O Me of Little Faith

O Me of Little Faith


Harold Camping and Rapture Sadness

posted by Jason Boyett

Christian radio host Harold Camping says Jesus is coming back in nine months: May 21, 2011. Then the world will end, according to his calculations, on October 21, 2011. He’s been announcing this on his Family Radio broadcasts for several years.

The good news is that we won’t have to deal with that pesky 2012 Mayan calendar apocalypse.

The bad news is that people are taking Camping seriously.

The Colorado Springs Gazette tells of a woman there who paid $1,200 to buy advertising space for bus benches in the area to help get the message out.

rapturebusbench.jpg

Marie Exley is unemployed but feels it’s important that people have time to prepare for Christ’s imminent return…even though the prediction makes her sad.

From the article:

Exley has bittersweet feelings about Camping’s prediction.

“There are things I felt I always wanted to do — get married, have a
kid, travel more,” she said. “But it’s not about what I want out of
life. It’s about what God wants.”

Since apparently it’s rapture week here at O Me of Little Faith…and since I got my start as a writer by making fun of End-Times mania, I guess I could spend the next few paragraphs waxing sarcastically about Camping and his failed end-of-the-world predictions and the dumb, complicated mathematical code he uses to arrive at them. After all, he’s been playing up this 2011 date for several years, since Jesus failed to come back when Camping originally predicted it in 1994. (Camping says it’s because he made a mathematical error with that date, but now he’s corrected it. Score one for calculators.)

But today is one of those days when I just don’t find any humor in this kind of thing. Today, Camping’s brand of apocalypticism just makes me sad. His super-confident, trust-me-I’m-an-expert teaching causes people like Exley to spend money she doesn’t have on useless advertising, and it makes her think that this is her last year on earth. It depresses her now, a little — she’s missing out on marriage and a family — and it sets her up for disappointment later, when Jesus doesn’t come back next May.

I’m already disappointed and sad at this kind of reaction, because not only does it play on people’s fears, but it manipulates them because of their hope.

Camping himself has little to lose. He’s an old man. If he’s right about Christ’s return, he’s already lived a full life and he’ll be hailed as a prophet. Camping, FTW! But if he’s wrong — which he WILL be — well, he’ll get through it just like he did in 1994. He’ll blame the math or something and eventually retire. The sooner, the better. He’ll survive.

But people like Exley have much more to lose. They’ll spend this next year in limbo. Why get a job if Jesus is coming back in May? Why plan for the future? Why save anything for retirement, or fall in love, or start a family if the world’s about to fall into chaos? She’ll suspend her life until May 21, 2011, and when Jesus fails to adhere to Camping’s timetable, she’ll have to start over…spiritually, emotionally, and culturally. She’ll look like an idiot. She’ll have wasted a good chunk of money. She’ll have put her hope in something and see it fall to pieces. 

Camping’s faith will survive the failed prediction, just like it did in 1994. But what about Exley’s faith? What will happen to the faith of his thousands of listeners who have invested their hope (and money) into this scenario?

We can laugh all we want at the stupidity of End-Times date-setters who are wrong. They’ve been wrong for two thousand years, and they’ll be wrong in the future.

But it’s hard to laugh at the gullible people who believe them. If you want to be mean, you can call them mindless sheep. But don’t forget that they’re also a kind of victim: Victims of hope, victims of religious fervor, and victims of certainty. 

[HT: Unreasonable Faith]



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andy roller

posted August 12, 2010 at 10:28 am


Good post Jason. As you know we’ve had the date-setters here in Amarillo as well and it’s the same story. People have given all their money away, maxed out credit cards, and made themselves look like fools. I feel compassion mixed with frustration toward the victims, but struggle with all out anger toward the synthetic “teachers/ pastors” who should know better, or who use the fear to control people.



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Ken Grant

posted August 12, 2010 at 10:30 am


What’s truly sad is that this kind of warped theology that we’ve had coursing through predominantly American Protestant/Evangelical circles since the early 1800s has led to more unnecessary bloodshed and paranoia than we can imagine (I place responsibility for the lives lost at the Branch Davidian and Oklahoma City tragedies at the feet of those who have perpetrated this theology).
I used to state that the greatest theological arguments in society were based on the views of the distant past (creation/evolution debates) and the distant future (Armageddon/end times) – and that it really didn’t matter what someone believed about either, because it didn’t really change how you live and act in the here and now.
I have had to change that view.
Now I realize that if an entire people group honestly believes that the world is going to end in their lifetime, then (a) they are deliberately sabotaging their future and their children’s future and (b) they are more inclined to perpetrate policies that would encourage destruction (i.e. wars in the middle east) and (c) they are suspect of any person or organization that is trying to solve problems and create a better future.
For those who truly believe the teachings of Camping, Lindsey, et al. – I just have to ask, when Jesus talked about separating the sheep from the goats, or in any teaching about end times from scripture, are there any bonus points given out for those who figured out the right date for the end of the world? Just a thought.
Yes, Jason, this is sad stuff indeed.



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vanilla

posted August 12, 2010 at 11:07 am


Too right. It is sad. To Ken’s question. Not only no points, but I believe Jesus taught that only the Father knew the day and hour.



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Charlie's Church of Christ

posted August 12, 2010 at 11:24 am


We Can Know (dot) com – that is hilarious. For people who value scripture so highly you think they wouldn’t contradict it and override it…



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memarie lane

posted August 12, 2010 at 11:37 am


People like this guy virtually destroyed my childhood. My parents were pretty extreme. I read the entire Bible before I was 6, and Revelations was on constant repeat. I would wake up in a panic in the middle of the night and run to check to make sure my parents hadn’t been raptured without me, that the water still ran clear in the bathroom, that the moon still glowed silver. I refuse to read the Left Behind books and their ilk. There’s a good reason Jesus didn’t specify his return date. Imagine all the people… waiting until May 20, 2011 to ask forgiveness for their sins. The world would be an endless Carnival, and Lent would be a lot shorter that’s for dang sure…



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fredxr2d2

posted August 12, 2010 at 11:43 am


Jason, I’d like to offer one correction: if movies have taught us anything, it is that the end of the world is the best time to fall in love.



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Jonathan Chang

posted August 12, 2010 at 2:33 pm


Sometimes I just don’t get how people can say they know when Jesus is coming back. I mean, seriously, how can you misinterpret Jesus when he says, “Only my Father knows.”
And then sometimes I think people do this kind of thing for attention and publicity.



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Rick Gebauer

posted August 12, 2010 at 3:08 pm


Jason, I so appreciate the way you treated this subject today. It would have been so easy to play with the sad humor of those who are making these prediction. Instead you brought focus to the honestly deceived and it was convicting for me. I don’t know that I’ll ever read an article on some end-times prediction and think the same way.
Not Christians being stupid, but rather, people being hurt by hope.
Thanks for that.



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Jessica Gavin

posted August 12, 2010 at 4:00 pm


That is so depressing. I couldn’t imagine believing that our Savior would return soon only to be incredibly disappointed (and probably embarrassed) when it didn’t happen. This article took a topic I would usually make the subject of my joke, and instead make the subject of my prayers. Thanks for writing it.



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ShannonF

posted August 12, 2010 at 6:05 pm


Hi Jason –
This is off topic, but your post does bring to mind another issue that I struggle with regarding my faith, or lack thereof: “…it’s not about what I want out of life. It’s about what God wants.”It doesn’t matter if I’m happy because life is not about me, it’s about serving God and bringing glory to Him. We Americans are brought up with the “right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” mindset. But for many Christians,and perhaps rightly so (Acts 17:11), our lives are not our own. Yet, God also says “delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart.” Conflicting information? Perhaps a topic for another day.



