Rod Dreher

Rod Dreher


Hello, Baby iPad app vs. abortion

posted by Rod Dreher

A great new app from Pampers. I predict a direct correlation between the spread of this app and a decline in abortion rates:



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James P.

posted May 13, 2010 at 5:07 pm


I LOVE THAT!!! The diaper business is pro-life. Call it “enlightened self-interest.”



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hlvanburen

posted May 13, 2010 at 5:20 pm


A very nicely done app, one that will likely capture quite a bit of press, which of course puts Pampers’ name out in the public sphere. Whoever came up with this as an advertising gimmick deserves a raise.



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Peter

posted May 13, 2010 at 6:24 pm


Beyond tapping into the narcissism of being an expectant parent, I’m not sure how this is a pro-life victory. The iPad crowd probably aren’t rushing out to get tons of abortions, they just may be people who believe women should be trusted to make their own medical decisions without the strong-arm of the government.
It is an amazing app. Whether it’s a pro-life message is up for debate.



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Matushka Anna

posted May 13, 2010 at 6:30 pm


This is cool! I don’t have an iPad and don’t intend to get one, but this certainly reaches a wide crowd. As far as it being “pro-life”, it celebrates the marvels of human growth and development from conception on and invites others to share in this joy. I’d say that’s pretty pro-life.
Captcha: Special Trued



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Chall8987

posted May 13, 2010 at 6:34 pm


A pro-life victory? The majority of women who need abortions are poor. I doubt they have iPads. This is just another high tech luxury that wealthy conservatives will fawn over.



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Helen

posted May 13, 2010 at 7:17 pm


It’s very cool, but there are similar “what does your baby look like now” sites available on the web now.
Folks most likely to use this app are those who can afford iPads (obviously) and those who are excited about having a baby. I’m not sure it will further the cause of making abortion illegal.



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Mr. Moto

posted May 13, 2010 at 7:22 pm


The “well-educated,” “progressive” crowd ought to counter with their own “Watch My Abortion” app. After, all, abortion is “morally neutral,” right? Nay, it’s even morally more virtuous than “narcissistically” adding one more set of carbon footprint to the world, is it not? Perhaps the follow up could be a “Watch Me Euthanize My Grandmother” app — crusty old reactionary biddy that she is, against same-sex marriage and all.
; )



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Michael C

posted May 13, 2010 at 7:27 pm


Making abortion illegal will just push it underground. What you need to do is to make abortion less prevalent.
To do that you might want to look at countries with low abortion rates, and compare their society with American society.
That would preclude many Catholic countries, where the abortion rate is higher than the USA, but abortion is illegal. All that does is kill of mothers as well as fetus.



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Tom

posted May 13, 2010 at 7:47 pm


The very fact that you make this statement, MC, probably means you’ve never actually SEEN the abortion rates of predominately Catholic countries in comparison with other countries (not to mention we’re off thread, as Rod’s post has nothing whatsoever to do with abortion legality). But if you’re truly worried about maternal mortality (from rabid coat-hanger abortion mythology no doubt) then make ultrasounds available to women seeking abortion giving them the option to make an informed choice, thereby cutting the rate of abortion by up to 80%.
As for the iPad app, sidewalk counselors can show these to would-be procurers willing to stop and take a look, which might be the train of thought as to how women would choose abortion less frequently (until abortion providers show ultrasounds and quit lying to pregnant women about fetal development, as demonstrated repeatedly in LiveAction video segments).



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Hector

posted May 13, 2010 at 9:27 pm


Rod,
I suspect that the abortion industry and its shills will manage to get the add banned. That appears to be their modus operandi. They’re not so much in favour of ‘freedom of information’ when that information happens to be pro-life.
Michael C,
Nonsense. Your dog will not hunt. As I’ve pointed out numerous times before on this blog, credible estimates by pro-choice scholars suggest that in 1970, the rate of combined illegal and legal abortions in this country was 400,000 to 800,000. Within a few years after legalisation, the rate was 1,600,000. Just like with fancy cars, hard currency, cocaine, and other regulated products, when you legalise something the demand goes up. There is no reason it would not be the case in this case, and in fact the statistics back it up. Please see Potts, Diggory and Peel. 1977. “Abortion”, Cambridge University Press.
I’m generally fairly liberal on the issues of sexual ethics, but when your liberalism extends to apologising for homicide in the name of convenience, then I must part ways with you very forcefully.



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Colleen

posted May 13, 2010 at 9:54 pm


The real question is — is abortion murdering another human being? If it is, then it should be illegal in a civilized country. Every person has a reason for their sinful behavior. A lot of murderers may have really powerful reasons why they murder their bothersome husband, father, mother, child or neighbor. But a civilized country does not allow murder of the inconvenient.



