Steven Waldman

Steven Waldman


Did Obama Order George Tiller’s Murder?

posted by swaldman

I’m wary of drawing too many lessons from anonymous message board comments. One could certainly pluck comments from Beliefnet’s boards to prove that we harbor either right wing or left wing extremists.
But it’s worth perusing the message boards of FreeRepublic, a conservative community, to gauge the general mood of the most hardcore conservatives.
First, quite a few people are saying that murder is wrong, no matter how evil the victim was.

SnakeDoc
Thou Shalt Not Murder. Both the shooter and the victim will be judged.
Patriot preacher
Pro-lifers should condemn this as antithetical to their philosophy and beliefs. Hopefully, the perpetrator will be apprehended and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I will shed no tears that Teller is gone — but MURDER is MURDER.

Then a large group is making a more practical argument that this was bad because it will backfire. In fact, a startling large number believe Tiller was murdered by Obama or pro-choice allies in order to justify a crackdown on guns or civil liberties:

upchuck
This serial-killer piece of excrement will be held up by every abortionist and every lover of abortionists as the reason why the Secret Service needs to be assigned to guard every abortionist,every abortion mill and every lover of abortions in this country.
gridlock:
Obama is going to take advantage of this murder to sieze even more control over our society. I would not even put it past them to commit this murder themselves, as an excuse to sieze power. Reichstag Fire, and all that…
jazminerose
Will form the rationalization for really stomping on pro life groups. Was it one of BO’s storm troopers who pulled the trigger?

Then there’s a large number of people who flat-out applaud the killing. I’m going to print a lot of them because it’s really unfair to pluck a few extreme quotes off any websites message boards. What’s amazing is the sheer volulme of people thinking this way:

imahawk:
One less nazi as far as I am concerned.
Turret Gunner A20
Hope the guy gets away….Do you think that it would have been murder to assignate Hitler? And don’t say that the question has no relevance — this crud was a leading the killer-of-innocents criminal thugs that has already killed throughout the world far more innocents that Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined. His killer did a great service when noone else would do it.
calico_thompson
Well, at least the perp didn’t rip his arms and legs off and then suck his brains out.

