Steven Waldman

Steven Waldman


Obama = Nebuchadnezzar?

posted by swaldman

nebuchadnezzar2.jpg
During his interview with Sarah Palin, James Dobson of Focus on the Family described a conference call he had with leading preachers. He said:

“It was just incredible thing…the spirit of the Lord was on that call and we were rather boldly asking for a miracle with regard to the election this year.”

Palin expressed confidence that God’s will would be done on election day:

“I have found myself over and over again in my life being put in these underdog positions and yet still when victory needed to be reached in order to meet this greater good, it’s always worked out just perfectly fine… I’m going to know at the end of the day, putting this in God’s hands, that the right thing for America will be done.”

So what happened? What was God trying to tell religious conservatives or the rest of us? Tom Minnery of the FRC Action offered a theory, according to the Focus on the Family website:

Minnery pointed out that in the Bible, God worked through pagan rulers such as Nebuchadnezzar, Darius and Cyrus to accomplish his purposes, and that values voters ought to begin praying for President-elect Obama.

Read more about how God used Nebuchadnezzar, a.k.a. the “wicked one.”



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LutheranChik

posted November 5, 2008 at 8:00 pm


Sounds like a big bucket o’ crazy to me. These people need to just get over it.



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Larry Parker

posted November 5, 2008 at 8:11 pm


And the Religious Right wonders why it is so thoroughly mistrusted, if not reviled, by people who … aren’t members of the Religious Right.
Folks, it doesn’t help when the feeling is mutual.



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non-metaphysical stephen

posted November 5, 2008 at 8:13 pm


Ditto on that LutheranChik!
I don’t take the so-called faith of the past few Presidents seriously — Jimmy Carter was the only one in my lifetime who I think truly gets Christianity. The Republican Presidents have had all the outward displays of faith, but I don’t buy it — they may have religious beliefs, but they don’t seem very biblical to me.
As Martin Luther himself said, it is a very rare thing for a ruler to be a Christian, and that should be accounted a miracle from the grace of God. Most of the time, we shouldn’t put much stock in our leaders’ claims of faith. Politics and Christianity are simply too different for most people to be able to do both well….



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pagansister

posted November 5, 2008 at 9:45 pm


Well, it looks like Palin and Dobson’s god made a choice for America..Obama.
The RR needs to leave the rest of us alone…maybe that was the reason their “divine being” had the rest of us (and some of theirs) vote for Obama!! Trying to deliever a message for them to “chill.”



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Naida

posted November 6, 2008 at 3:19 am


You just lost any credibility you had. How you can repeat this nonsense is beyond me – you should be ashamed of yourself. That you think God would support one party over the other is right up there with the 40 virgins in heaven nonsense. Get a grip. This is irresponsible, negative, abusive and just plain stupid.



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Johnny Varghese

posted November 6, 2008 at 5:46 am


Yeah God is sovereign. This does not mean that everything that happens is what He wants. There’s a difference between his direct will and his permissive will. It’s also true that in a democracy, people get the kind of leader they want. If they want someone who’s in favor of welfare and who’s antagonistic towards Israel, they’ll get it.



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WAKE UP

posted November 6, 2008 at 7:20 am


This is laughable. What the religious right somehow fails to understand is that God is not a PERSON pulling strings in some divine puppet show, but one of myriad names for an indescribable presence — the light, the kingdom, is within. Unfortunately, those that disagree with the religious right are accused of disrespect and godlessness. Americans are tired of the hatred, and thankfully, many are no longer willing to accept it.



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Iola

posted November 6, 2008 at 9:18 am


I have been a reader of Belief-Net for several years. After receiving your endorsement and campaign note for McCain-Palin – I immediatedly canceled my subscription. After reading this nonsense of Obama = Nebuchadnezzar — I am just appalled at those who call themselves Christians. For those of you so-called religious leaders who sat back and allowed your candidate to run such a negative and hateful campaign — woe unto you. I must say that Sarah Palin was right — God’s will will be done … and it was done. Barack Obama is a Christian — he may not look like you… walk like you… or talk like you… (thank God)… but he is a Christian. He looks like me (even though he’s multi-racial and I’m not)… walks like me and talks like me. And for Mr. Dobson… he has very strong family values and lives them. You couldn’t find anything to bring him down — so they made up stuff. But you know, your kind of thinking and interpretation of the Bible is what kept slavery alive. But it’s a new day… I liken Obama to the judges (Gideon for instance) as found in the Old Testament Book of Judges rather than a pagan king… I believe that God will use President-Elect Obama… a most unlikely candidate, to rescue this nation… Again, it’s a new day… old things are passed away and behold all things are brand new. There is no white America… no black America … no brown America… it’s just one America… one nation under God … May God Bless America!!!!
signed… A Christian Clergy who happens to be African-American and proud to be!



