Steven Waldman

Steven Waldman


Rick Warren’s Dark Night of the Soul

posted by swaldman

Rick Warren is keeping a list, and checking it often. He’ll have to memorize it because he can’t count on having his Blackberry when he needs this list most. This is Rick Warren’s list of questions for God.
In the course of a fascinating conversation last week with Beliefnet and our partner The Wall Street Journal — click here for video of the full interview and here for a transcript – Warren was stunningly candid about having doubts, even “dark nights of the soul.”

“Oh absolutely. All the time.”
“What do you mean ‘all the time’?”
“I’ve never doubted God. But I’ve doubted why God does certain things….”.

There are parts of the Bible, for instance, that he doesn’t get — “slaughters in the Bible and rules that don’t seem to make sense and things that just don’t seem to me, to be logical.”
“And I still have doubts, I mean, I read the Bible and go ‘whoa, why did God say that?’”
He concludes that these passages are mystifying because he just doesn’t have “the brain capacity” to understand God — but he is eager to ask Him a few questions at the appropriate moment.
One is why He gave humans the ability to have babies before they’re ready to raise them. He also wants to know how prayer works – why God answers some prayers right away and not others. “The truth is, that the vast majority of our prayers, we don’t see those kinds of miracles.”
But his number one question, he says, is about suffering: “I know why there’s evil in the world, I don’t understand why so much suffering happens to so many innocent people.”
I don’t want to give the impression Warren has lost faith. Quite the opposite. Most of our talk was devoted to his absolute conviction that the real “purpose of Christmas” is understanding, treasuring and opening the gift of grace – the idea that Jesus said In effect, “I’ve paid for everything you need to get into Heaven. I’ve paid your ticket….. That’s the gift.” (Watch him talk about “the gift”)
He offered an inspiring message about the purpose of Christmas (the topic of his new book) and some special devotionals for Beliefnet viewers.
He also dove headlong into some of the most controversial culture war issues, in ways likely to surprise and perhaps enrage some on the left and right.
Most Likely to Infuriate Liberals:

  • Gay marriage is morally equivalent to allowing brothers and sisters to marry. Watch.
  • He opposes torture but didn’t try to convince President Bush to change course because “I never had the opportunity.” Watch.
  • A possibly veiled slap at Islam: “He could have made us all puppets. … He could have put us on strings and we’d pray five times a day and we’d have no choice.” Watch.
  • “Abortion reduction” efforts are mostly a “charade.” Watch.
  • His historical argument that “social gospel” Protestantism was “just Marxism in Christian clothing” and that “the mainline [Protestants] died.” Watch.

Most Likely to Infuriate Conservatives:

  • He supports partnership rights for gays including insurance and visitation benefits. This appears to be a similar position to that which just prompted the resignation of a top official of the National Association of Evangelicals. Watch.
  • His declaration that it’s a “no brainer” that divorce is a bigger threat to the American family than gay marriage, and that Christian leaders focus on gay marriage instead because “we always love to talk about other people’s sins.” Watch.
  • Religious conservatives have misled people into thinking Christ’s message was primarily about conservative politics and that politics is the primary way to change culture. Watch.
  • The Bush administration seems to have engaged in torture, which he condemned. Watch.
  • While condemning abortion as a Holocaust and abortion reduction as a “charade” he nonetheless said he would support those efforts, which he equated to Schindler’s list — a way of reducing the harm of an overall evil. Watch.

Most Likely to Titillate Theologians:

  • While your behavior doesn’t determine whether you get into heaven, it does determine what you do once you’re there. Watch.
  • His statement that “I really don’t know” whether people who don’t know about Christ will be blocked entry into heaven. Watch.
  • “God’s will is not done most of the time on earth. When people go, ‘oh, that hurricane must have been God’s will’ – baloney!” Watch.

Most Likely to Inspire and Challenge:

  • The story of his daughter in law’s brain tumor and its surprising lesson the family learned. Watch.
  • His relentless commitment to awakening Americans to African poverty. Watch.
  • His personal Christmas prayer. Watch.
  • His argument that the economic collapse comes from abandoning Biblical principles of thrift. Watch.

Moment I’d Most Like To Follow Up About:
Everyone will have their favorites. But for me the most interesting moment was after he described the gift of grace, and I then asked: “Why if he forgives us for murdering or raping would he not forgive us for not believing in Him?” He took his best shot, but I’m not sure he totally nailed it. Watch.
Click here to buy Rick Warren’s new book, The Purpose of Christmas.
Click here to read a transcript of the full interview.
Click here to watch video of the full interview.



