Progressive Revival

Progressive Revival


Was Tiller’s Murder Justice?

posted by Eric Sapp

(cross posted from Faithfuldemocrats.com)

            Last week, I had the honor of sitting next to a group of Gold Star Moms during the National Memorial Day concert.  We talked about their sons and exchanged some tearful hugs during the extremely moving concert.   The next day, the militant pro-life group, Operation Rescue, sent a mass email to its members entitled “Tiller Abortion Worker Honored At White House By Obama.”  The email condemned President Obama for inviting to the White House a woman who volunteered in George Tiller’s clinic as “yet another connection between Obama and late-term abortionist George Tiller.”  The woman in question was a Gold Star Mom, and she was invited to the White House on Memorial Day (along with all the other Gold Star mothers I’d sat with at the concert) for no other reason than to commemorate their sons and daughters who were killed in action. 

The rhetoric from the far right often saddens me but seldom generates a real emotional reaction, but I was furious when I read Operation Rescue’s email.   At first, I couldn’t decide whether I was more upset that Operation Rescue was trying to score cheap political points off of the death of this woman’s son, or that they were so intent on proving their point about the threat of Obama’s pro-choice administration that they felt completely justified in twisting the facts and ignoring the truth.   But following Tiller’s murder by a man who regularly posted on Operation Rescue message boards, I have decided that while using a U.S. soldier’s death to try to score political points is more deplorable, the complete disregard for the truth in a pursuit of justice is more dangerous. 

Obama didn’t “honor a Tiller abortion worker,” and the Gold Star Mom event in no way demonstrated another connection between Obama and Tiller.  When Christians decide lies are the best way to inspire the “faithful” to fight for justice, and when Christians demonstrate through our actions that we believe that any means are justified as long as the end is just, we are lost.  The annoying thing about morality and ethics is that sometimes they make it difficult for us to get what we want immediately…and they may even make us reexamine our motives and priorities. 

As our society becomes increasingly governed by the sound bite and as we divide into ideologically homogenous groups to get our news, discuss our faith, and engage in our politics, we see more and more examples of Americans deciding morality and truth are luxuries we cannot afford in our righteous quest for justice.  We break 200 years of tradition and torture prisoners because we face threats so dire that laws of man and God no longer apply.  And lest the left get too self-righteous, there is little difference between Operation Rescue hosting chat rooms where protestors are encouraged to target Tiller’s church and opponents of Prop 8 posting the names and home addresses of donors to the gay marriage ban.

As our specific causes become increasingly important in our own eyes, as the perceived threats to them become increasingly immediate and dire, and as our opponents are increasingly turned into demonized caricatures void of feeling or humanity, “justice” becomes just another word for “revenge” and we teeter on the verge of becoming Dostoevsky’s Grand Inquisitor who kills Christ to save the Church…because Christ’s message of meekness and mercy is not what the times call for.   

  And so while Operation Rescue may not have pulled the trigger, they created a culture that justified their web team’s decision that in the times we live in they did not need to follow Christ’s command to be truthful in all things or to comfort the suffering since such commands would have hobbled their righteous and just purpose…and tragically, it was just a small step for someone who was constantly bombarded by their alarmist rhetoric to decide that Christ wanted him to murder another of God’s children.  

Every time we demonize another, stand as righteous judge over our brother, and seek justice devoid of grace or mercy, there are consequences.  And when we decide that we will fight God’s battles with the devil’s weapons of lies and force, we should not be surprised when we create monsters. 

 



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hootie1fan

posted June 2, 2009 at 12:32 pm


It would have been nice if these people had protested the deaths of innocent Iraqi children and pregnant women as valiantly