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hlvanburen

posted May 13, 2010 at 10:33 pm


To those who believe abortion is the murder of an innocent human being, what are your thoughts about Scott Roeder or Paul Hill, both men who, based on their belief that abortion is murder, intervened to shoot two abortionists. Both have been convicted of murder, and in the case of Paul Hill was executed for same.
Were they justified in their actions?



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Matushka Anna

posted May 13, 2010 at 11:10 pm


hlavburen:
No. Not justified. If you are against murder, then you are against murder. Period.



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Hitch

posted May 14, 2010 at 12:09 am


It’s a nice idea of an app. Not sure why abortion had to be dragged into this. If this or anything lowers abortion rate, great. Educational apps overall are great. I can’t but think that a topical add sponsored by trojan might not be bad either. I fear it’s obvious though that an actual sex ed app would be banned outright.



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Christopher Mohr

posted May 14, 2010 at 12:32 am


To those who oppose abortion on (Abrahamic) religious grounds, answer this:
1. Abortion is an abomination in God’s eyes
2. God is omnipotent and can do anything he chooses
Therefore, which of the following statements is true?
a). God sees a purpose for abortion, and so chooses not to stop them.
b). God is not really omnipotent
c). Abortion is not an abomination in God’s eyes
d). God chooses to let abortions continue because He doesn’t get involved in human affairs.
e). All of the above
If the answer is a), then those who are against abortion are against God’s plan. If the answer is b), then the Bible is wrong. If the answer is c) then by arguing against abortion, one is committing blasphemy. If the answer is d) then God doesn’t care. In which case, why should we?
I’m calling it a) because God could stop it. He has that kind of power, should he really see it as an abomination, but He doesn’t use it. Why? Because He sees the power that only such a life changing experience can provide. There are all too many people for whom the reality and sanctity of life mean nothing until they experience such a thing. When it comes to spiritual matters, it’s nobody’s place to judge but God’s, according to Jewish and Christian scripture. And yet good Christians and others arrogantly assume that province of God for themselves.
In short, let God sort it out.



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Gerard Nadal

posted May 14, 2010 at 12:40 am

Mr. Moto

posted May 14, 2010 at 12:49 am


One could switch that around, hlvanburen, and ask: If the murders of 50 million children are justified then are the murders of 2 adults?
Captcha: Mowgli Pentacostals



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Peter

posted May 14, 2010 at 2:56 am


It’s a nice idea of an app. Not sure why abortion had to be dragged into this.
Because the culture war is bubbling under everything.



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TBL123

posted May 14, 2010 at 3:51 am


Quote: “I predict a direct correlation between the spread of this app and a decline in abortion rates…”
A woman with an unwanted pregnancy that she’s considering terminating is probably not going to sign up for an app that charts the progress of fetal growth — especially not one that shares the fact of her pregnancy over a social network.
Even if she’s curious what a fetus looks like, the app doesn’t provide any information that she can’t find in a book or on a website. So I don’t see that it will revolutionize anyone’s moral opinion of pregnancy.



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Nick the Greek

posted May 14, 2010 at 5:31 am


From a consistent life point of view, the answer is that abortion, the murders of doctors and the execution of Paul Hill are all morally wrong.



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Michael C

posted May 14, 2010 at 6:50 am


What would happen if the U.S. rates could be reduced to Europe’s?
The number of abortions during 2002 by adolescents in the U.S. would be reduced by about:
135,000 if the U.S. rate was lowered to that of France,
171,000 if the rate was lowered to that of Germany.
182,000 if the rate was lowered to that of the Netherlands,
Lowering the adolescent abortion rate would probably also reduce the rate of abortions among older women as well. It is not beyond reason to hope that the current number of abortions — over one million per year — could be eventually reduced to a few hundred thousand if European policies were adopted!
Lowering the number of live births and abortions would also have a significant impact on the quality of lives among adolescents. For example:
Many young women’s lives are disrupted and their educational goals either delayed or terminated because of an unwanted pregnancy that is carried to term.
A small percentage of women suffer from the extreme long-lasting depression of Post Abortion Syndrome (PAS) after having an abortion.
Advocates for Youth also have listed sexually transmitted disease prevalence rates for HIV, syphilis, gonorrhea, and chlamydia. Rates in the U.S. range from 6 to 74 times higher than whichever of the above three European states has the lowest values.
To most supporters of the pro-life movement, the stakes are extremely high. Most believe that human life becomes a human person at conception. Thus one fewer abortion means one fewer murder of a human being. Preventing the deaths through abortion of hundreds of thousands of embryos and a much smaller number of fetuses would be of immense importance to pro-lifers. However, among many pro-lifers who are also Roman Catholics, reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies through the use of contraception is unacceptable.
Advocates for youth



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Michael C

posted May 14, 2010 at 7:30 am


“Legalization of abortion and access to abortion services do not lead to increased reliance on abortion for fertility control in the long term; in developed countries with these conditions, the predominant trend in abortion rates has been downward.”
International Family Planning Perspectives, 1999, 25(1):44-48
Just to clear up a misconception. I am not in favour of abortion. I do think that all the studies show that making it illegal does not solve the problem. I do think that the USA is doing something terribly wrong to have the abortion rate that it does. I am Canadian, and therefore to a degree, anti_American, Canada only exists because we didn’t want to be American, Until WW2 our only defense plans were how we would survive an attack from the USA



