Steven Waldman

Steven Waldman


The Amazing Palin-Dobson Interview

posted by swaldman

Here’s a rough transcript of some of the key moments in the fascinating interview of Sarah Palin by James Dobson of Focus on the Family. You can listen to it here:
God & The Mainstream Media Filter: Palin says she need’s God’s help to go around the mainstream media to get her message out:

“You cant pick a fight with those who buy ink by the barrelful…this is where my faith becomes even more important to me. I have to have faith that our message will get out to the American people minus the filter of the mainstream media…. We can’t get that message through the mainstream media. … I have to have that faith that God’s going to help us get that message out there.”

Trig’s Birth & the Pro-Life Movement: On the feeling that God brought Trig’s birth in order to help the pro-life movement:

“I’ve always had near and dear to my heart the mission of protecting the sanctity of life and being pro-life, a hardcore pro-lifer, but I think this opportunity for me to really be walking the walk and not just talking the talk. There’s purpose in this also for a greater good to be met. I feel so privileged and blessed to have been, I guess, chosen to have Trig enter our lives because I do want it to help us in our cause here in allowing America to be a more welcoming nation for all of our children.”

Having a Downs Syndrome Child: On hearing the news that she was pregnant with a Downs Syndrome child:

“I was about 13 weeks along when I found out that Trig would be born with Downs Syndrome. To be honest with you, it scared me though, and I knew it would be a challenge and I had to really be on my knees for the entire rest of the pregnancy asking that God would prepare my heart. And just the second he was born it was absolute confirmation that that prayer was answered.”

Prayers for McCain and Palin: Dobson says to her, “We’re on the same team. I’m just trying to serve the Lord as you are.” He notes that he and other ministers have prayed for “God’s intervention” and that “God’s perfect will will be done in November the fourth.”

“Well, it is that intercession that is so needed and so greatly appreciated. And I can feel it too, Dr. Dobson. I can feel the power or prayer and that strength is provided through our prayer warriors across this nation and I so appreciate it. [Dobson says, " Well, you hear that everywhere you do, don't you?] I do, and that is what allows us to continue to be inspired and strengthened. And it’s just a great reminder also when we hear along the rope lines that people are interceding for us and praying for us; it’s our reminder to do the same, to put this all in God’s hands, to seek his perfect will for this nation and to, of course, seek his wisdom and guidance in putting this nation back on the right track.”

The Pro-Life Republican Platform: Dobson expresses appreciation that the Republican platform is the “the strongest pro-life, pro-family document to come out of a political party, even more so than the platforms during the campaigns of Ronald Reagan.” Palin responds:

“Dr. Dobson thank you so much for recognizing that. This is a strong platform [built] around the planks in this platform that respect life and respect the entrepreneurial spirit of this great country and those things, back to the social issues that are what Republicans, at least in the past, had articulated and tried to stand on. Now, finally, we have very solid planks in the platform that will allow us to build an even stronger foundation for our country. It’s all good and it’s encouraging. You would maybe have assumed that we would have gotten further away from those strong planks. But no, they’re there, they’re solid, we stand on them and again I believe that it is the right agenda for the country at this time. Very, very clear and contrasted tickets in this election November 4th. People are going to see the clear contrasts, you just go to the planks in our platforms and that’s where you see them.”

McCain’s Pro-Life Commitment: Dobson asks whether, based on her private conversations with McCain, she thinks he “also strongly supports those views” and “will implement it.”

“I do, from the bottom of my heart. I am such a strong believer that McCain believes in those strong planks and we do have good conversations about some of the details too of the different planks and what they represent. I’m very heartened that John McCain … he doesn’t want a Vice President who will check the opinions … of me at the door and we talk about some of these and they’re very important. It’s most important though, as you’re suggesting, that Americans know that John McCain is solidly there on those solid planks in our platform that build the right agenda for America.”

God’s Will on Election Day: Dobson asks if she’s discouraged about the polls showing that McCain-Palin is behind:

“I am not discouraged at all, even hearing those poll numbers because, for some reason, I have found myself over and over again in my life being put in these underdog positions and yet still when victory needed to be reached in order to meet this greater good, it’s always worked out just perfectly fine despite the fact that over and over again I’ve been, and I know John McCain has been, in underdog positions. To me, it motivates us, makes us work that much harder and it also strengthens my faith because I’m going to know at the end of the day, putting this in God’s hands, that the right thing for America will be done, the end of the day on November 4th. “

Dobson says that he anad other pastors have been praying to God for his intervention in the election: “We were just asking for, rather boldly asking, for a miracle with regard to the election this year..” Palin responded:

“We’ll be praying too for your ministry and for those pastors whom you have just mentioned also. Collectively, we can do all that we have within us to strengthen our country and to let Americans know that government has to be on their side, it’s their government and as we seek God’s wisdom and His will in this election, we have to have faith that it’s all going to be good at the end of the day there on November 4th as this country moves forward.”



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Comments read comments(220)
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Gene

posted October 22, 2008 at 1:44 pm


Wow. Crazy squared.



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gmo2

posted October 22, 2008 at 1:50 pm


Yes, there are people praying McCain will win. Of course, there are other people praying that Obama wins. And some are not praying for any specific candidate, but that God will let the best candidate win. And all of them have faith that God will help them.



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Rob

posted October 22, 2008 at 1:59 pm


I suppose, Steven, your publishing these quotes makes you an instrument of God in getting around the MSM.



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Al Vrieze

posted October 22, 2008 at 2:03 pm


help!!! how do i get the mccain sticker off my bumper without scratching it or leaving a residue?



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Jim

posted October 22, 2008 at 2:03 pm


If McCain is so committed to ending abortion, why has he started saying it should be a state decision. Palin has previously used McCain’s statement about a state issue.
The person on Dobson’s staff the prayed for rain on the night of Obama’s acceptance was not very successful.



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slnkwstl

posted October 22, 2008 at 2:08 pm


Why should America become a theocracy? Our founding fathers took great pains while establishing this great nation to *specifically* avoid this kind of outcome.
Have Americans really forgotten this?



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ron

posted October 22, 2008 at 2:10 pm


Does any serious person believe that if God chose (He is all powerful, right?) NOT to intervene in the Holocaust or the genocide in Rwanda or Darfur that He will intervene on behalf of a political candidate to tip the scales in, say, Iowa?



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Grace

posted October 22, 2008 at 2:22 pm


What’s with the implication that the “prayer warriors” are only praying for the republican ticket and that God’s “perfect will”for this nation would put McCain/Palin in the White House?
I am a Christian and a liberal and I have been praying for God’s will in this election also. And I just can’t believe that God has a preferential treatment for the Republicans over the Democrats (or vice versa). If anything, I expect God is sorely disappointed in both parties.



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KYouell

posted October 22, 2008 at 3:07 pm


“On hearing the news that she was pregnant with a Downs Syndrome child:”
Let’s try this instead:
“On hearing the news that she was pregnant with a child with Down syndrome:”
Or:
“On hearing the news that she was pregnant with a child with Trisomy 21:”
To paraphrase Patricia Bauer, you can do better than that.
http://www.patriciaebauer.com/2008/08/29/a-note-about-language/



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kyle

posted October 22, 2008 at 3:12 pm


“I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator; by defending myself against the Jews, I am fighting for the Lord…. I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of all people. . . .” – Adolf Hitler



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God

posted October 22, 2008 at 3:37 pm


I am still undecided!



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Robert Tweed

posted October 22, 2008 at 3:48 pm


I’m all in favor of following the example of Jesus Christ in our personal and public life. But then again, if Jesus was on a campaign stump, the holier-than-thou McCain-Palin campaign would be concocting campaign ads condemning Him as a “socialist.”
Scripture from Jesus:
“If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven; and come and follow me” (Matt. 19:21).
And He didn’t stop there:
“Verily I say unto you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God” (Matt. 19:23-24).
Funny how Sarah Palin never talks about that.



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Carolyn

posted October 22, 2008 at 3:51 pm


So…if Obama/Biden win, can we assume that Dobson and Palin will acknowledge that ‘God’s perfect will has been done’ in this election?
I’m also a Christian, and a liberal, and I’m pretty sure God isn’t either a Republican OR a Democrat.
One should remember that many of these same people felt that George W. Bush was ‘God’s man’ for our country in 2000 and 2004, yet he has been shown to be both deceitful (lying to take the country to war), a torturer and very very interested in lining the pockets of the wealthy at the taxpayers’ expense (see the way the Bush administration farmed out the ‘rebuilding of Iraq’ [and all of our tax dollars] to all of their business friends).
I wonder – are those things that God supports? And are those the reasons people believe that God put George W. Bush in office?
*shakes head sadly*



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Jesus Christ

posted October 22, 2008 at 3:52 pm


I don’t know what Dobson and Palin are talking about. It is a well-known fact I am for Obama.



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Jeff

posted October 22, 2008 at 3:52 pm


How in the world can people, even Evangelical Christians, not be disturbed by an interview like this.



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mutterhals

posted October 22, 2008 at 3:55 pm


Nuttier than squirrel s***.



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Mark

posted October 22, 2008 at 3:59 pm


I’ve been praying that Barack Obama will win the election. His family and Joe Biden’s family are strong examples of godly family life. Gov. Palin and Sen. McCain personal histories show family dsyfunction often severe. When will Mr. Dobson see the light and come to the defense of the family? Why is he so blinded by partisan politics? American families need the Obama/Biden ticket as they show what true family values are unlike the rivals who talk, talk, talk but no walk. Rev. Dobson, quit serving the demon of hatred and racism.



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Cameron

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:04 pm


Nothing says “family values” like divorcing your crippled wife for a 24-year old heiress. Or letting your 16 year-old daughter get pregnant and forcing her to have a shotgun wedding.
How dare that Obama lead such a terrible, Godless life by staying married to his wife for all these years!



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Chris

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:10 pm


Please note the careful phrasing of “God’s Will be done on November 4th”. None of us can plumb the depths of God’s Will and it may just be that He wills that Barack Obama be President. I would certainly expect Rev. Dobson to, in such an event, bow to God’s Will as manifest and continue strong in his faith.



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John

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:12 pm


That is, without question, one of the creepiest things I have read in a long, long time. I have occasionally thought over the past several weeks, since we were first introduced to Gov. Palin, that maybe she’s not the scary Christian Crusader that she’s been portrayed to be, that maybe her comments are being taken out of context, or that, given her inexperience as a national candidate, maybe she’s just guilty of letting her mouth get a few steps ahead of her brain from to time. Happens to the best of us. And then I read something like this, and I just stare blankly at my computer screen, not believing what I am reading. A candidate for Vice-President of the United States is going to attribute her win in November to the conscious will of God, is thanking a preacher for his prayers in seeking divine intervention in getting her elected, and is seeking the help of God in bypassing the media in order to get her “unfiltered” message to the American people. You know what’s really scary? I seriously doubt whether this woman has any idea why millions of Americans might find those comments to be just a bit troubling. Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.



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jimfilyaw

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:19 pm


there’s a story in the bible where elijah challenges the priests of baal to a contest. each side builds a pyre and prays to his god to ignite his pile. voila! the almighty lights up elijah’s and opens the earth to swallow the heathens.
i’d gladly challenge this fraud to a similar contest. God will make known his favor come november 4th. i don’t wish that the earth swallow him (there’s already enough subterranean pollution). having to live as an exposed charlatan is enough punishment.



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edsbowlingshoe

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:19 pm


I fail to understand how God would want a warmonger to become president, particularly one who is attempting to win an election by stoking prejudice, homophobia, xenophobia, and fear to become president. And unless God has a terrific sense of humor, I seriously doubt he wants a VP as woefully out of her league as Palin to be the next president of the free world. There are numerous conservative women out there who would make terrific VP candidates – Kay Bailey Hutchinson comes to mind. It would be God’s mercy if Palin would lose and could be removed from the near universal (and deserved) derision she has been receiving…



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James

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:20 pm


Where in the Bible does it even suggest that being “pro life” trumps all other sins-
Dishonesty
Pride
selfishness
and, in John McCain’s case, add
ADULTERY — Over and Over again
he has also been known to take the Lord’s name in vain.
Oh yeah and he was a bomber pilot, so probably did not do too well on “thou shalt not kill”
and he called his bimbo trophy home wrecker wife a C***.
I too beleive that God is watching, and i don’t think he is too happy with the “conservatives” and thier moral decay. If Obama wins will you concede it is God’s will?



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Sheila

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:31 pm


Does Dr. Dobson realize that either Sarah Palin just lied to him or is totally unaware of John McCain’s stances on several issues that are dear to Dr. Dobson? According to Marc Ambinder at The Atlantic:
“The 2008 GOP platform is a bit more conservative than it was in 2004. If McCain is going to implement it – something of which Palin is convinced from the bottom of her heart – then that means that McCain will support a constitutional amendment to ban all abortion (including those cases where the mother was raped or was the victim of incest), a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, and he will oppose government-sponsored embryonic stem cell research.
Either Palin (is)trying to mislead Dobson, equivocate, or perhaps
(s)he doesn’t know what her running mate believes. McCain opposes a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage…. He supports embryonic stem cell research…he opposes a constitutional amendment banning all abortion.”
Which is it Governor Palin?



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Fay

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:33 pm


I just wonder how Dr. Dobson can support a woman who is working! Outside her home! A lot! When he believes a woman – not a PARENT, just a WOMAN – should stay home with her children for the first FIVE years of their lives.
Guess he really IS “pro-life until birth,” just like I thought.
Who would Jesus bomb? Nobody. Nobody at all.



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realbeliever21

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:40 pm


Dr. Dobson and Sarah Palin represent God and God’s Will. The anti-God, pro-child murder, homosexual democrat modern candidate thinks God can be mocked. God cannot be mocked.
Obama represents so many evil actions and views, it is staggering why the Roman Catholic church, and all those other wish-washy, “Please love me” placators of God’s enemies will not announce:
A vote for Obama, because of Obama’s pro-death, pro-slaughtering of infant stance, is a Mortal Sin. The Church should say with one voice: Any Christian who has voted in the past for these death-loving liberals is in a state of mortal sin, his soul is in danger, and he needs to confess immediately and practice restoration by voting for Sarah and McCain.
For the life of me I cannot see how Christ’s Church has been betrayed by its Shepards.
I wish someone could tell me why so many so-called “Christian” churches have fallen into such degeneracy that a candidate like Sarah is not ahead 92-8.
I wish someone could tell me why Catholic Bishops don’t forbid Catholics from voting for Obama under pain of Excommunication. Such votes are Mortal Sins, so say so and name names.
Thank you Lord for Sarah and Dr. Dobson, and I pray for Obama’s Soul and the Soul of all his followers and the innocents they have slaughtered.



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Julie

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:42 pm


To me, asking for “God’s intervention” seems to be at odd with asking for His will to be done. Asking for His intervention is asking for YOUR will to be done.



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Dave Bartoletti

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:43 pm


I’d like to hold Palin to her word here. Let’s all demand that she appear in public on November 5th and happily say, regardless of the outcome, that she is thrilled that the right thing for America has been done. If Obama wins, God must have wanted that, right? And be happy about it?
Don’t hold your breath. This is classic doublespeak: I’m just giving it up to God here, and not claiming to already know what He wants, but, well, wink wink, we all really DO know what he wants…



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Revmar

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:47 pm


Just look at these two. James Dobson was once a force for good when his “focus” was truly on the family. Now, he’s intoxicated by political power and clout. Shame on him for “losing his first love.”
As for Sara Palin, her inartculate words ring hollow when she goes on and on about her faith. Just watch her gleeful demeanor on the stump as she spreads her lies and distortions. What an unholy pair!



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Revmar

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:48 pm


Oops — that’s “inarticulate.”



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Get Real

posted October 22, 2008 at 4:59 pm


So you fight for babies but are okay going to other countries killing other human beings in WAR. I don’t think Jesus is for war. So those of you who act as if the Democrats are so un-holy; at least they are less likely to push killing other humans outside of the American border in War. The Republicans, including those so-called Holy Rollers who support war, are hypocrites.



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Astonishing

posted October 22, 2008 at 5:02 pm


This is wrong, very very wrong
Last time I checked, God doesn’t approve of the death penalty, of war, genocide, of torture, of abandoning the poor and the sick (healthcare, taxes)
Since when did God announce he was a Republican… or a Democrat for that matter?
God never endorsed lying… and I really can’t remember God endorsing a political candidate.
This is completely reprehensible to me… I’m shocked and appalled that these two would abuse Christianity in this manner… just shocked. I am still waiting for BOTH of them to explain how the rest of the GOP platform is supported by God. Honestly this is just bad.
And the Catholic Church’s stance is based on the face that the Church doesn’t support war, OR the death penalty, in addition to abortion (and homosexuality). So realistically, if we go by religious values… these two shouldn’t be supporting EITHER candidate.
Disgusting. I will never claim to know what’s in the heart or mind of the Lord and it’s horrible to hear people saying such ugly things. What happened to love thy neighbor? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone? *smh*



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Caral from SoCal

posted October 22, 2008 at 5:03 pm


For Dave & for Julie- read up on David, his prayer in sackcloth & ashes over his son with Bathsheba. He prayed for God to spare his son – passionately prayed. And yet, when God said, “no” David was able to be okay with that. That’s how belief in God works. You ARE able to petition – passionately and repeatedly – but then you ARE able to accept God’s will in the end if He so chooses another direction. There are many prayers throughout Scripture that follow this pattern.
More to the point for me – and I hope for thousands of households around this nation – READ as a family Daniel, Chapter 9. Let’s make a concert of prayer before our Lord. Confess our national sins – of abortion, of elder neglect, of not caring for the poor or the needy. AND, then ask God – not because of who we are, for we are not faithful, we are not righteous – but because of who HE is – faithful, righteous, and merciful – to direct this land. To turn hearts towards Him and towards what is important eternally. What is said in blogs, on the news, and in the paper is so often filtered through an anti-Christian, anti-traditional family, anti-conservative viewpoint that it comes out unrecognizable. God help us.