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Rita Brock

posted June 2, 2009 at 4:40 pm


I agree using lies and demonization escalates a climate of violence and eggs it on. I also think we can deceive ourselves into bargaining away our clear moral principles. In an effort to calm down polarizations around abortion, some supporters of legal and safe abortion have used language to suggest abortion is harmful or to be regretted–or that we want to reduce abortions without any qualification about how such reductions would happen. Denying women access to safe and legal abortion may reduce the number, but at what cost?
First and foremost, abortion is a life-saving medical procedure, and since Roe v Wade, it has saved millions of women’s lives. Before the days of safe and legal abortion services, many women died at the hands of backroom and alley butchers or even by their own attempts to save themselves from pregnancies they could not carry to term. Women used to die much more often because of problem pregnancies. Safe and legal abortion has meant saving the lives of many mothers who go on to bear healthy children. If doctors stop doing it or it becomes illegal again, there may be none skilled enough to perform a life-saving medical procedure, even when it is necessary and desperately needed.
Dr. George Tiller’s commitment to the well-being and lives of women, as well as his compassion for the suffering of women, was a Christian commitment worthy of respect. I don’t know many who claim to be Christian who would choose, as Dr. Tiller did, to risk their lives and livelihood every day to stand for respect for women and compassion for the circumstances that force them into difficult choices.
If you have moral objections to abortion, you might consider the approach of the Catholic Bishop Hunthausen, who sought to elevate the status of women and demonstrated at nuclear weapons sites. A Christian approach to making abortion unnecessary should be to stop domestic violence, the sexual assault of women, the sexual abuse of children, teaching men women are not sexual objects, removal of all forms of sexism and discrimination against women for work and economic equality, health care for all, support and care of children whose parents are poor, free and available birth control for all females of childbearing age, and teaching men respect for women of all ages, races, and class. These are moral means to make every child a wanted child.



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Gwyddion9

posted June 2, 2009 at 10:54 pm


cyberateos aptly shows the disregard for those who think or believe differently the he and most likely the RR as well. Personally, I view them as terrorists and think they should be treated as such.
hootie1fan,
I agree with you. The RR and those of their religious beliefs don’t really care about anything unless it meets their “moral” standards, which really doesn’t have anything to do with morals. As always, it’s all about hypocrisy.



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Maya

posted June 3, 2009 at 2:29 pm


The murder of Tiller was no more justice than Tiller’s murder of 60,000 babies during his lifetime. Both sides are horribly wrong in their actions. You can only kill in self defense, and the only possible exception is if someone else is being killed and you happen upon the situation and have to act fast to save the person.
Certainly the bible doesn’t condone vigilantism. The bible is a law and order book.



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Yori Yanover

posted June 3, 2009 at 3:26 pm


Maya – You are UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY WRONG in your statement, “The murder of Tiller was no more justice than Tiller’s murder of 60,000 babies during his lifetime. Both sides are horribly wrong in their actions.”
According to biblical law, abortion is not a capital crime but only, possibly, grounds for damages, while murder is punishable by death. I have no idea where you Christians have dug up the notion that a fetus is a complete person, endowed with rights, or that the life of a fetus and the life of the mother are equal. You did not get it from the Bible.
Now, running around murdering people because you hate them is something Christians have been doing since the start of that franchise, so I’m not exactly surprised. But I was hoping you’d gotten more civilized.
Very disappointing.



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Maya

posted June 3, 2009 at 5:02 pm


Hi Yori. It’s common sense. People know what a baby is the second it pops from the womb. Likewise they know what it is the few days and weeks before that. It’s the same baby, and killing that baby is definitely murder to all sane reasonable people.
Plus, anyone who has ever seen videos and photos of aborted babies knows it’s murder just by looking at it. But, perhaps you haven’t watched abortions. You should, though, for it would help you have an informed opinion on the matter.
Having said that, Tiller (killer of 60,000) and his gunman (a killer of one) are both dead wrong. No one has the right to another person, except in self defense.
Now, I wonder if you’re perhaps not a very honest seeker of truth, though, for you said: “running around murdering people because you hate them is something Christians have been doing since the start of that franchise, so I’m not exactly surprised”
This statement by you is obviously a bald face lie. If 100,000 atheists don’t kill anyone, but then one does, would it be correct of you to say that “atheists have been running around murdering people since the start of that franchise”??? A person who said such would definitely not be civilized.
Cheers.



