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Warner: Christians, NRA members. prolifers and homeschoolers are a threat to America

posted by Susan Johnson

Is it a macaca moment? No of course! The MSM will studiously ignore it:BTW, it doesn’t sound very post-partisan of him, does it? So much for the outreach to pro-lifers Obama is attempting. For you pro-lifers who think you’ll be welcome into the fold, you are about as accepted in the party as infidels are tolerated in Islam (welcome to Dhimmitude, baby!). Thanks for the window into the soul of the Democrat party, Warner. Your honesty is refreshing :-)(via)



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Moonshadow

posted October 6, 2008 at 6:24 pm


In between the comments that are literally spelled out in the video, he seems to be saying, “But it’s not just them.” Am I hearing that correctly?
He doesn’t sound comfortable with special interest groups dominating his party’s platform. Help me see the horror you sense in this.
(and believe me, I’m quite familiar with being considered an infidel among those who should be my own – I can’t be bothered)



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Yet more love of Jesus

posted October 6, 2008 at 6:30 pm


Yep…and if you listen real close you can hear the editing marks in the audio. No telling how they cut this up to make it say what they wanted.
Clearly this is how the Reformed tradition guides politicians.



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yelladawgNC

posted October 6, 2008 at 6:57 pm


More Republican deception–Michele, honestly, can’t you at least make a tiny effort to be fair? Here’s what the Virginia newspaper the Augusta Free Press had to say about the controversy shortly after the Democratic National Convention.
” . . . First, here’s what Jim Gilmore [former Republican governor of Virginia and Warner's current opponent] really, really wants you to know that Mark Warner said on May 25, 1994 [fourteen years ago!] in a speech to the National Jewish Democratic Council. `One of the things you are going to see is a coalition that is just about completely taken over the Republican Party in this state, and if they have their way it’s going to take over state government. It is made up of the Christian Coalition, but not just them. It is made up of the right-to-lifers, but not just them. It’s made up of the NRA, but not just them. It is made up of the home schoolers, but not just them. It’s made up of a whole coalition of people that have all sorts of differing views that I think most of us in this room would find threatening to what it means to be an American.’
“`He wants to be darn sure that his words don’t get out to the people of Virginia. He wants to be able to buy advertising and hope that the press will continue to push his issues the way they have,’ Gilmore told reporters after stepping down from the stage, and AFTER WARNER HIMSELF HAD CHIDED HIMSELF IN A TALK WITH REPORTERS FOR BEING `OVER THE TOP’ IN MAKING THE STATEMENT, EVEN AS HE SAID HE DIDN’T RECALL THE OCCASION. [Emphasis mine]
“The intent of the Gilmore camp in drawing attention to the comment is clear. Warner has made his name in Virginia and national politics as a self-styled `radical centrist’ and rare Democrat who can claim soccer moms and NASCAR and NRA dads among his base. Even Republicans concede his political influence . . . .”
“It would appear, then, that the only way that Gilmore could have even a sliver of a shot in a race that has him trailing McGovern-like in the polls in the area of 25 percent as we commence the fall campaign proper is to strike at the heart of the Warner base among those soccer moms and NASCAR and NRA dads. Warner, for what it’s worth, surprised me by responding to the Gilmore attack first on-stage by decrying the politics-as-usual approach that his predecessor in the governor’s mansion was initiating in the name of political expediency, then in talking matter of factly with reporters after his formal remarks. `What I’ve shown in my record is strong support for Second Amendment rights. Matter of fact, the NRA SAID I SIGNED MORE PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT LEGISLATION THAN ANYONE. HECK, MY OWN SISTER HOME SCHOOLS HER KIDS. [Emphasis mine] I am proud of the bipartisan support that I’ve received,’ Warner said. `Mr. Gilmore can say whatever, but Virginians know us, know our records, know our approach. The last thing Washington needs is one more slash-and-burn politician. Politics has moved on in this country. My opponent has not,’ Warner said. `My record has shown the way I work with people – across party lines, across all kinds of lines. People know my record. IF I SAID THAT, IT WAS OVER THE TOP,’ Warner said. [Emphasis mine]
“Gilmore used the attention that he had gained for himself with his own over-the-top comments to play more politics-as-usual in pigeonholing Warner for offering `a lot of generalities’ in his campaign, a tired tack that GOP presidential nominee John McCain has used against Democrat Barack Obama. `He didn’t explain what he was going to do about energy, about drilling. We know he’s not going to support Alaska drilling. His own supporters know that. He’s not going to support offshore drilling. He never denied that,’ Gilmore told reporters after his speech.
“I had talked with Warner about that very topic walking up the hill to Glen Maury from the annual Labor Day parade through the streets of Buena Vista earlier in the morning, and Warner was plenty explicit then. `Energy shouldn’t fall into a partisan line. Washington is trying to make it into an either-or – either you’re for alternative or you’re for drilling. We need to do both,’ Warner said, repeating something I have heard from him on the campaign trail several times this year, and which he hypes on his campaign website.
“That walk in the park was a study in contrast to what we heard from Gilmore later. Warner was still limping pretty badly from a basketball injury that had kept him from making a day of scheduled appearances in Waynesboro and Staunton two weeks earlier, but he still made it a point to crisscross the streets of Buena Vista as he does every year shaking hands with local residents and posing for pictures with people that he’s gotten to know from his many Valley visits dating back to the 1990s. This year’s walk was a little different in that Warner is now a star on the national political stage for the first time, with his keynote speech at last week’s Democratic National Convention prompting comment from some along the parade route about a future appearance in Buena Vista as Presidential Candidate Warner.
“Warner’s focus is on the here and now – on winning his race for the U.S. Senate and on helping Barack Obama win Virginia in his own bid for the White House. `I’m proud that Virginia got a chance to highlight its story,’ he said of his keynote speech at the Democratic National Convention. `I thought it was important, even though it might not have been politically smart, to talk about bipartisanship. Because that’s what the country needs. The country does need to celebrate common ground. You ask 80 percent of the people on this parade route, and they want things fixed. They’re not as concerned about whether it’s a D or an R. They want a chance to see their lives improved,’ Warner said.”