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Felicia

posted October 22, 2008 at 5:05 pm


“The anti-God, pro-child murder, homosexual democrat modern candidate thinks God can be mocked. God cannot be mocked”
The main thing that has turned me off to any republican candidate is the assumption by so many in that party that democrats are anti-God, pro-abortion and their “us versus them mentatity.” When you use language like the above to attack people you are trying to win over you lose. South Dakota has done much to limit abortion, work at the state levil to change the laws, reach out to democrats on this. Eduacate young people on ways to prevent pregnancy when abstinence does not work.
I hope that if Senator Obama wins the republicans can lose with grace. Senator Obama has my catholic vote!!



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James Timms

posted October 22, 2008 at 5:06 pm


We’re all sinners so stop pointing fingers at others.
For the life of me I cannot figure out why we Christians continually place our faith in elected leaders and politicians. Jesus didn’t need them to change the world and neither do we.
We don’t need legislators to outlaw abortion. we need to continue to work within society to change the way the public views abortions…and by that I mean we need to reach out more to the community at large. Provide safe-haven to unwed mothers so they understand that there are alternatives. Make abortion a last-resort option. We may not stop everyone, but those that choose to terminate a pregnancy will face the judgment of God. It is not ours to decide and lay judgment upon.
Our focus needs to be less political and more spiritual. All we need is God and the strength of will to love our neighbors and lend a helping hand.



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Felicia

posted October 22, 2008 at 5:17 pm


Amen James Timms, Amen, you have my vote too!



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Jess

posted October 22, 2008 at 6:19 pm


Republicans are NOT pro-life. They are pro-BIRTH.
Palin Slashed Funding for Teen Moms. How can we win this battle if young women don’t feel there is any hope or help? Jesus preached about helping those less fortunate – is that “socialist”??
The fact of the matter is that Palin reduced funding for Covenant House Alaska by more than 20 percent, cutting funds from $5 million to $3.9 million. Covenant House is a mix of programs and shelters for troubled youths, including Passage House, which is a transitional home for teenage mothers.
How can these people sleep at night?
Anyone telling you to look to a politician for salvation is anything but pious.



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Jan

posted October 22, 2008 at 6:43 pm


Yes, I believe that God will be in charge of the election. This is my prayer, but I believe that Obama is on God’s side. The main message of Jesus was brotherly love.
How can a party claim to be “pro-life” and be so anxious to go to war to kill, often the innocent.
God is not a Republican or a Democrat, a Baptist or Methodist. We do not create God in our own image. The magnificent Creator of all created us.
As for the elimination of gay rights, recently I heard the following statistic in a documentary. 1 in 2000 are born what is now being called “middle-sexed”. These individuals have both female and male genitalia; and their sex is physically undetermined by human eye at birth. Often the doctor may choose one sex or the other surgically for an infant or young child.
A dear friend of mine was born this way.
God created my friend.
Since a “middle-sexed” person is created by God showing physical characteristics of both sexes, whoever a middle-sexed person chooses to date and marry, he/she is in a same-sex marriage. This doesn’t even consider those individuals with other biological implications influening their sexual-orientation decisions.
Shouldn’t we leave such issues between the individual and God instead of judging.
What happened to the verse, judge not that ye be not judged.
Whatever happened to teaching the Sermon on the Mount or the only two Great Commandments Jesus taught.
If Jesus came back today, I believe he would cry when he saw how petty and exclusive our churches and theologies have become.



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BubbaJ

posted October 22, 2008 at 6:48 pm


Jess,
Get your facts straight. If you are a Christian, it is your duty to be careful about bearing false witness. Governor Palin INCREASED spending for Covenant House 3.9 million. Others wanted to increase it 5 million. It’s not as if the budget was already 5 million and she took 20 percent away. She decided to INCREASE funding by 3.9 million from where it was at the time. So somehow by your logic she SLASHED funding 20 percent. Nice spin there.
Here’s something for you to read (so you can stop spinning falsehoods)from the Executive Director of Covenant House:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
September 4, 2008
Contact: Deirdre A. Cronin
Executive Director
907-339-4203
“Covenant House Alaska is a multi-service agency serving homeless and runaway youth, including teen mothers. The majority of the agency’s annual operating budget is privately raised, with no more than 10 to 15 percent of funds coming from state grants in any given year. We are grateful for the support we have received from Governor Sarah Palin, the Alaska legislature and our Congressional delegation over the years.
Despite some press reports to the contrary, our operating budget was not reduced. Our $3.9 million appropriation is directed toward a multi-year capital project and it is our understanding that the state simply opted to phase in its support for this project over several years, rather than all at once in the current budget year.”
Covenant House Alaska is Alaska’s largest private non-profit adolescent care agency serving homeless, runaway and at–risk youth between the ages of 13 and 21. With particular expertise in helping some of the most hopeless teens grow into independent, successful and productive adults.



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Elmer Gantry

posted October 22, 2008 at 7:03 pm


That interview confirms everything I’ve ever thought about evangelical Christians, and why they need to kept as far away from any real power as possible. There’s nothing so scary as someone who thinks (s)he has God on their side.



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BubbaJ

posted October 22, 2008 at 7:21 pm


All of these people “scared” by Governor Palin’s evangelical beliefs probably have no problem with Barack Obama attending a racist, anti-American, anti-Semitic church for 20 years and whose mentor preaches Black Liberation Theology which espouses that the white man is the devil.
And somehow it’s a problem that she is praying for the McCain/Palin ticket to win on November 4. Does anyone seriously want to argue that Obama and Biden aren’t praying for a win on November 4? Please.
Do any of you have kids? Have you ever prayed for your kid to do well in their soccer game and maybe even that his/her team (gasp!) win? Have you ever prayed for your favorite sport team to win the World Series or Super Bowl? If so, how dare you think that God is on your side.



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Rita

posted October 22, 2008 at 7:28 pm


Jan, how can someone be a Christian as Obama states he is, and be pro-abortion? How do you reconcile that with your beliefs?
The Bible does state there is a time to go to war…but I can’t find anything that will justify partial-birth abortion or infanticide through purposeful medical neglect.
And Elmer, Obama claims to be a Christian as well. Do you think he should be President? There is a photo on the Drudge Report showing Obama surrounded by people, all reaching out to touch him, all praying for him. Does that disgust you?
Louis Farrahkan called Obama the Messiah. Does that worry you?



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Susie

posted October 22, 2008 at 7:30 pm


There is a reason for separation of church and state as laid down by the Founding Fathers. The reason is….WHOSE church shall rule? The Catholic Church, should Catholics somehow come to power en mass? How about Muslims, now there’s a thought. What if “prayer in the school” be sanctioned to occur in the Islamic way, five times a day, facing Mecca? It could happen, if Muslims were to get voted into power. How do you like the idea of a White House Menorah, instead of a Christmas tree? Or the White House sukkah? (Look it up.)
No, you don’t want THOSE churches influencing government, only YOUR particular church, whatever that might be. That’s why we MUST respect the separation of church and state.
That means people of strong faith—-whom I admire and deeply respect, being of strong faith myself—-must be ever-so-much MORE HUMBLE in not IMPOSING THEIR CHURCH-VIEW upon others through the offices of government.
It scares the pants off me to hear a vice-presidential candidate talk about the election being in God’s hands. Will Sarah Palin say the electorate has gone to Satan if her ticket loses? Is it a reflection of the nation’s immorality if her ticket loses? Or is it because there is nothing more frightening than someone with a LOT of power who utterly lacks humility. Who doesn’t even seem to know that she doesn’t know.
Frightening.



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Winston

posted October 22, 2008 at 7:35 pm


I have a question or two for those praying for a McCain victory, and confident of it, is this: By your own beliefs, if Obama wins, you will have to accept that his victory is God’s will. Will you accept that? And how will you reconcile that victory with your current view of the candidate?



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Mel

posted October 22, 2008 at 8:23 pm


Political praying is not my thing, but when I go down that road, I ask God for wisdom & knowledge to decide on the best candidate to govern this country.
When I ask Him for forgiveness it is for those hijacking the name “Jesus” and “God”. Using Him as a weapon (if you don’t vote a certain way you’re sinning! your doomed to hell!)or as a tool to achieve their own ends or own agenda…their own dogma.
I keep thinking of the Pharisees. Jesus saved His harshest words for them. I see a lot of similarity with our present day leaders telling Christians what they must vote. Additionally, Jesus was really pissed off that the money-changers were in the temple. I’m kind of thinking he might be equally ticked off that it is being used as a bully pulpit for politics.
Jesus, lest we forget, did not come as a moral reformer. He did not come to hob nob with the powerful politicians and religious leaders of the day. He came to speak to individuals…to their hearts & souls. To care for the sick and hungry. He understood change comes one person at a time, as their souls are mended and they receive care.
Dobson and his ilk are little more than a voting block to political candidates…to not realize that is to be deceived.
I could go on, but the people that need to hear shut their minds a long time ago. My one hope is that they are the minority, and the majority realize that we are choosing leaders to GOVERN our country, not to dictate & legislate religious doctrine.
May God have mercy on all our souls for the way we misrepresent Him day in and day out under the guise of Christianity. Myself included.



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hotspur

posted October 22, 2008 at 8:46 pm


To BubbaJ and some others:
No, I have never (as an adult) prayed for a team to win a game. That is not how God works, in my understanding. I also am not praying for Obama to win — instead, I’m working for that goal, because I think that is the way to achieve it, not through prayer. Prayers help center us and find the calm we need in storms, but I don’t believe God descends and changes the outcome of things for us if only we pray hard enough. I don’t believe God acts by a prayer “tipping point.”
I could be wrong. But whether I am right or wrong, I am sure of this: believing that God is on your side in a game or election is dangerous, because you must then necessarily believe God is against the other side. And we are all Americans, here. We must not believe that some of us our doing God’s work and others are aligned with Satan. That kind of thinking will keep us divided and resentful, and may lead to horrific tragedy. It is, I might add, exactly the kind of thinking of the Al-Quaeda terrorists.
And — just on a side note — Rev Wright is anti-Semitic, and says whites are the devil??? I missed that memo! Man, I guess we could spend all day debating what knowing Wright “reveals” about Obama, but at the end of the day I’ll only ask you to make attacks that are factually accurate and preferably supported via links to evidence. Thanks!



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SmarTpantz

posted October 22, 2008 at 8:51 pm


Bubba,
Before you have the temerity to write abt Black Liberation Theology, you might want to have a small clue abt what it is and the epistimology behind it. It does not espouse the belief that white people are the devil. If you are not contributing to understanding between participants in our democracy, perhaps you should remain silent.
Just so ya know.



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Ellen

posted October 22, 2008 at 9:02 pm


How very presumptuous of any of us regardless of of political persuasion to pray or assume or claim that God is on the side of our candidate. A hymn says it well: “the love of God is broader than teh measure of our minds.”
What do we then say when our candidate loses?



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Rick

posted October 22, 2008 at 9:14 pm


Rita – no one is “pro-abortion”! That is the problem with people of radical beliefs such as yourself – yes I said radical because choice is the mainstream law and you are out of touch with mainstream, making your views “radical”. It is a radical thought process to believe you can make choices over another human being’s body – truly against what the Constitution stands for, truly radical and un-American. I defy you to point out one person who ever stood up, anytime, anywhere, and said “I am pro-abortion”. There is pro-choice and anti-choice. The difference is that people like you think you have all the answers and think everyone should think and act and have the same belief system as you.
I have one question for you – does life begin at conception? Yes? Does that mean that life has a soul at conception? Yes? Well then, does that mean identical twins have half a soul??? Maybe you should learn a bit about science rather than just believing everything you have been told by people who enjoy the power of controlling thought without facts. Ever think that’s why they tell you to just have “faith”?
Are you equally scared about all the support McCain has received from every unsolicited nut-job? Oh yeah, I’m sure they don’t feed that information to you on Fox or by Hanity or Rush or Dobson. I’m sure you lap up all the hateful things Dobson says don’t you? Since you’re such a Bible reader, can you tell me what Jesus said about gays? Nothing, that’s what. And if you want to pull that crap line out of the Old Testament then you need to stop eating pork and stop wearing garments with mixed fabrics also. Convenient to selectively use the Bible as a cover for prejudices isn’t it? Doesn’t make you right.



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Karen

posted October 22, 2008 at 9:14 pm


Hotspur hit on a good point: “I guess we could spend all day debating what knowing Wright ‘reveals’ about Obama.”
Here’s one of the things that gets me about the whole Rev. Wright thing. Even if Wright said some things that are questionable or debatable, Obama has said that he did not always agree 100 percent with everything Wright said. I’ve moved around a bit through the years, and so I’ve had a few different pastors. I can’t say that I agreed with any of them 100 percent.
I suspect there are many among us who have attended or been members of churches where we didn’t always agree with what the minister said.
So what keeps someone at a church where they don’t agree with the minister? Perhaps it’s the church community and the spiritual support between members. Perhaps it’s the other leadership in the church. Perhaps it’s the opportunities for Christian service.
But if it’s all about the preacher, if you believe that your pastor is always correct, and if you always agree with everything your minister says, then whom are you really worshiping? God or your pastor?
My point being that I believe Obama’s heart is in the right place, and I actually think that the whole Rev. Wright thing reveals GOOD things about Obama’s character. Obama understands that Rev. Wright, though a pastor, is only human. He is humble enough to admit that he — and his pastor — can both be wrong.
Contrast that with Palin and Dobson, et al, who are filled with righteous pride and scorn.



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abdelhaq

posted October 22, 2008 at 9:35 pm


bism allah wa rabbina al-masee7 3issa ibn allah al-wa7eed.
In the name of God and our Lord Jesus Christ his only son.
Deenuna al-masee7i hadhi laisa mujarradan adaa’ siyasi lil-karaha bain al-7izbain wa allah al-3ala laisa muayyidan ay 7izb siyasi, fainnaha al-khaalid, malik yaum ad-deen, wa fi hadhal-yaum faqqat sauf ya7kum 3alaina. atadhakiru dhelik al-7aq!
This our Christian faith is not a mere political tool for hatred between the two parties, and God the Most High is not supporting any political party. For He is the Eternal, King of the Day of Judgement, and only on that day shall we be judged. Remember that truth!
ra7mat allah 3alaikum.



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hard workin ohio

posted October 22, 2008 at 9:44 pm


Of course we pray for John McCain and Sarah Palin to win. God answers prayers and ours is the greatest nation on Earth. If Barack Obama wins it is a warning from God that we have strayed from the path of the righteous. The homosexuals and heathens will run this country and your children will be recruited.
It’s time to pass a constitutional amendment declaring Christianity the religion of the United States of America and saying that no laws of men can betray the laws of the Bible.
Vote McCain!



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Karen

posted October 22, 2008 at 9:50 pm


I sincerely hope you are joking.



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EJ

posted October 22, 2008 at 9:58 pm


This is scary that we have so many people who don’t have any idea about diversity or toleration. That said the same hateful things about Catholics when JFK was running. His address to the ministers in Houston was great. Colin Powell’s words about the American soldier killed in Iraq and buried in Arlington National Cemetery were also inspiring. We have to move beyond hate in this country but it’s a hard road and until we do we’ll never really be free.



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Keith

posted October 22, 2008 at 10:09 pm


6[These elders should be] men who are of unquestionable integrity and are irreproachable, the husband of [but] one wife, whose children are [well trained and are] believers, not open to the accusation of being loose in morals and conduct or unruly and disorderly. Titus 1:6
Palin disqualified even as an elder.
Wrong choice as Vice President.



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john

posted October 22, 2008 at 10:22 pm


the lord says dont lie palin has lied over and over in her canpain.plus john mccain has mocked the poor JESUS WAS POOR rember the rich man in bible JESUS TOLD HIM TO GO AND SELL ALL ANG GIVE TO THE POOR AND FELLOW HIM WHAT WOULD JOHNMCAIN CALL jesus? .plus you see how hard john is fighting what is he fighting for.? money money money money money. call dr dobson at 1800-232-6459. and ask mr dobsion how much money he makes a year . they will hang up on you and will not tell you



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Dave

posted October 22, 2008 at 11:04 pm


Is Dr. Dobson aware, that after eight years of Bush’s very ‘pro life’ administration, Roe v Wade has not been overturned but the country has been completely wrecked? Will cynicism ever kick in? Christians are not stupid!
Believe it or not, Jesus’ amazing life was not devoted to gay bashing and bombing abortion clinics.



