Progressive Revival

Progressive Revival


Psalm 109:8–A Prayer for Obama or Ourselves?

posted by Diana Butler Bass

During the last few days, Psalm 109:8, a Bible verse in the
form of a “prayer for Obama,” has topped the Google trends chart:  “May his days be few; may another take
his office.”  Evidently, a bumper
sticker emblazoned with this verse has popped up in various parts of the
country.  It is a sort of right-wing Christian equivalent to the old “01.20.09” stickers looking forward
to the end of the Bush era.

It was, most likely, intended as a joke.  But it isn’t really very funny.  Especially since the next verse reads,
“May his children be orphans, and his wife a widow.”  The passage goes on the same way–asking God to pulverize this poor
fellow–that he lose all his worldly goods, that his orphans be abandoned, that his
father be remembered as a sinner, and finally, that “his memory be cut off from
the earth.”

Thus, the “Prayer for Obama,” does more than anticipate that
he leaves office; it entreats God to destroy the president.

Psalm 109 belongs to a special category of the psalms known
as “imprecatory” prayers–it is a lament in the form of petition to destroy
one’s enemies.  It is the personal
prayer of an individual, someone who has been dealt an injustice by another–and
usually more powerful–person.  The
words of Psalm 109 are those of deep agony, the longings of a victim for
retribution and justice.  This
psalm is considered one of the most difficult of all the psalms–full of violent
images of vengeance and death.  
Many a biblical critic has struggled with its words–and not a
few–including Roman Catholic and mainline Protestant theologians–recommend that
it not be used in public worship, much less as a bumper-sticker political
slogan.

In his marvelous book, Reflections
on the Psalms,
C.S. Lewis observed:

In
some of the Psalms the spirit of hatred which strikes us in the face is like
the heat from a furnace mouth.  In
others the same spirit ceases to be frightful only by becoming (to a modern
mind) almost comic in its naivety. 
Examples can be found all over the Psalter, but perhaps the worst is in
109
(p. 20).

 

Lewis suspects that it may be best to leave such psalms
alone.  But then he says that we
must face “facts squarely.” 

The
hatred is there–festering, gloating, undisguised–and also we should be wicked
if we in any way condoned or approved it, or (worse still) used it to justify
similar passions in ourselves
(p. 22).

Lewis refers to these psalms as horrible, devilish, cruel,
hateful, and evil.  He believes
that Psalm 109–and the poetry of its kind in the psalter–should point us back
to the evil we carry within and teach us each how to behave with goodness,
humility, and love. 

According then, to the venerable C.S. Lewis, a “Prayer for
Obama” is really a prayer for ourselves to go beyond “festering, gloating,
undisguised” hatred.  “If the
Divine does not call to make us better, it will make us very much worse,” he
reminded his readers,  “Of all bad men,
religious bad men are the worst.”



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Don

posted November 16, 2009 at 5:22 pm


Actually, I disagree with Lewis here. These curses in Psalm 109 are not the rantings of someone deep in sin. The verses framing the curses (vs. 1-5 and 21-31) make clear that this is a humble servant of God, not a bloodthirsty revenge seeker.
The curses in Psalm 109 echo the warnings against disobedience in Deuteronomy 28. Therefore, the key to understanding this Psalm is the covenant with Israel. The psalmist is reminding God of these curses and asking God to deal with his enemies, fellow Israelites, under the terms of the Deuteronomic covenant, because their enmity is evidence of their disobedience to the covenant.
From a Christian standpoint, the curses no longer apply because the terms of the Deuteronomic covenant no longer apply under the New Covenant in Christ. Therefore, it’s entirely valid to leave this Psalm out of the liturgical readings.
Even less does this Psalm apply to a leader of a secular nation. Shame on those who use this Psalm to vent their political frustrations.
Peace,
Don



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Ed

posted November 17, 2009 at 7:03 am


Don, with all due respect to your theological leaning, are you saying that there is no evil within us? I see this as Lewis’s point as well as the author’s commentary. There is evil within us and it will continue unabaited as long as we are in denial as to its reality and is origin.
Personally, the calls to boot Bush were and are on the same par as the calls to boot Obama; both are partisan at best and evil at worse. I refuse to blame any President for the evils and flaws within our nation.



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Don

posted November 17, 2009 at 8:30 am


Ed:
What a leap to conclude that I don’t see any evil within us; I didn’t say anything remotely to that effect! Why would you think that is what I wrote? Of course we all have evil within us.
But that’s not the point of Lewis’ criticism of the imprecatory psalms. If you read his full discussion of these psalms, you will realize that Lewis believed these psalms were the products of sinful, revenge-seeking thoughts. Nothing could be further from the truth. In Deuteronomy 28, God promised, under the terms of the covenant God made with Israel, blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. The psalmist in Psalm 109 is reminding God of these covenant terms and is asking God to visit the curses God promised onto his covenant-breaking enemies. That’s all I was trying to say.
I fully agree with your assessment of the political use of this Psalm, as I indicated in my first post.



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David Justin Lynch

posted November 17, 2009 at 9:02 am


Psalm 109 has great value to me as personal devotion. I am an attorney, in particular, a litigator. Psalm 109 is part of my prayers on the eve of important court proceedings. I do agree it should be used sparingly in public worship. It is strong medicine, to be reserved for the most grievous of diseases – like bank executives who foreclose on people and kick them out of their houses, insurance executives who rescind the policies of sick people, and similar, truly evil people.



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JUNIA

posted November 17, 2009 at 11:40 am


What a sad state of affairs that so-called Christians think that God hears their twisted prayers. To use the excuse that the writer of the Psalms wrote 109:8 and that allows them to use it in a wicked request directed toward the leader of this nation is a reflection of how far we as a people have fallen from God.
These same evangelical, Bible thumpers seem to forget what Romans 13:1-7 says about God placing authorities in their positions, but maybe these only counts, when it is someone they like. Think again, because it also says that God will punish those who disobey the authorities He has allowed to rule.



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Your Name

posted November 17, 2009 at 4:38 pm


point: the use of this psalm on a bumper sticker is a reflection of a statement by those of us that believe the current president is doing harm to the greatest nation in the world by his agenda and the less time he is in office the better for the country and its populace.
point: unless one use the continuation of the following psalms then it is not a wicked prayer or twisted prayer. It is what it is, a simple request to limit his time in office to the shortest length possible.
point: God gives his grace to the leaders we elect, however, if you look at the pre-election rhetoric of the president and his actions taken after office it is clear he got himself elected under false pretenses, therefore asking to have him replaced with a more trustful if not righteous person is the right thing to do.
point: This psalm was used by peter to describr the replacement of Judas with Mathias, in Acts:20. so it is not unprecedented.



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Diana Butler Bass

posted November 17, 2009 at 5:31 pm


I can’t actually believe that “your name” defended this. And equated Judas with Barack Obama to boot! Wow.



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OneGod1

posted November 17, 2009 at 6:03 pm


And to think that some “christians” would take the bumper stickers seriously! How dare one call oneself a follower of the One True God and pray for and hope for the failure of an individual and the utter destruction of his family! The problem is — many people that claim to be believers do just that. The hate-mongering, rumor believing (even after being proven untrue), name calling, life threatening, munitions carrying folk that claim to be evangelical Christian in America is staggering to the mind!



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OneGod1

posted November 17, 2009 at 6:04 pm


And to think that some “christians” would take the bumper stickers seriously! How dare one call oneself a follower of the One True God and pray for and hope for the failure of an individual and the utter destruction of his family! The problem is — many people that claim to be believers do just that. The hate-mongering, rumor believing (even after being proven untrue), name calling, life threatening, munitions carrying folk that claim to be evangelical Christian in America is staggering to the mind!



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Sheri Kling

posted November 17, 2009 at 6:37 pm


Anyone who uses prayer for the purposes of destroying or bringing others down is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit in my book and ignores the adage of “what goes around, comes around” to their peril. I, like other progressives, eagerly anticipated 1.20.09, but I certainly would never have prayed for anything to happen to him in order to end his presidency prematurely. Christians who do so now regarding President Obama are completely turning their backs on their Lord and everything Jesus stood for.



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Leo Leahy

posted November 17, 2009 at 9:56 pm


Use of this psalm citation is, as Frank Schaeffer said on the Rachel Maddow Show tonight, “trawling for assassins.” This is the sort of thing that was heard in Israel before a right-winger took it to heart and killed Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin because of his peace initiatives. Evangelical Christians should be ashamed of their attempts to recreate that atmosphere in the United States — but I suspect that they are beyond shame.



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Jamieteevee

posted November 17, 2009 at 11:35 pm


It is a call for murder. It is not funny. Keep reading. Know your Bible and the evil done in Gods name with it.
It is BLOODY MURDER and it cannot be interpreted any other way.
The person with this bumper sticker is calling for and applauding the assassination of the President of the United States.
8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.
Vile and reprehensible.



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JT

posted November 18, 2009 at 1:14 am


Any true believer (Christian) understands the bible and knows that it must be read and studied as a whole, not to pick out verses to make a “hateful point” with no regard for what precedes or follow that verse. To do so is irresponsible. Anyone who finds this funny or acceptable and claims to be a Christian needs to examine their heart. People who are using this verse and misusing it for profit are in sin. This is not what the bible teaches.
1 -3The first thing I want you to do is pray. Pray every way you know how, for everyone you know. Pray especially for rulers and their governments to rule well so we can be quietly about our business of living simply, in humble contemplation. This is the way our Savior God wants us to live. 1 Timothy 2:1-3 (New Testament – Message Bible)



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andrew

posted November 18, 2009 at 2:41 am


This just goes to show that religion is the root of all evil. Sounds very familiar to radical muslims using the koran to call for holy war….



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Solange

posted November 18, 2009 at 5:00 am


– Outside the White House, is there anywhere to light candles or stand vigil or leave prayers, tokens or well wishes? If so I urge all those who are local to the DC area to pass by in a show of suport for our First Family at this hour of need. I think we have to start taking action to pray in public in support of our president, and for poor Michelle and the children. I will start making my plans to travel to do so.



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John Paul Telhomme

posted November 18, 2009 at 5:49 am


Solange, Easy… Don’t panic my sister. All will be well. We humans sometimes are so full of ourselves, are so arogant that we begin to think that God is so weak that he needs our help. God, who has guided Obama and Michele, will continue to guide them. Don’t panick. Just pray, thank God for his goodness and sleep well.



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jade roberts

posted November 18, 2009 at 7:45 am


This is in no way funny or to be taken as a joke. There are fringe members of the far right wing that could that this as a call an justification for doing the unthinkable. Just like the man that murdered Dr George Tiller.