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Kathy

posted November 6, 2008 at 9:43 am


At the Obama victory celebration in Grant Park, when McCain’s speech was played, the massive crowd fell totally silent and was beyond respectful. During the McCain concession speech in Arizona, the much smaller crowd booed loudly and continued to yell out disrespectful, hateful things about Obama, including “Jeremiah Wright” when McCain commented he didn’t know what else he could have done to win the election. Obama endured many slings and arrows during the campaign, including being referred to as a “scary terrorist.” He never stooped to the level of his opposition, and like a true leader and a true Christian, he turned the other cheek and didn’t meet hatred with more hatred. I’m not sure I would have been strong enough to do that. I recall members of the religous right saying Sarah Pallin was “filled with the holy spirit” where it now appears, according to published reports about her spending RNC and staffer’s personal funds on clothes and accessories for herself and her family, she was filled mainly with greed and ambition. McCain failed to stay on message, and stooped to negativity and desparation and doing/saying whatever he thought was necessary to get elected. It’s clear to me who here is truly “filled with the spirit” and who is just full of it.



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B.J

posted November 6, 2008 at 10:22 am


Four years ago I watched this gifted man give a speech at the Democratic Party. He was amazing, I said to myself, “This man will be President.” I am white, but I do not see color, or one sect over the other because each has their own history, their own lessons,and it is from our free will that we choose what our personal and global destinies are.
One sect has not suffered anymore than any other, but we cannot afford to use this as an excuse for division, all is energy, we cannot seperate that, we are all one and I think our consciousness is shifting into a new era, because that is what Spiritual Evolution is.
This new President needs our prayers, our help and does not need a lot of backbiting. Everyone seems to forget that he just lost his beloved grandmother and has no time to even grieve, how sad that is, so let us learn to run words through our hearts before we speak them and try to make a better world for the next generation, names are just “labels,” we, as humanity place on them…it is time to look outside the box.
Best of luck to a beautiful, brave, family who are filled with grace and I hope, the American people who have problems with the color of his skin, look at theirs and know he is also white, not that it makes any difference at all. He has said over and over again that color makes no difference, let us try to overcome this stigma and try to get behind our President as a postive force for good.
Blessed Be,
B.J.



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dave collins

posted November 6, 2008 at 11:19 am


God’s will is always done.
Anyone who believes otherwise probably should not be telling anyone, anything about God. I have no idea about Nebuchadnezzar but I would like to put forth that George W. Bush and killing people in Iraq and Afghanistan are the only reason we have Obama as a President. So I think that the roles need to be reversed on who is wicked.
As a born again Christian I can not believe anyone who truly is filled with the holy spirit can write anything positive about killing people with drones and bombs and torture as the rule of law and those who currently put us as a country into the business of doing that.
So reach inside your heart and draw your own conclusions and God Bless all of us including the Next President of the United States President elect Obama!