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Your Name

posted December 12, 2008 at 8:07 pm


This part made this gay liberal laugh: “Most Likely to Infuriate Liberals: Gay marriage is morally equivalent to allowing brothers and sisters to marry”
It’s funny since in the Constitutions of many states it’s simply stated “one man, one woman” – a brother and sister would fit that criteria. Conservatives don’t know what they got us into… LOL!



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LutheranChik

posted December 12, 2008 at 8:42 pm


I’d only be “infuriated” if anything Rick Warren said any any meaningful relevance to my own life or Christian practice.



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Marvin

posted December 13, 2008 at 8:17 am


You quoted Mr Warren as saying “While your behavior doesn’t determine whether you get into heaven, it does determine what you do once you’re there.”
I would like to offer the following from 1Corinthians 6:9-10:
Surely you know that the people who do wrong will not inherit God’s kingdom. Do not be fooled. those who sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, those who are male prostitutes or men who have sexual relations with other men, those who steal, are greedy, get drunk, lie about others, or rob–these people will not inherit God’s kingdom. NCV.
Verses 11-20 makes it clear that it was Christians who were being addressed and the first sentence in verse 18 says “So run away from sexual sin.”
If those are not behaviors preventing people from going to heaven, I’d like you to tell me what these verses are saying.



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Your Name

posted December 13, 2008 at 9:20 am


I have a couple of questions of my own:
1) Why do you and so many in the media reify Rick Warren and give credence to his simplistic theology? Just because the man heads a megachurch doesn’t make him a prophet. Jesus didn’t lead a mega-synagogue.
2) Do you understand how galling it is for gay and lesbian Americans to witness the arrogance of people like Rick Warren and others of the heterosexual Christian majority, doling out rights to the rest of us as if from some moral high ground? Who is Rick Warren to say “civil unions yes, marriage no?” With what authority, civil or religious, does he speak?
I don’t know whom I respect less — Rev. Warren, or you, his shill and flack.



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Your Name

posted December 13, 2008 at 10:05 am


Warren is a moron. Reading this I felt like I was watching some dimwitted youth group leader being interviewed, not one of the most famous ministers in the country. His understanding of the Bible and theology is about as developed as that of the average church going middle school student. He offered one trite, insipid or fallacious response after another.



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Your Name

posted December 13, 2008 at 10:10 am


Arrogance and ignorance combined!
He says he believes in equal rights for all Americans, and then makes an exception for gay citizens.
Then he says (falsely) gay marriage is the equivalent of brother/sister incest (forgot about consanguinity. Mr. Warren?), and yet somehow decries the loss of free speech. Connected to that, he says pastors would lose the ‘right’ to say gay relationships are abnormal (which, in fact, is exactly what he says) when, in fact, what is considered hate speech is when pastors say gays ought to be put to death (a la Jimmy ’2 wh0res’ Swaggart). Calling for harm to others IS hate speech.
He says marriage has always been 1 man/1 woman – even for Muslims – which is demonstrably false (hint: bearing false witness, aka LIEING, is a sin, Mr. Warren).
And on it goes. He’s as phony as Jerry Falsewell.



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DG

posted December 13, 2008 at 10:42 am


I’ve written a comment before on an Rick Warren article you had posted here. Again, I will reiterate my comment. Where is the gospel, Rick? He makes NO mention of the sinner in need of repentant faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior. Rick has gone the “social gospel” route, appeasing CULTURE. The gospel is offensive. “piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit” (Heb.4:12) as God draws the sinner to Himself. “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” 1 Cor. 1:18
Rick’s “gospel” is NO gospel at all.
“And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” Mark 1:15
“And they went out, and preached that men should repent.”Mark 6:12
“As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.” Rev. 3:19
Rick Warren – ashamed of the gospel? Seems so.
“For I am NOT ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” Romans 1:16
AND–>”Be NOT thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God” 2 Tim.1:8



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Your Name

posted December 13, 2008 at 3:42 pm


“God’s will is not done most of the time on earth. When people go, ‘oh, that hurricane must have been God’s will’ – baloney
The LORD works out everything for his own ends— even the wicked for a day of disaster. (Proverbs 16:5)
Fear the LORD and the king, my son, and do not join with the rebellious, for those two will send sudden destruction upon them, and who knows what calamities they can bring? (Proverbs 24:21-22)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7)
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. (Matthew 10:29)
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will. (Ephesians 1:11)
Maybe Rick Warren would be better off shutting his mouth long enough to actually read the Bible he so oftens twists out of any recognizable shape.