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Patty

posted November 18, 2009 at 10:24 am


Just like the joke Q: Who had the first motorcycle in the bible?
A:David-“For the roar of David’s Triumph could be heard throughout the land”, This bumper sticker is a joke….no one (with a Christian heart) wished the rest of Psalm 109 on him — a joke…that is all.



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voiceofreason

posted November 18, 2009 at 11:59 am


@patty:
the comparison of David’s roar and the motorcycle is a metaphor so the joke is easily extracted. there is no comparison being made (and therefore no joke) about Obama and psalm 109. if I yell “fire” in a crowded room, the police don’t care if I did it as a joke – I’m going to jail. would you think it’s a joke if a seemingly radical muslim yells “jihad!” over and over while holding an American flag? even if he told you he did it as a joke? wake up.



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Your Name

posted November 18, 2009 at 1:08 pm


Your Name,
Those of us who believe that George W. Bush did great harm to our nation by his cowboy antics, thoughtless comments and poorly conceived wars (and I am a center right moderate independent, btw) never were even close to as vicious as you are right now. I can only pray that you and your “points” are truly on the right wing fanatic fringe and are not the position of the more mainstream conservative Christians. As far as I know, not a single one of my progressive friends ever used the Bible or any of the verses to pray for the death of the prior president – despite the fact that he destroyed our moral high ground with the world, authorized spying on our countries own citizens and oversaw the largest destruction of wealth and economic wellbeing in the history of this country – not to mention allowing all those criminals to bilk the middle class out of millions of dollars.
I pray for our President and his family every night – that God will watch over and protect him from the lunatics that would murder him in the name of God and that God will guide him to bringing this nation back to its position of prominence and honor in the world.



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Rick

posted November 18, 2009 at 1:38 pm


I fail to see anything funny or amusing in suggesting the death of our president. The people who spread this type of hatred, do not belong in this country. This is a form of terrorist propaganda plain and simple.
Any kind of talk of the death of our president takes me back to the day JFK was murdered. It left a scar on our nation that still shows up from time to time. The people who wish bad things on the president and his family are psychotic and need to be locked up as a threat to national security. I was not a Bush or McCain supporter and do not like Sarah Palin but I do not wish anything bad to come upon them. Blatant hatred should be illegal and punishable by imprisonment. It is the most dangerous of social diseases. If a muslim were going around asking for the demise of the president, he would quickly be arrested.



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jestrfyl

posted November 18, 2009 at 2:00 pm


This is no “May the Bird of Paradise Fly Up Your Nose” kind of joke. It is a Psalm of frustration and fear. It is the Psalm for people who cower in the shadow of a bully. Thankfully, it is not the Psalm for someone who has nothing to lose. Also, verse 2-5 could also be Obama’s own prayer. And if that is not enough to dissuade these mindless mockers, they ought to read verses 17-20, because it applies to them!
Pillaging scripture to make one’s point is an exercise in silliness. Beware all who do so, for God’s Word is a Sword that will pierce as surely upon its return as it does with each thrust.



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Matt

posted November 18, 2009 at 2:59 pm


This is totally disgusting I cannot believe that there are right winged christians that say this is type of propaganda is acceptable. I mean to think that there are christians out there that wish for the death of our president is irresponsible and disgraceful to our country.
PS: and to think that christians are full of love devotion and acception for god’s children no matter who they are or what they do.



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Jay Rogers

posted November 18, 2009 at 3:50 pm


Yes, this bumpersticker is not imploring God for a 2012 election day defeat, but for an untimely death due to the curse of God on a covenant-breaker.
Of course, right away the liberal elite and many Christian leaders are decrying this “unloving” use of the imprecatory Psalms to pray for our president.
The question they ask rhetorically is, “When is it ever right to pray for the death of a president?”
The answer: “Always!”
There is a common misconception about prayer. Many people believe that prayer is a form of magic. We pray and God supernaturally answers us according to our whims. Without going into a deep theological treatise on all the reasons why this is wrong, I will just concede that we need the biblical prayers because we do not now how to pray.
Indeed. Prayer does not move God. God is already moved. Prayer puts us in the position to receive the blessings and promises of God given before the foundation of the earth. We pray according to the model of scripture to know the will of God so that we might obey Him.
Further, all professing believers are in a covenant with God. When we were baptized, the covenant was initiated. This covenant is confirmed by the sacrament of Holy Communion each time we partake of the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
In the Christian church, sacraments are covenant-making and covenant-renewing oaths. The Apostle Paul went as far as to say that those who partake of the sacrament in a state of unrepentant sin are knowingly entering into judgment (1 Corinthians 11:26-32).
To be a Christian is to be a covenant-keeper. But what happens when the covenant is broken?
Throughout scripture we see the covenant of God and the corresponding blessings and curses that come when we keep or break the covenant.
Barack Obama is a professing Christian. He was a member of a church that holds to the Apostles and Nicene Creeds and the Heidelberg Catechism. Among his greatest sins, Barack Obama is also pro-abortion. He has fought hard to keep abortion legal through all nine months of pregnancy, by any method, for any reason. Obama even opposed the Born-Alive Infant Protection Act in his home state — a bill that even Planned Parenthood and NARAL refused to oppose because it essentially outlawed the infanticide of children born-alive after botched abortions.
When not only liberal commentators, but also squeamish preachers condemn those who condemn Obama, they are reaching the height of hypocrisy. They cite a so-called “Christian love” that includes looking the other way rather than oppose our president’s open support of child murder.
Those who would pray Psalm 109:8 for Barack Obama need to understand that imprecatory prayer is not a magical formula. If God blesses us, who can curse us? For how can our enemies curse whom God has not cursed? We may curse those whom God has already cursed, but in the next breath, we need to also bless those whom God has blessed. The focus must always be God’s sovereign glory and the honor of His name.
However wrong the intentions might be, it is no more of a sin to pray the covenantal curses of God on President Obama than it is to remain silent about his sin. Scripture assures us that if Barack Obama, one of God’s covenant people, is graced with the gift of repentance, then God will surely bless him.
In short, don’t pray Psalm 109:8 for President Obama. We are not to judge or curse our enemies. We are to pray and proclaim what God himself has already decreed before the foundation of the world toward both His friends and His enemies. Pray all of Psalm 109. Pray all of the blessings and curses found in the Law-Word of God.
Psalm 109 (KJV)
1 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;
2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.
4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.
5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.
12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
15 Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.
16 Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
17 As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.
18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.
19 Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.
20 Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD, and of them that speak evil against my soul.
21 But do thou for me, O GOD the Lord, for thy name’s sake: because thy mercy is good, deliver thou me.
22 For I am poor and needy, and my heart is wounded within me.
23 I am gone like the shadow when it declineth: I am tossed up and down as the locust.
24 My knees are weak through fasting; and my flesh faileth of fatness.
25 I became also a reproach unto them: when they looked upon me they shaked their heads.
26 Help me, O LORD my God: O save me according to thy mercy:
27 That they may know that this is thy hand; that thou, LORD, hast done it.
28 Let them curse, but bless thou: when they arise, let them be ashamed; but let thy servant rejoice.
29 Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame, and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.
30 I will greatly praise the LORD with my mouth; yea, I will praise him among the multitude.
31 For he shall stand at the right hand of the poor, to save him from those that condemn his soul.



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Nate W

posted November 18, 2009 at 7:00 pm


I agree that this is a poor choice of biblical citations, but how many people do we know out there who are actually using this verse to refer to assassination and not, you know, the more reasonable defeat in an election or even impeachment? Christians take verses out of context all the time, even when they’re seriously trying to interpret the Bible. To suggest that we need to read a joke on a bumper sticker within its larger context is downright silly.
There’s a thing called hermeneutical charity which is itself a form of loving one’s neighbor. It means that when we read a statement that can be taken in many ways, we assume that the best interpretation is the right one until we’re given more evidence that makes that interpretation implausible. Those who are reading the worst into this bumper sticker are being pretty uncharitable, if you ask me. Their outrage is nothing more than self-righteousness.



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Pete Kawa

posted November 18, 2009 at 7:21 pm


It is obvious that the comments regarding the prayer for Obama based on Psalm 109.8 are from Obama-ite liberals.
Truth is, I doubt that the author took into consideration the following scriptural statements concerning his children becoming fatherless and his wife becoming a widow. It was merely used as a satire, at face value primarily to be funny; otherwise, why would they not have included the rest of the passage?
You people are quick to jump on conservatives, but you yourselves have consistently proven yourselves to be grossly inaccurate in all your quotations, arrogantly impetuous, and actually quite stupid, especially regarding historical facts. But, after all, moral or factual accountability is not a requirement for liberality, so long as you are successful in crushing all opposition to your socialistic and questionable, junk-science environmental ideologies.



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John Bryans Fontaine

posted November 18, 2009 at 9:09 pm


The company that produces this disgusting, seditious T-shirt is Zazzle.com. Here is more info for readers who would like to contact the secret service and report these would-be assassins:
More information about Zazzle:
Zazzle.com
1900 Seaport Blvd
4th Fl
Rewood City, CA 94063
US
Domain Name: ZAZZLE.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact: Barbara Tam(?)
phone: 650-872-8000



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Shannon S.

posted November 18, 2009 at 10:02 pm


Nate W, I disagree. Whether or nor the authors of the initial message took into consideration the rest of the Psalm is beside the point. They are still distorting Biblical text for their own hateful messages. It’s almost as bad as people who use the Bible as way of expressing bigotry towards the the gay community or towards women. These are the people who give Christians in America a bad name. When people think Christian, they think of these close-minded nutters with “A Prayer for Obama” bumper stickers, masking their messages of ignorance and hate behind the Bible. I’m not suggesting, by any means, that all Republican or Evangelical Christians fall into this category, but the ones who do force progressive Christians to be constantly on the defense.
I would urge Christians to think twice about the message these stickers are sending before blindly slapping one the bumper.



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Shannon S.

posted November 18, 2009 at 10:03 pm


Nate W, I disagree. Whether or nor the authors of the initial message took into consideration the rest of the Psalm is beside the point. They are still distorting Biblical text for their own hateful messages. It’s almost as bad as people who use the Bible as way of expressing bigotry towards the the gay community or towards women. These are the people who give Christians in America a bad name. When people think Christian, they think of these close-minded nutters with “A Prayer for Obama” bumper stickers, masking their messages of ignorance and hate behind the Bible. I’m not suggesting, by any means, that all Republican or Evangelical Christians fall into this category, but the ones who do force progressive Christians to be constantly on the defense.
I would urge Christians to think twice about the message these stickers are sending before blindly slapping one on the bumper.