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michelle

posted November 6, 2008 at 11:21 am


Obama is not a Christian. All of his monetary backing has been illicit and from crime bosses. Check your facts before you believe the Wolf in Sheeps Clothing see below:
A friend sent me this:
This election has me very worried.
So many things to consider.
About a year ago I would have voted for Obama.
I have changed my mind three times since then.
I watch all the news channels, jumping from one to
another. I must say this drives my husband crazy.
But, I feel if you view MSNBC .. , CNN, and Fox News
you might get some middle ground to work with.
About six months ago, I started thinking ‘where did the money
come from for Obama’.
I have four daughters who went to College, and we
were middle class, and money was tight.
We (including my girls) worked hard and there were lots of student loans.
I started looking into Obama’s life.
Around 1979 Obama started college at Occidental in California.
He is very open about his two years at Occidental, he tried all kinds of drugs
and was wasting his time but, even though he had a brilliant mind, did
not apply himself to his studies.
‘Barry’ (that was the name he used all his life) during this time had two roommates, Muhammad
Hasan Chandoo and Wahid Hamid, both from Pakistan.
During the summer of 1981, after his second year in college, he made a ’round the world trip.
Stopping to see his mother in Indonesia, next Hyderabad in India, three
weeks in Karachi, Pakistan where he stayed with his roommate’s family, then off
to Africa to visit his father’s family.
My question -
Where did he get the money for this trip? Nether I, nor any one of my children would
have had money for a trip like this when they were in college.
When he came back he started school at Columbia University in New York.
It is at this time he wants everyone to call him Barack – not Barry.
Do you know what the tuition is at Columbia? It’s not cheap! to say the least.
Where did he get money for tuition? Student Loans? Maybe.
After Columbia, he went to Chicago to work as a Community Organizer for $12,000. a year.
Why Chicago? Why not New York? He was already living in New York.
By ‘chance’ he met Antoin ‘Tony’ Rezko, born in Aleppo Syria, and a real estate developer in Chicago.
Rezko has been convicted of fraud and bribery this year.
Rezko, was named ‘Entrepreneur of the Decade’ by the Arab-American Business and Professional Association’.
About two years later, Obama entered Harvard Law School.
Do you have any idea what tuition is for Harvard Law School? Where did he get the
money for Law School? More student loans? After Law school, he went
back to Chicago. Rezko offered him a job, which he turned down.
But, he did take a job with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland.
Guess what? They represented ‘Rezar’ which Rezko’s firm.
Rezko was one of Obama’s first major financial contributors when he ran for office in Chicago.
In 2003, Rezko threw an early fundraiser for Obama which Chicago Tribune reporter David Mendelland claims was instrumental l in
providing Obama with ‘seed money’ for his U.S. Senate race.
In 2005, Obama purchased a new home in Kenwoood District of Chicago for $1.
65 million (less than asking price).
With ALL those Student Loans – Where did
he get the money for the property? On the same day Rezko’s
wife, Rita, purchased the adjoining empty lot for full price.
The London Times reported that Nadhmi Auchi, an Iraqi-born Billionaire loaned Rezko $3.5 million three
weeks before Obama’s new home was purchased.
Obama met Nadhmi Auchi many times with Rezko.
Now, we have Obama running for President.
Valerie Jarrett, was Michele Obama’s boss.
She is now Obama’s chief advisor and he does not make any major decisions without talking to her first.
Where was Jarrett born? Ready for this? Shiraz, Iran! Do we see a pattern here?
Or am I going crazy?
On May 10, 2008 The Times reported, Robert Malley advisor to Obama was sacked’ after the press found out he was having
regular contacts with ‘Hamas’, which controls Gaza and is connected with Iran.
This past week, buried in the back part of the papers, Iraqi newspapers reported that during Obama’s visit to Iraq, he asked their
leaders to do nothing about the war until after he is elected, and he will
Take care of things’.
Oh, and by the way, remember the college roommates that were born in Pakistan? They are in charge of all those ‘small’
Internet campaign contribution for Obama.
Where is that money coming from? The poor and middle class in this country? Or could it be from the
Middle East? And the final bit of news.
On September 7, 2008, The Washington Times posted a verbal slip that was made on ‘This Week’ with George Stephanapoulos.
Obama on talking about his religion said,’ My Muslim faith’.
When questioned, ‘he make a mistake’.
Some mistake! All of the above information I got on line.
If you would like to check it – Wikipedia, encyclopedia, Barack Obama; Tony Rezko; Valerie Jarrett: Daily Times – Obama visited Pakistan in 1981; The
Washington Times – September 7, 2008; The Times May 10, 2008.
Now the BIG question – If I found out all this information on my own, Why haven’t all of our ‘intelligent’ members of the press been reporting this?
A phrase that keeps ringing in my ear – ‘Beware of the enemy from within’!!!



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True Christians Don't Back Abortion Do They?

posted November 6, 2008 at 11:25 am


Obama believes in partial birth abortions, my moral compass is in tact, is yours? God isn’t going to say on judgement day- Well, since you have been a diligent American and supported the seperation of Church and State, then murdering babies is ok. NOPE, God is supposed to be your top priority and I think that’s what the Bible teaches?



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How Can Obama Be Filled With The HolySpirit?

posted November 6, 2008 at 11:32 am


He believes in abortion, which to answer to the wars and ‘evil Bush’, more of our babies are killed in this country every week than all of our brave soilders in the Middle east total. This makes me sick that all of you so called Christians have justified this to yourselves and you will answer for it one day.



