O Me of Little Faith

O Me of Little Faith


How to Evangelize an Atheist

posted by Jason Boyett

Yesterday Matthew Paul Turner pointed to this video by Christian author and radio personality June Hunt, about how to get an atheist thinking so much that he or she might be willing to transition from their hard-core atheism to, at least, a form of agnosticism — and therefore leaving them open to considering the Christian God.


Ms. Hunt sure makes it seem simple. The “circles of knowledge” approach for those who admit to being seekers of truth, she says, “has been very successful.”

But it occurs to me that, using the same logic, the same isn’t-your-knowledge-pretty-limited? circle-drawing approach would be just as effective in forcing a Christian to consider that Allah could be the true god and Islam the one true religion. Because couldn’t some form of truth exist outside that which think we know?

It could also force us to admit that Norse mythology could an accurate worldview. Or that Joseph Smith and his Mormon faith were true. Or that Mictlantecuhtli, the skeletal Aztec god of death who wears a necklace of human eyeballs, could possible exist in a horrible afterlife somewhere outside our limited range of knowledge.

Know any Christians who are just a few quick questions away from making those leaps? Me neither. Then why do we expect atheists to be ready to do the same?

I think humility is good, and admitting the limits of our knowledge is healthy. That’s why we doubt: because we don’t know everything. And that’s also why we seek truth.

But that doesn’t mean conversion is quite this easy, even with powerful illustrations of empty circles.

[Original H/T: Christian Nightmares]



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Charlie Chang

posted October 27, 2010 at 7:23 am


Yeah, when I read about Jesus talking with people, it wasn’t a formula and he didn’t beat them over the head with the Roman’s Road.



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Ken Grant

posted October 27, 2010 at 7:46 am


I think the recent post you had about atheists/agnostics having more knowledge about religion should give anyone trying this kind of approach reason to pause.
The Christian assumption that those who have chosen not to believe are just ignorant and need to have everything explained to them is both ill-informed and condescending.
As with most of these approaches, it’s easier to find a “one-size-fits-all-cookie-cutter” approach than it is to do the hard work of listening and having a real conversation.
What if Christians were to take a month to be silent and actively listen to the people around them? I wonder how different our conversations would be after that – just a thought.



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DKeane

posted October 27, 2010 at 8:48 am


As an atheist – I agree 100% that there is some extremely small probability that a god of some form exists. In the same way that I would assert that there is also some small probability that evolution is not the process by which we evolved. But, I would say that the probabilities are so small that the end result is non-belief.
A good example – is there some place in the universe(s) where gravity does not exist? Possibly – would I operate on the assumption that gravity is not functional 100% of the time? No.
All honest atheists are agnostics – there is no such thing as 100% sure when it comes to an evidence based opinion. Mathematics is the only profession that can state 100% surety.
At the end of this is a major stretch for me. I have done a great deal of listening and research into the religious “truth” that “they have found” and I have found no evidence for their positions.
Would I like there to be a good that is generous, looks after us, understands our problems and offers an eternity of bliss/understanding? Sure, but I would also like to be able to fly like superman…



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DKeane

posted October 27, 2010 at 8:56 am


excuse me – at the end “good” should be “god”



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Susan Van

posted October 27, 2010 at 9:56 am


By her own logic that lady is an agnostic. If she is honest, she will admit that her “Circle of knowledge” does not include factual knowledge of a god.



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MARTIN S.

posted October 27, 2010 at 11:30 am


An atheist is a vacuum that
doesn’t want to be filled.
Unless they realize their
need for GOD and begin to
understand they have no hope
or future apart for HIM!!



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Charlie's Church of Christ

posted October 27, 2010 at 11:35 am


I think it’s a delicate balance because there is nothing wrong with being firm or convicted, but at the same time I think God encourages us to not have clenched fists because he regularly shakes people up and shows upside down truth.



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kenneth

posted October 27, 2010 at 1:14 pm


I’m going to get a sandwich board and bullhorn and stand on a streetcorned calling for people to “get right with Mictlantecuhtli!” As you say, you NEVER know, and wouldn’t you want to be on his good side if judgment day takes you that direction? :)



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DKeane

posted October 27, 2010 at 1:16 pm


Martin S. – I am not a vacuum – I am a human being, doing my best to live in a universe that is entirely indifferent to my existence.
Charlie – I agree with you that it is important to keep an open mind and allow new informational to possibly change how you view the world. Of course, I disagree that God is the mechanism for receiving the new information.



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Reasonable Pursuits

posted October 27, 2010 at 1:18 pm


Let’s not forget that atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive. Agnosticism is the state of not definitively knowing whether a god exists in the universe. Atheism is the state of disbelief in all present dogmas, creeds, superstitions and religions.
“I am not sure a god can be proved or disproved. But in the mean time, I do not believe in the truth of Christianity, Hinduism, Shintoism, etc. I am an agnostic atheist.”
Likewise, there remains the possibility of being an agnostic theist – someone who does not know if god can be proved or disproved, but who chooses to identify with some sort of faith. (see Pascal’s wager…)
June’s idea that agnosticism is a step toward god is ill-conceived.



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Scott Bailey

posted October 27, 2010 at 1:22 pm


Actually, other than the fact that her argument can be easily turned on her, and she is exceedingly patronizing (“and you are a seeker of truth aren’t you?”) her argument is fundamentally flawed in that she confuses knowledge with beliefs as one and the same.



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Susan Van

posted October 27, 2010 at 2:32 pm


Martin S,
A theist is a vacuum filled.
Unless he realizes what he
has picked up is not helping
him live a happy & full-filled
life.
I don’t mind full vacuums. I
only mind it if they leak their
contents on my life.



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DF

posted October 27, 2010 at 4:12 pm


So Ms. Hunt is open to the (likely) possibility that she’s worshiping the wrong deity?
That there may be 453590348 gods, and not just one?
Atheism is a lack of belief: it is not a positive belief in no God. Burden of proof falls on the one making the claim. So you say there is a God? Prove it. Unless you do, there’s no reason to accept the claim as true.
And don’t point to manmade literature or alleged eyewitness accounts: just walk down any ward of an insane asylum and witness how unimpressive faith really is.
Until you can demonstrate that an invisible violin is floating around my head, I’m not going to believe there is one. So too with any and all fabricated deities.