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Alex B.

posted November 18, 2009 at 11:43 pm


Although my first reaction to this incident was to feel that this was indeed intended as a clever joke and would do nothing more, upon further consideration, I agree with Shannon S. that we, as good Christians, should be weary of how we display our faith to the world. Although it seems the creator of this bumper sticker may not have intended to harm other children of the Lord, upon further reading of the Holy works we are able to see that one may find it easy to interpret this bumper sticker as far more than a simple joke. In fact, it is extremely hurtful towards Barrack Obama and his family as a whole and I feel as though it is damaging to the view we advertise for Jesus Christ. It detracts from the message of the Lord and only does harm and (Nate) although we can hope that people interpret this in the best form possible, I think that they shouldn’t be expected to do so.



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karinova

posted November 19, 2009 at 12:39 am


These people don’t even understand what they’re quoting.
I’m not even a believer, and I haven’t been to church in decades, yet I understand it better than they do. I can’t believe this many people can get it THIS wrong.
For the interested, here’s a quick translation:
In verses 1-5 the author of the psalm sets up the situation: “I’m a good man, but I’m surrounded by haters who attack me for no reason.” He’s righteous; we can assume his enemies are not. In verses 6-19, he laments all the calamitous things (up to and including death) that these enemies are wishing upon HIM. I repeat: everything from verse 6 to verse 19 is a QUOTE; those are the things evil men are wishing on the AUTHOR. The whole point is that he, a righteous guy, doesn’t deserve this kind of ill will. In verse 20, he then sings/prays that ALL THOSE THINGS WILL BE VISITED ON HIS ENEMIES INSTEAD. And the last 11 verses wrap up with some (slightly vengeful) praisifying: “The Lord’s love is boundless! However, He is totally going to smite those jerks.”
It’s pitiful (almost funny, even) that the people buying this bumper sticker don’t even understand that they’re put on the wrong side of the psalm. THEY are the ones constantly spewing ill will. They’d better hope everything they’re wishing isn’t visited upon them!



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Dan

posted November 19, 2009 at 6:17 am


The Conservatives are looking for assassins. There can be no mistaking that.



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A108

posted November 19, 2009 at 8:19 am


I find it very disturbing that many Christians are discounting the possible consequences of this use of Psalms 109.
Yes, liberals and progressive – like me! – were very upset about Bush#43. I never once, however, prayed for his death or early demise, never once asked God to smite him. Every night, I prayed for God to protect him and to guide him. If a conservative here wants to interpret that as my cynical fear that the Vice President would have been even worse, they are welcome to do so.
The current situation, however, is not so easily dismissed. First, the secret service has openly admitted that serious threats towards our president are running at four times the highest level they ever did for President Bush #43.
Second, as much as the conservative Christians like to point to our many failings as liberals and progressives, any reading of crime statistics over the last year will show that politically and or religiously motivated crime in America has been nearly exclusively from conservative Christians and Muslims. If we consider only murder and threats of murder, exclusively.
I think the conservative Christians are absolutely right in feeling we liberals and progressives and non-conservative Christians criticized the last administration. We did! Sometimes we went too far in our anger. We did not, however, openly pray for the death of the President, we did not commit these acts of violence.
I am old enough to remember the atmosphere before JFK’s assassination. I remember the ‘feeling’ in the air before Martin Luther King Jr. was murdered. I very much remember the statements of the anti-gay crowd in San Francisco prior to the murder of Mayor Moscone and Harvey Milk. There is much of that feeling in the air right now. These people are from your side of the aisle, you are the only people who have a chance to talk to them – you barely speak to us on the left side of Christianity as it is, they won’t, at all.
It is very much up to those of you conservative Christians dismissing this all as humor or not so serious or profound evidence of faith in God to reign these people in.
Should, may God forefend, something happen, it will be too late for you to disavow them and for us to point our fingers and say: “Ha! We told you so.”
This is too serious, too dangerous.
Please. Let us fight our culture-wars over everything else. Our president deserves the respect and safety of his office, regardless of whether we care for him personally (I do!) or not.
For those who are too blinded by anger and hatred for us lib-ruls, may I add as a practical matter that your side fell furthest away from attaining your goals after people from your side committed murder in the 1960’s and 70’s? The broad center in this country doesn’t countenance violence and you’re not going to win them by taking in up again.



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Peter Carey+

posted November 19, 2009 at 8:32 am


I would suggest that we’d all do well to read the entire psalm. The part that had ended up on bumper stickers is a verse that the just ruler is quoting to God, to show how his accusers have been so unjust, hateful, and mean.
Prooftexting the Bible (taking one line out of context to prove a point) rarely gives respect to the Bible (or a particular book) as a whole.
I agree that these passages are hateful, cruel, and provoke violence if used alone, but if we read the entire Psalm 109, we may see that the essence of the Psalm seems to be that God is on the side of just ruler, and these hateful charges are unjustified and will not be tolerated by God.
Check it out in entirety…
Here are some more thoughts I had on the topic:
http://santospopsicles.blogspot.com/2009/11/they-may-curse-but-you-will-bless-psalm.html
Rather than throw out the text, I would say that we need to lift up the entire section, and see how we might understand it –
Trouble is, nuance (and 30+ verses) doesn’t fit on a bumper sticker..
Peter Carey+



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Your Name

posted November 19, 2009 at 9:35 am


A108, I appreciate your kind sentiments and the fact that you prayed for the well-being of Bush 43. The fact is, you were in a small minority of the liberal-left. The hatred for that man was far worse that anything I’ve seen for Obama. Yes, a lot of people think he’s taking us in a completely wrong direction, but I don’t hear anyone (including the folks buying this bumper sticker) calling for his death. I wouldn’t buy it myself, but those that are are just making a joke about his ‘days in office’ being few. Have you seen any movies being made about the execution of Obama? It happened Bush! A full-featured Hollywood movie about executing a SITTING president!



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A108

posted November 19, 2009 at 2:41 pm


I suspect much of what we read and hear relative to any controversial or hotly contested issue is determined by the sources we use.
I don’t think there is much value in discussing which side harboured the greatest amount of hatred. Hatred is hatred and harm is harm.
When the secret service repeatedly says – the credible threats are enormously higher than towards any previous administration – I believe them. It doesn’t seem relevant to me whether those committing sedition and plotting murder do so under the auspices of the far Christian right (and, surely, nobody here is going to pretend only us on the left have our whack-jobs?) or whether they are Muslims or, well, it just doesn’t matter. What does matter is that this is the United States of America and not some banana republic and we either respect the organs of government set up by the Constitution or we might as well forget the whole thing.
Now, I have read every single comment on this thread and the, hmm, hermeneutics involved in turning a bumpersticker on this Psalm into an endorsement for social justice and not an attack on the President of the United States are, to put it mildly, so far into the realm of interpretation that, were someone from my side of the Christian culture-wars to apply such analysis, they would immediately (and rightly) be accused of, well…
Come on, folks on the right. Wouldn’t it just be better for all of us to accept that at this point, your side and my side are not going to even come close to seeing eye to eye on much of anything?
The only way this country survived the last eight years was through the respect those of us on the left had for the Constitution. You on the right are now going to have to swallow hard, accept that you lost the election, that elections have consequences (even ones decided by hanging “chads” and activist Justices) and either fight with all the tools open to you through the Constitution or commit sedition or, well, yeah – it really comes down to this in the end. We said nasty things about Bush#43, I admit we did.
That is going to be pretty thin gruel for your side if a whack-job does, may God forefend!, actually get somewhere. You lost fair and square. Work towards 2010, work towards 2012 and, if you can convince the independents, maybe you can put Palin and Beck into office. Or not. Maybe, we will make such a mess of things that every independent will jump for joy at the opportunity to vote for you. Kill our President, even attempt to kill him and you will lose all but the roughly 25% of the country who vote for you under all circumstances. For a good, long, time. I didn’t like Reagan (to put it mildly) but I not only prayed for his recovery, I called every single one of my liberal friends and asked them to do so, as well. The one and only time the man had my sympathy.
You’re fighting back with Fox news, with Tea-Parties, with all sorts of bought and paid for lobbyists. You won in Maine (if only narrowly), you won in New Jersey, you won in Virginia. Democracy still works.
Please, let us continue to fight our culture wars to our souls’ discontent. But, again, please – you are the only ones who can reign in this emerging evil. Pretending it isn’t there because you really didn’t like what we said about Bush #43 is just not going to cut it.
Since the Hate-Crimes-Act was passed only a few weeks ago, we have seen two cases of horrible murder of gays in which the local officials shrugged their shoulders and said “the blankety-blank queer had it coming to them!” (if you speak Spanish, you’ll find the comments even more callous in that language.)
And yet, on the 16th of this month, when a group of far-right Christians gathered to provoke a federal response against their purposefully hateful words, what happened? Nothing. Their first amendment rights protected them and permitted them to say some really bad things in my Lord’s name.
Yes, there have been times when the left went too far. I admit that. Right now, tho’, it isn’t us who are making the threats and, indeed, sowing the seeds of violence.
By the by, that Hollywood Film was not made in the US, was not made by Americans and was not Hollywood. It was a nasty piece of work, made in the UK by people who argued that it was pure coincidence that the US President at the time just “happened” to be Bush#43 and had nothing to do with him. Collateral damage, so to speak. Yeah, right. It was hatred pure and simple But it was not American nor was it liberal Christians.
I was appalled and I found the film to be exactly on the same level as this misuse of Psalm 109.
I’ll stop now, but, really, had these people buying this text really meant the President anything but harm, then why on earth didn’t they chose another verse from the Bible which would fit on a bumper sticker and which unequivocally expresses disagreement without threatening the President’s life?
Matthew 7:16 comes to mind…Goodness, we liberals have enough bumper stickers with that verse left over, you could have them at a discount!



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waitingforvizzini

posted November 19, 2009 at 6:36 pm


The people who buy this merchandise are defining themselves as the people David (the Psalmist) is talking about in verses 1-5, 20 of the same Psalm and therefore I guess that means Barack is David.
Psalm 109
Prayer for Vindication and Vengeance To the leader. Of David. A
Psalm.
1Do not be silent, O God of my praise.
2For wicked and deceitful mouths are opened against me, speaking
against me with lying tongues.
3They beset me with words of hate, and attack me without cause.
4In return for my love they accuse me, even while I make prayer for
them.*
5So they reward me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
6They say,‘Appoint a wicked man against him; let an accuser stand on his right.
7When he is tried, let him be found guilty; let his prayer be counted
as sin.
8May his days be few; may another seize his position
9May his children be orphans, and his wife a widow.
Later, he wishes all the evil they speak against him in verses 6-19 to be visited upon them in verse 20
20May that be the reward of my accusers from the Lord, of those who speak evil against my life.
It is sort of a biblical “I’m rubber you’re glue” kinda thing.
Just more evidence these nutjobs can’t or won’t understand and/or read the Bible.