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Headless Unicorn Guy

posted August 12, 2010 at 7:34 pm


I got my head messed up BAD in the Seventies by The Gospel According to Hal Lindsay. (Remember him? All The Prophecies are Being Fulfilled Even as We Speak? Ten Nations in the European Common Market = Ten Horns of Daniel? We May Not Have a 1978, Or Even a 1977?) I didn’t stop having flashbacks like a ‘Nam Vet until around 1988, and I still cannot look out a kitchen window in a certain direction.
My writing partner also got burned out, up to Edgar Whisenhaunt. (Remember him? 88 Reasons the Rapture WILL Happen in 1988!? Followed the next year by the sequel, 89 Reasons the Rapture WILL Happen in 1989!) He now tells me that John Nelson Darby and Hal Lindsay single-handedly DESTROYED Protestant Christianity in America.
Because when The World Ends Tomorrow and It’s All Gonna Burn, you’re not going to make any plans beyond the immediate moment. You’re not going to dare great things, only hide in your Christian hidey-hole and keep your nose Squeeky-Clean to pass God’s Litmus Test and get beamed up. And when the future that should never have come to pass does, you WILL find yourself Left Behind — just not in the way you thought.
Can you tell I’ve been burned BAD by Grinning Apocalyptism?



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Headless Unicorn Guy

posted August 12, 2010 at 7:43 pm


Good post Jason. As you know we’ve had the date-setters here in Amarillo as well and it’s the same story. People have given all their money away, maxed out credit cards, and made themselves look like fools. — Andy Roller
I think I can top that one. Here’s the two most over-the-top Rapture Scare stories I’ve run across:
The guy over at Cerulean Sanctum has related that during the Weisenhaunt Rapture Scare of 1988, most of the student body at a nearby Bible College got married en masse to beat Weisenhaunt’s date. Twenty years later, he wonders how many of those couples are still married.
And for the REAL topper: Also sometime during in the Eighties, there was a major Rapture Scare in Korea. (I think it was called the “Ugo Scare”.) According to the stories that filtered out about it, some women had abortions before The Date to make sure their fetus wouldn’t weigh them down too much to rise up to Heaven. Abortions.



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Kathryn

posted August 12, 2010 at 9:34 pm


Like a couple of others here, i was raised in a church that was constantly predicting that the Lord would soon return. My SS teacher when i was 10 was sure he’d be here in the next 5 years & i remember thinking, “Oh, not before i get to high school!” That church didn’t predict particular dates, but they were sure it would be soon . . . also that we Christians would be persecuted & we had to be ready.
Did you ever read about the camp (10 or 15 years ago now) that woke the kids in the middle of the night & told them the US had been invaded & that they had to renounce God? It was a stunt, trying to “prepare” the kids for when they would have to face torture for following Jesus. I think they were sued for this stunt.
I’m surprised my childhood church didn’t think of this first. They had me so petrified that my first year living in CA (on the flight path) had me ducking at every plane that flew over, sure that a bomb would be dropped during the invasion.
I don’t read the Left Behind series either. I want nothing to do with that . . . stuff.



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Charlie's Church of Christ

posted August 13, 2010 at 2:39 am


this is probably one of my favorite posts you’ve ever done Jason.
and I’m not sucking up.
Thanks for helping me not simply be resentful toward the rapture types.



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Cecelia Dowdy

posted August 13, 2010 at 8:38 am


This post reminds me of the numerous false prophesies from the Jehovah’s Witnesses! Brings back memories for me.



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Headless Unicorn Guy

posted August 13, 2010 at 10:29 am


This post reminds me of the numerous false prophesies from the Jehovah’s Witnesses! Brings back memories for me. — Cecelia Dowdy
Anyone here old enough to remember the 1975 Rosh Hashanah Rapture Scare? It was on ALL the Christian radio stations, apparently being preached from every Born-Again pulpit. It Will Happen at sunset in Jerusalem ushering in that Rosh Hashanah (whose year numerologically translates to the same consonant cluster as “Messiah”), US/USSR global thermonuclear war to commence immediately upon Rapture, the King of Spain PROVEN (from SCRIPTURE!) to be The Antichrist, Seven Years Tribulation choreographed almost down to the minute, SCRIPTURE SCRIPTURE SCRIPTURE SCRIPTURE SCRIPTURE?
That was in September of 1975. I remember it well, seared into my brain by the worst case of Left Behind Fever in my life.
It is now August 2010. Some years after-the-fact (during my Take Your God And Shove It/Get Two Beers and Jump period), it came out that this Rapture Scare was originally started (and The Date set) by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, though nobody at the time would admit to it.



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Cecelia Dowdy

posted August 13, 2010 at 9:27 pm


@Unicorn
Yes, 1975 was one of the JW false prophecy years. I barely remember it though. I was a kid.



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Karl Laszlo

posted August 18, 2010 at 2:04 pm


Hello:
Back about 1960 a sociologist studied a UFO cult that expected the end of things. (Wrote a book called ‘When Prophecy Fails’) well the day came…….and went. NADA. The chief prophetess claimed that the cult’s piety had saved the world. In any case the cult lost a few followers, but those that remained had even *stronger* faith. The technical term, I believe, is cognitive dissonance.
In due time Harold will claim to have miscounted the number of semicolons in Daniel, or some such. And his game will go on. Sadly.



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Vivi

posted August 22, 2010 at 11:31 pm


I listen to Family Radio occaisonally and I study the bible. I cannot figure out Camping’s timeline calculations, and I stopped trying to figure it out because I realized no matter which way I turned, it still came down to me having to believe Camping’s date of the world, or his understanding of the date of the flood, or his understanding of what certain numbers mean.
This does not mean his understanding is wrong, I just did not want to spend all my time studying his findings – to figure out the truth about God and his possible return. Studying Camping’s data was taking more time than my reading the bible and spending time in prayer and reflection with the Creator himself. That just did not seem right to me that Camping’s material would upstage God’s word. Therefore, I backed off trying to conclude if Camping was right or not about 2011, and I focused instead on some teachings he encourages all people to do. Read the bible, and ask God to open your eyes. All understanding is in the Father’s hand anyway.
In this approach, I realized the key was, if I was willing to spend quality time in God’s word on my own, or was just going to coast until 5/2011 to see what happened. God knows our intents.
I will say this about Camping, however. Whether he is right or wrong, I have delved deeper into the end time scriptures and I have learned 3 very enlightening and very interesting things that I did not know after 40+ years of church membership.
If you believe that there is a Second Coming of Christ scheduled for some time in the future, at which time God will judge the world, I would off 3 scriptures to study. Read them over and over, very slowly. Research well known Commentary’s on these verses (Matthew Henry, Burton Hoffman, are 2 names that come to mind), and you might find yourself considering some of Camping’s points or delving into the bibles references to End Time happening’s overall.
The 3 scriptures that cause me to contemplate the end time topic are”
2 Thess. 2:1-12. These verses teach what happens right before Christ returns.
1 Thess. 5:1-9. These verses may have been misunderstood for centuries for an obvious reason, but when read them, ask and answer the questions below and see if you are able to completely close the door on what they may – or may not be saying.
Daniel 12: 1-13 (esp. vs. 4&9). This chapter in my bible is titled: “The Time of the End”. It refers to an increase in understanding before the 2nd coming. Many believe it is an increase in understanding of the end-time prophecies – which would support how much of what had not been understood in the bible before now, would now be understood.
In closing, when you read these scriptures, ask and answer these questions below and see if you do not feel somewhat different about the scriptures than you have previously. I, for one, had certainly read these verses before and not felt the significance of them then, as I do now. Now when I read them, I shudder at what they are saying. Identify whom God is referring to, and the time in which he is saying these things will occur:
Read 1 Thess 5:1-9, then ask and answer these questions:
1 – What day are these vs. talking about (see vs. 1 & 2)
2 – Who says “peace & safety” in these verses?
3 – Sudden destruction comes upon whom?
4 – Who does the scripture say is NOT in darkness, and thereby is not caught unaware or is overtaken by sudden destruction? (see vs. 4); which must indicate some knowledge that those who were caught unaware did not have.
5- When God (the bible) instructs his children to “WATCH” what are you watching for? In addition, if you are WATCHING for something, are you not eventually supposed to see what you have been asked to WATCH for?
God clearly tells us over and over again to watch for signs of his return, and so, we have to expect at some point, we will see these signs and thereby know the time is at hand. Moreover, when you see what God has been instructing you to watch for, what are the instructions he gives us to do/execute?
Read 2 Thess 2:1-12, then ask and answer these questions:
1- What is the topic of these verses? (see vs. 2 & 3)
2 – What does the bible say will have RIGHT BEFORE CHRIST’s RETURN?
(see vs. 3);
3- Who does it say has been restraining the son of perdition? And who does it say has been restraining the son of perdition UNTIL HE HIMSELF WAS REMOVED? (see vs. 7).
4-How could all of this be occurring? (vs. 9 &10).
5- Who are those deceived — and how are they deceived? (vs. 9 & 10).
6- And who is behind this entire very sad occurrence? (vs. 11).
7- What precisely occurred — and why did this occur? (vs. 11).
Renowned bible teachers and commentators Matthew Henry, from the 16 & 1700’s explanation of these scriptures is as interesting today as it probably was in their era.