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steveT

posted October 27, 2010 at 5:03 pm


jb~
honest and intelligent reasoning, can be a risky business. for integrity’s (and dare i say, truth’s?) sake, i believe we must open ourselves to considering almost anything reasonable. in my experience, this scares most religious people (including christians) to death. yet it really shouldn’t, should it?
i really don’t KNOW anything. i’ve sensed things, i’ve interpreted experiences as evidence and i’ve even intuited certain things as i explore this whole question of the existence of God, belief systems and spirituality and an unseen world.
it’s becoming far more reasonable for me to believe in and follow how Jesus lived and what He taught, than it is to buy lock, stock and barrel the religion that surrounds Him. this is really quite scary. but….the adventure becomes more and more appealing as I watch my life change as a result.
i get tired over debating beliefs. but let’s start talking about how we live and how we connect, love and interact with each other, and my soul really perks up.
~steveT



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Mark

posted October 27, 2010 at 11:38 pm


As an atheist, I can tell you that a logically construed argument about something that doesn’t exist (for me) isn’t going to convince me or get me to change my mind.
A miracle could change my mind. Sadly, I have never witnessed one for myself. I am glad that you may have, but it isn’t enough to convince me that a perfectly natural cause was at work.



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Rich Wilson

posted October 27, 2010 at 11:47 pm


Would June be open to the idea that somewhere outside her circle of knowledge exists the fact that God is blue and has the head of an elephant?
It is true that the fool has said in his heart that there is no God. But absolute assertions to the existence or non-existence of God are primarily the realm of the religious. Atheists make no such claim. Atheists merely claim that it is extremely unlikely.



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ylooshi

posted October 28, 2010 at 2:05 am


“…to get an atheist thinking so much that he or she might be willing to transition from their hard-core atheism to, at least, a form of agnosticism…”
Why do so many people think there’s some sort of hierarchy with atheism and agnosticism? One does not mutually exclude the other. Atheist says one thing about a person; agnostic says another. It would be a bit like saying I’m American and speak English. Lots of people are American but not all speak English; lots of people speak English -but not all are American.
I’m an agnostic atheist. I don’t believe in gods; and I don’t think I *know* for sure gods don’t exist.



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clasqm

posted October 28, 2010 at 3:54 am


Mark: “A miracle could change my mind. Sadly, I have never witnessed one for myself.”
Not necessary. As Spinoza pointed out four centuries ago, miracles do not prove the existence of god. If anything, they call it into question. A miracle is an intervention in the normal order of things (as ordered by the laws of nature), which implies that there was something drastically wrong with the original plan. Which means that the hypothetical planner’s omniscience and/or omnipotence is open to debate.
Of course, if the miracle was planned all along and implicit in the Big Bang itself, then it is simply the result of a law of nature that we are yet unaware of. Which means that it is not actually a miracle. So arguing from miracles brings you to a rigid determinism as found in Islam and the more extreme edges of Calvinism, where there are no miracles!
As for the original topic, sorry, I don’t have sound on this computer (cheapskate employers, what can I say?) but from what I read here, it seems like it is a version of Pascal’s wager. Again. What do we have to do to kill that piece of nonsense?



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Susan Van

posted October 28, 2010 at 10:10 pm


The “miracle” evidence is dumb for another reason. Why would you adopted the moral values of someone who can do something outside the laws of nature? Isn’t it just as likely that that the miracle worker is a demon or is ambivalent about human morality? So how does one decide whether or not to follow and adopt the moral values of a miracle worker if one doesn’t already have a sense of what is moral?
Why don’t people realize that a god’s morality is redundant.



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MH

posted October 30, 2010 at 5:11 pm


clasqm, it was more like the argument from ignorance. Your knowledge doesn’t equal the set of all knowledge so you can’t claim to be an atheist. Basically it starts off with a logical and gets worse from there.
Also, Spinoza’s conception of God was pretty different from the classical Jewish and Christian position. Different enough to get him expelled from his religion.



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ckitching

posted October 31, 2010 at 12:55 am


“I’m interested in your conclusions”, and then proceeds to talk at her nephew in an attempt to prove him wrong and convert him. So, she started her proselytizing script with a flat-out lie. The use of Psalm 14:1 was really classy, too. Why only the first sentence, though? Doesn’t she think her nephew is corrupt and incapable of doing good?
I have to say that women like this one, and scripts like the one she advocates in this video is often why atheists can come off as “angry” when a Christian talks about their faith. Many have had the misfortune of being someone’s witnessing project, and the feeling that someone cares more about winning your soul for [insert-deity] than you is extremely alienating and obnoxious (only slightly below those who announce that they can’t be your friend anymore when they learn you don’t believe).
I guess my only point is, don’t try unprompted conversions if a relationship is important to you. At best, a failed attempt can often leave both parties uncomfortable around each other, and at worst, it can utterly destroy the relationship.



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Simon Anthony

posted October 31, 2010 at 5:17 am


IF she were able to define God, she would have a more convincing argument. If she could specify how a lack of knowledge pointed at a specific answer it would destroy the scientific method. We have come a long way using science. It is a different question to ask if that is that a good thing though. That question underlies her reasoning.
Donald Rumsfeld makes her same error about areas of knowledge. We don’t know what we don’t know but – we do know the laws that make things work. The entirety of the world’s knowledge is an exponentially expanding circle, but, more importantly each part of it is linked. No parts indicate unknowns that stay unknown for long – they get asked then answered faster today than at any time in human history.
And finally. My knowledge is not a circle, it is a fine mesh of dots in her diagram, again, each part linking to all the others. I too can fill in the gaps. God is a gap I spend my life filling. I see no reason to worship gaps, I like the filling.



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RandomAtheist

posted November 1, 2010 at 2:10 am


The problem with Christian logic is that they refuse to apply it to their own thought processes. Hands down, that is their biggest downfall. If they would ever simply admit that they’re beliefs don’t make any MORE sense than all the other ridiculous beliefs out there, they’d stop losing half their following.
The other half, however, doesn’t care how stupid the ideas sound, they’re going to believe it anyways simply BECAUSE it’s ludicrous. And no amount of common sense or logic will change that.



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truth

posted November 4, 2010 at 4:21 am


If an atheist is read the whole bible this is what will make him change his mind, as the bible itself says at hebrew 12th chapter “Gods word is alive and it knows the thoughts and intentions of the heart” of each and everyone of us, so of course it will teach him to believe in God, his promisesm and what is truth and what is the lie, I have plenty of ex atheists in my religion, who when taught the truth of gods word, are no longer atheists.