Gaffer
No doubt this ‘man’ is responsible for thousands, maybe tens-of-thousands of needless and wanton deaths. If you think his ‘passing’ is a bad thing in the cause of speaking out and ending the practice of abortion, I don’t know what to tell you. I can only say that I shall not mourn his demise, nor shall I judge others.
TheDuke:
But, wasn’t this just another late term abortion(?)
Slump Tester
It’s too bad the suspect didn’t poke a roto rooter through his skull and then suck him into a vacuum cleaner instead of just shooting the bastard.
SampleMan:
Whether he will be judged as a murderer by God may be an open question, and none of us know the answer. In 1942 Reinhard Heydrich was killed in Prague in cold blood. Czech commandos committed what was by the law of the land murder. They were from a country that had surrendered and they were not in uniform. They did this because he was orchestrating the destruction of the Czech people. Did they kill a tyrant or commit murder or both? There is also the case of course of John Brown and slavery. Yes we must obey our laws, until we can no longer live with the result of not obeying them.
babygene
killing to prevent a serial killer from claiming his next victim probably doesn’t fit into the category of murder…
Cheetahcat
Nothing to see here just his last abortion this one many trimesters Post Birth.
Ahithophel
He will till no more in the bloody garden of evisceration.
UnwashedPeasant
What kind of “church” was this? The Wright kind?
steve86
I guess the allies should not have killed a single Nazi soldier in WWII?
eccentric
It is not murder to kill someone to save someone else’s life.
353FMG
The shooter had to kill in order to save the lives of numerous future children. If the shooter is considered a murderer, then so are our brave soldiers. They (the soldiers) have to kill in order to save our lives from the constant threat of terrorism.
mrsmel
It’s too bad, when murderers on the left who really did target innocent people are rewarded and lauded. This man Tiller was responsible for the horrific deaths of thousands of innocent babies, and we are supposed to be shame-faced that someone stopped him in his tracks from jabbing scissors into yet another babies’ head and sucking their life out.
and from another thread:
Canedawg
i wouldnt feel too badly if some of the communists in our govt met a similar fate. That doesnt mean i am about to go around killing anyone, but if someone else does the deed, i wont be crying over the tainted blood of treasonous actors and infanticiders.
Glenn
How about rejoicing for all the children this “Doctor” will not murder now?
Flintlock
I tried to get upset about this.
I failed.
My bad, I guess.
stockpirate
God BLESS the man that killed Tiller.
It is time the left started to feel the wrath of conservatives.
There is a time for peace and a time for war.
Jesus said I came not to bring peace but a sword.
Those who beat their swords into plows will plow for those who do not.
A people unwilling to use extreme violence to preserve their liberty deserve the tyrants that rule them.
The two phrases are written over the doors of the Justice Department in DC, “Repression breeds violence” and “Where justice ends, tyranny begins”
Certainly the unborn are suffering under the boot of tyranny and are being repressed by the ungodly.
Rightous men have an obligation to change the wanton murder of the unborn.
A nation that allows the murder of the unborn deserves God’s harsh judgement.
and this thread:
Lexington Green
What goes around…
newfreep
Whatever “church” Tiller attends must be worshipping satan.
IDRATHERNOT
Tiller Shot & Killed? Thousands of unborn children claim self defense.
wardaddy
he reaped what he’s sowed same as anyone so evil
Sloth
*shrug* Genocide has consequences.
The Sons of Liberty
Shooting was too good for him. Too bad his body wasn’t torn to pieces like his victims.
May he burn in hell for eternity.
wardaddy
This guy wa a monster period.
Did you cry when Dahmer got killed in the joint?
Would you worry about Manson?
nothing personal but ya’ll are soft as butter.
I make no apologies whatsoever, folks here will be ill prepared for where we’re headed.
whatisthetruth
I’m only surprised this didn’t happen sooner, couldn’t have happened to a better man, IMO.
P-Marlowe
If you TRULY believe that Abortion is murder, then you cannot condemn anyone who would do anything to stop this mass murderer from continuing in his crimes. This is where the rubber meets the road. If you call abortion murder, then this was justifiable homicide. If abortion is not murder, then Tiller was the victim of a heinous crime and his killer should be condemned.
mjp
Sometimes retaliatory force is necessary to stop initiation of force by those who are violating natural rights. Preservation of life and natural rights of the innocent is a natural duty that God requires.
tips up
If the killer just put scissors into his skull, it would be considered a late term abortion (60+ years late) and he would be a hero of the left, rather than a domestic terrorist.
gscc
I suppose if Hitler had been assassinated there would have been many “good” Germans who would have looked at the assassin as a “crazy”. Let’s face it – this country has lost it’s soul. We live in a post-Judeo-Christian nation and it will only go down hill from here. There will certainly be many “good” Americans that lament the passing of this evil man. With a federal government, press and apostate “church” firmly entrenched in liberal secular theology we are witnessing the end of the founder’s America.
MichiganConservative
It’s abortion in the 272nd tri-mester (ROTFLMAO)
Post-extraction lead-induced termination.



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Demindc

posted June 1, 2009 at 11:16 am


It’s really sad that some people would post comments so vicious. We need to pray for them.



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Altscribe

posted June 1, 2009 at 6:45 pm


The war against Religious Fundamentalist Terrorism must be enlarged to include those in America who are so indoctrinated, so irrational, and so amoral in their “religious beliefs” that they can rationalize any crime.
Murder, bombings, terroristic threats are the repeated tools of these groups who think they are under orders from “god” to force their extreme, irrational beliefs on everyone else.
And Randall Terry says murder is just fine, while claiming to condemn murder…
These folks need to be picked up and sent to Guantanamo with the other “religious” terrorists. Only then will the rational, law abiding citizens in this Nation be safe from their savage violence.



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Alexa

posted June 1, 2009 at 7:36 pm


So much blood on the hands of organized religion — I ask myself, what would Jesus, lover of peace, preacher of equality and respecter of women — think?
“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”



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Charles Cosimano

posted June 1, 2009 at 7:37 pm


It could be worse. At least no one has advocated bombing Christian day care centers in retaliation.
Of the making of crazy people there seems no end.