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Humble

posted August 27, 2010 at 2:34 pm


May 21, 2011 is Judgment Day. Pray God opens your “Eyes”. No one can argue their way into Heaven. Either your saved or your not and no one can get themselves saved. The work of salvation is 100% Christ’s.



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Believer of Christ

posted August 31, 2010 at 12:02 am


It’s just a false teacher bringing out false prophecy. The Bible says in Matthew 25:13 that “…no man knoweth the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.” Don’t listen to him.



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Rachael

posted August 31, 2010 at 5:45 am


If you dont listen to him, you will be caught off guard and that day will come upon you like a theif in the night.
Harold Camping is a True Believer, he is not a Prophet, you cannot just discount what he is trying to show others what the bible says.What he is saying isnt some vision or dream he had from GOd, it is solid evidence presented throughout the Bible by dates and ages of the people and events in it. He never said with certaintly that 1994 was the date, he said it was a strong possibility. That doesnt mean you can just throw the baby out with the bath water now.
ASk for a FREE copy of “Adam When” from http://www.FamilyRadio.com to see for yourself the timeline that is presented in the Bible for our own knowledge to prove God does operate on a timeline throughout history.
If you dont take the time to investigate, you’ll have no excuses when that day does overtake you like a theif in the night.



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Stella

posted August 31, 2010 at 10:04 am


Rachael, the point is that the Bible says we should be ready, period. That’s just as true on September 1, 2010, as it will be on May 21, 2011. There will be some people really hurting, disillusioned, and discouraged on May 22 next year.



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BlueDogma

posted August 31, 2010 at 9:30 pm


From the skeptic’s pov, Camping is simply misguided by old stories contained in the collection of odd writings generally referred to as the Bible. If one believes that these stories are somehow connected to a supreme being, then it is understandable that person will assign deep meaning to the various fragments that appear to be “historical” in some sense. Whatever the Bible may be, it isn’t a history text, and so any “calculation” based on the timing and order of events won’t mean anything, even if one believed that such calculations could be correct if the Biblical dates were absolutely accurate. Unlike the atheist, skeptics generally don’t take the position that God doesn’t exist, but that Religion doesn’t provide any understanding of God. Camping’s odd and failed calculations based on the Bible simply make the skeptic’s point.



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iGreg

posted September 3, 2010 at 11:02 pm


Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Ecclesiastes 8:5 Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man’s heart discerneth both time and judgment.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.



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Gregory Lewis

posted September 4, 2010 at 2:12 am


Anyone who uses a bible quote to support their current thoughts about ANYTHING has no sense of reality. It’s far past time where people should place the god of Abraham in the same category as Zeus, Apollo, Venus, Jupiter, Poseidon, Thor and Osiris. Jesus, if her ever lived at all, died 2,000 years ago. He is not coming back, ever.



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Vivi

posted September 4, 2010 at 11:20 pm


TO ALL THOSE WHO SHRUG OFF 5/21/11 AS BEING THE END DATE……
One question, do you disregard the date because you belive “no one knows the day or the hour?”….., or, have you checked out some of the scriptures and the dates Camping has given and determined them to be incorrect?
I don’t know if Camping has got it right or not, but I am surprised how many people automatically deem the date as false without any examination of the evidence he says proved it is the date.
It falls in that category of simply believing what we have believed int he past — simply because we have believed it in the past.
We/man, have been wrong about things in the past.
The world is flat
There is no such thing as gravity
Hitler was not a mass murderer
Blacks are not quite human
Jews are not to be trusted
Women are not as intelligent
Just because we have always been taught “no one knows he day or the hour” is no reason to just hold onto to that teaching — if there is a new light or new way to read those same verses.
Please don’t just “go automatic” on this idea and kick it out of park just because it is different from what you have been taught in the past. Look at all of 1 Thess. 5:1-6. If you take these verses, and add Daniel 12:1-7, and factor in that God is repeatedly telling us to “WATCH”, you get an idea, that He is telling us that we-will-see-and-know that the end is here. Why else would he over and over tell us to WATCH? When you “WATCH” for something, you are being told that you will ultimately see what you are watching for.



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Webminotaur

posted September 5, 2010 at 8:49 am


I find it strange that all the posts so far zero in on the wrong aspect of the original comments.
I agree that date-setters are wrong. Partly because of what appears an inherant error in datings, but mostly because of they do not read all the predictions. A more careful analysis of the predictions in the Bible would show the end-time is based on world conditions, not a specific timetable.
But what you seem to be emphasizing more is the effect these date-setters have on others. I remember reading about the big fiasco in the 20s that lead to the founding of the Seventh Day Adventists. People then also sold everything, quit their jobs, and got ready for the return of Jesus. Many went to the roofs of the tallest buildings in their towns to be as close to heaven as they could get so they would not have so far to travel. When Jesus did not return as predicted, hundreds jumped off the roofs to their deaths. The others had to return to their families, friends, neighbors, and others in shame. Those involved with promoting the date survived. They, too, claimed a miscalculation or misinterpretation of what/where the event was to take place. They survived to further their work, while their followers suffered.
I also wish there was some way to reach these misled people. But just as before, they are convinced the date-setters are right. I am suspect there will be those who will think they have been left behind and, rather than go through the “great tribulation,” will end their lives. Too bad there is not an earthly law that would convict these date-setters of murder and other crimes when their predictions prove false. Our only consolation is that there is a Judge who will find them guilty and accountable. All we can do for the victims is pray for them now, and be there to console them when/if the prediction does prove false.



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Vivi

posted September 5, 2010 at 10:28 am


Webmiotaur – THere will be some people left behind!!!! Whetther they will be left behind the day after 5/21/11 or some future unknown date, might be the question, but the bible is clear:
Christ is CERTAIN to come again, and…
There Will Be People Left Behind after he has come and gone.
I disagree that the END is about world events. Everything in the bible teaches that God always had a master plan and timetable involved for everthing that happens, including our birth, and our death.
Christ wasn’t born on some random date based on events going on int he world. God/Christ, had already worked out the precise time he wanted Christ to come on the scene.
Same goes about the Jews’ exodus from egypt, and their capitivity in Babaylon, and Paul’s conversion on the road of Damascus. Everything have a carefully purposeful time. And the End will be no different,
I don’t know if 5/21/11 is the date, but I am still surprised that those who disregard the date as having any merit or substance, do so without checking out the bible references that HC has studied to come up to that date. Yes, he could be a false teacher, or he could be right.
There is going to be an end.
Christ will return.
People will be left behind.
Knowledge of that event will increase. The bible tells us so.
The bible also tells us to WATCH. Watch for what? The signs he tells us we will see. If we see those time, what are we supposed to do? Are not those “signs” we have been told by God to watch for supposed to indicate that his return is near???
Do you know what signs we are suppose to watch for?