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truth

posted November 4, 2010 at 4:35 am


One such false teaching is a burning hell, at jeremiah 7:31 where he ( god) states that this something he has never commanded and that has never come up into his heart or his mind, to burn the children in the fire. And also psalm 146:3,4 where it states that when a person dies his thought stop. if his thoughts stop, what good is it for him to burn he wont feel it. aso in proverbes where it states that if a person is doing good or bad on the earth, on the earth is where he will pay for it, I certainly know I am paying for every one of my sins right now. I dont need a burning hell,



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Gary Mac

posted November 4, 2010 at 4:50 am


It is hard to tell someone about Christ when you really don’t know yourself. Many say they follow the way of Christ but are not like Him at all. They do not believe they can be that person of Christ that Jesus came to teach them to be. They refer to themselves sinners instead of His righteous. It isn’t by words that Jesus is remembered it is by his actions that he is remembered.
God sent an example for us to follow to be like to Imitate. How can one lead another to something that he doesn’t believe himself? People have turned Christ into an object they can relate to, a man separated from them. They cant relate to the part where the Spirit that was in that man was God nor can they relate to the kingdom of God is within them, Luke 17:21. To be that anointed person of God that Jesus was one has to be like Him, have the mind of Christ, walk as He walks, pick up that cross and continue where he left off. How can the blind lead the blind?
Reading the bible and forming opinions about it is not of Christ, but reading the bible and applying to self what is written is of Christ. The word is only a tutorial to lead one to the Christ and Jesus came only to lead you to the Christ. Christ in you is the only witness one can possibly have, anything short of being Gods anointed is religious beliefs formed from laws for tradition which make your god what you want him to be. We in Christ are like Him, one with Him. Christ is my witness, I am like Him. Christ is my witness, I am like Him for my God is Spirit, His Spirit resides in me and that Spirit is love. How simple and how complicated man has made Him. No wonder people don’t believe in God, they have never been exposed to the God of love, they have been exposed to someone else’s opinions about Him.



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Mary Ellen

posted November 4, 2010 at 6:59 am


This is a wonderful exchange and I appreciate the comments. My thoughts, at the outset, is why are you trying to convince someone against their will? The ‘Great Commission” is taken seriously by many. As another comment provides, following Him and living Christ’s love and experiencing the peace of the Holy Spirit in one’s life is the thing that will change your life and if it touches another who seeks peace and love and spirit, then that is a natural process of mutual respect and love. In serving others, forgiving others and oneself, reading God’s word are a way of life and in that transformation, it is apparent to me that respect and humility and loving my neighbor as they are is an expression of what Christ has taught me.



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JACK FLORES

posted November 4, 2010 at 8:35 am


THE CHRISTIAN FAITH. JESUS CHRIST AS MENTIONED IN THE HOLY BOOK OF THE BIBLE HAS DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES TO NAME A FEW: THE ANNOINTED ONE, MESSENGER, SAVIOUR, PROPHET, INTERCESSOR, SON OF MAN, SON OF GOD, TEACHER, AND ETC. JESUS CHRIST CAME FROM HEAVEN AND WAS BORN TO VIRGIN MARY BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TO SAVE THE HUMAN SOUL FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION. HE TEACHES RIGHTEOUSNESS, HUMILITY AND LOVE. IF ONE HAS FAITH AND FOLLOW HIS WORD WITHOUT SCRUTINY, YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN.



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Jennifer Marie

posted November 4, 2010 at 9:20 am


One of the key Foundations as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is
and should be Love. Love sets the Foundation for everything else!
If you don’t have love,then you don’t have anything!
Too many times…There are those that choose to judge a Book by
it’s cover making judgement calls,assuming things,Being fake and not
real to what we really should be as Christians and giving the cold-
shoulder to others rather than extending Jesus Christ’s hand of
Compassion and setting the real example that Jesus really set out
for us to represent.Others are watching how Christians live their
lives to see whether or not Christians are truly doing what they are
supposed to represent.If we aren’t walking in love…then how do we
even begin to expect that others will have the openess to have
Jesus Christ to be a part of their lives? The world can spot who is
real or fake. Also,due to the judgement calls and such…rather than
walking in love…there are so many that are so turned away from
Christianity that they either don’t want anything to do with Religion
at all or they choose to keep on experimenting with various things
to fill the void in their lives…or they choose to follow after
other gods through the following of various pagan religious choices
such as:Wicca,witchcraft,satanism,sorceries and more…
They also choose such things because they are trying to find
acceptance.Along with love,it is a MUST that people experience
acceptance. If a Follower of Jesus Christ expects to be effective for
the Kingdom of God then we must be willing to actually live the life,talk the talk and walk the Walk! We also,must be willing to be Real and true to what all we are supposed to be according to Jesus Christ! If we can’t exbit the love and various other attributes that
Christ set forth,then it is time for an examination of the heart!



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Nicole

posted November 4, 2010 at 9:54 am


I believe that we are called to witness the life, death, love and compassion of Jesus Christ. God uses people, us as believers to make things happen in this world for others. If we don’t share the love of Jesus Christ with those that are lost or claiming to be athiest, then do we love Jesus and display his love and compassion for His people. I haven’t always believed as deeply as I do today, and I thank God daily for those that were obedient and willing to share the Good News of Jesus Christ with me :-) and I thank God for sharing another way of doing it today with this teaching, God is Awesome! He knows what you need when you need it!



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Bob Canner

posted November 4, 2010 at 9:56 am


Very good teaching tool to at least open a dialogue.
But this is a two edged sword for anyone.
A good friend told me that real “thinking” is examining
beliefs we already hold in light of new information that
is presented to us.
As a Christian, I was totally fascinated with the words of
Christ when He said he would return as a “Thief in the Night.”
What if He already has returned, but our little circle of
knowledge is preventing us from discovering the truth?
Remember, you don’t know that a thief in the night has been
with you until he has already departed.