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john

posted October 22, 2008 at 11:40 pm


to hard workingin ohio its time you start praying and forgiveing others .undere bush there has been more gay marrages then any other prez in history. so go preach to the gay rep wing that endores mccain. plus the bible says iif you mock the poor you mook GOD and you mccain as been mokeing the poor



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john

posted October 22, 2008 at 11:54 pm


please go read isaah 56.9-12 and jer 23. the church has let wild elephants destory the church . please ask your pastor how much he makes a year . to see if he wants mccain for money



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Matt

posted October 23, 2008 at 12:42 am


This election is very important. After praying on this and asking God to guide me to scripture that would help guide my vote, I was drawn to conclude that Senator Obama is the better choice in this time of wars, hardship, and need to build an America that offers hope, health, and opprotunity for all Americans
I found it concerning that the tenor of Senator McCain and Governor Palin has been so hateful towards helping those in need. They have been calling Senator Obama’s plan to work towards better the lives of the poor, working poor, and middle class “socialism” and “welfare.” I interpreted the scripture to mean that it is our nation’s responsibility-and the responsibility of those of greater means to tend to our less fortunate brethen. More importantly, it seems to me that after we reap of our olive boughs, it is sinful for us to strip our boughs bare. One way we serve God is not by accumulating earthly wealth; but, rather using our prosperity to bring assistance and opprotunity to others.
After praying for God to help guide my decision, I was drawn to Genesis 4:9 where Cain asked God if he was his brother’s keeper. The answer was an astounding “Yes.”
I also was drawn to:
Deuteronomy 15:7
If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethen within any of thy gates in thy land which the Lord God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother.
Deuteronomy 15:11
For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore, I command thee saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy in the land.
Deuteronomy 25:18
But thou shalt remember that thou was a bondsman in Egypt, and the Lord thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore, I command thee to do this thing
Deuteronomy 25:20
When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.
I also was concerned about Senator McCain supporters exploiting half-truths and spreading inaccurate and misleading rumors about Senator Obama’s relationships, faith, positions on issues and integrity.
I prayed on this as well and was drawn to Exodus 20:16–Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. And Matthew 7:1-4 that tells us not to pass judgement on others.
Deuteronomy 25:17–thou shalt not perfert the judgements of the stranger…
I end this post with two self-explanatory verses that helped further my decision to support Senator Obama for president: Matthew 5-9: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God, and Matthew 6:43-44 that tells us to love our enemies.
This is some of the scripture where my prayers brought me and I believe it is important to share them with you. I only ask that others make their decisions with an open heart and an open mind.



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Rachel

posted October 23, 2008 at 1:27 am


I read this on a different Focus on the Family thread;
it made me think:
“I say thank you for your posts. I too was sharply criticized by church friends for working 2 evenings a week and not home schooling my children. (Both are now wonderful adults!) The source of that criticism came largely because of James Dobson’s books and radio broadcast.
If the Democrats had a female candidate with 5 children, you can be sure there would be a great out cry from the Christian community, ESPECIALLY from Dobson. The needs of a Down Syndrome infant, coupled with the needs of a “baby having a baby”, would deter any mother worth her salt from perusing such an overwhelming responsibility such as Vice President. Life does begin at conception,but the responsibility for those lives lasts at least 18 years. To be pro life goes well beyond the issue of abortion. It goes to “the least of these, my brethren”.



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Sean

posted October 23, 2008 at 3:25 am


I believe God’s will is not realized through “intervention” as Palin so selfishly prays for – I believe God’s will is served by the action of those who read into any teachings, the good and the fair and the giving aspects of it.
I am very happy to read these posts. Just when I thought organized religions of America were becoming increasingly ignorant of the most impoertant teachngs of the bible, I find all of you here, giving deep meditation on meaningful issues and coming back with such important and insightful words of wisdom. The bible has served you all very well. And as a result, your votes will help not only our country but the world, through the might of our great (once again) nation! God bless all of you.



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Samuel of Grand Rapids

posted October 23, 2008 at 6:53 am


Yeah, sure sounds real selfish to me. Isn’t prayer supposed to be a form of worship to God. It sounds to me like Dobson, Palin and their “prayer warriors” are only begging. Maybe all you nutty neo-con Christians need to reasses if your actions themselves are in accordance with God’s will.
I mean, even supporting war in general is a direct violation of the 10 commandments. It was the philosophy of Christ to love thy enemy, not kill them.
Btw- In 1 Samuel 8, you’ll find the biblical version of me:
(I’m paraphrasing) This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you- He will take your sons and appoint them for himself and to make instruments of war and take a tenth of all you own and ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you that day.
In other words, when we submit ourselves to other men and women who are more flawed than we, our PRAYERS GO UNHEARD.



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Susan

posted October 23, 2008 at 9:42 am


Unemployment breaks up more homes than anything else.
Where is Sarah Palin’s support for Downs Syndrome after they are born?



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Susan

posted October 23, 2008 at 9:46 am


The 6th Commandment actually says, “You should not murder”.



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Jen

posted October 23, 2008 at 10:10 am


Great blog, I was not able to listen to the entire interview and you certainly highlighted many of the important issues. It makes me sad to read the other comments below. I will not provide scripture, but I am certain that God will guide those unemployed and hurt by this economy. He will not let them down. With this in mind, I think it would break God’s heart to know that we are pushing aside such important moral issues for our “financial” needs. I put financial in quotations because really, how affected are we all by this economy? Think about it – do you have a roof over your head, did you eat dinner last night in front of your flat screen t.v., did you drive your kids to school this morning in a gas-guzzling SUV? Who are we kidding??!!! We are all doing fine compared to third world countries and places where genocide happens everyday such as Darfur. I know I’m getting off the subject, but it frustrates me that our society has gotten so selfish that we think we have a right to kill unborn babies, but heaven forbid we must pay $3/gallon for gas. So please, think about these important issues.



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Mandy Cat

posted October 23, 2008 at 10:31 am


The Christianists, as some people refer to Religious Right windbags like Dobson and Palin to differentiate them from actual Christians, are nothing but narcissists with a Bible in their hands. It’s all about one’s personal relationship with the Lord and the amount of secular power that one’s own denomination can grab. Of course, if you’re the always loathsome Ralph Reed, it’s more about how you can use God as your private career coach to run up your hourly billing rate.



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Julie

posted October 23, 2008 at 10:44 am


Several corrections: Susan, it is the fifth Commandment that says “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. The 6th commandment is “Thou Shalt not commit adultery.”
And to Sean, there is nothing wrong in asking God to help us. What do you think the Our Father prayer is all about? This is a basic tenent of Christian faith. Julie



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Sarah

posted October 23, 2008 at 11:35 am


Jen,
Just because YOU are better off than people in third world countries, that doesn’t mean that everyone is. It is not about 3$ a gallon. It is about people who have babies with issues and then the hospital won’t help them because their insurance doesn’t cover that. Maybe you and your mega-church friends are doing fine, but look outside your own neighborhood every now and then. I don’t think God just wants us to leave it in his hands. He wants us to BE his hands. I have very distinct memories of being HUNGRY as a child. I have had students with no indoor plumming and a roof that was just a tarp. Do you have any idea how wealthy James Dobson is? He probably does care about the sanctity of life, but he also doesn’t want to pay taxes to help indigent mothers raise their babies either.



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nameless

posted October 23, 2008 at 11:55 am


Interesting contrast between asking for “God’s intervention” [to grant us what we want] and for His will to be done.
On a less theological note, it’s sad to see faith used as a tool to divide the nation (and even Christians).



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Your Name

posted October 23, 2008 at 12:32 pm


Jen,
I think you’ve captured it nicely. We are a rich greedy country. People need to understand what is going on in the WORLD in order to understand how fat and privileged we have become as a Nation. That’s why I volunteer my time to support worthy causes instead of collecting more money from the Military-Industrial Complex. There’s plenty of work to be done. Americans need to re-discover what sacrifice means, and that it has little to do with your choice of SUVs. I’m tired of this religious nonsense-babble that seems to dominate our culture these days. Faith is a personal thing. Those who flaunt it are seeking something more than spiritual fulfillment. I leave you with a paraphrased quote from the late, great Congresswoman Barbara Jordan, addressing the Baptist Joint Committee: “You would be well to pursue your causes with vigor, while remembering that you are a servant of God, not a spokesperson for God and remembering that God may choose to bless an opposing point of view for reasons that have not been revealed to you.”



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Tom

posted October 23, 2008 at 1:42 pm


Faith is absolutely a personal thing. However, it shouldn’t necessarily be a private thing, as Sacred Scripture commands us Christians to go out into the world and preach the gospel to every living thing. There’s quite a difference between flaunting one’s faith and sharing it, as people have been known to do both. Offhand, I must say that I like the quote by Congresswoman Jordan, though I must confess I know not the context or circumstances under which it was made.
Thank you Governor Palin for sharing your faith with the public at large!



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aloha43

posted October 23, 2008 at 2:07 pm


Faith is fine in private. But to mix church and state….praying for politics is just wrong.
Also…
That church in Texas (I can’t remember the name), had many people outside, praying for the hurricanes to go a different way. Doesn’t that mean that they are praying for the hurricanes to veer and hit someone else? In their own words….they prayed for 2 past hurricanes. and God blessed us and made the hurricane veer left or right…..in one instance, Katrina hit New Orleans. They prayed for God to send it anywhere but towards them….that is just wrong. It’s like praying that God saves you, but hurts everyone else in the process.
Isn’t there something wrong with praying to send all of the “bad” stuff someone else’s way? How about praying for the Hurricane to just go away.
Last question…..
If there really is a God, why does he send hurricanes our way to begin with? Why doesn’t he just eliminate every bad thing our world experiences? Why did he “create” these bad things in the first place?
I’m sorry if I sound rude, but until I have any proof, I am VERY skeptical.



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Green Mountain Mama

posted October 23, 2008 at 2:47 pm


If true religion is to take care of the widows and orphans, I am continually struggle with the view of Republicans on helping them. And I cannot imagine that I will ever leave my prayer closet if McCain and Palin are elected – why, oh why must they talk so hatefully? It grieves me to my very soul. And I think it grieves our loving Father too. Unity, not division, is what I long for in this country. May God bless the United States of America – we surely need His help!



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Julia

posted October 23, 2008 at 3:05 pm


Hey Aloha43… no need to apologize for wanting some answers. God wants you to ask- He wants to dialogue with you !
With regards to hurricanes, do you know why we need them? Hurricanes redistribute the heat between the tropics and polar regions. I think you can figure out what would happen if one region got too hot or too cold. The problem is that people, not God, have chosen to build right up to the coastline which protects us. We disturb the dunes, the sand, the ecosytems that protect us and bam, the hurricanes hurt us. Natural laws simply are… it is our choices that make the difference. Keep asking…that’s the only way to get an answer :)



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jazzypaul

posted October 23, 2008 at 3:13 pm


“Faith is fine in private. But to mix church and state….praying for politics is just wrong.”
My praying for politics is wrong?
Errr…thanks for telling me what I can and can’t pray about.
What if I am praying for Obama to win because I believe that we are on the cusp of demise because of the policies of Bush and possibly McCain?
Ezekiel 16:49-50
” 49 Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.”
Seriously, I tire of feeling like some sort of useful idiot for both the right and the left.
Either the left treats us with condescension, telling us that Jesus was just about love and hope and forgiveness, while forgetting all about the fact that He fulfilled the very laws that they screech about (see Deuteronomy and Leviticus), or the right pats us on the head and tells us that the left wants to kill babies and have gay men screwing in the streets.
Why can’t everyone just shut up and let me pray for what I am going to pray for without telling me that I’m not REALLY a Christian (hello “conservatives”) or telling me that I believe in fairy tales (hello Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins, et al).
Seriously, if Beliefnet wants a TRULY interesting blog and discussions, you should give me a platform: one of the rare theologically conservative Christians that somehow manages to think that socialism is a viable and necessary political concept.



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Trish

posted October 23, 2008 at 3:48 pm


Will James Dobson and Sarah Palin accept God’s will November 4th, if Obama wins the presidential election?



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Timbo

posted October 23, 2008 at 5:16 pm


This nonbeliever couldn’t care less who prays for what. If Palin seems crazy, she’s only slightly crazier than Obama or Biden, who are also practicing Christians.
Prayer may have psychological benefits for the devout, but you’re deluded if you think that praying for something will have any effect on the outcome.



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jazzypaul

posted October 23, 2008 at 5:54 pm


“This nonbeliever couldn’t care less who prays for what. If Palin seems crazy, she’s only slightly crazier than Obama or Biden, who are also practicing Christians.”
does it really bring pride to the family name to call practicing Christians crazy?
No, it doesn’t. And if it does, we’re in bigger trouble than I thought.



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Jessica

posted October 23, 2008 at 6:18 pm


Anyone in a position of great power who feels they’re doing “God’s work” scares the hell out of me.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad



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Melissa

posted October 23, 2008 at 7:01 pm


Is McCain going to be an advocate for the poor, the sick, the old? Jesus was. Carefully read his health care plan and you decide.



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maria

posted October 23, 2008 at 10:01 pm


Did God also buy her $150,000 in clothes? Sensitivity to others’ plight is a core Christian value–and that kind of excess violates Christian values, as does hypocrisy.



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Moderate Minneapolite

posted October 23, 2008 at 11:49 pm


But the whole “planks” thing? Kind of seems like she has not read the Republican Platform. I don’t doubt her commitment to the anti-abortion movement, but that wasn’t exactly a coherent discourse on the platform.



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Jennifer

posted October 24, 2008 at 12:22 am


Hey, Maria, maybe check out the luncheon cost for Michelle Obama at the Waldorf Astoria last week! (Lobster, caviar, champagne) Why do the clothing costs for Palin bother you (even though she didn’t pay for ANY of it) yet Michelle’s “working man” hypocrisy doesn’t affect you at all? Give me a break.
And Jessica – anyone in a position of great power who states he will “side with the Muslims” scares the hell out of me a lot more than Palin and her Christianity! Find out the backgrounds of your candidates before you tar and feather Gov. Palin!



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God

posted October 24, 2008 at 1:39 am


“Dobson says that he and other pastors have been praying to God for his intervention in the election: “We were just asking for, rather boldly asking, for a miracle with regard to the election this year..”"
A miracle. Yeah, that’s what you need alright.
Unfortunately, I am plumb out of miracles.
Sincerely,
God



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kathleen

posted October 24, 2008 at 1:59 am


I wonder the cost of the suits for the rest of the candidates. So much discussion and name calling over trivia. Wake up America, lets heat facts that matter. If she appeared in K- Mart Specials, would we criticize she was a coubtry bumbkin with no class….
Take the rock out of your eye…..



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Delia

posted October 24, 2008 at 2:58 am


Jennifer
“Hey, Maria, maybe check out the luncheon cost for Michelle Obama at the Waldorf Astoria last week! (Lobster, caviar, champagne) Why do the clothing costs for Palin bother you (even though she didn’t pay for ANY of it) yet Michelle’s “working man” hypocrisy doesn’t affect you at all? Give me a break.”
Give ME a break. Murdoch published this on the gossip page of the NY Post one day and had to retract it the next because Michelle was campaigning in Indiana that day and wasn’t anywhere near the Waldorf Astoria. He just published sleazy gossip w/o vetting it, and you just believe slime because you want to believe it. The McCain campaign admitted how much they spent on Palin’s clothes.
“And Jessica – anyone in a position of great power who states he will “side with the Muslims” scares the hell out of me a lot more than Palin and her Christianity! Find out the backgrounds of your candidates before you tar and feather Gov. Palin!”
And what is this about? Are you getting information about Obama’s positions from anonymous circular emails or the swift-boat authors? Why don’t you try something reputable and fact based for a change? Or do you prefer to stay down in the slime? Not good practice for a purported Christian. (something about not bearing false witness comes to mind.)



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GT

posted October 24, 2008 at 4:54 am


This “amazing” interview should get more air time because it shows that when you have limited knowledge and almost no grasp of global issues, it seems virtuous and smart to use God as your fall back position.
If this interview was by someone running for a church position, fine but for a Presidential VP, there is nothing to celebrate about her answers. Is American really so wrapped up in the supernatural that they find her views on the world acceptable.
I equate this to a religious person being diagnosed with Cancer. They have a choice – do nothing but pray and hope for the miracle that never comes, or go to the smartest doctor at the best hospital to get treatment
99 of 100 go to the doc first and pray second.
The president is the smart guy with the cure, not the prayer leader on Sunday!
McCain has made a massive error and I have no doubt he will regret it for a very long time if he is not already.
PS. I write as a republican who wants Mr Jefferson’s wall built a little higher!



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pete dominick

posted October 24, 2008 at 6:54 am


Jennifer
You are about to feel really really foolish. It is people like you who believe everything that they hear / read because it goes with the way you are already thinking that are the problem. You see Michell Obama did not order caviar and lobster at the waldorf astoria. Why you ask ? Because she NEVER STAYED THERE !
The NY POST ran that article and then retracted it.
So how do you defend your argument right now. Must be cold standing there so naked without the truth to warm you



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Paul Sizwe

posted October 24, 2008 at 7:10 am


If the McAin / Palin ticket is the ticket of the ‘family’, then consider this: Isnt it McCain who cheated and left his sick wife? Adultery anyone? Isnt this same wife Cindy involved in selling alcohol? Which ticket has more family values? Joe Bidedn took care of his kids after his wife died and Barrack has exhibited better familly values and parental control than McAin or Palin whos daughter became pregnant? Such hypocrisy from the good Dr Dobson whom I once admired!
Paul From South Africa



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pagansister

posted October 24, 2008 at 12:05 pm


The more Palin opens her mouth, the more it reinforces the decision I made a long time ago, to vote for Obama/Biden. The thought of Palin being literally a heartbeat away from the highest office in the land is totally frightening. Am not too keen on McCain either, but might have had more admiration for him if his choice of VP had been better.



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Doug

posted October 24, 2008 at 8:01 pm


Will she believe God’s will has been done if Obama wins? If she really is trusting God to guide this election and country will she be able to accept that she might. Not be the only tool of God’s will?