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Brian

posted December 13, 2008 at 4:22 pm


I like Rick Warren, he has the guts to answer tough controversial questions we all struggle with. I for one appreciate his insight.



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Your Name

posted December 13, 2008 at 5:56 pm


Brian,
Warren didn’t “answer” any controversial questions; he stated his opinion. And his opinion turns out to be at odds with the Constitution. Imagine that!



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Your Name

posted December 13, 2008 at 6:02 pm


Hmmm, I just read B’net’s Mission at the bottom of the page:
“About Beliefnet
Our mission is to help people like you find, and walk, a spiritual path that will bring comfort, hope, clarity, strength, and happiness.”
Steve, as head honcho here at B’net, have you ever considered that what Crunchy Con allows (encourages) to be said about gay people to be at odds with your mission? Ditto for Warren’s comments. Their atithetical to your mission.
(Sorry, didn’t know where else to post this question, but I (and most other gay or gay-supportive people) do not find “comfort, hope, strength or happiness” in being called a “cancer”, the equivalent of “marrying a plant” or an animal or an inanimte object, etc. But boy, it sure is “clear” what they think of us.)



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Tolerance Police

posted December 14, 2008 at 1:37 am


Boy, I never cease to find it amazing that the pro-homosexual community demand tolerance, but then, as we see in these comments, they seem to be violently INTOLERANT of others.
I mean, isn’t the pro-gay mantra “We can do and say and believe what we want, and NO ONE can say it’s wrong”? But yet, it seems like they NEVER extend that same mindset to others.
I mean, if you were consistent, wouldn’t you just say about Rick Warren, “He’s free to believe whatever he wants to, and no one should say it’s wrong”
When you bash him (ps: I’m not a Warren supporter by any means, I believe the bible), aren’t you in effect saying, “We think it’s OK to criticize someone else’s beliefs and actions, so feel free to criticize ours”
Let’s see some truth here – is it OK to criticize others’ lifestyles and beliefs, or isn’t it? Please let me know so I don’t have the “tolerant” pro-gay community chase me out of town with pitchforks, like just happened recently.



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Julie

posted December 14, 2008 at 2:28 am


This liberal does take great exception to Warren’s statements about the mainline churches, such as the Methodist Church. He is completely wrong about social gospel being the only focus of the United Methodist Church.
“His historical argument that “social gospel” Protestantism was “just Marxism in Christian clothing” and that “the mainline [Protestants] died.”
I wonder if Warren ever told George W Bush that he belongs to a Marxist church? Bush’s United Methodist Church took great exception to his Iraq war and they told him. They told members to tell Bush that United Methodist do not torture. Why didn’t Warren tell Bush that torture was wrong. I believe it is every Christian’s obligation to speak out against injustice.
Jim Winkler, top executive of the United Methodist Board of Church and Society, suggests that clergy or lay leaders might be “held accountable” in the life to come for not speaking out against the war in this life. Winkler also called for Bush and Cheney’s impeachment in 2006.
From Wikipedia
The United Methodist Church is the largest Methodist denomination, and the second largest Protestant denomination, in the United States. Like all mainline denominations, it has evangelical elements. In the United States, it ranks as the largest mainline church, second largest Protestant church (after the Southern Baptist Convention), and third largest Christian Church overall. In as of 2007 worldwide membership was about 12 million members: 8.0 million in the United States, 3.5 million in Africa, Asia and Europe.[7] It is a member church of the World Council of Churches, the World Methodist Council, and other religious associations. It remains the only Christian denomination or body to have congregations in every county or parish in the United States
Warren’s “Confusing Gift of Grace” I had read that Baptist believed that once someone was “saved” they were always saved. I had never heard a Protestant description of different levels of heaven.
I believe that if a person believes in Jesus the person strives to be like Jesus. I do not believe they can say, “I am saved” and commit murder, lie, steal and still go to heaven. I also believe God calls every one of us to help the less fortunate.
Marvin’s reference to I Corinthians 6:9
Prior to the 1946 Edition of the Revised Standard Version the word “homosexual” did not appear in the Bible. The word “homosexual” was used to replace boy prostitutes, effeminate, those who make women of themselves, sissies, the self-indulgent, sodomites, lewd persons, male prostitutes, and the unchaste
http://tinyurl.com/63493z
The Bible Is An Empty Closet
http://tinyurl.com/5ws6ac
Hopefully within a few years, homosexuals will finally gain the acceptance they deserve. The younger generations are much more accepting of differences in people. The Jesus I know would never treat homosexuals the way a large number of religious people treat homosexuals. God does not make inferior people.