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yelladawgNC

posted October 6, 2008 at 7:26 pm


Re: Pro-Life Supporters of Obama, a subject you raise in this post.
“I’m Catholic, staunchly anti-abortion, and support Obama”
By NICHOLAS P. CAFARDI, Religion News Service/September 30, 2008
Editor’s Note: Cafardi is the second high profile Catholic legal scholar who is staunchly anti-abortion yet says he supports Barack Obama. Douglas Kmiec, Ronald Reagan’s constitutional lawyer as head of the office of legal counsel for the Department of Justice, publicly argued a similar case for Obama several weeks ago.
Excerpts:
“Despite what some Republicans would like Catholics to believe, the list of what the church calls `intrinsically evil acts’ does not begin and end with abortion . . . a committed Catholic must consider all of them in deciding how to vote . . . on other intrinsic evils — an unjust war, torture, ignoring the poor — I can address those evils directly by changing the president.”
“There is a difference between being pro-choice and being pro-abortion. Obama supports government action that would reduce the number of abortions . . . has consistently said `we should be doing everything we can to avoid unwanted pregnancies that might even lead somebody to consider having an abortion.’ He favors a `comprehensive approach where … we are teaching the sacredness of sexuality to our children.’ And he wants to ensure that adoption is an option . . . .”
“Obama worked all of that into his party’s platform this year. By contrast, Republicans actually removed abortion-reduction language from their platform.”
” . . . abortion rates drop when the social safety net is strengthened. If Obama’s economic program will do more to reduce poverty than McCain’s, then is it wrong to conclude that an Obama presidency will also reduce abortions? Not at all.”
“Every faithful Catholic agrees that abortion is an unspeakable evil that must be minimized, if not eliminated. I can help to achieve that without endorsing Republicans’ immoral baggage . . . a vote for Obama is not somehow un-Catholic.”
“I have informed my conscience. I have weighed the facts. I have used my prudential judgment. And I conclude that it is a proper moral choice for this Catholic to support Barack Obama’s candidacy.”



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Charles Cosimano

posted October 6, 2008 at 7:30 pm


It will be interesting to see if Obama actually gets elected (remember, we still cannot accurately poll him) how far his administration will go against pro-lifers. Will it be content to merely freeze them out of the Supreme Court for another generation, or will it actively criminalize them?
Of course there are lots of folks who aren’t Democrats who would cheer the sight of James Dobson being hauled off to a Federal prison.