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pagansister

posted November 6, 2008 at 12:00 pm


Michelle:
So just where did your friend get all that information? And how/why would she/he believe all of it? Or you for that matter?
Kool Aide? grape?
As to whether Obama is a Christian or not? Who the Heck cares? IF he is a Muslim, Buddist, Hindu,Pagan, Atheist etc.? who cares? He is an American first and our next president. The current, Christian in the White House is a very sad example of “Christian Leadership.”
And the last 2 posters at 11:25 AM and 11:32 AM (Michelle too?)
What I do with my body is my affair…answer to a divine being? Not a chance…no proof that creation exists! Obama is entitled to his beliefs as are all Americans. Not all of us are “Christian” which is fortunate.



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Celia McCulty

posted November 6, 2008 at 12:48 pm


I think partial birth abortion is the most heinous thing ever done in these United States. I can’t believe there is anyone so evil this would be allowed and “you” and you know who “you” are, have elected a man who believes in this practice. Abortion at anytime is murder, plain and simple, but to kill a baby when it is ready to come into this world is unspeakable. Don’t you doubt, any of you who have been responsible in any way, for this practice will be treated as a murderer. You may as well have killed them with your own two hands. I do not believe in abortion for any reason because if God allowed it he will provide a way for it to be taken care of, and abortion is a cheap birth control for a lot of people. But as Christians we know all these things happen in end time and I think that is the reason so many have referred to “O” as an Antichrist. You know there will be more than one. Read the Epistles of John, mentioned in 4 places.



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Timbo

posted November 6, 2008 at 1:12 pm


Whether you’re a loon like Dobson or a more moderate Christian, you still have to tie yourself in knots explaining what god’s will is and is not.
It’s highly unlikely that there is a god at all, and if there is one it clearly is not intervening in our affairs. Prayer may have personal benefits as a meditative activity, but folks, it’s not gonna change anything in the real world.



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Naida

posted November 6, 2008 at 1:17 pm


I guess one can’t expect much more from a Fox News website. Just the usual dose of lies, superstition, and fear.
You need to re-think what evil is. And what Christianity is – cause it ain’t you.
Evidently, a new generation has ushered in a new era and the type of thinking you encourage doesn’t stand a chance. No more control by fear. A miracle.



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Naida

posted November 6, 2008 at 2:33 pm


And to those of you focused solely on abortion: abortion will always be with us. No one of sound mind likes it, but it’s always been with us and as long as people continue to have sex, abortion will happen, legal or not.
Ironically, the leader you label as a baby-killer is more likely to reduce the number of abortions than any of your pro-life leaders because he is dedicated to the underlying issues associated with high abortion rates – poverty, education, racism, addiction, etc.
If you are truly dedicated to the fight against abortion, put your money where your mouth is and work to make a better society instead of sitting on your laurels insinuating that your new President is inherently evil.



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Patrick

posted November 6, 2008 at 2:59 pm


Some of you speak against abortion as being heinous (I don’t support abortion either) but yet you sit there and support capital punishment, which is murder, and you also support this never-ending war which has murdered millions of innocent men, women, AND children. Those children were already born and on this earth and we Americans aborted them. How is that any different than partial-birth abortion?
As for our new President, Barack Obama showed more characteristics of Christ than Senator McCain and especially Governor Palin. McCain and Palin told outright lies and offered so much slander that people were speaking of “killing” Obama. Even when the lies and gossip rumors were proven untrue, they continued repeating them anyway. I have family members who profess to be christians and I have to question how they could support someone like that! That’s not Christ like and for Palin to get up and speak of what God’s will is, she was too busy defaming Obama to even hear what God had to say!



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pagansister

posted November 6, 2008 at 3:05 pm


“……….if God allowed it he will provide a way for it to be taken care of and abortion is a cheap brith control for a lot of people.”
Celia McCulty
First, your god has allowed it at times, it’s called a miscarriage. Is he a murderer too? A few years ago an abortion was $300. Now it is probably more, so take my word for it…it is NOT a cheap form of birth control….and rarely used as birth control. Why would women put themselves through surgery every time they didn’t want to carry to term? They wouldn’t. In case you don’t understand, women don’t just have an abortion without a lot of thought and heartache. So don’t judge what you probably don’t know. As to the late term terminations? That situation is rare, and only don’t under extreme conditions….
As for my help in electing Obama? Am proud I did. You read, I’m sure the circumstances underwhich his lack of support in Illinois was done, right?
No one has the right to judge a woman’s personal decision. Those who perform or have an abortion are most certainly not murders.