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Tim

posted June 2, 2009 at 7:32 am


I see no point in your giving any further attention to these hateful people. Let them stew in their own perverse dungeons; why invite them in here? The very title of this blog post sickens me. It’s bad enough that you would repeat a stupid, paranoid idea like this one, but to make it your headline? Don’t you know you are lending credibility to it? This is really irresponsible of you. Worse, it’s cheap.



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Panthera

posted June 2, 2009 at 8:49 am


MamaS,
Thank you for posting.
Churchmouse, Blue Collar Todd and all the other apologists:
Hope you took the time to read her comment.
It is precisely for this reason that we are frightened of you and your movement.
Precisely because of people like her, we on the left are furious with your actions.
No, MamaS, it was not an execution – it was murder. And you are a major part of the problem.



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Husband

posted June 2, 2009 at 10:07 am


“it’s worth perusing the message boards of FreeRepublic”
I think you are wrong Steve. It is hardly ever “worth” perusing hate sites. We already know what they believe – they shove it in our faces every day.
I ‘perused’ their Canadian equivalent, FreeDominion, and within 3 days, I personally received a death threat in my e-mail from one of their regulars. It is their modus operandi and it is nothing more, less or other than domestic terrorism.
They want us to fear them so they can have their way.
Nuts to that, say I.



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Julie

posted June 6, 2009 at 9:43 am


Steve – did you actually read and comprehend the very comments that you’ve quoted? Most of them don’t prove your point, and many do the contrary. Are you so bought in to the idea of a “hateful right-wing” that you insert your own log into your own eye?
The trend, and details of these comments, seem to be that these people are not happy that Tiller was murdered, but also not willing to forget his activities prior to his murder. Seems pretty reasonable.
So, what exactly do you object to?
I’ll be happy to go over each quote with you for meaning, but I suspect you don’t really want to do that.



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wolfcreek

posted June 6, 2009 at 9:45 am


One for the *list*;
Wolfcerek: 6.6.2009:
There was a *vigil* held here in the Austin area for Doctor Tiller. *Mourners* gathered to pay respect and homage to their departed *hero* of women’s rights.
One attendee said, Tiller believed it was a sin to use scientific method to find problems with a woman’s pregnancy and not use medical science to rid her of the unhealthy/deformed/un-perfect fetus.”
These people actually worship men such as Tiller. Gotta wonder what will happen to their souls.
To Alexia. Wonder what Jesus would of thought about mothers killing their own children? Hmmm?



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Patriot

posted June 6, 2009 at 10:11 am


Dr. Tiller participated in the vile, heinous killings of fully formed fetuses, some just weeks away from their natural birthday.
If you, Steve, want to ignore that, go ahead at your own peril.
Those of us who are disgusted by what he did see no reason to be sorry that he is no longer able to do it. To think otherwise would be hypocritical, wouldn’t it?



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P-Marlowe

posted June 6, 2009 at 10:25 am


There were a total of 56,000 human beings exterminated at Buchenwald. If you believe that a fetus with hands and feet and a beating heart is a human being, then by his own statements George Tiller exterminated 60,000 human beings in his clinic in Wichita. I suppose you would like it if people like me were all teary-eyed and choked up over Tiller’s execution?
I don’t know whether or not his killer was a Christian or just a fed up human being who was appalled by the slaughter of the innocents. I do know, however, that I will be praying that he is acquitted of any murder charges. I suppose there are a lot of Christians who can’t wait for Tiller’s killer to receive the same treatment that Tiller gave to the 60,000 innocent human beings that Tiller sent to their graves.



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abishai

posted June 6, 2009 at 10:42 am


“It’s really unfair to pluck a few extreme quotes off any websites message boards.”
This is your standard. Yet you you take 37 quotes from a website with 300,000 registered members to paint them as vicious crazy nuts. You are being either inconsistent or unfair.
“I’m wary of drawing too many lessons from anonymous message board comments.”
I don’t believe you.
“One could certainly pluck comments from Beliefnet’s boards to prove that we harbor either right wing or left wing extremists.”
And Steven Waldman just plucked comments to label FreeRepublic as a bad website.
Since this is only one article of yours I will refrain judgment on whether I think you have an agenda or not.
“A double minded man is unstable in all his ways….”