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Ema

posted October 24, 2008 at 9:41 pm


I emailed Dr. Dobson about my concern of his support for Governor Palin. His representative replied my email but did not dispel my concerns. I am a faithful purchaser of Dr. Dobson’s books on the family but believe in this regard he has been the most hypocritical right wing evangelical leader. Governor Palin is single handedly leading the worst case of race-baiting, hateful rhetoric, outright lies, hypocrisy and a record of abuse of power among others. McCain and Palin are the only 2 candidates on the same ticket in history to have ethics charges proven against them (Keating 5 & Troopergate). I am disappointed in Dr. Dobson for blindly supporting such a flawed candidate and sending me newsletters thinking I don’t have any brains to question Palin’s authenticity.



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Aaron

posted October 25, 2008 at 9:12 am


I always knew that some of our lives revolved around hate and vitriol. I wasn’t sure exactly how deep it ran though. Thank you to all those who are showing the world exactly who you are. I hope and pray that you can learn to love america someday and those who have actually made it truly great. Until then, vote for obama and hope for your great veil of utopia. And maybe he is God’s will for this country. Remember, the world all comes crashing down at the end.



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john field

posted October 25, 2008 at 5:54 pm


I can’t decide if it was irresponsibility or incipient senility or just bad judgement that goaded McCain to choose someone so incredibly unqualified as a running mate.
There is no way I would jeopardize the safety of this country by voting to have this incoherent woman within 1000 miles of the White House. Very frightening.



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Pentimento

posted October 26, 2008 at 9:09 am


One of two things are about to happen, but it will not be our choice.. it will be G-d’s.
On the one hand, we are about to witness the largest exposure of political corruption in US history with McCain/Palin leading the Juggernaut. G-d does not appreciate the notion of His name being used to promote racism (Wright), and He certainly is sick and tired of the genocide in this country claiming the lives of 50+ million Americans since Roe V Wade.
On the other hand, we may be facing the abandonment of G-d’s protection for this nation as a result of our tolerance of abortion and the rejection of G-d in our schools and culture.
Which way will it go?… only G-d knows.



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Colleen

posted October 26, 2008 at 11:30 pm


You cannot be an authentic Christian and be pro-abortion. Abortion is a choice to murder a life. This is against the 5th Commandment.
The only valid choice this election is McCain/Palin and other pro-life candidates. All other issues pale next to getting that legislation from the bench decision over-turned.
I am amazed Christian bloggers are pushing Obama. I am not judging you, nor do I know you. But I believe with all my heart and soul it is a sin to cast a vote for the most extreme abortion supporting candidate in the history of our country.
God send out your Spirit, and renew the face of the earth!
McCain/Palin on 11/4. 2-3 more pro-life, pro-Constitution judges on the Supreme Court.



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thevbs7

posted October 27, 2008 at 10:45 am


one’s reaction to sarah palin shows where that person is spiritually.
it’s as simple as that. little or no connection to Jesus Christ defines those who attack her. she lifts up Jesus and His principles first. it’s sad to think how little is thought of Jesus’ principles and salvation. how scarey to think of those without the eternal security found only in Him.
“Seek first the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added to you,” Matt. 6:33. our country would benefit the most from putting Him first.



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THINK ABOUT IT

posted October 27, 2008 at 12:37 pm


“one’s reaction to sarah palin shows where that person is spiritually”
I agree. To miss the evidence of the Holy Spirit empowering both Palin AND McCain- you have to be spiritually blind.
Think how hard the mainstream media has worked to publish an unflattering picture of Sarah Palin. She doesn’t take a bad picture. Have you considered why the liberal elite have a livid hatred towards her?
1. She is truly beautiful — and didn’t have to undergo a million dollars worth of cosmetic surgery to get that way.
2. She is an independent, resilient and resourceful thinker — and doesn’t have to depend on an ivy league education.
3. She made her way to the top on her own two feet — and not on her back.
And think:
McCain’s wife is 18 years younger than her husband and tells repeatedly how she can NOT keep up with him. He is 72 and his body was broken years ago under torture. His range of motion and mobility is severely limited yet he is physically and mentally meeting the demands of campaigning. He is working harder and longer than his much younger opponent on a mere fraction of the money.
Open your eyes, believers.
Isaiah 40:28-31
“Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
The LORD is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He does not grow tired or weary,
and His understanding no one can fathom.
He gives strength to the weary
and increases the power of the weak.
Even youths grow tired and weary,
and young men stumble and fall;
But those who hope in the LORD
will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles;
they will run and not grow weary,
they will walk and not be faint.”



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Cathie

posted October 27, 2008 at 2:00 pm


Facts:
- I didn’t know Rev. Wright hated the USA and white people.
- I didn’t know Ayers was a terrorist.
- I didn’t know Acorn did anything illegal.
- I didn’t know my wife was not proud of this country.
(Should I go on)
The problem isn’t that Obama doesn’t have enough experience, it is what kind of experiences does he have.
- Spread the wealth.
- Ok for parital birth abortion.
- Has absolutely no experience with foreign policies except daddy was a muslim.
- Would not be able to enter the military because he cannot have a military clearance based on his affiliations and yet we are giving him the keys to the USA.
Liberals you need to open your eyes, something isn’t right. BO is dangerous.



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Cathie

posted October 27, 2008 at 2:04 pm


If, as he (Barrack)states,he wasn’t aware of Wright, Ayers, Acorn, Michelle and a bunch of others, then he is truly CLUELESS which should be enough in itself to keep people from voting for him. However, if he is aware, then he is a blatant liar. So which are your voting for Liberals; the liar or one that is clueless.



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Steve

posted October 27, 2008 at 2:48 pm


“one’s reaction to sarah palin shows where that person is spiritually”
From the looks of the above comments it would appear they are swimming in the cess pools of life.



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Joie de Vivre

posted October 27, 2008 at 3:39 pm


Anyone notice that many “journalists” are sounding more and more like “propagandists” who are following “talking points” intended to persuade the masses to vote early for Obama/Biden and destroy McCain/Palin.
They should listen to the following video. It is part one of a 1985 interview with Ex-KGB officer Uri Bezmenov.
In this interview, Bezmenov outlines the systematic demoralization and indoctrination techniques utilized for decades by Socialist/Marxists to manipulate free thinkers in the population.
The interview is prophetic, describing effects we can see all around us today, and it speaks to the bleak future of our nation if left unchecked.
Yuri Bezmenov, interviewé en 1985.



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Joie de Vivre

posted October 27, 2008 at 3:44 pm


If the link does not work- please cut and paste:
Yuri Bezmenov- Ex KGB
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6KUDv1wzraWhwlBt1



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Phillip Briggs

posted October 27, 2008 at 5:42 pm


Father in heaven open the blind eyes of the people who can not see
your truth. There is a spirt of corruption,fighting to take away that which is good on america.We have taken you out of pur schools. We are not allowed to speak you name or you sons name Jesus. We are not allowed to display your ten commandents. It’s ok to lie and cheat
the american people cause all we are to the corrupt is just a $$$$
dollar sign.
Our leaders have taken away all that is good and have passed laws
that would make the leaders stronger and make the voice of joe the
plumber less. What they want is to take away our vote and make it null affect.
Father in heaven WE Christians know we win in the end and we know We are in the last days. We know that at one point the world tries to have a one world goverment. Father in Heaven if this is part of your plan to seperate the wheat from the chaf let it be. If not Father
help our country that has tried to lock you out of its thought and ways. I pray that you would become first in our schools and our ways in our lives. Most of all all our laws would be Faith based in you our
only Savior.
I asked this in the name of Jesus but not our will but your be done on earth as it is in Heaven.



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Max

posted October 27, 2008 at 7:30 pm


One of Jesus’ sayings that I call to mind whenever I think about Obama’s candidacy is the following “What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul”. Obama gives me a sense that his soul is not for sale. Not even the prize of the Presidency of the United States can tempt him. By and large he has consistently refused to take the low road of character assassination and false propaganda. He has not given up to his campaign the one thing he cannot afford to lose, his self respect, his integrity. This is the source of his imperturbable manner, his good humored optimism regardless of the state of the race.
In an age when we expect our politicians to be dishonest, it has been difficult for his opponents to understand this basic integrity of character. Many voters are hungry for this kind of integrity and as they are gradually convinced that Obama is real, they will continue to flock to his candidacy.
On the other hand McCain has shown himself to be a flawed character. He has lied on a wide range of subjects. He claims to put country first, but he chose his vice president solely to energize his extremist base, with no concern whatsoever for the good of the country. Everyone knows it, though he continues to claim otherwise. He has sold his soul and his reputation in what many independent observers describe as the most dishonorable campaign for the presidency ever run.
President Eisenhower once explained “It is important that when the President of the United States speaks, he is believed”. If you too believe character is important in your president, how can you continue to support McCain.



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THINK ABOUT IT

posted October 27, 2008 at 8:51 pm


The scripture Max quoted:
And calling the crowd to Him with His disciples, He said to them, “If anyone would come after Me, let Him deny himself and take up His cross and follow me. For whoever would save His life will lose it, but whoever loses His life for my sake and the gospel’s will save it. For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? For what can a man give in return for his soul? For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”
(Mar 8:34-38)
Max said- Obama gives me a sense that his soul is not for sale. Not even the prize of the Presidency of the United States can tempt him.
Max do you remember this ??
Barack Obama used 500K in donations to refurbish and repaint his campaign plane, and has removed the flag of the United States from the tail of the plane.
The plane that once had an American flag on its tail now sports the Obama “O.” “Change We Can Believe In” and the candidate’s website are splayed across both sides of the fuselage, making this 757 anything but inconspicuous.
As an American citizen, I am deeply concerned that the Democratic party has nominated a candidate who is solely focused on displaying his OWN image and symbols rather than those of his party and his country.
Not only is his plane’s symbolism unpatriotic, it is also narcissistic.
I’ll end with ANOTHER Eisenhower quote:
“Any man who wants to be president is either an egomaniac or crazy.”



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johnchiar

posted October 27, 2008 at 9:25 pm


please go google . john mccain pro life what a joke. you will see a article by chuck baldwin. in the article . it says john mccain voted for pro -abortion justice stephen breyer and radical pro- abortion ruth bader ginsburg . for supremcourt under clintion.john mccain and other republicains dont want to over turn roe vs wade . they just decieve the church for votes . please wake up and see the truth look it up



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cam2

posted October 28, 2008 at 1:14 am


I agree with Max’s comments. I’m a registered Republican and a strong Christian who’s already early-voted for Obama. It saddens me to see members of my own party tearing themselves and others up, circulating innuendos and falsehood, and going into a state of denial when it comes to McCain’s bad choice of a running mate.



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Anon

posted October 28, 2008 at 5:55 am


i’m going to pray for the people on here spewing hatred and division. it’s truly frightening.
and please, if you are going to quote the 5th commandment don’t apply it selectively
murder is murder anyway you look at it
mccain is supports abortion in the case of rape, incest, or health to the mother. he goes back and forth between overturning roe v. wade and banning it. if he were to overturn it, he said, it’d become a states’ rights issue. which means it’d still be happening. unless he were to make it completely 100% illegal – like drugs – then he’d still be allowing it to happen. that would make him a pro-choice candidate. palin favors making abortion illegal in all cases but she acknowledged in her charlie gibson interview that mccain does not share her position.
mccain and palin favor the death penalty… that’s condoning murder. taking a life is taking a life.
mccain and palin support war. in fact, john mccain was one of the leading proponents for the iraq war. over 4,000 us soldiers have died since we went over there. war = murder
palin’s daughter had pre-marital sex
mccain is an admitted adulterer and gambler
both have lied, repeatedly, on the campaign trail
both have promoted division on the campaign trail (real america vs. fake america)
both have condoned religious hatred (anti-arab, anti-islam, anti-muslim)
mccain supports states’ rights and marriage for gay couples – condoning homosexuality
there’s a whole long list of things i could go through but it’d be pointless. if you’re going to hold one candidate to a religious standard, hold the other candidate to a religious standard. chances are you won’t be able to vote for a politician.
I’m really curious – ca someone please explain to me why one life has more value than the other?
I see so many people angered about abortion … but I rarely, if ever, see this same people angered about the War in Iraq, or the death penalty. i don’t see these people crying foul on torture… genocide… katrina… high infant mortality rates in the US… children without healthcare… foster care children…poverty…racial inequality… it saddens me that people can claim righteousness and use abortion as their weapon of choice, but conveniently overlook the rest of the horrors of the world, or willingly ignore the fact that your candidate supports those horrors.
i agree with chuck hagel – stop using religion as a political weapon and be an informed open-eyed voter. he’s an extremely conservative republican, Christian, pro-life, anti-war… and he’s voting for Obama.



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Just Wondering

posted October 28, 2008 at 3:04 pm


Anon thinks war = murder.
Then the men and women in the military are murderers? Should America disband the military and let all those serving their country go home?
Do you know about the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution? It is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the individual right to keep and bear arms. Any idea why the founders found that right important?



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Max

posted October 28, 2008 at 3:21 pm


Obama’s opponents scrape the bottom trying to show his alleged disloyalty to the United States.
The flag of the United States is displayed on the side of Obama’s campaign plane. A stylized version was removed from the tail partially because it was the registered trademark of North American Aviation.
To see a picture of the current display go to
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/airplane.asp
With that out of the way, think again



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Max

posted October 28, 2008 at 3:41 pm


One of Jesus’ sayings that I call to mind whenever I think about Obama’s candidacy is the following “What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his on soul”. Obama gives me a sense that his soul is not for sale. Not even the prize of the Presidency of the United States can tempt him. By and large he has consistently refused to take the low road of character assassination and false propaganda. He has not given up to his campaign the one thing he cannot afford to lose, his self respect, his integrity. This is the source of his imperturbable manner, his good humored optimism regardless of the state of the race.
In an age when we expect our politicians to be dishonest, it has been difficult for his opponents to understand this basic integrity of character. Many voters are hungry for this kind of integrity and as they are gradually convinced that Obama is real, they will continue to flock to his candidacy.
On the other hand McCain has shown himself to be a flawed character. He has lied on a wide range of subjects. He claims to put country first, but he chose his vice president solely to energize his extremist base, with no concern whatsoever for the good of the country. Everyone knows it, though he continues to claim otherwise. He has sold his soul and his reputation in what many independent observers have described as the most dishonorable campaign for the presidency ever run.
President Eisenhower once explained “It is important that when the President of the United States speaks, he is believed”. If you too believe character is important in your president, how can you continue to support McCain.



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THINK AGAIN

posted October 28, 2008 at 4:49 pm


“Obama’s opponents scrape the bottom trying to show his alleged disloyalty to the United States.”
Max–
You misjudge me. I’ve barely gotten started:
Remember Obama saying “The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin. Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we’re talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security. I decided I won’t wear that pin on my chest.” to cover for not wearing the American flag pin.
Remember Obama’s wife Michelle saying “What we have learned over this year is that hope is making a comeback. It is making a comeback. And let me tell you something — for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country.”
Remember Obama’s mentor and pastor of twenty years saying “the US of KKK” and “Not God bless America– God damn America”.
Remember Obama’s longtime neighbor and unrepentant terrorist associate, Bill Ayers stomping on the American flag. The photo was taken in 2001- the same time Barack Obama served on the Woods Fund Board with Ayers. This was also the same time that Ayers donated to Obama’s campaign.
Remember when Obama had a new personal seal made for himself- which resembled the official presidential seal, had a picture of a bald eagle on it. Only it had the phrase inscribed above it reading “Vero Possumus,” a Latin expression that sort of translates to the his slogan, “Yes, we can” not “E Pluribus Unum”.
Remember Obama sharing his admiration for his childhood mentor and father figure “Frank” in his first autobiography? Turns out that was well known communist Frank Marshall Davis- who fled Chicago after the FBI and Congress opened investigations into his “subversive,” “un-American activities.
Did you know the Los Angeles Times has in its possession a videotape that it says shows Barack Obama praising a Chicago professor who was an alleged mouthpiece for the Palestine Liberation Organization while it was a designated terrorist group in the 1970s and ’80s.
According the LA Times- Obama was a “friend and frequent dinner companion” of Rashid Khalidi. He is a fierce critic of American foreign policy and of Israel. The Khalidis often babysat for the Obama children. Bill Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dorhn were also at party and seen on the tape. Any idea what they are speaking about on that video?



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THINK AGAIN

posted October 28, 2008 at 5:02 pm


Wow Max–
There’s lots left on the bottom I’m scrapping.
Did you know
“Seven years before Barack Obama’s “spread the wealth” comment to Joe the Plumber became a GOP campaign theme, the Democratic presidential candidate said in a radio interview the U.S. has suffered from a fundamentally flawed Constitution that does not mandate or allow for redistribution of wealth.
In a newly unearthed tape, Obama is heard telling Chicago’s public station WBEZ-FM in 2001 that “redistributive change” is needed, pointing to what he regarded as a failure of the U.S. Supreme Court under Chief Justice Earl Warren in its rulings on civil rights issues in the 1960s.
The Warren court, he said, failed to “break free from the essential constraints” in the U.S. Constitution and launch a major redistribution of wealth. But Obama, then an Illinois state lawmaker, said the legislative branch of government, rather than the courts, probably was the ideal avenue for accomplishing that goal.
In the 2001 interview, Obama said:
“If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to invest formal rights in previously dispossessed people, so that now I would have the right to vote. I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it I’d be OK.
But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it’s been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can’t do to you. Says what the federal government can’t do to you, but doesn’t say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf.
And that hasn’t shifted and one of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court-focused I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change. In some ways we still suffer from that.”
You can listen to this interview on utube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck



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Your Name

posted October 28, 2008 at 7:56 pm


I have not got the time to discredit all your statements. We all know about Rev. Wright. I support a woman’s right to choose but I do not walk out of Mass when my pastor calls abortion murder.
The mainstream press has abundantly rebutted the argument that by serving on the same Education Committee with Ayers many years after Ayers allegedly committed acts of terrorism, Obama was consorting with terrorists. In fact thousands of education professionals have signed a protest pointing out that at the time Obama served with Ayers he was a respected professor in the field of education.
What you are employing is the kitchen sink approach. No one has the time to rebut all these rediculous charges.
Here are some allegations to help you get the point.
When are you going to stop beating your wife?
When are you going to tell her about that secretary you are seeing on the side?
When are you going to stop cheating on your expense account?
When are you going to stop falsifying your income tax returns?
Let me know when you have proved your innocence.