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Yori Yanover

posted June 3, 2009 at 9:19 pm


Hey, Maya,
The Christian record is pretty thick with blood over the centuries, the blood of Christian- and non-Christian victims alike. The very idea that you can tell another human being how they should behave, without knowing anything about them other than the fact that they happened in your path outside an abortion clinic, does not befit a spiritually complex and evolved faith. The hand that murders doctors is the same hand that launched the crusades and the Inquisition.
As to your statement that “It’s common sense” — we don’t base our laws and our conduct on what makes sense to us but on the law. And man’s law derives its principles from Divine law, and Divine law does not say that abortions are murder. Read the Bible, see for yourself.
When we equate real life — the mother — with potential life — the fetus, our law always sides with the real, existing life. The idea that recently American law actually sided with the potential life over the real life in late-term abortions is both illogical and contradictory to Divine law.
As to abortion NOT being murder, again, read your bible:
“If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fetus is expelled from her, and yet no tragedy follow (meaning the woman did not die): he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.” (Ex. 21:22)
For an abortion that is done AGAINST the wishes of the mother, the offender pays damages; how much more so for performing an abortion at the BEHEST of the mother.



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sam

posted June 4, 2009 at 12:03 am


As Christians we have often mistreated each other under the pretense of “God’s will”. If there is anything that Jesus taught us it is that we must love our enemies and do good to them that dispitefully use you. What Dr. Tiller did was wrong and we must peacefully argue to have the law changed. But as Christians we must be willing to go further. It means that we should be willing to love Dr. Tiller MORE than we love ourselves. Would you be willing to die so that Dr. Tiller, who did some terrible things, would live. That is what Christ did for all of us. He asks that we learn to do the same.



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Yori Yanover

posted June 4, 2009 at 5:49 am


Sam — Dr. Tiller did not do terrible things, he was dedicated to healing many thousands of patients, including under age girls raped by their fathers, women with cervical cancer, women with dead fetuses whose local doctors refused to help. Dr. Tiller was a brave man who stood up to murderous bullies, while around him other doctors were intimidated and gave up the practice, and the government agents in charge of keeping the law let the forces of evil harass and finally murder him.



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Maya

posted June 4, 2009 at 8:40 am


Yori,
I don’t care about religion, but in fact the leaders of blood were the Marxists of the 20th century and the abortionists of the modern era. By comparison, the Christians of history drew very little blood at all, and that was mostly during defensive wars between states.
Next, the hand that murders doctors is the same hand of doctors who murder children by the thousands each day across the U.S. In contrast, the crusades were defensive wars, and wars waged in defense of countries are not the same as vigilante murder or the killing of innocent children. Though I admit war sucks, too.
I don’t care about your antiquated religion. It’s evident to anyone looking at a baby when it comes from the womb that it is a human person with the same right to live as you have. And, it is just as evident to anyone looking at a baby in the womb using medical cameras that it’s the same baby. And whether you watch it slaughtered just as it comes out, or whether you watch it slaughtered while it’s still inside, you know it’s pure evil.
No one could ever watch real abortions and imagine that we’re not watching the unjust horrific slaughter of “real, existing life.” Only a person who has not watched abortions could imagine say something so uninformed.
Your assignment: watch videos of abortion online. Spend a few hours doing the research. I guarantee that once you’ve observed them live you’ll never say the nonsense you’re saying here at this thread.
Get your religion out of this discussion, Yori. Use REASON and SCIENCE and conscience and empathy for humanity and individual creatures.



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Yori Yanover

posted June 4, 2009 at 9:35 am


Maya,
It is the very Marxist and fascistic regimes you (and I) loath so much which have based their policies of genocide on their version of reason and science. Marxism was taught as an academic subject in Soviet universities while millions of peasants were being exterminated. A self-serving version of Darwinism was the foundation of the Nazi extermination of millions of Jews and other minorities. You must face the internal contradiction within your own statement!
My antiquated religion revolutionized mankind by teaching us that we are all the children of a loving and caring God who is immensely interested in our lives. That same God has taught us His will regarding our behavior. It is a complex and wonderful document called Torah, which is intended for grownups who know better than to rely on their own visceral reactions to videotapes when attempting to reconcile difficult issues. God said to us “Love your fellow man as you do yourself, I am God.” In other words, if you want to reach me, you must do it through your treatment of others.
In the abortion debate, no one is happily pursuing the death of unborn fetuses. To make that claim is to dehumanize men and women you disagree with. I offered you the view of the Bible and of our rabbinic teachers on this difficult question. Their response is very clear, and as we see Rabbinic Law as the only valid extension of Biblical Law, I would advise you to at least consider it:
When we are confronted with a yes/no question regarding a conflict between a life that is already in existence, and a life which is still only potential and not fully realized, we ALWAYS side with the life that IS over the life that MIGHT BE.
I opted to overlook your description of the mass murder of near-east residents by blood thirsty crusaders as a war of defense. I’ll leave that to your History teacher.