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Your Name

posted December 14, 2008 at 9:48 am


Dear “Tolerance” Police,
Mr. Warren is “free to believe whatever he wants”. I merely pointed out that ‘what he wants’ is UN-Constitutional.
Big difference.
And how that is “violently INTOLERANT” I do not understand, so perhaps you could enlighten us all.
I have pointed out the “violently INTOLERANT” rants against God’s gay and lesbian children that are allowed (encouraged) here on B’net. How would you like your relationships, your very being, compared to “cancer”, “Satan’s minions”, “Sons of Molech”, “marrying a plant”, “marrying an animal”, child-molestation, beastiality, necrophilia, etc., etc., etc.? How would you like your right to equal treatment before the law put to a popular vote? How would you like being forbidden to see your spouse in the hospital? How would you like having your children taken away from you?
ALL of these things are a test of the “Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself” Golden Rule, which is, per the Bible “the sum of the laws and the prophets”.
You ask a very important question: “isn’t the pro-gay mantra “We can do and say and believe what we want, and NO ONE can say it’s wrong”?”
And the answer is, “NO!” If anything, our mantra is “Treat us equally before the law.” It’s what the Constitution “guarantees”.
And, although I’m not sure what you think our “lifestyle” is, mine consists pretty much of the exact same things as your “lifestyle” does, namely work, paying taxes and bills, volunteering in the community, attending and volunteering at Church, taking out the garbage, doing the dishes, shovelling the snow in winter, cutting the grass in summer, visiting friends and relatives, gardening, taking care of the dog, conversing with my husband, blogging on B’net, reading the newspaper, watching TV, shopping, etc. Pretty ‘scary’ stuff, I guess. So yeah, go ahead and “criticize” it, even though I’ve never criticized yours (the “do unto others” thing).



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Your Name

posted December 14, 2008 at 9:50 am


Hmmm, you were recently chased out of town by people with pitchforks and you say “Let’s have some truth here”???
LAFF!



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Bob

posted December 15, 2008 at 9:44 am


Steve,
It’s interesting the way you framed the question about how can God forgive murder, etc, but not forgive unbelief.. In the vidclip w/ that question, I think Warren DID in fact nail it. He gave you a good answer, and you ignored it, and asked the same question again.
What the Rev said in the beginning of the clip is the same thing John Paul II has said, and before him St Catherine of Siena. It’s also found officially spelled out in the Catechism. Hell is a a self-chosen exile, the result of a heart so cold and hardened that even if given one last chance be with God eternally, they’ll reject the idea, because they are made so uncomfortable — and in fact tormented — by the idea of being loved.
I think it’s also interesting to note how Warren says that no one dies perfect, but at the same time Heaven is full of perfect people. A bit of a contradiction there, unless you incorporate the doctrine of Purgatory, which as a Protestant he wouldn’t.
That’s the disheartening aspect of it for me. Catholics and Orthodox have been wrestling with and refining these ideas for 2000 yrs, while every time a new Protestant church is founded in someone’s living room, those poor souls have to try to figure it all out on their own from the very beginning. Seems like such a missed opportunity…



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Tom

posted December 15, 2008 at 10:26 am


“What the Rev said in the beginning of the clip is the same thing John Paul II has said, and before him St Catherine of Siena. It’s also found officially spelled out in the Catechism. Hell is a a self-chosen exile, the result of a heart so cold and hardened that even if given one last chance be with God eternally, they’ll reject the idea, because they are made so uncomfortable — and in fact tormented — by the idea of being loved.”
Are you kidding? Do you think most people who reject theism do so because they can’t accept love? Has it ever occurred to you that some people just don’t think the idea of God makes any sense, at least as traditionally formulated?