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Only 666 is missing

posted October 28, 2008 at 8:35 pm


***THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BUT ME***
Obama be thy Name
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PDehlPWsdQ
Obama should quit encouraging stuff like this with his “a light will shine down” speeches and his tacit approval of being called “the one”. He should stand up and tell his followers loud and clear to SHUT UP..



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Charles Lingerfelt

posted October 29, 2008 at 11:25 am


I am praying for God’s Will, of course, and I believe His Will to be that Senator John McCain and Governor Sarah Palin will be elected on November 4th, and that he will lead our nation back to God- 2 Chronicles 7:14.
Sincerely,as I pray,
Charles Lingerfelt
Dallas, Texas USA



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Yeah- I'm Pre-Deortained Too

posted October 29, 2008 at 12:33 pm


On this utube BigTime Obama Supporter Spike Lee says
Time will be changed to BB (before barrack) and AB (after barrack). Someone needs to tell him his hero Obama is NOT Jesus Christ. And while you are at it tell him if he lives in Mahattan and votes in Brooklyn- his vote is ILLEGAL. Maybe he gets his voting advice from ACORN.
Spike Lee Says Obama ‘Pre-Deortained’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUYOLsweysc



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Dave McClellan

posted October 29, 2008 at 12:40 pm


I was just pondering words that sound alike
Obamanation
abomination



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Tom Wieland

posted October 29, 2008 at 12:53 pm


The problem Obama has is not just that he served on boards with Bill Ayers, sought support for Ayers when he started his political career, spoke from the same platforms with Ayers, or that Ayers continues to be unrepentant of his radical, violent terrorist background (2001 comment Ayers made in an interview about his autobiography “we did not do enough” in the 60s bombings by the radical leftist group Ayers led), but that Obama lied when he debated Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination about his association with Ayers, and continues to lie about this. When confronted by Mrs. Clinton about Obama’s association with Bill Ayers, Obama said that Bill Ayers was just a guy that “lived in my neighborhood.” Why would Obama lie? Obama could have literally killed all speculation about his association with Ayers, Ayer’s wife, and the other radical lefties he used to be friends with by just saying something like, “Hey, when I was young and didn’t know any better I hung around with some people that had some pretty crazy ideas about radical approaches to government. My maturing over time and my experience has taught me how radical these people were, and I now have no contact with them, and I now renounce their philosophies and ideas.” If he did that the whole Ayers problem would have died. BUT HE CHOSE TO LIE INSTEAD!!! All of us now have to ask, “WHY?” Barak has the most radical, brutal, cold-hearted, voting records in favor of any form of abortion at any time for any reason with no constraint. Even Teddy Kennedy does not share Barak Obama’s position on this. Obama even opposed the resuscitation and nurture of babies born alive despite a botched abortion attempt. How can a person of faith support this man on those grounds alone? Wake up American Christians!



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Max

posted October 29, 2008 at 1:47 pm


I have no further time for these bigotted attempts to damn Obama by association. Ayers was simply not a factor in Obama’s life. This is probably what his “in the neighborhood” comment meant. Are you suggesting that when one of the wealthiest most respected Republicans (Annenburg) forms a committee to look into the improvement of education in underserved communities, Obama should have refused the invitation because Ayers had also been invited to serve. This is rediculous.
Meanwhile McCain has associations far more dangerous that Ayers.
His foreign policy adviser was the paid lobbyist of a foreign nation.
He celebrated his birthday on the yacht of a Putin oligarch.
Augustus Pinnochet.
He gambles for high stakes at casinos he regulates etc. etc.
I am being distracted from my purpose on this site. I must admit to being a 79 year old idealist. There are lots of other spites spewing this right wing false propaganda. I hoped that on a so called Christian site we could deal with things of the spirit.
What kind of men have we seen over the past two years? A candidate can say he believes anything for a vote. But how does he conduct himself under pressure. How doe he react when he himself is threatened. Does he get nasty or does he conduct hiself with grace and even compassion. As the old British aristocracy used to say “Does he carry his drink like a Gentleman”.
I think I can almost say of Obama “He nothing did common or mean on that memorable scene” the 2008 Presidential Campaign. That’s the kind of man I want for my leader.



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My Personal Favorite

posted October 29, 2008 at 2:13 pm


Max you are not the only man to see something “extraordinary” in Barack Obama:
Farrakhan calls Barack Obama the Messiah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT9nYjqTL10
Of course as a Muslim- Louis Farrakhan’s “messiah” is the long awaited Mahdi- In Islamic eschatology the Mahdi (???? Mahd?, also Mehdi; “Guided One”) is the prophesied redeemer of Islam who will stay on earth seven, nine, or nineteen years before the coming of the day, Yaum al-Qiyamah (literally “Day of the Resurrection” or “Day of the Standing”). Muslims believe the Mahdi will rid the world of error, injustice and tyranny alongside Jesus.
PLEASE TAKE TIME TO WATCH THIS UTUBE BEFORE YOU VOTE.



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Max

posted October 29, 2008 at 2:20 pm


I really am surprised to see so much bitter, hostile, false stuff on a website catering to followers of Jesus. I mean, even in the Old Testament it says “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor”.
It seems to me that passing on negative rumors without troubling to check for truth meets the definition of false witness.
What do you folks think?!



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Roy York

posted October 29, 2008 at 2:46 pm


What really scares me is the people who are seeing that Mr. Obama has something that is found in fairy tales!
As you can see that Mr Obama has no family values and wants to turn this country into another socialist state and who works for a living must give to the people with there hands out. The Lord helps them that helps themselves.
This country believes that the Bible and The Good Lord is all wrong, they have been listening to man not God Almighty.
Mr. Obama has no belief in the destruction of babies, it seems to me that maybe he (Mr. Obama) wants this country to be another Hilter’s Germany, must be a perfect child, we all are God’s people and made into His image not man.
All we can do is pray for America and hope is all we have left for the people to open their eyes and see just what man is doing (Mr. Obama)let us all pray for America and the world, and the people will see the light in these next seven days.
Read Revelations and if you can’t see what is happening you must believe in something other than The Good Lord.
Just remember this The Good Lord loves you and so does this man!!



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JAC

posted October 29, 2008 at 3:06 pm


To say “Ayers was simply not a factor in Obama’s life” is both naive and a denial of the truth. It is supporter’s of Obama like this who won’t bother to research the facts or find out exactly who their candidate is and who he has surrounded himself all of his life. Who he has spent much time with all of his life and what those people believe and and preach DOES matter when looking at a presidential candidate’s character and judgment. You have to ask, why would he surround himself and spend time with such people? Why would these people choose to associate with Obama? IT MATTERS. It is NOT bigoted to vet a candidate when the media refuses to. obama DID toast and praise Rashid Khalidi, a spokesperson of PLO, at a party that was also attended by Ayers in 2003. With Ayers, who to this day does not regret bombing various sites in America, and Khalidi, along with the MANY other questionable and subversive people in Obama’s life, either past or present, IT IS IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER when factoring in our national security under a new president.



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Judy

posted October 29, 2008 at 3:47 pm


I did not vote for Obama because of his obvious hatred of unborn and born children. He is an advocate of infanticide…he voted against providing medical care for babies born alive due to botched abortions. Without the right to life, you have nothing. The company you keep DOES reflect your character (or lack thereof). My generation is perhaps the last generation who was taught what Communism and Socialism really are. The liberal Hollywood elitists are ignorant in thinking that mainstream America wants Socialism. Redistribution of wealth will stifle growth, cost more lost jobs and WILL ruin the economy. There are SO many reasons to vote against Obama that I can’t even begin to list them all here. Save America….Vote FOR McCain/Palin!!!!!!



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Sursum corda

posted October 29, 2008 at 5:06 pm


Christian believers:
Take time to worship and renew your spirit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh9VVdfyNLk



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Robert

posted October 29, 2008 at 5:24 pm


A comment I’d be glad to read is exactly what the law would be that establishes the pro-life or anti-abortion position so many of the commenters here hold so dear. We’re pretty clear on what you don’t want. What is it you do want?



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Still an American

posted October 29, 2008 at 5:36 pm


Max, you are not the only man who finds Obama extraordinary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT9nYjqTL10
Must view before you vote.



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Richard

posted October 29, 2008 at 6:54 pm


I would say we,convicted not anti, but Pro-Life people, want not law but to see human responsiblity for actions as a general way of Life. In my understanding those you refer to as ones who (your)clear about what you:know what they don’t want,seems the opposite of death is Life . I would like some questions answered my self. 1.Why do you want choice period? 2.If it was you in that womb would you choose death?,and 3.As a male do you know at all what abortion does to her? Why not work out a humane way to provide for the mother and baby that will allow them both to enjoy LIFE, scar free,to the fullness of both thier potentials and stop importing babys from the third world if it would not be preferred or financially possible by potential parents and provide financial support,& love for mother&baby here in the USA?



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Selbourne

posted October 29, 2008 at 7:05 pm


Jac,
It seems to me that it is those who seek to libel Obama who do not take the trouble to check their facts. I see where another writer called this bearing false witness.
All the major news organizations have reported on Obama’s releationship with Ayers and everyone I have read or seen CNN, MSNBC, Time Magazine, News Week agree that there was no close association between these two men.
It says a lot for Obama that almost every criticism I have read on this site is based on a lie. Many are repeats of McCain’s claims that have been repeatedly denounced in the press. They are repeats of the claims that have led several prominent Republicans to denounce McCain’s campaign as dishonorable.
I wander these ‘Christian’ websites like an internet Diogenes with no better luck than he had.



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EDUCATE YOURSELF

posted October 29, 2008 at 9:13 pm


Selbourne you have a computer. Go to google.com and do a search for:
Ayers Dohrn Obama
You will find that–
–Obama accepted cash political contributions from Ayers and Dohrn, not as an 8-year-old, but as a “community organizer” ready to launch his campaign for the Illinois Legislature in 2001.
–Michelle Obama worked at the same law firm as Ms. Dohrn
–Obama launched his first bid for political office in the living room of their home in 1995.
–From 1995 through 2001, Obama was chairman of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, while Ayers served as chairman of the foundation’s education arm. Together, they helped give tens of millions of dollars away to promote radical indoctrination in Chicago schools. Obama cited his experience at the foundation as the basis for his qualifications for his failed bid for a seat in the House of Representatives in 2000.
–Michelle Obama invited Ayers to speak to a conference she organized in 1997.
–Barack Obama endorsed Ayers’ book in 1997 – a book that references Ayers’ neighbor, Obama.
You will find Ayers and Dohrn are well known unrepentant terrorists who have said and done some really despicable things. They are far left marxists.
Do a google search for:
Obama Frank Davis Marshall
You will find that–
–In his biography of Barack Obama, David Mendell writes about Obama’s life as a “secret smoker” and how he “went to great lengths to conceal the habit.” But what about Obama’s secret political life? It turns out that Obama’s childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a communist.
In his books, Obama admits attending “socialist conferences” and coming into contact with Marxist literature. But he ridicules the charge of being a “hard-core academic Marxist,” which was made by his colorful and outspoken 2004 U.S. Senate opponent, Republican Alan Keyes.
However, through Frank Marshall Davis, Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his “poetry” and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just “Frank.”
The reason is apparent: Davis was a known communist who belonged to a party subservient to the Soviet Union. In fact, the 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities to the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii identified him as a CPUSA member. What’s more, anti-communist congressional committees, including the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), accused Davis of involvement in several communist-front organizations.
Trevor Loudon, a New Zealand-based libertarian activist, researcher and blogger, noted evidence that “Frank” was Frank Marshall Davis in a posting in March of 2007.
Go to youtube.com and search for:
Obama: I Chose My Friends Carefully… Including Marxists
You will find that Obama admitted in his first book “Dreams of My Father” that he used to carefully seek out Marxist friends. Obama did the reading in the audiobook.
You will hear him say:
“To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist Professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.”
Bonus- do a google search for:
Obama Ayers Rashid Khalidi



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Aggie Bird

posted October 29, 2008 at 10:22 pm


Is it not alright to have a copy of your email? It has a lot of really good information that I would like to keep and also send on to other people on my list. That is as honest as I can be



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Anonymous

posted October 29, 2008 at 10:46 pm


Even though I knew that the way Google works, associating those three names “ayers, dohm, Obama” would list only sites that saw a connection,
I took you up on your suggestion and drew a list of websites I never heard of. The only name I recognized on the first few pages was “www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8630.html – 179k – Cached – Similar pages”
So I read what was there and do not see how that story supports your allegations.
If you want to educate yourself, you have to be a little bit selective. These days every right wing nut with a few dollars can have a website. An educated person can’t simply regurgitate indiscriminately whatever they write.



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Anonymous

posted October 29, 2008 at 11:03 pm


Look what I found on Wikpedia about William Ayers. There is more to this man than you let on.
^ a b Ayers, William (Summer 1992). “The shifting ground of curriculum thought and everyday practice”. Theory Into Practice 31 (3): 259-263. ISSN 0040-5841. Retrieved on 2008-10-07. “The author has been an active participant in the Chicago school upheaval for many years. He has written widely about Chicago schools, and from September 1989 to June 1990, he served as assistant deputy mayor for education in Chicago, responsible for educational activities for local school councils. He is currently chair of an activist coaltion, the Alliance for Better Chicago Schools (ABCs).”



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EDUCATE YOURSELF

posted October 29, 2008 at 11:18 pm


First Selbourne- use your own name NOT MINE when you post.
Everything in my first post is factual.
Barack and Michelle Obama were close associates of Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. They worked together for over ten years in Chicago and lived in the same neighborhood. Its a fact.
In his book Obama said he has sought out “MARXIST PROFESSORS” as friends. That in his own words– straight out of his mouth. Anyone can do the search on utube I suggested and hear him speak the words.
In his book Obama tells of his close relationship as a child with a black poet “Frank”. He has admitted that his childhood mentor “Frank” was known COMMUNIST Frank Davis Marshall. Its a fact.
His pastor and mentor for twenty years Jeremish Wright is a devotee of James Cone- the founder of Black Liberation Theology which is based on MARXIST ideology. Its a fact.
CHECK THE FACTS.
Bonus-
Do a utube search for:
Explosive Audio Found Obama arguing against BAIPA
In this audio Obama coldly claims two doctors helping a baby born alive after a botched abortion would be a burden for the aborting mother when he is arguing against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act at the Illinois state legislature April 2002
Selbourne- listen to Obama say
“…and that, essentially, adding an additional doctor who then has to be called in an emergency situation to come in and make these assessments is really designed simply to burden the original decision of the woman and the physician to induce labor and perform an abortion…”
Obama clearly believes a child born alive after a botched abortion should be left to die according to the mother and abortionist’s original desire.
Its a fact.



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EDUCATE YOURSELF

posted October 29, 2008 at 11:32 pm


“Look what I found on Wikpedia about William Ayers. There is more to this man than you let on.”
Gosh Selbourne (or whoever you are using my name)- here’s something else from wiki:
RED STAR: The five-pointed red star, a pentagram without the inner pentagon, is a symbol of communism as well as broader socialism in general. It is sometimes understood to represent the five fingers of the worker’s hand, as well as the five continents. A lesser known suggestion is that the five points on the star were intended to represent the five social groups that would lead Russia to communism: the youth, the military, the industrial labourers, the agricultural workers or peasantry, and the intelligentsia. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels used the red star as a symbol
Now go to a utube search for:
The O’Reilly Factor confronts Bill Ayers
Oreilly is the only one who has sent someone to confront Bill Ayers. This happened very recently. See what is on Bill Ayers shirt? It is a large RED STAR. Bill Ayers is an unrepentant Marxist terrorist who hates America.
Its a fact.



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Barbara

posted October 30, 2008 at 4:52 am


I have been a wreck through this entire campaign. I’ve decided that putting it in God’s hands is the only way to keep my sanity. I’ve prayed about the outcome everyday since the campaign started. I’m encouraged to hear that most religious organizations and churches are speaking up to their congregations to get out there and vote ktheir beliefs–I suppose you can guess who I’ll be voting for!



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Matthew

posted October 30, 2008 at 2:05 pm


Its a fact, said the parrot. Its a fact.
Continue to use that word you’ll deaden its meaning. Speculation doesn’t provide quantifiable truth and throwing in symbolism as evidence is as sad and pathetic as the conspiracy theorists trying to prove the existence of the Illuminati, the Elders of Zion etc. etc.



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vIR eTARMIS

posted October 30, 2008 at 2:10 pm


John MCCain is the chosen one of conservative Christians. I urge you all to pray as hard and as often as you can to your God that he wins.
As an Obama supporter, I shall raise an altar of burnt offerings to Loki while I dance naked in the forest. I may also throw a stray goat to Thor and Odin.
By Wednesday we will see whose god(s) is/are more mighty. Mark it well.



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Vi et Armis

posted October 30, 2008 at 3:11 pm


“By Wednesday we will see whose god(s) is/are more mighty. Mark it well.”
Salve Vir, have you noticed that Obama’s running mate keeps committed Balaam’s error? Poor poor Balak.



