Steven Waldman

Steven Waldman


Are We a Christian Nation?

posted by swaldman

My “diavlog” with former White House official Pete Wehner, over at the excellent website, Bloggingheads, including some chat about Obama’s potential appeal to evangelicals and McCain’s troubles with them:



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Donny

posted May 16, 2008 at 12:45 pm


The Apostles were Evagelicals. And, conservative evangelicals at that. They opposed same-gender sex acts, taught that marriage was a man and a woman, and followed the teachings of Jesus to go to a brother that sins against you sevearl different ways, and if that person refuses to repent, you are to treat them as you would a tax collector. A definate reference to liberal and progressives throughout the ages. No one wants taxes more than Democrats. These lefties fail to learn their lesson from God or history. Once the content of Obama’s political life is highlighted there won’t be many people that are called Evangelical that will follow his brand of evil. And of course the ringing chant of Molech worship/abortion culture: “I don’t want THEM PUNISHED with a BABY!!!!!” America will be well down the slippery slide with Obama’s style of morality leading the country within his first 100-days. But, maybe we deserve this guy and his brand of destroying our country.



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Donny

posted May 16, 2008 at 12:48 pm


oops, I forgot, we have never been a “Christian” nation. Just trace our history and fast forward to liberals and progressives today. “By their fruit you will know them.” Our fruit is “legal” abominations galore.



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Eric

posted May 16, 2008 at 1:39 pm


Donny: If by “apostles” you mean Paul, then you are correct in saying that he wrote against same-sex acts and described a process for confronting a brother who sins. However, your exegesis is obviously motivated by your political viewpoints. To call the apostles “conservative evangelicals” is to lump them into a particular political category that focuses narrowly on a small set of issues. Just as God is neither Republican nor Democrat, I believe the apostles would concern themselves with taking political sides as you are doing. There is plenty of evidence that both sides, Republican and Democrat, would do well to reexamine their views in relation to biblical teaching and the examples of Jesus and the apostles.
Your comments about Obama are ridiculous. I don’t know exactly what you mean by his particular “brand of evil,” but it seems you know very little about the man and what he stands for if you can ignorantly and blithely paint him as evil.



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hootie1fan

posted May 16, 2008 at 4:20 pm


It all depends on your definitin of “CHRISTIAN”.
If by “CHRISTIAN” you mean people publicly say they are Christian then YES we are a Christian nation.
If by “CHRISTIAN” you mean does this country in large part live and practice their faith in the way the founding fathers did, then NO we aren’t a Christian nation.
If by “CHRISTIAN” you mean does this country in large part live the way Jesus lived, practicing the priciples taught by the leader of the faith, then NO we aren’t a Christian nation.



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hootie1fan

posted May 16, 2008 at 4:51 pm


If by “CHRISTIAN” you mean are we a nation made of of groups of people who claim to be Christian yet disagree on what a real Christian is then YES we are a Christian nation.