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Webminotaur

posted September 6, 2010 at 3:42 am


First off, let me correct the dating mentioned in my previous post. My original reference material was destroyed in late 1978, so I was relying on my memory (not all that reliable!). The exact date was October 22, 1844 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment}. Unfortunately, this article did not go into depth on the repercussions within the deluded public – suicides, loss of fortunes, etc. It only covers the reprecussions within the movement itself.
Whether God is working on a timetable, or even if there will be “those left behind,” is a matter of theological debate. All positions reference different scriptures to support them. Only God knows for sure what he will be doing and when. I will not be sidetracked into engaging in an argument that has been going on for over a thousand years. Paul instructs us not to get involved in such meaningless debates, but to concentrate on spreading the Good News that Jesus is our savior and he will return to gather his own.
Do I know what signs we are supposed to watch for? I can only say that I have a fair idea. And yes, these are coming about as predicted. I expect Jesus to return in my life time. That is how we are told to live: as if Jesus would be coming back in the next couple of minutes. Each minute that passes just means we are one minute closer. However, that is a topic for a different discussion.
Campbell, just like Samuel Snow and the Millerites, will survive if his prediction proves false. He may even be better off financially, too. And as was done by all his predessors, he will go back to the “drawing-board” and find some excuse for being wrong.
But, as the original post asks, what about his followers – like Ms Exley? Is Campblell giving them some sort of safety net? Will they just say, “Oh, well. It was worth a try”? Or will they think they were rejected by Jesus and condemned to eternity in Hell? Most will be somewhere in between. Do people like Campbell even think of what will happen to their followers if they “made an error” in their calculations? I doubt it. From what I’ve seen in others, he is so wrapped up in his own self-importance of being able to determine the date that there is no room for compassion for his followers. That “I know I am right, and you have to follow me” attitude just adds fuel to the anti-Christian groups.
I will end this post like I ended my last one. The only thing those of who do not agree with Campbell can do is pray for his followers and be there for them when/if Campbell is proven wrong. If you know people who are following Campbell’s prediction, then be with them on May 23, 2011. If Campbell is right, you should also depart. If he is wrong, then you will be there to help his followers return to normality.



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Vivi

posted September 7, 2010 at 6:25 pm


Again, I don’t know if 5/21/2011 is “the end date”, but I am doing what I think all believers in the bible would do when met with some of these scriptures. I am sure you have heard of Matthew Henry, the renowned 17th century bible teacher, highly regarded in his bible knowledge, who wrote a verse-by-verse commentary of the endtire bible–old and new testament. This is what he had to say about Daniel 12:4
Daniel 12:4 commentary written by Matthew Henry in
Daniel must now shut up the words and seal the book because the time would be long ere these things would be accomplished: and it was some comfort that the Jewish nation, though, in the infancy of their return from Babylon, while they were few and weak, they met with obstructions in their work, were not persecuted for their religion till a long time after, when they had grown to some strength and maturity.
He must seal the book because it would not be understood, and therefore would not be regarded, till the things contained in it were accomplished; but he must keep it safely, as a treasure of great value, laid up for the ages to come, to whom it would be of great service; for many shall then run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Then this hidden treasure shall be opened, and many shall search into it, and dig for the knowledge of it, as for silver.
They shall run to and fro, to enquire out copies of it, shall collate them, and see that they be true and authentic. They shall read it over and over, shall meditate upon it, and run it over in their minds; discurrent—they shall discourse of it, and talk it over among themselves, and compare notes about it, if by any means they may sift out the meaning of it; and thus knowledge shall be increased.
By consulting this prophecy on this occasion they shall be led to search other scriptures, which shall contribute much to their advancement in useful knowledge; for then shall we know if we follow on to know the Lord, Hos. 6:3. Those that would have their knowledge increased must take pains, must not sit still in slothfulness and bare wishes but run to and fro, must make use of all the means of knowledge and improve all opportunities of getting their mistakes rectified, their doubts resolved, and their acquaintance with the things of God improved, to know more and to know better what they do know.
And let us here see reason to hope that, 1. Those things of God which are now dark and obscure will hereafter be made clear, and easy to be understood. Truth is the daughter of time. Scripture prophecies will be expounded by the accomplishment of them; therefore they are given, and for that explication they are reserved.
Therefore they are told us before, that, when they do come to pass, we may believe. 2. Those things of God which are despised and neglected, and thrown by as useless, shall be brought into reputation, shall be found to be of great service, and be brought into request; for divine revelation, however slighted for a time, shall be magnified and made honourable, and, above all, in the judgment of the great day, when the books shall be opened, and that book among the rest.
In closing, my question to all is, based on Daniel 12, and especially verse 4, 8-12. What do you think thses verses are saying?



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Nanlisa

posted October 10, 2010 at 1:57 pm


Harold Camping is nothing but a liar and a false prophet. He can crunch all the numbers he wants to. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the world is going to end on May 21, 2011; nor any other day. Jesus made it clear to the Apostles that no one knows the day nor the hour of His return; nor do the angels in Heaven. Only God the Father knows that; not Harold Camping.
Secondly, who does Harold Camping think he is? Telling Christians to leave their churches because they’re now under the control of Satan and to listen to Family Radio because it has “the truth”. Or that the church age ended in 1988, denying the Deity of Christ, and so forth. Just because he believes it, we don’t have to. This is America and we have the right to worship as we see fit. We also have the right to speak up about what is wrong and that’s the bottom line.
Yes Mr. Camping. The world is going to come to an end. Jesus is going to come again and we will all be judged. But when, we don’t know.
He needs to stop these scare tactics about the Judgment Day on May 21, 2011 and all this other nonsense. He needs to tell people about the love of God; the love of Jesus. After all, Jesus came to earth to save us, to die on the cross, and rose again for our sins and to give us all eternal life in Heaven. Even St. Paul says that whosoever shall call upon the nane of the Lord, thou shall be saved. God wants everybody to be saved; not just a few.
Pray that Harold Camping will stop this date-setting nonsense and be true to the Scriptures; especially when it comes to the end of the world that the Judgment Day. May 21, 2011 will come and go like any other day. He was wrong about 1994, and he is wrong now. Oh by the way, since Harold Camping is 89, will he himself be alive by May 21 of next year. He could be dead before then. Who knows? But he needs to stop telling these lies and false doctrines once and for all.



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Patricia

posted October 24, 2010 at 8:14 pm


A few months ago, after not doing so for many years, I began listening to Harold Camping again. I had, in the past, enjoyed listening to Family Radio and the various ministers who spoke, including Open Forum. However, to my surprise, Family Radio had changed. I was surprised to learn that Mr. Camping is now teaching the churches are under the leadership of Satan. That alone sparked my interest since I had believed Harold Camping to be a Biblical Scholar. Not ready to accept such a teaching, but curiously wondering if I had missed something in reading my own Bible, I continued to listen on a regular basis. I am beyond shocked…I feel angry. Harold Camping’s arrogance masquerades as humility while causing honest hearted people to stumble. I am saddened that so many people are being mislead by Harold Camping.
Harold Camping is a false prophet. Not because I say so, but because God does! Deuteronomy 18: 21 and 22 tells us how to know who is a false prophet. Mr. Camping has set other dates that didn’t come true. According to the Lord, he’s a “false prophet.” Mr. Camping is a master at twisting the scriptures, adding things that aren’t there, and presumptuously declaring things our Lord didn’t say, certainly not in the context Harold Camping suggests. For example, the text that most people ask about recorded in Matthew 24: 36 – 44 and other related verses, Mr. Camping now says we are not to accept as written. What gall!!! Jesus, the Son of God, the Word of God….knows exactly how to say what He means. Why is Camping adding to it? Why does he say that’s what Jesus meant then, but now the word is clearer “because God is revealing more?” In other words, it wasn’t understood until Harold Camping was enlightened by God and now, he explains it to us. Again, what gall!!! Clearly, the apostles understood what Jesus was saying to them, but according to Harold Camping, they couldn’t have. Only now, since he (Harold Camping) has revealed it can these verses be understood. Even the scriptural text Camping uses to “explain” his rendition of these verses don’t say what he claims.He has managed to corrupt the words of Paul by teaching that 1 Thessalonians 5: 1-5 refer to the “destruction of the people in the churches.” Based on what? Mr. Camping says the churches are declaring “Peace and Safety” (are they really or is that a straw man set up by Camping?) and are therefore, those who will suffer damnation. THAT IS NOT WHAT PAUL SAYS IN THAT TEXT. Mr. Camping injected that with no scriptural cause to do so. Paul was talking to those of his day. They understood what he meant. Mr. Camping is guilty of adding to the Word of God, or at the very least, making assumptions that he has no scriptural right to make.
Jesus said his coming would be “as a thief.” It is not necessary to KNOW the day or night the thief is coming…..not if one is ALWAYS on the watch, and that is the whole point of those verses. It’s because we won’t know the exact time of Christ’s return that He tells us to “watch.” Jesus had already told his apostles and followers they would not know the “day or the hour” of his coming and Paul was reminding them of that. The same command applies to us today. To be watchful, one would be paying attention to the times we live in. We would be studying the scriptures to make sure we’re not overtaken by a false prophet. We would not get carried away with the cares of the world and neglect our opportunities to learn more about God’s desire for us. We would prayerfully study the scriptures and not be carried away “by every wind” but instead leaning on the Spirit of God to teach us just as John warns us in 1 John 2: 26, 27. We would “Seek the Kingdom and it’s righteousness” as Jesus said we should do. However, if you believe Mr. Camping, it isn’t necessary to watch or to seek God’s Kingdom. Why be watchful? Harold Camping has already told you(without a shadow of a doubt, he says)the Lord is coming May 21, 2011. In fact, Camping is currently warning the whole world. It is his “ministry” to let the world know that Judgement Day is May 21, 2011. Really? So that means Jesus isn’t coming “as a thief”…..even to the world of unbelievers because Camping is watching for them, giving them a date. So why watch? Mr. Camping is on the job! He’s counting down the days for you. Why did Jesus bother to tell us to “watch?” Watch for what? Camping has already told us the day? Hmmmm……is God confused? I think not. So, who will you believe and obey? God or Harold Camping?
My friends, beware of false prophets.