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bdeaner

posted June 6, 2009 at 11:29 am

Joe

posted June 6, 2009 at 11:35 am


“This is your standard. Yet you you take 37 quotes from a website with 300,000 registered members to paint them as vicious crazy nuts. You are being either inconsistent or unfair.”
I used to be a Freeper. That is EXACTLY, with scant few exceptions and they are considered liberal wussies, what that entire site is filled with. Vile, small and bitter people who think they are world-beaters from behind their keyboards.
That entire site is horrendous, from the format, to how it’s run, to the fact that blatant and open racism is allowed, to out and out fascism. You don’t have to dig far to find someone asking for liberals to be rounded up, or that liberalism is a mental disease, etc.
And better yet, there is no way a site that crappy in format and appearance needs nearly $320,000 PER QUARTER to operate. The management there claims if people were “monthly donors” the “FReepathons” would go away, but that would put a serious crimp in the checkbook if the marks weren’t giving in the FReepathon as well.
Free Republic is anything but. After spending nearly 4 full years posting there I found myself to be more conservative both in my views AND my actions than about 98% of the membership there. The site is full of internet whack-a-doos and one-percenters.



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Zakeet

posted June 6, 2009 at 11:43 am


Steve,
I don’t agree with all of the comments on FreeRepublic any more than I do on any other open forum. However, over the past decade or so, I have found most “Freepers” to be intelligent, thoughtful, kind, and Christian.
I am not sure on what basis you can claim they represent “the general mood of the most hardcore conservatives.”
Additionally, you should consider the fact that more than 100 babies were not killed last week because Dr. Tiller’s clinic was closed. Another 100 babies live this week, and another 100 babies will be alive the at the end of the next. And let us not forget that the number of doctors who murder babies in their third trimester decreased by one third this week.
In other words, I don’t see things as “black and white” as you apparently do — and I recommend you be a little more “wary of drawing too many lessons from anonymous message board comments.”



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markomalley

posted June 7, 2009 at 12:28 pm


Murder is wrong, whether committed illegally by the man who killed Tiller or the 60,000 murdered in cold blood *by* Tiller.
Have I prayed for Tiller’s soul? Yes. But I also prayed for Saddam Hussein’s soul, Idi Amin’s soul, Joseph Mengele’s soul, and Timothy McVeigh’s soul. Why? Because I hope that everybody has a chance to repent and plead for God’s mercy before they die.
My only regret here is that our judicial system is such that the only way to prevent additional slaughter of human life by this butcher was through an immoral means.
Yes, a great good happened here: no more babies will be slaughtered at the hands of this butcher. However, it is always immoral to use immoral means to achieve a good goal. (i.e., I doubt many FReepers or any other pro-life “extremists” would have said, “I wish I would have done it myself.”
And, Altscribe, as far as your war…bring it on, baby…bring it on.



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Leonard Schwenk

posted June 7, 2009 at 11:27 pm


Free Republic is easily the most vile website on the net. I hope the leader over there, the insane Jim Robinson, is happy with advancing misinformation (Polarik, Beckwith, Pissant . . .), bigotry, cowardice and flat-out nonsense minute by minute.
Why is the Republican party disintegrating? Spend two minutes at http://www.freerepublic.com and you’ll see why.



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BF

posted June 8, 2009 at 9:12 am


“And better yet, there is no way a site that crappy in format and appearance needs nearly $320,000 PER QUARTER to operate.”
You are being misleading, Joe. It’s 80,000 per qtr.
A break-down is here: https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/budget
(Were you banned?)
I lurk on FR. For the most part, Leonard, FReepers are true-blue everyday Americans who just want to live their lives in freedom and liberty. Some of the most intelligent and thinking people around post on FR.
You will find extreme posts at every site that allows reader comments, including FreeRepublic, DailyKos, DemocraticUnderground, Lucianne, and Beliefnet. You can’t paint all the users with the broad brush.



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A brother

posted June 8, 2009 at 9:23 am


> “Why is the Republican party disintegrating? Spend two minutes at http://www.freerepublic.com and you’ll see why.”
I agree completely. As a longtime “freeper” I have come to the conclusion that Jim Robinson is driven by greed and has become the tool of anti-Christians (the sons of Satan) who want war and the destruction, poverty, and disease that it brings.
Christians will eventually prevail against abortion. The hearts of the people will be opened by the facts and reality of the whole issue. It is anti-Christian to setback the cause by resorting to immoral means or encouraging such acts by others.