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s.b

posted June 4, 2009 at 10:41 am


If most of Tiller’s late-term abortions were illegal, which I think likely, wouldn’t you call that murder?! I guess that many people still wouldn’t, and they have the right to, but in my opinion it could be considered such. Kansas does not have an abortion law for nothing anyway: if one breaks it structurally, and there are no judical consequences one may be evoking revenge acts.
If you want to understand why the agression from both sides exists, you really have to investigate the underlying reasons for it. That does not mean condoning it in any way, but just approaching it in a more rational manner.



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Yori Yanover

posted June 4, 2009 at 12:39 pm


s.b. —
There’s nothing rational about murder. Dr. Tiller was assassinated by a terrorist, whose expressed aim was to destroy this physician and to terrorize all the other physicians who would dare follow his practice. In this country we have the legal means of combating terrorism and I expect that our security agencies get off their behinds and mass-arrest these enemies of peace and civilized society.
Your speculation regarding Dr. Tiller performing late-term abortion is just that; but even if he did — which is sanctified by Divine law but not by the Republican-controlled legislator 2 years ago — the law does not consider performing late-term abortion a capital offense.
You either support terrorism or you don’t. If you only oppose terrorism against the people you like, you contribute to terrorism.



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s.b

posted June 4, 2009 at 1:18 pm


@Yori Yanover:
I dont’t think that illegal late-term abortions are “sanctified by Divine law”, but your guess may be as good as mine. The only thing that I am saying is that breaking the law without judical consequences may invoke revenge acts like these, so what has happened here may be a logical result of a chain of corrupt instances that caused an energetic inbalance within society.
If you want to stop that in the future, either the law should be changed or these abortions should be persecuted. The people should be clear about that; now the abortion practice is too fuzzy.



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James Gilmore

posted June 4, 2009 at 1:35 pm


If most of Tiller’s late-term abortions were illegal, which I think likely, wouldn’t you call that murder?!
You think it likely, but the jury who acquitted him doesn’t agree with you. I think I’ll side with the courts on this one over a random person on the Internet.
If you want to understand why the agression from both sides exists, you really have to investigate the underlying reasons for it.
Yes, please, let’s investigate the underlying reasons for the aggression.
Let’s start by investigating Operation Rescue. In my opinion, they’re long overdue for an FBI investigation demanding to know exactly how many people in their organization condone, approve of, or even materially support acts of domestic terrorism like Scott Roemer’s.
Let’s then move on to investigating the rhetoric of the pro-criminalization movement as a whole. When you’re calling your opponents murderers, committers of genocide, and Nazis, what do you think the consequences of this would be? Would we have had any issues with someone killing a concentration camp guard in 1944 Germany? I’m inclined to think not. Thus, those who are already disposed to violence – and we should certainly look at pro-life organizations to see if they’d identified such people and reported them to law enforcement – feel justified in committing acts of domestic terrorism.
The thing that flabbergasts me is that if Scott Roemer were named Saddam al-Roemer, the noise coming from the American Right about this act of terrorism would be deafening. They’d be saying that any person or organization he ever so much as talked to should be investigated, have their bank accounts frozen, and be shut down. Any imam who was thought to have inspired him would have bricks through his mosque window by the end of the week, and Sean Hannity and his fellow racists would be running looped tape and demanding that anyone associated with him be jailed.
Yet because he’s a white Christian boy shooting an abortion doctor, the Christian Right offers only perfunctory condemnations, and certainly doesn’t engage in the kind of soul-searching they ought to do in order to see if their rhetoric might have contributed to this act of terror. This was an act of terrorism, plain and simple, and should be treated as such. Scott Roemer is a terrorist, and we should be investigating to see whether he was part of a larger network of terrorists and terror cells and to see whose rhetoric inspired him to violence.