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Vvmrr

posted November 3, 2010 at 3:09 pm


Putting aside whether H. Camping has the right date or not…,and putting aside whether or not HC is a false prophet or not….
Does the bible, God’s word as it is written in these verses, say that there will come a time, right before Christ’s return, when:
1 – There will be a falling away of believers (2 Thess. 2:3)
2 – The Great “Apostasy” (1 Timothy 4:1).
Rather than focus on dates, 2011, etc…, can there be an understanding from these scriptures, as they are written, that they speak to the overall spiritual condition of man right before the 2nd coming?
To me, its not so important if the day is 2011 or not — but have any of us ever been taught that the church overall, or the corporate spiritual institution would ultmately reach a state of apostasy? And when I read 2 Thess 2:1-12, I understand these scriptures as gving a step-by-steps scenario of what the state of the church will be right before Christ returns — whether that is next year or 20 years or 2000 years from now.
Does anyone else see the clear chain of events that take place in these verses?



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Chris

posted November 4, 2010 at 2:39 am


When God told Noah what to do, he did it and everything happened. When God told Moses about every plague, eveything happened. When “God” revealed 1994 to Harold Camping, nothing happened.



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Vvmrr

posted November 5, 2010 at 9:32 pm


There really isn’t much value or help in bashing Harold Camping. If you just want to slam him, then fine, but the purpose for my 2 questions about 2 Thess. 2:1-12 and 1 Tim. 4:1 was to get insight into their meaning because they specifically address what is supposed to take place right before Christ’s return.
I don’t know if HC is correct about 2011 or not, and frankly, I have stopped trying to figure out his dates, preferring to put my focus on God’s word, while praying that he may open my own understanding of his word.
If you have insight about these verses that you want to share, good, share away.



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Kevin

posted November 12, 2010 at 6:25 pm


I think his teachings are different than anything I have ever heard. I have been a Catholic my whole life until I started listening to family Radio. I belive he has got alot right most churches do not follow or read everything in the bible. No church has gone through every scripture as carefully as Harold Camping. When the God says do not make any images of anything in Heaven above..Why are Catholics bowing down to statues. Should we pray to Mary instead of Christ? Mary gave Christ a Human nature but is she really the Mother of God? To be a Mother to god would be she came before god. Wrong!! God told Daniel seal these things up in a book until the end times! I believe that relates to the Seals being opened in revelation. The book has always been the bible but the info was not available until the end times. I belive in my heart he actually may be right…Listen very carefully and may God have mercy on us all. AMEN



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Chris

posted November 13, 2010 at 9:17 pm


Vvmrr- I appreciate your questions regarding the Church going apostate. I believe (like Camping) they have. The thing that prompted my responding to you on Harold Camping is that he has been represented as one who has been “enlightened” to the hidden truths of the final seal. I must make a correction to my earlier response in fairness to H.C. In “1994?” The entire suggestion is that of a possibility. As I understand he mentions in that book that another possible date would be May 21, 2011 (haven’t read it to verify this). To his credit he does not claim to be a prophet, but claims that anyone (believers)can now see the truth which had until recently been sealed up by God. My observation is this: When in the history of the scriptures (The ones cited by H.C. to mean we can and will KNOW the date)was there the case of a revealing that provided confusion in truth. My premis is that if this revelation were so clear as promised by God, “1994?” would not have been a book.
Jesus Christ may return on May 21, 2011. Harold Camping COULD be right. I have found noone to accurately repudiate his findings.This is mainly because noone can agree what the Bible teaches. And everyone pulls lines out of scriptures to make both sides of every case. James White even tries to argue with people (especially Churches he doesn’t like) and makes an idiot of himself quite regulary by proving my point that noone agrees what the Bible actually teaches. However Jesus Christ May return at some other time and there will be many including H.C. who are so caught up calculation they forget their first order of salvation which is to Love and Serve. H.C. believes what he teaches and to him he is Loving and Serving. He is also teaching the less popular subjects of the Bible. For that I applaud him. But don’t be surprized if you discover that his Biblical Calender is wrong. Accept the message that time is short but understand that you can make almost any case using the scriptures as your proof..



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Chris

posted November 13, 2010 at 9:30 pm


Many chuches have gone apostate and have “fallen away” over the centuries. This being a sign of the end? It’s been happening since the Resurection. If a great falling away and a church contriolled by Satan is going to happen just before Christ comes back, Depending upon which church you belong to it should already have occurred. However I would say that the Prosperity Gospel of the last 20-30 years is quite impressive as an example of Apostacy. It is downright Idolatry in my view. Perhaps these coupled with the Gay Pride agenda is something to pay close attention to. Any thoughts anyone?



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vvmorr

posted November 14, 2010 at 7:41 pm


I appreciate the insight given by the recent posts. Chris, you are clever to have picked up on the uneveness of HC’s teachings that the bible indeed says….”we can know the date of the end”, and if that was the case, then why was he unclear about 1994??? [ This would be a good open forum question ].
I too will give HC some wiggle room since he mentioned 2011 as a possibility in his 1994 book. But I wrestle with HC as being the only bible teacher in the world who teaches the end of the church age. It relegates anyone who wants to consider the idea that we should leave the church to have no one to corroborate this teaching — since you are no longer in a church and have access to no ministers or bible teachers. The few deacons or knowlegeable bible teachers I have asked about this naturally don’t agree since they are still in the church! When you ask anyone in the church about 2 Thess. 2, essentially you are telling that person they are worshipping satn! Recoil. Recoil. They shut down and think you are a quack.
Therefore, the only people you can ask about this, are other Camping listeners or people on the internet — thus my inquiry here.
HC’s church age teaching has isolated many people, and the only source to learn more about this data is HC’s books, which just seems very biased and one sided. If only there could be someone outside of HC who could stand and say, “Yes, there will come a time when churches by and large will go apostate, and this is a precursor to Christ’s return..”
Is God asking us to trust this message that is so restricted to one man’s voice? Has God ever asked his people to walk this path alone without teachers to guide us? Open Forum is extremely limited as a teaching format, and I often find Mr. Camping abrupt with alternate views.
Are we only to have this 1 mouthpiece in the whole world to discuss the greatest event since the creation of the world?
Yet, we do have the Master himself to ask for guidance, and to ask that our understanding be opened. Could that be the real test here in the Camping only dynamic? Could the test be whether we are willing to step out of the corporate body with its soft christian message, and really make it a time of me and God? Is that it? I’ll tell you this, it most certainly requires a great deal of faith, and I am doing a LOT more studying of the bible on my own.
Re: Apostasy, and satn ruling in the church, I do not think this is a “1-satn in 1-church” thing. I think the teaching in 2 Thess. 2 is saying satn ruling int he church will be the general state of God’s house in total — a global occurrence. Otherwise, we would all be pointing fingers at this church or that church as being the one that is apostate. Whereas, a general apostasy reflects our overall spiritual state, (the gradual deterioration) that ultimately led to a state of christian apathy that culminates in overall apostasy, (christian-lite is rampant!).
I think of the apostasy as another “step” in God’s master plan that leads up to “THE END”, just like the killing of the 2 witnesses, and the seal being broken, and knowlege increasing, another step would be churches in total will be apostate and satn would rule in them.