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A108

posted November 19, 2009 at 7:29 pm


It almost seems as if there is a totally different face to much (not all) of conservative Christianity than to the rest of us. That face is not one of grace and charity, but one of hatred and rage.
Since I made the comment above on two gays being murdered since the hate crime bill passed and local authorities in both cases having first clearly stated it was their just desserts, we have now the very disturbing news from Houston of a young man beaten with a metal pipe by eight other students – for being “gay”. His crime was to sit on the school bus. Their intent was to “beat the gay out of him.”
He will survive, tho’ he suffered a concussion and other serious injuries. It took a concerned home-owner with a shotgun to drive the eight young men off who were attacking him.
Not, of course, a word on that over at Texas based crunchycon…where they are busy chasing Andrew Sullivan with Palin’s, well, never mind. Far more relevant.
Oh, and the gay man who was so brutally murdered in Puerto Rico wasn’t gay, he was a transsexual. The murderer states he was trying to pick up a prostitute and none of the girls “wanted him”.
Could one of those conservative Christians who are so ardently defending Psalm 109 as just a spot of light-hearted humour explain to me again why we don’t need any protections for gays and transgender? That’s three high-profile cases and we still have 11 days left in the month…
I read my Bible every day. I pray to the Lord for guidance. Nowhere do I find one word from Him saying it’s our Christian duty to murder politicians we dislike, to dismember and kill gays and transgender, to beat children with metal pipes because we “think” they are gay.
Seriously – I’d like to hear the explanation for this. Maybe it is time for American Christianity to split into two religions – those of us who believe Christ came to die for our sins and, in redeeming us requires only of us that we admit our inability to free ourselves from sin without Him and those who believe Christ’s grace, bought through His suffering and death gives them a free pass to kill, torture, persecute and maim all who don’t see things through their eyes.



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Your Name

posted November 19, 2009 at 10:00 pm


Here are a few appropriate bible verses for Palin! *wink*
http://ecclesia.org/truth/lying.html



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Nate W

posted November 19, 2009 at 10:31 pm


I’m not sure how much we actually disagree, Shannon. As I said, I think the whole thing is a really bad idea. But that doesn’t mean that those who are carrying on about the Religious Right wanting to assassinate Obama aren’t way overreacting.



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Jordan Lund

posted November 19, 2009 at 11:15 pm


It’s funny, verse 2 through 5 of that same Psalm seem more fitting for Obama’s situation:
2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.
4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.
5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.



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A108

posted November 20, 2009 at 7:04 am


One of the greatest problems we face in these culture-wars is the tendency – on both sides – to see the other side as purely evil.
Speaking as a liberal, progressive Christian, no, I don’t believe that all conservative Christians are out to commit sedition and murder.
That said, all the violence in the last months – and there is no way to pretend there hasn’t been violence – has come from the whack-jobs on the right side, not the left.
This is why we, on the left, are worried. The violence, the murder is there and, frankly, you folks on the right side do have a responsibility to keep your whackos under control, just as you very rightly told us on the left to keep our nut-jobs under control during the Bush#43 years.
Again, this is not a question of how much we disagree with each other – when the secret service (which is conservative by nature, not liberal) says the serious threats against the president are running four times higher than under Bush#43, it’s pointless to complain about how horribly rude we on the left were the last years. Yes, we were. OK? But we didn’t try to kill him.
There is a difference.
Practically speaking, should something horrible happen, you on the right can forget the independents for quite some time – and without them, you have zero chance of regaining power. Worth considering, if nothing else matters.



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Obery Hendricks

posted November 20, 2009 at 10:46 pm


I am a writer and a commentator on religion and politics. That is what I do. But I must admit that I am at a loss for words with this new madness. I can only shudder at how sick and hateful the religious right is daily proving to be. If they truly cared about the teachings of Jesus, they would be quoting his admonitions to love rather than culling for Old Testament sayings to justify their hatred. I don’t care how much they call themselves Christians. They are not followers of Jesus. They are hateful people who use his name in vain for selfish, shameful reasons.



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Marie

posted November 20, 2009 at 11:55 pm


He needs prayers hopefully God guides him in the Right direction. Sad that prayer for him is being used in a bad way Prayer should always be used for good ! Never for bad ! Granted Obama is not doing any good for the country so far not one thing good. But get real who ever prays for his demise is wrong in doing so. If you pray then please pray for good to come from his presidency ask God to guide him to do good for the country and the people. Not for bad things to happen to him. He is a human being just like you and me and no one should ever be praying for evil to happen to a person .



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Samson

posted November 21, 2009 at 1:05 am


All I want to say is to all who call themselves christians read 1 Tim. 2:1-3
1FIRST OF all, then, I admonish and urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be offered on behalf of all men,
2For kings and all who are in positions of authority or high responsibility, that we may pass a quiet and undisturbed life [and inwardly] a peaceable one in all godliness and reverence and seriousness in every way.
3For such [praying] is good and right, and pleasing and acceptable to God our Savior,



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RANDY

posted November 21, 2009 at 10:50 am


IT ALL ABOUT A BETRAYER, NAMED JUDAS ISSCARIOT, AND TO PROMOTE ISLAM OVER CHRIST, IS THE GREATEST BETRAYAL OF ALL…….
PSALM 109;8 IS RIGHT



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Sol

posted November 21, 2009 at 11:17 am


It is so sad, how people use that “in name of God” to spread they evil mind. I agree with Obery, Marie and Samson.
This country is considerate a “christian country” until that they are touched in they money.
People reveal what they are NOT in good cirunstances but in the BAD circunstances. This is what they reveal now.
Hate, just hate.
If we belive that all autority is conceived by God, why they are so mad with OBama?
It is mean, they dont like that God allow Him to be the president.
He needs prayer to be wise and good for this nation.
I am sick this religious people.
If we really had accept Jesus as our savoirs we mut to follow His words. His words was just about how to love. This is God’s purpose for all.



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A108

posted November 21, 2009 at 12:02 pm


Nate W,
If you’ve been following this discussion (can’t say as I’d much blame you if you’d left in disgust), I’d be curious whether you still feel we are overreacting on the left?
Some of the things said this last week on the floor of Congress were pretty, well, I am just very glad none of our idiots on the left said such things when you were in power.
Not to mention folks like, RANDY, here. These are the ones who frighten us – not sane, rational people with whom we disagree and are waging a culture war. Yes, both of us want to win and no, there’s not much room for compromise. Should you win, I won’t be up in arms about it, I’ll just pack up my small business and move to Canada. Should we win, you’ll be mighty troubled about it for, oh, ten-fifteen years or so, and then, just as your side did with black rights, you’ll realise we’re all just human after all.
These folks, sadly, are out to play for keeps.
Yes, it frightens me. If you’ve been paying attention, I suspect it should be frightening you, too.



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Mom-of-four

posted November 21, 2009 at 1:30 pm


It’s mean spirited, nasty, and it’s not a Christian thing to do. It’s one more case of extremism. Jesus said to pray FOR your enemies, not against them. They are just proving how NOT Christian they are!!!!!! Either that or they don’t really believe what they say they believe.
Read Tony Campolo’s book “Was Jesus a Republican or a Democrat?”. Because Jesus would be on the side of the disenfranchised, poor, and helpless. It wouldn’t matter to him which party they belonged to! For Shame, all you Hypocrites and Pharisees, you know who you are. Sarah is a prime example! Why isn’t she home with her special needs baby who needs his mom instead of causing all the trouble she can.
God knows your innermost heart, and whether it belongs to him or to gaining power/money for yourselves. He will say on the day of judgement “Where were you when I was poor, and hungry?” “Where were you when I was sick and in jail?” He won’t ask how your 401K fared or if you homeschooled your kids!
I’m really frightened that these hateful people will take over our government and remove that passage about separation of church and state.



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Carol

posted November 21, 2009 at 2:00 pm


They are only talking about verse 8 to get him out of office. Nothing was said about the following verses.



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Pat Dansby

posted November 21, 2009 at 2:01 pm


I Pray for the President, Congress and all our World Leaders. A President, no matter his wants, may only agree (sign bills) or disagree (veto bills). He cannot create bills. He can suggest but if Congress chooses to not act on those suggestions he can only deal with his own personal anger and frustrations. He is helpless without Congress. If we as citizens who vote, do not like something or want something to be changed we need to contact Congress people and let them know we disagree. We need to pray for our President and all our leaders that God, not Satan, lead them to do what is in accordance with God’s will. We need to ensure that we as voting citizens vote in moral people and if those people become corrupt by politics, we need to vote them out of office. I do not judge a person’s personal wants and/or dislikes as the Bible clearly states Judge not that you be not Judged. Only God has the right to Judge on the day we stand in front of Him. God did not appoint us to be judges. He does expect, want and desire that each of us try to live our very best daily. Pray for the President, but Pray that he be God led.



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Your Name

posted November 21, 2009 at 2:03 pm


I agree with anyone who admonishes prayer for harm to come to anyone. To call yourself a Christian and to pray for such a thing is worse then hypocrisy…it’s called “inciting violence” and “preaching” it. No matter if you believed in the Bush Administration or Obama’s, you don’t “pray” for someone to die so his or her children are left with only one parent and for the spouse to be a widow. What kind of insanity is that…or is this a “racial thing”? I can’t believe black people are behind such idiocy. Call it like it is. If they’re so proud to preach this sort of thing, let’s take a poll as to how many of “these” believers are white. Anyone?….anyone? No…because it’s fear…plain and simple. Or it’s both fear and security, or insecurity, of their “financial future”, etc. Look deep within and you shall hear what is right…if you keep your heart open.



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Herb

posted November 21, 2009 at 2:05 pm


That’s funny-but it’s actually a prophecy about Judas as the 12th apostle.



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Rick Garner

posted November 21, 2009 at 4:28 pm

Herb

posted November 21, 2009 at 4:34 pm


First of all-it’s just a joke! 2nd, if you have ever read Acts 1:20, you would know the passage is a prophecy about Judas Iscariot.



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Ray mondo

posted November 21, 2009 at 4:58 pm


Hate disguised as religion – what else is new?
Religion will eventually destroy the planet. Each claims to have the correct path to God and heaven, but as they spew hate at each other, their path is straight to Hell, as God watches in amazement how His creations screwed up so badly.
God is laughing at them!