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Suman

posted June 8, 2009 at 12:26 pm


Another ex-Freeper here. I left in 2001 when FR turned on a dime into an anti-Arab, anti-Muslim hate site. In 2009 it seems to encourage hate against anyone who is not a heterosexual white Christian male who subscribes to far right, pro-torture orthodoxy.
FR would have been an invaluable tool for the Nazi Party.



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BF

posted June 8, 2009 at 2:29 pm


“And better yet, there is no way a site that crappy in format and appearance needs nearly $320,000 PER QUARTER to operate.”
You’ve mis-spoke, Joe. It’s around $80,000 a qtr.
There are a few nuts over there just like there are nuts associated with most public sites/blogs, including this one. I’ve been a poster at FreeRepublic since 1999. Just like with anything else on the internet….I take what I need and leave the rest.



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Sasquatch

posted June 8, 2009 at 8:26 pm


What an ugly interface. $80k/month to run that site? Anyone who believes that is a moron.



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Jomama

posted June 8, 2009 at 9:45 pm


Freepers are truly deranged, it once had promise, but all the smart people were driven out by its maniac in chief, Jim Robinson.
All that is left are the ignorant, the extremists and the truly hateful people (in God’s name of course)
The sooner that site dies, the better



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Richard

posted June 11, 2009 at 11:46 am


I have been to the FR site and was amazed at the amount of hate and anger that was expressed there. To be honest I think they are all a bunch of crazy extreemists. I can’t see how anyone who calls themself a Christian–or even a decent human being for that matter– can belong to that site.
I personally am against late term abortions but I found it appalling that Dr Tiller was murdered and I find it shameful that there are those who justify it and even applaud it. They say that Tiller was a killer and deserved to die. Well I think that George W. Bush was responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens. Does that give me the right to kill him? Of course not.



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George

posted June 13, 2009 at 1:50 pm


I got banned today from FR for saying that racism is not a conservative value.



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Joe

posted June 14, 2009 at 6:43 pm


Yep I misspoke, sorry about that.
I’m amazed the FR hit men haven’t come to quiet me down like they did to the Clown Posse for questioning the Proud Patriots.



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SuzyQue

posted June 14, 2009 at 9:32 pm


George, honey, you need to learn how to tell the truth. It, um, beggars belief, when you create lies to impugn the character of the someone else. In fact, I think one of the 10 Commandments is an injunction to NOT do exactly that.
Here’s the real story:
“To: SuzyQue
Yup. A troll registered an account here and tried to post the following personal attack:
“And you are a racist, ignorant bigot!”
To this thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/755337/posts
The moderator zotted him.
I later received an email complaint that he was banned for protesting racism on FR and that our members are racists and provoke hatred towards Arabs and he demanded his account be deleted.
Probably the same guy.
Oh, well. Can’t win them all.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2266127/posts?page=571#571



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George

posted June 15, 2009 at 11:50 pm


Whatever. That link you posted is 7 years old and does not discredit my point, which is that I was banned just the other day for saying that racism is not a conservative value.



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SuzyQue

posted June 16, 2009 at 7:38 pm


What’s up with you, George? The link I posted is from this past Sunday. Is it a problem with math or with veracity?
And, yes, George, it does resoundingly refute your point.



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George

posted June 18, 2009 at 2:19 am


Then why was I banned today (on a different computer, using a different screenname, posting from the library) for saying that anti-black, sexist, and homophobic rhetoric on FR was getting out of hand?



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SuzyQue

posted June 18, 2009 at 8:56 pm


George, I have no idea why you were banned, but it does seem to be a regular occurrence for you.
However, it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand or your prior assertions.
Dude – you make things up and then accuse people of doing them. Not sure what you are trying to do, nor why, but what you are NOT doing is having a coherent, concise exchange of information and opinion, using facts to back up your assertions.



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Josh

posted June 21, 2009 at 8:43 pm


I was banned today at FR for saying that the group’s comparison of Michelle Obama to a gorilla is racist.



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