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Chris

posted November 18, 2010 at 4:52 am


VVmorr- Thankyou for your thoughts and patience. I think you have a very deep understanding of the state of the Church/Churches in the days of the end. I admire your search as I am on one of my own which is remarkably similar. I think the most confusing portion of this seeking out is “why is it (for me) happening outside of the church? Is it me, or is it them? And you are so honest in your fears and speculation of the “test”. I live it daily. But I can say this: Jesus gets from me….me, with all my fears and all my doubts and all my hopes. I have felt isolated but from years of church hopping and doctrine diving the most important thing I think I’ve learned is that for whatever reason, my spirit must separate from the Church. Is that scary? It can be. Then yes I happened across this H.C. and at first it seemed to be an explanation.
After almost a year of considering the matter of Camping, I realized (like you) that there is only THIS ministry of his which is gaining this information. If you would ask a Camping follower, They might say that God always starts with one person (Noah, Moses, Jonah etc.) which can even be scarier. However, if you ask H.C himself he would claim “others have this knowlege” and have worked with him. Be that as it may the statement is still one that benefits him. And again I don’t see an authentic revealing resulting in a confused calculation as in “1994?”.
I can tell you that Christian Apologetics becomes a sad joke when trying to defend a doctrine from scripture. I spent a couple years studying the splintered Doctrines of Christianity as held by the churches throughout the ages and I quickly discovered that they (And we) all have Heresy. I believe that is why I have been led away from the Church. It was doing serious damage to my walk with God and became a stumbling block. It’s funny because to the Church it would probably signify that I am not saved or not a Christian. Well you know what? by their defanition I can’t be a Christain, and you know what else? by each of the 13000 different denominations of “Christianity” defining their own brand, The only true Christians are Their particular brand apart from the others. Honestly it’s become a waste of time. God wants YOU, he doesn’t need you to pick a “card”! You are human, you’d get it wrong anyway . I think your search has brought you to a good place if it is God, you, and your prayers. Thats where he’ll take you, That is where he takes his people, and That is “watching” I think. I’ll look at 2 Thes 2 and tell you my thoughts if your still around but they will be My own thoughts.



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Your NamePaul wesnofske

posted November 19, 2010 at 8:29 pm


I am wondering if Harold Campinghas any tv contracts valid after the rapture?



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Chris

posted November 20, 2010 at 2:34 am


If he doesn’t, would you believe him?



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Meshuga Mikey

posted December 2, 2010 at 9:09 pm


my tirbute to harold camping
http://i52.tinypic.com/23h6lmv.png



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Mark

posted December 28, 2010 at 12:44 am


My biggest trouble with the date-setters, Camping included, is the terrible damage they have done to the credibility of the Gospel in the eyes of those who otherwise might be persuaded to believe. I wonder how many intelligent, open-minded seekers have been turned away by the number of obviously wrong end-time prophets over the last two milennia.
Yes, Jesus is coming back. But every time one of his “believers” sets a date for his return, the credibility of that claim is diminished. How can you love Jesus and at the same time make it harder for reasoning people to believe in him?



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camper trailers

posted January 3, 2011 at 2:13 am


The guy over at Cerulean Sanctum has related that during the Weisenhaunt Rapture Scare of 1988, most of the student body at a nearby Bible College got married en masse to beat Weisenhaunt’s date. Twenty years later, he wonders how many of those couples are still married.
—————–
Thomas



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Webminotaur

posted January 3, 2011 at 4:38 am


I like to see that Mark is somewhat bringing this blog chain back to Jason’s question: what about the poor people who give up everything because of these date-setters? Mark expands that to include the damage to the whole Christian movement. I do not have an answer. May be that no one has. That may be why the question keeps getting side-stepped.
But as for date setting, I like the trend taken by vvmorr and Chris. A while back I was asked if I knew the “signs of the times.” I said that I had an idea what they were, but I did not want to comment on them then. I have often heard people use the phrase “sign of the times,” but when asked what they were, there was never any comment. Well, here’s my take on it.
I do not believe anyone can predict the date of Christ’s return. As Jesus said, no one knows except the Father. Even Jesus does not know the date (check it out). There are enough other references to indicate that the return of Christ is not based on a specific date (and whose calendar would be used, anyway?). Rather it is based on a state or condition of the earth in total. And Only the Father, the one who set them, knows for sure what the conditions are. But he does give us some clues, or “signs” for which to watch.
Jesus mentioned wars and threats of war, earthquakes, famine, etc. As vvmorr quoted, there will also be a great “falling away.” As Chris brought out about the churches, these things have always been with us. So how are we to know when these ‘”signs” are genuine? The “end time” is often compared to a woman in travail, or these woes as being the beginning of birth pangs. As one pastor explained it, when a woman approaches the time of birth, the pangs begin. At first they are mild and infrequent. But as the time of birth approaches, they increase in severity and frequency.
Then look at the churches. Nearly all denominations are bemoaning decreasing membership and attendance. What are the churches teaching? Are they uplifting Christ so he can draw all men near? Or are they teaching the doctrines of men that tickle one’s ears – maintaining a form of religion but denying the power thereof. Many pastors are quicker to quote Calvin, Luther, and other leaders than they are Jesus. I’m still looking for the version of the Bible so many people seem to have. The one that says if someone is ill to call for the elders so they can pray that God will give wisdom to the doctors and guide the doctors’ hands during surgery. The one that has Jesus saying that the Father knows you have need for food, drink and clothing, so He’ll send you a pre-approved credit card. And somewhere in this version there is an expiration date to the miracles Jesus said all who believe would be able to perform. I have not found this version yet, but then I’ve only read about a dozen. I know it must exist, as there are so many churches that practice and advocate these things. Unless this is just further evidence of what vvmorr references.
As we look around we can see a great increase in both the number and severity of wars, earthquakes, etc. Check the records. See how in the past few years the number of earthquakes has nearly doubled, and the average intensity has increased. Look up the number of hurricanes and typhoons. See how they have increased both in number and severity. Then there’s the increase in floods, landslides, and other natural disasters. There’s not a day goes by that we do not see, hear, or read about bombings around the world. Famine and poverty continue to be on the rise. Murder, rape, robberies, people killing their children, and other such crimes are at an all-time high.
Does that mean we are at the end? Not necessarily. We are told that as we see these things to know that the end is near. We are told to watch and pray, to always be ready, because we do not know the hour. Jesus mentions two other disasters: the great flood and Sodom & Gomorrah. In both cases people were going about their business-as-usual routines when the end came upon them. As Jesus said, so it would be in the lasts days. It will come as a “thief in the night.” He also said that if we knew when the thief was coming, we would be ready for him – just as if we knew when Jesus would return, we would be ready. But as it is, we do not know for sure, so we must always be alert so He does not catch us unprepared. All I know for sure is that we are about 1,980 years closer now than the first saints were – and they expected him any day.



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Your Name

posted January 5, 2011 at 2:58 pm


Jesus is coming back on May 21, 2011 – great! Let’s party until May 20th, then make things right with God so we’ll be ready on the 21st. If Jesus doesn’t come then, we have a back-up date. We can party until Oct 20, 2011. If Jesus doesn’t make it then, we’ll just have to cool it until he reveals the next date to someone. But even so, we’ll have 5 or 10 months of serious partying.