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Your Name

posted December 15, 2008 at 10:30 am


“What the Rev said in the beginning of the clip is the same thing John Paul II has said, and before him St Catherine of Siena. It’s also found officially spelled out in the Catechism. Hell is a a self-chosen exile, the result of a heart so cold and hardened that even if given one last chance be with God eternally, they’ll reject the idea, because they are made so uncomfortable — and in fact tormented — by the idea of being loved.”
Are you kidding? Do you think most people who reject theism do so because they can’t accept love? Has it ever occurred to you that some people just don’t think that the idea of God makes any sense, at least as traditionally formulated by most Catholics and Protestants? Warren’s answer, and answers like yours, just add fuel to the fire of unbelief because they are logically and rationally bankrupt.



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lilybart

posted December 15, 2008 at 10:59 am


Rick, the reason god gave people the ability to have babies before they can care for them is because GOD didn’t plan this.
Evolution did. And modern life has made it more sensible for people to wait to have children. In the olden days people didn’t live long, married at puberty and the community helped everyone with child care.
Culture has evolved faster than species evolution.
And prayers are not answered because the creator does not micro-manage.



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frgough

posted December 15, 2008 at 3:43 pm


The fact that people may have babies before they are ready to raise them is a social issue, not a biological one. When no one expects you to be an adult at the age of 16, you won’t be. Period.
As far as innocent people suffering, all that shows is that Warren considers the afterlife an abstract concept.
Torture is bad news. Waterboarding is not torture Sleep deprivation is not torture. Burning your face with acid is torture. People understood this until liberals came along and played their propaganda game to try and confuse them.
Too many conservative christians try to change the world instead of the individual. It’s a problem with their faith. By denying the importance of good works in religious faith, they rob themselves of the very tool they require to redeem society.



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Mordred08

posted December 15, 2008 at 11:29 pm


Tolerance Police:
Let’s see some truth here – is it OK to criticize others’ lifestyles and beliefs, or isn’t it? Please let me know so I don’t have the “tolerant” pro-gay community chase me out of town with pitchforks, like just happened recently.
My response: Do you have evidence for this claim? A newspaper article, camera footage, something? Or are we supposed to take your word on this?



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Radish

posted December 16, 2008 at 7:49 am


Two thoughts.
First, there are no innocent people – “All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.”
Second, since this is God’s creation, He has the right to do anything to anyone at anytime in anyplace for any reason and does not have to explain Himself to anybody.



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Anonymous

posted December 16, 2008 at 6:00 pm


Oy. It really hurts my anthropological brain when some Christians state that marriage has been defined as “one man and one woman” for the last 5,000 years. Really, now? If you take an intro level anthropology class you’ll soon discover that in over 90% of societies, monogamy is NOT the only accepted form of marriage, so don’t act like it’s always been the “Christian” way (aka, your way) for 5,000 years, or that Christians invented marriage, which is just an outright falsehood.
Also, he says he doesn’t want to redefine marriage, but it has been redefined multiple times in what its role in society is, how the two (or more) people interact with each other, etc., at least in mainstream society. I guess we should go back to wives being the property of their husbands and marriage for purely economical reasons?
Lastly, I just cannot understand, for the life of me, why legalizing gay civil unions and marriage would make one bit of impact on heterosexual unions and marriages, except removing their perceived superiority, which must be their fear. Legalizing it does not mean you have to do it.
There are a million things I could say about his comments on abortion, coming from a pro-choice perspective (especially his comment that nothing, including rape, should come before life), but I really want to point out that if those alleged 40 million victims of his “Holocaust” (I’d be very offended by the comparison if I were Jewish) WERE here, then we’d all be dead. The planet can’t handle the number of people in the world right now, let alone an extra 40 million.
On his theology: I’m really glad I took a class on God, Suffering, and Evil this past semester and had the chance to explore much more intellectually-constructed theologies than his. It gives me hope that I’m not surrounded by people who worship a bully for a God out of fear of retribution instead of love.



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JohnT

posted December 17, 2008 at 9:30 am


If one explores the Bible and the Christian teachings on marriage, then it becomes quite apparent that social rules were set in order to provide stability to our society.
If a person wishes to take a humanistic approach, that fine. This approach as not worked, ever.
Not criticizing others mind you, but pointing out what the Teachings tell us. If you want to embrace the teachings, you can Or if you wish to adjust the teachings to suit the relative truths that contemporary society has tricked upon you it is at your peril.



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Larry A. Collette

posted December 17, 2008 at 9:37 am


17DEC2008
Dear Pastor Warren,
I have read about you and seen you on T.V. I go to Celebrate Recovery and met Pastor John Baker a couple of years ago at Manchester, NH. I was very impressed with the lessons there and have been in C.R. for three years. I just saw some parts of this video; what do you mean that Atheists are more spiritual than Non-Atheists? (or something to that fact). Have a Merry Christmas and a safe joyous New Year’s.