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JACK FLORES

posted November 4, 2010 at 12:55 pm


I have never been inspired in my whole life by people who don’t believe in God. I am a firm believer in righteousness taught by Jesus Christ. He is a complete mystery to man. He has lot of personalities in the book of the Holy Bible. Namely among them: Son of Man, Teacher, Son of God, Saviour, Mediator, Prophet, Preacher, Man and God, The Anointed ONE and lot more. There is only but One God. Man in his own wisdom is impossible of knowing God’s wisdom and the mystery of his creations. We have no authority to question the wisdom of God rightly or wrongly by human logic or justification. God is so powerful and can do everything or anything impossible to man. He can transform into any human form. We never knew that Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and God the Father is the same one God. My faith is, Jesus Christ came down from heaven to reveal the existence of God and preach the word of God which is LOVE, HUMILITY AND RIGHTEOUSNESS TO SAVE THE HUMAN SOUL FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION IN THE SPIRIT WORLD.
GOD has never revealed the secret of HIS mystery to man. I honestly believe that by following faithfully the THREE BASIC PRINCIPLES of His teaching, we will live in harmony with other fellow human being, have physical happiness in life, be at peace throughout our life on earth and live with GOD in heaven after the death of our mortal body. My faith is centered on the belief that there is SPIRITUAL LIFE after death. The spiritual life lives with God in the Paradise in Heaven if one dies holy or with complete righteous deeds while living physically on earth. THIS IS MY FAITH, BELIEVING WITHOUT SEEING. I BELIEVE IN THE EXISTENCE OF GOD AND I CAN PROVE IT. THE SUN IS ONE BIG BASIC EXAMPLE. WHO CREATED THE SUN THAN SHINES FOREVER SINCE ITS CREATION? SCIENCE CAN NEVER PROVE IT BY ANY FACT OR THEORY, WITHOUT FAITH IN GOD. IT IS GOD WHO CREATED EVERYTHING IMPOSSIBLE TO MAN. I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS IS THE MISSING LINK – FAITH IN GOD TO BE ABLE
TO UNDERSTAND THE NATURE THAT SURROUNDS US AND ITS MYSTERY.



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Jimi

posted November 4, 2010 at 12:55 pm


Well said, from a 57 yr. old agnostic, raised in the southern Baptist faith.



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Your Name

posted November 4, 2010 at 1:25 pm


I do believe in a Creator Deity, however I do not believe the so-called gods of the bible. There is absolutely NO historical evidence for Abraham, Moses or the other biblical patriarchs. These tales were re-inventions of the ancient Sumerian stories learned in Babylon and convoluted by a group of people to create a cosmology of their own. Their god yahweh was a mere concocted tribal god who was one of the many sons of the most high el elyon. El elyon parcelled out the lands among his not so good son’s of god and they constantly warred with one another. We only get one side of the story as the history is always told by the winner. Yahweh reflected the men who created him to be a vicious war mongering blood thirsty killer and thief. He even condoned the rape of little girls and forced his own people into a situation where they could either die of famine or kill and eat their own children. According to the good book, they chose to eat their kids! It is one of the filthiest and vile books ever written.
As for the myth of the NT, there were approxamately 50 well know historians/authors who lived during the very time we are told jesus lived yet not one of them found his interesting enought to write one book, one chapter, one page or one sentence about him. Surely all the miracles he did, the uproars he caused and most assuredly dead people rising and going into a city to show themselves in the presence of over 500 people would have caught the attention of at least one of these historians. All there is outside of the bible comes to us much later by men who never knew him, heard him or saw him. It is all hearsay and hearsay is worthless unless there is proof positive. No court in the world would allow hearsay as evidence even in the smallest of cases and of this we should be glad. If this were not the case anyone could be convicted of a crime only on the words of hearsay and the guilty could be set free by the same method. We would have a world ruled by the best liars. The ancient church fathers admitted in their own writtings they did not know who wrote the four gospels and they chose four gospels to represent the four winds or seasons!
There are many good points in the bible but they were all taught by men long before the era of jesus. The buddha’s, krishna, the Egyptian priests, Zoroaster and Mithra all taught similiar themes. The ten commandments can be found in the Egyptian book of the dead and in King Hammurabi’s law code, both are much older. No one ever seems to read the bible much or know much about what it says. Few ever notice the war between Paul and the other apostles. Jesus taught one gospel and Paul teaches an entirely different doctrine. People chose to read Paul the most because he introduces personal gain and greed and that is why this world is in such a mess.
Our Founders were mostly Deists and did not think highly of christianity. Washington and Adams made that clear when the Treaty of Tripoli was written stating in part ‘The United States of America is in no sense founded on christianity’. Period. Jefferson thought the teachings of jesus were noble but he created his own NT and cut out all the miracles and hocus pocus. He did not think jesus was a god or a son of god. There are many quotes to be found that proves beyond any doubt our Founders thought very little of christianity or any organized manmade religion.
Our Constitution and Bill of Rights give us all the right to freedom of religion and no one has the right to force one’s beliefs on another. The same circle of knowledge test this nice lady presented can work both ways. Some think they must have all the knowledge of everything to cling to a myth and be so closed minded they will never step outside their box of arrogance to consider what they believe and why. The Founding Father and Father of the American Revolution wrote that religion is merely an accident of birth. Your religion is usually chosen for you before you were born. It depends on where you are born and what culture your family was raised in. This will be what is handed down to you and few will ever think their own family could be in era. Muslims are raised to be muslims, hindu’s as hinfu’s, mormon’s as mormons’, JW’s as JW’s and jew’s as jew’s etc. On and on it goes because without the bondage and lies of revealed religions there could be no war and the powers that be who get filthy rich from war would be like the rest of the simple herds and have to work for a living. Slowly people are catching on but the world has a long way to go. None of you are right and you need to examine your own level of knowledge. Do yourselves a very important favor and google FEMA CLERGY RESPONSE TEAMS and get a good look at the “wolves in sheeps clothing, LAZY DOGS GREEDY FOR GAIN that you pay to tell you lies while they are working for the devil and stuffing their pockets. Your own bibles warn you about these men but you keep right on damn near worshipping these human parasites. What ever happened to real men who could think and make decisions without having to run to a paid hirely to tell them what to do? Organized religion goes hand in hand with sexual perversion and pedophilia. These revolting degenerates always go where there is a vast supply of innocent helpless children with parents too stupid to figure it all out and who keep handing their precious children over to these mongrels. Forced religion on any child should be considered an act of child abuse and those who do such things are not fit to be a parent.
The Creator I serve is not a vicious killing machine who demands blood or respects one group above another. The Creator would never do anything to harm a child or any innocent person. The Creator created us all there is only one Creator. The god you are praying to is the prince of darkness. America the christian nation where babies are aborted by the millions, drug addiction is rampant, we lead the world in murders and pedophilia, we lead the world in drugs and porn so if this nation is an example of being christian, I will gladly pass. Christianity has destroyed this nation and since they are hell bent on marching all over the globe spreading their gospel and demon-ocracy, soon the entire planet will be just as evil and vicious. Creator, please have mercy on this world.