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Lizzi

posted January 11, 2011 at 8:00 pm


The role of Bible teachers is to teach what they have learned; and teachers and students learn and grow as each day passes. Each human being today possesses knowledge that each did not possess 10 years ago, or 5 years ago, or 1 year ago, etc. We are all learning and growing every day. If a Bible teacher teaches something and it turns out that he was mistaken, this does not mean that he is a “false teacher”. Suppose Mr. Camping had decided not to share what he had learned about 1994 during that time because he was not 100% sure; and suppose Christ had returned in 1994? The people left behind would have wished that someone would have warned them. Just because Christ didn’t return in 1994 as Mr. Camping believed during that time doesn’t mean he’s a false teacher. It only means he didn’t understand all the pieces of the Bible puzzle during that time. He’s still a very good teacher. And ever since 1994, there has been more opportunity to spread the gospel to more people all over the world, which is the most important aspect of this whole thing. If some people “lost their faith” because Christ did not return in 1994, then it reveals that they were not true believers of Jesus Christ. True believers continued to follow Jesus Christ and forgave Mr. Camping’s biblical misunderstandings of that point in time. Mr. Camping is a true servant of God who tries his best to study, learn, and teach to the best of his ability. There are many people who are trying to assassinate Mr. Camping’s character, which is a very ungodly thing to do. A true Christian would never, ever engage in character assassination.
Side Note: I keep hearing and reading comments from unbelievers saying “if you believe the end is near, stop paying your bills” or “stop paying your mortgage” or “bequeath all your possessions” or “what will you do on May 22, 2011 if Christ did not return.” True believers would never stop paying their bills; that would be stealing, which is a sin. Just because someone is utterly convinced that the end is near does not mean that they should bequeath all their possessions; that’s silly. If it turns out that Christ does not return on May 21, 2011 due to a possible missing piece of the Bible puzzle (which I doubt very much), true believers will continue believing in Christ and will continue spreading the gospel because Christ will eventually return. And Harold Camping will continue studying scriptures to try to get more clues from the Bible. He is still a Christian and a good teacher, and true believers will not reject him. True believers are not “Campingites” or “followers of Harold Camping” or “slaves of Harold Camping” or “brainwashed”. True believers are followers of Jesus Christ and followers of Christ’s Words, which are God’s Words. And true believers understand that no human being is perfect, and everyone makes mistakes, and the person who makes mistakes should not be rejected. True believers don’t just blindly follow any teacher. True believers check out the Scriptures for themselves to verify interpretations, and if there are things in the Bible that they don’t understand, it doesn’t mean they are in danger of losing their salvation. Just because Mr. Camping has misunderstood some scriptures, it doesn’t mean he is a false teacher who is causing true believers to go astray. That’s not possible. True believers can never lose their salvation. In my opinion, Mr. Camping is the best Bible teacher ever.



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Nathaniel Torres

posted January 21, 2011 at 2:16 pm


All we have to do is keep on doing what Jesus commanded us to do. Love each other. Keep gathering. Be at peace with our neighbors. Love our enemies. Seek peace and pursue it. Trust in God. Keep the sayings of Jesus. Stay away from false prophets. Let not our hearts be troubled. These things must come to pass. Know that there will come a time when those who kill you will think they are doing God a service. Now this last one is difficult and dark, but unavoidable. As men like Camping grow more influential and powerful, they will take control of police forces and militia. They will thrive in governments. Our job is not to stop them. “Let he who is filthy be filthy, and he who is holy be holy.” Our job is to expose them as false prophets. This is not difficult. Like fictitious vampires will hiss at a hollywood cross, false prophets will hiss at the mention of the cross of Jesus and salvation by his blood. Check youtube and see how campings followers are hissing so well at the gospel of Jesus, his death, burial, and resurrection. This message was the first thing Paul preached wherever he went. It is the very message the Campingites will not preach and hate with a passion. The spirit of the anti-christ is definitely inside of Harold Camping’s Circle of Evil. And he has raised himself above God himself by saying he knows something God said he would never reveal to anyone, not even his som until the say itself came, the day of the return of Jesus. I don’t have to be a prophet to know this mess is not going to end well. They think they are going to win, but the world does not understand that in order to win you must lose. And that he who finds his life will lose it. And what does it profit a man if he gain the whole world but lose his soul. Camping is headed for the lake of fire. And the lake of fire is headed for him.



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Webminotaur

posted January 29, 2011 at 7:05 pm


I agree with Lizzi here. Camping (and other date-setters) are not false prophets. At the worst, they are in error. There is a very big difference.
The Bible makes it clear that false prophets are those people who deny specific aspects of Jesus; his physical (human) nature, his divinity, his resurrection, etc. Other false prophets teach doctrines they know are not true for their own personal gain: but only God, who knows the intents of a perons’s heart, can identify them.
The Bible also warns us about error; that is following some tradition that is not consistent with, but does not contradict, what the Bible says. Some examples are: predestination, once-saved-always-saved, the form (or even need) of water baptism, laying on of hands, speaking in tongues, and healing. [Note: every 2-point argument has three valid options: A is right and B is wrong, A is wrong and B is right, and both are wrong (both being right is generally a contradiction).]
If one studies effective communications, logic, human relations, various forms of theology, as well as many other areas of study, one point is consistently made clear. If you disagree with someone, do not attack the person, but the basis of what the person advocates. Thus we are not to attack Camping or anyone else that holds a view different from our own. If we disagree, we need to learn the basis of the proposition, then, if we still disagree, present other evidence to refute the claim. It is not always possible to get everyone to agree on a point, so we must look more at what we do agree on and build from that. This is not only consistent with Christian theology, but nearly all secular training as well.
If we are living according to scripture, then we will be “in” the world, but not “of” the world. We are told not to worry about meeting our basic needs, but to rely on our Father. That does not mean we should get rid of everything, quit our jobs, or take other such action. We are told it is OK to own things, but to live as if we did not own them. We need to learn to live each day as if it were our last, but take precautions in case it is not. This idea is not alien; it is the same basis for insurance. Do we have life insurance because we think we will die today or tomorrow? Do we have car insurance because we expect to have an accident? Or any other type of insurance because we expect something bad to happen? No. We have insurance “in case” something does happen. And that is how we are to live – as if Jesus may NOT come today.
In a previous post I mentioned the harm to Christianity that is caused by date-setters. But then I read something Paul wrote. He was talking about those who were preaching Jesus Christ for their own personal profit (yes, they were around long before radio and TV). He disapproved of these people, but did not condemn them. His attitude was, whether for personal gain or love of Christ, Jesus was being preached. That is one thing that can be said about date-setters – they do reach some people who otherwise would not hear about Jesus Christ. And that is a good thing. As Lizzi pointed out, those who “fall away” after the due date were not really commited, and probably would have been left, anyway. The Bible says there will be some who will claim to know Jesus, but he will deny knowing them. Those are the people who do not really believe, but accept Christianity just in case. Only God knows for sure who these people are, so we are not to try to identify them. We are to love everybody, and let God sort them out.



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vvmorr

posted February 11, 2011 at 3:27 pm


IS GOD TESTING US THROUGH HOW HE WROTE THE BIBLE?
H.Camping has been teaching that Matt.24:36 is a trap, and that God wrote it in a way as to “TEST” believers as we enter into End Days.
I’m sure a heavy sigh and slumped shoulders was my reaction when I heard him say this. Because as a believer, I look at the bible as “HOLY” and it feels sacriligious to think that it would have “TRAPS” in it!
Matt.24:36 is the verse that says, “No one knows the day or the hour — not event the Son, only the Father.”
Camping teaches (via my understanding) that the “son” in this scripture is the son of perdition, i.e., satn, and not the Son of God, Jesus Christ.
Camping teaches that Jesus and God are one and most certainly know all things — especially since Jesus was here from the beginning of the fdn. of the world.
Camping teaches, (via my understanding), that the traditional understanding that “not even the SON knows the date”, is a trap to prevent false believers from delving too deeply into bible scriptures that would teach them that “we can indeed know the end date”, once the seal is broken and knowledge increases, etc….(all the other end date connections HC makes).
Now that I am past the inital negative reaction to this info, I am in the process of weighing this idea of Matt. 24:36 being a trap, while praying and asking God for wisdom, understanding and guidance in this.
I would like to get input, insight from anyone here about their thoughts abouy the idea of God testing us through certain scripture in the bible.
Please consider fully, that I believe the bible does clearly demonstrate how God tested many people in the occurences we read about in the bible (Adam & Eve and the tree of knowledge; Abraham almost sacrificing his beloved son Isaac was surely a test; there are other occurences/stories of those who were tested in the bible — include Jesus himself (tested 40 days, 40 nights by satn.) So, the question is not so much DID God test people, but could HE be testing us still by the scriptures like Matt. 24:36???? Would God test us in his word?
One thing that is clear to me in my own bible studies of late is that God is serious about how serious we take Him. He wants a devoted, loving, committed soul for his children. I think God is not interested in the luke-warm commited chirstian. nada.
Proof of your geniune, sincere interest in God is a genuine sincere interest in His word — which can only be gained by regular reading and studying it.
You can’t really know God by simply claiming to be a Christian, but not really having a knowledge of who he is by a sincere hunger and thirst for the word.
Therefore, could the “test” of Matt. 24:36 be that those who diligently study God’s word could “net some knowledge” that only casual readers would not and could not possibly get — and thereby, have an insight that would not be a trap to them — but would be a trap to others?