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s.b

posted June 4, 2009 at 2:03 pm


@James Gilmore :
To my knowledge, the case that you linked to was not about the individual abortions but about Tiller’s financial ties with the person who made the second opinions.
There were plans to persecute Tiller earlier for the abortions as such, but I believe that they were corruptly obstructed.
I have no particular opinions about the Tiller murder other than I have already stated: I don’t condone it, and I think that it could be a result of a chain of many corrupt intances related to abortion practice, that lead to an energetical inbalance within society. Regarding it as an act of terrorism, as you suggest, is really not going to help solve the unclarity of the late-term abortion practice.



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Charm

posted June 4, 2009 at 3:17 pm


I could never have an abortion, not because I think it’s murder, I just couldn’t make the decision to end a life growing inside me. I love my daughter, and I love being a mother.
Having said that, I fully support a woman’s right to make that decision, and NOBODY has the right to tell her otherwise. No government, no church, and certainly no man.
Because the rest of her life is HER life. Who will be there when the baby is crying at night, or when she can’t afford to feed the baby, or she has to live in a run down neighbourhood because she can’t afford better? Who will be paying the child’s medical bills, or dental bills? Who will be her support on those days when she just feels like she can’t do it anymore, and please don’t say “god” because that is no comfort to a mom who is saddled with a child she didn’t want, and is ill prepared to take care of.
We don’t know who will be there, but we know who won’t be. You. All those caring Christians who insisted that she have this child, this unwanted child. You won’t be there to offer her a helping hand, socialised medicine, free daycare, a supportive shoulder to cry on, or lend a hand. Shel’ll be struggling and alone, but for the child she didn’t want, and one whose life she will likely make a misery. I know this because I was that child.
It is because I have been through a pregnancy, and nearly lost that child during that pregnancy that I can say this. I don’t believe that any woman makes that decision lightly, and I believe that any woman who has made this choice has felt it weigh on her for the rest of her life, but who are we to judge her, and why should she have to die at the hands of a back alley butcher for having made this choice.
I hope my daughter will never find herself at this crossroad in her life. It is a terrible burden. But if she does, I hope there is a doctor willing to help her through this procedure safely, so that she can go on to lead a productive life, and have children when she is ready to do so.



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Yori Yanover

posted June 4, 2009 at 4:05 pm


S.B. –
In those hard cases, when one must choose between the life of the mother and the life of her fetus — which is the dominant case in late term abortions, since no one does this for sport or out of a frivolous passion for being torn up on the operating table — we must decide between potential life=fetus and real, fully realized life=mother. If your logic leads you to prefer to kill a living person in order to save an unborn one, then you and I belong on different planets, morally speaking. Unfortunately, the Republicans on the Hill have actually managed to push forward this skewed and perverted scale as law, some two years ago. How barbaric.



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James Gilmore

posted June 4, 2009 at 4:46 pm


Regarding it as an act of terrorism, as you suggest, is really not going to help solve the unclarity of the late-term abortion practice.
No, but it’ll sure do a lot to stop more doctors from being murdered or threatened with violence. Treating this as the act of terrorism it is will enable law enforcement to infiltrate the anti-abortion terrorist cells and ensure that they can no longer conspire to commit violent acts of terror against our citizens.
Quite frankly, in a situation where doctors are being brutally murdered in churches, I couldn’t care less about the “unclarity of the late-term abortion practice,” as you put it. The law enforcement officers with whom our safety is entrusted shouldn’t take the abortion question into account. The only question should be: Are these people condoning, affirming, materially supporting, or conspiring in acts of terrorism and violence? If so, they should be legally prosecuted, period.
Furthermore, those on the pro-criminalization side who (rightly) condemn this act of terror need to do some soul-searching. Did they contribute to the rhetorical environment where these kinds of acts could conceivably be condoned? Did they call opponents of abortion criminalization “murderers” or “baby-killers,” or compare them to Nazis? If so, then they need to repent of this language – because the violent consequences of violent language were made all too clear by Dr. Tiller’s corpse in Reformation Lutheran Church on Pentecost Sunday. If they do not repent of their use of this language, then they are perpetuating a rhetorical environment where more Scott Roemers will be inspired to commit acts of terror in the name of God. I certainly wouldn’t want that on my conscience.
The “unclarity of the late-term abortion practice,” as you put it, is something to be solved in the political arena by people setting policy. It isn’t something to be solved by terrorists with guns, and if we let anything about Scott Roemer affect our policies in any way, we have given into his terrorism.