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Linda

posted November 4, 2010 at 3:20 pm


I think we should all “KISS” = keep it simple silly…Just like Jesus does…Just take the simple step of inviting God into your life if He is really real like others say…then repent of your sins…then accept His Son as your Rescuer/Savior…Then read His Truth/Word daily & watch “the light bulb” go off one day as you sit back & realize you’ve just had an experience with God that surpasses anyone trying to convience you He is real!!! His Knowledge = His Empowerment to defeat the enemy/satan who blinds our minds/heart/spirit/souls to thinking there is no God…It’s a simple decision to accept Him in your heart & over time see what happens as you educate yourself in His Living Word of Truths…
John 3:16
Psalm 14:1
John 15
Hosea 4:6
Isaiah 53:5
Isaiah 54:17
Romans 12:2
Galaltians4-5-6
Ephesians 3:19



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Neil Gilligan

posted November 4, 2010 at 3:47 pm


Thanks Jason, good video, good comments after it and I want to share my perspective. @ Your Name… cited many things that are true…Not wanting to address them all, but Thomas Jefferson was an Enlightenment child and with that influence he “cut out all the miracles and hocus pocus” as Your Name wrote.
I just submitted a book to my publisher: “Wake Up! Preparing for the End-Times Outpouring” by Neil Gilligan July 2011. In it I discuss the Enlightenment in how people pushed away the Christian belief in miracles and driving out demons. Jefferson was just one of many intellectuals who did the same thing. I discuss how the little horn had defeated the saints during the Enlightenment (Daniel 7:21). That corresponded to the miracles and driving out demons was discredited and considered to be myths. Most Christians were unable to demonstrate the gifts of the Spirit and show them they were not myths. Consequently, Jefferson and many other intellectuals pushed away the belief that Jesus Christ’s power can work through Christians – that was how the saints were defeated. The promise that Christians can be continually filled by the Spirit of God was hidden away from believers, as well as, having the Spirit upon believers was also hidden from them (Eph 5:18; Luke 4:18). The Christians were being defeated and now we live in the post-defeat era of the saints. Christians are called to counteract this defeat.
I wrote in my book: “Transformed by the Power of God: Learning to be Clothed in Jesus Christ” how I was transformed into a miracle worker because Jesus was with me. And I saw many people come to Christ because I could release the Spirit Gifts and see healing, miracles, driving out demons and words of knowledge. When I encountered an atheist and they experience a miracle, the miracle speaks for itself. They have an experience they cannot deny. You can talk to them about their miraculous experience and explain that Jesus Christ healed them. This works with atheists, Muslims and New Age seekers. If the Christians all get dressed and then en masse release the gifts of the Spirit we can transform our society and eventually the whole world (Rev 11:15). Get the book, get dressed and demonstrate the Lord is with you.



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Kate

posted November 4, 2010 at 5:04 pm


@Neil, if we had no more proof of George Washington than has been provided for the existence of a man named jesus we would be fools to believe he existed. The christ concept is nothing new and the Egyptians were among the first to present this concept. The same exact face that is on the so-called shroud of Turin was also found on a wall in ancient Egypt.
The Essenes taught the very same things that jesus is said to have taught but they wrote it long before he was born. Do you not find it strange that the RCC refused to release many of the scrolls for over 60 years? Actually, the Huntington Library in California released them against the will of the vatican so all translators could finally have a chance to translate them for themselves. Even though the Essenes lived in the same area until around 65CE where jesus is said to have lived and preached, they never mention him either and from their scrolls it is abundantly apparent they kept up with everything that went on in the region and especially Jerusalem. The scrolls do mention a ‘spouter of lies’ and a ‘wicked priest’. The messiah they spoke of was past tense and had in their possession the copper scroll of Akhenaten. Many great men of learning believe the reason there is no historical ‘moses’ is because moses was either Akhenaten or his high priests, as the high priests were always schooled in the mystery schools of magic. Remember that jesus was also educated in Egypt and spoke to his disciples of the mysteries and how they are not for everyone? It is all about secret societies and astrology. The hebrews were actually the Hyksos Shepherd Kings who took over lower Egypt for quite a while until upper Egypt grew strong enough to kick them out as from all reports they were a nasty and brutal bunch. That explains the need to kill, rape and stealtheir way across the middle east. The land they claim today is not theirs and look at the slaughter they are performing on the rightful owners while the christian world cheers them on…because the bible(that they wrote) says so. Whoever penned Revelation tried to warn about those who claim to be jews but are liars of the synogogue of satan but christians have been taught to worship these demonic creatures.



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Rabbitball

posted November 4, 2010 at 5:10 pm


I don’t see anyone answering the original question: Doesn’t this argument also force the Christian to consider the possibility of other religions being accurate? By itself, the argument does allow for these other possibilities, but the benefit of the argument is that it allows for examination of religion in general, and in such an examination, the truth of God will come out.



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Kate

posted November 4, 2010 at 6:18 pm


@Rabbitball, the question is never answered and sidestepped at any costs. This OT god who admits he is a man of war is the same god in every religion, thus the constant hate and warring. Does a ‘christian’ nation show the love of any god by going into the lands of others and bombing them into submission? Does spreading the ‘faith’ involve the brutal deaths of millions of innocent people including children and infants? What this ‘christian’ nation is doing around the world is repulsive and cruel. If you follow this line of carnage for the last 100 years you will begin to see these nations are either on the line for the continuing oil pipelines or they had a valuable resource this christian nation desired. Our corporations took their factories into many of these US war ravaged nations and turned once prosperous countries into starving slave labor facilities. But hey, the good ‘christians’ can purchase those designer shoes for a few dollars less and why care about the work environment or child labor used to produce these luxuries. If only these poor heathens worshipped ‘our’ god then they too could be looked upon as humans.
Now that the table has turned and the people here are finally realizing that we no longer produce anything worth having and our jobs are being lost by the thousands per week they are not thinking about designer anything but how to put food on their tables and keep the homes they have worked hard to pay for. While they have been sitting on the pew performing like dutiful trusting sheeple their world has begun to crumble. Their bread casts upon the water is coming back home.
If that isn’t bad enough when they finally get enough and try to stand up to a government out of control they will once again be blindsided by a paid snake oil salesman who uses Romans 13 to shut them up so they can be herded into a place they think they will never see. I no longer have pity for the adults but my heart breaks for their helpless children. A complete ignorance of world history and religious history has brought all these things to pass and the people have only themselves to blame. They don’t serve a holy god, they serve themselves and it has always been so. It is silly to try to prove the bible by using the bible but that is all they have and they quip one verse after another in their worthless cut and paste jobs that never end. I have asked hundreds of people to give one instance of any eyewitness to jesus outside the bible and it can’t be done for there is none. Of course, all other revealed religions are just as blind and closed minded. I believe the god they pray to is the prince of darkness and the more they pray the more power they give to this murdering entity.
This once great nation that long ago had the love and respect of most of the world is now thought of as the great evil empire and no one hates us for our freedoms. Anyone who believes that is a damn fool. We are now facing living in our own ‘third world’ nation under a military industrial complex controlled by the hidden hand of the NWO. Keep sitting under the doctrines of men who are part of this cabal and you will reap just what you are asking for. If these people believed what jesus said they would know he did not intend for them to learn from any other man as he said “remember I have told you all things”. Men who sit under such men become the most cowardly effeminate sissys I have ever seen and it is very disturbing.
If you people have not prepared for what is soon to befall this entire nation then it is too late and I hope your faith holds out when your children are crying for food and water. Remember all the great teachers taught that any man who does not provide for his own is not worthy of life.