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Justin Allen

posted December 17, 2008 at 1:46 pm


Many Christians or going to hate what I about to say but it is the truth. The world loves their own. Also, you can’t legislate righteousness. Therefore, we as Christians will never win the abortion and gay marriage issues among many more moral issues to come. You should vote for what you want but don’t let it get you down when the world picks what it likes as a whole, just still be a witness for Christ.
On a different subject because of some of those who have posted here, having theological studies with different teachers with their own ambitions and biases made unknown to you don’t make you and expert on the things of God even if you receive a doctorate, but being obedient to the Word of God thru the Holy Sprit is what brings true understanding, revelation, and spiritual growth which anyone in Christ is capable of receiving. God is no respecter of persons.
No man has the market cornered on the things of God except Jesus Christ which is the perfect model for us to follow. Therefore, judging the many pain teachings in the Word of God by what man is doing currently and has done in the history while in the world or even in the church does not justify letting down the standard God has establish according to His holiness.
We humans can justify anything in our eyes but God weights the hearts and intentions of man so be careful little Christian what you teach and how you walk in this life. Lastly, Sinner man, woman, and or child that have understanding come Jesus, He will give to rest for you soul.



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Caroline

posted December 17, 2008 at 10:53 pm


I don’t believe Rick Warren when he says he didn’t confront Bush about torture because he didn’t have the opportunity.
Warren could have written the President a letter on the topic at any time. I think Warren didn’t confront the President about it because he doesn’t care about Muslims. Not very Christlike is he?



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Caroline

posted December 17, 2008 at 10:59 pm


One more thing—I don’t think Rick Warren has known a thing about deep suffering or dark nights of the soul in his life. He knows it on a head level—he’s read about it or watched others go through it—-but Rick Warren is not a “wounded healer” like Christ. I guess that’s why I’m not impressed with him.



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Your Name

posted December 17, 2008 at 11:26 pm


I believe that the American evangelists are all using religion as a springboard for getting rich and not as a means to promote proper Christianity and hence are like any person who sins. Christ has come to the world so that whoever had sinned and repented will have everlasting life. Christ considered homosexuality unacceptable; never condoned divorce – on the contrary, he portrayed marriage as two person , a man and a woman, becoming one body which can’t be separated except by death; God wanted us to fast and pray incessantly in order to confront evil spirits; God praised those who believe without seeing. All these traits are forsaken by all the evangelists in the USA and replaced by greed, self-absorption, self-promoting instead of going by Christ’s saying “whoever wants to be first amongst you should be last” which means humility. I am very disgruntled from all this parading of untrue Christian values and the shaping of the bible as everyone wants it not as it was revealed by Jesus through his disciples.
It’s time to straighten this reality and to go back to the roots of Christianity not as these preachers want it but as God wanted it through his bible. God who sent his only begotten son to die in order for us to have eternal life.



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mishi

posted December 18, 2008 at 12:24 am


“Christ considered homosexuality unacceptable”
Chapter and verse. please?



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Your Name

posted December 18, 2008 at 2:29 am


How about the entire chapter of Matthew 19 where Christ talks about the nature marriage being a man who leaves his mother and marries a woman? How about the fact that Christ used the metaphor of a bride and groom to describe his love for the church. The church is called the “bride of Christ,” the bride he died for. Folks, stop cherry picking the bible of all the “inconvenient” verses. Wouldn’t it be nice if we just didn’t have to bring up all those truths in the bible that rub culture the wrong way? The world wants us to conform truth to our experiences. Any Christian worth his or her “salt” should see it the other way around.



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Your Name

posted December 18, 2008 at 3:09 am


You people amaze me LOL. I just don’t understand. People are so quick to judge others for the work they’re doing and quick to put down others when they disagree on moral rights. That’s what keeps us divided, our own selfishness. You can never understand the life of another person, Never, unless you have walked in their shoes, even then you still will not understand.God has called many people, but only few are choesn to do his work. Rick Warren, is doing what he’s called to do and many other big evangelist. Prosperity comes in many different forms.If preachers are supposed to be leading their sheep on the right path, are not doing so, then they will have to answer to God.That goes the same for the rest of us. It’s not about what others didn’t do, but what did you do.If Rick Warren couldn’t get ahold of the president, then you should have? You then hate Muslims like Rick right? He with out sin cast the first stone!!