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Max

posted October 30, 2008 at 3:23 pm


As a young man I read Marx, Mein Kampf, C. S. Lewis and listened to Billy Graham. But I did not become a Communist, a Nazi, a Catholic or a Fundamentalist. I feel a little guilty for never having investigated what Muslims actually believe. So I see nothing incriminating in the fact that Obama has an enquring mind. In fact this is one of the reasons I support him.
A Community Organizer does not work with communities of successful people. By definition a failed community is the logical abode of misfits, ex criminals, and the unfortunate. So a man who devotes his early career to the service of failed communities will encounter and indeed work with failed people. It makes no more sense to hold this kind of association against Obama than it does to blame a police detective for associating with felons.
In case you guys don’t know, Jesus made this same point to the Fundamentalists of his day when they questioned his association with sinners
“those that are well have no need of a physician, but those that are sick have need of him.”



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Much Afraid

posted October 30, 2008 at 4:21 pm


Forgive me for pointing this out vIR eTARMIS, but you are speaking foolishly. Better to trust that God indeed is strong, and that His will can be done in this election. You’re (hopefully) tongue in cheek challenge is misguided – how do you know that God is in favor of McCain/Palin? Even Ahab claimed ‘God was on his side’ and he was destroyed in battle -
2 Chronicles 21 ” ‘I will go and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said. ” ‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the LORD. ‘Go and do it.’
Even a cursory reading of James, and of Jesus’ teachings about the rich and the poor, should lead you to believe that Barak Obama would be more likely to lead America down a path that honors God through action and not just words – as Jesus said – (quoting Isaiah):
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
Nothing in the past 8 years has shown me that the supposed ‘champions’ of Christianity in power now have anything even close to a clue about how to do this. My read on Obama’s past actions, his history, and his commitment to those who are less well off tells me that he has internalized his faith in ways that is tragically rare in today’s “Religious Right”.
I leave you with these words from the book of James:
1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don’t show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
2:5 Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?
~~~~~
14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.



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Your Name

posted October 30, 2008 at 4:43 pm


I read on a website that Fundamentalist Evangelicals believe that once you have accepted Jesus as your “personal savior”, thus accepting his sacrifice for your sins, you will inherit eternal life regardless of your subsequent behavior.
I thought this was a libel. After all Jesus did make his criteria perfectly clear on at least three occasions that I call to mind, and they were somewhat more rigorous. It seems to me that we mortals may add criteria (like gay marriage and abortion) of our own to differentiate us from less pious people, but do we have the right to discard Jesus specific criteria?
What about “In as much as ye do it unto the least of these my brethren, ye do it unto me”.
Perhaps Obama is too hung up on Jesus teaching. I heard hims say last night that his personal philosophy was based around the idea “I am my brother’s keeper”. He would certainly be more popular on this webite if he was selling predatory mortgages to the poor but campaigning against abortion and gay marriage.
This just does not compute. I am nearly eighty so may be I am losing some of my powers of comprehension. Help!!



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Vir et Armis

posted October 30, 2008 at 4:58 pm


Much Afraid:
Let the satanist show himself. Even if he does not know it- it is clear the enemy speaks through him. Foolish demons can’t keep quiet. Even al Qaeda has placed a video on the internet.
fron Reuters:
“An al Qaeda leader has called for President George W. Bush and the Republicans to be “humiliated,” without endorsing any party in the upcoming U.S. presidential election, according to a video posted on the Internet.
“O God, humiliate Bush and his party, O Lord of the Worlds, degrade and defy him,” Abu Yahya al-Libi said at the end of sermon marking the Muslim feast of Eid al-Fitr, in a video posted on the Internet.
Libi, one of the top al Qaeda commanders believed to be living in Afghanistan or Pakistan, called for God’s wrath to be brought against Bush equating him with past tyrants in history.
The remarks were the first comments from a leading al Qaeda figure referring, albeit indirectly, to the U.S. elections. Muslim clerics often end sermons by calling on God to guide and support Muslims and help defeat their enemies.”
Its not frightening. Seek the LORD while He may be found. Call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts. And let him return to the LORD, and He will have compassion on him, and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.
And will someone tell Max that CS Lewis is an Anglican not Catholic. Billy Graham is a Baptist evangelical and not a fundamentalist. And Obama has been mentored by communist Frank and his Pastor Wright the Black Liberation Theologist (marxist). Obama did not mentor them.
“The LORD will fight for you while you keep silent.”
Exodus 14:14



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Tom

posted October 30, 2008 at 11:23 pm


I can fine a Psalm that would actually support killing kids if taken literally. O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. That is Psalm 137- 8 and 9. I dont think that is what God meant. But I can find no scripture that says killing unborn kids is wrong in Gods eyes. I personally think abortion is wrong. But I dont believe that any one has the right to force someone to have a kid they dont want. That is force slavery for 9 months. When does a life that is not out of womb take more presence than a life outside of the womb. If God was so against abortion could he not prevent it from happening. He has the power to change or hearts and minds to where that could happen. Perhaps it is his plan in the long run to make that happen. But the reason he has not done it. Is that we are not ready for it. If we were there would be no children going hungary. No children who medical needs are not being met. No children being in homes were they are not wanted. Perhaps when we actually can provide for the all the children who are here now and none of them are abused or unwanted than he will turn our hearts to the point where abortion would not be something that would be consider a viable option by anyone. To me the issue of abortion should come secondary the issue we should focus on more now is the kids that are here not the ones that may or may not come to term. As to who I will vote for its Ralph Nader because both of the main stream candiates have some very questionable things about them.



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Much Afraid

posted October 30, 2008 at 11:57 pm


Vir et Armis – first off, I am not personally ‘afraid’ – the pen-name I chose is a reference to Hannah Hunnard’s main character in “Hind’s Feet in High Places” – just so we’re clear on that point. Second, I am anything but silent – but I do believe the Lord will fight for His truth.
Please also understand, I am no fan of Al Qaeda or their evil tactics, or of Marxism, or any of that nonsense – but I would like to remind you – in the Old Testament, a supposedly godly nation which went astray was judged by the most ruthless, demonic, and violent nation of their time – the Assyrians.
I pray that this is not what we are facing now, but I cannot discount the fact that God often works in extremely mysterious ways to correct his own – see 2 Kings 17 in particular – yet remember that God protected His people, even under judgment, and brought distress to the Assyrians until they acknowledged God and His people in their worship. Of course, eventually Israel was restored, and Assyrian came under judgment – but God still used them. We need to be very careful to be extremely humble about how we view ‘what God is doing’ in our midst.
From Isaiah 10
1 Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed;
2 To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!
3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?
4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.
8 For he saith, Are not my princes altogether kings?
We need to understand that just because our leaders ‘say’ they are Christians, if by their actions they continue to ‘grind the face of the poor’, there will be consequences.
and of course, similarly, nations which rail against us also need to understand that God’s chastisement of us is a ‘family issue’ and they boast to their peril – again from Isaiah:
12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.
13 For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:
14 And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathereth eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.
15 Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.
16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;
18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standard-bearer fainteth.
19 And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them.
20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
I stand by my original premise – I am ashamed of those who name the name of Jesus for political and financial gain, but by their actions deny Him.



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Vir et Armis

posted October 31, 2008 at 11:31 am


Hi Much Afraid-
You say
“I am not personally ‘afraid’ -the pen-name I chose is a reference to Hannah Hunnard’s main character in “Hind’s Feet in High Places” – just so we’re clear on that point.”
I read “Hinds Feet in High Places” when I was in the fifth grade. I thought “Much Afraid” was much afraid until she follows the Shepherd to the mountain and becomes “Grace and Glory”. But maybe I misremember. Anyway we are clear now.
You say
“We need to be very careful to be extremely humble about how we view ‘what God is doing’ in our midst.”
I agree. When God’s judgment falls- it is a fearful thing for a nation. I wouldn’t want to miss the will of God, align myself with Assyrians, and mistakenly make myself an enemy of God.
You say
“I am no fan of Al Qaeda or their evil tactics, or of Marxism, or any of that nonsense”
I see you have read Hannah Hunnard- what about Hannah Arendt? She wrote “The Origins of Totalitarianism” and had a front seat in observing marxism and all of that nonsense in the last century.
She said
“Totalitarianism is never content to rule by external means, namely, through the state and a machinery of violence; thanks to its peculiar ideology and the role assigned to it in this apparatus of coercion, totalitarianism has discovered a means of dominating and terrorizing human beings from within.”
and
“The trouble with Eichmann was precisely that so many were like him, and that the many were neither perverted nor sadistic, that they were, and still are, terribly and terrifyingly normal. From the viewpoint of our legal institutions and of our moral standards of judgment, this normality was much more terrifying than all the atrocities put together.”
Since one of our presidential candidates has admittedly spent most of his life under the mentorship of men espousing socialism, marxism, and communism- it is good to have a complete understand of these ideologies so we may identify them and form our own opinions.
Best wishes.



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Edna Green

posted October 31, 2008 at 11:52 am


God is love. If we are His children, then we must be that love here on earth.I voted for Obama. That was my choice after watching and listening to him and after constant prayer. If McCain wins, I will support him. I don’t know what the future holds. I do know that God holds the future. God is in control regardless of who is president. He told us not to put our trust in princes (or leaders). He also told us, through Paul, to pray for our leaders. If our leaders fail, could it be because we did not persistently pray for them? We donot dictate to God. We pray that we know His will. He is the potter. We are the clay. We are foolish when we demand our own way. If we think and spew out hatred, that is not of God. Search yourself and see if you are in the faith. We will stand before God one day. This is a fact. Will you be on the left or the right. Will He say “Well done” or “I know thee not.” If you are truly a child of God, act like it.



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Much Afraid

posted October 31, 2008 at 12:30 pm


Well said Vir et Armis – but communism, socialism, marxism are all pale counterfiets of Christian social justice – Acts: 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and brought the prices of the things that were sold… and many other places throughout the New Testament.
And I agree, unlike those ideologies, yes, this was not forced by the government, and there is the rub. As far as Eichmann and Hitler, much of what was done there was done initially ‘in the name of the church – or God, and certainly in the interest of the ‘people’ – until they were subsumed and overthrown. This is one thing that so clearly differentiates fascism from those other ideologies.
But oddly, the ‘right’ also wants the government to ‘force’ many social agendas – from banning gay marriage, to abortion; and of course, I don’t approve of either, but I’m not entirely sure it’s fully a ‘government’ issue – but that is a much longer discussion, perhaps for trained constitutional lawyers.Suffice it to say that our families and churches have not done a terribly good job in these areas, seemingly desiring to fall back on wanting the government to dictate these actions for us to save us the trouble of raising up our children properly so we can have more time to enjoy those second homes, vacations, and fancy automobiles.
But I would agree that indeed “…this normality was much more terrifying than all the atrocities put together.” It is exactly this normality in regard to our current administration’s actions with regard to the poor, to the stripping away of constitutional protections, etc. – all things which lead us dangerously close to the horrors of the fascism of which she speaks.
So perhaps we may never agree on these points, but I very much enjoyed this discourse – best wishes to you as well. May God be glorified in whatever the outcome is next week.



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Your Name

posted October 31, 2008 at 12:46 pm


“If you are truly a child of God, act like it.”
Edna, you make a valuable point.
When we are choosing a leader- we must seek to know the man’s history of choices and actions and not rely on his words and oratory skills. We should learn who his close friends and associates are and attempt to study his history of confronting crisis as a man and as a leader.
Many men can inspire you through motivational speaking. Only a few men inspire and motivate through their own history. Many men say they will be the leader you need. Only a few men have shown that they can lead and endure.
***Talk no more so very proudly; let not arrogance go forth from your mouth, for the Lord is a God of knowledge, and by Him actions are weighed.



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Sherry Root

posted October 31, 2008 at 1:40 pm


Oh my, I am quite alarmed at the comments posted on this article by my brothers and sister in the faith. I personally will vote God’s agenda this election. I believe that He does highly esteem the poor…but even more than that, he places a high value on precious human life. Innocent babies in the womb. How can anyone say that the Christian mantle is being used for political gain? How do they know? Are they God, who alone can judge the heart? I imagine that they are referring to the Bush administraion…and now the Palin ticket. I believe that George Bush was the real deal…but then, like Saul, when the people began to scatter from him and the liberal media was lambasting him in the press for his faith…and his so called brothers and sisters in the faith began to attack and question his faith… he got weak in his flesh and began to make foolish choices…like saying that ALL people of faith…muslims included served the same God and would make it to heaven. That is when I noticed he began to be confounded in the eyes of the people…and he
began to make more and more mistakes. How about a little mercy here people?Have you tried for one second to put yourself in his place? Can you imagine the pressure? Yet we point the finger and speak wickedly against our own. We are to overcome evil with good, not act
like the world and ATTACK! No wonder the world does not want what we have…it looks just like what they already have…we need to get in one accord and support those who claim to know Christ…and leave the judgeing of the hearts up to God Almighty,who alone is qualified to see into the heart of man.



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Edna Green

posted October 31, 2008 at 1:52 pm


Your Name
I thoroughly agree. What you have said can be applied to both men. Both men have admirable qualities. Each has a past that inspires. I believe that each believes that he is the one to lead us into better times. The history of each condidate is important to review, but, it is as equally or more important to study each’s current judgment. This current judgment is what will affect our country, our very lives. I once was lost but now I am found. I am not the same person I was years ago. I have changed. I have evolved. It is what I am now that matters. Who is John McCain now? Who is Barack Obama now? Do we really know? Each has a strong personality and an arrogance to assume that he can be THE president that our country and world needs at this time in history. That is why I pray for both of them; that they each walk in integrity and truth; that they seek wise counsel; and that they each conrol their passions. Only God knows their hearts. Let us pray. After all, this election, this country, this world is in God’s hands.



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Vir et Armis

posted October 31, 2008 at 2:24 pm


Hi Much Afraid-
You say
“but communism, socialism, marxism are all pale counterfiets of Christian social justice-”
Well. Its a counterfeit of God. Hasn’t that been the enemy of God’s agenda ever since he rebelled by saying in his heart- “I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”
Maybe someday someone will bring this to the attention of Obama and his many fellow travellers.
You say
“But oddly, the ‘right’ also wants the government to ‘force’ many social agendas”
Isn’t our real concern the spread of Shari’ah law? Islam has bloody borders and darkness falls as Shari’ah (backed by the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood and the wealth of the Wahabis) gains foothold in the world.
Did you read the attempt to rehabilitate Rashid Khalidi in WaPo today? The bond between the far left and muslims is cemented by their well known mutual hatred of Israel and America.
“It is exactly this normality in regard to our current administration’s actions with regard to the poor..”
I recommend the readers here see “Trouble the Water” a documentary about Hurricane Katrina. The film shot in New Orleans’ Lower 9th Ward with a handheld camera before and during the storm makes a powerful statement. It is man and God who face the storm- not man and government.
“So perhaps we may never agree on these points”
Not until God brings us together on higher ground.
Pax vobiscum.



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Max

posted October 31, 2008 at 11:12 pm


On every anti-Obama website there is at least one correspondent who pesistently and systematically spreads false rumors about Obama. On this site that person is Vir et Armis. Every statement I have checked turns out to be either wholly or mostly false. He is willing to smear other persons and organizations to get at Obama. He cloaks his smears in religous cammoflage but they are garbage just the same. No right thinking peson should pay attention to his assertions.
CASE IN POINT
I see where he implies BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY is somhow communist or sympathetic to Communism. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Black Liberation Theology is an attempt by the Black Church to reconcile the vision of a loving God who loves all his children with the Hellish experience (i.e. slavery, forced labor, lynching) that Blacks endured in the southern states of this country for two hundred years.
Here is what the Wikpedia Encylopedia has to say about Black Liberation Theology.
“Black theology is a form of liberation theology that has its center in the theme of oppression of black people by white people.[1] According to James H. Cone, it came out of the “need for black people to define the scope and meaning of black existence in a white society”[citation needed], and emerged in the last two decades in the wave of liberation movements as an expression of “black consciousness”. Black theology is focused on the issues that blacks are confronted with on a daily basis.
[edit] Beliefs and doctrines
[edit] God
Intricate and largely philosophical views of God are largely ignored in preference for the concerns of the oppressed. White Christian concepts taught to black persons are to be disregarded or ignored. The aspects of God’s person, his power and authority, as well as “subtle indications of God’s white maleness” are said not to relate to the black experience, to the extent of sometimes being antagonistic. While trinitarian theology is a big concern, Jesus is still considered to be God. The focus is given to God’s actions, and his delivering of the oppressed because of his righteousness. Immanence is stressed over transcendence, and as a result God is seen to be “in flux” or “always changing”. [1]
[edit] Christ
Jesus is seen as a non-white, social liberator who focused on the emancipation of the poor and of the marginalized, and many parallel are made with the emancipation efforts of black people in the United States. Christ’s message is interpreted as encouraging “black power” (Henry). His intrinsic nature and spiritual activity receive little or no attention. Some even deny his role as the atoning sacrifice for the world’s sins and provider of eternal life (Shrine).
[edit] Revelation
Black theology is not bound to biblical liberalism, but is of a more pragmatic nature. Only the experience of black oppression is the authoritative standard.
[edit] Salvation