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Kathy

posted November 6, 2008 at 4:00 pm


Thank you to the poster who pointed out that McCain supporters also called for Obama’s assassination at rallies, yelling “Kill Him,” “Off With his Head,” and the like. I had sadly forgotten about that. Did McCain ever get around to repudiating that? I can’t recall. Neither McCain or Pallin immediately spoke against those statements, though, to the best of my recollection. This calls their spirituality, character, and leadership potential into question for me. I apologize if my earlier comments were divisive, b/c I realize it is not for me to determine who is or is not a Christian, or who may or may not be “filled with the holy spirit,” whatever that means. Isn’t that blasphemy, which the bible refers to as the one unforgiveable sin? I am truly interested in joining with all people to elevate and advance this country and its peoples in every possible way. I will point out though that this is made more difficult for non-republicans when every challenge or conversation leads to a singular discussion about abortion. No one is “pro-abortion” or a “believer in partial birth abortion” and I wish that parlance which is inflammatory would end. I am pro men stopping raping women and children and impregnating them. I am pro an end to incest. As a counselor, my first job out of graduate school was counseling incest families. Has anyone else on here sat across the room from an 11 year old girl pregnant by her father, and also raped by her uncle? I wonder what a pregnancy and childbirth would do to her 72-pound frame, to say nothing of what it would do to her emotionally? I am not pro abortion, but I am pro saving that girl’s life and her sanity.



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Denise Macrae

posted November 6, 2008 at 4:01 pm


Naida I am glad to hear another speak about abortion this way. Abortion would be ruled out if society helped out those who are in need and stop men from running from responsibility. How is a young man too young to be a father but yet the mother has to carry on without his help and support. If you want to make laws make it a law that if you father a child you are financially responsible for it. Maybe they would think twice trying to show their manhood and trying to talk women into sex.



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Jeff

posted November 6, 2008 at 4:03 pm


The problem with Dobson and his ilk is that they are not pro life. Someone who is pro life is against poverty, the death penalty, mandatory sentencing, and war to name a few.
The are strictly pro fetus. It’s a tepid start but they need to start walking fast if they hope the reach the goal of being pro life.



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IDU

posted November 6, 2008 at 6:40 pm


First of all that Obama is a Brother in Christ!!!!!!!!
He believes in The sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. He personally does not support abortion. That’s why he said there ought to be initiatives that works with women to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
I think that so-called conservative “Christians” are more worried about their money, that’s why they support the republican party.
Jesus to told the rich young ruler to give all his riches to the poor and follow him. I wonder if James Dobson would do that?–read the end of his letter concerning prayer for the election–he talks about high taxes and spending!!!!!!!!! Didn’t Jesus talk about taxes: said give to Cesar what what is his and give to God what is his!!
I challenge to any christian conservative is to call Obama a brother in christ.



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Julie

posted November 7, 2008 at 12:22 am


Obama has NEVER voted on any bills in Illinois that would have resulted in the death of a viable baby. Steven Waldman and thousands of Americans owe Obama an apology for spreading false information.
FactCheck and PolitiFact have debunked the accusations in several well-documented articles.
Clarifying the record on the born-alive bill September 5, 2008
http://tinyurl.com/5cgcb6
I just found the above article that provides further support. It was an article in the Chicago Tribune by Rick Winkel, the Illinois Republican who introduced the bill in the state Senate. He said, “none of those who voted against SB-1082 favored infanticide,” despite his disagreement with them. “Rather their zeal for pro-choice dogma was clearly the overriding force behind their negative votes rather than concern that my bill would protect babies who are born alive.”
Jill Stanek, the former Illinois nurse, whose claims about a supposed rash of abortions of “born alive” babies at a Chicago hospital snowballed into the election-season charge that Obama supported “infanticide. FactCheck and PolitiFact have also debunked her accusations.
Winkel said, “I introduced Senate Bill 1082 because of a nurse’s claims that abortions at Christ Hospital in Oak Lawn resulted in living infants whom hospital personnel then allowed to die without medical or comfort care.”
Winkel said, “In 2005, I joined 116 state representatives and 54 senators in voting for HB-984, which contained the same born-alive definition and neutrality language as Senate Bill 1082, plus some extra language to satisfy the most zealous pro-choice legislators, yet harmless to the bill’s purpose.”