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Your Name

posted November 21, 2009 at 5:21 pm


Actually God does laugh at people-he laughs at their destruction at the end if they have rejected his Son who he sent to save them. (Proverbs 1 Psalm 2 etc)



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graham

posted November 21, 2009 at 6:26 pm


You so-called christian always hiding behind christianity for racism or people who thinks different from you all…Just remember when you dig a ditch for one also dig one for yourself for sure you will fall into it…Stop using Christ for your hatred…you all are just like the others you hate Christ because God is the one who put people in authority and He is the one who will deal with His leaders not man…I guest you all really do not read your bibles…Whatever a man sow he shall reap…so if you are sowing death to come to Obama’s house remember what is coming to yours.



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Your Name

posted November 21, 2009 at 7:01 pm


Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6.



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Your Name

posted November 21, 2009 at 8:26 pm


Herb, if this is your idea of a joke, it isn’t very funny.



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j

posted November 21, 2009 at 11:26 pm


Before the press lays all the blame on the “right wing Christians” They might want to note that Psalm 109:8 is in the Old Testament and therefore written before Christ was born. So how can it be a Christian attack on Obama? The politically correct press certainly wouldn’t want to blame the Jews for this,now would they? Why is it that anyone who says anything against Obama is automatically labeled a racist or Right wing Christian? We are no longer allowed to speak our thoughts for fear of offending the”PC Police”. Seems alot like the start of Nazi Germany. It’s time to take back this country before all our rights that our forefathers fought for are gone. The “Commie-crats” need to go………NOW!



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James Gilmore

posted November 22, 2009 at 1:08 am


Before the press lays all the blame on the “right wing Christians” They might want to note that Psalm 109:8 is in the Old Testament and therefore written before Christ was born. So how can it be a Christian attack on Obama?
Because the people praying God’s curses on President Obama, and widowhood/fatherlessness on his family, by praying Psalm 109:8 are predominantly, if not entirely, Christian? Just a thought.
Why is it that anyone who says anything against Obama is automatically labeled a racist or Right wing Christian?
They aren’t. But when racists spew barely-coded race-based hatred of President Obama, or a few right-wing Christians pray for his death, we call them for what they are.
We are no longer allowed to speak our thoughts for fear of offending the”PC Police”.
Who’s stopping you from speaking your thoughts? I wasn’t aware of the incorporation of a new branch of Federal law enforcement called the PC Police.
Ohhhhhh, you mean that you experience intense social pressure and condemnation from other people when you express bigoted or hateful attitudes? Yeah, that’d be what we call “the system working just as it’s supposed to work.” You speak hate, they speak against your hate. Freedom of speech in action.
Seems alot like the start of Nazi Germany.
Care to elaborate on that point with, say, a reference to any credible scholar of twentieth-century German history and specific references to present-day events, with clear parallels drawn between them?
Were I less charitable, I might invoke Godwin’s Law here.
It’s time to take back this country before all our rights that our forefathers fought for are gone.
What rights would these be exactly?
The “Commie-crats” need to go………NOW!
Commie-crats? I thought you just compared us to Nazis. Given that the Nazis and the Communists were mortal enemies, I don’t think you’ve been thinking your metaphors all the way through. Not to mention that the platform of the Democratic Party – which is what I’m guessing you were referring to with your oh-so-creative wordplay – is completely unrelated to even the most moderate strains of Marxist thought as it exists today or as it has ever existed.



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bonncaruso

posted November 22, 2009 at 4:07 pm


Concerning 109:8, I have had experiences with evangelical and very, very right-wing baptists all my life and find most of them to be very upstanding people who work very diligently to know God. One of the things they themselves will tell you, after having heard it from the pulpit maybe about a gazillion times, is that you never take scripture out of context, meaning that 109:8 must be read in context of the entire psalm.
And here it becomes very clear that in wanting to pray this psalm for Obama, one is wishing for his death.
It saddens me to no end to see this segment of christianity stoop so low. This kind of stuff is really no different than what we see happening in the islamic world.ed
But far more saddening is to see that the recognized leadership of the evangelical movement and of the southern baptist convention have done absolutely nothing to condemn this. By their tacit behaviour, they are going a long way toward encouraging some whacked out young person to go get a gun and try to shoot the president of the USA.



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PapaRonn

posted November 22, 2009 at 6:53 pm


Amazing how the same people that backed Bush ,after stealing an election, starting two wars,and running our country into the ground for 8 years have the audacity to wish for the demise of a man who has only been in office for less than a year.Why are the repubs so mean-spirited ? Everything that Obama puts out is no,no,no. The law of averages says that the man will be right sooner or later.As for those wishing for the President’s demise ,be careful ,what you wish for it could happen to you!!! Remember GOD don’t like ugly…



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Ezra

posted November 22, 2009 at 7:58 pm


It was an interesting article. I never would have paid much attention to “psalms known as “imprecatory” prayers” and what to do with them. It got me to think. Christianity can be such an uplifting religion or used as a tool to spew dark hatreds.
When people profess to being Christians, I have no idea what their beliefs are.



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bebeblooz55

posted November 22, 2009 at 7:59 pm


Oh,Boy,
Again,so called religious people hiding behind some damn part of the Bible to spew hate as thinly vieled racism ta boot!
It makes me sick to consider these inbreds fellow christians.
ANY passage written that calls for someone’s family to be harmed should NEVER,EVER be used to voice displeasure with anyone-period.
This kind of black/white rage and putred thinking is why I can’t even take my grandchildren to church with me-their parents(now I see rightly so),are fearful they will hear this kind of c*** being passed off as being a good,holy and rightgeous person.
Damn you,all of you hate mongers who are no better than a Marxist,or Nazi,or liberal,or whatever it is you are afraid of!!!You will be heard,oneday,for I believe in a loving God who also will be asking us how we spent our time here on Earth-ALL of us,and spreading hate and misinformation,I believe won’t impress Him very much!



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Debbie Lackowitz

posted November 22, 2009 at 8:36 pm


Hey Diana, thanks for “explaining” what Psalm 109:8 is about. And yes, it is most unequivocally scary. And if you don’t think it is, you should. It’s one thing to put 1/20/09 on a bumper sticker, as an “end of an era”. It might “annoy”, but it does no harm. Psalm 109:8 on the other hand shows a festering hatred of one who has been “wronged”. How has anyone been wronged by Barack Obama? His being elected? That’s not being wronged, that’s democracy at work! You might not like it, but dear hearts, you DO have to live with it. I was no supporter of Bush. If I had pulled something like this, whew, I really don’t want to think what might have happened to me!
Oh, and Diana “intended as a joke”? No ma’am. I don’t agree. This was “deadly” serious. On the anniversary 46 years ago today of the assassination of John F. Kennedy, I find this not only distasteful but it brings back memories I’d much rather forget. Being 10 years old in Catholic School and being told that our President was dead. I vividly remember those days. The reports from Dallas, the pronouncement by Walter Cronkite that the President had died. The funeral, Mrs. Kennedy, John and Caroline (both young children). John “saluting” his Dad. Yup, I remember it all. And we repeated it too. With his brother Robert, and Martin Luther King, Jr. five years later. So my only comment left is that I refuse to repeat the horror again. That’s right. Refuse. I don’t care what your “problems” are about the Obama Presidency. You don’t “like” him, fine deal with it. I had to deal with Bush for eight years. You learn to live with it and work for something better. Were there times I thought I’d go nuts. Of course. But I didn’t call for “his days to be few; may another take his office”. Assassination is horrific. What’s scary is that there are really sick individuals that take this seriously. Please get help.



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Marie

posted November 23, 2009 at 12:13 am


Obama is not a Christian , thats why he declared our nation a none Christian nation. But He can’t stop the Christians from praying . He can’t stop our be leafs in GOD ! But using the bible and prayers in a harmful way upon anyone is wrong ! True Obama is doing nothing good for this country and the people. True he is Muslim , But thats his choice . When you pray its all to one God the same God. No matter what ( He ) God is called in different religions around the world. True the Muslim bible is taken in the wrong context and these people commit crimes and suicide and kill in be leaf that they will be rewarded , All wrong ! But to pray for the demise of any human being is wrong and prayer should never Ever be used that way. I don’t agree with anything Obama is doing. But why not pray the God intervene and turn Obama in the right direction for this country . That would be the good way to pray .



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Cat

posted November 23, 2009 at 12:54 am


As the haroah’s heart was hardened towards the Hebrews, so Obama’s heart is hardened toward America. He is out to destroy the very freedoms based on the teachings of God and Jesus. Let him reap what he sows.



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A108

posted November 23, 2009 at 8:38 am


OK, I already filed a complaint, but since the offensive comment is still up:
cuthean
November 22, 2009 2:23 PM
Take a look at that please, everybody and also file complaints.
I think beliefnet is going to have to either going to have to pay much more attention to the forums on these blogs or the racists and trolls are going to take over.
This is unacceptable.
Cat, are you serious?
I suppose the good thing about all these hate-driven people posting is that it does make clear to the religious conservatives who think we, on the left, are panicking over nothing, that, yes, there is a problem group.
No point saying: “But you on the left have your whack-jobs, too.” Yes, sadly, we do. But it is the ones on your side of the fence who are the danger to our president right at the moment – and it is your responsibility to try to quiet them down. Just as it was ours, during Bush#43 to work with our idiots.
Not that ours were praying for Bush’s death. Really – we all knew Cheney would be 100X worse, so our prayers were genuine and heartfelt.



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James Gilmore

posted November 23, 2009 at 9:26 am


He is out to destroy the very freedoms based on the teachings of God and Jesus. Let him reap what he sows.
In order to support your point – which is a requirement for actual intelligent dialogue rather than mindless ranting – please present the following pieces of evidence:
(1) An enumerated list of freedoms President Obama is “out to destroy,” with evidence – preferably quotations from President Obama himself, though I suppose any official statement of policy from the administration will do – that he is “out to destroy” them. Please keep in mind that in order to demonstrate that President Obama is “out to destroy” these freedoms, you’ll have to establish that they existed in the first place. Thus, you’ll also need to demonstrate that these “freedoms” are actual rights – as enumerated in either the U.S. Bill of Rights or the U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
(2) Evidence that the notion of universal human rights, and more specifically the rights you see President Obama as “out to destroy” in section (1), are descended not only from Christian teaching (which would be difficult enough to demonstrate given the decidedly deist bent of the Enlightenment-era intellectualism that led to notions like universal human rights) but, as you claim, from “the teachings of God and Jesus.” Thus, you’re going to have to demonstrate a clear intellectual lineage from Christian teaching to the framers of the Constitution and the assemblers of the 1948 Declaration – including, of course, demonstrating that the thoughts of the framers of the Constitution and the assemblers of the 1948 Declaration were heavily influenced, if not dominated, by the Christian theological tradition.
Let’s see it. Intellectual honesty and the ideals of rational dialogue demand that you present this evidence for your claim or retract it.