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God's Child

posted April 3, 2011 at 10:15 pm


I find this post interesting. As someone who’s mother has forsaken all that she knows regarding the Gospel and has adopted the teachings of Harold Camping I know first hand the state of Exley as he described. My mother though she believes the date, has lost all hope because she too wanted to experience things in life that she believes will not come to pass as May 21st is fastly approaching.
Do I believe that May 21st is the rapture date? Not at all. Do I believe that we are close to the Lord’s coming? Yes I do. I believe that just like the scripture tells us, we must be ever ready. Prepared at any and all times for the Lord’s coming and in the meantime we must study the word of God, not pulling from it our own interpretations but allowing the Holy Spirit to give us wisdom and understanding for every scripture. The bible plainly say, that we are not to lean on our own understanding but in all our ways to acknowledge him and he will direct our paths. I believe that scripture covers a plethora of scenarios we’ll experience in life. Decisions on whether to relocate, buy a house, who to marry, how to make understanding of a scripture. God wants to be involved in every aspect of our lives so that he can provide a wonderful life for us and help us on the path of an eternal life with him.
I must say that with the May 21st prediction and all of the information Harold uses to support his beliefs, itcan be convincing however we should always fix our eyes on the Lord. The scripture says that there is a way that seems right to man but in the end it leads to death. (Provers 14:12)Let us all trust in God and seek HIM for knowledge of the scripture and I believe we will all have our answer regarding the truth of May 21st, 2011.



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Nanlisa

posted April 10, 2011 at 4:58 pm


So far, here’s what’s going to happen on May 21, 2011. For sports fans, there’s major league baseball, the NBA and NHL playoffs, and the Preakness. For movie fans, the new Pirates of the Caribbean movie will be out. Three men will be ordained as priests in the Philadelphia Archdiocese on that day. There may be college graduations and perhaps a lot of people will be getting married on that day. If the weather’s nice, I’ll go to my Weight Watchers meeting, do whatever else I have to do, go to Saturday night Mass to fulfill my Sunday obligation (after all I’m a proud and practicing Roman Catholic), and then take it easy.

But one thing’s for sure: the rapture of the church is not going to take place on that day. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the world’s going to come to an end, that Jesus is going to return, and that the judgment will take place on May 21, 2011; nor on any other date. Jesus said that no one knows the day nor the hour of His return; nor do the angels of Heaven, nor even the Son. Only God the Father knows that. And yes, Mr. Camping, Jesus is the Son of the Living God and God the Son. How dare you deny that Jesus is not the Son of God?

On May 22, is Harold Camping going to ask himself, “What did I do wrong? I know that I didn’t miscalculate.” Is he going to go back to the Bible again and start setting another falsedate for the return of Christ? What about his followers who have been wasting Family Radio’s precious time and money by going around the country in caravans, putting up billboards, and passing out tracts proclaiming this false message? They are going to wake up and realize that they’ve been duped by this man. Harold Camping was wrong about September 6, 1994, and he’s wrong about May 21, 2011? Just like September 6, 1994, May 21, 2011 will come and go just like any other day.

Let’s keep praying that Harold Camping and his followers will be true to the Scriptures. Let your pastor and fellow church members know. (I’ve already talked to my own pastor and couple of other priests as well.) Contact the media. Get the word out! Harold Camping and his false doctrines and lies must be stopped and stopped right now!

As for May 21, 2011, go ahead with whatever you had planned to do. It’s not going to happen.



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Nanlisa

posted April 10, 2011 at 5:04 pm


May 21 is a Saturday, and May 22 is a Sunday. So on Sunday, May 22, the churches will probably be filled with Harold Camping’s followers begging for God’s forgiveness for spreading these false doctrines and lies.



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Nanlisa

posted April 10, 2011 at 5:07 pm


Oops! My fault. I meant to ask how Harold Camping can deny that Jesus is the Son of God and God the Son. JESUS IS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD AND GOD THE SON; THE SECOND PERSON OF THE HOLY TRINITY.



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Rudy Hicks

posted May 10, 2011 at 6:38 pm


What Camping is doing is spooking a lot of his
elderly contributors to fork over larger contributions,
as they prepare to depart. That guy darn well knows
what he is doing, and if anyone looked at his financial
books from the last spate of this, you’d probably see
a spike in income. As for him being correct, there
may some freak disaster on that date and rapture or
no, he’ll be hailed as a visionary.

According to O. T. scriptures, he is to be stoned as
a false prophet. I suspect you could bank on 5 21 not
being the date. The likelyhood God would honor a
prognosticator like Camping in this seems pretty small



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triggerfish

posted May 12, 2011 at 12:08 am


I do respect Mr. Camping for his passion and study for these many years. I do disagree with him on this critical point. He views the Holy Word of God in an allegorical manner and I in a literal sense.
The reason for my view is this; God created us and knows best how to communicate with us. Most of the Bible is plain, simple and easily understood, some of course is difficult, Ezekiel and Revelation to name two.
The love and mercy of our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ our one and only Savivor is beyond our imagination. While it is true that many may perish and few are saved it is not because of a complex, mathematical, coded message hidden from the masses, it is because of mankinds arrogance, ego and pride. We are a stiff necked people who think we are the smartest beings on this planet. We are but fools and lustful animals most of the time. The mercy and grace of Jesus Christ is the only way to enter Heaven. To be humble, contrite in our hearts, reverant and in awe of God are the attributes that our Father loves; arrogance He does not like. Be honest, sincere and confess your sins before Jesus Christ and you will be forgiven by His wonderful grace.
The only way to convince Mr. Camping he is wrong is to wait until May 22nd. On that day I pray that he and his followers will come to a real understanding of the Truth. We must not condemn them or be harsh, but be forgiving and loving towards them. In a gentle way help them understand the true Gospel and way to Salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord and only Savior.
Sadly it will take a very trauamtic event to shock them back to Truth. Please, be kind and loving towards them as Jesus is towards us, all sinners.
May the peace, grace, wisdom and love of Jesus Christ be with us all.



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Maria Van

posted May 16, 2011 at 12:42 am


Another interesting perspective from a new group that has entered the billboard wars in Camping’s/Family Radio’s back yard of Oakland, CA. They are disputing Camping’s claims saying “Jesus is already here.” Here’s the billboard photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62779138@N08/5708063636



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triggerfish

posted May 22, 2011 at 2:38 am


It looks like another prediction has come and gone. Although there is still 30 minutes here in California it is May 22nd in other parts of the world.
I pray that Mr. Camping and his followers will continue to read the Bible, pray and maybe look at the Bible from a literal, common sense perspective. It works well for me.
Please do not make fun of, poke at or be crule or mean to them, it only shows what is in your heart.
I ask that we be kind and forgiving of them. Try to help them understand, if they are willing to listen.
No one has all the answers, but if we respect each other, open or hearts and minds, maybe we can all come to a better understanding of the Holy Bible and God’s will for us.
May the peace, wisdom and grace of Jesus Christ be with us all. Maranatha. Come soon Lord Jesus, please come soon.



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Rich

posted May 25, 2011 at 10:15 am


==================

Instead of pastors criticizing Harold Camping, pastors and theologians could make a serious attempt to meet with Camping and practice:

Proverbs 28:23 He who rebukes a man will in the end gain more favor than he who has a flattering tongue.

(those who have left Family Radio have reported how Camping surrounds himself with “flattering tontues” in agreement with his teachingt and removes those who may “rebuke” his mistakes)

If Camping refuses to listen to anyone else, then we can agree:
Psalm 36:2 For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin.

==================



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