per se, but one must be cautious when a story’s only source is a group that is at odds with the subject of the story. (This also applies to a lot of the false, exaggerated, and distorted stories that have been circulated regarding health care legislation.)



report abuse
 

hootie1fan

posted August 7, 2009 at 2:21 pm


Don’t confuse support for Israel with love of the Jews.
I’ve found that too many of the most ardent evangelical supporters of the state of Israel are also fairly-to-blatantly anti-Semitic. Love Israel for the Biblical prophesies or at least the ones that your version of the Bible give you while at the same time condemning the Jewish people to hell for not being the “right” kind of Christian.



report abuse
 

btengineer

posted August 8, 2009 at 11:21 pm


Helter Skelter… 40 years later?..another guy tries the theory?



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted August 10, 2009 at 11:06 am


Talking about fulfilling prophecies, God’s intentions of punishing certain groups and elevating others, former president Bush’s way of thinking and the thinking of others similar to him could be great stories, even true stories with one important qualification: we must state that we are operating in an Imaginary World, where no proof, no logic, no verification are ever required. In the Real World, however, we see a merciless interaction among a variety forces, where prediction can only be a dream and the outcome of any struggle is always unpredictable, due to the concept of uncertainty, which establishes and guarantees an unalterable relationship between likely and unlikely, therefore things that are likely will not, and things that are unlikely, will happen. Did the Bible mention uncertainty?



report abuse
 

Robert

posted August 11, 2009 at 10:25 am


I call shenanigans.
Jean Claude Maurice has a book to sell.
W would have undoubtedly reconciled his action with his faith after making all of the logical arguments, and that may have included his role in the prophesies.
We are not being given the whole truth of this conversation with Chirac (who was no real friend).



report abuse
 

cejaxon

posted August 13, 2009 at 1:07 pm


One thing about France, the Iraq war, etc. that has long puzzled me is this: why do we never re-examine the starting point for our views? Robert says “Chirac ([was] no real friend),” & I wouldn’t be surprised if he also felt France generally was not our friend. Why?
In 2002-3, the Bush administration began a campaign to convince America to go to war with Iraq. They used false information — in some cases, probably unknowingly, but in other cases, it’s less clear whether this was naively done. One of the keystones of their argument was that “everyone” knows that Hussein has WMD. Except… some number of experts and people from other countries dissented. It was never actually true that “everyone” thought this. This dissent was poorly relayed to the American people & most people today really do believe that “everyone” in 2002 thought Hussein had WMD. So I can understand, at least somewhat, why Americans in 2002-3 were so upset with France — we were told Iraq threatened our lives & our allies wouldn’t join us.
But France wasn’t the only nation who said “No” to Bush. Russia, Germany, and Canada also said “No.” Canada’s refusal should have given us the most pause, because Canada helped us more on 9/11 than other countries — when we were too fearful to let American-bound flights land, who had the courage to accept them? Canada sent troops to Afghanistan & has kept them there, despite frequently undiplomatic treatment at the hands of the Bush administration, including the rendition & torture of an innocent Canadian. So why did Americans sneer at our long-time allies, especially France? & why — now that we know that the claims made to get us into the war were false — why do we persist in disliking & distrusting France, whose advice we should have heeded? Why didn’t the revelations about the falsity of the premises for war make people rethink their anger at France?
Consider a more personal case. Suppose you have been so unfortunate as to develop a drinking habit and start hitting your wife. Suppose she takes out a court order against you. One night, you drink again, & propose to your two best friends that they accompany you on a trip to try to win her back. Who is the better friend? The one who agrees to help or the one who counsels you against such folly &, partially in an effort to stop you (but partially because he can foresee no good will come of this for himself, either), refuses help? I say the second friend is more trustworthy. Tony Blair & John Howard did America no favors. France, Germany, & especially Canada have shown themselves our more clear-sighted allies.
I believe Bush is likely to have told such a story (btw, there’s no indication that he’s denied doing this) because others have pointed out that he habitually linked the Iraq war to Biblical texts (why else did Rumsfeld put quotations on Defense Department briefings?), the story came out before Jean-Claude Maurice told it or had a book to sell, and Professor Romer (one source for the story) is not selling a book nor is he a secular humanist with any anti-religion axe to grind.