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totalvictory

posted November 23, 2009 at 11:32 am


Just want to share the other version of Psalms 109 that is being prayred for our Presidents good and is circulating on email.
1 O God, whom I praise, do not remain silent,
2 for wicked and deceitful men have opened their mouths against our President; they have spoken against him with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround him; they attack him without cause.
4 In return for his friendship they accuse him, but he is a man of prayer.
5 They repay him evil for good, and hatred for his friendship.
For you have Appointed President Obama a good man and appointed Christian Believers to oppose his enemies through prayer.
Place your Angels Lord at his right hand. to catch him when he stumbles so that he want fall
Cause him never to be tried, therefore man can not find him guilty,
and may his prayers uplift him because you are his guiding light
8 May his days be long;and our next president be even more ethical and grounded in you as he is
9 May his children never be fatherless or his wife a widow. For he shall not die spiritually or physically prematurely.
10 May his children never be wandering beggars; may their homes never be ruined and no one will ever drive them away.
11 May a creditor continue to increase all he has; may strangers nor friends, family or associated never plunder the fruits of his labor.
12 May all extend kindness to him and his children receive your favor and favor with man all the days of their life.
13 May his descendants never be cut off, nor their names blotted out from the next generation.
14 May you LORD correct his iniquity and not allow them to have dominion over him. For his mother has past away and her sins are in the sea of forgetfulness
15 May he always humble himself before you repenting and asking you to forgive his sins and that you will cut off the memory of his sins from the earth and heaven as you promised.
16 For his thought are kindness, and he aims for relieve to the poor, the needy and the brokenhearted.
17 He loves to pronounce your blessing may they come on him; he finds pleasure in blessing— may it be with him always.
18 He wears blessings as his garment; it enters into his body like water, into his bones like oil.
19 May it be like a cloak wrapped about him, like a belt tied forever around him.
20 May this be the LORD’s payment to your servant, the one who speak good of YOU.
21 But you, O Sovereign LORD, continue to deal well with him for your name’s sake; out of the goodness of your love, deliver him.
22 For you have made him needy for YOU, and his heart needing YOUR love and reassurance.
23 He fades away resting in the shadow of the Almighty He is shaking off the locust and you are restoring all that was taken 7 times greater.
24 He will remember to fasting and his knees will not give way or his body go thin and gaunt; for you are his sustainer
25 Yes he is an object of scorn to his accusers; when they see him, they shake their heads. You deal with them who falsely accuse and who are touching your anointed.
26 Help him, O LORD my God; save him in accordance with your love.
27 Let them know that it is your hand, that you, O LORD, have done it.
28 They may curse, but you will bless; when they attack they will be put to shame, but your servant will rejoice.
29 His accusers will be clothed with disgrace and wrapped in shame as in a cloak.
30 With his mouth he will greatly extol the LORD; in the great throng he will praise him.
31 For he stands at your right hand as a needy one, so save his life from those who condemn him.



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Souris

posted November 23, 2009 at 12:42 pm


The commenters here have some really weird beliefs about Obama.



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Carol

posted November 23, 2009 at 1:51 pm


One who rules over people justly,
ruling in the fear of God,
is like the light of morning,
like the sun rising on a cloudless morning,
gleaming from the rain on the grassy land.
Is not my house like this with God?
For he has made with me an everlasting covenant,
ordered in all things and secure.
from 2 Samuel:23



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A108

posted November 23, 2009 at 1:59 pm


I see the comment from cuthean is still up!
I know this website belongs to the parent corporation from Fox and, having read crunchycon, I know racism is tolerated here…but come one folks…what on earth are we doing, claiming to be Christian when that sort of hatred is tolerated here?



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mary anne

posted November 25, 2009 at 3:35 am


Whatever happened to separation of church and state? Have we totally abandoned this concept?



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A108

posted November 25, 2009 at 11:21 am


mary anne,
I think the problem with many far-right Christians is that they sincerely believe that the Bill of Rights does not impose separation of church and state, rather it mandates they be one and the same.
How they reach this conclusion is beyond me – as a Christian, I have always thought Christ’s statement that his kingdom was not of this world was clear on the matter.
What I suspect is the case is that they assume that religious freedom means they are free to impose their version of Christianity upon everyone else.
It never seems to occur to them that “their” version of Christianity might very well not be the version imposed…
And that, I think, is the true value of this Amendment – we are all free to chose or let any religion. This mandates that no religion may be declared the state religion.
But what do I know? I’m basing my conclusions on John 18:36. They base their beliefs on…hmm…most of them argue the founders of the Republic were fundamentalist, conservative Christians!



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Richard Clark

posted November 26, 2009 at 8:18 am


Face it, the misnamed Evangelical WHITE Christians (aka Religious Righters), are never going to like a political candidate like Obama who remotely favors the real teachings of Jesus. They will favor a candidate who espouses Constantinian Christianity. As a Caucasion myself and a Christian (Presbyterian) it is depressing to see my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ align themselves with militarism, corporate power, nativism, and subtle bigotry.



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A108

posted November 27, 2009 at 3:19 am


Richard Clark,
I fear you are right.
Many (too many) decades ago, I asked my professor for ethnology how long it took for a social justice change to take effect in a society.
She expanded upon my question to include how long it took for a falsely held, but widely believed negative stereotype to become anchored in a society.
My research back then as young graduate student suggested it takes four generations to move past legal discrimination to casual acceptance and two incidents to move from disliked but ignored to despised.
I have no idea what current thinking on the matter is, would, however, be very much surprised if there had been a radical shift in perspective.
Should this general principle hold true in our current culture wars, then we are still a generation away from seeing the end of anti-Black sentiment being widely accepted, three generations away from seeing women as inferior beings to men and four from the time when gays are treated in accordance with what medicine and science have taught us.
The role of Christianity in my view is to bridge these gaps by teaching us to extend the same mercy to others which God extended to us through Christ, his son.
Obviously, I come from the progressive, liberal side of Christianity here. It seems the driving position of the right leaning, conservative side of Christianity is: My personal Jesus forgave me, so I can be as nasty to you as I like ’cause, one, I’m going to heaven regardless of what I do and, two, since you don’t believe exactly the way I want you to, you can’t really be saved. Thus, you have personally insulted my very own property, my personal Jesus and I can treat you as badly as I like.



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daniel

posted November 28, 2009 at 9:53 pm


This psalm is so difficult because it is a prophesy of the anti-christ taking charge over those affected by the [TARES] that a leader is brought over.However I prefer to retranslate the first 14 verses to make the whole thing about our country.I’ll give you one verse 109v9 et his nation be fatherless,and women a desolate palace. The desolate palace is the Whitehouse. So we have Obamanation of desolation.



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Tammy

posted November 30, 2009 at 9:02 am


Where do you people come from? The separation of church and state don’t mean you can’t pray for the president, in fact the separation of church and state was for protecting the CHURCH from the Government not the other way around. Like it or not you live in a country that was FOUNDED and BASED in the Christian Religion. If you don’t like it move.
You people didn’t respect Bush so don’t expect me to respect the shyster you voted for.
11-6-2012 The end of an error



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James Gilmore

posted November 30, 2009 at 10:14 am


The separation of church and state don’t mean you can’t pray for the president
I don’t think anyone’s suggesting it does mean that. What we are saying is that praying for the President’s death is incredibly un-Christian.
in fact the separation of church and state was for protecting the CHURCH from the Government not the other way around.
Why can’t we just allow that the separation of church and state both protects the church from government interference and protects the government from becoming a theocracy?
Like it or not you live in a country that was FOUNDED and BASED in the Christian Religion.
Please demonstrate this with references to respected historians who are actually taken seriously by other people in the field (i.e., no David Barton or other Christian Right pseudohistories).
If you don’t like it move.
It’s my country too.
You people didn’t respect Bush so don’t expect me to respect the shyster you voted for.
Please find me one reference to a movement of people praying for George W. Bush’s death while in office. Just one.
11-6-2012 The end of an error
ummm… even in the unlikely event that President Obama is defeated in the 2012 election, his first term as President doesn’t end until January 20, 2013.



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A108

posted December 3, 2009 at 2:50 pm


Reading the hateful comments from the Far-Right Christians here, it is becoming increasingly obvious that the secret-service had better be doing their job.
You folks frighten me.
Love it or leave it? Are you serious? The whole principle of America is that you don’t have to be a fundamentalist Christian or a Republican to live here.
Grow up, accept that we won and the sky still didn’t fall.
I hope and, frankly, pray, that the government is reading this forum and is making note of those of you advocating secession and sedition. Or yet worse.



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hippibobbi

posted December 6, 2009 at 11:41 am


fantastic article == thoughtful & well-written. thanks SO much, diana!
p.s. BelifefNet ROCKS!!!



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Your Name

posted December 7, 2009 at 11:42 am


Mr. James Gillmore, I could not have said it better myself! Thanks for representing so well.
President Obama has a lot on his shoulders and I and my family pray for him daily. As a Christian, I should pray for my president. Even if that meant G. W. Bush for 8 years.
If it wasn’t so terribly sad, it’d be laughable to hear the many professed Christians talking about President Obama and their feelings towards him. HE IS THE 44TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES and their is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. He won! Get over it! We did.
In the meantime while you are waiting for the next election, try brushing up on the Bible, learn the WORD and take a few history classes and brush up on your history. (You may also wanna recommend those history classes and maybe a geography course to your next nominee!)
GOD Bless!



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Borat

posted December 7, 2009 at 1:52 pm


Great article.
James said most of what I scrolled down to say to Tammy, but to squash her delusion of America being a Christian nation or being founded on Christianity, I suggest you click the link I’ve provided (I think it can be accessed by clicking on my name).
It’s a link to the Treaty of Tripoli, which was unequivocal in stating that we are not a Christian nation and America was not founded on Christianity. Here, I’ll go ahead and paste Article 11 for you:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Just FYI, John Adams approved of and signed that. You know, one of our founding fathers?
Wrote the ballsy preamble to the Declaration of Independence to the king of Britain, as well as strongly influenced good ol’ TJ, who wrote the rest of it?
2nd President of USA?
Served as the first VP under George Washington?
Ringing any bells?
The Treaty of Tripoli was signed by him just 20 years after the Declaration of Independence, and guess what: Nobody cared, because the people at the time, including our forefathers, unlike now, were under no delusions that this is a Christian nation.