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s.b

posted June 4, 2009 at 5:13 pm


@ Yori Yanover :
Tiller performed a late-term abortion for reasons such as women not wanting to hire a babysitter when attending rock concerts, and not wanting to miss the prom. Are those choices “between the life of the mother and the life of her fetus”?! The Kansas law also allows late-term abortions when “a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman”, but that is not applicable here either.
@ James Gilmore :
I agree that justice should be done concerning the murder of Tiller, but I fear that another war on terrorism could make things worse instead of better. For example it could radicalize the anti-abortion movement. I expect more of a better exercise of political, judical and medical responsibilities concerning abortion.



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freelunch

posted June 4, 2009 at 8:59 pm


Tiller performed a late-term abortion for reasons such as women not wanting to hire a babysitter when attending rock concerts
Show me the evidence. Apparently you know more than the prosecutor who lost the case. Why didn’t you come forward when you had the chance? Why did you fail to do your civic duty? Why do you come forward now, after Dr. Tiller has been assassinated? Of course it is possible that you are making defamatory claims about Tiller than you cannot back up. I don’t see how a Christian would have made such claims without evidence or fail to come forward during a trial, so I must conclude that you cannot possibly be a Christian.



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s.b

posted June 4, 2009 at 11:27 pm

Yori Yanover

posted June 5, 2009 at 5:43 am


s.b. — Watched the McHugh video on the link from the Jack Cashill article, and as the husband of an attorney who watches a lot of Law and Order I saw how the gentleman’s testimony could be destroyed in court. In the least, his criticism is more about the quality of Tiller’s records of psychiatric evaluation of patients than it is a serious examination of the motives of many thousands of women.
Both the interview and the video are obviously self-serving and the language carefully trimmed to make the desired case, rather than provide a serious and convincing proof to the absurd claim that thousands of women were lining up to undergo a life-risking, painful procedure for nothing except frivolous reasons.
Also, the Cashill presentation of the technique of cutting up the fetus as a kind of trick Dr. Tiller used to go around the law, is misleading either because of ignorance or purposefully. This method of dislodging an unwanted fetus is mentioned by 10th Century commentator Rabbi Shlomo Itzhaki (Rashi), the most widely accepted and most popular authority throughout the Jewish world:
“Regarding a woman having a difficult birth which threatens her life, the midwife may insert her hand and cut up the fetus and extract it in pieces, because as long as it hasn’t come out into the world it is not considered a living being and one may kill it to save its mother.” (Rashi on Sanhedrin 72b)



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freelunch

posted June 5, 2009 at 8:42 am


Yes, s.b., you have shown that you are wrong. There is no evidence that your claims are valid. There is nothing at all to support your allegation that the DA threw the case.



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s.b

posted June 5, 2009 at 9:23 am


@ Yori Yanover :
The “motives” of the women to have a late-term abortion are not relevant according to the Kansas late-term abortion law. As I quoted, only danger for her life and “substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman” can be valid reasons. Apparently, Kline thought that irreversible psychiatric damage could be regarded as such an impairment.
As to McHugh’s credibility, he makes a very credible impression to me but you are right that only the court can decide in these matters. As I wrote earlier, Kline’s case was never handeled in court and I believe that it was corruptly obstructed. The official reason appears to be that “under Kansas Law, charges can only be filed by an Attorney General at the invitation of the District Attorney or request of the governor or legislature”.