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Meghan

posted November 7, 2008 at 1:18 am


To actually believe that Obama doesn’t “personally support” abortion, give me a break. Didn’t you hear when he said “if my daughters got pregnant, I wouldn’t them to be punished with a baby”. He also told Planned Parenthood that one of the first things on his list to do as President is to pass the “Freedom of Choice Act” which allows any type of abortion, at any time during pregnancy, to any woman in America, no restrictions whatsoever. Why are you having such a hard time believing he is PRO ABORTION and PRO GAY AGENDA? He’s the most liberal senator in the senate and you think he doesn’t agree with these things?? And to even say he is a “brother in Christ”; give me a break. Did the hate-filled messages Rev. Wright preached sound anything like true Biblical Christianity to you?? Me either. You people are dellusional and need to wake up to the fact that our president-elect disagrees with the “fundamentally flawed” Constitution of our Founding Fathers, and is going to fundamentally change America as we know it. Y’all are watching the wrong news channels. The mainstream media has succeeded in delluding everyone into thinking that Obama is THE ANSWER that we all need so “I don’t have to worry about paying my mortgage, or putting gas in my car” because HE is going to take care of us! Wake up! Just watch and see how bad things get. And to think we won’t ALL get higher taxes? Hello! When the Bush tax cuts expire in 2012, ALL of our taxes will go up to over 39%! We need to all pray for discernment to know the real TRUTH, and realize that we are in the end times, and Obama is going to catapult us into the destruction of America. Just wait and see.



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Albert the Abstainer

posted November 7, 2008 at 6:17 am


People are funny, and people are scary, and James Dobson is absurdly scary.
How people can belief this is quite frankly beyond me. It is the sort of thing which leaves those of us living outside the U.S. shaking our heads in disbelief and consternation.
My message to these people is, “Get over it”. And like someone who does too many drugs, maybe it is time to lay off on the crazy-making religious phantasies. If you want to make a difference get out there and practice the love that is the core of the Christian message rather than this paranoid mash of hatred and fear.



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GBrown

posted November 7, 2008 at 8:09 am


I found this booklet only after the election, but those who are worried about Obama’s abortion views would do themselves an educational favor to read it. That you can’t imagine a world where people with differing views sit down and find common ground, advancing together in mutually agreeable directions, is a testament to how damaged partisan wrangling has made our nation.
http://www.catholicdemocrats.org/cfo/pdf/Catholic_Case_for_Obama_booklet.pdf
The idea that God is squarely in the corner of one political party or another is much more consistent with beliefs of the Taliban than with the principles upon which America was founded.



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Warren Cheswick

posted November 7, 2008 at 8:57 am


Pro-lifers who condemn abortion as murder but gladly sign off on a war that has resulted in the murder and disfigurement of thousands of innocent children in Iraq prove that they are only pro-life in the abstract, as an issue. Either that or they only believe that American babies are worth fighting for. Either way, there goes the moral high ground.
Oh, and Michelle – you need to stop listening to all those right-wing propagators of lies, misinformation, and hatred. I’ve never read such a complete load of crap as your “case” against Obama as some kind of clandestine Islamic terrorist. By the way, did you see that he chose a modern-orthodox JEW as his chief of staff? That kind of spoils the whole Obama-hates-Jews nonsense, doesn’t it?



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aaron

posted November 7, 2008 at 9:37 am


FActcheck.org, the Annenburg funded website? The same as Obama’s Chicago Annenburg Challenge?



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Kyrie eleison

posted November 7, 2008 at 10:51 am


Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small;
Though with patience He stands waiting, with exactness grinds He all.
REMEMBER THIS:
Nothing has changed through the generations. For many the choice is to REPENT or PERISH.
“They perish because they refused to love the Truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the Truth but have delighted in wickedness.”
“And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”



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Caleb Mast

posted November 7, 2008 at 11:35 am


I think it’s terrible how much people are scrutinizing President Elect Obama before he even takes the reigns of the oval office. We don’t pray with gloom and doubt for our leaders. Paul told Timothy to pray for secular leaders that there might be peace in the land. That sounds like a pretty hopeful prayer. We conservatives need to get over ourselves and pray passionately for the guidance of President Elect Obama. He claims to be a Christian, and I will not necessarily call this into question until something severe happens. I question the faith of former President Bill Clinton, but he brought this questioning through his lifestyle. I will support my Commander in Chief and pray for him while I think VERY critically about his policies and decisions. I support my President becuase it’s the right thing to do. Paul demands it of us. “Caesar does not bare the sword in vain.” I will disagree with my President on certain things and respect him at the same time. I call other Christians to do the same.



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redhead57

posted November 7, 2008 at 12:01 pm


All this comparison says is RIGHT WING FEARMONGERING.