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Your Name

posted December 18, 2008 at 7:12 am


Rick Warren, and many of the other evangelist preachers, have a bad habit of telling other people what to do with their lives. You can never know what a person is going through unless you’re living their experience, so how can you have the gall to tell them what to do?
To all preachers: Stop acting like the Pharisees. Keep your “rules” out of my life. Instead, try following Jesus’ example of doing good works and encouraging loving, kind behavior. Who knows? Maybe then you’ll actually start to understand what Jesus’ message of “loving your neighbor” really means!



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M RIOUX

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Toni Star

posted December 18, 2008 at 11:20 am


Rich Warren has done much good promoting the Christian faith but like most Christians, he has views that don’t necessarily reflect other Christians beliefs and ideals.
However, he is doing much to spread the word of God and that’s what we as Christians are supposed to do…
Blessings,



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Jaroslaw

posted December 18, 2008 at 11:35 am


to the first comment at 2:29 am – If you’re trying to say because Jesus didn’t talk about Gay marriage then it is not ok, well Jesus didn’t talk about a lot of things.
And the concept of a Gay personhood did not exist in that time period. Same sex behavior yes, but that is NOT the same thing as a Gay identity. Whether you agree with that or not is another subject (if you’re interested in the Scientific view – check out NewScientist.com – there are pheromone studies (brain scans from Sweden) on there that all but guarantee being Gay is not a choice)….
Anyway, women were just property then despite some very nice verses about them – they couldn’t vote or own anything etc. Slavery was very commonplace as well as concubines etc.
So, if you think nothing changes and all truth is in the Bible, I can’t discuss anything with you because things DO change and while the Bible is a fantastic book, all truth is not there and while were at it, Jesus didn’t pass out Bibles and ask people to read them either because 99% of the people then couldn’t read. He told the disciples to GO TEACH all the nations.



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Elijah A."NatureBoy" Alexander, Jr.

posted December 18, 2008 at 1:50 pm


What Rick is saying is in all of the foregoing is he has a carnal mind. If he didn’t love the comforts of the world in opposition to the teachings of Yeshua (Jesus) in Matthew 6:24-34, 7:1 & 19:29, he would have the comprehension for the cause of all his questions to god.
On my profile are many answers to his questions since I have followed the instructions of Yeshua. Any you don’t find there all one has to do is contact me with them and I will give you them.



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Josh

posted December 18, 2008 at 4:48 pm


Right on Rick….
Waldman you seemed confused and actually, while Rick was pretty convincing and articulate in his reasoning for his positions, you seem to make something out of nothing multiple times.
Answer to your last question: God forgives us through any sin through belief in his Son but He can forgive us of no sin if we willingly turn our backs on the gift of forgiveness through His son’s sacrifice.



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posted December 18, 2008 at 8:29 pm


We are acting like little kids…..are we upset because some of you did not get what you desired? President Obama said he would reach across the asile to others, tht did not necessary agree on everything…..and he is following through on his promises…..no?
What made the gays/lesibians feel they should have favor? You are not the only ones who elected him……we all breathe the same air, we all put our pants on one leg at a time, and we all bleed red…..GET OVER IT, AND FOCUS ON WHAT WE HAVE IN COMMON, INSTEAD OF INSISTING ON BE EXCLUSIVE!!!!
UNITY, ALWAYS,ALWAYS, ALWAYS, WINS!!
BUZZARDSKORNER!!



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Josh

posted December 19, 2008 at 1:15 pm


Justin Allen, I loved your post. I am not sure I understodd all of it, but I got your general idea, and you made some good points. You can’t legislate righteousness in any age, but as a Christian, you still have to do what you can with what God gave you to promote righteousness in yourself and in your community. And part of that is voting, on issues like same-sex marriage or any other. You are correct, just because the “world” doesn’t agree doesn’t mean the historically established standard that we are called to does.