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Abambagibus

posted November 4, 2010 at 6:36 pm


Dear Scott, I’ve been wondering about the diameter of your circle.
Scott Bailey 10.27.10 1:22 PM
http://scotteriology.wordpress.com/
Actually, other than the fact that her argument can be easily turned on her, and she is exceedingly patronizing (“and you are a seeker of truth aren’t you?”) her argument is fundamentally flawed in that she confuses knowledge with beliefs as one and the same.
Abambagibus in response,11.04.10
From the subliminal condescension manifestly inherent in Scott Bailey’s response to the initiating spindle of this thread, one may conclude either he is not a seeker of truth or he is loathe to being asked if he is a seeker of truth or he already knows the truth anyway and therefore is in no need of searching for it. Furthermore, from his reference to the misconstruction of knowledge with belief, one may extrapolate with a measure of certainty that, if his argument be sincere, then his knowledge of whatever truth he may have found is not to be believed. If the name scotteriology is deliberately analogous to soteriology, then his antithetical humility is truly manifest. Abambagibus.



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Kate

posted November 4, 2010 at 7:04 pm


@Scott, you are more than welcome to ‘turn’ it on me but you are yet another who can offer no concrete proof of a real man named jesus. I think christians make wonderful politicians since they have perfected the art of bait and switch and answering a question with a question.
Answer this one for us.
Exodus, Chapter 34, verse 1:
And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
Here god clearly says he will write the words that were on the first tables that moses broke. No one ever saw the first set and only had the word of a killer. No one saw the replacement set either as this god instructed moses to build a second ark and place them in it. Also, it says god will write the words but as you see he does not, he dictates and moses writes. Are these the same words as the first set? Only to an insane person.
Ex. 34
17. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
18. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
19. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
20. But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty. [**42]
21. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
22. And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year’s end.
23. Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.
24. For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the Lord thy God thrice in the year.
25. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the Passover be left unto the morning.
26. The first of the firstiruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother’s milk.
……this set of commandments are the only ones that are called the Ten Commandments.
(28. And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And He wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.)
The people never saw these either or they would have known moses was a liar. He built a second ark and placed them in it and forbid anyone to touch it.
These are all about greedy priests and heaping abundance to themselves. I think this is the set that needs to be hung in public to show what a gross repulsive control system this religion truly is. No one wants to even talk about these. Human sacrifice is repugnant to any decent person.
The first list of commandments given to Moses were more than 10, there were at least 16 but they were whittled down to fit the story we like to tell because the second set is more than an embarassment to the christian world. It only proves what a lying and greedy bunch the controlling priests truly were.
I also think the punishments for breaking these laws should also be posted right alongside……DEATH!
What is wrong with healthy debate or do you always seek to kill the messenger? What are you afraid of?



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True Believer

posted November 5, 2010 at 12:18 am


I am willing to bet that no matter what proof or logic or sane comment that someone might provide Kate, she would find fault with it. That in itself is not wrong, but when someone has so much hate and disdain, they don’t see clearly. Still your heart and the truth will reveal itself.



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g

posted November 5, 2010 at 1:24 am


Well, this ‘argument’ is just a obfuscating smokescreen for that old argument that essentially says : You can’t prove God doesn’t exist”.
This of course is an argument fallacy as it is incumbent on the one making the assertion to prove to the other that assertion.
In this case, the nephew, believes his assertion and did not try to assert it to someone else. So the nephew is under no obligation to prove ‘God does not exist’. The aunt needs to prove God exists.
The absurdity of the circle image is that, one can draw a circle outside of the boys knowledge and label it ‘Pink dragons’, and since he cannot prove they don’t exist, then there is a real possibility that Pink dragons exist. With this type of argument you can see how ridiculous and complicated our lives could become if we thus entertained every crazy idea because we couldn’t prove it didn’t exist.
In reality, the boy can expand his knowledge to include math and science (which many times conflicts with religious beliefs, in which case she would be drawing more circles to get the boy to give up science)
If you believe in the God of the Bible, then you have to accept that the ‘info comes, by the Holy Spirit, and not by debate and logic tricks (the apostle Paul even addresses that nonsense)
It is such religious Hubris that even engages in these kinds of fallacy arguments in order to ‘win’ an atheist over. I imagine there is a kind of unholy pride that is gained by being able to pat yourself on the back and brag that you found the gimmick that can win atheists over.
Probably just living your life as Christ taught , getting off the arrogant soapbox, and praying and trusting the Holy Spirit to do the work is a better plan. But that won’t happen, too much hubris fills the hearts and minds of believers who really don’t have ‘love’ for the lost, just some imagined congratulations that will be awarded them for producing the results, which of course aren’t valid results, those kinds of ridiculous conversions don’t really take anyway.



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Kate

posted November 5, 2010 at 1:31 am


@True B…..spoken just like a true arrogant self-righteous bigot. You hate anyone who does not worship your demon god. You are the one filled with hate and judgment. Everything I have posted can be found in your ‘unholy’ book and all you have to do is read it. I have seen no proof or logic posted and you sure have not provided any. You use the same tired old tactics christians use when they cannot answer simple questions regarding the book you call the word of god. You begin to insult and rip others to pieces in order to avoid the topic. It is most likely the word of god but it is the word of the god of this world and that is why you can’t explain the glaring errors by the thousands or the horrors and pure filth it contains. I do not have hate for anything except lies and deceit which all manmade religions are filled with.
Since you claim to be able to offer proof, show us where anyone as a contemporary of jesus ever wrote about him other than the four gospels by four anonymous authors. There should have been plenty but I will settle for one sentence. Also, please explain the second set of commandments that your god promised would be the exact same wording as the first.
Do you believe your bible god knows everything from beginning to end? Do you believe your god knows the intention of the heart? Do you believe he is ever present everywhere? I have a reason for these questions. Do you believe your bible god allowed his people to sacrifice humans to him and he accepted those human sacrifices?
The next time you address me at least have the backbone to talk to me and not about me.