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Kyrie eleison

posted November 7, 2008 at 1:08 pm


CONSIDER THIS:
Why do the nations rebel
and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers conspire together
against the LORD and His Anointed One:
“Let us tear off their chains
and free ourselves from their restraints.”
The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord ridicules them.
Then He speaks to them in His anger
and terrifies them in His wrath:
“I have consecrated My King
on Zion, My holy mountain.”
I will declare the LORD’s decree:
He said to Me, “You are My Son;
today I have become Your Father.
Ask of Me,
and I will make the nations Your inheritance
and the ends of the earth Your possession.
You will break them with a rod of iron;
You will shatter them like pottery.”
So now, kings, be wise;
receive instruction, you judges of the earth.
Serve the LORD with reverential awe,
and rejoice with trembling.
Pay homage to the Son, or He will be angry,
and you will perish in your rebellion,
for His anger may ignite at any moment.
All those who take refuge in Him are happy.



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Nancy

posted November 7, 2008 at 1:50 pm


To those of you who believe Obama, a man who has demonstrated nothing but Christ-like behaviour, is channeling another entity – why?!!
You bible-thumping fundamentalists have been FOOLED! Please give me one example of Christ-like behaviour demonstrated by anyone in the previous administration, or for that matter, the McCain/Palin team.
Could it be the deaths of hundreds of thousands in a profit-driven occupation? The complete lack of concern over victims of Katrina? The vicious attacks, lies, slander, total crap the McCain campaign brought to the American people?
I don’t want to hear about Ayres and Wright. They’re radicals. But your Christ was a radical in the same vein. Do you even know your Christ and what he stood for?
If your going to base all of your beliefs on Christianity – you better figure out what that is. It’s certainly not what you espouse and accept – fear and hatred.
Bush is not a Christian. Cheney is pure evil. They needed you to believe their Agenda was based on the few things that are important to you and you bought it.
Again, I challenge you – please give me examples of extraordinary Christ-like behaviour from any Neocon politician. No more bible verses, no rhetoric – just evidence that those you hold in esteem are really who they want you to believe they are.



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Fred

posted November 7, 2008 at 4:00 pm


Nancy, I guess I am one of those “bible-thumping fundamentalists” you write about and I could not disagree more with your hateful comments. You have the right to support and vote for whoever you please, and so do I, and neither of us should be belittled or attacked for doing so.
You claim that Obama “demonstrated nothing but Christ-like behavior” but obviously you didn’t see the ads that I saw, or listened to him lie about his relationship with Bill Ayers and the so-called Rev. Wright, or belittle evangelical Christians who “cling to their Bibles and guns”.
I will give you a great example of Christ-like behavior from President Bush. His initiative to help with the AIDS crisis in Africa is extraordinary. He mobilized the Congress and passed legislation that provided more funds towards fighting AIDS than any other U.S. President in history. Another example is his iniative to support Faith-based organizations that helped the poor and downtrodden all over this country.
What have your liberal buddies of Joe and Barack done for the poor? Obama, according to his own tax returns, has only given an average of 2 percent of his income to charitable causes over the last five/six years, while Joe just gave a whopping average of $600 to charity over the same period. So, they really care about people don’t they?
Nancy, I, and other “Bible-thumping” Christians, will be praying for Obama. That God will give him wisdom to govern appropriately and to be the leader that He wants him to be. I will also pray for you, that you will find the peace that takes away your anger, and that your life will be blessed.



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Nancy

posted November 7, 2008 at 4:42 pm


Please don’t brand my comments as hateful. They are not, and I’m not angry. Just frustrated – two very different things.
I did see the ads you saw. And I do know about his relationship with William Ayres. Honestly, considering how the US has been behaving since the start of the Vietnam war, it’s amazing haven’t bred a William Ayres on every block. Reverend Wright also makes good points. A country cannot behave like a bully and expect the rest of the world to lay down and acquiese. And was Obama wrong about the evangelicals clinging to their guns and bibles? Obviously not.
Bush and his AIDS policy. All the funding he approved to fight aids in Africa was abstinence based. Have you ever been to Africa? It is not an egalitarian culture. Women do not have a choice when their aids infected men want to have sex. Rape is extremely common and the most commonly used weapon in conflict. Abstinence-only prevention programs to not have a hope in haddes of succeeding. But appeasement, not effectiveness is the cornerstone of all neocon social policies. Bush doesn’t believe in abstinence. He doesn’t care about people with aids. He cares about manipulating people like you and it works. In the meantime millions continue to be infected because abstinence is foreign to them.
When practictioners and those in the field need equipment, medication, health care professionals, they turn to the CLINTON Foundation. Look it up.
Why are all Bush’s social inititives faith-based? Is listening to someone who’s trying to save your soul the only way to get help in your country? Don’t you have a separation of church and state? Why isn’t that respected?
Barack Obama may not write the cheques, but his decades spent working on education and community outreach programs prove his dedication to the downtrodden. Did George Bush ever work with the poor and downtrodden, ever give them a glance. Imagine!
Obama doesn’t need your prayers. He needs you to open your eyes.