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Non-anonymous

posted December 19, 2008 at 3:20 pm


“Anonymous” wrote: “I really want to point out that if those alleged 40 million victims of his “Holocaust” (I’d be very offended by the comparison if I were Jewish) WERE here, then we’d all be dead. The planet can’t handle the number of people in the world right now, let alone an extra 40 million.
On his theology: I’m really glad I took a class on God, Suffering, and Evil this past semester and had the chance to explore much more intellectually-constructed theologies than his. It gives me hope that I’m not surrounded by people who worship a bully for a God out of fear of retribution instead of love.”
Wow, I am sure you are glad you worship a God of “love” who is ok with the brutal murder of the most innocent among us, just because you argue that you have more right to be here using the planet than they. That sure sounds like love. Darn all those “bulleys” like Rick
Warren who are so filled with hate that they want to speak up for and protect the right to respect and dignity for the most helpless among us. I am glad there are people in the world like you who aren’t bulleys at all and argue that those 40 million babies deserved to die because there isn’t enough room for them. What a just “hero” of a person you are.
It is a “holocaust”, period. And who cares if some Jews, because not all are, are offended by that. I can be Jewish and still recognize that abortion is the discriminatory slaughter of a people group.
Get better arguments, and think through your perspectives. If your so concerned about the “room” on the planet, then why don’t you do something about that and sacrifice yourself for the common good. Better yet, take the less radical approach and just conserve and use less energy, food and resources. But don’t use that as an excuse to deny these silenced victims of murder their right to life and justice. If that is your reasoning, you should be “afraid” of the God who loves us all equally and made us all with a right to life.



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Could you have been aborted?

posted December 19, 2008 at 3:30 pm


People who vote and argue for the murder of our innocent aren’t worship a God of “love.” Christians who lie to themselves and others about their sexual sin or any sin aren’t showing love.
Love is life, not death.



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Deborah Giattina

posted December 19, 2008 at 9:37 pm


Rick Warren is wrong. The California Supreme Court’s decision to allow for gay marriage in no way limited the right of anyone (pastors included) to express their disapproval of homosexuality or gay marriage. It also did not, as some claimed, have any effect on what can and cannot be taught in schools. It simply gave gay people the benefit of all the rights heterosexuals have in this state. Religious leaders like Warren have the moral obligation to tell the truth.



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Toni

posted December 22, 2008 at 12:58 pm


Rick Warren certainly has some good ideas; but some are not grounded in complete truth and research. For complete truth and understanding, there are only two–God and His Son, Jesus Christ.



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Victor Correa

posted December 24, 2008 at 10:59 am


Rick Warren never doubted God as He says… but the tone of his video in this video… makes me believe that Rick is not to sure about his response. One can not quiver (did I spell that correct?) anyhow… when it is about GOD… this is about faith. Total Faith. I do not doubt God in anything. Period.



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Debbie Boutwell

posted December 27, 2008 at 2:47 pm


I really liked what Rick said about our helping people who are suffereing, I hope that I will do more of it in the coming year. IF Christ is in us, then God helps them when we help them…right? I also like what he said about Heaven, what it’s like and who may go there. His honesty about those who don’t know about Christ making it in or not was very refreshing to me. He showed humility.
Of course, I don’t believe any will be turned away because I see this whole game of God’s as one big maze of bringing all of Creation back to Himself, through Christ and the cross. Jesus talks about this in John chapter 12. Paul too in Acts 17, where he told the men of Athens that God requires all men to come to repentance.
An honest, humble, openminded, study of the “Hell” words, what they are and who they are directed to, will help folks see this.
Be happy world, your Savior has come!
Debbie :)



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Sean Payton attributes a brand name new agreement that offers him an opportunity to make his first NFL mind coaching role a decade-longgig. The Saints announced on Monday that Payton, who coached New Orleans to its first awesome Bowl championship two seasons ago, has agreed to an extension by method of 2015Last winter, Saints fans started to be nervous that Payton could possibly have styles on coaching elsewhere when he chose to proceed his family’s long-lasting home from suburban New Orleans to Dallas, specifically where he experienced been an assistant for three many years earlier to getting the brand new Orleans job. Payton insisted he was pleased using the Saints and that switching his family was a personal decision. quickly after the brand new agreement was announced, Loomis mentioned the top workplace was self-confident Payton wished to sustain what he has assisted develop in New Orleans instead than start much more than somewhere else yangchengbin/201111



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Door Handles

posted November 8, 2012 at 6:23 pm


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shagor

posted April 7, 2013 at 2:36 am


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medical transcription Ontario

posted June 17, 2013 at 2:27 am


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medical transcription Ontario

posted August 1, 2013 at 1:54 am


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Betting Promo Codes

posted October 17, 2013 at 8:41 pm


Hi there! Do you know if they make any plugins to assist with SEO?

I’m trying to get my blog to rank for some targeted keywords but I’m not seeing very good results.
If you know of any please share. Many thanks!



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