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Dan O'Reilly

posted November 5, 2010 at 1:02 pm


The title is a little misleading. It isn’t evangelizing an atheist, it’s simply asking someone to be open to possibilities. I do like Ms. Hunt’s civil approach. Kate, you might check that out. Why are you so mad? Most arguments over the existence of God are fruitless. No one wins (unless they were the high school debate team captain). :) Ms. Hunt’s call to be open and simply examine existing knowledge seems reasonable to me.



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JACK FLORES

posted November 5, 2010 at 2:22 pm


PROOF OF GOD EXISTENCE
A sincere FAITH does not need proof or fact to substantiate it. From time immemorial the ancient inhabitants of the Earth are divided in the existence of GOD up until this current epoch. GOD has given us FREE WILL to decide whether to follow righteous or evil deeds.
No man has seen GOD at anytime. But TRUE BELIEVER believes in its existence because of FAITH. GOD exists though cannot be seen by the naked eye. There is strong evidence that there is GOD! Who created the universe the moon, stars, the planets in the outer space most specifically the SUN that shines infinitely? The BIG BANG? That’s just a THEORY by scientists who have never actually seen with their own eyes how these things came into existence. It is GOD who created everything impossible to man. These are HIS creations a FULL PROOF OF GOD’S EXISTENCE.



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JACK FLORES

posted November 5, 2010 at 5:28 pm


THE HOLY BIBLE
The HOLY BIBLE is a collection of books written ORIGINALLY by ancient personalities who believe in GOD. They are inspired men who love GOD and the earliest witnesses to prove impliedly that GOD EXISTS. Numerous generations have come to pass, there maybe error/s in the translation. True or not, to this day no living person can testify to the AUTHENTICITY of the book, but by STRONG FAITH IN GOD AT ALL THAT COUNTS. The HOLY BIBLE deals with holiness, righteousness and about the KINGDOM OF GOD. The word of GOD is not debatable, but it is there for us to follow as guidance. Living with the WORD OF GOD faithfully gives us comfort in our physical life and bring us to EVERLASTING LIFE after the death of our mortal body. THIS IS MY FAITH AND SEEK NO PROOF WHATSOEVER.



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LINDA NANA BUMBLEBEE

posted November 5, 2010 at 6:03 pm


LORD, I PRAY YOU GIVE KATE AN EXPERIENCE THAT WILL CEASE HER ANGER & BRING THE SEED OF LOVE INTO HER HARDENED HEART/MINDSET…YOU ARE A LOVING MERCIFUL PATIENT GOD, & I’M ASKING FROM THE LOVE THAT IS WITHIN ME, BECAUSE YOU RESIDE THERE SUPPLYING IT, THAT YOU TOUCH HER SOUL LORD AS ONLY YOU CAN TO ALLOW HER TO SEE THAT FORK IN THE ROAD & MAKE THE U-TURN SHE NEEDS TO BE TRULY “SET FREE” IN A NEW LIGHT OF REALITY…
YOUR SECOND COMMANDMENTS I BELIEVE ARE:TO LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH “ALL” YOUR HEART, AND TO LOVE THEY NEIGHBOR AS THY SELF…WITH A HEART FULL OF LOVE FOR YOU KATE…MAY OUR GOD WHO ART IN HEAVEN GIVE YOU THE PEACE, JOY, & RESTING COMFORT YOU CAN RECEIVE FROM TRULY GETTING TO KNOW HIM THAT GOVERNS FROM ABOVE 24/7 WHEN WE CHOOSE HIM TO… LORD YOU SAY IN PSALMS THAT ONLY A “FOOL” SAYS THERE IS NO GOD…GOD, THANK YOU FORBREATHING LIFE INTO EACH & EVERYONE OF US, FOR YOU KNEW US BEFORE WE WERE IN THE WOMB & HAVE PURPOSE FOR US ALL OR YOU WOULD NEVER HAVE GIVEN EACH ONE OF US LIFE & LIFE MOST ABUNDANTLY WHEN WE “UN-FOOLISHLY” DECIDE TO CHOOSE YOU…I LOVE THE DAY I GOT TO KNOW YOU…YOU HAVE MADE MY LIFE BEAUTIFUL NO MATTER WHAT TRIALS THAT CAN POP UP, YOU ARE THERE WITH GUIDEANCE TO GET THROUGH THE STORMS…I RECOMMAND YOU TO EVERYONE WELL OFF OR NOT…JUST TRY HIM OUT…GET TO KNOW HIM…THEN DECIDE BEFORE YOU FOOLISHLY SAY THERE IS NO GOD…HIS HEART IS PAINED WHEN YOU DENY HIM BECAUSE HE KNOWS THE BLESSINGS HE HAS IN STORE FOR YOUR LIFE BUT FOOLISHLY TURN THEM DOWN W/UN- BELIEFE….
JOHN 3:16
PROV 3:5-6
HOSEA 4:6
ROMANS 12:2
EPH 3:19
ISAIAH 53:5
ISAIAH 54:17…JUST TO GET YOU STARTED…WITH LOVE, LINDA…NANA BUMBLEBEE…



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JACK FLORES

posted November 6, 2010 at 2:12 am


SHORT COMMENTARY
WE, GOD FEARING PEOPLE CAN EASILY RECOGNIZE PERSONS WITHOUT GOD BY THE WORDS OF THEIR MOUTH. WE PRAY FOR THESE PEOPLE TO FIND THE RIGHT PATH TOWARD SALVATION OF THEIR SOULS. LEAD THEM OH LORD TO FIND THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND BLESS THEM WITH YOUR OUTPOURING LOVE TO REALIZE YOUR PRESENCE IN THEIR MINDS AND IN THEIR HEARTS.