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Mr. Moto

posted May 14, 2010 at 8:24 am


Michael C,
FYI: The kinds of Americans who most promote and who most contribute to the high U.S. abortion rate are the same kinds of Americans who are always “threatening” to move to Canada and who the rest of the U.S. dearly wishes would. The American “blue” states — the most “Canadian” American states — have abortion rates twice that per capita of the red states. The pseudo-Canadian American “blue” lifestyle is underwritten by and predicated on massive, massive rates of abortion, or rather massive, massive rates of murder of unborn children. Just some food for thought to go along with your poutine and mediocre beer.



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Hitch

posted May 14, 2010 at 9:27 am


“Because the culture war is bubbling under everything.”
I never liked the word “culture war”. But yes it appears that some want that war, and some are dragged into it and perfectly neutral topics are politicized.
It’s kind of sad that some can no longer let a book about babies be just a book about babies.



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Hitch

posted May 14, 2010 at 9:37 am


Mr. Moto: Source and Statistics or it didn’t happen. And yes I know the red/blue state statistics. Ever considered that people from red states who want an abortion travel to blue states because of access and hence this is not about local attitude, but about access location? Perhaps some of canada’s numbers are attributed to this as well? Overall abortion rates are lower in countries with lower religiosity.
The “immoral” secular liberal swedes with generous abortion laws has almost half the rate of the US. Perhaps because Sweden has generous health care, long infancy rearing support and actual structural valuing of life once it is born? Or perhaps because they are not as sexually puritan hence sex ed isn’t so stigmatized there?
Finally Canada’s abortion rate is not massive. It’s higher but only somewhat.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/ib_0599.html
But don’t let facts get in the way of a hardened world view.



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Gerard Nadal

posted May 14, 2010 at 11:30 am


The endowment for human development has unbelievable videos of the embryo from 4 weeks onward, as well as $D ultrasounds:
http://www.ehd.org/
They also maintain an official position of moral neutrality, which allows us the opportunity to check our weapons at the door and simply marvel at this unprecedented peek behind the curtain at our common origins.



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Mr. Moto

posted May 14, 2010 at 2:17 pm


Hitch,
I recommend your popping a chill-pill, my friend. I didn’t saying anything about Canadian abortion rates. I have no idea what they are. I merely pointed out that the most Canuckophilic Americans — i.e. the most “blue” Americans — are also the the most infanticidophilic Americans. It is what it is. Sorry if it’s being so harshes your buzz.
Captcha: Herald Dilution



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TTT

posted May 14, 2010 at 2:27 pm


And “red” states have the highest rates of divorce, illegitimate births, and government service dependency. Motes and beams.



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Mr. Moto

posted May 14, 2010 at 2:39 pm


TTT,
“Red” states have higher rates of divorce because people actually get married there when the boyfriend knocks up the girlfriend, instead of just killing the baby the way they do in the “compassionate” blue states. And they have higher rates of illegitimate births because when women there get knocked up and the “pro-choice” knocker-up chooses to split, the women don’t just kill the baby the way they do in the “compassionate” blue states. Motes and beams, indeed. And 50 million dead babies.



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TTT

posted May 14, 2010 at 2:52 pm


“Red” states have higher rates of divorce because people actually get married there when the boyfriend knocks up the girlfriend
…..is that supposed to be a counter-argument? For serious?
Very revealing, both in terms of the “sanctity” of the marriages involved and the lengths that must be stretched to cling to bitterness and regional bigotry.



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Michael C

posted May 15, 2010 at 8:05 am


“I didn’t saying anything about Canadian abortion rates. I have no idea what they are.”
About 2/3 of the USA.
This was interesting I thought
“In the real world, moral ideologies have to be judged not on their aspirations but on their consequences. Otherwise, all contenders would be equally excellent.
An on this metric, any cause which claims to be anti-abortion while also restricting birth control (as do both Catholicism and christian fundamentalism) is no such thing. Its consequences will be invariably pro-abortion, and it should not be allowed to get away with pretending anything else.
This is the factor which is at work in the above study. Public health insurance increases access to quality birth control and birth control information, which reduces unwanted pregnancies which create the demand for abortion.
The further irony is the fact that by passing Obamacare the Democrats now in office have likely struck a harder blow against abortion than the last forty years of Republican politics.”
http://xpostfactoid.blogspot.com/2010/05/dept-of-unpublished-letters-cont.html
The less religious the society, and the more sex education there is, the lower the rate of abortion. All born out by the European statistics. It is not a matter of opinion, it is fact.
Remember that first sentence:
“moral ideologies have to be judged not on their aspirations but on their consequences”



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