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Donny

posted May 16, 2008 at 11:41 pm


Thanks Eric. Paul is a done deal on same-gender sex acts as completely inappropriate for a Christian. He also condemns pagans in no uncertain terms as well. I leave Paul out of the same-gender sex acts culture. On the other hand, not one Apostle condones or supports in any way, these neologisms called Gay and Lesbian that represent homosexual, or rather same-gender sex acts. Peter, John, James and Jude all are in harmony with sexual perversion being inappropriate for Christians.
Now, Obama’s “brand” of evil is the ideology of “progressive” culture and belief system. Progressives are more condemned by the Apostles AND Christ Jesus than are practicing homosexuals. Just the statement on his daughters being “punished, with a baby” shows the man’s inner workings on morality. Murdering children for the convenience of the parents is Molech worship. His Church affiliation is more influenced by Kwanzaa than the New Testament. The Black racism of his church is glaringly un-Christian. I will not cower under the bullying word “racist,” and will challenge any person equally when it comes to hypocrisy and heresy. We are all exactly the same to the Lord. If I err in what the New Testament testifies than I expect to be held accountable. I definately need to actually love those that hate the Church. But progressives are so dangerous, evil and hateful actually, I get caught up in the flesh sometimes. I don’t like bullies. And the Left is pure bully.
The founders of this country used the model of Christian morality to base their new country on, but like Leftists who are really “Humanists,” they borrow much from Christian decency but deny it in its entirety. Typical of the godless. Jonathan Locke had a good opinion of the atheist. I have great problems with Republicans and some of their actions, but they are not trying to literally outlaw Christianity as are the Democrats. The ENDA Bill will prove their (Democrats) latest attempt. We see in Massachusetts and California, who the jack-booted Gestapo agents that drive this agenda home. It is puzzling how anyone that believes in Christ Jesus as He is presented in the New Testament, can “yoke” themselves to Democrats. But nothing a Leftist does surprises me anymore. Especially how easy they deny scripture. I would be fascinated if you could show me where the New Testament witness supports what the religious left is doing within the confines of the Democrat party. Other than their appeasing and apathetic ways on war, I see nothing that connects their endeavors to the Gospel as the Apostles brought it to us. Remember, Jesus did not write the Gospels, the Apostles (or disciples) did.
America is not a Christian nation, and that is not really all that bad. Look at where we Christians came from. America is more like (ancient) Rome than it is like Jerusalem. We should just ignore these gay and liberal Democrats and rich coveting Republicans and live our lives for each other as Jesus commanded. I love James Dobson, but he should just forget about these homosexual and abortion loving reprobates and focus on the family of God.
Jesus said that He (and we) are not of this world, we’re just in it. Why should we really care what those that choose to be blind and are led by the blind, desire to do to themselves. It’s all about free will. Aren’t we just supposed to cast the dust from our shoes and “move on?”



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Barbara

posted May 19, 2008 at 10:49 am


If you mean by religion, then perhaps by majority.
If you mean how we like to see ourselves… questionble.
If you mean how the rest of the world sees us; I think playground bully would be more similar to US then Christ.
If you mean by being as Christ in the world and living his example of turning the other cheek or forgiving as we want forgiveness, we wouldn’t be in Afghanistan, let alone Iraq.
We would have been able to use our military to assist victims of the Tsunami, Catrina, earthquakes in India, China and other numerous natural disasters; doubtlessly endearing ourselves in the world. I fear we’ve slipped from leader of the first world; instead taking on a political attitude of playground bully.



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DRJ

posted May 19, 2008 at 3:34 pm


There has never been a completely Christian nation (unless you include heaven as a nation). A truly Christian nation would not have so easily have slipped into the sinful funk that characterizes modern America. When one considers the legal availability of the Scriptures during the entire history of this nation and then evaluates the mire of degradation into which we have eagerly slipped, one must agree that America is the absolutely WORST example of “Christian” natiion. Every type of sin listed in the New Testament is committed easily ten times more in America than anywhere else on the planet. Get ready, America. Judgment is on its way!



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JP

posted May 20, 2008 at 8:44 am


While I respect your attempt an answering the question, I suggest that the question’s motive should be considered suspect.
This question has become a bit of a rallying cry for fundamentalist Christians on the political right. It is not s question that has ever been asked by the secular community or even politically moderate Christians. It is the leading question for a propaganda campaign. The question is only asked so that it can be answered in the affirmative by fundamentalists who are interested in seeing the lines between church and state blurred.
To that end, the question is disingenuous. I have seen this posted on message boards and the end result is not a debate on the question itself. It’s a way for the Christian fundamentalist community (particularly those at wallbuilders.com) to choose a public battleground with which to illustrate their slant on history and their initiative to change public policy in education and national government.



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eastcoastlady

posted May 21, 2008 at 8:07 am


JP, well said.



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Anonymous

posted June 2, 2008 at 10:13 am

Anonymous

posted May 22, 2009 at 2:25 am


If we are not a Christian nation just because everyone in the nation is not christian, than neither are we american, because not everyone in this nation, or that has a part in our nation, is a citizen, therefore using the same argument about us not being christian, neither can we say that we are american, therefore we have no identity, that is what people want, something to identify themselves with.



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