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pagansister

posted November 7, 2008 at 7:50 pm


Nancy, great points and well stated!



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Robert P.

posted November 7, 2008 at 10:13 pm


yeah, great point nancy.



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Kyrie eleison

posted November 7, 2008 at 11:05 pm


Sinnerman, where you gonna run to?
‘If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the Truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think those deserve to be punished who have trampled the Son of God underfoot, who have treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who have insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The LORD will judge His people.” It is a fearful (dreadful) thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FnmPdVg_2Y



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Albert the Abstainer

posted November 8, 2008 at 11:06 pm


1.i Yawn.
1.ii And the religiously ill project their images and do great harm in the name of their Thunder-God. They condemn and cast aspersions, and be hateful and proclaim their “good news”.
1.iii The invaders came and carried with them a book. And before they came, the people had no book, but had the land. And after a time, the people had the book, but had no land. And the traditions of these people were made a great evil and suppressed, and much evil was done by the invaders.

We live in the 21st century, and superstition still holds such power in the hearts and minds of many. Why can the religions not lay aside their irrational beliefs? Embrace the states of awe and wonder that are the cornerstones upon which religious edifices have been built, but lay aside the foolishness of projection and ridiculous beliefs that must be sustained through leaving one’s brain at the threshold of religion’s door. Surely it is possible to experience Primary Religious states without the baggage of virginal births, physical resurrections, and the need to appease Yahweh’s wrath with blood. It is time to grow up, to put away childish things, and face life and death with courage and compassion.
Fundamentalisms of whatever flavour are dangerous. They permit the justification of actions that could not possibly be otherwise sanctioned as moral goods. (Read your Old Testament for some glaringly horrific examples.) Someday, hopefully, the majority will awaken from this stupor, lay aside their talisman-beliefs and make the world better through direct engagement.



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Mark Wonders?

posted November 12, 2008 at 1:03 am


The topic of this article is so absurd as to not warrant a moment of consideration. So here’s a more useful topic to ponder.
A truly thoughtful and rational evangelical would put the various issues which claim innocent lives into some kind of perspective – especially during an election. So it is surprising to see that in BeliefNet’s survey of voters issues that McCain evangelicals ranked the environment (last at 17%), reducing poverty (second to last at 21%), and access to healthcare (fourth to last at 24%) as relatively UNIMPORTANT issues.
On a global basis, destruction of the environment, poverty and inadequate healthcare contributes directly to the deaths of MILLIONS of innocent people each year from starvation and disease. In a running estimate provided at http://www.starvation.net nearly 9.5 MILLION people have died of starvation thus far during 2008. Untold millions more are dying from the effects of untreated disease. Overpopulation of the planet, greed, and the brutal effects of wars and strife are also contributing factors to millions of deaths.
There is no point in fixating on a single issue (e.g. abortion) when the deaths of MILLIONS of innocent people each year are being caused by mankind (which may be a one word oxymoron?).



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montag

posted November 30, 2008 at 6:57 am


This is a generation damned by its arrogance.
Imagine James Dobson hearing voices on a telephone and assuming it was God’s voice! What is that but the most primitive sort of idolatry… a narcissistic self worship at one’s own voice, or the voices of those that agree with you?
Each member of this generation is Haman. Each preacher is Judas.
They shall be elevated.



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Your Name

posted March 18, 2009 at 2:32 pm


1st of all nebuchadnezzar or cyrus were gentiles, assyria in original hebrew meant asshur, the son of shem( were we get the word semite) so get your facts straight!



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Your Name

posted March 23, 2009 at 1:02 am


no religon or culture has exclutivity on the ear of god . above all things the truth is free . It is a sad fact of humanity that culture of any type claims its rightious perseption over reality . nebuchnezzar was a tool of the creator as are we all . the term pagan is hatefull as the term nigger . hitler was a tool of god as jesus . This world is not utopia , but a place of learning . By which we may assend back home



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