Salvation is freedom from the oppression and pertains to blacks in this life. Proponents of black theology are concerned specifically with the political and theological aspects of salvation more than the spiritual. In other words, salvation is physically liberation from white oppression, or “The white enemy” (Cone) rather than freedom from the sinful nature and acts of each individual person. Presenting heaven as a reward for following Christ is seen as an attempt to dissuade blacks from the goal of real liberation of their whole persons.”
[edit] Church
The church is the focus of social expression in the black community where the blacks can express freedom and equality (Cone). Thus the church and politics have formed a cohesion where the theological expression of the desire for social freedom is carried out.



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Vir et Armis

posted October 31, 2008 at 11:56 pm


Max says
“Here is what the Wikpedia Encylopedia has to say about Black Liberation Theology.”
Max somehow missed this from wiki-
“Theology scholar Dr. Robert A. Morley takes a dim view of black theology. Morley’s paper “The Goals Of Black Liberal Theology” is one widely quoted paper citing specific criticisms. He states that black theology turns religion into sociology, and Jesus into a black Marxist rebel. His view is that it makes statements against whites and Asians, promotes a poor self-image among blacks, and describes the black man as a helpless victim of forces and people beyond his control. He belives black theology calls for political liberation instead of spiritual salvation. According to political and religious writer Marie Jon, Morley believes it is not Bible-based, Christ-honoring theology.[15]
Anthony Bradley of the Christian Post interprets that the language of “economic parity” and references to “mal-distribution” as nothing more than channeling the views of Karl Marx. He believes James Cone and Cornel West have worked to incorporate Marxist thought into the black church, forming an ethical framework predicated on a system of oppressor class versus a victim much like Marxism.[16]
Stanley Kurtz of the National Review claims that “A scarcely concealed, Marxist-inspired indictment of American capitalism pervades contemporary ‘black-liberation theology’…The black intellectual’s goal, says Cone, is to “aid in the destruction of America as he knows it.” Such destruction requires both black anger and white guilt. The black-power theologian’s goal is to tell the story of American oppression so powerfully and precisely that white men will “tremble, curse, and go mad, because they will be drenched with the filth of their evil.”
Max accused me of spreading false rumors and said I imply “BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY is somhow communist or sympathetic to Communism. Nothing could be further from the truth.”
SHAME. SHAME. SHAME.
I will not be holding my breath waiting for an apology. In a spirit of forgiveness- I will release Max from his bearing of false witness against me.
Au revoir.



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Vir et Armis

posted November 1, 2008 at 12:14 am


TEN CANNOTS
-You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
-You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
-You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
-You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
-You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
-You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatreds.
-You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
-You cannot build character and courage by taking away a man’s initiative and independence.
-You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.
~William J. H. Boetcker, 1916



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Max

posted November 1, 2008 at 1:53 am


I appologize. The problem is not your evil intent but your sources. The three guys you quoted are not theologians but right wing activists with in some cases a probable racist axe to grind as well. Why not look instead at what the non denominational Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York has to say about Black Theology. This is the seminary at which Professor Cone teaches.
Look at http://www.utsnyc.edu/NETCOMMUNITY/Page.aspx?pid=967
Instead of trying to smear Professor Cone, we should ask ourselves how we came to create a religous environment in which black people feel a need to construct a theology to reconcile self respect with Christianity. I can understand why some writers would want to change the subject to communism.
Obama was raised mostly by a loving white mother and loving white grandparents. He fondly recalls watching astronauts land while sitting on the shoulders of his white grandfather who, he boasts, fought in Patton’s army. As a result I notice that on the campaign trail he has no problem being affectionate with white people.
It must have been very hard for him I guess to sympathize with the bitterness of the older black members of a black church, but as a man of empathy he probably understood the hurt behind the bitterness in older men like Rev. Wright who had been through the really bad times. I think this is why racial reconciliation is so important to Obama. Deep down I think he wants to inspire a society in which no one expect him to take sides.
I believe Jesus would approve of such a society. That’s one reason I voted for Obama.



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Max

posted November 1, 2008 at 9:09 am


I don’t understand how someone with knowledge of Christ could vote for someone who files in the face of Christianity. His platform of pro-choice and same-sex marriages are against the very nature of a Holy God. To think he is a promoter of partial-birth abortion makes me queasy. On that very issue alone I could never justify voting for a man who supports murder no matter how much my pocket book may benefit.
I find it interesting that after being taught for 20 years in the same church by the same man, Obama now feels the need to distance himself from them. Why? Because of their racial statements and beliefs – Did Obama just recently finally understand what had been taught for 20 years or did the election help him make that choice? How could he as the loving son (of a white woman) attend a church with such racial beliefs?
I’m sorry but there is no way Jesus Christ would approve Obama’s belief system.
MB



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MB

posted November 1, 2008 at 9:13 am


I apologize for the previous posting I did not mean for it to be under MAX simply in response to him. Please accept my apology and I hope this clears up any confusion.
Thanks,
MB



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Much Afraid

posted November 1, 2008 at 10:18 am


MB – there are many ways to kill innocent children – some are with landmines (which we make, use and sell), some with outright military force, some by neglect (inadequate healthcare). The US has done all this in recent history, and under this supposedly ‘Christian’ administration.
I hate abortion – it is a terrible sin on our nation. Obama is not any more ‘for’ abortion than anyone else – nor is he ‘for’ gay marriage. His actions and platform make this clear. Yes, he supports that hackneyed term ‘choice’ – but as I pointed out earlier, that is a legal and not a moral issue for him, and for us as a nation. I don’t believe we can stop it just with the force of law, any more than we have been able to stop drug use.
What concerns me is not lining my own pockets – but taking care of the most vulnerable in society. The CDC statistics on infant mortality puts the US at 29th in the world (that’s with 1 being the best) behind many less developed countries. Ironcially, their own report says:
Infant mortality is one of the most important indicators of the health of a nation, as it is associated with a variety of factors such as maternal health, quality and access to medical care, socioeconomic conditions, and public health practices. The U.S. infant mortality rate generally declined throughout the 20th century. In 1900, the U.S. infant mortality rate was approximately 100 infant deaths per 1,000 live births, while in 2000, the rate was 6.89 infant deaths per 1,000 live births. However, the U.S. infant mortality rate did not decline significantly from 2000 to 2005, which has generated concern among researchers and policy makers.
Quick civics question – which ‘pro-life’ administration was in power during that period? It isn’t enough to be ‘pro-life’ (narrowly meaning you oppose abortion) if after they are born you are fine with letting them die. That is just foolish thinking!
I talked to a lot of my ‘white’ friends after the Rev. Wright issue came and a lot of them admitted that by and large, a lot of the things he said were dead right (not all, but many). We need to also understand that McCain at first distanced himself from people he thought might hurt his chances (Bush for one) but then he had to capitulate to get on the ‘good side’ of the Republican right, and picking Palin was most likely simply pandering to that element.
It’s complicated, I know, but try to think it through – this is a critical moment in history for the US



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Vir et Armis

posted November 1, 2008 at 10:33 am


Max-
Here is James Cone telling his class that whites cannot be saved until they pay “reparations” to blacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIVwBuyXXE0
My ancestors were abolitionists- they fought and died to free blacks. Two of my ancestors endured Andersonville and escaped by pretending to be dead and being thrown out on the heap of dead bodies and then walking home to West Virginia. Where are my reparations? I’m proud of my ancestors and I don’t ask for even a “thank you”.
Max- James Cone is a “false prophet” leading people astray from the truth of the Gospel. He teaches that the Cross was a failure. He says that Jesus was helpless on the Cross and that the Crucifiction was a lynching. That analogy is false because lynching was a verdict and sentence without due process. Jesus was given due process-he was found guilty. It was on the Cross that he bore our sins and fulfilled His mission on earth. It was a turning point in time for ALL humanity-the penultimate SUCCESS and without the Cross there is no salvation, no hope, no faith.
Cone has said that he created the black Jesus by combining MLKjr’s Baptist belief with Malcolm X’s Black Power and tied his created Jesus to Liberation Theology. I’m sure you have great respect for James Cone. But as a Christian I must say- he is being used as a tool of the devil. The devil is the father of all lies and James Cone is teaching lies upon lies. Black Liberation Theology’s purpose is to break down the moral fibers that constitute Christian faith. It gives way to Marxist ideology and supports abortion and homosexuality. It conveniently leaves out scriptures that don’t fit with its mission. Black Liberation Theology is just one of the many false teachings that Jesus warned about that would flourish in the last days.
Fron Second Timothy-
“But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!”



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Vir et Armis

posted November 1, 2008 at 11:05 am


MB-
If my ancestors had not settled in their hearts that slavery be abolished (To do away with; annul. To destroy completely.) there would still be slavery in America with only perhaps fewer slaves in number.
Think about this- If you believe abortion is the forced stopping of a beating human heart (murder)– Can that truth be compromised?
Much Afraid says
“Infant mortality is one of the most important indicators of the health of a nation, as it is associated with a variety of factors such as maternal health, quality and access to medical care, socioeconomic conditions, and public health practices.”
Sit down Much Afraid- this may shake your world.
Seven newborns were diagnosed suffering from a MRSA infection contracted at a Yonkers hospital just a few days ago. MRSA is just one of many hospital infections that are resistant to antibiotics. They are rampant in hospitals and nursing homes and have spread to schools, fitness facilities and homeless shelters.
We are losing control of infection with antibiotics and this will significantly effect the health of millions of vulnerable patients- the newly born, the elderly, and those who are immuno-suppressed.
Remember to wash your hands often.



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Max

posted November 1, 2008 at 1:19 pm


(THE ISSUE I ADDRESS IS NOT WHETHER BLACK THEOLOGY IS GOOD. BUT I DO SAY IT IS NOT BASED ON COMMUNISM AS YOU STATED, IT IS A REACTION TO PERCEIVED RACIAL OPPRESSION. LET’S NOT CHANGE THE SUBJECT)
As a Christian, I applaud the men who gave their lives in the Civil War for the cause of black emancipation. However let’s not deceive ourselves on this one. Lincoln stated clearly that his primary purpose was to preserve the Union. He openly said that if he could best preserve the Union by leaving the blacks in slavery he would do that. He declared abolition to make sure the British and French governments could not recognize the South. For geopolitical reasons these two governments would have liked to see a divided America. But their people would never have tolerated support for the presrvation of slavery.
A year ago, I was devastated to read “Slavery by another Name” by Douglas A. Blackmon (Atlanta Bureau Chief of the Wall Street Journal”). This changed my percption of the Black experience in America completely. Here is what I learned.
With the connivance of the Federal Government a form of slavery worse than existed before the Civil War was established througout much of the South by corruption of the legal system. This lasted until the early years of World War II. When Nazi and Japanese propaganda picked up on it, Roosveldt moved decisively to crush the system.
So let’s not pat ourselves on the back too enthusiatically. I am not here to defend Black Theology. I am here to say it is not based on Communism as you stated, but is rather a theological reaction to oppression. Whether it is appropriate or not is another matter.
Obama is a man who thinks that he can inspire a movement to change the world. He is not a follower of anyone. He listens to all and charts his own course.



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Vir et Armis

posted November 1, 2008 at 2:04 pm


Max says
“THE ISSUE I ADDRESS IS NOT WHETHER BLACK THEOLOGY IS GOOD. BUT I DO SAY IT IS NOT BASED ON COMMUNISM AS YOU STATED, IT IS A REACTION TO PERCEIVED RACIAL OPPRESSION.”
Max- you are mistaken
From James Cone’s book “A Black Theology of Liberation”:
“The definition of Jesus as black is crucial for christology if we truly believe in his continued presence today. Taking our clue from the historical Jesus who is pictured in the New Testament as the Oppressed One, what else, except blackness, could adequately tell us the meaning of his presence today? Any statement about Jesus today that fails to consider blackness as the decisive factor about his person is a denial of the New Testament message. The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus reveal that he is the man for others, disclosing to them what is necessary for their liberation from oppression. If this is true, then Jesus Christ must be black so that blacks can know that their liberation is his liberation. . .
The black Christ is he who threatens the structure of evil as seen in white society, rebelling against it, thereby becoming the embodiment of what the black community knows that it must become. . .
To be a disciple of the black Christ is to become black with him. Looting, burning, or the destruction of white property are not primary concerns. Such matters can only be decided by the oppressed themselves who are seeking to develop their images of the black Christ. . .
Whites do not recognize what is happening, and they are thus unable to deal with it. For most whites in power, the black community is a nuisance –something to be considered only when the natives get restless. But what white America fails to realize is the explosive nature of the kingdom. Although its beginning is small, it will have far-reaching effects not only on the black community but on the white community as well. Now is the time to make decisions about loyalties, because soon it will be too late. Shall we or shall we not join the black revolutionary kingdom?”
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) wrote an excellent overview of the grave dangers of Liberation Theology in 1984:
Here are some of the points Ratzinger has made about Liberation Theology:
1. Liberation Theology has it center of power in Latin America and in African Theology, but is found in many Christian denominations throughout the Third World.
2. Liberation Theology is a new interpretation of Christian reality.
3. Liberation Theology is radically Marxist. “ . . .the world must be interpreted in terms of the class struggle and that the only choice is between capitalism and Marxism.”
4. Liberation Theology thrives on perpetuating class struggle. The only people of the Church are those who participate in class struggle.
5. Liberation Theology is a theology of bloody political revolution. All of Christian reality is reduced to politico-social liberation praxis (action).
6. Liberation Theology rejects traditional scriptural interpretations. “The experience of the “community” determines the understanding and the interpretation of Scripture. . . Ultimately, what is normative for interpretation is not historical research but the hermeneutic of history experienced in the community or the political group.”
7. Liberation Theology makes the Bible subject to a Marxist view of history. “The “historicality” of the Bible must justify its absolute dominance and thus legitimize the’ transition to materialist-marxist philosophy, in which history has taken over the role of God. . . historical criticism has loosed Scripture from the traditional interpretation, which now appears to be unscientific.
Check it out readers:
http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/ratzinger/liberationtheol.htm
Jeremiah Wright (a disciple of James Cone) was Obama’s pastor for twenty years. Obama has said repeatedly that this man “led him to the lord”, was his spiritual advisor, and mentor.
What sort of “lord” was Obama led to? What spiritual advise would a man who admires the teachings of James Cone give?
Wright speaks of Cone and Liberation Theology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XKIwI_uCa0



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Max

posted November 1, 2008 at 2:53 pm


Vir et Armis, You ask how can I as a believer in Jesus support a man who supports choice and gay marriage.
I think for myself. Neither the Pope nor Rev. Dobson think for me.
Now let’s start with Jesus basic teaching. The rich young ruler asked “Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”. Jesus said
1. Love God
2. Love your neigbor as youself.
Jesus defined his neighbor as anyone in need. The man said that he had always done this. Evidently Jesus believed him for he invited the man to sell all he had, give to the poor and come be a disciple.
On another occasion Jesus went further. He said that many people will approach the gates of heaven and be in for a surprise. He will reject some who had led what they believed to be righteous lives. He would say “I was hungry and you did not feed me, I was in prison and you did not visit me etc”
To me this is the core of Jesus teaching and nothing that the Mormon prophet, the Pope or Rev. Dobson can say changes this for me.
Now let’s apply this to the issue of choice. I do not see how an unborn is of more worth than an already living child. We have the highest rate of infant mortality of any rich country. This mortality is concentrated among the poor. Even the impoverished Cubans do a better job of protecting infants’ health. Protecting the health of these children is non controversial. Why do we not tackle this problem first and then worry about the unborn. Instead some of your most beloved crusaders have either shown no interest in this problem or actively opposed measures aimed at improving the lot of the poor “already_born”. They also have opposed measures that would encourage women with unwanted pregnancies to carry the child to term. Therfore, I suspect they are using the issue of abortion as a wedge to distract us from the very issues that Jesus directs us to pay attention to.
This is not surprising if you pay attention to the founding of the Christian church. The Christian Church was founded by powerful and power hungry prelates under the direction of a Roman Emperor as an instrument of control. It became more expedient to emphasize peripheral issues like the exact nature of Christ and the Trinity rather than to try to implement His core teaching.
So it is today. The powrful would rather have us fight over peripheral issues like gay marriage than join to insist they try to implement Christ’s core teaching. Self interest is masquerading as piety.



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Max

posted November 1, 2008 at 3:07 pm


Vir et Armis ,
If you think that what you wrote above, supports the idea that Black Theology is Communism, then I realize I should have asked you to define what you mean by Communism.
How do you know that Obama has been influenced by Professor Cone. Nothing he has said, done or advocated over the past two years I have been listening to him, supports that wild assertion.
Can’t you ever get the idea that there are people who want to know how others think, and how they got there without neccessarily agreeing with those ideas.
There are people like Obama and I and many others who think for themselves. You must believe me or you will never understand many of your country men.



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Max

posted November 1, 2008 at 3:54 pm


Vir et Armis
Just because things have similar names does not mean they are the same.
Catholic Liberation Theology has European roota and is similar to Black Libration Theology only in the sense that it was a reaction to perceived opprssion, this time in Latin America. It was a serious attempt to extend the philosophical teachings of the Catholic Church to encompass the relief of oppression by any means possible.
In the sixties Catholic Priests in Latin America were actually becoming involved in violent revolutionary moveements. In response Conservatives assassinated a Catholic Archbishop and numerous priests.
Cardinal Ratzinger was not addressing Black Theology adherents. Please do not again mislead.



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Vir et Armis

posted November 1, 2008 at 5:58 pm


“Cardinal Ratzinger was not addressing Black Theology adherents. Please do not again mislead”
Settle down Max.
Did you read Pope Benedict’s paper I linked? He clearly states that Liberation theology is not restricted to Latin America and is unthinkable apart from the governing influence of European and North American theologians.
Did you listen to the Pastor Wright utube I linked? He said his church’s Black values system is very similar to the values system created in Nicaragua during the Liberation Theology movement.