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Immanuel Comer

posted December 8, 2009 at 6:13 pm


In response to “Like it or not you live in a country that was FOUNDED and BASED in the Christian Religion.
Please demonstrate this with references to respected historians who are actually taken seriously by other people in the field (i.e., no David Barton or other Christian Right pseudohistories).”
… please consider the opening lines of the Declaration of independence below: You may not be able to in and of itself determine that the writers were of necessity referring to the Christian religion/belief. However, it is easy to see that the writers did NOT intentionally try to separate a God and a creator from the purpose of declaring independence. We live in a country of people NOT of one religion, belief, or faith. However, I think we can respectfully agree that those that signed this important document recognized an agreement in one God, one Creator, and (later in the document) the Divine.
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.



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Juan Jose

posted December 13, 2009 at 10:37 am


Obama has evil plans for our nation. He must be stopped in any legal and ethical way.



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John Campbell

posted December 16, 2009 at 1:51 am


I’ve read this story and found that other media outlets, typically supportive of the political left, have pounced on this, but instead focus on the verse not stated in the T-shirts/Bumper stickers. I can easily see the political speak with Psalm 109:8, but the focus on Psalm 109:9 is being foisted upon us as if it where Psalm 109:8. As for Psalm 109:8, I agree with the single verse sentiment. On it’s own it has no reference to any desire to see President Obama killed. However, if one is going to take it in it’s actual context you have to read the before and after verses. A practice often intentionally rejected by the political left when it suits them.
Using Psalm 109:8 was without a doubt not a good choice due to not only the verses that follow, but also it exemplifies the evil that can envelope mans heart when they have been harmed. I remember many years ago I actually prayed for defense against developing such hatred towards another for an injustice done to me. In a healthy mind it would seem that it takes a great deal of harm to let ones guard down and allow such hatred to enter. It is without a doubt something that can and does happen. President Obama has certainly harmed many, but in no way has his actions justified such a wrath as asked for by David. God has in fact made such generational wrath’s on his own accord, but the new covenant/testament superseded that to the best of my knowledge. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.



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Your Name

posted January 11, 2010 at 4:20 pm


This is a hoax from day one. I keep getting emails about this. It is easy to see that cafe-press corp. printed this up to capitalize on the anti-healthcare/tea party folks they thought would buy this crap. Fact is, just about any one wanting to make the religious right look malicious and dangerous to cast aspersions on them could produce this kind of drivle and pin it on “them”. Just like the tea party coverage always seemed to hone in on the one or two Hitler-Obama signs and paint the whole crowd as racists- those people were plants by the SEIU. Since anyone could join in the activites, anyone could show up with derogatory signs and be assured of getting on CNN or MSNBC. That was too convenient folks don’t you think?? Do you know anyone who has ever seen these items on anyones car or body? Probably sent to USA Today as a “press release” from Cafe-Press and they in turn have never said who made the T-shirts or if they made them for an organization who paid them to sell them or what. It’s all about denigrating Christians, Republicans, and Tea Party folks none of whom would ever endorse such crap.



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ExGeeEye

posted February 1, 2010 at 9:44 pm


Personally, I don’t want to hear word one about the alleged inappropriateness of Psalm 109:8 — OR — Psalm 109:9, for that matter — unless it is prefaced by a heartfelt, convincing condemnation of the signage found here: http://www.binscorner.com/pages/d/death-threats-against-bush-at-protests-i.html



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True American Patriot

posted April 23, 2010 at 5:03 pm


Why can’t we hope that he be removed? He is the worst of all worlds… To put it in terms of how bad he is, only Hitler was worse because he murdered people. Maybe that will enter into Obama’s communist, facist, seditionist, treasonist agenda some day!
Remember, he can never be “natural born” and therefore he is not legally qualified to be President! (Law of Nations, Book 1, section 212 – 215) He must be BORN IN THE COUNTRY to BOTH PARENTS who MUST BE CITIZENS!
By his own admission in his book (since Obama Sr. was a Kenyan citizen) Obama is ILLEGAL!!!!
Therefore I say Psalms 109:8!!!!!!!



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Alex

posted April 26, 2010 at 6:30 pm


I think most folks neither know nor care what the next verse is nor what the book contains. They merely wish a closure to an unpopular administration. They wish nobody harm and certainly not the President.
For crying out loud! Lighten up! It’s a JOKE (though a good example of truth in humor, many wish the president would go away and many more hope this will be his only term).
Surly there are more important matters to take up that this?



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Emilia

posted May 10, 2010 at 7:05 pm


I recall the horrible comments about President Bush. Some wished him dead, publicly. There was even a movie where President Bush was killed! I bet you think it was all funny, didn’t you?!



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acai berry cleanse 14 day side effects

posted May 10, 2010 at 8:37 pm


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Gloria

posted May 18, 2010 at 4:07 pm


This Old Testament scripture verse is acknowledged in the New Testament of the Bible as a prophecy about Judas. See Acts 1:16 and following verses …. “His office let another man take.” May the USA rise from the dead to an even more glorious life as did the Jesus whom Judas betrayed.



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Akano

posted May 24, 2010 at 12:56 am


Obama the worst President ever (safe for Hitler) the world has ever know?! Seriously? Really? In just a year in office? By ensuring that over 30 million Americans have access to healthcare, propping congress to pass laws to rwgulate Wall Street, passing laws to regulate credit card companies & others to ensure that the likes of Bernie Maddof never again swindles people; ensuring that American economy is bouncing back on the path to full recovery etc.. Are these the things that make him the worst president ever?!
Someone (like several others) even claimed he is NOT natural born. Who among you is natural born- apart from native Americans whom you have condemned to gambling and drinking? How many of you did NOT have parents who emigrated from other countries?
The worst set of Americans are these so-called ‘holier-than-thou’ nose-pointed self-righteous people who think less of other folks. These are people who will preach of the love of Christ to the poor folks in Africa and Asia but will at the same time treat such people with disdain. By wishing the president dead and his house destroyed, have you guys forgotten the summary Christ gave of the 10 commandments? …love thy neighbour as thyself…
You guys need be mindful of what your wishes are and what you wish and do unto others as well. It is estimated that ‘whites’ will lose their majority by 2040 or thereabout and since democracy is a game of numbers, be getting ready to be served in the same plate you are serving so-called minorities now.
Christians are charged to pray for the good of the land and all the people, not the reverse…………..



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Karen

posted May 25, 2010 at 3:16 am


I believe that 1 Timothy 2:1-3 trumps such a vindictive, self-righteous prayer – at least, it does for those who truly care about pleasing God:
“I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for EVERYONE— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior.”
…which is to say:
“I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for President Obama, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior.”
The bottom line is that Jesus suffered and died on the cross for Barack Obama (and anyone else whom you consider your “enemy”) JUST AS MUCH as He suffered and died for you & me. If, as Jesus tells us in John 3:17, God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world (including Barack Obama), but to save the world (AND Barack Obama) through Him”, then praying for Obama’s condemnation or destruction (or anyone else’s, for that matter) is actually praying AGAINST the will of God!
Moreover, Jesus instructs His followers in Matthew 5: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” So if you consider Obama to be your enemy, then the verse would read: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate Barack Obama.’ But I tell you: Love Barack Obama and pray for him, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.”
God’s commands are clear, but it is our choice as to whether or not we will obey Him.



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Titan

posted May 27, 2010 at 9:16 pm


Akano…
Are you just plain stupid or do you really think that the things Obama has done are for the betterment of the American people. I remember when he was running for office he was asked: “Senator, what do you think is the problem with the US economy?” Do you recall what that empty suit of clothes said: “The problem is that the US is a capitalistic based economy.” That answer totally betrayed what this socialistic clown has as his agenda. Guess what the morons in the media did…they gave this idiot a total pass because he supposedly is 8% black and we can’t offend the racists in the US. He is a socialistic idiot who never ran so much as a lemonade stand and is totally unqualified to be an executive in any business much less the President of the United States.



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vince rogers

posted July 18, 2010 at 9:08 pm


Titan, would you do me the courtesy of providing a transcript of Obama’s answer to the question you posted above. In context would be nice, if you don’t mind, but I will take what I can get.



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Alex

posted July 21, 2010 at 6:59 pm


Another reason not to use this message is that “Nobama” “Obamanation” are shorter.



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King of gambling online

posted July 26, 2010 at 10:01 am


I think it is a bit narrow minded to say that Barack Obama is the worst there has ever been. True the man is a Muslim, but that doesn’t automatically turn him into the devil.
There are many good things that the man has done, and based on religion I understand why some Christians might be sceptical.
I myself am a Christian and believe that there is no way you can just judge a person purely on their religion.
As scripture tells us, we don’t have the right to judge. God is the only one who can judge. We are only humans.



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Kathrn

posted August 8, 2010 at 12:26 pm


I voted for Obama
Love the guy
palin one heartbeat from the presidency – heck no!!!!!
my gosh -so many hate the govt regardless of who it is
Bad karma on these people and this bible verse
But leave it religious people to put a verse way way out on context and omit parts
To come up with their version of it lol



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John Dunigan

posted August 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm


Oh Please people…. get a life. That Scripture was intended as humor and nothing more. Come on now, grow up. It is funny. I didn’t like all the George Bush jokes, but I laughed at some of them because they were funny.



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Tracy Footeman

posted August 17, 2010 at 1:49 pm


You gotta creepy since of humor, John. Maybe you’d see things differently if the joke were on…”you”, and they put your name on a t-shirt with a hateful gesture prayed towards you.
The old saying goes, “Hint of Truth to every Joke”.
None the less…, constructively I criticize that the religious Psalms is hateful and intense, and when veered towards any human or animal, comes off as cruel and inhumane.
I’m sure John, there are one or two jokes you didn’t find funny. And fair enough, they probably weren’t.
But, we all need to look at ourselves… right John?
When we go too far…we leave our humanity behind.



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Curt

posted August 18, 2010 at 12:25 pm


Yes, it was meant to be funny, and yes tracy, there was a hint of truth to it. Particularly the part about “may his days be few and may another take his office’. The sooner he moves back to community planning, the sooner he will be negatively affecting one community and not a whole country



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Your NameBrue

posted August 18, 2010 at 8:27 pm


Heck…This is a great verse…
If God is displeased with Obama may He strike him dead tonight!