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PhoenixOrion

posted October 6, 2008 at 8:16 pm


Charles,
I am a Democrat who supports Obama, but I certainly wouldn’t cheer if James Dobson was hauled off to a federal prison. I strongly disagree with Dobson’s beliefs, but he certainly has a right to them. I believe he spreads a lot of harmful misinformation about religion, science, and sexuality (he supports massive censorship projects, the treatment of homosexuals as lesser citizens, denying children accurate information about sexuality and contraception, and placing roadblocks in front of important scientific research), but he has never actually advocated violence against gays and others he disagrees with. I can’t think of a single reason why he should be imprisoned. I think his views should be exposed by decent and free-thinking people for the immoral charade that they are, but saying that he should go to prison is a bit extreme. If James Dobson’s right to free speech (or Michael Moore’s, for that matter) is threatened, my right to free speech is threatened as well (
As bad as Dobson and his ilk are, we have to remember that these Christian fundamentalists in the US are far more peaceful and tolerant than many Islamic fundamentalists in the Middle East. Many of these Islamist leaders (Ahmedinejad, King Abdullah, etc.) believe that homosexuals should be put to death, while James Dobson, Mike Huckabee and co. merely believe that gay couples should not be allowed to marry.



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RIGHTY CONSERVITIVE (DEAF AMERICAN)

posted October 6, 2008 at 8:35 pm


THAT’S NOT TRUE. DOBSON SAYS GAYS SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH. I SAW THIS SIGNED.



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MzEllen

posted October 7, 2008 at 12:24 am


Righty…while I’m not sure that I doubt that some religious parties would say such a thing…I couldn’t find a quote saying that Dobson endorses the death penalty for homosexuality.
Oh…there are lots of quotes by others saying that he does, but none from him. The closest that I found was an endorsement of the death penalty for “grevious crimes”, such as child rape; I not sure that he was thinking of the sexual orientation of the rapist.
Dobson (along with many others) believe that homosexual behavior is sin. Where he (and many of those others) differ is where they/we stand on where the law should be. There are many sexual sins that are not illegal; I won’t bother to name them. For many, homosexuality falls into (or should fall into) that category.



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anonymous reincarnate

posted October 7, 2008 at 12:26 am


dobson’s influence is already waning and he’s receding back into the cave that he came from.



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RIGHTY CONSERVITIVE

posted October 7, 2008 at 12:52 am


MZ ELLEN, COULD BE THE SIGNING WAS WRONG, BUT THAT WAS THE SIGNING.



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MzEllen

posted October 7, 2008 at 7:03 am


Yes…Righty.
You cannot produce a quote, but take the word for “anti-Dobsonites” that he wants the death pentalty for gays?
If you cannot quote the man, this is called “rumor”. If you take th “anti’s” at their word for their signage…without following up looking for a quote…
I’ve seen many posts that claim that Palin charged women for rape kits. I’ve quoted source material from minutes from the Alaska legislature that has the Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Public Safety in hearings about that law saying that “he has not found any police agency that has ever billed a victim.”
I quoted an article by the Wasilla police chief that said in the past they have billed insurance companies. I quoted that same article that said Palin agrees that victims should not be directly billed.
The hoards of investigators have not found one bill. Not one bill – and they asked. Yet Yelladawg says that Palin billed women for rape kits. This is called “RUMOR”.



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anonymous reincarnate

posted October 7, 2008 at 2:24 pm


i don’t think that i’ve chimed in on the palin/rape kit issue. but, i do recall reading a report where one woman testified that there were bills sent to the victim’s insurance companies from the wasilla department, and you agree. what happens when the insurance company does not cover any or a portion of the bill sent to them? what happens with your insurance? well, with mine, the rest is billed to me. i suppose one could still argue that the bill wasn’t sent from palin’s mailbox.
the fact is that the official policy was there that would have allowed the practice of billing the victims or their insurance companies to continue, whether you found a case in practice or not. and this happened with palin’s knowledge.
on the issue with dobson and gays… we know that he interprets the bible literally, and that includes the old testament. so, even if he hasn’t said it (that you can find in the media) what would you assume his position to be on the punishment of such a sin as he believes homosexuality to be?
he thinks that homosexuality can be cured, as if it’s a disease (see ted haggard). he has said, “Homosexuals are not monogamous. They want to destroy the institution of marriage. It will destroy marriage. It will destroy the Earth.” and “But they’re ruining the nation, and they’re seducing your children, and they’re bringing disease to your community.” and “Our poor boys on the front lines will have to face two different enemies, one from the front and one from the rear [by homosexuals].”
then again, maybe righty conservative is confusing dobson with jimmy swaggert who said:

“I’ve never seen a man in my life I wanted to marry. And I’m gonna be blunt and plain: if one ever looks at me like that, I’m gonna kill him and tell God he died.”

or religious republican judge roy moore:

“The State carries the power of the sword, that is, the power to prohibit [homosexual] conduct with physical penalties, such as confinement and even execution. It must use that power to prevent the subversion of children toward this lifestyle.”
or anti-homosexual hate-nut, fred phelps who has said things that cannot be repeated here.
understandably, it’s almost impossible to keep all of these crazies separate when they all spew the same hate, all in the name of god and the bible.



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MzEllen

posted October 7, 2008 at 3:45 pm


what happens when the insurance company does not cover any or a portion of the bill sent to them? what happens with your insurance? well, with mine, the rest is billed to me. i suppose one could still argue that the bill wasn’t sent from palin’s mailbox.
When my insurance doesn’t cover an entire bill, the bill remains with the office that issued the bill in the first place. In the case of my allergist, they waive any balance.
In the case of Alaska (the entire state) the deputy commissioner of the department of public safety has not found even one case of a victim being billed for the balance.
the fact is that the official policy was there that would have allowed the practice of billing the victims or their insurance companies to continue, whether you found a case in practice or not. and this happened with palin’s knowledge.
Well…yeah. And Obama co-sponsored a bill that would do exactly that.
and that includes the old testament. so, even if he hasn’t said it (that you can find in the media) what would you assume his position to be on the punishment of such a sin as he believes homosexuality to be?
I’d start by assuming that as a Christian, he’d have dragged himself into the New Covenant and the penalties that were required in the Old Covenant no longer apply.
Since the New Testament also mentions the homosexual act in a list of sins, I do consider the behavior a sin, but also consider other acts as sin that do not require the death penalty in the New Testament.
There is reason to understand that Dobson, while accepting the whole counsel of Scripture as the Word of God, understands the difference between the Old and New Covenants and also understands that the death penalty no longer applies to a number of sins.
So, unless you can provide a quote, it might be a good plan to consider any further accusations on the point as “rumor”.



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anonymous reincarnate

posted October 7, 2008 at 9:56 pm


first of all, you need to read more carefully. i never accused anything that i didn’t provide quotes for (except offering a possibility for righty conservative’s confusion). i did nothing to further any rumor, but simply asked your opinion.
while i disagree with your interpretation of the bible, i’ll play within your boundaries. what, according to the bible, did jesus say about homosexuality?
and excuse me, but don’t jimmy swaggert, roy moore, and fred phelps also claim to be christians, too? maybe you should explain to them the changes brought about by the new covenant.
“When my insurance doesn’t cover an entire bill, the bill remains with the office that issued the bill in the first place. In the case of my allergist, they waive any balance.”
that’s good insurance – i hope you can hang on to it. it’s better than mine, and mine is better than most. in my case however, the remainder unpaid by the insurance company is passed on to me. that’s what the wasilla policy was set up to do.
“Well…yeah. And Obama co-sponsored a bill that would do exactly that.”
maybe you’re confused. in 2001, obama cosponsored an amendment to the illinois crime victims compensation act. the amendment made it unlawful to try to collect money from the victim. and in layman’s terms, the bill itself was enacted to compensate victims for losses up to $27,000 for out-of-pocket medical expenses, loss of earnings, psychological counseling, and loss of support income due to the crime.



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MzEllen

posted October 7, 2008 at 10:39 pm


Oh my…
I quote Righty and Anon says, “I didn’t say…”
That about says it all.



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anonymous reincarnate

posted October 8, 2008 at 4:01 am


the next time you want to avoid debate, maybe you should say so up front. something like, “hey, this is what i think and i don’t care what your opinion is (neither does anyone else) so shut up.” at least then you’d only come across as rude and not childish and rude. i certainly had no indication that you and righty were having some sort of private conversation here in this open comment area.
seems like you had no problem engaging until the going got tough. coincidentally that’s the same tactic that michele used before she stopped commenting – about the same time that you started.



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