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Panthera

posted June 5, 2009 at 12:49 pm


If someone who knows nothing about Christianity were to read the comments posted here, what do you suppose their impression of our religion would be?
Exactly.
The hatred and venom the conservative Christians spew out is inextricably tied up with the murder of Dr. Tiller.
We will never reach an accord within the Christian body on many aspects of life. It is enormously frustrating that those Christians who most passionately feel they have to impose their beliefs on the rest of us Christians are also the ones who either themselves make use of violence or actively support it.
Speaking as a gay, married Christian, I am so very, very glad that my church home is not in the US. What awful, hateful, spiteful people you conservatives are.



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Yori Yanover

posted June 5, 2009 at 4:35 pm


Panthera — Your experience is identical to that of any law abiding Muslim who must deal with the craziness of Muslim terrorists. The solution is the same in the case of Christian as well as Muslim terrorism: Our government must chase after them, arrest and punish them. If America permits Christian terrorists to roam free, then America is no better than Saudi Arabia or Iran.



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Husband

posted June 18, 2009 at 4:22 pm


For funniest line of the year, I nominate Maya’s: “The bible is a law and order book.”
BWAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA.



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Husband

posted June 18, 2009 at 4:26 pm


Sam,
“What Dr. Tiller did was wrong “
Many, many of us simply disagree. And I’m pretty sure that 100% of Dr. Tiller’s patients would disagree with you too.



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Husband

posted June 18, 2009 at 4:31 pm


s.b,
“If most of Tiller’s late-term abortions were illegal, which I think likely …”
Then you ‘think’ incorrectly. He was charged and acquitted. Ergo, not “illegal”.



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Husband

posted June 18, 2009 at 4:47 pm


s.b continues…
“I dont’t think that illegal late-term abortions are “sanctified by Divine law”, but your guess may be as good as mine. The only thing that I am saying is that breaking the law without judical consequences may invoke revenge acts like these”
Except, of course, the procedure was not “illegal” and Dr. Tiller did not “[break] the law”. That’s just you opinion and the jury disagreed with you.
“There were plans to persecute Tiller earlier for the abortions”
So, there was a conpiracy to commit terrorism then. Good to see that you can at least acknowledge that.
“Tiller performed a late-term abortion for reasons such as women not wanting to hire a babysitter when attending rock concerts, and not wanting to miss the prom.”
You will, of course. be providing substantiated links to prove this outrageous allegation, won’t you? (Hint: the Cashill opinion piece was just that – Mr. Cashill’s opinion. We’re looking for actual verification of facts, not one right-winger’s opinion.)
“it ["another war on terrorism"]could radicalize the anti-abortion movement”
You mean planning and encouraging assasination isn’t ‘radical’ enough for you? Disgusting!



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Originally appeared on Tikkun Daily BlogEver since the victory over the dictator of Tunisia and the subsequent uprising in Egypt, my email has been flooded with messages from Jews around the world hoping and praying for the victory of the Egyptian people over their cruel Mubarak regime.&nb

posted 1:48:39pm Feb. 01, 2011 | read full post »

When Generosity, Love, and Kindness are Public Policy, the Violence We Saw in Arizona will Dramatically Diminish
The attempted assassination of Congresswoman Giffords and the murder of so many others in Arizona has elicited a number of policy suggestions, from gun control to private protection for elected officials, to banning incitement to violence on websites either directly or more subtly (e.g., Sarah Palin

posted 2:44:04pm Jan. 19, 2011 | read full post »

The Spiritual Messages of Chanukah and Christmas -- and Their Downsides
Christmas and Chanukah share a spiritual message: that it is possible to bring light and hope in a world of darkness, oppression and despair. But whereas Christmas focuses on the birth of a single individual whose life and mission was itself supposed to bring liberation, Chanukah is about a national

posted 12:59:53pm Dec. 02, 2010 | read full post »

Obama (and Biden) Have No Clue About What's Bothering Their Political Base
Shortly before the California Democratic primary in 2008, the San Fransisco Chronicle invited me to write a short article explaining why I, chair of the interfaithNetwork of Spiritual Progressives, was supporting Barack Obama. Like most other progressive activists, I understood that a pres

posted 1:44:11pm Sep. 30, 2010 | read full post »




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