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Frédérik

posted August 22, 2010 at 5:58 am


Yes Kathryn we hate the gov’t no matter who WHEN the government takes power from the people and tells them what it’s gonna do. Our country and it’s laws were founded on government ONLY being there to protect our pursuit life liberty and property. Not to plunder from one set of persons and give it to persons to whom it does not belong. Those who steward God’s blessings well, get more, those who do not get stripped of them. When you see a widow or orphan help them, but out of a right spirit, not with big brother forcing you. I do pray for our president, that he gets so whacked by the Holy Ghost hes changes his mind on everything! If not… Psalm 109:8! “Karma my ass”



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personal loan

posted August 22, 2010 at 2:12 pm


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Bad Credit Card

posted August 22, 2010 at 3:39 pm


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playstation

posted August 23, 2010 at 7:37 am


Love Games-Tell You How to Avoid Getting Hurt by Them



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Jo Ann

posted August 27, 2010 at 11:31 am


Well, the only thing I have to say is this: For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him should not parrish, but have everlasting life. Thank God for His Son JESUS CHRIST! People who spew God’s messages for hatred do not speak for God! Jesus is the redeemer – not man. Get over yourselves.



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Mr. Payday Easy Loans Inc.

posted September 8, 2010 at 4:08 am


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George Langston Cook

posted September 13, 2010 at 1:05 pm


I am curious about the sentiment of the Psalm as directed toward President Obama. As a Black American catholic male that has lived through the latter parts of social and segregation and has had to face discriminatory practices due to my race, sex, age, and religion, I just cannot see the injustice this sentiment is supposed to address in what the president has done. Is this a return to the intolerance of racist ideology clothed in Christian beliefs. If I do not believe in any elected person’s policy, I simply vote against him rather than vomit words of hate toward he and his family



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L.H.

posted September 14, 2010 at 3:37 pm


A lot of hate spewed here on both sides of the spectrum. Fear God. Fear the One who can throw your souls in hell. God is the God of Love but many many people overlook the scriptures that tell us to FEAR Him. He is the God of salvation however, He is also the God of VENGEANCE. Vengeance is MINE sayeth the LORD. He put Obama in office for a reason. That reason is clearly so he could be used to bring about the conditions that lead to the end. Pray for Obama’s salvation and for God to turn his heart towards home and spare humanity for a few more years. Wake up people, we are approaching God’s judgement faster than a snowball rolling downhill.
2 Chronicles 7:14 (New International Version)
14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.



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P Thompson

posted September 23, 2010 at 3:46 pm


I stand amazed at the spiritual imaturity of some people. First of all, why would someone hate so deeply that they would venture to use the scriptures to draw other weak minded/hearted people to their low, evil-infected opinions, while trying to whip those who are obviously, so unlike themselves, into the same demented social-line of behavior as they. Secondly, apparently they are unaware that the overall message within the Bible is a reflection of God’s character–LOVE. This lashing out at Obama is the opposite of that love. God shows us who we are and our wretchedness within. He’s trying to save us in love, but on His terms. Also, the same scriptures that are being loosely misapplied are the same scriptures that serve as a mirror to reflect our shallow, diseased spiritual state. We are so not like God when we hate on any level. Just think, all of that hatred-energy could be turned into loving, caring efforts to do good in our homes, community, and government, instead of destroying ourselves physically with poisonous adrenalin brought about by the effects of hate. Hating only distances one from God and each other…we better wake up, straighten up and do whats right! Are we really aware that it is God who sets up governments and takes them down? If they want to read scripture, read Daniel 2:21; 4:17,25,32. Lastly, has it ever occurred to any of us that it was God’s love for all of us that placed Obama where he could best impact a nation who is responsible for perpetrating a national sin, which has been a source of deep rooted hurt, pain, and embarrassment to all for generations, expressly African Americans — yes, you got it, the ‘S’ word…slavery! If we are honest with ourselves, we could see clearly that the ONE thing that could generate and stir up the hearts of those who are still infected by the disease of racism, is to see this symbol of this national sin up close and personal. Yep, the Black man! And not just a Black man, but one who was prepared from an early age to take his rightful place in society BY A MOTHER WHO OBVIOUSLY SAW THE VALUE IN HUMAN SOULS; he’s intelligent (a reminder of the foiled plans to keep blacks from reading inspite of education codes DESIGNED to fail black males in schools across the nation–even today); one who is a Christian (another revelation of those who tried to keep blacks from reading the Bible where the truth about love and free souls of men is revealed);and last, but certainly not least, POWER! DON’T WE SEE? In order for (mainly) practicing White racists can be forgiven for this sin, they must first see that it– RACISM is sin — on every level. They can’t know that they harbor these sins unless this deep sore is agitated to their awareness. Their sore is a Black, intelligent man in power. The leading power of the world–the President of these United States, where the critics live! Every time they look at Obama, he reminds them of the hate that God is trying to eradicate from their souls. God surely does love us all to for so long, contend with our foolishness and pseudo justice disguised under white hoods in days gone by, but in fine suits today. Blacks can not escape this truth either. They must also see that they must ‘forgive our debtors’…All must be forced to deal with personal shortcomings and sinfulness. Blacks must practice the ministry of reconciliation. To whom much is given, much is required. Blacks, though painful, must take the high road on this one. They MUST reach out to Whites who need the compassion. But first, ALL have to recognize racism for what it is–sin. I’m sure others have a nicer sounding name for it, but it is what it is! Instead of just reading Psalms 109:8 — let’s go from Genesis to Revelation…we have a much better chance to be saved from the ugly world that we ourselves have created. Let’s pray for ourselves and our President who God has sent us to lead us through these times. Let’s face it…our arms are too short to box with God! Life after Psalm 109 is no joke at all. Anyway,no matter how many bumper stickers they distribute, Obama is President until God says differently. Get over it. They must surrender for their soul’s sake!



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js

posted April 14, 2011 at 10:44 am


Individuals who came up with this verse in use against the President are members of an old, well-known group. It’s called THE KLAN.



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My Name

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@ Jade Roberts:

Thank goodness someone offed Dr. Tiller. That made my day. :-)

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@ js:

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AMBROSE

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Frinds,

I am excited of your own opinion regard psalm 109. I want to appreciate the comment of C.S.Lewis“Of all bad men,
religious bad men are the worst.” I do not find any justification to relate obama with psl 109:8

But to me psalm 109 is great and God answerd my prayer by meditating it. There is enemies without reason. Psalm 109 talking about it. It provide great answer to the oppressed as well as for the people who pay back evil for good and hatred for love.



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posted August 27, 2011 at 5:35 pm


That’s what happens to a nobama, who is so corrupt and crooked and leads this Nation astray, who in fact has only worsened the economy and the financial system of the American Republic. Such immoral liars and deceivers and forgerers are met with ruin in the end.



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posted December 23, 2011 at 12:14 pm


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posted June 11, 2012 at 5:34 pm


The libs are just mad that did not find this when Bush was in office (you know they would have loved to use it). But they don’t read the Bible very much, so its not surprising. And it stings, so they have to try to attribute more meaning to it than was ever intended. And even if you do pray he is removed from office, it doesn’t mean you pray the entire Psalm.



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Memorizing Revelation

posted July 4, 2012 at 3:48 pm


It’s a pretty bad example of a reprobate nation when bumper stickers have more wisdom on them then most so called Christians are spewing out on this comment section. We ought to pray for that wicked mass murderer known as Obama to be saved, but we should also tack Psalm 109 onto that prayer. God WILL judge Obama for his support of abortion (murder) and his murdering, war mongering ways and all his affronts to liberty. By praying Psalm 109 for Obama we are merely praying in the will of God. What we see here on this board is the great falling away spoken of. Christians simple don’t know their bibles anymore.



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tOM

posted August 29, 2012 at 11:48 am


ACTUALLY, I AM A DEMOCRAT, and I hope all the verses come true.

Obama is a HORRIBLE president and definitely NOT worthy of ANY praise.



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Tom

posted August 29, 2012 at 11:53 am


Progressive revival??????????????

The word PROGRESSIVE is synonymous with LEFTIST LIBERALS, such as Obama, the Black Panthers, and Jesse Jackson.

PROGRESSIVES ARE ENEMIES OF GOD because they believe in abortion and socialism.

I cannot believe that word is even on a religious board/web site.

Now I know why my friends tell me to stay away from BeliefNet – IT IS LEFT-LEANING AND PROGRESSIVELY LIBERAL.

We all know what happens to EVIL PEOPLE.
God will NOT be mocked.
If you are NOT born-again thru the blood of Jesus Christ, then you will never enter Heaven.

Obama is not born-again. DO NOT FOLLOW OR SUPPORT HIM.



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Richard Brodie

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Here’s an anagram of Psalms 109:8
(41 letters)

Let his days be few; and let another
take his office.
=
Fans left. Threat is: lose White abode. Chief yanked!

41 reversed is 14, which is the number of letters inthe phrase “The God of Israel”.
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Psalms 109:8 comes out to be:

“Shear! Got foiled!” – in other words,

“His days were cut short, and his plans to remain in office were frustrated.”

You may follow the link provided if you would like to obtain a copy of my 539 page bible anagrams book

THE GOD OF ISRAEL



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Keeper of Truth

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A prayer for ourselves not. It is exactly as the chapter states and it is what good me want for this low life Muslim liar.



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More blogs to enjoy!!!
Thank you for visiting Progressive Revival. This blog is no longer being updated. Please enjoy the archives. Here are some other blogs you may also enjoy: Faith, Media and Culture Prayer, Plain and Simple Happy Blogging!!!  

posted 2:50:10pm Aug. 27, 2012 | read full post »

Why Jews Around the World are Praying for the Victory of the Egyptian Uprising
Originally appeared on Tikkun Daily BlogEver since the victory over the dictator of Tunisia and the subsequent uprising in Egypt, my email has been flooded with messages from Jews around the world hoping and praying for the victory of the Egyptian people over their cruel Mubarak regime.&nb

posted 1:48:39pm Feb. 01, 2011 | read full post »

When Generosity, Love, and Kindness are Public Policy, the Violence We Saw in Arizona will Dramatically Diminish
The attempted assassination of Congresswoman Giffords and the murder of so many others in Arizona has elicited a number of policy suggestions, from gun control to private protection for elected officials, to banning incitement to violence on websites either directly or more subtly (e.g., Sarah Palin

posted 2:44:04pm Jan. 19, 2011 | read full post »

The Spiritual Messages of Chanukah and Christmas -- and Their Downsides
Christmas and Chanukah share a spiritual message: that it is possible to bring light and hope in a world of darkness, oppression and despair. But whereas Christmas focuses on the birth of a single individual whose life and mission was itself supposed to bring liberation, Chanukah is about a national

posted 12:59:53pm Dec. 02, 2010 | read full post »

Obama (and Biden) Have No Clue About What's Bothering Their Political Base
Shortly before the California Democratic primary in 2008, the San Fransisco Chronicle invited me to write a short article explaining why I, chair of the interfaithNetwork of Spiritual Progressives, was supporting Barack Obama. Like most other progressive activists, I understood that a pres

posted 1:44:11pm Sep. 30, 2010 | read full post »




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