report abuse
 

Abigael

posted November 25, 2009 at 6:30 am


Wow! This Blog is great. Just like Kim Clement. Kim Clement is an expression that has defined “the prophet” for the modern era. This has made his journey unique; a journey that has taken his inspired message to schools and colleges, churches and synagogues, alleyways and prison cells. Kim’s prophetic gift is a magnet that has drawn a broad audience, as he has whispered to kings and inspired prisoners, his path through life continues to be an exciting adventure.
Abigail



report abuse
 

Abigael

posted December 2, 2009 at 5:23 am


Wow! This Blog is great. Just like Kim Clement. Kim Clement is an expression that has defined “the prophet” for the modern era. This has made his journey unique; a journey that has taken his inspired message to schools and colleges, churches and synagogues, alleyways and prison cells. Kim’s prophetic gift is a magnet that has drawn a broad audience, as he has whispered to kings and inspired prisoners, his path through life continues to be an exciting adventure.
Abigail



report abuse
 

payday loans toronto

posted July 26, 2010 at 8:28 pm


blog.beliefnet.com is great! Payday loans are for those finding themselves incapable in meeting their routine epenses when they are over with their funds Payday loans can be used to cater any of your daily epenses including grocery epenses electricity and gas bills paying school fees bearing



report abuse
 

Mr. Payday Easy Loans Inc.

posted September 8, 2010 at 3:56 am


Hi buddy, incredibly informative publish. Please maintain them coming. cwcuknhcccwgclqvfzgkukggrkhmeirkoso
Mr. Payday Easy Loans Inc.



report abuse
 

payday loans canada

posted September 21, 2010 at 10:08 pm


Good post. Thank for sharing.



report abuse
 

payday loans no fax

posted September 22, 2010 at 9:01 pm


Thanks for high quality news! Your web site is highly useful for me. I bookmarked your site! njdpfmmclvg



report abuse
 

no fax loans

posted September 25, 2010 at 9:15 pm


Well, the post is actually the sweetest on this deserving topic. I agree with your conclusions and will eagerly look forward to your incoming updates. Just saying thanks will not just be adequate, for the wonderful clarity in your writing. I will at once grab your rss feed to stay informed of any updates. Good work and much success in your business endeavors!



report abuse
 

loans in canada

posted September 26, 2010 at 7:01 am


Thanks for such a great post and the review, I am totally impressed! Keep stuff like this coming.



report abuse
 

loan in british columbia

posted September 27, 2010 at 8:28 pm


I will post a link to this blog on my website. I’m sure my readers will find this info really perfect.



report abuse
 

payday loan ontario

posted September 28, 2010 at 10:36 am


This article gives the light in which we can observe the reality. This is extremely nice one and gives in-depth information. Thanks for this nice article.



report abuse
 

loans bc in canada

posted September 29, 2010 at 11:15 pm


Usually I do not write on blogs, but I would like to say that this article really convinced me to do so! Congratulations, fairly nice publish.



report abuse
 

canadian loans

posted September 30, 2010 at 11:23 pm


I will post a link to this blog on my internet site. I’m sure my readers will find this info really good.



report abuse
 

loss weight

posted October 2, 2010 at 7:27 am


I’m happy to have found your rather fantastic article! I agree with some of your readers and will eagerly look forward to your coming updates. Just saying thanks will not just be adequate, for the fantastic lucidity in your writing. I will instantly grab your rss feed to stay privy of any updates. First-rate work and much success in your business efforts.



report abuse
 

faxless payday loan

posted October 4, 2010 at 5:25 am


Greetings everyone, This webpage is superb and so is how the matter was expanded. I like some of the comments as well although I would prefer we all maintain it on topic in order add value to the subject.



report abuse
 

canadian loan bad credit

posted October 6, 2010 at 1:16 pm


This web page is awesome. I constantly encounter something new & different right here. Thank you for that data.



report abuse
 

student financial aid

posted December 18, 2010 at 9:15 pm


This website is the right blog site. ygohxkej



report abuse
 

sample resume

posted December 22, 2010 at 8:32 am


This website is the most helpful internet site. ndqfcfrb



report abuse
 

football online

posted December 24, 2010 at 2:00 pm


I am looking for football online flash game. How can I find it?



report abuse
 

payday loan advance

posted January 13, 2011 at 12:36 pm


Wonderful blogpost all around Did Bush Justify the Iraq Invasion As Biblical Prophecy?
– Steven Waldman!



report abuse
 

payday loans calgary

posted February 17, 2011 at 8:26 am


I like your bloge very much. Great job author of blog.beliefnet.com



report abuse
 

Pingback: Did Bush See the Iraq War as Fulfillment of Biblical Prophecy? « Green Heritage News

Irv

posted September 12, 2013 at 10:04 pm


[Yo Beliefnet. Saw this on the net. Reaction?]