Liberation theology in Nicaragua in the mid-1980′s was a pro-Sandinista, pro-Marxist, anti-U.S., anti-Catholic Church movement.
Max- you have read Obama’s book “Dreams of My Father”? Who was his childhood mentor- a friend of his grandfather’s who was like a father figure to him?
hint- Obama called him only by his first name “Frank”.



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Your Name

posted November 2, 2008 at 1:22 pm


For goodness sake Vir et Armis, the fact that Catholic Liberation Theology is not confined to Latin America does not excuse confusing it with Black Liberation Theology. There are still cells of Catholic Priests all over the world sympathetic to the basic concepts of Catholic Liberation Theology, even though they no longer support violence.
I have spent a lot of time in the British Caribbean living among almost entirely black populations, and no one spoke of Black Liberation Theology. This is a specific response to a peculiar American problem, namely the systematic treatment of Black Americans as slaves right down to 1940.
By contrast the French about a hundred years before, not only granted freedom to the slaves in their colonial possession but offered them full citizenship in the mother country. At that time they not only appologized, but unequivocally acknowledged that a great evil had been conducted in their name.
I know it’s tough to acknowledge wrong doing, but we do not need to look any further than our own evil doing for the source of the wrath of the older generation of Blacks. Some of these men were children in 1940, and might have known that their own fathers or grandfathers had been seized and sold into de facto slavery, never to be seen again. Do they need any further motivation for anger.



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Vir et Armis

posted November 2, 2008 at 3:00 pm


“the fact that Catholic Liberation Theology is not confined to Latin America does not excuse confusing it with Black Liberation Theology.”
Are you saying the Liberation Theology that started in Latin America did not inspire the Black Liberation Theology in America? Are you saying these “liberation theologies” are not political movements and Marxist in ideology?
Sorry, No Name. You are ill-informed.
Apparently no one wants to chat about Obama’s childhood mentor “Frank” whom he states in his autobiography was like a father to him. Obama has since acknowledged that “Frank” was known communist Frank Marshall Davis. Wow! I bet Obama got an ear-full from old “Frank”.
Its only natural when Obama settled in Chicago that he sought out Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dorhn who have a long and sordid history of violence and hatred for all things American and love of all things Marxist and Jeremiah Wright disciple of Black Liberation Theology’s James Cone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUsNMsrGycY
A few questions to ponder for the readers here:
Where did Obama’s mother and father meet? What common interest drew them both to this setting in the 1960s?
AND
Do you know what a “price signal” is?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bueCxeXZAUU
hint- to a Socialist there is no problem so intractable that it can’t be solved with a punitive tax on someone else.



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Max

posted November 2, 2008 at 4:52 pm


The concept and methodology of Catholic Liberation Theology may or may not have inspired Black Liberation Theology. The example of Catholic Liberation theology may or may not have offered Black American Theologists a methodology for exploring their problem.
The point I am making is that there is no basis for your suggestion that Black Liberation Theology had its roots in Communism. If had its roots in the abuse blacks had suffered in this country and the need some Baptist ministers felt to reconcile self respect with a belief in their version of Christianity. Support for my point of view lies the fact that this theology is virtually unknown in the neigboring black Caribbean where blacks were better treated.
No one wants to discuss the new smears you are anxious to present, because everyone realizes that you are a bottomless pit of smears and I for one am tired of refuting this endless stream of garbage.
What I marvel at, is how a professing Christian can devote himself so wholeheartedly to character assassination. This is an eyeopener for me. It has been painful to confirm what a candid member of your fraternity said to me “Christianity has come a long way since Christ’s time”. In the Middle Ages we burnt our opponents at the stake, now we slime them.
Goodbye. You will not be hearing from me again. So you are free to let your imagination run wild.



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Much Afraid

posted November 2, 2008 at 5:49 pm


Vir et Armis – Those are shockingly infantile youtube clips – but lets just move on for a minute. Karl Marx and Engles were mightily influenced by the League of the Just – a movement towards social justice in Europe which was profoundly Christian at the time. The fact that Marx (in his treatise) took over many of their ideals and stripped them of any reference or acknowledgment of God is well established.
Even his oft quoted “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!” is a rough paraphrase of the biblical admonishments found many places – in Acts 20:35 “I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.”, Ephesians 4:28 – “Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.” Acts 4:34-35 34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.”
Obviously, except in small communities, we are far from that ideal.
Marx didn’t make this up, he stole it, and then refused to give God the glory. Vir, I KNOW you know better, and I have come to the conclusion that you are being more than a tad intellectually dishonest. Would you even call Pope John Paul a ‘communist’ or ‘socialist’ because he proclaimed the worth of the workman to be greater than that of capital? “Laborem Exercens” is very clear on this point – exploitation comes in many forms other than low wages, but it is the overall security and well being of the worker and his family that must be ensured.
The conflict for any government is how to produce order, justice and yet maintain individual dignity and autonomy as much as possible. John Paul II makes it very clear that the Church upholds the notion of private property – but yet, in the absence of right action, governments often step in and use (gasp!) things such as price signals to guide people’s behaviour. This is nothing new, and has always been done in various ways. While in the old testament, there was a prohibition against murder, it was handled differently – revenge killing was permitted by the affected family, but there was also the mitigating ‘grace’ of the cities of refuge. We tend to do it differently, but it is all about moderating behaviour through laws.
To slander Obama by accusing him of socialism, marxism or the rest is simply yet another scare tactic – but it unfortunately seems to be working for his opponents. We have always ‘shared the wealth’ in this country – and it has mostly worked to better society. Heck, we’re even ‘sharing the wealth’ with mulit-billion dollar corporations and banks now! And nearly every young person has at some time in his education sought to understand the meaning of the ‘alternatives’ to what has become a type of capitalism which ‘grinds the face of the poor’ (read Laborem Exercens again carefully – I have, and I’m not even Catholic!)
I’m beginning to think you are a rather dangerous influence, so, like Max, I must bid you farewell and pray that some light might fall upon your trouble heart in this matter.



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Karen

posted November 2, 2008 at 6:03 pm


What “shockingly infantile youtube clips” are you talking about? I’ve watched the links and they have Obama speaking in a PBS interview and Obama reading from one of his books. If you can refute those utubes please post the links.
Thanks.



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Much Afraid

posted November 2, 2008 at 6:51 pm


Oh for heaven’s sake Karen – the way they were ‘Max Headroom’ edited to keep repeating stuff – and the fade-in of Karl Marx, really!
If they were just straight excerpts or clips it would have been fine – but hitting us over the head with the ‘points’ over and over, with cute video effects as if we are completely dumb and need to have it ‘pointed out’ for us – But, wait, perhaps maybe I’m not the target audience….



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Karen

posted November 2, 2008 at 7:03 pm


Thanks.
Can you post any links that refute what is said by Obama? Why would he seek out marxist professors? Was Frank his childhood mentor really a communist? There seems to be a link between all Obama’s mentors unless its all made up.



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lori

posted November 2, 2008 at 8:18 pm


to those of you voting for Obama must have no kind of morals whatsoever. If you are voting only for what he says about taxes, get a grip! You would rather our taxes be lower, than save a billion lives. Better still he wants to redefine marriage and families. My goodness you people better WAKE UP!



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Karen

posted November 2, 2008 at 8:44 pm


I’m trying to sort things tonight and look what I found. Brokaw was on Charlie Rose’s Show. Two well respected journalists and they say this about Obama:
ROSE: I don’t know what Barack Obama’s worldview is.
BROKAW: No, I don’t, either.
ROSE: I don’t know how he really sees where China is.
BROKAW: We don’t know a lot about Barack Obama and the universe of his thinking about foreign policy.
ROSE: I don’t really know. And do we know anything about the people who are advising him?
BROKAW: Yeah, it’s an interesting question.
ROSE: He is principally known through his autobiography and through very inpirational speeches.
BROKAW: Two of them! I don’t know what books he’s read.
ROSE: What do we know about the heroes of Barack Obama?
BROKAW: There’s a lot about him we don’t know.
Why didn’t these great journalists ask Obama a few pertinent questions?
Brokaw and Rose Admit They Don’t Know Much About Obama.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQdBz7-aadk
This is getting really CRAZY. ANYBODY have ANYTHING SOLID that proves his link to marxism is fabricated?



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Vir et Armis

posted November 3, 2008 at 10:54 am


Oh my.
I post a few utubes of Obama speaking the truth from his heart- (he plans to tax one group of Americans and give that money to another group)(in college he sought out friendship with Marxist professors) and instead of defending or refuting Obama’s statements- Max and Much Afraid get their panties in a twist and stomp off.
Max- You can’t smear someone with the TRUTH. You can only bring revelation. So to rephrase you: “No one wants to discuss the new truths you are anxious to present, because everyone realizes that you are a bottomless pit of truth and I for one am tired of refuting this endless stream of truths.” The truth of Obama’s past will follow him and his actions will affirm it.
Much Afraid- America is a capitalist nation. We treasure our freedoms and cling to our “negative rights”. Individuals all over the world dream of coming to America- to freedom. Cubans still get into shoddily built rafts and risk drowning and imprisonment to come to America. Not too many make that reverse trip to Cuba even though it has been a beautiful land with vibrant people in the past.
You say “Marx didn’t make this (Marxism) up, he stole it, and then refused to give God the glory.” Trying to teach me some liberation theology? American Christians don’t need money taken away for the LORD’s work to be done. We are the most generous people in the world and our missions are bringing good news to the afflicted, binding up the brokenhearted, proclaiming liberty to captives and freedom to prisoners. Isn’t God more than able to preserve His Word!
I have been working in the camps of Darfur since the war in the south of Sudan ended. Come to Sudan to understand war, poverty, and slavery. You should meet the women who embrace and nourish the child conceived through rape on the night her husband and parents were killed or the child who is stolen from his home to be a slave soldier to their enemy and returns still on his feet but unable to speak. It is my joy to have known them. As believers- we are doing the LORD’s will and meeting the needs of a broken world without government intervention.
Karen asks
Why would he seek out marxist professors?
He has Marxist leanings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axRvqGBpNNE
Was Frank his childhood mentor really a communist?
Yes.Frank Marshall Davis was a communist poet who wrote hardcore pornography.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Marshall_Davis
Can you post any links that refute what is said by Obama?
No.



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Kathy V

posted November 3, 2008 at 4:01 pm


I am truly excited that God raised up Sarah Palin at this time. I am sure many have begun to admire her for what she stands for and therefore that gives me strenght to stand up for what is right. Just as Esther in the bible – “For such a time as this”.
I can’t believe that so many people in this nation would vote for a Muslim.
Yes Karen, he is a closet Muslim – even though he sat in that awful church for 20 years learning all about hatred of the white people, that blackness should rule…he was a Muslim when he went to school in Indonesia and does not have a real birth certificate…
May God move the hearts of the people to vote for a Christian President & Vice President.



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Jack Armstrong

posted November 4, 2008 at 2:59 pm


Be sure to get out and VOTE for OBAMA today!



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Max

posted November 4, 2008 at 5:23 pm


Dear Karen,
right on Obama’s website at http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/
you will find more detail about Obama’s approach to foreign policy than you will find time to read. No candidate has ever published so much detail.
These pundits are too lazy to read anything longer than a soundbite.
Max



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Your Name

posted November 4, 2008 at 5:55 pm


IS OBAMA MARXIST
Here is an article from US News
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/6/6/is-obama-really-a-marxist-puh-lease.html
The writer disagrees with some of Obama’s policy proposals but he says
“DeLay didn’t provide any evidence of either, probably because that is not an accurate reflection of Obama’s views, which seem to be well within the mainstream of Democratic policy for the past quarter century. And his biggest policy idea, a cap-and-trade system to reduce climate emissions, is not noticeably different than the plan offered by John McCain. And certainly all those Wall Street folks sending him money don’t think Obama’s a Marxist.”
Go to Google and type “Obama Marxist”. You will not find a single national newspaper or national broadcasting organization to support this charge. Tom DeLay left the congress in disgrace for corruption. Only Obama’s win at any cost opponents make this charge.



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Becky

posted November 5, 2008 at 11:12 am


I am a minister’s daughter and have been a Christian my whole 54 years. My main issues as a Christian are peace and justice, however I do believe that we must defend ourselves when attacked (even though Jesus said turn the other cheek… I still struggle with that one.)
I voted for Obama in the primaries because he had stood against the Iraq War which I felt was very wrong as Iraq had not attacked us. I then voted for him in the General Election as his way of seeing things regarding justice for all and peace in the world are more “Christlike” than the other side to me.
I am also very proud of the campaign that Barack Obama led. While not perfect, I feel that he stayed with truth and a positive message – which was a good message to the world about America.



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Ernie

posted November 6, 2008 at 12:57 pm


She says, “I’m going to know at the end of the day, putting this in God’s hands, that the right thing for America will be done, the end of the day on November 4th.” I could not agree with her more. The right thing was done, thank God.



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Your Name

posted November 6, 2008 at 11:00 pm


Some people claimed to have seen the Holy Spirit working through Palen as she bore false witness against Obama. Clearly they were mistaken or Obama would not have won.
You may be astonished to learn that the German magazine “Stern” claims on its web site that Obama has reached a yearning for spirituality deeply felt in Europe. They claim that not since the death of Pope John Paul has any individual done more to renew a feeling of hope in ordinary Europeans. They illustrate this with a string of pictures showing people of all races reacting to election results.
http://www.stern.de/politik/ausland/:Messias-Obama-Der-Erl%F6ser-Amerikas/644738.html?backref=%2Fpolitik%2Fausland%2F%3AKommentar-Das-Geheimnis-Obama%2F644739.html&cp=1
Obama said together we could change the world for the better. The Germans are saying Yes we can. Let’s give it a shot.



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Vic

posted November 7, 2008 at 11:47 am


There were a lot of issues at play in this election, to be sure. Obama was better on some, McCain better on others. But human rights is the most fundamental of all the issues. Both claim to be good on human rights. But the most basic of all human rights is the right to life; stated as such in our declaration of independence. Anyone who claims to be a supporter of human rights and does not label abortion as gravely immoral is at best deceived. I am embarassed beyond tears that people call themselves followers of Christ and yet do not see intrinsic value in the human lives He came to save. May God have mercy on us, and change our hearts.



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Larry Linn

posted November 8, 2008 at 4:21 pm


Like George said “Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull*** story. Holy S***!”



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Andre Cooper

posted November 11, 2008 at 4:33 pm


I am not pro-abortion, and what I am about to write is not in support of abortion! I sometimes a wonder about our American views of life and death. Infants die all around the world, and God is not preventing it. Is it because God does not care about these children? Of course not! Death is a part of life. I realize that taking a life is different from death by natural causes; but in a world where there may be more than enough food to feed everybody in the world, are we not taking a life whenever a child dies of starvation, of whenever a fetus suffers from malnutrition? In a world where the current state of the medical profession and knowledge about nutrition could save the lives of many infants, are we not taking a life when we don’t ensure health care for all (pregnant woman and infants)? In a world where the powerful could stop useless killing, are we not taking a life when we don’t intervene in mass genocides?…..Just wondering about our ideas about LIFE and our real ideals about the lives of the unborn.



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Your Name

posted November 13, 2008 at 1:15 am


The United States has a higher informality rate than any other rich country. Even impoverished Cuba has a lower rate. The infants of the poor are the ones dying. Are these lives not as valuable in the sight of God as the lives of the unborn. Worse case the sould of the unborn are back sinless with their creator. The neglected children of this world are our responsiblity. Jesus did say “In as much as ye have done unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” There is no debate about these children.
Why then are you right to life zealots not demanding the Government intervene to protect these children. Why do you not demand supporting services for their poor parents?
Of course it does not cost us much to hound desperate women, but taking care of poor infants would actually cost us money, and taxes.
We can’t have that can we? No matter what Jesus said!



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Chris Lucas

posted November 14, 2008 at 4:29 pm


We have out of control Supreme Court Judges, that is part of this country’s problem. Another one is electing officials that are all funded by the same people. That’s RIGHT. Democrats and Republicans get funded by pretty much the same people. Oh Republicans are able to con CHristians into giving to them, but they have no intention of ever getting rid of abortion. It is just a hook they use to bait you in. ____ Why doesnt Mr Dobson ever ask McCain why he funded the KLA, The Kosovo Liberation Army, which is a Radical Muslim group? Why didnt Dobson ask Palin about how she feels about that?____Why did McCain help fund a group of Muslim terrorists who many claim have ties closely to al-Quaeda?____Bush sure wasnt too outspoken about getting congress to reject the Hate Crime Bill. That affects christians, but Bush didnt seem to care and seemed content to watch it pass. Thankfully it didnt. But it came pretty close. But what that bill would have done, would make it illegal to read out of the bible. Cause if you read Romans outloud and it talked about homosexuals going to hell and how God hates that sin, you could possibly get in trouble for spreading hate.______Folks, you need to stop being lazy and sitting in front of your tv and believing all the crap you see and hear. Republican radio tries to brainwash you into thinking something is conservative, when it really isnt. Hannity is no more conservative than Combs. ____ANdrew Jackson once said an odd line “The Bank, Mr Van Buren, is trying to kill me, but I will kill it.”____Abraham Lincoln said that the civil war wasn’t about slavery. It was about preserving the Union. “Freeing the slaves” was basically so that the people of Russia, who had just let the serbs be free, would help support us. See Brittain was controled basically by bankers. A central bank, and wanted to set up one in america. Abraham realized this. He didnt want America to end up like Brittain. Russia was one of the only other countries which had no central bank at that time.____I’ll leave you with this, the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913, around christmas, when most of congress was on Christmas vactaion.



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posted November 15, 2008 at 2:57 am


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posted November 19, 2008 at 8:39 pm


James Dobson is bff with Larry Craig.



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