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Kate

posted November 6, 2010 at 5:37 pm


What a bunch of hypocrites. Don’t you morons ever read your own ‘holy’ book? Does it not say to enter into your private prayer closet and pray only where god can hear? Does it not say that those who pray in public to be seen and heard of men are nothing but fakers? I guess that tells us what you flowery mouthed devils really are. You appear to be one thing but your actions give you away. Do NOT pray to your demon using my name. You can pray all you want for yourselves but do not inflict your hocus pocus black magic on those who do not want it nor ask for it. You can believe in flying pigs for all I care and you would most likely come out better for it.
The three largest and most powerful religions in this world all stem from the myth of Abraham. They are also the most vicious and deadly institutions ever created by man. The twisted insane zealots of these miserable bloodthirsy cults are the reason this world will never see peace. I wish we could ship everyone of you off to another planet where you could fight to the death and wipe one another from the universe and maybe the rest of us could begin to heal this planet and be rid of warmongers for once and for all.
Do you people realize that typing in all caps is such a lazy way to type, not to mention childish?! Jack, I bet you wear panties and wiggle when you walk. The churches are filled to the brim with prissy little men just like you. They either want the preacher or someone’s child. Reading your statements makes me sick to my stomach. Linda Bumblebutt has shown her hypocrisy for doing exactly what her god said NOT to do.
The bible is filled with morality? You have never read that work of porn. Abraham was the first dead beat dad and active adulterer. He threw out his own bastard son because his bitch wife was jealous. He was the first pimp and prostituted his own wife in order to receive booty from the innocent Pharoah. He did this twice. They were common cheating cons. If any being came to me and said he was god and wanted me to prove my love by sliting the throat of one of my children and then roasting them alive I would tell him to kiss my ass. If you say that is the true Creator you are a liar. Moses led the most vicious and filthy bunch ever conceived. Under his orders they butchered every living soul in their path. They robbed them of their possessions and raped the women and little girls. This god demanded and received human sacrifice and loved to smell the burning flesh. If you say this is the true Creator, you are a liar. No decent human could read most of the OT to a child. Anyone who would do that should have their children removed. It is scary as hell living on a planet filled with morons who follow either of these deadly religions. HYPOCRITES!
No man has seen GOD at anytime??????? Once again, the bible contradicts itself. Moses saw god face to face. God sat down face to face with pimp Abraham and stuffed his face.
Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.
Oh, let us not forget Lot who raped his own viring daughters. They did not get him drunk. What quickie liquor store did they stop off at during their emergency flight from Sodom to get enough wine to get a grown man so drunk he didn’t know his children were raping him? Any medical doctor will tell you it is impossible to function sexually if a man is completely passed out. In the good book everything is always the fault of the woman. This story piece of dirt is the same godly man who offered his innocent little girls to an entire city of perverts and rapists to do with as they please, including murder. I would do anything in my power to protect a guest in my home but if it came to them or my children it would without a doubt be them and they would have to fend for themselves and I would wish them luck and I threw their butts out the door. How much sense does it make for Lot to worry about all powerful angels in the first place. Are you all that stupid? What was such a godly man doing in a city filled with perversion? What happened to his vast herds he arrived with and all the other people? Herdsmen and herds do NOT dwell within a walled city. Fools. Not only is there historical evidence for jesus or any of his disciples or Paul, but there is NO evidence for abraham, moses, jacob or any of the other OT patriarchs…..none. There has never been one surviving original manuscript of any of the 66 books of the bible, not one. They all mysteriously disappeared, how convenient and what a coincidence. All there is are copies of copies of copies. There have been hundreds of thousands of redactions and omissions. All one needs to see that is read the oldest versions and the hundreds of newer ones. It is a fake and the Creator of this world had nothing to do with such a book and the only true blasphemy is to put the Creator as having anything to do with such a perverted work. No wonder you people are so insane.
Get your story straight.



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Jason Boyett

posted November 6, 2010 at 11:28 pm


@Kate:
You’ve made your point. I’m pretty liberal with comments, but I just deleted your last one. Not because of the content, but because you’re being a jerk. I ask for respect and civility among my commenters and between my commenters, and you’re crossing a line. Comment all you want, but be respectful…even to those you disagree with. This isn’t a place for personal attacks.
Thanks.
jb



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Kate

posted November 7, 2010 at 12:35 am


Once again…so much for freedom of speech and our Constitution and Bill of Rights. If it doesn’t feed the christian agenda then to hell with it. Those who get offended should be.
When you wake up some morning and find all of your rights stripped away then you will get a taste of your own medicine. When christians offend it is perfectly OK but when others reject their offences it is a mortal sin. You are not fair and just as much a hypocrite as the others who hang eternal hell over the heads of anyone who dares disagree. I wouldn’t spit on a god who could even think up such a horrid punishment. You are indeed the children of your father and his deeds are your deeds. Gee, thanks for being fair. Keep your one-sided site and pretend to be OPEN. No one even tried to explain the obvious errors and filth in the bible. Not to mention the glaring errors. Good old child raping yahweh wins again.



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JACK FLORES

posted November 7, 2010 at 1:41 am


@Kate
For your information, I am a college graduate and CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN. For the sake of discussion, you can never pair a BELIEVER FROM A NON BELIEVER. Please try to learn to control your temper. I did never mention any person in any of my commentaries, not even your name. But why are you acting not in a normal way? We are here to fairly present our own faith or belief, not to express our emotional anger. I
The reason why I capitalize all letters is for people with eye problem like me reading small letters. I am sorry Kate if that irritates you.



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JACK FLORES

posted November 7, 2010 at 2:43 am


@Kate
I stick to my statement that “NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANYTIME”. I know Kate you are reading the HOLY BIBLE though I understand we have a different belief or faith in GOD. Please continue reading EXODUS chapter 33:11 down the line to clearly understand it. The NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANYTIME is referred to seeing GOD completely. Moses even in his lifetime cannot describe how GOD looks like. At one time Moses communicate with GOD in the wilderness in a burning bush without seeing his face, but just hear HIS voice.
Religions of the world are man made with their own doctrine, teaching policy and guideline according to understanding and interpretation of the HOLY BIBLE. One can never pinpoint a religion mentioned in the HOLY BIBLE and anybody adheres to a particular religion would claim “this is the true religion” Other religions outside CHRISTIANITY have their own holy book. I believe CHRISTIANISM has the biggest denomination due to the interpretation of the HOLY BIBLE. Some verses are hard and difficult to interpret especially the BOOK OF REVELATION. Reading the word of GOD does not need to prove it to believe. A strong FAITH IN GOD that matters for BELIEVERS.
I can feel Kate you do not believe and trust the book of HOLY BIBLE. Though you don’t trust GOD, I recommend to please read the whole book of THE NEW TESTAMENT. Remember I’m not convincing you to convert into Christian. Just feel who are true Christians.



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truth

posted November 7, 2010 at 7:02 am


to Kate We know what you are talking about, we were all like you at one time. Acts the 8th chapter with the ethopian unuch shows us Gods way ofteaching us to understanding his word, we cannot do it on our own. first we need to ask God to help us understand his word then he will send someone to you like Phillip did to the unuch, who will help you get to know and understand his word, The reason that Moses could talk to God but not see him was because God had told him no human man could see his face and live. he placed him in a ditch and covered over him as he passed by him, he told moses that he would show him the back of his glory. And that alone made Moses face look as thouth he had been exposed to an over dose of radiation poison, he had to wear a veil so as not to frighten the other people.



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Jason Boyett

posted November 7, 2010 at 11:46 am


Disabling comments on this post. Let’s move on, everybody.



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