PRETRIB RAPTURE STEALTH !

Many evangelicals believe that Christ will “rapture” them to heaven years before the second coming and (most importantly) well BEFORE Antichrist and his “tribulation.” But Acts 2:34, 35 reveal that Jesus is at the Father’s right hand in heaven until He leaves to destroy His earthly foes at the second coming. And Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven with the Father “until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. (“The Rapture Question,” by the long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn’t dare to even list, in its scripture index, the above verses! They were also too hot for John Darby – the so-called “father of dispensationalism” – to list in the scripture index in his “Letters”!)
Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The “rest” for “all them that believe” is also tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who’d be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the end of trib “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which Scofield views as Israel’s posttrib resurrection!) It’s amazing that the Olivet Discourse contains the “great commission” for the church but not even a hint of a pretrib rapture for the church!
Many don’t know that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this “rapture” was stretched forward and turned into an idolized separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which evangelical scholars overwhelmingly rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” [“gathering”] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!). Google “Walvoord Melts Ice” for more on this, and also Google “Pretrib Rapture Pride.”
Other Google articles on the 183-year-old pretrib rapture view include “X-Raying Margaret,” “Margaret Macdonald’s Rapture Chart,” “Pretrib Rapture’s Missing Lines,” “Edward Irving is Unnerving,” “The Unoriginal John Darby,” “Catholics Did NOT Invent the Rapture,” “The Real Manuel Lacunza,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy,” “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Famous Rapture Watchers,” and “Morgan Edwards’ Rapture View” – most by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (the most accurate and documented book on pretrib rapture history which is obtainable by calling 800.643.4645).
PS – For some final shocks Google “The Background Obama Can’t Cover Up.”



report abuse
 

Post a Comment

By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.



Previous Posts

More Blogs To Enjoy!
Thank you for visiting this page. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here are some other blogs you may also enjoy: Top Religious News Most Recent Inspiration Post Happy Reading!

posted 6:00:22pm Apr. 20, 2012 | read full post »

Good Bye
Today is my last day at Beliefnet (which I co-founded in 1999). The swirling emotions: sadness, relief, love, humility, pride, anxiety. But mostly deep, deep gratitude. How many people get to come up with an idea and have rich people invest money to make it a reality? How many people get to create

posted 8:37:24am Nov. 20, 2009 | read full post »

"Steven Waldman Named To Lead Commission Effort on Future of Media In a Changing Technological Landscape" (FCC Press Release)
STEVEN WALDMAN NAMED TO LEAD COMMISSION EFFORT ON FUTURE OF MEDIA IN A CHANGING TECHNOLOGICAL LANDSCAPE FCC chairman Julius Genachowski announced today the appointment of Steven Waldman, a highly respected internet entrepreneur and journalist, to lead an agency-wide initiative to assess the state o

posted 11:46:42am Oct. 29, 2009 | read full post »

My Big News
Dear Readers, This is the most difficult (and surreal) post I've had to write. I'm leaving Beliefnet, the company I co-founded in 1999. In mid November, I'll be stepping down as President and Editor in Chief to lead a project on the future of the media for the Federal Communications Commission, the

posted 1:10:11pm Oct. 28, 2009 | read full post »

"Beliefnet Co-Founder and Editor-in-Chief Steps Down to Lead FCC Future of the Media Initiative" (Beliefnet Press Release)
October 28, 2009 BELIEFNET CO-FOUNDER AND EDITOR-IN-CHIEF STEPS DOWN TO LEAD FCC FUTURE OF THE MEDIA INITIATIVE New York, NY - October 28, 2009 - Beliefnet, the leading online community for inspiration and faith, announced today that Steven Waldman, co-founder, president and editor-in-chief, will re

posted 1:05:43pm Oct. 28, 2009 | read full post »




Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.